LEGENDS: Sebastian Vettel’s World Champion wisdom

34:20He said that you send him text messages when he needs them most. And I'm quoting him. He says, I really love Seb. Yeah. I mean, I follow the sport. I follow the races. I know the guys. Lando, it's funny because I, I follow, I'm a follower. I started coming across his name when he was in go-karts in juniors. I think he must have been 12 or 13 years old. And then I met him in 2015, I believe it was, at the FIA Gala at the end of the year when he was winning a championship in go-karts. And I was at Ferrari at that time. And yeah, so we go back a long way. And I think I see, when I see a race, obviously I see the result and see what's going on.

35:10but when I see the interviews after or you see their faces and knowing the situation they might be in maybe not exactly but roughly the timing and so on then yeah I think there's a lot more to see than what you see have you been impressed by Lando this year the way he's constructed his championship challenge I think I'm generally impressed by him one thing is the driving but more so as a human being how courageous he is to open up speaking about how he feels and that blends well with what I was trying to explain earlier where it was just a taboo it was just like you don't talk about it and nobody did and then you had this image of racing drivers where machines were so you know precise and no mistakes and it's all racing and you don't show weaknesses and this goes across sports don't show weaknesses because you know you don't want to show to your opponent blah blah blah and i think it's all crap i think we are all humans we all have our um you know problems that we're facing and it's great to see lando being such a role model inside formula one but also then especially outside formula one and i think that's why also reason why he's so popular because he's giving people that something else not just uh you know racing and okay he finishes fourth and finishes first and you know it's popular because he wins and popular because of results and performances but no he's giving people something else and that's what people appreciate and if you ask people they're probably not able to phrase it perfectly but i think that's in essence why um you know he is one of the most popular drivers on the grid and I think it's such a great thing happening and of course I also see the comments of others criticizing that part it makes him vulnerable it's not good but I strongly disagree he says he feeds off negativity or he did he said that back yeah certainly last year that he actually reads some of the negative comments written about him on social media Yeah, interesting.

37:24And to answer the question, still answer the question before, I think having said and explained that just the way I see, it makes it even stronger to see how he came back. Because I think there was a came back. I mean, he's never really been gone, but there was maybe a phase in the season where he was struggling a bit, a little bit more to get that ultimate consistency and that peak performance. but yeah very impressed with his driving and I think the weekend in Mexico was probably one of the best he's ever had Can I ask you about the two other championship protagonists? Max Verstappen Red Bull family how good do you think Max is?

38:07I think the scary thing is he's getting better This is his 11th season We know he's good but he's still improving, he's still hungry, he's still willing to learn I think he's working very hard behind the scenes as well and that's you know what makes him so strong and of course he's I think blessed with a lot of talent on top of that but even if he's one of the most talented drivers on the grid I think ultimately what makes him so strong it's always a combination but the key ingredient is his head I think is in the situations where it matters. He keeps his head, hardly ever makes a mistake, delivers when he needs to, feels the pressure.

38:53We all do. I don't think it's possible. Nobody, you don't not feel the pressure, but he's able to find a space in his head where he's able to put that to his side and focus on what matters. Do you think he'll be feeling the pressure less than the other two because he's a Right now? Yes. Also because he's won the championships. I mean, not a lot of people won that many championships, but I've been lucky to say that I've won a couple. I think the biggest relief for me came with the first one. It's just like, you know, it's a bit like the first, the first win. It's like, wow, I can do this. And then obviously after the first win, it's like now it's clear more than ever.

39:39You want to win a championship. so yeah he's he doesn't need to prove to himself that he can win a championship plus in the position he's in right now being in the hunt it's like okay just got to do everything perfect and if it works it works if it doesn't doesn't you say he's still getting better i wanted to ask how long do you think a driver is at his peak i mean how long were you at your best best i can't speak for others If you speak to Fernando, he would probably say he's always been at his best because in that regard, he's very confident about himself. I think from the outside, it's natural that there is a peak.

40:20And you see this in Formula One, you see this across sports. But I think it is very individual because it depends on so many factors. Speaking of myself, I think you have to distinguish of peak performances and then peak all around. Because I think you are probably able to deliver peak performances for a much longer time than actual peak, let's say lasting peak performance or consistency. Nowadays, drivers come in and they're very ready. Even you see it with the rookies, they're all doing a really good job. And that's because you start so early and you start to prepare so professionally so early.

