Design Matters

0:00Anyone who knows me knows I am a big believer in therapy, but it's not always so easy to access. Sometimes insurance doesn't cover it, and even when it does, finding a therapist who takes your insurance can be tricky. Rula changes that completely. They work with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just$15 per person. It's a more realistic way to access therapy. And instead of leaving you to figure it out alone, and Rula gives you a curated list of licensed therapists who are in network and aligned with your specific needs. They've also eliminated the usual friction. No wait lists, no complicated process.

0:37You can find someone accepting new patients and book quickly. And Rula continues to support you along your journey, helping ensure your care is actually effective. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com slash fashion to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash fashion. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Listen up. I need your attention for a moment.

1:12Chevy Drive Chicago has a massive opportunity for you. They're giving you the chance to win the Chevy you actually want. There's no mystery here and no luck of the draw. Surprise, prize. you choose the Chevy. You pick it, you win it, and you drive it. Chevy's lineup is built for whatever the road throws at you. If you need a truck that's as dependable as they come, the Silverado is ready to work hard and play even harder. If you've been thinking about making the switch to electric, the Equinox EV makes it a seamless transition. Quiet, powerful, and big on tech features. From the capability of the Equinox to the striking design of the Blazer, there's a Chevy that fits your life perfectly.

1:48Whether you want gas or electric, the choice is entirely yours. Entering is simple. Just head to ChevyDriveChicago.com to sign up. While you're there, check out the Chevy Truck Month incentives and find your local dealer. Chevy Drive Chicago, official partner of the Chicago Bears. Don't just dream about it. Go win it at ChevyDriveChicago.com.

2:13Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Kelsey Keith, design writer and editor and author of the great newsletter, Ground Condition. She's here to discuss fashion's takeover of Milan Design Week, Luca DeMeo's plan for caring, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I hope you're having a great week. I am totally crazed. I'm at Salone, the Milan design fair, and we are having a dinner with Shop My tonight at Sandy, one of my favorite restaurants in Milan. I really know about five. So it's not saying much, but it's it's pretty great.

2:55I really, really love it. It's just been a wild ride. It's so different from Fashion Week. It's much less regimented. It's less scheduled as a person who needs structure. I'm just learning I think Monday was tough and I got through it now I'm going to just enjoy myself and Kelsey and I are going to get into it but be sure to check out Monday's issue of Line Sheet where I've got news of glamour layoffs Saks Global layoffs plus like an interesting reconfiguration at Saks Global about how they work also a big report on a big report on LVMH that was published in the French press, I sort of fact-checked it with my own sourcing.

3:38And it was a really big article in this weekly magazine in France. And like everyone in France is talking about it. So I sort of dissected it and then also fact-checked it. I also took a look inside Caring, the owner of Gucci, which is in the midst of a turnaround. Tuesday, there will be more Salone dish, including some T Magazine stuff. But let's get going. Kelsey Keith, welcome to Fashion People. Hi, Lauren. Thanks for having me. I'm so happy to have you. So we are, where are we? Because I don't want to have to pronounce it in my terrible American voice. We are in Milan. We're here for Design Week, both of us.

4:21And so happy to have you with us. So a lot of people know this Milan Design Week is like Salone de Mobile. Is that how you would say it? But that's just like one part of it, right? Yes. There's an entire design week happening outside of the official fair, which is Salone di Mobile. Okay. Salone di Mobile. I'm not going to try that anywhere else. So you are a design writer and editor and your current gig is, do you want to explain it? Yeah, I am the creative director of Miller Knoll, which is the parent company and the enterprise business that surrounds Herman Miller Knoll and 12 other design brands, including Design Within Reach and a few others.

5:19and prior to that you were an editorial and that's how we know each other we also have many mutual friends including one hannah fidel who who occasionally listens to fashion people i think she'll listen to this one the most mentioned person on fashion people perhaps maybe one of one of for sure there is someone else who gets a lot of a lot of shout outs that I can't remember right now, but she does, she does get many, many mentions. But we have all these friends in common. You were an editor for an editorial editor for a long time at, at different, you were at Curbed, you were many places. You worked, did you work at Dwell also?

