Tom Kristensen: the best who never raced in F1?

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2:40I'm certainly fast. I'm committed. I certainly have some of my dad's DNA in me. There was a lot of the determination of doing him proud, doing myself proud and doing my team proud because every time I was in a racing car, I was always depending on somebody making that happen. This I never forget. Fast? Definitely. A winner? Repeatedly. In the 1990s, Tom Christensen seemed destined for Formula One. They were interested in me and they offered me half a season. My mum and family always said, if you risk too much, don't do it. And I think I was a little bit not ruthless enough, I would say, because many people would say I should have done it.

3:24It never happened. Instead, he stood on other podiums, including the top step at the Le Mans 24 Hours a record nine times.

3:36I'm Tom Clarkson, and this F1B on the Grid is about what might have been for Tom Christensen. How he was on the same path as Michael Schumacher. The times he came close to an F1 drive. The risky offer he wasn't willing to take. And why he was so successful in sports cars. And Tom talks about the day he impressed a world champion in a modern F1 car.

4:05Tom, it's great to have you on the show. How are you? Very good and happy to be here, Tom. Well, you're known as Mr. Le Mans and rightly so after your nine victories there. But can we start by talking about Formula One? And my first question to you is how much would you like to be out there now doing battle with the likes of Verstappen, Alonso, Hamilton? Of course, you would love that. in generally my dream and ambition as a very young was always going towards Formula 1, no doubt. But seeing how well it's going today, Formula 1 has grown, all the drivers, all the teams, it's really fascinating seeing how many followers there is around the world.

4:51And yeah, I think Stefano and his team are doing a fabulous job. But yes, the racing, the core racing, being in the cars, that's what you will always have as a racing driver. But I'm a little bit over my birth certificate for that now to be realistic. But TK, I want to take you back to the 90s, okay? Because I remember back then headlines saying that you were the best driver not to be racing in Formula 1. Do you remember those headlines? Yes, and I absolutely was very happy about that to be seen as the best not to have started in a Grand Prix in a way. But my career was, it was always parallel.

5:35Like the whole ecosystem, I believe is a little bit parallel. Formula One has grown tremendously over these years and so has sports cars as well and the whole racing community in many ways. But there was a lot of links to Formula One. There were several testing, but I always stayed around the sports car racing and that was my path. Was it the case of right talent, wrong time for you? Because you won the German Formula 3 championship in 91. Schumacher won that championship the year before and look what happened to him. What happened to you as the German Formula 3 champion? Were there lots of offers from F1 teams?

6:14Not a lot of offers. When I won the German F3, there was more or less going towards Formula 3000. But it was very inspirational about Schumacher, Schumacher-Hackinen. I beat their lab record at Hockenheim the following year when they had their great battle in Formula 3. So I was very inspired by all that. But I went to Japan. I stayed several years in Japan driving all kinds of cars in Japan. And I owe a lot to Japan about the whole thing. Education of life, I believe. I really love Japan, but it was also a step away from Formula 1, even though I was linked to several kind of opportunities. but it's a different time.

6:55I didn't have any budget at all. I'm kind of trying to be a modest boy, but I'm certainly from humble background, born on a gas station in Hobro, Denmark. My dad was a racing driver, a hard one, particularly in touring cars or even rally cross, things like that. As he always said, don't hit the others, but touching is fine. And that was kind of always the commitment I went into racing with. My time in Japan was fascinating, but just touching on Schumacher I believe we were a little bit parallel in the way of he really did well in Formula One and at the same time I was part of winning teams in sports car racing so in that sense I have been very inspired of having more or less the same the same generation as because there wasn't TK there wasn't the amount of young driver academies back then I mean Schumacher actually was part of the first one with Mercedes.

7:50But were F1 teams back then reaching out for young people to take through to F1 in the way that Mercedes were? No, I love what the academies are doing now. Looking, I mean, it's very hard. If you're really a strong driver, it's very hard to be overlooked by the academies today. Back then, it was a little bit more, let's say, the F1 world was... First time I went into the F1 paddock, It was on my CIK FIA super license for karting. That took me everywhere in Hockenheim. And you can know even in Hockenheim, being very strict with a ticket to get into the paddock. But there I was just having my go-kart license.

