Fashion Is Political

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, right out of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Aurora James, Brother Veli's designer, founder of the 15 % Pledge, Substack author, book author, and a lot more. We're talking nostalgia bias, Taylor and Travis in fashion, tariffs, and more from the past. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am officially on vacation. Line sheet will be packed as usual, though. On Monday, I had some fun scoops regarding Chanel and Prada's a schooler. I also answered some reader questions addressing everything from the profitability of Andola, which if you've never heard of it, is this sort of active wear, fast fashion-y thing out of the UK.

0:56and also things like Prada's makeup strategy. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you have a great week. Keep sending me tips. I'll have you muted, but I'll respond in a week. And let's get going with Aurora.

1:12Aurora James, welcome back to Fashion People. Thank you, Lauren. Pleasure to be here. thanks for being here i saw you went on yet another trip to the is it's not really a flea market what where do you go on the weekends and you find all this cool shit it's definitely a flea market it's the long beach yesterday i went to the long beach flea market it's very much a flea market you you find crazy stuff there why is it so good listen lauren it's not that it's good it's that I'm good. Okay. That's true. That's true. But what would, why do you seek that one out? Well, I go to every flea market. That's like what I do for sport.

1:55What would you say makes that one special? No, I think the Long Beach flea market is probably my favorite flea market in LA because it's less, you know, the hipsters aren't trying to drive to Long Beach on a Sunday morning at 6 a.m. Yeah. The Japanese are, though. And they know what's good. They know what's good, and they're coming straight from Japan, and they're there at 5, and they're on a mission. I think in my current lifestyle, I'm never going to be able to go, but I do always get a little jealous because you get really good stuff. Well, what do they say? The early bird gets the worm. Yeah, that table yesterday was a major come up.

2:34Also, all the tabbies, that was very good. I'm endlessly impressed it it reminded me I subscribe to your sub stack which I think is very good everyone should subscribe it's called curious right yep yep curious aurorajames.substack or something like that just google but I thought it was interesting you you mentioned this and I I have an upcoming interview with Gene Pressman, one of the heirs to Barney's when they owned it, I guess. The former co-CEO of Barney's who has this memoir coming out in September and we're running the interview in September. But he and I were talking about like sort of you can't harp on the past.

3:21And your essay in your recent issue was about sort of nostalgia, the nostalgia trap. And I was thinking about it in terms of the Alexander Wang sweatshirt, corseted sweatshirt that you sourced online, which was amazing. That collection was seminal for me, for sure. Why do you think this is coming up right now? What did you talk about in your very concise note about it? Well, I think, you know, there's obvious political ties to that as well with Make America Great Again. But in general, we do romanticize things from the past so much. I mean, that Alex Wang spring 2010 collection had a chokehold on me had a chokehold on you, like the response from people was huge.

4:15So there's those moments, which are major, but then, you know, irreverence Barney's like, I don't know, Barney's was not that good to me. I think what was good was like a period of time that a lot of people had where they could actually interact in a meaningful way with designer clothing that felt curated. And it was something, it was more about us and how we related to fashion and how we were able to access fashion in a particular space than I think it really was Barney's. because, I mean, no huge shade to Barney's. Obviously, I did shop there, but was it the best curation in the world? No. I mean, no, it wasn't.

5:00Was the store particularly inspiring visually? No. I mean, I do think that we overly romanticize things from the past all the time. I agree. I mean, what I would say is I do think that at one point Barney's was probably in the 90s when we weren't there. Also, when I first moved to New York, I would say it was much it felt much more comfortable for me to go in there than it did. Like a Bergdorf or what have you. And also there that was the time when like Alex and Philip Lim and all those designers were coming up. And I remember my it is it's an it's nostalgia. I remember the first thing I ever kind of designer stuff I bought, I bought a male top there on sale, Jane male.

5:51Um, and then I also got a little Phillip limb suit that I still have the blazer, the skirt, unfortunately got lost at a Carol gardens, uh, dry cleaner and in 2009 or so. But, um, it was, it was like a very big deal for me. And, and yes, by that time, the, the sort of way that they operated had just been copied so much. And also the, the business was already changing. So I, yeah, I think the, the thing with the Barney stuff that is so frustrating and I don't, I don't know if Gina and I really got into this because he hasn't been there since the nineties. And, and this was, his book is really about his life and, and his life at Barney's.

6:36But the thing that I find frustrating about all this sort of Barney's revival stuff is you're, you're exactly right in that there's nothing, there's nothing good about it. Like when Julie Gilhart did sort of curated, I hate that word, but she really did curate a pop-up of kind of old Barney's designers and designers she would have had if she was, you know, fashion director of a store today. And then it was sponsored by Hourglass Cosmetics, which sort of didn't make sense. But the reason it was special was because of Julie and people's love for Julie and their relationship with her and seeing the sort of typefaces of the old type Barney's typeface on everything.

