Everybody Wants This

26:19So when did you all, because the first time I realized it was going to be a thing was, do you know, this woman, Madeline Hill, she does this podcast called the sports gossip podcast, but I've known her since she was in college. She's just like a very interesting, she was like very early social media editor type person. And she was a former teen model. And she, when she was like in grad school or something, she was wearing a lot of your stuff and kept saying favorite daughter is so good on her social media. And I thought Madeline, who understands the fashion world was involved in the fashion world had access to these kinds of clothes is buying this stuff, it's going to be a thing.

27:03And when did you all start to feel that word of mouth element of it, like DMs on social media, that sort of thing? It's a good question. It is a good question. There was a point where I don't know what the point where the point is, but there was a point where we went from kind of desperate to get people to wear our clothes to people asking to wear the clothes, you know us trying to push it where people asking for it like us you know pushing our friends to like hey you know get this pair of jeans to our friends saying like hey I like those Jordi jeans like can you send them to me in my size then it just became like a shift from us you know wanting it to be a thing to it being a thing and and I think it's a slow progression I mean I'm sure you're familiar with like sometimes there could be a micro influencer like a random mom that has 3 ,000 followers and like she'll sell out a trench coat for us, you know, and then there's going to be like a person with 20 million followers and like nothing.

28:02I think I remember Lauren Santo Domingo posted LSD posted herself in her dentist's office wearing the favorite trouser. And that was like, whoa, you know, LSD is not trying to do favors for people. She is a businesswoman. she is the chicest she's not going out into the world wearing a pair of trousers for a for a you know she's not gonna be nice to you guys if she doesn't she's she's not gonna she does feels no obligations to be nice to you yes I mean she's a nice person she is a very nice yeah and will always be supportive and all those things but there's a very big difference in because early on I would ask her advice and there's a very big difference between oh yeah that yeah that you know looking at sketches and then actually wearing the garment out into the world in New York City.

28:51So I remember when I saw that, I was like, whoa, that is crazy. And it's not like a t-shirt. It is a pair of pants. I also think that like, I don't know how other people approach their businesses, but Sarah and I are not, there's no point where Sarah and I become hands-off. There's no point where we go, okay, it kind of runs itself. It's never going to run itself. Sarah and I are in every fitting. Now, I've not been as present with the TV show lately. So Sarah really holds up her end and she'll send me pictures and stuff. But we are in every single fitting looking at every single thing going like, we thought that was going to hit the ankle, but it's definitely hitting the calf and that looks weird.

29:31And we think that that seam doesn't look right there. And that fabric doesn't feel like we thought it was going to feel like. We are obsessive and I don't see a point where that changes. We had thought when we started it, we'll be in the first few fittings, then we'll sort of let it run. But the truth is like, we have to be hands-on because it's us and it's, and we, we're going to care about it more than anyone else. Not only is it us, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're not going to go start another fashion brand. You know, like, it's like, this is it. And we look, we treat it like that every day.

30:01This is our only opportunity is how we look at this is like our dad used to always tell us, Erin, I'll probably butcher it, but like the microphone comes around one time, you know, you better grab it. And this is our one time in this lane. Yeah, we'll do other things. Wow. Words of wisdom. I know. I know. But it's true. It's true. And true. And so we do not take this opportunity for granted for one second. We know how lucky we are to have found the partners we have to to be in this opportunity to echo what Aaron said earlier. If we were doing this on our own, we would not be a profitable business.

30:38The only way that we are profitable is because we have linked up with Centric, who allows us to utilize all their other things that don't even touch our P &L, which makes us have a profitable business. I mean, a lot goes into having a profitable business, but we just don't take it for granted. And I think that when you sit in your gratitude, not to sound cheesy, but I think we now know it works. Yeah, we're not like coasting. We feel excited to be here, lucky to be here, grateful to be here, and we're not going to fucking up.

