American Fashion Story

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2:32Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm the Sherman writer of Fox Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Stephen Kolb, CEO of the Council of Fashion Designers of America. We chat about his near 20-year tenure running the organization, how the fashion industry has transformed over those two decades, and what to expect at Monday Night CFDA Awards. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love puck where I send an email called line sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries.

3:15Line sheet is scoopy analytical and above all fun. Along with me, a subscription to puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone, and happy Halloween, I guess. I am not a Halloween person. I wasn't even really a Halloween person as a child. I do not like costumes. I don't like putting on thick makeup.

3:55Candy is great, but really, I'd prefer Thanksgiving or Christmas any time. Luckily, my kid is not old enough to beg me to dress up. So I will be trick-or-treating tonight in a barber jacket. I probably, I mean, it's been kind of hot in LA. Usually by that time it is cold enough. I'm maybe just a sweatshirt, who knows, but no costumes for me. Just, just hanging out with Lego Batman and his buddies. In other news, it's been a big week at Line Sheet. I have some more on the Armani succession and acquisition saga. Lots of caring tidbits this week. Lots going on at that business. It's really fun to watch unfold.

4:35I also have a note about Lululemon founder Chip Wilson's open letter to the board basically saying that they're doing a bad job. And as an owner of almost 9 % of the company, he wants them to get their act together. Anyway, it's giving activist investor vibes and I am here for it. I am enjoying this as well. I'll be in New York next week for the CFDA Awards, but also a Puck private dinner on Thursday. And I plan to see many of you. I am excited for that and also excited to chill out this weekend because, oh, actually it's LACMA Gucci. So I'm going to that. And my good friend Hannah's 40th birthday.

5:12So, okay, maybe it's not, I'm not going to chill out too much, but I did end an epic run of going out in Los Angeles, which I don't do as much as I do in other cities. And I'm really tired. I canceled my dinner on Thursday night, Tina and Hillary. Thank you for understanding. The best thing to do in LA is to cancel. But really, there was just a lot of stuff going on that I felt like I had to go to because the people are important to me and the events were important. And some highlights from the week were I went to this fun Canale dinner on Wednesday night. And I sat next to Carolyn Dijon, who I had met before, but we really bonded over our love of Kate Young.

5:52And there were a lot of nicely dressed men there. So that was fun. Stefano Canale was in town. And he reminded me that they are independently owned and have been for the whole of the business. He's a third generation leader. so good for them. There is a path forward, people. Otherwise, I had lunch and dinner at Cuckoo, which needs to fix its valet situation, but otherwise is a real delight. I enjoyed it. Just park on the street. That's what I did for the lunch after the dinner, but thanks to ALC's Andrea Lieberman and Justine Loop, who you may know from Nobody Wants This and Succession for having me at dinner on Tuesday night.

6:35We had a really good time. It was such a great group. Emily and Merritt from The Great were there. My buds, Rebecca and Allie. And it was just like a really nice mix. And then on Wednesday for lunch, Ricky DeSole hosted LeMond Barrel. Lily Atherton Hanbury came out from UK and Paris where she kind of like, I don't know where she actually lives. I think she lives in the UK, but she's around the continent to celebrate that brand. And that was also really great. I like Lily so much and I love what they've built over the last 10 years. One thing I will say, it kind of blows to go out in Los Angeles because it tends to feel a little provincial, no offense, but you just see all the same people.

7:25Like you sit down at dinner, you're like what's up guys and if it's your good friends fine it's sort of like planning around a dinner anyway but the reality is it can get really boring and I think all the dinners I went to this week were with mix of people who I otherwise you know don't spend a lot of time with and a lot of people from Europe which was super fun too after I had just seen all of them in Milan and Paris but But both of ALC and LeMond Barrel did an excellent job of mixing it up. And I made some new friends. Anyway, I will see you next week in New York. And I hope you enjoy this conversation with Stephen, who I've known for most of my adult life.

8:07Stephen Kolb, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you, Lauren. So what did you have for breakfast this morning? What did I have for breakfast this morning? Okay, good. I had green juice, homemade green juice, vegetables in a blender. I had some yogurt and blueberries. And then I had a soy milk latte with one pump mocha, one pump caramel. That is so specific. I love it. Yeah, it's pretty much my breakfast in the morning. Wow, you're so healthy. Yeah, but it's also coming off a weekend where I was at my nephew's wedding and I wasn't so healthy eating a lot of food. Oh, that's so fun. So you're in the offices of KCD right now, the famous PR agency, and you are doing the seeding for the CFDA Awards, which are next week.