6:00Dwell, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes. And so this is your, what, eighth or ninth Salone or design week, or is it even more than that? Yes. I was trying to count, I believe, nine or 10. so the reason i'm having you on for people who are like what's going on this is a fashion podcast not that it has stopped me from talking about eating disorders and things in the past but um um is because i'm here for we're doing this dinner with shop my but i'm really here because there are so many big fashion installations and activations and projects being launched here because the world of fashion realized at some point that people were kind of gravitating towards furniture collecting rather than buying more handbags and so they decided to get in on the action here and it just feels like I thought I was gonna have a really good time and get to go to all these like exhibits and look at all these cool houses and I basically have just been going to fashion house events because I'm like well I need to see what they're doing for my job but can you Can you talk a bit about like how the design fair started when you or or what the design fair was like when you started coming 10 years ago versus now and how fashion plays a role in that?

7:19Sure. Well, once you've been to 10 of these, I think is when you start getting to go to the house museums and see cool exhibitions and stuff and you don't have to go with many press previews. Yeah. So we'll see you in a few. I haven't gone consistently every year. So probably my first Saloni was maybe 2011. And I think what's been interesting about that trajectory is it really has sort of traced like both all of the changes in media and also technology. I won't spend too much time on this, but just to give you a taste, when I was first coming as like a baby magazine editor to Salone, what you would do is you would go to the fair.

8:02You would spend several days there just like going through all the halls because basically everybody, all of the big companies were exhibiting there. That was like the place to be. And you would go to the press office and they would equip you with essentially this like red rolling suitcase that was labeled like eSalone. and you would take this thing and everybody would just load you up with press kits, like big paper press kits and like, you know, swag, I don't know, whatever it was that year. That's so funny. It was, yes. I mean, that sounds like ancient history and it sort of was, but you would need the rolling suitcase because there were so many of them and you would have to like check the bag and then you would take it back to your magazine office and then you would, everybody would spread out your press kits all over the conference table.

8:49And you would spend like two weeks going through the press kits and sort of separating out like the good from the bad and figuring out what you would put in the magazine three months later. Obviously, that changed completely from year to year. Very quickly, CDs, flash drives, QR codes changed totally. Also, I worked for when I worked for Dwell, it was a little bit ahead of its time, because even I think 2011 was pretty early to be talking about magazines existing like on different platforms. I think like a lot of I mean, a lot of comedy wasn't even fully digital at all at that point. So pretty quickly, my time in Milan turned into pounding the pavement for like 12 hours a day and then going back to like blog for the website at night, which was exhausting, but sort of exhilarating.

9:47I mean, you you're reporting all the time. So you I'm still you still do this. I've never stopped blogging. Never stopped blogging since 2010. Actually, I had a blog in Forbes called Find of the Day. Find of the Day. Still doing Find of the Day. Actually, I mean, you have a daily newsletter. You basically are. I do do Find of the Day, basically. when I have a shot, when we do the shoppies. But yeah, I'm still blogging anyway. You moved on like most people. But I mean, how media has interacted with Salone, like has test tracked with all these technology changes, I guess is what I'm saying. And so like, then social media entered the picture.

10:23And then even who gets access to design fairs like this has changed over time, because now it's definitely not just editors who are seeing it, you see lines out the door for entry to all of these things. And it's become a part of culture, which is obviously like why fashion is here activating too, because it's, it's just, there's a broader interest. Um, and it really is culture, but number two, you know, as we know, like editors aren't really the gatekeepers anymore and, um, influencers are here. It's, it's all over social media. I think the trend that I saw this year that was interesting that I had no part of, but I observed because it was all over my feed, was like the sort of Milan lifestyle posts on Instagram happening.

11:11You know, people would give their like top five places to eat Milan from like a local's perspective or something. Yeah. Which to me is interesting because again, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, people weren't really thinking of Milan as a lifestyle destination at all. Like you would say you're going to Milan and they're like, oh, I'm sorry. I wish you got to go to Florence or something. I mean, architecture people have always loved Milan. The built environment here is beautiful, but it's sort of a specialized taste. And now I think everybody's kind of hip to it as evidenced by the crowds here, which are just like insane now.

11:46Yeah, it's so interesting. I started going to Milan Fashion Week in 2010 and then I didn't go for a long time. And then when I started at Puck, well, actually a little before I started at Puck, I started coming again. And I'm like a big fan of like mid-century Italian. So I love the architecture here. And I love the way the city looks. But I would say from a food perspective, I have only the last two trips started to find things. There's one lunch place that I go to to work from. I work from there today. But it's called Higa. Are you going to blow it up? Okay. All right. Do you know it? No, there's one lunch place that is sort of like the if you know, you know spot that everyone goes to that's a little bit sceny but very small.

