Dressing Up in a Dressed-Down World

0:03Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is fashion designer, Amelia Wickstead. We discussed dressing up in a dress down world, why fashion week still matters, building an independent biz post Brexit and plenty more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck where I send an email called line sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. it's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries line sheet is scoopy analytical and above all fun along with me a subscription to puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment media sports politics finance the art world and much more if you're interested listeners of fashion people get a discount.

1:01Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. I hope you had a great week. It's been a banner one for line sheets. Skims by Nike on Monday, Stodd on Tuesday, Violette on Wednesday, Sax on Thursday. We are breaking news and hearts all in one fell swoop. JK on the hearts part. This was a week when pretty much everyone in line sheet was happy about being in line sheet. Not everyone, but most people, which is, it's always a fun, fun to break news that's positive sometimes. Uh, thanks to Rachel Strugatz and Sarah Shapiro team line sheet for their incredible work this week.

1:42I'm headed to New York tonight for a one day appearance to interview Mickey Drexler at Columbia business school. And then it's off to London, Milan, and Paris. I can't wait to see you somewhere. Let's get going with the show.

1:58Amelia Wickstead, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you very, very much for having me. Thanks for being here. So what did you have for breakfast this morning? I knew you were going to ask me that. I actually, my husband very sweetly makes boiled eggs and soldiers for everyone in the family. But this morning I had porridge, which reminded me of my Italian grandmother. He used to shake her hips and make porridge for me as a little girl every morning. So I had porridge and I'm a New Zealander. I have three kiwis every morning and I drink AG1 every morning, take all my supplements. So breakfasts are big for me.

2:37Okay. So we need to talk about AG1. When did you start taking it? My husband was an AG1 freakazoid for about three years and then just stopped taking it one day. okay that's really interesting so I actually years and years ago my head of atelier her name is Toni also from New Zealand was drinking it and I kept getting sick and it was I think it was the you know the beginning of the end when your body just starts to cave in and you're sort of like oh this is what it means to be an entrepreneur and she said drink this it's going to keep you healthy it's going to keep you from being sick and it actually did for the longest time and I'm saying this with a sore throat, but I truly, truly, truly do believe that I, you know, and touch wood that I have been lucky enough to sort of stay healthy and it keeps me going.

3:27And so I really believe in it. And, and I think also it's from New Zealand. So I'm completely invested heart and soul. What I will say about it, and I have no evidence either way. And I feel like for me, it's like, if something makes you feel good, then you should take it and it's not going to hurt you. And I'm sure there are some benefits. The big thing is my husband said that it forced him to drink a lot more water in the morning, which is immediately he was like, I realized I'm not drinking the same amount of water because that was the first thing he would do every morning before coffee. And so he needed to like readjust to have like another eight ounce glass of water.

4:13It's so interesting. And it might seem like trivial one, especially now that we all drink out of these giant water bottles that are like 58 ounces or whatever. But it is a thing of it. I also think it's just like a routine. It's like meditation or whatever. If you do it every morning, you feel like, okay, I got that done. I can get everything else done. It is a routine and it's all your vitamins and minerals all in one. It also tastes great. And then it becomes like a little bit of a ritual. So I'll do lemon and hot water and then I'll wait 10 minutes and then I'll do that. And then I'll wait another 25 minutes and then I'll have something to eat.

4:50So, um, I spent a lot of time recently sort of, I think having your own business, um, you know, the, the same old lines, having your own business, being a mother, um, and doing all of that and just constantly being a little bit on a grind, let's say it's sort of just taking care of yourself a little bit more. And, um, and that's been part of my routine. And so I continue with it. And as long as it keeps me well, I'm thrilled. How many kids do you have? I have two. And how old are they? So one has just turned 12 and the other is 10 is turning 10. Oh, cool. So they're like little people. They are little people that answer back and are really cute and have great conversations.

5:34It's really fun. It's a fun age. At this point in the process, so this is probably going to run right around London Fashion Week where you're doing a show. We are, what, a month out from there, a little over a month out from there as we record this. What point in the process are you in? Like, what does your day look like as a small business? Well, I don't know how small, but as a business owner, an entrepreneur, and also a designer, and you're like many people in your position, you are probably doing 50 different jobs. So what in the process of the collection are you in right now? And what, like, what did today look like for you?

