A Sofia Coppola Appreciation Pod

0:28Hello and welcome to Fashion People. like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount.

1:02Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I'm in the middle of my holiday, so I'm going to keep this short. If there was breaking news while I was out, rest assured, I'll be addressing it next week. Don't worry. You know that whatever came out, but I have more than people are saying. So don't worry about it. If you have something for me, send me a WhatsApp or whatever, trying not to pay attention. But just again, if something happens, don't worry. I will have more upon my return and make it worth your while.

1:43Today, though, enjoy this episode with Amanda, who is an expert on all things Sofia Coppola. I thought it would be fun to discuss Sofia in depth with someone outside of the fashion industry. who could speak to her influence more holistically and her business generally. Maybe Sophia would come on at some point to discuss it with me. We'll see. Anyway, Amanda and I had a great time and I hope you do too.

2:12Amanda Dobbins, welcome to Fashion People. This is a true honor. Thank you so much for having me. I am so honored to have a professional podcaster on my podcast. I think you're professional too. You are not cutting yourself enough slack. You were wonderful on one of my podcasts, Jam Session. We got great feedback. So I'm excited to continue it. I know. This is the month of Jam people. Jam people. So I still haven't tasted the Megan jam. I wanted to tell you I was listening to your podcast this morning with your colleague Rob, who has a great podcasting voice. He does. and I wanted to tell you I do know someone who tasted it.

2:56Okay well then maybe would that person be willing to do like a call-in segment? Yeah there we go. That's the thing. This person I don't know if I sent you the quote this person I asked can I use this in anonymous feedback online sheet and she said no. Okay. Because it's just too close. Everything I'm like yes exactly this person is close and it just it seems like not that much jam was made because yes I have been trying to find someone who even knows someone we can have several degrees of separation to to report on this jam as the journalist that I am that there's scare quotes on that um and then I also was straight up like I'm trying to enter the jam resale market like I offered a hundred dollars and there is I have gotten absolutely no takers, which just says to me that not that much, like there aren't that many people who have access to the jam.

3:55I agree. The only person that I know who got the jam is Elizabeth Holmes. Right. And I think she said what she said her piece. So also I'm doing this for content and so is she. So I thought that was a great marketing move on everybody's part. It was very savvy. and Elizabeth Holmes has worked very hard. And then she gets to review it on her platforms. But, you know, that people, when I asked listeners to help me locate some jam, everyone kept sending me Elizabeth Holmes' Instagram as if that would be useful to me. And it's, you know, it's okay. I hope everyone who got the jam enjoyed it. Yes, unfortunately.

4:37You know what, though? I think because the other person I know, I actually know two people because I know Elizabeth and she publicly got the jam. But I know this other person who got the jam who doesn't want me to send the line about the review of the jam to publish it. I think I probably do know a few other people. I'm going to do some work on this on my flight home tomorrow. Okay. Did you have jam for breakfast? And what did you have for breakfast? Because on Friday shows, that's the first question we ask. So I knew this was coming and it was a tricky day because I'm going to tell you I had a 1030 a.m.

5:16solid core class. Shout out solid core Pasadena. I'm a loyal member. Thanks to Lauren's recommendation. It's too good. I want this. I went yesterday morning in New York. It was really hard today. They did obliques right after core warm up. And I just like I don't have that in me anyway. So normally I wouldn't have breakfast before a 10 30 a.m class I would just you know be coffee with you know more real dairy than than is than most people do but because I knew you were going to ask I ate the rest of my son's greek yogurt with granola and blueberries sounds delicious and I said no to the leftover banana bread and had the greek yogurt instead because I didn't want to hear about sugar content from you.

6:06The last person actually who was on last Friday, Mark Metric, he said he eats Catalina Crunch. What is that? Do you even know about this as a person who eats real sugar? It's like this cereal that you can get at Sprouts. Okay. That is looks sort of like Chex Mix, but it is high protein and no sugar and there's you know net carbs one and they it comes in like cinnamon sugar okay i had michelle's granola are you familiar with whole foods best i think it probably it says it's grain free on the label there probably is some real sugar i'm a person who eats refined sugar every day uh and so far i've lived to tell the tale michelle's michelle's granola as far as Whole Foods offerings go is pretty good.