12:38And actually, you probably know it because Loro Piana bought it when the two owners retired. Oh, so what is it called? La Lotteria. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is this is just a little it's H-Y-G-G-E, the like cozy in whatever Scandinavian language that is. But it's like a little like third wave coffee place south of Duomo in that like sort of hip neighborhood. Yeah. And they have like avocado toast and stuff, but it's not cheesy. It's really nice. And they let me work from there and they're very nice. but that's honestly the only food place up until these last like three trips I've started to go to better places but usually I mean when you come for fashion week you just like go to um langosteria and maybe la loteria or that one biche those kinds of places which are all great but um but it's like I was never choosing where to go and now my favorites are ravello 18 which used to be right in Brera, but it moved.

13:48And I went today for lunch and it's still totally excellent. Great. Yeah. I've been to Ravello. It's really good. And they also have vegetables, which is good. Yes. And then Otimo Fiore, which is Sicilian. So not even close to Milanese. It sounds delicious. But yeah, I now have like a little list. But it is interesting. We also went, we did a little vintage shopping at Shop the Story. We did. We did. I am the biggest enabler of all time, but I'm still thinking about the dress I tried on. I'm probably going to go back again. I think you should. I mean, you're not an enabler. I was already like, yes, I'm buying two bags.

14:26And then I bought the dress also. Well, our friend Somsack, I sent him a picture of the dress and he was like, well, you know, people don't make dresses like that anymore. Oh my God. I know that's such a Somsak dress too. It's like, so it was, it's a nine, I believe nineties Mew Mew. And it, it like is so of the era of Isaac Mizrahi and Mark Jacobs and Prada and all of that stuff. And I could see him cause didn't Somsak work at Isaac Mizrahi? I think so. and it is so beautiful but it's very fun here. What do you think of what are the fashion stuff that you've gone to? Have you liked? Like what do you think of it so far?

15:11And like where do you think fashion could like do more interesting things? So I mean the observation with Fashion and Design Week is historically and meaning just like in the last several years, The three big players in Design Week, the people who are, you know, the houses that are taken really seriously by design people and whatever they exhibit here are Hermes, Prada, and the Webby.

15:39And Hermes just knocks it out of the park every time. I mean, their quality of their exhibitions is just kind of unparalleled. Obviously, that has a lot to do with budget, which helps. but it's beautiful and the craftsmanship is there and you know it's super central it's right in Bera so that's always a must see Prada you know the way that they activate around design week has a lot to do with art Fondazione Prada the museum opened 10 years 10 years ago exactly and then I think Prada Frames which is their conversation series I think started four years ago maybe and then this year they are doing something that's like loosely titled Prada Home with the Aster Gates but again that's pretty like art based so that's kind of that's very much like a Prada thing.

16:33Loewe isn't doing anything this year but because they were doing the craft prize that's obviously like catnip to design people and under Jonathan Anderson have been doing great things in the design sphere. So they were always, you know, kind of a must-see as well. In terms of other fashion things, I mean, it really runs the gamut. I would say a lot of exhibitions in Milan are either idea or thing, not necessarily idea and thing together and not necessarily a good idea. But, you know, it's the spectacle and it's like creating the culture of design more than necessarily like furniture itself, whereas I think it used to be purely about furniture.

17:19So that's changed over time.

17:24You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over$900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99 % of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of$946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025.

17:58Potential savings will vary. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B-plus life? It's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B-minus or a C-plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts. I went to the Prada I went to a bit of the Prada frames thing last night It was their performance part That was in What is the church that it was like Santa Maria della Grazie Yes Where the Last Supper is housed Yes, I did not get to see the Last Supper Because I was only there for the performance But it was pretty incredible to be in that church.

19:02I know it's 15th or 16th century. And then, you know, all of these people in amazing outfits and contemporary music. It's like, yeah, it's a vibe. It was incredible. And then I went to the Arkit thing that Layla Gohard did where she like designed a carousel and it had little seats that were I wish my kid was here for that. I thought that the Laura Piana, I went to their thing today where it was just basically their, the material that they used for scarves on tapestry. And I thought it was really beautiful. But there were so many things that I, and I thought the Jill Sander thing was cool where they like built this little reference library and they had music.

19:52Yes. in the background where the not a sound in the background so it sounded like you're in a library and they were like shh and they picked all these creative people who are sort of connected to that universe and with they did this with apartamento the the home brand home pub publishing yeah magazine and creative agency uh based in barcelona that one that one was i mean I didn't know what to think about it, but I think the execution was good. I mean, it had kind of this hall of mirrors effect. And I think the way that it was very low lit made people really engage with each of the book selections, which was nice because it is hard to get people to stop and actually read something, as we all know.

