Cigarette Wishes & Charvet Dreams

0:00Whether you're renting or paying a mortgage, one of your biggest monthly expenses should be working harder for you. That's where BILT comes in. BILT is the membership for where you live that rewards you with points on every housing payment, wherever you live. BILT started by rewarding rent, but now you can earn points on mortgage payments too. So every time you make a housing payment, you're earning points you can redeem toward flights with partners like United or Hyatt, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and more. Because I travel so much for work, I use my points toward a hotel stay, anything that turns a regular month into something to look forward to.

0:39And one of the most underrated perks, the neighborhood concierge. They can help you lock in restaurant reservations, book workout classes, or discover new local spots, all while you're being rewarded at more than 45 ,000 partners. It really does feel like an added layer to your day-to-day life. It's simple. Being a renter or a homeowner is better with Built. Join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com slash fashion. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash fashion. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. This episode is sponsored by Macy's. At Macy's, sometimes the accessory is the outfit.

1:23Spring fashion accents are the fastest, simplest way to refresh your look. Small, intentional updates that instantly make everything feel new again. And Macy's makes it easy to complete your style with the season's trendiest, chicest pieces. Fine re-bag at Macy's where secondhand designer bags, including iconic Birkins are available for a fraction of the price. It's luxury that's better for your wallet and the planet. Discover spring handbags from Coach, Guess, and Ralph Lauren in lighter textures, softer shapes, and playful colors. Soft leather boho bags transition effortlessly from denim to flowy dresses, while slouchy suede and east-west silhouettes add fresh modern texture.

2:06Jewelry is the perfect low stakes way to experiment with trends. Layered necklaces bring depth to simple outfits and metal band watches paired with bangles and cuffs create a polished stack. And don't forget fragrance, the unseen accessory that speaks before you're seen. Explore spring scents like YSL Libra, Berry Crush, Carolina Herrera Jasmine, Joe Malone, Peach Blossom Cologne, Miu Miu Fleur de L 'Aix, and Byredo Gypsy Water. Refresh your spring style at Macy's.com or in-store today.

2:46Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Vanity Fair's Marissa Meltzer. We're talking Courreges, Charvet, French pharmacies, the fake news about smoking, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I hope you're having a great week. This week in Line Sheet, I have a significant update on the search for the next editor of T Magazine. It's a lot of great little nuggets. It's really fun reporting the story because it's generally a positive story about media. I'm enjoying covering it. I also share the news of the new Courreges designer.

3:27It's a very interesting person and rank my 10 favorite fashion campaigns of the season. Honestly, not easy to do. Most are pretty bad. Even the good ones are actually not all that good. But that's a chat for another day. Right now, I am excited by all the great fashion exhibitions happening in Europe, especially right now. There's Dior and Alaya at the Alaya Foundation in Paris. I'm going to check that out this weekend. Helmet laying exhibit at MAC in Vienna. I don't think I'm going to make that. And I'm extremely sad. Like my whole point of honestly moving to Paris for this time was to go to that exhibit.

4:03I don't think I'm going to have time. I want to go so badly, but I just don't know. And then the Antwerp 6 at the Fashion Museum in Antwerp. I feel like I'm going to I can make that. Fingers crossed. And then there's the Dries Van Noen Museum is opening this month in Venice. So I don't think I'm going to get there on this chunk of trip. But like if someone's to go with me for like a day, call me or don't actually. And I hope you enjoy this catch up with Marissa. We miss her. It's almost Q2. So it's time to have Marissa there.

4:39Marissa Boutzer, welcome back to Fashion People. I'm so happy to be here again. I'm happy to be here in the context, not that I don't love promoting myself and my book, But I'm happy to be here, not on a book tour and just like free forming it, just giving my unsolicited commentary. I agree. Also, you've had a lot of bangers over at the VF, the new VF, Mark Guaducci. He's doing it. So I thought it would be nice to have you on. our guest was supposed to be a Miss Kazzy David I don't want to embarrass her but she was not able to make it but I do have one quick thing that I wanted to discuss with her because it was all over the internet in my college group chat Instagram brought it up and I was like oh I can just ask her about it and if she ends up coming on the pod at a later date we will discuss it with her but have you seen her thing she wrote about it on her sub stack I haven't read the whole book so I I don't know if it's in there, but about like men can all be considered these three superheroes and then you combine it with a sport.