6:15So actually my Thursdays are always my head of department days. So we do team operations meetings and I, and I touch base with all of my heads of departments. which is always quite a fun day because you hear the ins and outs of the business. When it comes to Fashion Week, it's pretty much all completely connected to show. Sponsorships, stylist conversations, casting conversations, budgets, looking at our SKUs, like how many units are we presenting, and also cutting SKUs. And then we're talking about commercial styles that we're going to put into the collection. So I actually thrive. I always say that I'm sort of like built in two parts where I like thrive on the creative part of my job massively, where I'm creating this dream world.

7:05And, you know, Fashion Week for me is, I guess, where my identity and the world of Amelia Wickstead, which is why I'm doing this, why I wake up every day, is put out on a runway and is showcased to the world. And it's sort of like how I want the world to dress, which is very exciting. but the other side of my of the way that I'm sort of programmed is I love the business side of fashion and so I love my Thursdays so that was my Thursday today but other than that we are at the moment adding our last designs into all of our looks that we have sort of lined up on a board and then talking about how fast we can produce them so that our stylist we work with Harry Lambert.

7:46He'll come in, look at the collection with a fresh pair of eyes. And we saw him last week as well. He's a big part of the creative process. And so the next time that we can see him. So now it's kind of the fun part that pretty much all of the collection or the majority of the collection is designed. Have you listened to Bella Freud's podcast with her? And she does all the, it's called Fashion Neurosis. I love Bella Freud, but I haven't, no. You have to listen to it. Jonathan Anderson one was really interesting because he was really forthcoming. And also he talked a lot about his relationship with Benjamin Bruno and that it sounds like they're very, very good friends outside.

8:26But, and I've been, you know, I'd gotten to know a lot more stylists who work on collections over the years. How important is your process with Harry? Is it, does he push back on you a lot or is it, or is it, are you totally in sync? Like what, what is that relationship like? Well, I think this will be our third season working together. And I think whoever I've worked with and including Harry is that, you know, you immediately feel a connection when you start working together and you, you mold nicely together would be the best way that I'd describe it. If there's ever this kind of feeling of tension.

9:06I mean, by the way, don't get me wrong. I love to be pushed outside of my comfort zone, believe it or not, which some people don't believe that I like to, because I'm very clear and like distinct on like who our woman is, what our vision is, what our world is. I'm very passionate about that. But I love being, I love being challenged and I love, I almost thrive off of someone pointing out something that I don't like to hear. And then I like to sort of push my limits a little bit because my buttons have been pushed and do something bigger and better. And yeah, and I love a bit of a challenge. So I would say we mold very well together.

9:45I think that definitely he comes in with a different eye, a different approach to like a lot of things, but we're also very much in sync with so many things. And I think that that's really important. Otherwise, if we're too much on two different pages, there's no point. Totally. There needs to be some push pull, but also getting each other. Yeah. And having a good time. Like at the end of the day, you know, God, I've spent so many years just being a little bit too serious, I would say, and always being worried about everything. And I think now, now that I'm at the tender age of 41, I feel like I've been doing this from my living, started in my living room, but it's been almost 15 years now.

10:28And getting to know who I am as a designer, what we represent as a brand, understanding what women want. And I think having that confidence, but also knowing that you want to keep waking up every day and doing something a little bit differently is pretty exciting. And so it's fun to do that with Harry. That's really fun. What is remarkable about you is I can close my eyes and see what an Amelia Wickstead dress or piece looks like. Even the knit that you're wearing is yours, correct? It is, yes. Yeah, so like a knit is harder, but there's something very, there's a smoothness to all the materials you use that it feels like they're all connected.

11:16Like it's not the right word, but it's like a matte smoothness that even in this knit, I feel the connection from the knit to the dress. And that is really rare. What was the London fashion scene like when you started out? And you started showing there at Fashion Week like 10 years ago, right? So five years into the business. What was it like when you got off the ground? And what did you feel like you were able to bring so quickly in terms of point of view? So it's really interesting, that question, actually, because I was fresh off the boat from New Zealand when I, and then I moved to Milan. My mother married, we actually lived outside of Milan, but I moved to Milan when I was 14.

12:04My mother married in Italian. And already that, just before arriving fresh off the boat to London for university, was all of a sudden like this gear change of like walking home from school and bare feet and there being like no designer stores in New Zealand whatsoever although my mother had her own design business it was just myself and my mum my mum was a single mum and so I knew her sort of her little business that she had but even the contrast of going from New Zealand to Italy and all of a sudden everyone's groomed and very dressed up etc I think created this little bit of like a commercial buzz and commercial kind of business mode in my mind.