41:07so for sure in Formula 1 the demands are different and there's more and so on but I think there's nothing that speaks against being very ready very quickly I came to Formula 1 in 2006-7 and I would say already by yeah 2010 obviously I won the championship I was sort of at my peak but then in 11 I was much more ready to win the championship than I was in 2010 for example and then probably I don't know strong years obviously winning the championship 2015 was a very strong year 17 18 yeah and then 19 and in fairness 20 I was on my way down already and I'm happy to say that now because I didn't have that really last ultimate push anymore did you know at the time no i didn't i didn't um i remember actually in 2018 i started the season and traveled to the first race and i really i felt like i didn't want to go i wanted to go racing for sure but i didn't want to travel it's like oh couldn't be bothered sitting a day in the plane again um and that was weird like what are you talking about i said to myself what you love this of course I do so I went for sure I went and then I won the first race and then I was like all hyped yeah yeah yeah I went to the second race I'm gonna win I'm gonna win and I won the second race and then the season went on it was a very very strong season and then in 2019 maybe there's also a time where the kids started to be old enough to phrase daddy don't go before I always had the looks by the dog like you know he knew when the suitcase was in front of the door that I'm leaving.

42:54And it was hard to say goodbye to the dog, but with kids, it was much, much harder. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes of this show, booking guests across time zones, tight turnaround edits, and constant time management. And when things get chaotic, you realise pretty quickly how important it is to have the right person on your team. If I had to hire someone tomorrow, I wouldn't just want a good editor. I'd want someone who understands pace in long-form interviews and can work fast under pressure. And in moments like that, you think, this is a job for sponsored jobs.

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46:04lots more to come from this interview with sebastian including a great story about his trip to the gym the morning after a big world title celebration and if you want to hear even more from seb search the beyond the grid archive for his two previous appearances recorded as he prepared to leave ferrari in 2020 and as he prepared to leave the sport two years later your entourage at races was very small if you'd taken your wife hannah or even i mean the kids were small but if you'd taken hannah with you would that have changed maybe it's a good point um maybe but then i explained earlier i think that we build our lives outside the paddock Yeah, maybe.

46:56So that we were traveling sometimes together, but also, you know, it's, the pace is fast, you know, and I'm busy during these weekends. So you don't actually get to spend a lot of time. And then it's really only a couple of days. And often when it's in cities, and I would say we're probably, you know, we like cities, but we're not city people. So the trips that we did together, we enjoyed, but I didn't really have time with them together. and it was on a rushed pace because I was, you know, busy racing and I guess you… Seb, it's that reassuring presence with you, not to go shopping or do particular things, but just to be there.

47:35Yeah, but I think… That's married life. Also, my wife, Hannah, is not that type of woman and no critic or criticism to anyone who is different. But like I said, I think we had our life at home and very happy with that. and then kids and then kids start, you know, with kindergarten and friends and all this. Yeah, but then maybe to come back 2019, I had the same question starting the season that I didn't want to travel. And then now I know this much better and understand this much better, but it was also coinciding with the time within Ferrari, within the team where, you know, 17, we started off really well.

48:13We're missing ingredients. Mercedes beat us. 18, we were more complete. Our car was better. Our package was better. we didn't make it. Mercedes was stronger at the end of the season and they beat us. 2019 was a strange year because our car was okay, our engine was really, really good. You remember which year I'm talking about. So, we struggled to just make progress as a team. Real progress, like okay, we are closing the gap or we are actually getting stronger in developing the car especially the second part of the season and I really really wanted to win the championship with Ferrari trust me I that was now I now I'm cool but I was I really wanted it so bad and it didn't happen and 2019 was sort of the break year, I would say, for myself.

49:14Because for myself, I started to feel like we're not making it. We're not good enough. At the same time Charles comes in, I think it was 2019, Charles had so much energy, completely different time in his career, you know, when we finished fifth and sixth or third and fourth. In fairness, I was spoiled. I mean, I won four championships. I won so many races. I had so many poles, whatever. all I was interested in was winning and that's the sort of athlete I was I wanted to win I wanted the biggest trophy I wanted that you know moment on the on the podium where I knew I I won the race I wanted the Monday morning feeling of I won the last race and feel so good but the feeling doesn't last long enough so you got to win another one and Charles came in and when we finished fifth and sixth he was over the moon with the fifth and sixth because different stage of his career and the first time in a competitive car.

