Mattia Binotto: ‘Audi are serious’ about F1 success

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3:13Hi everyone, I'm Tom Clarkson and this time on F1 Beyond the Grid, I'm talking to a team boss trying to turn a group of great people into winners. Mattia Benotto has seen how it's done. He was at Ferrari in the 2000s when Jean-Todd, Ross Braun and Michael Schumacher led the way to title after title. So can Mathieu do it with Audi? He and the brand bring ambition and resources, which weren't there when the team raced as Sauber. That brings pressure. Audi set themselves the target of fighting for the championship by 2030. Mathieu admits that's ambitious. But as you'll hear, he's happy to take on that challenge and he's confident that the ingredients needed are being put in place.

4:07Mattia, it's great to have you on the show again. It's been six years since you were last on. My pleasure to be here again, as you said. You don't look a day older. No, but time is flying. Six years, I couldn't imagine. How different is your life at Audi? Because when you were last on, you were team principal. You were running all things Ferrari in Formula One. How different is your life now? It's very different because I think different companies and different stage of the process of developing. So Ferrari is a very settled organization. Audi and F1, not as Audi, but Audi F1 team is really a team that has to become a competitor for the title.

4:52But it's a long way for us. It's different countries, so really different language, different culture. I've been in Ferrari 30 years so I knew Ferrari very well I knew each single person maybe by name I knew each single corner of the company and now for me it's a learning process it's brand new as we said different countries different language different culture different governance and certainly when you look at the governance in Ferrari compared to the big corporate of Audi it's a different one which is not simply different doesn't mean what is right or wrong I think at the end And it's based on my experience having seen differences, get the most out of it.

5:38But it's a change on which I'm happy with because at the end it's like restarting with a new challenge. It's enjoyable to keep me young. Does it feel like coming home? Because you were born in Switzerland, in Lausanne. Yeah, it feels like because it's back to Switzerland, but I'm born and grew up in the French part of Switzerland. Here at Zurich, I was in the German side and in Switzerland, two different cultures at the end, French and German. So it's Switzerland, so it's back to the mountains, the Alps, the lakes. But certainly it's not as Lausanne, it's certainly a different area, different culture.

6:19Can we talk about Henville and what Audi have bought in their purchase of Sauber? I mean, you said not so long ago that it is actually easier to start from scratch than to buy an existing team. What did you mean by that? It's not a comparison to different realities. But when you look at our challenge, it's about transforming a team. because Sauber at the time has been a great team, fantastic team, private team in F1, competing for the best they could do, but it was more a matter of participating, being sustainable from a financial perspective, obviously not having the ambition to win and to be, let me say, the winning team in F1.

7:05So it was a completely different ambition and here when you need to transform because then it's about transforming. It's not building on needs. Transforming a team is not only about the infrastructures, the buildings to expand. The process is really changing habits, mindsets, behaviors to the people, people that were used not to spend, not to invest, to do the best out of maybe not little money, but the money you had. While here now it's a different ambition with all the means and the resources which are required. So sometimes if you, for many years, maybe 30, 20 years, you were used simply not to spend and now you need to change your mentality.

7:51That's the most difficult challenge. I think that's really our challenge at the moment. It's about culture transformation. So as I said, yes, it's about as well infrastructure expansion, manufacturing capacity expansion, team size, skills. but the most difficult and that was I was meaning by it is harder on top of that you need to change people mindset approach behaviors to what's required interestingly I can relate to a lot of what you've just said I first went to Sauber in 1998 and then I came a few months back and you showed me around what you've got now and it didn't feel that different to 1998 there's the tunnel of course which was the result of the sale of Kimi Raikkonen back in the early 2000s but beyond that there was a lot that was the same as 30 years ago so as you said no the the team infrastructure the buildings have remained the same for many many years um the last let me say expansion was with BMW but because that's it um while today if you look what would be required if the benchmark are the top teams of today we need more space we need more buildings we need more we need more expansion and that's our challenge and if you look where we are not much space even no parking slot for our employees so we need really to expand knowing that there is not much space there around so that's one of the challenge we have and do you have some ideas about how you can do that we have ideas we've got a plan um i think we've got as well a very ambitious a great plan i have to say luckily as well we found some solutions that now we are going through in terms of projects but yes i can i can say we we got a proper plan for that but we can't talk about it now right but this begs the question i think that what is it neuburg where the power units are designed and built is what 280 miles from hinville did you think about putting the chassis on the same site?