8:54That's very exciting. Yeah. Favorite part of the CFDA Awards with the seeding. It's, well, I'm sure you've done seeding over the years of your career or have seen seeding happening. It's really complex because you have so many competing interests of real estate. So you have, of course, the nominees and the honorees, and then you have the moneyed sponsors, and then you have the CFDA members and celebrities and who doesn't like who. And we've made some mistakes over the years. But this year, I think we're off to a good start. You know, I have not done a ton of seating, but I because we do a lot of these dinners, I have started to.

9:36And there was one dinner where I sat two people next to each other that should not have been seated next to each other. And afterwards, all these other people were like, you need to call and apologize. That happened last year's CFDA Awards. We thought they worked together and would be good seatmates. But in the middle of the event, as we come from cocktail down, when the folks realized they weren't together, we had to make a quick change. But like any event, you always had emergency seating to fix things like that. Well, I have to say the last couple of years I've had really great seats. I sat with Cynthia Rowley last year, who was awesome, and then the year before Maria Cornejo.

10:23So it was both of them. I mean, I know Maria really well, but Cynthia I had not talked to in a long time and it was really fun. And it's always nice to make a new friend. Yeah. And Cynthia, as you know, is receiving a CFDA award this year. And she's a really good example of how we tried to create representation, generational representation on stage. She's somebody that's been around for a while, an unsung, recognized talent, designer, CFDA member. So when I called her to tell her that she was getting the award, she was like upstate New York somewhere in a parking lot doing a photo shoot. And I totally caught her off guard.

11:06And she, like, often when I make a phone call to tell someone news, like, they just start crying. And she was just like, you're making it up. And so it's going to be a really special night for her to be honored at the CFDA Awards this year. That's awesome. Well, the idea of resilience in this industry is so important and figuring out how to make it through in your own way. And she's a great example of that. So looking forward to hearing, seeing whatever you all have cooked up for her. So what number CFDA Awards is this for you? Because you've been there for a long time now, right? So I think my CFDA anniversary is in January.

11:46It's my 20th anniversary. Wow. Oh, my God. And so I guess this makes 19 for me, CFDA Awards. So it's been fun. It's a fun event. Of course, you know, it's a big fundraiser, so there's a lot of business behind it in terms of just making sure that we're budget conscious and we're raising the money that the event deserves. And it's been interesting because the first 13 years was with Diane as our board chair, and then three years with Tom, one of those being a COVID virtual year, Tom Ford being Tom, and now in the third year with Tom with an H, Tom Brown. So you've seen the personality of each of them in the event, the production of the event.

12:40We don't have a committee or volunteers involved. It's really the CFDA team, KCD, our current producer, Nyanne Fish, and then the chair's kind of vision. You know, Diane was eclectic in color and mismatched plates and fluffy pillows. Tom Ford was kind of parred back a little bit. We were at the pool and the grill when we came back live. So just more of that low-key New York sophistication. And then Tom Brown, kind of quirky, were back in the Museum of Natural History, which surprised me when we went there the first year and had champagne and cocktails in that big hall of elephants. How many fashion people have never been in that museum?

13:25And then, you know, there's the whale in the big area where you eat and where we do the show. And so there's a lot of fun in that space and very much Tom's brand, the Museum of Natural History. It's true. And it is it's such a New York institution and it feels really special to go there. It doesn't feel like a conference room or anything. It feels like a really special night to be sitting under that big whale. Didn't they do like on the chicken pot pie, like a little whale once or a fish or something? Well, first year we did a whale. Last year we did a dinosaur. And I will not give you a scoop on what this year.

14:07I can tell you we're having chicken pot pie. That much I will confirm. We are moving into another animal. Although Tom did suggest, and I told him in his last year, or we agreed in his last year, he could do this. He wanted Hector as the animal. Of course, Tom's thoughts in Hector as the... Oh, cute. Let's just stick with the kind of animals within the Museum of Natural History. But maybe in your last year, we can honor you with Hector pot pie. I love that idea. Okay. Can we really briefly talk about why fashion people love pot pie? Because I sat years ago at a, maybe it was the CFDA fashion fund and there was a pot pie.

