Armani’s Baller Will and the Shocking Emmys Red Carpet

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1:13Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show are Mike Eckhaus and Zoe Lata, the designers of Eckhaus Lata. We're talking New York Fashion Week, Best and Worst Dressed at the Emmys, Giorgio Armani's Baller Will, The Future of Vanity Fair, and so much more.

1:39Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am heading back to Los Angeles. I had a great time in New York. I did so much. I saw so many things. I went to Shakespeare in the Park on Sunday night. Thank you to my friend Brit for organizing that. But I also went to a ton of fashion shows and parties and coffee dates and phone calls that were done not anywhere that needed to be in New York, but you know, it all happened here. I just wanted to extend another thank you to our partners who I hosted some events with last week. The RealReal hosted a live taping of fashion people last Tuesday. Thank you to Erica Verink.

2:19Thank you to Marissa Meltzer. Thank you to Sarah Shapiro. Thank you to The Real Real's very own Kristen Naiman, who were all on the panel. That recording will launch on this feed in a couple of weeks. I thought the conversation was super fun. It was fun to meet some of you. I also wanted to thank Starbucks. We threw out a private dinner with them last Thursday, which I talked about already and bragged about, but it was really great. And thanks to everyone who showed up for those respective events. so good to see many of you my thoughts on the new york fashion week shows will be in tuesday's email we talked a little bit about it zoe and mike and i but i get into it more on tuesday and so look out for that there on monday's email i have some intel on the armani bidding process and some thoughts on stefano cantino's impending exit from gucci by the time you read this perhaps they will have announced it.

3:15They did not announce it on Monday, as many people had predicted, but he will be leaving. Francesca Bellantini will now be the new CEO of Gucci. I think it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. Anyway, happy first day to Luca DeMeo, who started on Monday. Everyone's very excited for him to be there, including all the journalists who he seems to be very friendly towards if Instagram is any indication. But anyway, it's all a new day at Gucci in the luxury industry. And it's very exciting. I am going to enjoy this week in Los Angeles. I'm not going out. I'm just going to be with my kid. And then I will be back on the road next Monday and prepping for Milano.

3:53And I hope to see you there or in Paris for our, is it two weeks of fun? It's two weeks of fun, I believe. I can't wait. See you then and enjoy this episode.

4:08Mike Eckhouse and Zoe Lata. Welcome to Fashion People. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having us. Hi. I'm so glad to have you all. The two, a mere two days after your show, as I wrote in Monday's line sheet, or a mere three days after your show, because it's running on Tuesday, as I wrote in Monday's line sheet, thank God your show was really good because it would have been a little weird, but your show was awesome. It was a fucking good show. And honestly, I think the best thing at New York Fashion Week, I still haven't. There's a couple of things I haven't seen yet. So remains to be seen. But I always like what you all do.

4:47But I thought this was like really sharp and felt. Have you had a lot of people asking to do pre-orders? There have been some pre-order questions. But the truth is we already sold it. So we kind of just have to be a bummer. There might be some little things we tweak here and there. yeah like our structure is like we sell in june and then we present in september so we do collections time so we always like to like roll the dice and see how to like structure our business in different ways like that so here's a question the pants in the first look that i feel like maybe there were different iterations a few different iterations of them when can i buy those pants those are going to be coming out november december november december realistically and can you describe those pants and sort of the idea behind them because the minute i saw them i was like those are the pants that i've been needing and wanting absolutely yeah so those pants it's basically just like a slightly it's like a lower rise but also kind of a mid-rise because there's a slash in the it's a double waistband with a slash from like the like see i might the side seam to side seam so you just kind of have this like floating waistband that kind of has this slit or sliver that will allow flesh or if you want to have some sort of untucking tucking situation with your top layer um and yeah they kind of my brother is getting married at the end of this month and they kind of were derived in this when we're starting the collection i was thinking a lot about like formal wear and because i'm doing his and his wife's or his future wife's um outfits for the wedding or so that was kind of a impetus and like how that kind of emerged yeah I felt like what I love about what you all do with pants and knitwear generally is that they have a lot of form but they're like loose easy too and I have been looking for a pair of black trousers forever that were kind of narrow but still slouchy and not um everything just looks like a lawyer pant on me.