5:48No, but I don't doubt it. Is she talking about straight men specifically? Well, I don't know, because like the three superheroes are Spider-Man, Batman and Superman, which like in another world could have all been gay. Right. Right. And then what are the sports? You pick. That's the funny thing. It's like one person could be Batman and wrestling. Ooh, okay. What is your husband? I had someone in mind for that. What's from her? I think he is Superman and like a real, like, I don't know, like being on the internet.

6:39I don't have any straight men in my life, so I don't think I can. He played baseball, but like that's too common. Like she did very funny sports. Okay. I think my dad would be like, my dad is easy because he is sporty. My dad would be like Batman plus surfing. Oh, yeah, that's good. Someone was something plus surfing in her. Oh, Chris Hemsworth. Oh, yeah. Not, I mean, yeah. Chris Hemsworth actually is my father. So, yeah, very close. I think he was maybe Superman plus. Yeah, he was Superman plus surfing. I get that. It's a fun game. I was really excited to chat with her and impress my college friends, but she couldn't make it.

7:29I'm glad. I'm happy to be plan B. Well, you know, you're always plan A and I'd have you on every week if I could. I am going second to Kazi David is wonderful. We love her book, Delusions. Please buy it. It's very cute. My kid, when it arrived in the mail, thought it was cake and tried to lick it. It was very cute. How was the Vanity Fair party? Did you have a good time? Yeah, I did. It's a real... I'm like you, you know, not to make my life sound too glamorous, but we've both been in rooms with a lot of famous people. um, before, but this was like, you know, the first person I saw, I think was Mick Jagger.

8:13And the second was Al Pacino. And then, you know, it's just everywhere you look, it's pretty, it's pretty wild. Oh my God. I love it. It's so fun. It's, you looked amazing. And I love the sort of I'll take photos of you from it. It looked like you all, the team had a really good time too. It looked really fun. I don't like to be heartwarming ever because I have a dark heart, But like the most fun part was feeling like we were in kind of like L.A. summer camp and honestly seeing Mark have fun. And like, you know, there was like dancing. There was like a 2.30 a.m. group photo. Like there were In-N-Out burgers.

8:53Like that part was truly fun. It like takes the it's like the inner summer camp part of me. But now I'm back to having like a dark and cold heart that just thinks about things I want to buy and books I need to read. It's very important to have a little summer camp in you. It was fun. Yeah, it's good. And then you can go back to not caring. Yeah, like there's no better team building, but also just, yeah, seeing celebrities in the wild. and some people I know like um you know former fashion people guest Tish Weinstock was there looking gorgeous big fan yeah I was thinking about her that like I'm trying to give me to be around her more she's wonderful and also the next day not to brag but she did dm me and told me my outfit and my hair looked good so I felt great about that Derek Blasberg I'm trying to think of other fashion people guests Derek Blasberg was there but we didn't talk I saw him from like afar.

9:55Connor Ives was there, which is cool. Yeah. And like a lot of people wore him, which I loved everyone that wore him. I'm in having a big piano shawl moment. I bought one whose price I'm not willing to share from Gallery Estrada. It's probably I think it's like 20s. It's like a beautiful sort of like champagne meets marigold color. I almost wore it to my Christmas party, but it was like my way of wearing it was just sort of like wrap it and pin it and I was like that's gonna last 10 minutes anyway Marissa I have a shopping update for you and for everybody who listens did you buy more I am not gonna no I'm no I'm like I'm really yeah you're down you bought a jacket of all the people like I know how much this jacket's cost honey I'm really done No, but what I did buy.

10:54So I went to this vintage store here that I am not going to name on here. I want to talk to you about it offline. I'm sure you've been there, but it's just too, I'm not ready to share. Is it in the sixth? No. Okay. It's in the third, I believe. Okay. Or the tenth. Okay. But basically I've been looking for a Yoji blazer. Oh, yes. I've heard of that. Yes, I've heard of this. And because I want to wear it with a pencil skirt. Like it is definitely Carolyn Busset coded, but like in my way. Yeah, of course. You're a little more in 80s than late 90s. Minimalism. Agreed. Yes, I'm more 80s. 50s to 80s is my trajectory.