31:14Speaking of not fucking it up, what has been the biggest like what are the I assume denim is a big category for you. But what what are the like styles that have really hit with people that you feel like are emblematic of this thing that you're building? Actually, denim is not as big for us as you would think. Interesting. Like we want it to be bigger. I mean, we want to start investing into denim campaigns and things like that because our denim is really good. But as you know, denim is tough. The customer is married to their denim. It's very hard. Our denim is so good. It's all I wear. I mean, obviously, I love it so much.

31:56It's so good. But we are working to make it a bigger category. It's really suiting, I would say, is the biggest category for us and and coming up with creative suiting like we have something called the phoebe um bustier and it's like suiting but it's strapless and it holds you in and it has buttons down the front and it has a matching trouser and a matching blazer and i do think that that item it kind of it it broke us out of this you know there's like a there's a crossroad between suiting and fashion and i think right now kind of like in the 80s like suiting is really fashionable and it's fashionable to wear a blazer to the office.

32:32It's not dorky. It's cool. And so some blazers are very dorky. Ours are just really chic. Sure. But the concept of wearing a blazer is is in a good place right now. And we're really playing into the cool working woman and how she wants to dress at work and then also being able to wear that out at night and still feel cute. So that's been like a real sweet spot for us. We always say we want to do suiting kind of different, like with a little bit of a feminine twist, like, yes, having your oversized blazers with maybe a little shoulder pad and a tailored waist. But then also we've been leaning into skorts.

33:09So like mini, mini skirts, you know, in a suiting fabric, mini skirts with a, with a short underneath it with a little vest and an oversized blazer. And we're doing those in like colors and an electric blue in yellow. So girls, I feel like a lot of girls are in their sort of feminine era. So we're giving them suiting with a little bit of a feminine twist and that's selling really well for us. Do you all feel and I I actually don't know how old you are. My guess is late 30s. I'm not going to you don't have to say it. I don't know if you all I don't usually ask people how old they are. I don't like asking personal questions, but do you all.

33:51Feel like you mentioned feminine. do you feel like there's also something with your generation that is about like being looking like a little sexier than you did in your 20s? Sarah and I have very different takes on this. Sarah's very into sexy and I'm not as into sexy or I guess what what is sexy is a little different to us because I feel sexier when I'm wearing kind of layered drapey things. But I do think that our generation of women are struggling to figure out the masculine and the feminine, the working mom with the housewife. Like we are trying to figure out that balance of where we sit because there's been a lot, there was a lot of pressure on our generation as women to do everything and do it at like a very high level.

34:46And so we're always trying to figure out what that balance is. Yeah. What about you, Sarah? What do you think? I don't know, you guys. I mean, can I just be honest? I don't know that I even think about it. I don't know. Maybe there's, as you get older, you care less and less how people view you. I'm actually in my 40s and I wear crop tops and I wear, you know, a dress with like a high slit in it. And where some people might be like, Oh God, like act your age. Like I literally do not care. Like I work out like a psycho. I'm really healthy. I take a lot of supplements. I'm more fit now than I was in my twenties.

35:29I didn't care about my body. I chain smoked. I was skinny, but I was, I didn't lift weights. You know, I was I wasn't healthy in my 20s and in my 40s. I feel I think a lot better about myself in so many ways. I feel better about myself mentally more than anything, you know, so I don't know. I I just don't really care what people say anymore. I mean, I do, but I don't. You know, it's funny you mentioned that being in your 40s and wearing what you want and then also skorts because I do think skorts are having a real moment. So the fact that you all are just like, understand that and already making that stuff is great.

36:11But I had a conversation with a friend of mine. I'm 40. I'm going to be 43. And my friend is, I think, 45. And I there was a skort that I really liked. And she was like, I can't. I'm too old to wear that. And I was like, I'm not too old to wear that. But I don't think I'd wear just a mini skirt with nothing under it. Like, I don't know. I just I've never been a person that wears really short things without tights. I think I just I don't know. I just we're not big leg people. You know, I don't I don't know. But the the when you have a short under the miniskirt, you just feel a little better. At least I do.