7:00And I was like, maybe these won't look like a lawyer pant. I thought they were really good. What, how do you all like in the context of New York Fashion Week, like, why do you all show at New York Fashion Week? What, what do you think the value is in doing a runway show? Because the way you present your collection, you know, you're a lot of what you've done is already it's already been sold to the stores so what is the value of of having that show and having your friends come having editors and buyers and everyone come and see it in person well I think we're mega creatures of habit and we love to show like we love to have our friends come and have this be like a community event it's not just for buyers and press people um and the people we work with it's also for us and at our scale like the majority of our marketing budget is our shows uh and then it is also a just frankly a time for us to make money by partnering with sponsors and having this opportunity for not a huge collaboration but a small fun marketing thing for various different um you know jewelry shoes um so all of these things combined just make a net positive occasion for us to basically capture a lot of our social media content in one day and really like have the looks on various different people and not like a photo shoot or a e-com shoot where it's like four models but 30 of them um and kind of like diversify how we're presenting the clothes without it being a series of a bunch of little campaigns that feel kind of like derived of presentness.

8:47Yeah, I think with the language of the shows for us since we've started have always been really integral on a creative level for us and how we kind of, not how, how we consider the collections as we develop them, but the way they culminate in the structure of a show is something that we are really jived on, I think, in the sense of like when you think of fashion, where are the points where there's like actual when it's not so focused on like product and like selling and all these things but like where are the i think also now like campaigns feel like images feel like progressively less valuable due to instagram i think there's some something with shows where it's like how where ideas transacting where are we thinking about clothing and our relation to it in a broader like spectrum and i think else having a show allows us to like have got intellectual and creative like fulfillment in the work we do there's a lot of discourse over sort of the past present and future of new york fashion week and honestly i've been going to new york fashion week since i think 2006 and it's been a conversation since even back then when like all these young cool brands were coming up and everybody thought they were going to rule the world and you all have been doing it for like 10 years or you've been around for 10 years so by the time you all started showing it was already a sort of question of like why what value does new york fashion week have if if not as many buyers or like international editors or and things are coming and now it feels even more, more nebulous, but like, do you all, I, I still see the value in it.

10:36And I think there is, it doesn't, it's to me, the values on an individual basis and I get a value from it. That's different than a market editor at Harper's Bazaar. That's different from a buyer. That's different from one of your friends. It's different from a designer. You know, we all, it's not, it's not as uniform as it used to be, But like, do you all think about it as one sort of continuous event? Or are you just like, we're going to do our thing. We're doing it during this period because a lot of people are in town and whatever anyone else does, it doesn't really matter to us. I think for us, New York Fashion Week, I think progressively in the since style.com emerged and the way we approach fashion month, you know, it just does feel like, and that majority of people are not going to the shows in every city and are seeing them on NelVogue.com or Instagram.

11:35And the fashion month is kind of how I've started to perceive it. I used to make this joke that was like, it's always fashion week somewhere and now it's not a joke. Yeah. And sure, people love to rag on New York fashion week. I think it's important in the sense like, yes it's felt more provincial in like recent years but it's also like we are so far from like an LVMH or caring company and I think the consolidation and homogenization of fashion in those realms makes is a bit like there needs to be space for other voices and brands and yeah there I think unfortunately like the tentpoles of american fashion have kind of shifted or aren't as powerful as they once wore as you have in europe so it makes it a bit more like nebulous new york fashion week at times but i still think there's a lot of value in its existence and for us like it's more than a personal preference i mean mike really is sensitive to anyone saying anything negative New York.

12:38This is true. As a real New Yorker, for me, I'm like, it feels sleepy. I come here for Fashion Week and I go back to LA after Fashion Week. Often, at the same time, the people here in the community that we have are under a brand, are producer. Like, there's no way we could do what we do in another city without a very different financial structure. And we are, it's not, we're not supported by like, there have been times where we've been supported by the cfda or new york fashion week it's like a hashtag institution like we're touched by that support but at the same time the support we have and we've created here out of our community is why we habitually do do it here yeah yeah and we're not opposed to showing him like i'm sure i'd love to show in paris but as i said that's a whole i know from lots of brands adjacent to us who show there and hearing how challenging it is for them when you know you're in this i get like to be a big a small fish in a big fish small pond fall fish big pond situation that it's like can be really challenging when you are up against the attention of you know media and everyone else to come to your show have a properly attended when you're like you're slotted between like Dior and YSL or something like that it's like how can you even begin to play that game totally it it's so true and I think also it is also the the American brands that have moved there who and been successful.