14:49And I think I was sitting next to a deputy of Anna Wintour's. I won't reveal who, but they said, oh, you don't know about Anna's thing with pot pie. Cause she likes it. Cause it's just one, one course. And then you get, you're done. Yeah, I think that's where Tom and we get the idea from and carried it forward. Its intention is to move the night along. It can be a long night. Both Tom and I are of the school that, okay, it's one night, settle in and just enjoy yourself. We don't always have to rush home and be in bed by 11 o 'clock. So if we're taking one night of the year to celebrate the industry and our colleagues and peers, it's okay to be out a little bit late.

15:32But the pot pie does help with service. And look, to be honest, Tom and I have discussed, Tom's like, why do we have to have food at all? And it's like, well, some people come for the event itself. Some people eat. People pay a lot of money to come to the event. Some people are coming and they're buying dinner. So, yeah, we have to have food. So it's a nice balance. It moves us forward. It beats people. No, you have to have food. You have to get people to stay. You always do like a fun performance or something near the end and it keeps it going. OK, enough about the pot pie, even though we could talk forever.

16:08So you've been there for almost 20 years. Let's talk a little bit about what you were doing before and how it connected to the fashion industry and to the CFDA in particular. and what your experience has been like. 20 years is a long time to be in a gig, especially in this era. Yeah, I think my goal was one year more than the longest serving director or person before me. So definitely - Are you going to hit it? Yeah, definitely surpass that. I think it would have been Fern. I'm not quite sure how many years Fern now as executive director. But my path to CFDA was unexpected. My background had been is not for profit.

16:55So I was a fundraiser, volunteer recruiter, manager, working for the American Cancer Society originally. And then I moved to New York in the late 80s and worked for an organization called DIFA, which is the Design Industries Foundation Fighting AIDS, doing all of that, fundraising events, grant making. And through that, I met my colleague, still colleague, Lisa Smiler, because CFDA and Diffa had done an event together under the direction of Maggie Reiser, the model. Her dad had died of AIDS, and so it was a joint fundraiser. So when the CFDA was looking for someone, Lisa suggested that the recruiter, which was Karen Hardy at the time.

17:43Shout out to Karen Harvey. Yeah, yeah. She reminds me every time I see her that she helped me get to CFDA. Lisa suggested me, I was probably the last candidate they interviewed. It was a committee. It was Diane. It was Stan at the time, Stan Herman. And what I feel was my distinction and how they landed on me was that I wasn't a fashion person. I knew Ralph Donna Calvin, Princess Schooler, huh? What's that? And because CFDA is a not-for-profit, I was able to bring my not-for-profit experience and approach to the organization. Before that, Peter Arnold, my immediate predecessor, was a predecessor now.

18:32The person before me was... Yeah, that's right. I don't know, like a successor would be the person after you. So Peter was a lawyer and he did a good job, Fern did a good job, but I definitely brought a different approach. And we were a small little kind of okay, funded organization. But then over the course of many years, we were able to build that up just through a not-for-profit business lens versus a fashion director or buyer or fashion PR person taking that position. Yeah, it felt like you made it into a fundraising machine and created an endowment and all that stuff that didn't exist prior.

19:15I mean, I only started covering the industry right around the time you got there. So I obviously I know Fern, but I didn't know Stan or those folks well. But it became like a really felt like a really professional organization. what would you say like through the years i've written so many stories about the cfda and the american fashion industry what would you say when you got there because the organization it's a trade organization the designers pay dues they're asked to apply they're invited to apply you you all approve who gets in who doesn't but what would you say the sort of objective of the cfda was and what the members expected of it versus what you've transformed it into over 20 years?

20:04Yeah, it's a good question. We were started as a trade organization. So ultimately, a trade organization is focused on the business of the members. And uniquely, we are a membership organization where you had to, and you still have to apply to be part of the organization. But in those early years, and even before I started, and when I started, remember Diane also started her chairmanship, leading the board. But in those early years, I think it probably still had more of what Eleanor Lambert, our founder, had saw as the vision of CFDAB was arts and culture as the baseline of the work we do. How do we promote American fashion culturally as art and very little about how do you translate that art and culture into business practical tangible business even though we were a trade organization and then in the 80s the early 80s is when we created a second organization which is our philanthropy our foundation and that came because of how HIV and AIDS was hitting our industry.