12:44Then I arrived in London and in answer to your question, went to Central Saint Martins. And all of a sudden it was this city that had this huge sort of like, you know, everyone was so creative and it was this exploration of like independence and individuality and you could be anything that you wanted to be. And coming from like Milan where everyone was so contrived and it was all very materialistic, etc it's almost like those two worlds merged and I took the commerciality of what I was exposed to from the age of 14 and and which I which I loved as well and then this kind of vibrancy and strength to kind of be whoever you wanted to be of London combined the two and I think that's where we sort of stood out a little bit because even in my graduate show at Central Saint Martins there There are only, I think there were only five of us from my class that were chosen to be part of the press show.

13:39And I was by far the most commercial. So there was a way, there was strong architectural design. There were like points of difference. I played on tradition. I had a little twist. That's exactly what I do now. It was very much my voice already, but definitely sitting next to everybody else. I already, I think, was painting my own picture in that fashion scene. yeah yeah it's interesting do you think I mean there are a lot of people who who go to St. Martin's who are not from the UK so so but did you feel like because of your mother's business like what was it that made you not fall in line with with everyone else um I definitely think that I had my mother in my ear talking, talking at me, which I think was very much, you know, I wanted to study women's wear and she said it has to be women's wear with, you know, fashion design with marketing.

14:38So there was never an option of like, you're not going to have the business side as well. And I think that, I think that she, you know, I always, when I, when my mother had her business, I saw a lot of the ups and downs. I saw the struggles. I saw the benefits. I saw the happy days, but I saw a lot of not so happy days. And I think that I always wanted to build a business that was profitable, that had growth. Even when I started, I did everything backwards. I started with a bespoke business and I didn't carry any stock. And I built a business whereby the customer had to pay 50 % upfront because I always had that fear in me of how am I going to withstand this industry and survive as a brand.

15:20And, um, yeah, I think, I think that I always had that at the forefront of my mind, I guess that sort of answer your question. I get, I guess, yeah. Yeah. I feel like when you're young, it's so easy to be swayed by what's like in the air and even very talented people that happens to, but it sounds like because you understood how the business worked, that from the beginning you were able to like, I wonder if it gave you a little more confidence in not only in your design abilities, but your like ability to stay on track, if that makes sense. I think, I think completely. And even when, even when I started from my living room, women would come to me and I was, you know, clearly the only person working for my business.

16:13But it was really understanding clearly what women wanted. So I was a 23 year old. I mean, what I wanted was a mini skirt and, you know, a tight pair of trousers and a crop top. But what did women really want? And, you know, I spent the first, even, so it was in the recession in 2008 when I took on a store, which, you know, all stores were closing down in London and it was an absolute disaster. And I sort of struck the steel. I mean, I don't even know how it happened really, but it was based on how much money we made, we would pay in rent. So, and even, I mean, even the fact that they gave it to us, but I think every, every store was vacant in 2028 and it was a bit of a disaster here.

16:50Well, there was a recession everywhere. And, you know, I opened the door of that store with no stock and people had to order off of samples and it was just me selling for the first six years. So I was there Monday to Saturday understanding who my woman was. And even when it came to, you know, I really wanted to have a show because of course I was like very naive, faking it till you make it. And I was 24 at this point. And I would put on a show for customers. So I would have customers, they would have a wishlist. And then I would, because I didn't have stock, they would put an order in and then I would take 50%.

17:26So I did everything completely backwards and I did it for the customer and understood, I guess, where my niche in the marketplace was. And I think even to this day, I still stand strong and can say, I know where our niche is. I know what the Amelia Wicks did world is today. And it hasn't changed hugely. I mean, it has, but it hasn't.

17:54What did you learn in that process in those early years about, you mentioned what women want, you mentioned having like your idea sort of in place. But the thing that I find really compelling about your work, not only that I can close my eyes and see it in my head, but also that you have it, the dresses fit, like the clothes fit. That is something that there are designers who never figure that out or never really try because they aren't as interested in dressing a real human. It's more about the idea or what have you. And that's fine. There's a place for all of it. But if you want to be commercially successful, it tends to be about making the customer feel good.