7:26There is just something sort of let's move on. Let's do some Let's give Julie, I mean, I don't know if she has any desire to do this, but like, let's give Julie money to be the fashion director of a new store with new ideas and all that. And there is just not enough looking forward as as there needs to be in in this world generally. Yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think what's challenging right now is we're trying to roll back the clock in a lot of different ways. You know, I think we're seeing that in Hollywood, too, right? And it's just, I mean, I don't find the past that interesting.

8:11some of it yeah we can learn from it but do I want to re-experience it again from a from a cultural standpoint from a creativity standpoint no like you learn from it you build on it and you move on you don't start removing bricks but the problem with that I think in this era is that there isn't as much creativity there is I was messaging with someone who is a creative person who's worked in the industry for, I don't know, 50 years or so, a really well-regarded person. And we were just sort of commiserating about someone who is one of the suits, essentially. Wow. This sounds like a real messy conversation.

8:53Oh, my God. It's so good. I love this person so much. But yes, it is in every world that I frequent, this person is connected to it. And it's a complex conversation we were having. wish I could say it all here. Wow. It's not great. Can you invite this person to golf? Okay. We're playing. Yes. Oh, we need to, we need to start golfing for sure. But the, but the issue is that I think because there is so much technology change right now that, and everybody thought it was sort of like during the internet, the technology change, and it did change everything, but that was just sort of the beginning of it.

9:29And now the technology change is happening so fast that there is not really room for new ideas that aren't like everything's based on something old. But in the past, it was like you had separation from the old thing to create something new. And now there's no separation. And I think that's a huge part of this crisis, like generally creativity crisis, but also just in our world that we are so close to the past now that we don't have any separation from it. We can't look back and see what was wrong with it too. And that's really dangerous. Yeah, I think you're right. Because also, even for me, my relationship to the past pre-social media, let's say, was viewed with my own sort of rose-colored lenses, right?

10:24I remember what I wanted to remember from the past. And I build on that, pull it forward, and make something new. Now, it's like, you're in these weird algorithms where everyone's seeing the literal thing from the past all the time. And so then you'll just see, like, a quote, unquote, new version, but it's just the same. And yeah, I think that also chat, GBT, AI, like all of that and our early dependence on it for so many people already is just it doesn't bode well for creativity. No, it doesn't. Hopefully something new will come out of it.

11:10Aurora James:Sleep Number's new collections are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and your sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the new Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep. And now, get early access to our biggest sale of the year. Save 25 % on the new Comfort Next Luxe for a limited time. Only at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com.

11:43speaking of creativity i wanted to talk to you today about your thoughts on robin gavon the longtime fashion critic and current cultural critic at the washington post leaving but it was interesting i was coming in here talking to my husband he said oh who are you talking to today i said aurora and he he is actually he reminded me so it's been months since i read it but he is listening to Robin's book about Virgil Abloh. And he said, oh, you know, Aurora has plays a big role in it with the, you know, Robin. I said, oh, yeah, I remember, remember that. And, and I think Virgil represented to me, at least this like gap between the realities of how people process information today and the way you can, and the end creativity and how you can be creative in a modern way.

12:35And, um, I don't know, I, I guess I'm curious what you think about his sort of role in, in the continuum of what's happening creatively. And, and I second part is what, what's your relationship like with Robin? Like, are you a big reader of hers? How do you feel about the fact that she won't have that platform anymore? I'm sure she'll have another one. Who knows where Shonda, but curious. Yeah, I mean, I deeply miss Virgil as a human and his body of work as well, because I would absolutely love to see his commentary on everything that's going on right now. It's deeply missed. I think there was an irony to some of his work as well that was helpful in processing for me anyways.

13:33I'm very happy that Robin took on that book. And, you know, he's such a seminal figure in culture and fashion. And she's the perfect person to write it. I'm shocked and saddened that she's leaving the Washington Post. But I'm also extremely excited to see what she's going to do next. Obviously, she must have some sort of plan. I was grateful when she became a culture critic instead of just a fashion critic not to write fashion in any way but her voice and her way of thinking and being and processing and sharing I think is so huge that we just need to have her in as much of a way and and commenting on as many different things as possible so yeah I'm excited to see what's next for her I would love another book.