8:31And I went in and I talked to several teams already in those years. But I would say who was very good at motivating young drivers? That was Eddie Jordan. Eddie was always telling me he needs me. And at one point it will happen. But of course, there was always money involved, which I never had. But it was also a motivating factor. So I'll say him and his team was probably the one reaching out the most. Then later over the years, not speaking chronologically, I was testing for Minardi in the winter in Barcelona a few times. What era are we talking now? Now we are talking, must be 97, I think, maybe 96, 97, something like that, 98, maybe.

9:18I remember interviewing Esteban Tuero, who was a Minardi driver in 98. Yeah, I tested with Luca Badua at that time. But I had just signed with Honda in Super Touring and BMW for Le Mans. So it must have been 97, 98. But Tom, if you'd already signed for BMW at Le Mans, why did Minardi put you in the F1 car? Yeah, they were interested in me and they offered me half a season. But half a season and then I'm a little bit more, you know, I'm an educated bank clerk, actually. So my mom and family always said, if you risk too much, don't do it. And I think I was a little bit not ruthless enough, I would say, because many people would say I should have done it and then have half a season and see what happens after half a year where I should sign.

10:05I would bring, I think at that time, it was in the region of a little bit below$2 million. Where were you going to find$2 million, though? I couldn't, but I mean, I kindly declined, did super touring, went to Le Mans with BMW, had two fantastic years with them. My biggest near miss was actually 1999 with BMW, where all the manufacturers were there, the race of the century. And we were leading by three and a half laps with Muller and Leto. When we, a few hours to the end, we retired. We were still leading 17 minutes after that. So that was a hard blow. But good things happened later that year. It was testing for Williams.

10:48Were you part of the conversation when BMW were coming into F1 with Williams in 2000? I was never at any, let's say, meeting in that sense. But I knew from as Williams were building the chassis for the Le Mans cars for BMW. I speak very fondly at that time with Patrick Head, John Russell. Those guys were very much in favor of me. And that call, when Frank called me, I know. Hey, Christensen, I need you to test the FW21 at MagnaCour. Can you make it free for us? It will be lovely. Things like that just stays in memories. He was the one who was very close to giving me the chance back then. But Williams were the team in the 90s.

11:38And then they had this dip in the end of the 90s. Obviously, this was now with a later on. They were with a Megachrome. deal when I was testing. And then with BMW, they came in. Michelin came in. A lot of things were good. Michelin was pushing me. Michelin was going in with the groove tires. And I was doing a lot of testing there with them and their chassis. So I would say in those years, if I had had better funding management, clearly I would have been in. But there was a lot of drivers around. Montoya, Ralf Schumacher, John Carer, Jenson Button. So it was obviously on the other side also tough competition, but that was where I think it could have been in one of these meetings, could have gone one way or the other.

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14:41Can you tell us about that Williams test at Manicor? What was the car like to drive? How did you get on in the groove tires? I mean, Zanadi had come over from America and struggled with the groove tires. How did you find it? The first test there was actually when Zanadi, I think they had decided that he should not continue the great man. And then I was testing there in Magna Cura between the races in the East, I think before the Japanese Grand Prix. I had it okay with the groove tires, but nobody was a fan of them. So obviously with Michelin, what we were trying to do was particularly of nursing out that sensation of one or two very good laps.

15:23And then they would normally grain and you will drop off and lose lap time before you would then it will clean up and you will come back. that was more or less what it was all about particularly at the fronts obviously so they had the disadvantages but there was clearly a mission for Michelin and from me testing with actually it was overseen by Pascal Vassilon in those days and we got on on pretty well and I think at the end of the day Michelin did a great job when they were in in Formula One with the And yeah, what do you say? A difficult regulation change to kind of slow down the cars a little bit.

16:03Tell us about the Michelin testing that you did. What chassis were they? What car were you driving? I was driving a white Williams chassis. So obviously that was, again, the FW21. There was a Bibendum on it. And we were testing on circuits, free testing, where there was only marshals and an ambulance and then us as a team. So kind of secret. Car was brilliant. They were, what is it? 560 kilos? Yeah. V10. They were just every break, lunch break particularly, they would change the engine. They used the engines. This is in year 2000. They used engines from the team was already having at the Grand Prix, which had some mileage left.