14:03I mean, I can't really think of anyone else but the Rowe, but like the Rowe's business is there. Like a lot of their people live there now. They operate a lot out of there. And I think the thing that fundamentally has been realized for me that wasn't real in 2006, like LVMH and Caring were still forming. A lot of the designers who were showing in New York and not just Perronza School, or there were a lot of other ones were sort of up for jobs, Rodarte, like up for jobs at LVMH and Caring. Alex Wang became the designer of Balenciaga. Like what has fundamentally changed is like the businesses, and it was always, it was never the same business, like Coach and Michael Kors and all that is not the same business as the LVMH and Caring brands.

14:50The difference is those businesses just like became more dominant in global culture. And so I think what is challenging, what I think the, the, as long as you know who you are and you're using this for what it's, what, what it's worth, which I think you two do in particular, but I also think like Kate Holstein does in that she, you know, she puts a lot of money into her shows and it's really client focused, that sort of thing. there are ways to like make this the best possible scenario. And I do think you all use it in a good way. And I am truly not just saying, that's why I was comfortable having you on the podcast the day after, because I was like, their show's never going to be terrible.

15:38And also I do think you all like, you could end up being real. Yeah. But like, I've never, you've never done a bad show. Like it's not, it's not going to be, there's definitely been shows where I'm like I don't like that as much as other seasons but like this season was really good and it also showed that you understand like what to get out of it and I thought it was you know that's the thing like this whole idea of like it's not a big thing anymore it's not a big thing anymore oh well like use it for what it's worth like the world changed oh and and move on and something else will will happen and and it'll shift again so um anyway yeah i mean it's not that it's not a big thing or we don't like what we just did but like yesterday we were at the park laughing about what the day after the show usually what like was for us in the past really yeah been like crying hung over just like completely just ran through sad shells of humans and yeah we're like at the park with my baby like having a nice time you know just it was fine so yes it is totally it is like muscle memory in some ways but also it the pressure from the outside also just doesn't feel the same yeah i think it's also a way to have explained like we are able to do a lot with barely anything so i think it's also sort of like a demonstration in like our skills of like resourcefulness and like what we are capable of as a really small independent fashion brand and like with aspirations that like you know we could do a lot if there was more resource behind us and what that resource came from or looked like could be really like, we could be really spectacular if that was fair.

17:22Totally. I mean, every time I see your show, I'm like, why doesn't this brand hire them? Why doesn't this brand hire them? Why doesn't this brand hire them? It's just so like, I couldn't name five brands right now that you should be the creative directors of. So it's real what you guys are doing.

17:43so speaking of real so do you ever do red carpet have you ever like no no like mike's doing his sister-in-law to b's wedding dress right now and uh we haven't we did bridal like a couple times names shall not be named but like uh-huh the ego involved in that yeah it's just not our bag like it's not our bag to like make people feel like dolls and then involve their ego i've never really understood it um but at the same time this rectangle of it is still entertaining it's cool and like i'm not opposed to i think it's also just like that it's like it's an infrastructure thing resource too it's like you know what goes into making custom clothing and that whole world is something that's a bit outside of like of the way we operate as a fashion brand yeah and then also i think a lot of what zoe and i gravitate towards is like we do like to play with like occasion stuff evening garments but it's like a lot of what i cost a lot is really focused on is is sort of like foundation dressing with like a twist, I would say.

18:46And it isn't about like, you know, internal corsetry and like black tie tailoring type stuff. Totally. Okay. So last night, well, I mean, this is running Tuesday morning, but we're talking Monday. Sunday night was the Emmy Awards. One of the, it's sort of the kickoff of the red carpet season. And we were discussing the fact that it was sort of a non-starter here in, and usually Zoe and I are in LA. Maybe we would have felt it more if we were there, but I really just like didn't. Also, some of the kind of best red carpet people, Isleta Beery, Greta Lee, neither of them were there. And I always look for them.