18:43What, what were some of the things that you learned and not just like, obviously people have body hangups, things like that, but just generally about how people interact with fashion in those early days that you've sort of taken and used as a foundation for your business? I mean, listen, I grew up in my mother's, you know, store or living room, fitting woman after woman. I mean, I would sit there and fill her pin cushions and just watch. So I guess I grew up with this sort of acute awareness of how fabric moves and flatters. I also had my mother sort of taking me in stores when we moved to Italy and, you know, turning a garment inside, inside out and show and explaining to me that the quality of the inside of the garment has to be as good as the outside the garment and oh look at these look at this polyester lining or look at this overlock seam versus like a French seam and so it was very I would say that you know the way I design now I'm I'm I guess I've got this appreciation for tradition I've got this this this sort of romance of the past I've got this this sort of you know I don't I I'm without compromising I guess on modernity but I've got this passion about you know extreme special craftsmanship and good fit and that's always been at the forefront of my mind I think purely because I've just watched my mother for years and years and years and that's always been like what she was all about it was all about the tailoring it was all about the fit she was explaining things to me before I even realized that I was taking them in.

20:23I guess in answer to your question, and I think, you know, I'm always designing for purpose. I'm designing for longevity. I'm designing for garments that you'll pull out of your wardrobe in years to come. That's always been my thing. And so fit, you know, at the end of the day, design changes, and I love being fashion forward, and I love pushing the boundaries, and I love creating lots of different, you know, twists on design, but at the same time for me, fit is, is the most important part of it all, but it does come with time and age for sure. Understanding fit better, but yeah. Is there a lot of internal construction in your pieces?

21:02There is, but I think also something is that, um, I think something about our brand is that I think that there, you know, we've got a lot of simplicity and ease and a lot of things as well. And I often, you know, we might have a lot of construction in a garment and then I'll just suddenly pull it all out because I think we are women on the go in today's world. And I think it's very, very different from, you know, from it's I guess as a woman, I'm designing for women is what I'm trying to say. And I know that if I'm feeling, you know, completely like caught up in a garment, I'm not going to feel comfortable.

21:39And, you know, it all goes back to how does how does clothing make you feel? It's my job to make women feel proud, confident. I mean, I think that we take it for granted half the time of like how powerful clothing is and how it can make us behave and how it can make us feel like we can walk into a room and achieve anything or how we can converse and, you know, all sorts of these things. So I think that you have to make sure, and I've always said this, that the clothing is not wearing you and that you're wearing the clothing. and so yes we will have you know beautiful corsets and dresses that need a corset because it's a black tie event and that's what we're doing and that's the look and the feel but I'm very very very much about um you know simplicity and ease and everything that we do and the art of a well-dressed life dressing up for sure feeling feeling put together but it doesn't mean that you need to have all of these strange little compartments to an outfit that make you feel completely sort of uncomfortable.

22:41You have to feel comfortable in what you're wearing. How does the UK or the British customer and the American customer differ for you? So I was just thinking about your collection and you obviously have day, a lot of day wear. And And like you said, there's a real ease to all of it. But you are known for you have a big wedding business. You're known for cocktail dresses and things for formal events. And when I think of the UK and all the different fun parties people get to go to there and really need to dress up and wear a fastener or what have you. And the US is a much more casual market, especially for like a cocktail party in the evening.

23:29women don't tend to dress up as much as they might in Europe at all. How does your customer differ given this is such a big market I'm sure it's a big area of growth for you and and how do you sort of think about that as a designer when you're when you're putting the collection together and then working with your team to merchandise it and all that? It's funny that you say that because listen, I think in the UK, undeniably, we've got this sort of unique love on tradition and occasion. And I think that there's a real, there's real excitement and experimentation, I think, here in the UK with fashion, undoubtedly.

24:09And I think I love that about the UK. But it's funny, because I always see that, I've always thought of the US a little bit like that as well. And it's funny, because America is our fastest growing market at the moment. And so clearly, they're tapping into us for that occasion dressing. And that's kind of, that's kind of absolutely wonderful. So we see that the customer is very much like in line with our customer here in the UK. I think that, listen, I think that the woman that we're dressing, and I always say that we're dressing for all women. I think that when we're putting together our, you know, our line sheet of like, what are all the designs that we're putting forward in a merchandising client and who's our woman and what we're thinking about.