36:47Maybe I'll try the favorite daughter's sport. I I'm not I have I'm my legs are the only part of my body that I'm not that I feel comfortable with. So I've always been like, it's fine because I'm going to wear like a big T-shirt with this skirt. But I just like the I think the skirt is so cute. No, it's so cute. Kiki. And with an oversized blazer, it's a vibe. So let's discuss how Favorite Daughter, because since Favorite Daughter launched five years ago, it's been incredibly successful, very successful for Centric. I bet they're looking at you and thinking, wow, I mean, they don't have part. You're you all are very special.

37:30So that's part of the reason it's been so successful. But since then, I mean, you have this podcast that's very successful. Nobody wants this has become a phenomenon. You have this, as we were talking before, this startup flywheel that means basically nothing to most people. You have created a flywheel. Tell me the ecosystem of how all this works together and sells more stuff and build your global business that you are creating. It works. It works very well together in a way that we didn't even know was going to happen. You know, like when I was taking time away from Favorite Daughter to work on the TV show, the TV show hadn't come out yet.

38:09I had no idea what was going to happen. Right. I knew it was taking up a lot of my time. I knew that I wasn't able to be in fittings and I we would do fittings sometimes. So four times a year we do proto reviews where it's like, you got to see it in person. You got to feel it. It's important. And so the whole office from downtown would come to the writer's room last year and we would do 8 a.m. proto-reviews with a model. And then the writers would come into the room at 10 a.m. and see a model walking around changing in the bathroom. And we were trying to get it all done. And I'm so grateful with how much everyone was accommodating to my schedule.

38:44And I was just feeling guilty that it was taking me away from the business. When the show came out, there's not a ton of favorite daughter in the show because there's a few reasons for that disney which is 20th which is our studio um they've got very serious like you know legal boundaries about any kind of quid pro quo stuff and so the costume designer she pulled favorite daughter if she liked favorite daughter she paid the you know discounted rate that she pays for any other brand brought it to the talent anything that they liked in fittings and that they wanted to wear great if they don't want to wear it great There's no like pushing of it.

39:21So I didn't really think it was going to have a big effect on Favorite Daughter. And then when the show came out and it was a hit just by osmosis, it like completely blew up our sails in the best way possible. And I was like, OK, well, it makes sense that I took so much time away. You're welcome. I didn't realize it was going to be a good thing. And by the way, we gain listeners on the podcast because people kept going, oh, the real life podcast is the world's first podcast. That is nothing I ever anticipated either. No. So all of it is, it's not like we're going like, oh, wow, this happened without us meaning for it to.

39:55It's just that we focus on each lane individually and try to be as present and do as well as possible in whatever lane we're in at that time. And then it sort of has like an unintentional synergy between all of these things that's great. Like Sarah is the one who kind of came up with this idea when we were having a conversation with Booth at Women's Wear Daily, where she was like, you know, the girl who's watching the TV show is wearing Favorite Daughter, is drinking Juliette wine, is reading 831 books, is, you know, listening to the podcast. It's like, she's the same girl. And that's, I don't know if it's a happy accident or if it's intentional somehow, but like, it's amazing for us to witness.

40:40I would say that the thing that has been intentional with us is we made a decision when we took the Bumble position, you know, when we became creative directors of the company in 2017, we were like, we need to start coming from the place of yes. We need to start taking opportunities when they come. We need to start betting on ourselves. We need to start taking risks. We need to start living, you know, for so long when you're, when you're a struggling actress or a struggling writer, every day you were at the mercy of someone else's decision. Are you good enough? Will they pick you? You know, and when you live like that, I lived like that my entire 20s and then up until honestly, like 33 years old, I guess we started, we created Barely Famous when I was 33, I guess.