11:39Anyway. 80s does 50s. They did that silhouette so well. Exactly, yes. So I have been looking and very nice people online have been sending me and just nothing seemed right. And I was like, I really wanted to be special and like a little more romantic than I would normally wear. Like a nipped waist kind of situation? It is a nipped waist. I'll send it to you. It has a little bit. So I go to the shop. I'm like, do you have any Yoji blazers? He's like, yes, I have one. Or jackets. Because it's not really a blazer. It's perfect. And then I got a suede Alaya skirt to wear with it. And then I got a Yoji dress that like, I don't even know where I'm going to wear it.

12:25You're in jail. I, I, it was, it was not, none of the stuff, all this stuff was like, most of it was under $500. Oh, okay. Like it was really affordable. This place, that's why I don't want to say the name. And I'm not like that. I love to share. I'm very generous, but I just like, this place is so good. And I, I just. I think I know what you're talking about, but we can compare notes later. Yeah. I love that for you. I've been similarly in jail because the last time I was in Paris, not only did I buy furniture from Emma Steinitz at the flea market that I bought in late January that I believe has just hit stateside and I just paid tariffs on, but then I also ordered a bunch of custom bespoke charvet, which you also have done.

13:16Yes. I sound like such a psycho. I promise I have a budget. And so just moved. When you move, you have to buy a lot of new stuff. You need to have a like a little bit of a transformation. Also, you came from L.A. where no I was just in L.A. Like no one wears anything. I wore five one sevens in a sweatshirt to work one day. and I was like, and I went to a preview of this thing that Judith Tuitu is doing at this auction house and I was fully embarrassed. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm so underdressed. And so, yeah, that's part of it. In Paris and that's about it. Exactly, yes. Yeah, like even on the weekend, I'm like making an effort.

14:02Which I love. Yeah, I just had to get a couple little things. Now I'm really done. Oh, wow, I'm excited. I'm going to be in Paris in May and can't wait to see what sort of... I'm going to go to pick up my Charvet shirts and then can't wait to see what other... I think there's going to be an Alaya issue. There might be some Chanel going on. We don't... We've got a kind of delights once I'm full. I know that I paid off my furniture. Yeah, we need to get you some sort of deal of something. Look, it's just... That's my whole thing. I'm like, what else can I do? Yeah, I'm just in the... It's like, what can I do to just, you know...

14:39We're all getting through world events in the only way we know how. And mine is through decorating my body in my apartment. I need to do the apartment someday. Did you see that? Speaking of decorating things, did you see Nordic Knots raised$100 million? The lead on it was imaginary. I think it's a brilliant investment. I do, too. I think it's really smart. People are always recommending it to me. It's not for you. It's not for me. I am, I, you know, as I've told to people, and this is what, this is the kind of thing that if it sounds charming and makes sense, you'll like me. And if it sounds like not, then you will hate me.

15:21But like, it's actually cheaper to just go to Morocco and buy some rugs in Marrakech or whatever than it is to buy like the actual new rug. But I understand that people want neutrals. They want to be able to buy something. they want a specific size um good for them here's the thing for me as a person who's never bought a rug this is my opinion i have looked in nordic knots a lot and i think if like if we need a rug it's some actually i you know what i did buy a rug for fritz's room from um stone what's cold cold um cold something that does like modern like kind of blobby. Oh yeah yeah I forget what it's called.

16:08It's like cutesy. It's like a little bit Memphis groupy. It's a little bit five years ago but like perfect for a kid. Yeah and it's perfect for a kid's room. Yeah. I the thing I have spent a lot of money on is quadrat fabric for stuff. Wow. Like we because I really love the Raph Simmons collaboration and like they're generally we love I love their materials and things but I think the thing about Nordic knots that's interesting is that it's for like rich people but also for of it like normal rich people meaning what what we all consider upper upper middle class or middle class but everyone else in the world thinks is rich yeah um but I think it like even if you're really if you like modernist stuff like that's a go-to I if we were buying rugs I would immediately go there because we we like mid-century we like modernist we like you know I would at least consider it and I think the pricing is really really good because that's the other thing the quality is high yeah it's good for people that want something that's a specific color or shape or something like that that's not how yeah my mind works but I like I appreciate it I actually need I kind of want like a big sort of plain bedroom rug that like takes up most of the bedroom and I was looking on Nordic knots but I think I need something slightly weirder.