6:59The granola inflation is real. I would say prices have doubled by like, or not doubled, but up 50 % since we became Michelle Granola customers. But it's good. And who knows how much it'll cost when this actually runs, because this is running during my vacation and that's several days from now. So it might even be triple the cost. Right. Go to Line Sheep for more information on tariffs. Just kidding. Who Who knows? Every day it's different. We can't fit a dad. So I wanted to have you on the podcast for a very special episode. I'm going on a big vacation. I'm not going to work during this vacation.

7:38And I figured what would be an evergreen podcast that the fashion people listeners would be into and would be fun to do. And I've wanted for a while to do our podcast on the row that I did with Misty White Seidel, who writes for the New York Times was very popular because we just kind of talked about what made the role successful, challenges of the role, et cetera. Please listen to it if you haven't. And I loved it. I learned a lot, including what a SKU is. Oh, thank you. That's what I texted you being like, what is a SKU? Yes. A SKU is a stock keeping unit for everyone. And that is something, and it essentially means a style.

8:19So if you have a unique SKU, you have a unique style. So it is like retail jargon that I forget that people don't know. So thank you for asking. It's okay. I've just added myself as the non-fashion expert on this podcast, but that's okay. Well, you are pretty knowledgeable and also you are interested in fashion. And also you are an expert on Sofia Coppola. And I feel like if anyone didn't notice, Amanda and I are friends. and I feel like Sophia is a shared interest. Absolutely. And I thought it would be fun to have you on to talk about how her film career kind of connects to the fashion industry and why you like her and why you like her movies, but also that you like the way she dresses.

9:11And it's going to be really fun. I thought we could start with what was your first experience with Sophia Coppola? How did you develop an interest in her? Was it through images of her? Was it through her movies? It was through Lost in Translation, which came out when I was in college and also, crucially, was a big Oscars contender. And in fact, Sofia Coppola won the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay for Lost in Translation. And I have always been a huge Oscars nerd. Like, we're talking 10 years old reading Entertainment Weekly, which is just not. the coolest thing that I've ever said in public, but is true.

9:52And so I think that I always tried to see all of the Oscar films. And I remember seeing Lost in Translation. I also remember it being a movie of interest to the people I was hanging out with and like the slightly older people that I knew in college. And I was like, oh, there's like something cool going on here. And I was obviously immediately taken by that movie. And then I do think that I sought out The Virgin Suicides or maybe they kind of showed it through the film program in college. But I did enough research and I also was probably impacted by that Lynn Hirshberg piece about Sofia Coppola around the time of Lawson Translation.

10:44Because I was also very interested in media and, you know, still a big celebrity profile. I mean, it still matters to me, but definitely made an impact. And so I remember I became interested enough that I was there opening weekend for Marie Antoinette, which is 2006. So through the movies, but I think in the best way through the movies, I learned a lot about fashion, a lot about music, a lot about other movies. you know, she thanks Wong Kar-wai in her Oscar speech, or she did. And that led me down the road of his films. So she has kind of, I guess, been a portal to everything cool in the world that I know about.

11:28I think for a lot of people, In the Mood for Love, Wong Kar-wai, is that his most famous film? Yes, I think so. It is the most referenced film in fashion by fashion designers. It is everyone's favorite film. It's Tim. I don't know if it's Tim Blanks' favorite film, but it's one of his favorite. It's a number one. So I think that is how it's so closely connected. It's interesting. For me, it was Milk Fed, her fashion line, and also The Godfather Part Three. Oh, interesting. Yes. Because I grew up single mom and we used to rent every single movie. So basically, a movie from 1985 to 1995 that wasn't a horror film I've seen.

12:16I've seen like truly madly deeply, like every single movie. Incredible movie. Anthony Minghella is first, right? With Alan Rickman? It's with Alan Rickman. I have no idea if it was. I didn't even know that Anthony Minghella directed it. But yes. So all of that stuff I saw when I was really young. And I remember watching. I watched a lot of movies inappropriately young. Famously watched Twin Peaks when I was eight years old. My mom was just like, this is great. You should watch this stuff. But I remember watching her in that movie and she's notoriously very bad. And I didn't think that movie was bad while I was growing up.