20:42Yeah. And it was also like, they they chose a mix of people like miyako balizzi did one but also sofia coppola so it was like newer people and then people who everybody knows but it was funny i forget who it was i think it was like a chinese artist picked clayton christensen's the innovators dilemma i was just like this is so funny to me um and i also thought the fact that it was low lit and then the sound was because you felt like you were in a library, people were being quiet in that area. I thought it was interesting. I don't know what it has to do with Salone, but I guess it's library design is something as well, and it was just a nice way for a brand like that that's not...

21:31It was a nice way to engage, but I'm looking forward to going to the Gucci thing tonight. There's Demna curated something. Me too. I will see you there. Great. Yeah, I talked to him a bit about it. And he said, what did he say? It was definitely not on the record. But it was it wasn't controversial. Basically was said he was trying to like really think about the history. They used to do a lot of collaborations with artists. Yeah. And he wanted it to be about the history of the house. So I'm interested to see. He's like a real student of archives and the Gucci. And I just went to the Gucci archive because I was at this caring.

22:10Capital Market Stay and Dumna was there. And so I'm interested in that. I mean, there's a lot to mine there. I think one thing to remember, too, about something like Salone, I mean, all of the all of the design fairs differ a little bit in this. This really started out as like a contract or commercial trade fair for that kind of furniture. And so when you're doing something like exploring the landscape of the home or something more domestic, that inherently is meant to appeal to a more consumer audience. And so you are opening it up to more people, which I mean, who can argue with that? That's cool.

22:45Totally. And I think now that my crazy day, we're recording this on Monday at 545. Now that I have like done all of my reporting for the week, other than my Salone reporting, I am going to try to enjoy it and go to like De Morey, the gallery and things like that, that I wanted to go to last night and went to the wrong location. and just I did like the double j did a very cool thing I didn't get to go to that sound bath oh damn I love a sound bath I got a facial I definitely gotten invited to that and I was like it's from it's because I live in California yeah I got a facial last week in Paris and there was a little sound bath and I was like yes I'm paying tiny tiny face but yeah it's like the thing for me that's been challenging is fashion week is very scheduled yes and also I know my place there so it's like I go this is chaos this is true chaos chaos and it's also more social like fashion week is like you go to a dinner I don't I don't go to a lot of parties during fashion week I'm like I was gonna ask you about that because people like stay out care it is very very social like I kind to your schedule is is later because people are expecting to stay out super late yeah i came to your party last night and i was like on sunday night and i was like this is cool and i actually raul lopez from loire was there and i was he's like no one knows i go to this it's so fun um it was really i'm gonna include include a mention in my report but um it's harder to kind of put in a box which is interesting and and says a lot about the and it's also a much more less uniform the thing about fashion is it really is like a lot of lemmings like a lot of followers and this feels much less uniform the kind of people the people that are like Raul being here the people that I've run into here just so many people from so many parts of my life like people that I've met in the last year but then also my best friend of 20 years came for fun to emmy who has emmy parsons who has a sandals line like yeah it's just so interesting in that way yes i ran into um i mean from san francisco i ran into um the architecture curator of sf moma last night and she was with um one of the owners of quince oh yeah fascinating who has amazing taste and so she you know comes because that's that's so interesting yeah like i ran into rachel sheckman who's a retailer and she's really good friends with sarah andelman of colette and they were together i mean obviously they're here but yeah it's just a fun it's it's also because usually the fashion weeks you have like you see the french people in france the italian people in italy everyone's here so it's like inner it's everyone together who would not normally like charlotte Sinead is here.

25:44She normally would not come to Milan Fashion Week because she shows at at in Paris. She does like a little showroom in Paris. So that part of it's interesting, too. Like all these worlds colliding. Really quickly on the business thing. And then I want to run a couple other things by you. Yeah, we were talking about this the other day. And these are all fashion and furniture design, all these things. these are product businesses and naturally especially products that are sort of like lasting these businesses are not going to grow like they used to because it's just we live in a different world it's much more virtual people don't need as much stuff they're in what they're spending on is often very disposable I think a lot of these fashion brands see home as a huge opportunity Like look at Armani Casa is a big business for them.

26:35Do you think it's a big opportunity? And like, where does the opportunity lie for these fashion brands to actually like Yves Saint Laurent has done some interesting things. They don't have any home. They like have collaborated with Charlotte Perignon, but but they don't have like a home line, but they could. Like you go into a Saint Laurent store show and it feels like the last show he did was in a glass box. It felt like we were in his home. Yes. And also Pierre Paulin, no? I think some of that as well. So do you think that it's worth investing? I remember when Phoebe Philo was still at Celine, they were planning to do a home collection.