19:31But what a source with firsthand knowledge of the red carpet, let's call this person that, said to me, the carpet was shocking. End of season dresses, post-Venice in Toronto, pre-fashion week, all equal shocking red carpet, which I essentially think means there weren't a lot of dresses available. And so there was just like not a lot of great stuff. But I was just curious, like, was there anything you guys saw that you really liked or you really hated or you thought was interesting? I guess I wasn't clicked into knowing the M &As were happening until I really, for this conversation. But I do think on that note, there should be some sort of, I remember a few years ago, like the Oscars overlapped with Paris, right?

20:15And it's like, why is it there conversations where they like structure these like large events but not to overlap with one another? It really needs to be acknowledged as just an ad and not like some creative process or expression from these actors that it feels genuine. But I mean, I think when I looked through it, I felt like the men were having more fun than the women. Agreed. And I liked how political it was, even though it was hardly political.

20:51And yeah, I was really unenthused by most of the looks. Yeah, I agree about the men. I thought Coleman Domingo looked really good in Valentino and he has incredible style. I agree. I think there's also a lot of conversation in the, the sort of Hollywood trades about the Emmys being at the wrong time of year, because you're essentially like, for instance, the bear, they were voting on this, a season previous to the one that just ran. Cause it's all like messed up. And why don't they just do this in January with the rest? Yeah, and then you could kind of move through. I thought the two Dior looks, Rashida Jones in Dior and Sam Nivola in Dior, I thought they both looked good.

21:40And it was like a big improvement from the Venice, the beginning. Jonathan Anderson, he hasn't really been a red carpet designer. A lot of the Loewe stuff was just like, he did custom stuff, but a lot of times it would be runway. And so he's getting his footing. I thought that... What was that meme we were just looking at though, Mike, where it was like, it's pretty dangerous. Oh, God. That was me. I love J.W. I love J.W. I love that. But like that photo of Josh O 'Connor, who is one of the most beautiful people on the planet, wearing that big bow tie and looking. It was wrong. That look was wrong.

22:19That look was wrong. I think everybody knows that look was wrong. I live for those moments. It's like, I think that's kind of what I miss a bit is like the sort of, I think everyone's so anxious on that level of celebrity and how like, you know, their image bounces around the world so quickly and that they obviously, you know, they all have these stylists and everything. And I miss a bit of like the way when they used to dress themselves and like when you look like red carpet imagery from like the nineties and stuff. And it's just like, but use a stylist and have fun. Like what Meg Salter did.

22:53That was cool. yeah well who is she wearing she wore a hanes t-shirt levi's jeans and a piece of duct tape that said ceasefire on her her purse i agree and like she also just had like two big roles i get that she can be kind of cocky but um i thought it was cool yeah yeah i also thought um there was someone else who oh like the thing is not everyone is chloe 70 not everyone has chloe 70s legs not everyone is cool and has a sense of style but I do think she just always looks great even if you don't like it like she looks amazing and it's something to talk about I thought Hunter Schaefer looked beautiful she wore McQueen but like generally there is just um I think it's honestly I think connected also to the over the overturned and creative directors and everybody just sort of finding their footing and then also people changing stylists and the so there's like not only are the teams internally at these big brands changing but the styling teams of the celebrities are changing too and so there's so much change and also like suddenly the stylists have different relationships with the vip teams at it's like a new vip team you have to learn and like there's just um it it also does just it did not feel and I guess I'm never there for the Emmys I think I have been previously like it's been I've I've been home already and do you go to red carpet no no no but I am occasionally I was invited to an Emmys part like a big Emmys party this year and I'm usually invited to the one in particular but the last year I remember I was just too tired like that's I never go anyway but also I think to your point calling out Chloe and Hunter Dara and Haley their respective stylists are like really powerful like creative forces that I think exists also in like a very like fashion world that they're not like celebrity stylists so I think that's also like there's something really synergistic with those pairings and like that sort of relationship they have and but also like where the minds are at with the conversation to I find the clothing that I think is really quite cool yeah yeah I think I don't know that mourning people dressing themselves and not having a stylist I don't like I'm glad they have stylists like glad they have people to help them but I do think that kind of it's all homogenized and it's all billboard and people are just getting paid too much to make choices rather than have opinions and I don't know I like that like Lisa the k-pop girl from from yeah she looked cool she looked it was a crazy thing it was a Luke and like yeah it was made by some designer I never heard of like in in a way that like uses the opportunity of red carpet to have fun totally but I also wish that there was more just direct translation of like from runway to red carpet and not these like looks that were made in like a Louis Vuitton atelier that I'm like what is this like yeah yes I agree I mean I think the challenge is when the stuff on the red carpet doesn't fit anyone yeah yeah which may be an issue at that particular place and also like is like very looks amazing on the runway but then it only looks good on Jennifer Connelly so they're just like here's a pretty dress.