12:54I guess it's considered not to be good. But I do remember she wasn't a great actress. But my mom said, you might look like that when you grow up. So the complex of the complex of me. What did she mean by that? She was just like, I could see like, that's kind of what you're going to look like when you grow up. Okay. Which, you know, in no way, but like completely delusional. But it was just a thing of I was I was like, oh, this woman, this girl, she was still a girl, was like beautiful and interesting. And then combined with the fact that I was learning that she had this cool fashion line called Milk Fed.

13:34Right. And she was in all the cool magazines and all of that. So by the time Virgin Suicides came out, I think I might have seen it in the theaters. I don't know. But she was like already a thing to me. Right. In terms of being obsessed with her like aesthetic. Her and Kim Gordon and Spike Jonze, who I definitely didn't know who that was when I was that age. But that whole scene of people became a real thing for me. And there was Jeff McFedridge, this artist who did the logo for Virgin Suicides and worked with Spike Jones on, I think it was like a skate magazine. There's a documentary about him that I went to see at that Neutra house.

14:21That's or is it Frank Lloyd Wright in the Barnsdall art park? I think it's Frank Lloyd Wright. Yeah. And they have like a little screening room. And I went to see it. Warby Parker did the screening. And Spike interviewed Jeff. But in the film, Sophia's in it. Spike's in it. And I was like, these are the last cool people that ever existed in my mind. Absolutely. They were really cool. And Sophia's in like a cashmere sweatshirt and all her fancy jewelry. And she still looks so cool. Yeah. Well, they were a type of cool that you and I can't actually attain, but they're a type of cool that I would like to try to attain and to imitate.

15:08And I think we'll talk a lot about Sofia Coppola's personal aesthetic and its influence on our lives. but everything that she wears does says honestly both cracks me up and is incredibly enviable and if if if I were cool enough and you know if I had the means and the pedigree and everything that she had it is how I would like to it's how I would choose to dress live make art whatever I do think you do a pretty good job at capturing the essence Thanks, I mean, I really try sometimes I when i'm packing for a trip Like an adult trip, no kids And i'm I don't know like what to pack. I just like google sofia coppola street style and i'm like, okay So like here I just I need to get back to basics, right?

16:01Like we this is How are we going to put this together? We just wear what sofia would wear It's so true and and I was gonna bring up the Rory Rory Rory Satran who is the Wall Street Journal's fashion director and also Donnie Maul who is the editor-in-chief of Fashionista they both written about this it's kind of like the what would Jesus do of Sofia Coppola it's what would Sofia Coppola wear and I do think or which or would she buy this I think Donnie says what would she wear? And Rory says, what would she buy this? And it is a good, it isn't just a good, I thought about it on this trip to New York because I had two events where I had to like, look appropriate.

16:46And I thought about would she like, what would she wear to these events? And it was easier for me to put it together. So it's probably a small group of people who are thinking this way, but it's a powerful group. But it's a, sure, it's a broad reference. I always think about, I've always been slightly intimidated by the fashion world. You know, you are, you navigate these circles and runways with ease and I am fascinated, but I don't really mingle. I just observe. And part of it is because I'm always intimidated by like, well, what would I wear? And I don't, you know, I don't look like I'm in a fashion magazine.

17:27And it's not even that this is not like a body image thing. It's more just I would look silly if I were like done up for the cover of Vogue. You know, that's that I have a different path in life. But the reality is, is that the actual fashion people. They dress differently and they dress with a lot of style, but not with flashiness. And Sophia has, to me, has always exemplified like the absolute pinnacle of that. And it's a little bit uniform, but it's just every single piece is still exactly what you want. It's lived in. It's not showy, but she still looks very chic. And that is that's how I want to look.

18:08Um, so it's, well, I guess we'll talk about the clothes in her movies, but, and you asked me to put together examples and I did. And obviously the clothes are really important to her movies, but most of my examples are just like pictures of her on the street in a striped shirt, right? Totally. And I, and I also think her personal aesthetic is reflected in her films. Like you think about Marie Antoinette even and the pink sneakers. Yeah. There, there is, it's so connected.