16:49And I can believe and tell you they went below a mileage of 400 kilometers. so you can see sometimes they were going down to about 350 kilometers then they would go for renovation so obviously they had an engine with 180 kilometers left they will put it in and I would go they would say all right you will go for a long run with these three sets and we at Michelin wanted to do three times 20 laps and engine people would say can we cut that to 15 laps each and then And they will make an agreement of maybe 18 laps. And of course, on the third stint, it could happen. It was three times, free spirit.

17:36Engineers were pushing limits beyond. And with these cars being so agile, so light, it was a fantastic time. And I've just been, you know, I mean, just thinking about it, that was a really, really good time to have entered Formula One. And I would love to have done it because it became a bit more, you know, I was in sports car racing. The top speeds were the same. The braking points, things like that in the G-forces were pretty similar to Le Mans because Le Mans was free spirit as well. But in the slower corners where you, the F1 car there with that light body mass was really inspiring to drive.

18:16What a great opportunity for a young driver like you at the time, though, to be doing all that testing for Michelin. How much did the tires evolve in the time that you were testing? That was all about the groove tires. So they evolved, definitely. There was also free spirit, a little bit about the, let's say, the rubber, which was being kind of used. Because remember, it was a competition. I mean, what it was all about was there was a Michelin team, there was Bridgestone teams, and Goodyear had just left. So the whole environment was about who would match up to have the right tire manufacturer at times.

18:58And what was good was Ferrari, as you remember, very exclusive with Mercedes at times, with Bridgestone. So they had to prove their way in. And that was particularly done with Williams, with Jaguar as well, where I also tested. Because what happened that year when I was testing with Michelin was I had just won some races with BMW, but had switched to Audi. I have done the switch to Audi, which, of course, in German terms would, at one stage, I think Gerhard Berger, Mario Tyson, the great guys. They thought, all right, I think we need to let Tom go because he has gone to the other side. Did you know by going to Audi that you were letting that opportunity go?

19:43Yeah, I probably did because that should have happened that winter. So in that sense, I thought I would look for an opportunity. I remember, I mean, Gerhard will tell me now, he's a little bit laughing because back then he said, are you crazy? You're going to Audi. We were driving in circles around Audi. And I said I had a good feeling. And I was honest with him. I said, I went to Audi and I met Dr. Ulrich. He showed me the Humboldt facility back then up near Ingolstadt. And he showed me a drawing of the car. And it was very inspiring. So I signed. And then that following year, we were in Sebring.

20:24BMW was still there, but kind of just for the American Le Mans series. And we were driving in circles around BMW. TK we're going to get on to the sports car era in a moment there's one other thing I wanted to ask you about was a couple of years ago Zach Brown put you in the TPC McLaren at the Red Bull ring July 24 I think wasn't it no September 3rd it was September was it the day but I think in July was I was in the sim at the walking doing the seat can you just tell us about the whole process and how how Formula One had changed between the 90s and 2024? Zac Brown, he more or less on the spot, actually during a live interview or shortly after, it was a little bit like, Tom, when were you last in an F1 cockpit?

21:16And I started to look and count back. And I said, oh, that's many years ago. I said, we need to change that. And off he went. And then sometimes later that winter, because this was in Abu Dhabi, then I think in January, there was an email to me, Paul James and a few other people from McLaren on it. And then he set it up and made it happen. I chose later in the year. I think there was kind of options around, I believe, Silverstone and Red Bull rings. So he already made sure, which he said to me, some tough circuits because I need to test it in the toughest possible way. And then I think Paul James said, OK, that's going to be Red Bull Ring, especially Sector 2 and Sector 3.

22:02And then it was planned, I went to Woking in July, doing the seat fitting, doing some sim work with the team. Can we break that down? Is the seat position in a Formula One car different to a sports car? Not a lot. Not a lot. I think actually you sit a little bit more upright in the Formula One car today than you did back in the early noughties. But you are laying down a little bit more in a Formula One car. Of course, it's certainly more cramped. And actually, it's a bit more perfected around you because a prototype, it is a two-seater in a way. So you are never, depending on its right or left-hand drive, you normally there's always one corner side where you are a little bit less supported where in a formal car everything is a build around just you and what about the sim did you use sims back in the day not really i i we did uh towards the end of my career we started to have a to do a little bit of sim and where we actually used maglaren initially as a partner so we were there a few times and I've seen a few of the drivers, Magnesh including, where we asked where was the closest toilet because of the drive sickness, the seal, what do you call it?