41:28Yeah. And that is when things change for us, when we bet on ourselves. And it's been a long ride. This is not some like overnight situation, but yes, we did not sit there with a Ouija board going like, ooh, like let's have this flywheel And that wasn't the plan. And Favorite Daughter, when we were focusing on it in COVID, when it launched, I was honestly feeling self-conscious that I wasn't a writer anymore. You know, I was like, maybe my TV career is not going to happen. And maybe that's OK. Maybe I'm going to be, you know, it wasn't my dream to have a clothing brand. It was just this like cool thing that came into our lives that I really enjoyed.

42:01But was it like the thing I was put on this earth to do? Like I was meant to be a writer? Like I felt that pull inside of me to be a writer? you know, I felt like I was kind of abandoning that. And so the fact that they can merge now is like the ultimate success for me. And it feels like you all are not, I see a lot of people can get a little too myopic and too focused on this thing needs to point A needs to get me to point B needs to get me to point C. And it does feel like whatever you all are working on, you put your everything into it. And that's part of the reason that it all has come together.

42:40Like you said, Aaron, about you, you still felt the ambition to have success as a writer. And I will say you all grew up here. The thing that is craziest to me about this industry, Hollywood and living here as someone who works outside of it is the like, you just don't know. Everybody's just waiting for decades for something to happen. I can't imagine operating like that. So it takes a lot of patience. But it does feel like you took hold of your own destiny in some way, but at the same time, didn't let the like tiny, tiny little details of how that you were going to get there, hang you up and like drag you down.

43:24Well, you have to have a certain amount of faith, you know, that like I'm also really comfortable with failure. I'm used to it. And I'm like, you know what? If this doesn't work, that has to be okay. Everything has to be okay. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. I remember when I finished the Nobody Wants This and I finished editing it, I looked at it and I was like, I can't tell if this is good or not. I think my friends will make fun of me for it. And that's all I can say. I think they will make fun of me for it. And that's all I know. And if it fails, then I tried. I really fucking tried.

43:55I put my all into it. And I think that that is kind of how you have to approach things because you have to take the risk and be willing for it to not work. And also, if you have friends, we're going to make fun of you for anything. I think that's going to get some new friends. But that is honestly like in L.A. It is true, though. People are so fucking judgmental. And that is something that Aaron and I have dealt with. You know how many people talk shit about us when we took the Bumble position? like yeah i'm sure so many people talk shit about like oh these they're gonna go take this tech and then like what do you see like a couple years later everyone's looking for a different brand to you know be the chief creative officer for the chief whatever and i'm not saying we started that trend but we've taken a lot of shit when when we started doing barely famous people like oh what are they doing blah blah blah you know and then all of a sudden people are like oh shit like how do we create a barely famous?

44:49So we kind of just keep our head down. We know people talk shit because that's what people do. But you know what we've realized? And it's not like I've never talked shit. Of course I have. But I think that you hope that I've talked shit. No, but listen, you know, this world that we're all sort of living in or hovering over is just judgmental and jealous. and it's a huge bummer, which is why my circle is small. Like I really only surround myself now with people who are happy for my wins, you know, and unfortunately not everybody is. Well, I'm happy for your wins. I love it. And my last question for you all is you're also investors in different companies.

45:37What do you, at this point, you've been doing this, you've been working together and building businesses for what, 15 years? Not that long. I mean, barely famous. I was, you know, I don't know, like 11, yeah, 11 years, 10 years. Yeah. What do you see right now in entrepreneurship or brand building that you think is exciting? What are you looking for as investors? Like what, what do you, when you, meet a founder, what do you all think? Okay, that person has it or I want to support this person's attempt at having it. I would say there needs to be some sort of innovation in what we're looking at.