27:16Really? She was eventually going to launch Men's in Home. Yeah, it was in the plans. Wow, that's good until. But I'm curious, as someone who really understands the home business and how people spend their money, even people with means versus art versus fashion. Do you think it's worth it for these brands to like, not just have a little exhibition here, but to develop home lines? I do, but there has to be a commitment to doing it well, because I think something as significant a purchase as like actual furniture, you can tell pretty quickly if it's made poorly, if it's bad, if it's uncomfortable, and if it doesn't work.

28:01But in terms of whether there's a market, yes. I mean, in general, I think with consumers, there's a bit of people don't necessarily always know what they want until you tell them. And I don't say that in an elitist way. I just mean that there is designers play a real role in this world and they solve problems even if that problem is you know making something beautiful that wasn't there before and um a lot of these designers have a great sensibility and and evolved taste and and no designer even a fashion designer is just interested in fashion right i mean you see that like the row for example i'm not a row shopper myself but i'm interested more in like the sort of aura of the row and actually the world that they've built rather than the clothes itself because the taste is interesting how they design the stores the antiques they collect the other like third party things that they're bringing in the art that they post so there's definitely appetite for that sort of thing i would say for sure i i totally agree i mean i i am a a shopper of the row unfortunately for my bank account not as much as i used to be but i have always appreciated their guidance on that kind of stuff yeah like seeing what furniture they have in the store seeing which like they had sharp they are the reason charve slippers have become so popular with americans because they had them in the store 10 years ago or whatever yeah and you can i mean bode's another good example yes he has created a world i think any any good brand is is really world building and you're not building a world unless you're considering environment, furniture, lighting, textiles.

29:53So I think those opportunities absolutely exist for fashion brands who are really committed to design. Now at McDonald's, wake up to a$4 breakfast meal deal. Wake up to a sausage McMuffin or a sausage biscuit to hash browns and wake up to a hot coffee. Get your$4 breakfast meal deal. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Spring Black Friday is on at the Home Depot. Save on grills and patio sets that will be sure to bring your hosting game up a notch. Fire up your feast with help from the Home Depot and save on grills like the next grill four burner propane gas grill was$249 now in special buy for$199.

30:33Or give everyone the best seat in the yard with the Hampton Bay Mayfield Park four piece conversation set for only$399. Save on grills and patio sets with low prices guaranteed during Spring Black Friday, only at the Home Depot. Now through April 22nd, while supplies last. Exclusion Supplies, homedepot.com slash price match for details.

30:52As a consumer of fashion and an executive in a parallel industry and an observer, I was curious to talk really briefly with you. I did a little summary up top on Friday of the Caring Capital Markets Day. But it's really interesting because so on Monday in my newsletter, I have this basically a summary slash fact check of this sweeping three part series that this news magazine in Paris, this French news magazine did on LVMH. It is called Le Nouvelle Obs. So I assume it used to be like it's the new observer, basically. It's a very reputable publication they interviewed 30 people on Arnaud succession and so basically what I did was I went through and found the things that I thought our readers who know a lot about Arnaud and LVMH Bernard Arnaud and LVMH and his succession plan he is 77 would be still interested in and then I went to my sources very close to the board and said like what was right about the and most of it was right there are things that i think because the family from what i understand the family didn't speak to them or at least most of the family didn't speak to them who knows like i i don't i don't have all the tapes so i can't tell you if they did but um it definitely doesn't get on the tapes yeah it doesn't feel like everyone got their chance to have a say or or decided to have a say so i like did some fact checking of like this is what i've i i know from my reporting is actually the context here.

32:36But anyway, there's that. And then I was talking to a friend who's an executive in Paris who said, it's of shame that this like, and the summary for you is that like, these people are just, it's just family drama. And they're all very hard workers who want to do a good job for their dad. And the stuff in this article, like I swear to God, I didn't want to know. like I don't want to know who that there was a fight at Christmas dinner I'm not interested I have my own family shit like no thank you anyway the point being that like they're gonna have to figure out a way to manage it better it's never gonna go away there are five kids there's a succession situation until succession even when the succession happens there's still gonna be drama but it's so much because they are they are such like type a good little workers that there is nothing else to talk about but these little spats between them and I just find it like I'm much more interested when one of them messes up their business or does well in their business to write about that but anyway the point being that one of my friends who's an executive said it's just too bad that that's happening because they're actually managing their business in this luxury crisis so much better than caring which has this new CEO this guy Luca DeMeo who's going to turn around the business and Gucci is doing better.