18:42how would you kind of describe the feeling of her movies well this is going to sound dismissive and i and i don't actually mean it dismissively i mean it with great respect for her and also for all of the art and the the media that i'm about to reference but And it really, it is high fashion photography turned into film. It is about, it is young women in beautiful clothes and or interesting clothes in beautiful places and or interesting places, perfectly composed, which like all films should be, but I see a lot of movies and I got to tell you, like not everybody understands composition. and done with a particular like eye for a frame and a photograph.

19:37I mean, she, I think, studied both painting and photography. She references a lot of photographers in her wonderful book, Sofia Coppola Archive. So, and she is also like a person who I think has read as many fashion magazines as we have and reveres them and sees the art in them as opposed to the commerciality. And so much of her work is, and her films are about young women and also about surfaces and exteriors versus what's going on inside, what's going on underneath. And so there is a lot of attention paid to the surfaces, the costumes, the set, the actual visuals of what you're seeing to communicate both something about what you're seeing, but also what might be going on behind it.

20:33Does she use the same interiors, like set designer every time or has she evolved it over the years? I think she evolves it because a lot of times they're filming on location. Like they filmed at Versailles. They were the first for Marie Antoinette. They were the first film that could ever film at Versailles. Obviously, Lost in Translation and Somewhere are in hotels, real live hotels that you can still visit. um so i i think and then for example priscilla they couldn't film at graceland it was a very tight budget so then they just had to recreate graceland so i think it's it's a little bit of who's available and and what the task is how much do you think because in terms of costume designer.

21:25So she worked on, I think, I don't know if on Virgin Suicides, but on Boston Translation, it was Nancy Steiner. That's her name, right? Yes. Who has done a lot of really amazing stuff. She also did, what's that movie with Carey Mulligan, the Emerald Fennell movie? Oh, A Promising Young Woman. She did A Promising Young Woman, which is interesting because there's an underwear moment in that movie too. Right. Nancy Steiner's awesome. She did the Twin Peaks, The Return as well. She's, I just think she has, she's really amazing. And in more recent movies, she's worked with Stacey Batat, who is connected to a lot of fashion industry people.

22:07I've met her. She's really cool. I've obviously never mentioned the fact that I'm obsessed with Sophia's movies. Right. But it feels to me like if you look at the movies where it's real people, real like set in real life. So Lost in Translation or I guess Contemporary or On the Rocks. And those were two different costume designers. But you could see that like Scarlett Johansson's APC and Eric's underwear in Lost in Translation were Sophia's. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And Rashida Jones' striped shirt was Sophia's in On the Rocks. How do you think she works with costume designers to tell more of the story?

22:58Because some directors are really into that and some of them it feels like they don't consider it as much. I think she's incredibly involved and we know that because she's so interested in fashion i you know i have always wondered how conscious the scarlett johansson as sophia costuming in lost in translation was and i think it's pretty intentional right like that but the button-down shirts the trench coat you know as a director do you think she's sitting there being like okay so just dress her like me Or do you think that there is some sort of unspoken understanding between Nancy Steiner and Sophia that we're going for this look that is just stuff that Sophia wears?

23:47I think on On the Rocks, she's talked about being a little bit. She's been a little more upright about the Rashida Jones character as a doppelganger. So maybe there is a little bit of or, you know, like a stand in for her, I guess. Yeah. So maybe there is a little bit more of knowingness. But in terms of, you know, the really those are the two real life. Those are the two Sophia stand-ins, I guess, though arguably they all are. And then she has things like Marie Antoinette, which is just completely over the top, and Priscilla, which also involved recreating a huge number of costumes. and she'll tell you about, you know, calling in the favors from Chanel and Valentino for Priscilla.

24:40She'll tell you about the costume fittings for Marie Antoinette. So I think, and, you know, the color references. And I think, like, the directive for Marie Antoinette was just like the pastries, like the lingerie macarons were just kind of, let's lean into that. And that really is the color palette for the entire movie. clothing whatever so I think she's really involved I think she thinks of the clothes as a character or at least as an essential part of character development which they really are in all her movies because again they're about for the most part young women navigating the world and navigating the world's expectations of them and also like the public and private a lot right which is another Sophia thing of she's obviously a person who's been in the public eye in one way or another since she was very young.