14:24Yeah, she makes I agree. I was really excited when she broadened her scope because she's really good at observing people and and sort of getting to the heart of why a person is the way they are. And that's often in the current role, politicians and and sort of broader cultural figures. But yeah, I think whatever it's really, she didn't have to take this. Like a lot of the people who work there have to take this because it's probably their only chance of, you know, getting it. As she said in her post, it was a good amount of money. And if you've worked there for 10 years, this, this could be sort of your, your way out of a situation that I think there is a lot of opportunity at the Washington Post, but it's going to be a really tough few years.

15:20And and she left once before to work at the Daily Beast, and then she was at the cut and then ended up going back. And yeah, I think it's it is in a way very brave of her, not because she won't be able to find a million other places to to share her work. She will. She's, you know, best in class, but more because that's, you know, the safety of, of somewhere where, you know, that, that you have security or what have you. So it's, it's really exciting and we wish her the best. I hope she, she's been on the podcast before. I hope she comes back on and, and I'm really excited to see where she takes it.

16:04And I hope she also enjoys this time just talking about the book with people. She has lots of book tour stuff and different appearances and things. And the other thing when she has to file, I think her filing day is Tuesdays in the afternoon, once a week, forever. When you don't have that for a while, I think it really can change your perspective and also give her time to think about what book is next. Because it's been interesting. I read the book in the spring. And then having my husband read it, who knows a lot about the fashion industry because of being married to me, but he's really enjoyed it.

16:50And I think the book is going to have a really long tail as well. Is there one topic that you wish that she would write her next book about? That's a good question. I think honestly, I would love something about the culture of Washington, D.C. Simply because it's not the, you know, people are politics junkies, but for people who don't, it is, it's much, it's all these sort of company towns or industry, really like specific industries, the way people operate there is so different than anything I've ever experienced in, in my life because of the, it's just a very unique place. And I don't know if it's a history or if it's, if it's right now or, or what it is, but something about how people are there and, and how they, it's just a very different way of thinking than, than anywhere that I, any kind of worlds I frequent.

18:01And so I would be interested in something, just having that experience of being there for so long. And, and, but also she lived in New York for a long time. She's from, I believe she's from Michigan. Having that, I think would be interesting. I, I, I'm sure she gets pitched to do a Michelle Obama book a lot, but I think that's probably talking about nostalgia to too much in the past. Yeah. I don't know that we need that from her and, and, and I agree. I think a Washington book would be great. I would love her perspective on that. What would you want?

18:45um you know actually i guess i would blend somewhere between the two i think that she could do a really great job sort of examining fashion's relationship to politics yeah you know because i think that there's there's a lot there and people don't think about that as much but you know when we think about even like anna or tory or lauren cedro domingo i mean there is a lot of bleed. And that could make for an interesting book. Yeah. And she is certainly the authority. I agree.

19:27Speaking of fashion and politics, where are you at with all this tariff stuff? How tough? I know you run like 15 businesses. Yeah, I mean, the tariffs are true hell. I think when I think about the tariffs, I really think of the CFDA and our responsibility there, to be honest with you. When people ask like, you know, what the CFDA is working on, what the CFDA does, I think we think so much about programming and people don't really think about issues like the tariffs, which is what's keeping me awake at night as it relates to American designers and our ability to sort of compete in the marketplace right now, which is already so hard with the fast fashion brands and all of that jazz.

20:17So I think to me, it's really trying to figure out how can we get some carve outs here. And it's tough because the tariffs are such a moving target, right? No one really wants to make huge moves because he just changes his mind all the time. Every day is a new day. Every week is a different country that gets some, you know, crazy tariff or lack thereof. So it's really challenging. But, you know, I think it's absolutely critical that apparel and... And I just, it's already so hard to produce in America. Yeah. If he doesn't understand, I don't know. I'm pretty speechless on it, but nevertheless, we need a break.

21:09Yeah. We've barely covered it because of the fact that I just am like, we say one thing. we don't have advice on this. Let's cover this as much as we can from the perspective that we can give new insights when available. But I think what this is really going to do, we both know that equipment is not available. The thing that I think people don't understand is there is equipment that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars that has not been available in this country for decades. And it's not like that money, money is going to just, it's just impossible. There's no reshoring or what. No, no. I mean, it's ridiculous.

21:54And it would also be so expensive. Who are you going to hire? You know, who are you going to hire to make all of this stuff? Exactly. Especially as, as everyone who would want the job is being escorted out of the country. So, I mean, to me, I don't try to say I know if there's like a big grand plan, but it's just going to weaken the country and weaken the people who work at these places and run these businesses. And that is, that is to me, the dangerous thing is the sort of weakening of the overall system by implementing these outrageous things. And so it's frustrating and it must be. Yeah, you just you have a lot of a lot of weight on your shoulders at a lot of different angles.