17:41Yeah, you have more, I don't want to say traditional but maybe just like you have, you go deeper in the archives. Like I don't really look at stuff before 1930 when I'm buying home stuff. I don't know. I grew up with like, yeah, I don't, my parents didn't have like new furniture. Yeah. Or at least not that I really, there was a lot of like hand-me-downs from like, you know, grandparents and stuff like that. So I don't know where I got my taste in furniture. I think it was honestly just from magazines. I mean, me too. It definitely wasn't from my house. We also didn't have new cars really. Or like there was always like older, you know, I don't know.

18:24I just, my mom wears antique jewelry. I don't know. I'm just kind of a like, I'm an old person. Yeah, no, you're a nouveau. You're not. My art is very contemporary. I wear a lot of antique jewelry, but my rings are antique. But yeah, it's interesting to think about where people get their furniture taste versus their fashion taste and whether or not their fashion taste would sort of parallel it. I don't think it always does. No, not at all. I'm sometimes shocked. I remember once going to Bobby Brown's home to interview her. And she has really specific tastes because she owns a hotel and people have seen her aesthetic, but it does not match what I thought it would be.

19:16It was much more heavy and masculine. and there was like a room of like paintings of presidents and stuff like that. Oh, interesting. It was great, but it was not like the equivalent of her makeup to me. Yeah, we can move on. I want to talk about your Charvet story actually, but yeah, it's interesting. Like I don't wear a lot of color, but our house has a ton of color in it. So I don't know what that indicates, but I love color in the house. Me too. like lots of lots of color i have i have pops but i don't i really only wear black i will never have i mean your house is i will never have a wall painted anything but white but that's also i grew up with white walls yeah no i agree on that too it's too complicated once you color i when i moved to new york i painted my walls of my rental dark gray oh god that's my idea of hell i can't And then I made all the fixtures hot pink.

20:21Oh, my God. Gray and hot pink is very 80s, actually, to me. I'm very 80s. I know you are very 80s. I know you are. I don't know what I am. I guess I'm like 1880s. 1780s.

20:40Get in the game with the college-branded Venmo debit card. Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance. Just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit card at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA. Select schools available. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life.

21:19Because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.

21:43So speaking of 1800s, when was Charvet founded? Charvet, French shirt maker, was founded in the 1830s. And tell me, so you recently did a big feature on them for Vanity Fair. There has been a lot, a lot of ink spilled, virtual ink, or I don't even know how to say it. a lot of interest. One of those little pixels, pixels formed on Charvet recently. Well, mine is in ink and in print, but you know, not to brag. So, yes. So tell me like as a, as a Charvet stan, as someone who really gets it. And I just went, we were talking about, I went with Sarah de Mevalex to Charvet to, I didn't get a full custom.

22:31I got the like custom, but it doesn't take, they don't like, Like it's not the crazy custom. Yeah, I think they call it demi-custom. Basically you can get like there's off the rack and then there's ones where it's off. It's like the off the rack fit, but you just get it in a custom pattern or custom fabric. And then there's what you and I did, which is like custom finishings, like custom length, all that kind of stuff. And then there's fully bespoke where they're like making a pattern to your body. Yeah. So what, how did you approach your, since you are a Charvet expert, how did you approach covering it for Vanity Fair?

23:17And what did you learn that you didn't know before? Well, it was, it's something that I'd wanted to write about them for a long time just because I shop there and I'm fascinated. They have this kind of like big, rambling, slightly like shambolic, but beautiful space on Place Vendome in Paris. And in my like earliest moments of talking to Mark about the job here at Vanity Fair, we bonded over our love of Charvet. He wears it all the time, which I love. and he had told me that Miles Pope, who's an editor here, had, like, already been sort of, like, mentioning the story to them. So it was, like, months of kind of, like, finessing and emailing and finally, you know, them being okay with it because the Colbon siblings who own Charvet are very kind of press-averse and they've only, you know, they barely really done any big profiles.

24:21And so kind of what I was asking, which was really like into the archives and to talk to them at length was not something that they were very super receptive to at first. But, you know, I have a way of like breaking people down. And then so then I was in Paris in January for several days and just kind of like camped out and sat down with them for a long conversation and then just was at the store. getting fitted for a shirt and also just like hanging out at the store for days. And I bought a lot of stuff. And yeah, what did I learn? I mean, Charvet has been around for so long that they have like the original patterns from Charles de Gaulle.