25:35So how they look, what they're wearing is essential to who they are in the film. She's such an interesting person because she seems kind of shy. Yeah. But also open. I've only interviewed her a couple of times in very, very controlled environments. but I remember once she was like, have we met before? And I was like, I interviewed you on the red carpet at Versace for H &M. It was that kind of thing, but she feels very comfortable and she's open to doing interviews and talking to people and it doesn't feel self-promotional. It feels like she wants to give back to people who are interested in her work and having a dialogue about her work.

26:24So I think that openness is a reason why, of course, she interned at Chanel when she was young and wanted to be a fashion designer and decided not to do it. And you can watch the A24 videos or whatever of her talking about this stuff. But in the way she treats fashion with so much respect, and even when she's doing commercial projects with the fashion industry, like she did these windows for Chanel that are on Rodeo Drive, which is like the most commercial thing you could ever do. And they're amazing. Yeah. She clearly puts an effort and work into it. And do you think, like, what is her, in your world, what is her sort of respect level?

27:14And do you think because she is so interested in those sort of top line aesthetics, it's been hard, and also obviously her background and all that stuff, but do you think it's been harder for her to gain the same amount of respect as, say, like, someone like Wes Anderson, who is equally as interested, but is a man? and, you know, who's a peer of hers in a lot of way. I think. I think that she is extremely well respected. There still is, you know, I co-host a film podcast and with a called the big picture, called the big picture. My my friend and co-host Sean Fantasy is a cinephile and a huge enthusiast of all types of movies, including Sofia Coppola's.

27:56But, you know, it is when a Sofia movie comes out, It's like it's Amanda time. You know, there is something still a little gendered about that. But I do think that her specific vision and her ability to. to just like to bring what could be lightweight subjects or that's not fair actually because i i think that that's my internalized misogyny lauren i'm sorry but you know most people don't take teenage girls seriously right um and she has taken them seriously and made them the centerpiece of most of the stories in a way um and then and then made cinema that uses not necessarily the like the rules of dude cinema but at least recognizable hallmarks she uses serious cinematographers she uses um fine art references and so people people take her seriously um and i think even men take her seriously uh even if it's like you know girl's time to shine um i think i'm sure that the the dad stuff held her back and she'll even talk about that and she'll talk about how godfather 3 was like not a positive experience for her i mean she was like pretty maligned about it but i do think now there is this whole like kobla clan saying that's happening because so many of the next generation have gone on to be like meaningful filmmakers her brother roman um jason schwartzman is a cousin giacopola you know just made the last show girl so i i think she is taken seriously and maybe because she's working in slightly with higher end references taken more seriously than someone like, say, Nancy Meyers, who your point about Wes Anderson and the and the composition and the fancy clothes and everything being just so is, I think, a good comp.

30:13But in terms of stories about women using design and and clothes and everything, because Sophia is like working with Chanel, right? And then Nancy Meyers people are wearing, you know, beautiful Gap or I guess Nora Ephron's really the Gap, but it's a lower market and it does seem like without the gloss, people don't take it as seriously. Yeah, she has the, she's a real fashion person. She's in the She's in the inner circle. Yeah. And everyone should also sign up for Puck's inner circle to access all of my reporting. The interesting thing, point on Nora Ephron versus your girl, Nancy Myers versus her daughter.

31:06They're both my girl. They're both. I had one moment of sexism, but I'm back and I embrace everyone. They're all your women. I would say as a person inside the fashion industry, Nora Ephron to me, totally nailed it every time. It was more accessible, I think, too. But like You've Got Mail was all Marc Jacobs and it just looks like preppy clothes, but it was all Marc Jacobs and Nora Ephron herself. I remember there was a shoot in like 2008 or 2009 for Vogue. And it might have been when the neck book came out. Bad about my neck. Yeah. Yes. Because the funny thing is I'm starting to feel bad about my neck and I've been thinking about that book so much.

31:51But she was wearing all like Raf Simons, Jill Sanders. She had amazing taste. And I think Nancy, I think you're right. And I thought it's interesting because Nancy Meyer's daughter just did a movie that you really loved starring Michael Keaton. Okay. Let's put in some context. I enjoyed and recommended to you and you got a lot of plain content out of it. I loved it. And at least one newsletter item. Yes. So in that sense, we all had a lovely time. Yes. And the movie is called Goodrich. Goodrich. But the costumes are so perfect. And I think it is a thing of they're just the color composition, the items that they chose.