50:12I think that's when I started to struggle a bit. Then 2020 comes along, really awkward year with COVID. We're not racing. I get this fantastic break that I never had and enjoy it so much with the family. And at the same time, becoming aware with the kids growing of problems in the world and how they started to affect me and I'm reflecting them. So yeah, I would say at that time, I was probably not on the peak anymore. And with Aston Martin starting a new challenge, I think I was ultimately looking for this reassurance that can I still do this? Which sounds silly because of course I can do it. I've proven it so many times.

50:55But that's also blending in with what I was mentioning about Lando. This uncertainty or insecurity is something that we all have. All the drivers have it on the grid today. I was speaking to Michael about this many years ago and even he had it. And for me, when I say even, it's because he is the greatest. I grew up, posters of him on the wall. He was the best in everything I could imagine with racing. And he was insecure? What? You? So we all have that. And I think those years, from a result point of view, of course I would have loved to see you know the team growing faster but they were important for me because I started to feel really comfortable again with my driving and I think I did have peak performances even at a later stage but overall peak probably not anymore.

51:51A couple of things I'd love to pick up on one is you said you were at your peak in year three 2010 your third full season this probably the fourth because then I said the 10 I won the championship so yet has to be peak. And speed-wise, I think in 2009 and even 2008 was already peak. But then you're not complete yet. Do you see what I mean? So this is Oscar Piastri's third season. So I'm thinking Sebastian Vettel 2010. This is Oscar's equivalent of 2010. Yeah, interesting. How much does he not know? If you see what I mean. Ask him in five years. I think it's individual as well. I think he's a very mature head on his shoulders, a lot of racing intelligence.

52:37So he will improve for sure just through time. And you take any other example, you look at Charles today, you look at Charles back in the equivalent 2010, I don't know which year that was. You look at, I don't know, you take even Lewis, who you could argue, well, he was at the peak at year one. What I mean is peak performances probably last fairly long time. but if you look at Lewis in I don't know 2017 you look at his which for me is one of the most incredible moments of and I mean emotional intelligence and composure Lewis in 2021 in that moment where he was not winning the championship I cannot imagine to be in that position and I've been in many positions when it comes to racing blah blah but to act the way he did, that alone, that together with everything else he has achieved, says so much about his strength and his character.

53:39So yeah, if you take that Lewis and the 2007 Lewis, they're two different drivers. Take the 2007 first corner in Australia. I don't know if you remember his first... Of course I do, round the outside of Fernando. Unbelievable. Yeah, first race. And that's the kind of stuff you do when you are young and innocent. you can still do it later but now I think chances are different that he would take that gamble because all you see at that age is the opportunity now with the experience or later with the experience you've been through so many turn ones and you've seen so much that you also understand that the race is much longer than turn one especially when you know take into context you're in a very good car You start in the first three and you have very strong pace.

54:28Losing a place here and there, you will be able to come back. And you know that after you've had, I don't know, a handful and then more Grand Prix. You don't know that in the beginning. You look at Max in his moves when he was young or when he was in his first one, two, three, four years. And you look at his behavior now. He's much more mature. And holding back here, and it still goes for the impossible gaps and makes them possible, which is great in his skill, but he doesn't go for all the gaps because he knows they're not important right now. If he needs to get a move on and overtake, he's probably one of the best going through the field quickly to make a strategy, a race, recover or work.

55:10But if he knows I've got time and it doesn't actually matter, he's not panicking anymore. So yeah, where did I start off? Lewis was peaking in year one, but I think he was getting a much more mature driver later on. On the topic of Lewis, you've had so many shared experiences with him. Your thoughts on him at Ferrari, I'm fascinated by. Both he and Fred Vasseur have said, I think we underestimated how big a change it was to go from Mercedes to Ferrari. You did that. I didn't go from Mercedes to Ferrari. No, but you've gone from a British-based team to Ferrari. How hard was it? Different, very different.