21:20Also, at the same time, Ralph Lauren, because a friend of his, a journalist, Nina Hyde, had died from breast cancer. We started doing fashion talk of breast cancer. So you had this pivotal moment where we began to kind of do events, raise money, and give grants to organizations in service. But with Diane, she kind of really, with me, was like, well, what's the value of being a member? Sure. And this is true, and we emphasize this a lot. The honor of becoming a member is first and foremost the most biggest value of being part of the CFDA. And people should wear that and wave that flag very proudly.

22:07But we started then looking at who are some businesses in the industry, whether they be suppliers, technology companies, the retailers, how can we involve them more so what they do aligns with what the designers need in terms of help or building those relationships. And that's when it really got more service focused. And that came with a lot of positive, but it also created some negative too, to be honest with you. Yeah. So let's, the interesting thing to me about this organization is how much people, I guess because they're paying, designers are paying money, they're paying dues to be involved.

22:54They are so, they expect so much of you and there's only so much you can do and there's only so much you can help shape what happens in the industry. I think you all do a lot, but they do expect a lot of you. What are some of the expectations and what are some of the things you feel like you all have really been able to deliver on as the years have gone on? And the industry has changed so much since you started. It's a great question, and you're absolutely right. As we created more services and more support, often that support or service wasn't for everyone. It could be limited. And so people felt left out, or even as we did more programs, more prizes, as we strengthened to see if they vote fashion fond or had our incubator or any of the young talent programs we have now, only a handful of people can benefit from that.

23:48So other people felt left out or not prioritized. And that has been a challenge. Or even the CFDA Awards, people want that award. They want to be nominated. And ultimately, I'm not making that decision. The industry is making that decision. So as we grew and as we helped more, the people who didn't feel as they were getting that had a little bit of resentment. So what we've just gone through, and I think this is something we haven't really talked about a lot. I call it membership 2.0. It's kind of a recalibration of our membership. And this is really Tom Brown's vision. We went out to every single member over the last year.

24:33And we said to them, what I just said earlier, the value of being a membership is that you are a member. First and foremost, if you can believe that and own that, then you should be part of the organization. But if you have expectation for something more, then you have to really think, is the CFK right for you? And also it's about, if we're in service to you, what is it that you bring back to the CFDA? Something as simple as nominating and voting for the CFDA Awards. If you want to be a part of the organization and you want to have a voice, you have to participate in things. And that's been very, very telling and very kind of rewarding to see how members have reconnected to that core idea of what it is to be part of the organization.

25:21But generally, there's so much that the CFDA does that can support our industry. I think what Mark and Aldo and the editorial team do around storytelling and communication is significant. You know, we have a very large following on social media. We're like 1.3 million Instagram followers. If you compare that to the other fashion capitals, whether it's their Fashion Week account or their organization account, we're way more on people interested. and also just through the storytelling we do through CFD.com, which we just launched. And so you can be Rebecca Moses and you want to talk about a book that you released six years ago.

26:08CFD.com is your outlet. We'll never say no to a CFD member wanting to do a story. And we'll always tell that in a way that celebrates and supports them. So the visibility that a designer can get through just accessing the kind of output that we have is real valuable. Whether you're renting or paying a mortgage, one of your biggest monthly expenses should be working harder for you. That's where BILT comes in. BILT is the membership for where you live that rewards you with points on every housing payment, wherever you live. It started out rewarding members on their rent, but now, as of 2026, built members can also earn points on mortgage payments.

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28:14On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. How much of your work is like managing the fashion week? The idea of fashion week and making sure everyone who wants to show up fashion week or wants to be involved in fashion week can be. Because the thing, you and I have discussed this previously. in Europe these organizations have direct relationships with the government in a way that does not exist in America for multiple reasons a lot some of them are like basically part of the government so like setting up fashion week and being a part of setting up fashion week is that is easier for them in some ways for you you're dealing with like a lot of different types of people and you only have so much you can do in the nonprofit organization that exists.

29:12Do you feel like a lot of your work is sort of ushering people through Fashion Week from the tiniest little brands to the biggest, to the sponsors, to the venues, all of that stuff? Because that must be like a lot of work that is kind of not seen by people because it's probably just answering calls. I often tell people who have an opinion about Fashion Week and how it is scheduled and the logistics of it. I'm happy to give you the keys to the car and just drive it one fashion week and then tell me your ideas. You know, it is a pillar of our work that we will never shy away from. And we are so committed to it.