46:21You always have to look at who else is doing what you're trying to do in your space. You also want a founder to be really clear and confident in what they're building because Because as an investor, you can't feel confident in somebody who isn't confident in what they're doing. So that's really huge. I think women's... Yeah. I was just going to say, also for us, there's a lot of red flags with founders these days who are thinking about their own trajectory more than they're thinking about the business. And as we all know, it's really hard to run a business. It's not glamorous. and you have to be really smart and really focused.

47:05And if you have a publicist already and you're looking to get invited to certain parties or get yourself on the cover of something because you want to be a known founder, that is a huge red flag to us. Because we live in a time right now where founders are more visible than they ever have been. And so a lot of founders get really distracted by that. And they're really like thinking about being whatever, quote a founder is. And I don't know what being a quote founder is. It's just a person with an idea and a business that you have to run properly. So seeing that distraction, seeing like, you know, we live in a time right now where everyone's obsessed with profit and profit can be at the detriment of the quality of the thing that you're creating.

47:48So anyone who's focused more on that than they are with building something people need and want is a huge red flag. so final final question you've been in the fashion business for five years now what is the like craziest or or most surprising thing that you found operating i mean i we're not even going to talk about tariffs and all that stuff please don't but um what is the thing that you're just like i can't believe that it operates this way or i'm so shocked that we have to go through that process. I mean, it is crazy that you can't build, you can't make clothes in America that people can afford.

48:31You know, that's shitty. You know, we would love to make clothes in America that you that can have affordable prices. It's shitty. But then on the flip side of that, I would say that in order to have a functioning global economy and global relations, certain countries just do certain things better. Like I would rather have my pasta from Italy. I don't want my pasta from America. I want it from Italy. I want my watches from from Switzerland, you know, so I actually we can talk about tariffs, even though I'm sure everyone is going to tell me, you know, say that we should not. But yeah, I probably.

49:09So what surprised you then, Sarah? You know, what's interesting? I've this is just something that is is very technical, but it's about fabrics. I did not realize that you can take the exact same fabric and make it have a completely different feel and texture by how you treat it. That is something very technical, but it's something that is mind-blowing to me. I mean, I've learned so much about fabrics in this process. I'm obsessed with fabrics. I should probably do that full-time for another business. I would probably do really well. But but yeah, I mean, look, I'm going to be honest with you. We have been looking at other countries to do.

49:49You want to be diversified, right? You don't. And we are diversified. We've always been diversified. We've always done denim in Mexico and we're looking to doing T-shirts in Guatemala. And we've been looking at Turkey for denim and Portugal for this. But, you know, China does good suiting and China does great suiting, as we know. And I think China's gotten a bad rap, but they are meticulous. They're artisans. They are really good at what they do. A hundred percent. I mean, it's where nice clothes are made now. It is where nice. Yeah. This whole like made in China, like it's totally wrong. The optics are wrong.

50:24The narrative is wrong. And the whole thing has been a huge bummer to say the least. Okay. One, one more last question. I know I keep saying that, but Erin, you mentioned, or Sarah mentioned that, Aaron, you're not on social media anymore. Like why? And also how is that affecting your flywheel? Because you all are like my husband knows who you are because of social media. Yeah. Not because of barely famous. Right. Even though it was a brilliant show. We you know, we're not watching that channel. So I think Sarah's talks in extremes. Sometimes I am on social media, but I'm not very active in it on it anymore.

51:04And I think for me, you know, we were just talking about this yesterday. We had Tinks on our podcast and she's really bright. And like for me personally, when I first got on social media, I was doing a sense of humor and bits that were unique to me. And now it just feels like it's what everybody does. Everybody's the same, you know, and it makes me feel like there's certain like dorky moms doing like funny bits that aren't really authentic to them that make me not really want to be a part of that group. You know, like I just my sense of humor feels like it's I don't know. Everyone has everyone's got a bit.