9:58We considered it as much as we even consider maybe to build the team in UK or in Italy. But first, an existing team, the Sauber team, was in Inville, 600 people. So first, the team exists, so you can't move it, honestly. And still, so 600 people had F1 skills, had proper skills and are based in Inville. So on top of that, I believe that Switzerland may become a competitive advantage. It's a great place to live. I think once you have attracted the right people, the people will retain, will stay. And they can't get poached by another Formula 1 team because you haven't got any... There's no one just up the road.

10:39And they would be approached. They will stay again because I think they will be in the best place and in the right place to stay and to work. So we simply need to transform Inville and Neuber in our competitive advantage. Just out of interest, what advantages did you see when you were at Ferrari, when you had the chassis and the engine under the same roof? Certainly the synergies are better, but it's not such a big obstacle being distant. Now, if you look, all the other teams do not have the chassis and the power unit together. Red Bull has won many years with an engine from Japan. So the distance is not a true obstacle.

11:17And for us, it's a three hours drive. So again, I would call it very close. You did mention the UK. you have a facility in Bicester how important is it for you to have a foothold in the UK in Motorsport Valley in the UK? It is very important that's why somehow we open it for many reasons as you said in the Motor Valley where you've got the knowledge and the competence and the skills it's a way of being close to high potential it's an entry point to our team because often when you approach maybe people of other teams, difficult for them to move because of housing, kids, schooling, whatever, the wife having a job, and maybe it's not the right time in the year to move.

12:06So while somehow having their booster, it can be a first and entry point to the team. We've said we need to ramp up in terms of team size, but the most we are hiring are young graduates, which is our investment for the future. We've got an ambition in fighting for a championship in 2030. So we can afford that. We can afford that investment. I'm pretty sure that the young graduates in two, three years' time will be the foundations of our winning team. So you're going to grow the team organically. When you look at the gap between where you are now and Mercedes and Ferrari and the rest, is there a silver bullet in the shape of an Adrian Newey type figure that you need or are you going to grow internally?

12:49No, we will grow internally. Today, the complexity, I think, of our product of a F1 vehicle from the power unit to the chassis is such that not a single person, we believe, will make the difference. It will be more a team effort as well in terms of competence and skills. and I believe in that. I believe in youth. I believe in diversity and I think that are the strategic advantage that you may have in the future. It will take time. As I said, all the investments, you do not have an immediate return on it. So we know that by investing on young people, first you will need to onboard them. You need to coach them.

13:27You need to develop them. But the energies they have, we mentioned the change of culture and mentality. that's a good way of doing it because the energy, the vibes they're bringing to the team, it's outstanding. And if you come today in our team, in Inville or in Neuburg, the average age you will see is very, very, I would say very young. It's a very young team. I'm somehow proud of it. I'm the oldest. I'm really in New York alone. It's 25, 27, 20. That's really the people you meet. This episode is sponsored by car gurus. I think one of the most stressful things about buying a car is that deep down, most of us are slightly worried that we're about to overpay for something or get a nasty surprise further down the line.

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17:23I'm trying to join the dots here, but you're trying to change a culture. You're trying to build the infrastructure. Yet you've given yourself a deadline of 2030 to win championships in Formula One. Do those dots join? It feels more longer term than that. 2030, when we agreed, discussed and agreed as an objective, It seemed far away, no? Because it was, I remember it was Monza 24 when we somehow declared it. It was in a press conference with our CEO, Gernot Dölner. And we set 2030 as the objective. Five, six seasons by then. Is it long? I think in F1, everything has to happen immediately. Fans' expectations, partners' expectations, shareholders' expectations.

18:16Already five to six years is a long time. So I know it's a very challenging one, but I think it's the right one as well. Each single objective has to be a challenging one. To set an objective furthermore would not be right. But on top of that, I believe it's possible. So I believe in it. It's not that we simply put an objective ahead just to have some more time. I believe that by 2030 we can do it, yes. And has Audi always set itself very ambitious targets like that in its motorsport history? When you think of the 13 Le Mans victories, for example? certainly they did it because they won and they won by even innovating um the way they approach always the exercise has been over very ambitious not only by the winning but the way the way they won diesel in Le Mans fully electrical let me say electrical car with the Dakar Audi Quattro is the four wheel drives in the rally so it has always been uh that type of approach which I think is great now because exactly what you feel being part of that of that company how would you describe the Audi way, right?