26:28I mean, I thought that Selena Gomez looked real pretty in her red dress. I was like, I'd wear that. But, um, but it's not as, it's not as fun as say, um, who did I think, who else did I think look good? It was a real challenge. I was like, I need to find a few people to mention Ortega. Oh, yes. And the McQueen. Yeah. I gotta say the McQueen red carpet has been, I'm not McQueen. Oops. I think it was McQueen. No, it was, um, it was Givenchy Sarah Burton. Yes. I got to say the Sarah Burton red carpet has been killer. Like it's just been so good. I think it's better. I think it's going to help her sell clothes.

27:11Like every single look has been the custom stuff they've done has been amazing. This was a runway look that she, they did a skirt instead of pants. but I think that the Givon I thought Hunter Schafer wore McQueen and that looked good too but the Givon she has just been like absolutely murdering on the red carpet I think it's the best thing that she's done I think it was better than the runway show like it just she's always been good at that exactly she's really good like her like lineage and like at McQueen and like what she was doing there it makes so much sense that she could like do a spectacular job at red carpet dressing yeah I I think obviously there was tons of Giorgio Armani looks.

27:51I thought Leslie Bibb looked very good. She said she couldn't breathe, but it was worth it. I thought it was a very cool dress. Wait, was that the one with like the sandwich board? Yes. A lot of that. Yeah. But, and they are sort of the, he was like the king of this. He created the red carpet essentially. I'm curious. I have a big piece in Monday's line sheet about his will and how he's like, not only am I going to control this forever, but I'm going to tell you who is allowed to buy the company. So he does want to sell the majority of the business, but he wants the foundation to have voting control.

28:37And he also had preference of who he would like to be allowed to buy it. I think that the way the will reads, you can have, there is additional information, but like you can, if they don't want it, they can go to other bidders. But I thought it was fascinating. What is your all's relationship to Armani and what did you think about like how this all went down as people who are building your own independent fashion businesses? I mean, I was reading the will this morning and thinking like, wow, the last laugh, like he really got it. Like the goat, the guy that retained independence this whole time had a plan to sell it after he died.

29:21And I think there was just something about reading it that made me really respect him so much and how forward facing he was from day one and how he like retaining the control and also like looking towards the future. in a way that it's so easy to get caught up in the little things of running a business or your brand or branding or the expression of like, what is relevant now? What is the trend I'm going to ride on, whatever? And how he, more than anyone, was able to navigate decade over decade this way and into after his death, already planned, how it's going to work. Yeah, I think it's interesting to think about the way he manages power posthumously and how, as such a powerful independent brand, and his depth of controlling how it existed throughout his lifetime, to still exert that upon the C-suite people, being like, this is who I actually trust.

30:30How much do I trust you guys, knowing that maybe there'd be other voices that would need to come in i think is an interesting move i think it's a bit i think part of it's a bit sad in the way that it's like okay so it's all about everything kind of like glomming together more and more so like okay like another brand for like the lvmh like portfolio is like it's like of course lvmh is like very good at what they do but also i don't see why armani wasn't very good at what he did independently And just I think the more things kind of become siloed, I think is a bit depressing. Totally. But do you think like this is all he wrote the will with the attempt to just start a bidding war?

31:16Maybe. That's a question. But then there's also the question of did he already have a deal with LVMH in the back that we don't know about? Like that's there. I was talking to an executive who worked there for a long time, a long time ago and said there was always this this thing when when they were working there that they got really, really close with LVMH. And then Armani was like, no, I want one billion more than I said. And LVMH was like, no. And so that didn't happen. Then there's also, there's like other, there's independent people who have been supposedly trying to do it and to buy it. And I think, look, I think there's a couple things.