55:51I loved it. I don't regret it and I had a fantastic time to put this into context I'm German I grew up my mother tongue is German and very quickly it got international because I was racing international I was then racing with British teams in Formula One I started with an Italian team Swiss German sort of team then Italian team but let's say British teams and language was always English and culture in a way was I would say the majority English and then I adapted and I loved it I love the British humor I love the British people I love a lot of things about it the racing the approach but in a way I think I adapted now I don't want to say that Lewis didn't adapt or British drivers do not have to adapt of course you have to adapt and of course you're traveling the world and of course you're seeing things and learning but I don't know how it is or how it would have been had my mother tongue been English and I'm not comfortable in a foreign language and then moving somewhere else now for Lewis obviously happens to be the international language is English he was with a British team every team is different very different and he's been with Mercedes for a long long time and then the move to Ferrari for sure it's going to be a huge difference because the heart and the culture of the team is italian the language is english i mean he understands everybody in the team but there is also employees that he doesn't understand because they don't speak english or they don't speak english very well and if you don't speak a language very well you know yourself you get along but do you really get the people and do you get the culture and i think that's a crucial yeah mistake that i've done looking back is I learned Italian, I took classes and I sort of got along and I understood but I wasn't perfect.

57:47I should have really studied Italian more maybe also spend more time in Italy to really understand the culture more because culture is also the people and I told Lewis before when he made the move I said the only advice I can give you the best advice I can give you is learn the language learn it really, really well. The way to learn a language is you have to expose yourself. So you start to speak to the people. You are in the country where they speak the language. So you're exposing yourself to the culture. So the rest will then fall into place. Now, of course, with racing and when you talk about your setup and so on, you could argue it's irrelevant.

58:27It is irrelevant. But for the bigger picture, to get the culture and the spirit, it is so important. What would a win do for him? I mean, when you won Malaysia 2015? did it change things for you internally in the team? Alleviate some of the pressure maybe? Yes, for sure. The longer it takes, the harder it becomes. But I mentioned the example of 2021 and Lewis's character. He has the incredible ability to reflect the situation he's in now, struggles he might have. And I think he's still in a point of his life where this is what he wants to do. I think he has a fair shot. from his performance, but a lot of things need to come together.

59:11You need to have the team, you need to have the people, you need to, the timing needs to be on the sweet spot. So it would be great and I think he deserves if it comes together, but we will find out. Yeah, yeah. Sebastian, it's been so lovely to chat to you again. If there's one more topic I could ask you about and it's Adrian Newey. Yeah. You know him well, you know Aston Martin well. Is he the magic bullet for that team? You know, I've been in this paddock for a long time in my life and everybody is trying to find that silver bullet. Nobody's ever found it. It doesn't exist. The magic in Formula 1 starts to happen when everything comes together.

59:53Of course, you can argue drivers have a unique position because they drive the car and ultimately need to get it right. And then there is other people within a team that are really key in getting the performances. Adrian is certainly one of them, but also Adrian needs to be in the right environment. But I haven't seen him in a while, but he's been such a long time with Red Bull. The chance is definitely there that it sparks something in him to really take on that challenge, which I know he's mentioned and so on, but I think he does have a quality that not many people have. He is obsessed with racing.

1:00:39He loves racing. He really is like a child when it comes to motor racing and that's the biggest driver you can have. So if Aston is able to provide the landscape, the surrounding for him to find that, to unleash that, then yeah he can be not a silver bullet but a huge contributor to a great car but we'll know in a couple of months well do you think aston could be the dark horses next year i think there's more than one dark horse next year because you don't know what's going to happen with the with the regs and how teams will interpret them which is also the exciting bit then there's always the argument the strongest team now will have the strongest chance of succeeding with the big rule change because they have the strongest organization so you could argue mclaren is a favorite then it largely depends on the pu as well and the power unit how that pans out but um it's going to be the the big teams and aston could be uh i think just from a resources point of view i know because i've seen the projects when they started and now they are sort of finished they do take time to really fall into place with a new tunnel the factory and everything the sim and their partnership with Honda as well.

1:01:57And Honda doesn't come out of the box. They've had now all these years of experience. So yeah, I think the ingredients are there and the ingredients have been there for a while, but you see also how hard it is to make a click. I mean, 2023, they had a fantastic open of the season and then struggling a little bit towards the end. And then 24 and 25 was difficult for them. So yeah, the resources are there. The people are there. Why not? But we will see next year. We will. Well, look, Formula One is 75 years old this year. Do you have a favorite memory in the history of Formula One that you can share with us?