19:21We're talking about culture. If the Ferrari way is all about passion or certainly from the outside looking in, you just see passion oozing through Marinello, what would you say is the Audi way? First, Audi vision is the four sprung technique and also innovating through the technology. So whatever is technique, technical is the approach. And also the way I feel it, it's proper technical plan, proper innovation. The processes are right. The technical solutions are the right ones. So it's very robust. And it's exactly the mentality I see, especially I can see it in Neubauer because that was the Audi way and the technical approach to the project.

20:05It's very, very robust. While we're talking tech, looking longer term for Audi, how wedded are they to the current power unit that was introduced in 2026? If, for example, FIA President Mohammed bin Suleim's suggestion of a V8 was to be introduced at the next regulation cycle, would Audi welcome that? Certainly Audi will be collaborative to the discussion. Audi is part of the F1 and is willing to remain in F1 for long. so certainly we will be part, I would say, proactive, positive part of the discussion, making sure that we identify and we define the proper regulation for the future. F1 will remain the pinnacle of the technology because that's part of the DNA.

20:56Was the format V6, V8, I don't think that's somehow a detail at the end. Certainly for Audi, how efficiency engines are important. but on the other side and I think that's one of the elements of the FIA president proposal we need to reduce the cost of the power unit yes even as a big corporate as Audi we are sensitive to the cost and reducing the cost we see that as a positive approach to the next regulation so as I said again we'll be very open to the discussion we'll be supportive to a constructive discussion and I don't think that today there is anything which will stop us by being part in the future.

21:35While we're talking about collaborative discussions, there's something that's fascinating me in the Formula One paddock at the minute, which is the discussions between teams about the regulations and the way that you guys sit down with your rivals to discuss how to solve a problem. Now, I've been around Formula One for 30 years. I have never seen this collaboration. What is it like for someone like you to be wanting to beat everybody on a Sunday and then two days later be having a chat about how we can all work together for the sake of the regulations? Are we really collaborating? I think we are simply all willing the best of the F1.

22:16We know that's our sport, we need to support it the best we can. There are common interests, which is to make the best for the fans, for the spectacle, for the show. And I think more than collaborating, I think there is a common intent, which is already a good step forward. Now you joined Ferrari, 1995, in the engine department. You're an engine guy. Do you still think like an engine guy? I always said that an engine guy, you born engine guy, you do not become an engine guy while a chassis you may become. so I believe because an engine got the sound so I still believe yes that I'm more an engine guy rather than anything else and so when you think of yourself as a leader now you've led Ferrari you learned a lot there how would you describe your management style do you think in those terms first I've never been a great engineer so that's why I think a lot of people would want to disagree with you on that.

23:22No, but I like managing what's my style. I don't think it's me to judge. I think it's, I've been lucky because I have a lot of great leaders and managers, which I've been working closely to, starting from Jean-Todd, Ross, even Michael Schumacher was a great leader. Not a manager, but certainly a great leader. I feel that he was even stronger as a leader than as a driver. Stefano. Can I pick you up on that? That's a big statement to say Michael was a better leader than driver? I think he was capable of pushing always ahead the team to do better. He was so ambitious, raising the bar, pretending the best from everyone, but from him as first, No, it was a role model in that respect.

24:12And people were simply following him, but with great gratitude and conviction. So he was a leader, yes. And the way he was capable of, as I said, pushing the entire organization one by one. He knew one by one. He knew us one by one. So, yes, he was a great leader. So I think that was his talent, his speed on track. Certainly, we cannot discuss it. But what made the difference was his mental approach to the team. While we're talking about your influences, can we talk about Jean-Todd now? Because when I look at the grid now, there are some Jean-Todd pupils who are running Formula One teams. There's you at Audi.