24:55I always say we're for all women. So, you know, we dress women of all ages and all around the world. And it's funny because we've always been known for occasion. And I think, again, that comes distinctly from the UK and all the different occasions, like you said, that we have. And that's a big part of our business. But I think that that woman that's shopping with us, she's building out her wardrobe. So now like separates and casual wear, like even this jumper that you were referring to, people don't necessarily think or come to us for that. But that's like a huge part of our business. Denim is a huge part of our business.

25:30Holiday wear, like cotton dresses, like simple cotton dresses are a huge part of our business. And our customer is she's quite forward and original and she's really bold and refined. But yes, yet also quite refined in her delivery. So she's just a very modern woman in a circle. And it's interesting because we've really got that woman. You know, when you say we don't have that in America, we've definitely got that woman in America for sure. Yeah. Well, so our numbers keep telling us. Well, it's also interesting. Like what I was saying, the knit that you're wearing, and maybe it is the architectural thing.

26:07Like how are you obsessed with, you must be obsessed with color as well. Because I feel like that's the other thing. you're very, I can't, I can't articulate this. You probably can, but you have your sense of color. It all does feel there's something like very rich about the colors you use or, and saturated or something, but it does all feel like it's connected, which is extremely hard to, to manage this far into a business. So it's funny. I, um, that's the first thing I start with often with the collection is my colour palette so it's interesting you say that and I think that you know colour has so much you know so much impact on on sort of mood and confidence of clothing I think personally but also I always see everything especially colour I guess through quite a rich cinematic lens and so I look to cinema anything old world and I really play into those color palettes and that's yeah that's ultimately how I started collection really what are some of your favorite movies for fashion inspiration over the years like what was on your first mood board on my first mood board well nine and a half by Helene um that was that was actually probably my first which was all in black and white of course but I put color into that so when we're connecting colour but that has nothing to do with colour um honestly anything from sort of anything from the 1950s to the 1960s um I would love to talk to you about like our um our most recent collection that we're focusing on am I allowed to talk about that maybe not um but like for instance uh the director that I'm looking at and the films that I'm looking at the color palette I mean that's like a perfect example of how I hone in on color so when that all comes to life and you see it you'll see we look to the costume um costume design to the mood of the interiors within a film um just everything that's that's where I pull my color references from, but I can't tell you what that is.

28:34That's okay. You know, by the time this airs, everyone will get to see it in the next day or two, or it'll already be available. So what day is your show? Uh, so our show is on, on the Sunday. So, uh, on the 23rd, I mean, it's, it's basically, it's, it's like, it's like the world of Hitchcock, right? So it's sort of how his, you know, let's say his color palette leans into the mood of the film. So if it's really gloomy and scary, but then, I mean, it's so interesting when you read about how he builds his color palette out with his costume designer and how he films something, the setting, the scene, everything.

29:12If there's something alarming is about to happen, it'll be one specific color amongst, you know, a gray and gloomy scene. It's really interesting. And so anyhow, that's an example of how we would play into color. Okay. Well, I'm very excited to see it. And Hitchcock, obviously, is for you. I was just watching, re-watching, because I've probably seen it 50 times, but The Godfather Part II, my husband had never seen it. I did an entire collection based on The Godfather. Exactly. So what is the first wife's name? Apollonia? Yes. that was a huge inspiration for my wedding for, for my dress like that.

29:57It's, it's so, there's so much. And I also feel in your work, it feels very cinematic, but also the Italian part. Like there is something about what you do. It feels rooted in the UK and, and that Commonwealth thing, but there's also something nodding to that time in your life, I assume. And it feels like you take a lot of inspiration from it. Yes. So my, my mother is half Italian. So my grandmother was from, from Italy and also was a big part of sort of raising me. And I think definitely you know, this, her name was Amalia and this Italian woman in my life who was always, you know, very, very, you know, we didn't have much, but like very glamorous in her sort of like every day.

30:47And we always, you know, listened to Frank Sinatra, you know, on repeat. And, and it was very much that kind of Italian upbringing and Italian cooking and all about family, you know, eight children and so forth. And then on my father's side, he's, he's Polynesian from Samoa, like half Polynesian. So it's, it's sort of like, I've had this like real sort of mix of cultures and then now being very British, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a British based designer with British, with British children. But definitely, and the God, and the Godfather, I did a show, I remember it was, we ended up doing it in a restaurant, very, very, very godfather-esque.