23:22What do you call that? Motion sickness. Motion sickness. Yeah, so we asked about where the toilet was because motion sickness was suddenly also in play. But we didn't use a lot of simulators. How did you find the McLaren one? I think McLaren was early on. They were probably a little bit ahead in the game back then. But when I came in July now for testing this car, you could already feel in the sim that I would say what is kind of the topic which has already been worked on. that's the inertia of a car so the the weight of a of a Formula One car for me is the is the main thing which has hopefully will come down in future as well in 2026 we're already 30 kilos lighter than the year so the trend is changed and I think we should all applaud that and for certainly for the driving you get a lot better feel out of a car kind of the lighter it is but how well prepared were you for the real driving at the Red Bull Ring because of the simulator?

24:30I trained a little bit up to it, then I came in the simulator and I think I was in it three times. The first time I think Paul James was a little bit worried because I believe one of these crash I had, I think I went off two or three times in the first run in the morning and one of them I think would have totaled the McLaren TBC car. Then I had another one which was not bad. What happened TK? what happened? I think one was I got on the curb. Another one, I just got on the throttle earlier. And another one, I was braking too late. I think these were kind of the things. Is that because you were struggling with the feel of the sim?

25:08Or were you just exploring the limits? Yeah, probably that. And then just when you... I have not been a professional racing driver in 10 years. So, you know, I've gone. I love going to Goodwood. I love going to these things, more historic racing. Once in a while, Audi puts me in a good car for demo or something like that. But when you're out, you are not in sync with the speed of a racing driver. But I was committed, and I think that's what they could see. So the team helped me. So in the second run, it was pretty okay. Then we had lunch. Then up, checked the seat again, as that was the first thing I did, jump in the car.

25:46And then later in the afternoon, I forgot which seat. I think I used Lando's seat. Hang on, you couldn't fit. You and Lando can fit in the same seat. Ask Paul James, but he did. And I just needed the pedals a little bit changed. And then I didn't need the support they had on the sides because obviously I am larger now than I used to be. Well, that's my point, is that you in your 50s are sitting in the same seat as Lando Norris in his... Yeah, and I was also, I said the same. I said, I can't be in his seat. And they, and then, oh, trust me. They said, he's, he's larger than you think in some ways.

26:25So take us to the Red Bull ring now. Just the whole process of pulling out of the pit lane for the first time. How did it feel? And, you know, don't be modest. How were the lap times? Yeah, I mean, modest. I mean, the thing was the third time after lunch, I was in the sim. And I was just nine tenths of the sim drivers who are probably faster than the racing drivers in McLaren and they were quite impressed. But I remember, God bless Paul James, when we went out. I mean, he said, Tom, we're really, it's fantastic. We have you. You should really enjoy it and enjoy it. It's a good opportunity for you as well.

27:04So kind of telling me, calm down, man. You are in proper equipment here. So yes, he probably felt I was a little bit too committed. so when we later went this was end of july so in beginning of september we went to red bull ring i had the opportunity of seeing another driver having his first test spending most of the day which was kind of the proper test obviously a certain driver well wasn't that wasn't that gabriel bortoletto there you mentioned it yeah no because he was part of the mclaren young driver program back then yeah he had his first test and he was there doing all morning doing the most part of the afternoon and then around 3 p.m.

27:46they swapped and I got in the car and had my two, I think it was five laps and then a break and then six laps and that's what I had on one set of soft tires and it was absolutely brilliant and I will always remember Zach asking me so late, It's kind of made a full circle. It was good. It's fast. What surprised you about the car? To be in sync with the braking. And there I just trusted completely the sim. So I would say that's when I was bravest, particularly down to what you call turn four, as it's downhill. And basically one time you log off, you are off in the gravel. That was kind of the toughest in that sense.

28:35Physically, it was clearly turned nine. Over the crest, right-hander. I mean, different laps, you will see Landu and Oscar doing in sixth gear on seventh gear, even in seventh gear at times. So that's fast. And that's barely a little lift. You're flirting with sixth gear. And you know, when you have not been in a racing car for 10 years, it felt like my flesh, my whole body flesh, was smashed up against the monocoque on the left-hand side. And it was simply just my bones, teeth sticking together and the commitment trying to match that going through that corner and without putting a foot wrong on top of that, thinking about Paul James and Zach Brown not doing any damage.