1:02:32Could be your career. It could be nothing to do with your career. First thing that comes to my mind is the race I remember is when Senna won here in 91. And because he was so exhausted after the race. Couldn't get out of the car. Exactly. He lost the gearbox and made it work somehow. My father was a big Senna fan. and I guess I just sat next to him and watched the races but that's the first memory I have of Formula One and then childhood obviously Michael was my hero Michael in red meant everything so a lot of those memories and then I have to say Bernie I think of Formula One because he made Formula One full stop do you stay in touch with Bernie yes yeah he's here also this weekend I think he's still and incredible person.

1:03:21Of course, whatever he has achieved with Formula One, but especially the way he has achieved it. On the one hand, so clever, but a true gentleman. Everybody's done business with him and he's done a lot of business. Nobody talks bad at him and no bad stories about business. It was always fair. That is his superpower. And with that superpower, he built Formula One. So I don't know if Formula One would exist without him. And from your own career? What do you mean? Like the… Just favorite memory. Favorite memory. Monza 2008. Come on. Yeah, that was a first, another first. I don't know. I think there's so many nice memories.

1:04:06And what you start to realize later on as well is, obviously, I have all the trophies. But it's the moments, the people, that you were able to share these moments with. Mostly it's the people. And I'm appreciating that a lot more now than I was at the time. And I, yeah, it went by so quick in a way because I was so focused and there's so many races and the usual. Sometimes I wish I enjoyed it a little bit more in terms of taking the Sunday night rather than going back and then being on the bicycle the next morning doing the recovery for the next race. taking the Sunday night and just going out and have a dinner, which I did a lot more towards the end.

1:04:49Fernando Alonso said he wished he'd celebrated his wins and particularly the championships more at the time. Yeah, but then I think it's also supposed to be a bit like that. We did celebrate for sure. And I remember and I've got memories of the parties and so on and those moments. A really good one was here, for example, 2012. we had a good night it'd be such an emotional roller coaster that race yes yes and i remember that's maybe it's a good one i remember because i had a hangover and i was feeling so bad the next morning i didn't get like an hour sleep or something and it was i couldn't sleep um and really really bad shape and i don't like that feeling so i went to the gym and went on the treadmill to just try and accelerate the process of getting it out of the system and there was a guy from McLaren at the time next to me who was like oh you won the championship last yesterday and you're on the treadmill now and I said yep 2013 starts here and he's like oh he's like you know like you can see this of course it was just that and I told him I'm joking I had a drink last night but you could see his eyes in the in the when I when I dropped the line he's like what no wonder we don't win you're back here Monday morning yeah but what I wanted to say is that I think it's also normal it's the age as well and it's good that it's like that you know you don't think everything and overthink and reflect as much and you enjoying that and looking back of course I enjoyed my life of course Fernando enjoyed his victories but now he would do you know he would enjoy things differently but that's I think it's And it's true for anyone.

1:06:35I don't think it's a Formula One thing or a Formula One driver thing. I think it's true for anybody. How did you enjoy things in your 20s and how do you enjoy them now? What's the pace in your 20s and what's the pace now? I'm not saying that age makes you slow, not at all. I said to Michael one day when he was turning 40, actually, I told him, oh, no, it's downhill because there's a German saying, like, from now on it's downhill. And he's like, yeah, downhill is faster. So I don't believe that downhill. Good answer, by the way, Michael. That's a very good answer that age slows you down, but it does make you appreciate a lot of things differently.

1:07:09Certainly does. And I've really appreciated your time. Now, thank you very much, Seb. Thank you.

1:07:20It's so good to hear from Seb again. And as you can probably tell, he's in great form and really enjoying being back in the F1 paddock. He's so interesting to talk to. and even after all these years, I'm still learning so much about him and his career. His perspective on this year's three title protagonists is fascinating. I'd love to see Seb working with young drivers in the future. He could teach them so much about what's important as a racing driver. Seb, thank you for your time and good luck with the marathon running. It'll be fun to run one together one day. Well, that's almost it for this episode.

1:07:55One quick message about next season before I go. if you're in the US and thinking of going to a race next year, your first chance is in Miami in May. You can get one day grandstand tickets now from just$85. Go to f1miamigp.com to get yours. Well, that's it for now. Thank you very much for listening as ever. And I will, of course, be back next week with another great guest from the world of Formula One. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.

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