25:11They have, they still have a fax machine that I think is still in use. They have like so many things that they used to make that are just sort of like chocolates. And they used to make shoes and, you know, all of these things. I don't know. The whole thing is just fascinating, the idea of a shirt maker that's been around for like almost 200 years. And, you know, Glynnis, who is my friend, Glynnis Magnickel, wonderful author, is going to Paris, I think, next week. And she has like a 1920s Charvet shirt. that she's bringing and made an appointment to get like recreated. Oh my God, that's awesome.

25:56I know. So it's just, I think there's, it's classic. Their shirts are classic, but they also have like a certain idiosyncratic element. They have, I mean, I'm wearing right now like a silk printed scarf, of which I have a few and wear all the time, even though I'm not really like a silk printed scarf person. Um, and, you know, they have the like silk knit ties and belts and they've always kind of had this like, you know, government upper class clientele. But then they've also always had these sort of like intellectual cultural types, like my ideal man, Bayashel Bernard-Henri de V, my favorite public intellectual, who is like known for wearing his shirts like button to his belly button, unbutton to his belly button, like gets custom ones as Charvet.

26:54I love it. You know, like, but so does Sofia Coppola. So, you know, Chloe Sevigny is like photographing their slippers, which are probably the most Instagram famous thing that they make. Yeah, I'm wearing socks and one of those braided belts today. They're so good. It is an interesting, yeah, it's such an, it's an, it's an interesting company because it's, of course the stuff is not cheap, but it is still like priced. It's not price designer. It's priced. You can tell they're pricing it what, what they think it's supposed to be and have like a okay margin or whatever. And, um, it's just such a special experience and I hope that it doesn't get screwed up.

27:39Like, I think everyone there is so nice. It's such a it's nice to have to wait for things like I don't know. It's just a really special thing. So I'm glad that you got to write your, you know, the definitive on Charvet. Yeah, I mean, I think some of their reticence makes me think that they won't change that much. I mean, they own it. You know, I'm sure they've been approached about selling. They have not. They're not opening another location. They're not, you know, branching out into, you know, like sub lines or anything that you would sort of associate with like venture capital flowing in or something like that.

28:18So I don't know. I have I have high hopes that they you know, the more things change in the world, the more Charvet remains the same, which I love. I agree so one more Paris update from you you also did recently wrote an essay on the sort of talking about things staying the same there's always newness at the at the Paris pharmacies and you are sort of the foremost expert on what to buy at these things at this point what can you name one thing because we have a couple news items to get through Can you name one thing that you recommend everyone buy from the French pharmacy the next time they go to Paris or online if they trust that?

29:03Yeah. Bon Ponton. It's a diaper cream. And it's the best thing I've ever used on my terminally chapped lips. It kind of goes on as an oil, but then like a cream and just sinks in fast. And I've turned so many people, a dermatologist in France got me into it. And then, yeah, I've turned so many people onto it that, you know, like a friend of mine keeps one in every room in her house. I have them in every bag I own. It's also cheap. It's great. I put it on like in the winter when my skin is getting irritated, when I'm sick, when my nose is getting red, like on a scrape or something like that. Sorry, I'm not laughing at you.

29:49I just got a hilarious text from my husband. You're reading text messages while I'm opining on French products? No, I'm listening to you, but it's 7.01 p.m. and we're supposed to be eating dinner and he just sent me a funny text about our life together. Do you want to read it to the class? Go on. Should I be teacher style? No, I'll tell you afterwards. That's the one product that I recommend to everyone. It'll make your life better. Amazing. Well, thank you for cluing us in. Okay, one thing I wanted to do, another, we're really French themed today by accident. You know what? That's great. That fits both of us.

30:31It's true. I wanted to chat with you about, Courreges has announced its new designer. It's this guy who came from, he worked for Phoebe Philo for a long time at Celine, and then he worked at J.W. Anderson, then he went back to Phoebe Philo, And then he was under Daniel Lee, another Phoebe Philo ex-employee at Burberry. And his job was called head of ready-to-wear show. So it's like head of the clothes that they make for the runway show. His name is Drew Henry. And I'm excited because this guy, I've actually written about him before. Is he British? I believe so. in writing about the Phoebe Philo business because he was there really early and ended up leaving for Burberry, blah, blah, blah.