32:01One is, there's an emotional thing to this. Like, I'm sure Mr. Arnaud reveres Mr. Armani. I know the Arnaud family really respects Mr. Armani and what he built. And I think if this was 15 years ago, it would be a no-brainer. I think the difference now is Armani is a clothing business. You cannot tack on, they do have luxury handbags. I'm sure they sell many of them, but it is not a handbag business. You cannot tack a clothing business on. You cannot tack a successful handbag business onto a clothing business anymore. It just doesn't, like the way they do with Dior. It just doesn't work anymore.

32:38Like it's not, it's hard enough with a handbag business itself. It's just not, there's the customers changed. And LVMH's acquisitions at that level, so this would be like a several billion dollar. They do, I think, two billion a year in sales or something, 2.3. This would be like a seven billion dollar acquisition or something, which is not nothing. It's not the biggest they've ever made, but it's not nothing. Every one of their like very large acquisitions in the last recent years, it's Remova, Laura Piana, Tiffany, Balgary. they've all been about expertise in a very high margin business so like fine jewelry knit and cashmere and um that sort of wardrobing and then luggage like remova doesn't really have a competitor so i think practical wise i don't see a world where lvmh is like i think it's a good idea to buy Armani well I guess sorry men's tailoring perhaps like you know like what its foundation is like oh don't they have Bill Ruti or is that or but like I'm thinking like they don't really have that sort of so many LVMH brands in my mind are more um women's focused where Armani I think is leads as a men's wear brand and of course women's wear is like really big in it but I think from like its origin point so maybe it is some sort of like positioning on that form That's a good point.

34:07And maybe I will add that into my copy since we haven't published Monday's line sheet yet. But I think the challenge with that is, and it's true when you look at like, if you look at Brunello Cuccinelli, you look at Xenia, you look at these businesses that are performing very well. I think the challenge with that is they have Laura Piana, which is, I'd say, kind of satisfying the Brunello Cuccinelli customer or the Hermes customer. And then the other thing is like men's tailoring has become a thing that is a fashion thing. It's not a daily. It's not the way people wear. So what the business prospects are in terms of growth would be.

34:52and the menswear market's growing very quickly and there's like a bigger customer there than ever but the growth of like suiting it's like dior has a huge men's suiting business so like you know but it's a good point i think but i think it's also like my boyfriend is like um praised at like the altar of armani and he's like uh works in the art world and a lot and i see too with a lot of his peers like they want to wear armani like it like it has a value to them that they would never want to wear like a Dior suit. They're into fashion, but they would never want like Laura or Bruno. Like Giorgio Armani has some sort of caliber of importance and expertise.

35:31And I think what it signifies in the way like brands translate and like, you know, the symbolism of them, I think there's a lot to be said there in like what the future growth of Armani can be. But I think that's niche crew. It's like this American psycho 90s, Like, like it's beloved. I hear you. And I know Peter will will die on that altar. But it still is not. I hear what Lauren's saying. It's not them. I mean, like the guy that won the Emmy last night, his suit was made by figs. Like, oh, my God. That's what you need to talk about. Noah Wiley. Noah Wiley. Please contact me. I need I need Matt Bellany.

36:14I need to message Matt Bellany. if you listen to Puck, if anybody knows Noah Wiley, if you know Matt Bellany, if you listen to the town, if you read what I'm hearing and you only you read line sheet, whatever, I need someone to reach out to Noah Wiley immediately. We need to do an intervention. I understand why you wore figs because figs is a very cool scrubs brand and he was trying to be cute. This is a very good looking man. He should have been wearing Armani, speaking of like he should have been wearing Armani or Brunella. Seth Rogen looked amazing in Etro. Congrats to Etro. Congrats to Seth Rogen for having good taste.

36:51I was devastated. This very handsome man who I have had a crush on since I was 12 years old or whatever, or seven years old, whenever ER came on. Please do not wear a Figs. This is your moment and you're wearing a Figs tuxedo. I'm very upset I'm done you please speak no I'm glad but it like just frankly if it didn't wasn't in the byline I would have just hit next it was a whatever suit and I think a lot of the intents and purposes of men suiting is to be whatever suits like I think a lot of money is behind just looking kind of bland. I agree. I agree.