24:54There's Andrea Stella at McLaren. Both of you work with him at Ferrari. Then there's Laurent Mechiez, who worked with Jean-Todd at the FIA. Stefano Domenicali. Stefano Domenicali, who's running F1. Yeah. What did you learn from Jean? First, I think the school we had at the time was an incredible school because, as you said, as a matter of fact, many of us had the opportunity to somehow to develop within this sport and business. I think what we learned is exactly the culture we were mentioning before, the mentality, the winning culture. He was a hard worker, but he was capable of, he was so hungry to win.

25:32no stones unturned but then the importance of the team spirit no blame culture it was about all two guys pushing in the right direction and I think if I look at what Andrea Stella has built in McLaren in terms of culture it's coming from that old school and it's whatever I'm trying as well to duplicate so we had a great school at the time and I think we have been somehow lucky being part of that team, yes And the success that you had at Ferrari particularly in those early 2000s with Schumacher, with Todd. The reasons that that was so successful, is that still relevant today in Formula 1 or has the sport changed too much?

26:11The team size has changed. The complexity has changed. I think when I started myself, Ferrari was 600 people, today more than 1 ,500 people. The budget, three times more at least. The complexity of the product, hybridization. so certainly it has changed in that respect but as I said the culture has remained the same not to be a winning team you need that culture you you need those behaviors from your your team and members and that's that's something which remains and that is what you're trying to recreate yes at Audi well you can't do that on your own although you know you are team principal and CEO can we talk about some of the senior management changes that have happened recently Jonathan Weston Wheatley was team principal.

26:59He left pretty much on the 12 months since he joined the team. Did that come as a surprise to you, him leaving? I think it came as a surprise to Loeffac, yes. Out of blue skies, as you would say. It came as a surprise. I think it was inevitable in a way that he couldn't commit. So once the team have been informed, there was no different solution to somehow the solution we we discussed and somehow the decision we made obviously it has been great working with him i think he has been part of that initial transformation we're discussing he has from a cultural point of view as well because certainly coming different obviously different team to the one i've been experiencing the red bull but again a winning team so again with the winning mindset and mentality what does it mean to get there what does it mean to become champion so i think certainly um he brought a lot of his experience of his background and but at the end it's the way it it has happened now as i said unexpected as a team we need to look forward i think in there no discussion i'm very happy with alan I have to say Alan has now joined the team as a racing director covering at least operationally the responsibility of Jonathan at the racetrack and since Miami it has been a very difficult weekend for us it has been his first weekend in the role real baptism of vibe yeah it is really a tough one but the way you can see he's an expert he knows the job and I'm sure he will he will bring again added value so how different is the job that Alan McNeish is doing compared to what Jonathan was doing?

28:47I think it's not 100 % the same perimeter. So Jonathan had as well some sponsor commercial responsibilities, which now are not part of Alan's responsibilities. So Alan is really focusing on the operational at the race weekend, is the main person, the main responsible during the race weekends for what happened on track. And that's covering the most, I would say. and that as well for me it's the most relevant one because it gives me the opportunity to remain at the factory whenever that's required. We are mentioning the transformation of the team, the transformation of the factory, what's needed to build and transform the new team and for the next seasons that's our biggest challenge where we need the most of the focus and maybe of my energy.

29:36So that's why having Alan at the race tracks gives me the confidence that I can remain back at home and being covered. Do you like the fact that Alan is an ex-driver? Do you like the driver's mentality and the leadership that comes with that? And it takes us back to Schumacher, I suppose. He's a racer. So being a racer, he understands what's that sport, what's required. He's speaking the same language of the drivers being himself a former driver. So when it comes to managing drivers, I think he understands better than anyone else what is in the head, in the mind of the driver. So I think it's very helpful, certainly.

30:12And as we said, he's a winner because he won the Le Mans, so he knows what's required again. and as I said, I'm very happy.

30:49And in moments like that, you think, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Because Indeed Sponsored Jobs boost your listing in search results, helping you reach the candidates with the specific skills and experience you actually need. And it works. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. That's a serious edge when the pressure's on. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

31:27And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Cadillac has entered Formula One, deepening the racing pedigree behind every V-series on the road. Discover a line-up that delivers pure adrenaline in the form of modern luxury. Experience the quickest Cadillac ever, the all-electric Lyric V, the peak performance of the CT5V Blackwing, the nimble agility of the Optic V, and the legendary roar of the Escalade V, all engineered to thrill.