51:46Everyone's got like their angle, their shtick. It feels very performative. And I honestly feel like it's kind of hard for me to remember how to be myself on social media now because A, when there's a lot of people watching and commenting on everything that you say and do, it makes you change how you behave inherently. And I really like to be open and honest. And I don't know, things get taken out of context or it's just, it's kind of taken the fun out of it for me. I just say whatever the hell I want to say and I don't care. I mean, I don't want to say like, I'm so laissez-faire, like, oh, I don't care about it.

52:19Of course I care, but I just don't care. Yeah. Well, I think not caring what other people think is a big reason you all have been successful. I'm sure you care to an extent, but like you can't believe me. I'll call someone. I'll be like, can you face to my neck in that picture, please? Like my neck looks insane. I care. Like I care. I care about her neck than people's stances on her like political takes. You know? Yes. Yes. Yes. The neck thing is a is it's tough. Well, I sleep on my stomach. Do you understand? Dan, I sleep on my stomach and sleeping on your stomach. If you are a vain person is, guys, for longevity, anti-age, you do not want to sleep.

53:02Yeah. Doesn't Kim Kardashian sleep like a vampire, like on her back without her head moving? You need to be doing that, Sarah. I know. You would think that I would because I care about that, but I just can't do it. I can't sleep if I'm not on my stomach. Yeah. No, but I mean, I think that we just, I think that growing up in the industry and in in Los Angeles and in our circumstances that we're very used to people sort of having an assumption that they know who we are, how we live, what kind of people we are. And I think in our 20s, we were very defensive about it and felt like we had a lot to prove.

53:32And now in our 40s are kind of like, what are you going to do? All I can do is like when I was making the TV show, I wasn't going around saying to my friends, I'm making a show. This is who's in it. And this is what's going to happen with it. I knew if the show's a success, they will know. I don't need to tell them. And if it's a failure, I'll be glad I didn't mention it. But I also want to say that I have such respect for brands. Sarah, you didn't let that land. You know, you just didn't let it land. It's like we had a moment. Me and Lauren were having a moment. She looked at me like, wow, Erin.

54:02That was beautiful. And you just like jumped right in. Sorry. Okay, well, that was beautiful. But I want to say about social media, like I don't want to leave this out, that I don't take lightly for one second that that is not a huge driving force in the success of our brand. You know, I don't want to be like, oh, we're not on social media. Like when I think about the Donna Karens of the world and the brands from the 80s and 90s that did as well as they did, and they had no social media, they had no click to buy, swipe up, they just had to do it the old fashioned way. I'm in awe because when I see that something isn't selling well, I am the first person in my closet trying it on showing it from all the angles, posting it.

54:43It is true. To generate a big, big sell. I mean, literally this morning, Sarah texted our social chat and said the Paloma dress is selling. And they were like, yeah, because you were posting it like it. It works. You know, it really does work. Yeah. So I just I want to remind people listening that that is a huge part of why Favorite Daughter is successful. So, yeah, I'm grateful for social media. I'm very grateful for it. We love Instagram. Thank you, Eva Chen. So thank you both. This was so fun. You're such pros. Everyone also listen to Sarah and Erin's podcast because it's really professional.

55:21It's very unhinged. No, no. Ours is very unprofessional. What are you talking about? Great. Yeah. No. I can't wait. I'm going to look at the... Oh, I'm looking at the Paloma dress right now. It's beautiful. By the way, are we getting knowledge that you and I are dressed the same? Yes, we have the same. So Aaron and I are both wearing, I believe, are you wearing gray t-shirt also? And a black V-neck sweater. It's, it's a real uniform of a certain generation. Yeah, it really is. And, and Sarah has on a great favorite daughter sweatshirt. And sweatpants. Yeah. Not cropped, not cropped, oversized.

55:59Cute. Cute. Thank you both so much. You're awesome. Congrats on all of your success. Thank you, Lauren. We look forward to covering your fashion business forever. Awesome. Thanks for having us. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gobby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Bob Tabador.