22:47I understand why you are enjoying your time on the weekends thrifting. Yeah, I mean, even because there's something called a GOA, which is our free trade agreement or was our free trade agreement with a lot of African countries that was, I mean, Brother Valleys would not be what it is today if a GOA didn't exist, you know, and I've been writing letters and doing everything I can in support of a GOA for years. And I'm so grateful that we've been able to do free trade with these, you know, African countries that really need the work. And the idea that that's also gone is crazy. Yeah. Yes. Maybe we can talk about one fun thing.

23:30OK, so it's not going to be Travis Kelsey's GQ cover, right? We don't have to. Do you want to talk? OK, that one's not fun. That's why. what what so it did give I loved it you did why tell me what what did it what did it bring up in you did you love it like as a woman and you're like no I'm I'm not I personally am not into him like he's a he's a cute guy but I don't understand like how you could he see he does not seem he's not he I'm he's not for me but um no I'm not like I didn't think he looked like cute on it or whatever. I hope no one thought he looked sexy, but I would say here's why I liked it.

24:13A, I loved the styling. I love that they pulled Law Roach to do it. Like it was so funny and, and it was just so, it was really the like Law Roach's talents. I, that's the best. I mean, obviously he does an amazing job with Zendaya, but this is the best thing I've ever seen. Like Like the push pull between the two. I really love. Was very good. That that was very good. And there was a humor to it that I really appreciated. Yeah. And I also thought that. The thing about magazines now is it's all studio shots. It's all studio or it's in the city or whatever. There are very few covers that aren't like that.

25:03that aren't, you know, aren't just super standardized. And they went on location and they obviously didn't go on fancy location. They went to like swamps and stuff. And that to me, it showed an ambition of we have a limited budget. How can we make this special and unique? And that to me was exciting. What did you not like about it that it looked like the January 6th guy? literally that like I opened my Instagram and I was like ah like what is this and listen I'm not visually familiar enough with Travis Kelsey to look at that cover and be like oh it's Travis Kelsey so I was just like is this a weird January 6th cover like it literally was that for me that threw me off and then I don't know when I compare that to like Michaela Cole's cover which is just like so divine, you know?

25:57Yeah. I mean, these are very different purposes. But to your point, the styling on that GQ story that Law did was phenomenal and really fun. It was really fun. I did like the Michaela Cole cover a lot in Aliyah on British Vogue. I thought it was really special and was the first cover that Shoma has done that I was like, wow, this is like what she wants to do with this magazine is coming through. And that's very exciting. I agree. I totally agree. So you didn't look at the Taylor Swift life as a showgirl album cover? No. It's funny, Lauren, that doesn't make it into my algo. I understand. You know, it barely makes it into mine, Aurora.

26:45Really? No, I'm not. It's not my vibe. Yeah, I don't know. I I mean, I love all of this for Taylor. It's just, to me, some of this feels like a distraction. And I don't know, it's like, what is she supposed to do? Not put out an album? I think we need it economically, to be honest. We need her on tour. But also, I don't know, there's just a lot going on in society right now. I mean, if her being on tour means that she's going to engage in a little bit more political commentary right now that the Swifties can tune into, then I'm all for it. Okay. Here is a final question for you that is extremely deep and you won't be able to answer in less than like 45 minutes, but do you think it really works?

27:33Like what works now to get people to change their minds or act? Because that is the thing that I don't understand. Like, other than if you have an influential podcast, that seems to help a little bit, but that's still not that many people. Like people think these podcasts are changing, shifting elections. There's not that many people listening to them. There's a good amount, but it's not. You're listening to like-minded people on podcasts. Your mind isn't getting changed. Yeah. If you're listening to podcasts, you're probably already a registered voter. Yes. And so what do you think? Do you really think someone like Taylor Swift being more politically active can help?

28:21I think it depends on how she does it and when she does it, right? I think that people are inherently kind of selfish, right? So if they realize that there's issues that are specifically connected to them and their lives that are actually going to be impacted, then it can help. Right? It's like, who is the big podcaster that's like so upset about IVF that voted for Trump? Andrew Trump, I guess. Like, if you take someone like that, where he's like, yeah, I mean, Trump's crazy. He wants all these things that are crazy. But he said he was going to help with IVF. And like me and my wife really needed that, you know, IVF is important.

29:05People have to feel like really personally connected to a topic. And I think that Taylor's good at understanding like what, you know, her girls are really lit up by. So yeah, I mean, I think it all has to work together. I think there's no one podcast that's going to solve the issue. But when you watch a show like Love Island, for example, it's very easy for you to realize that like so many Americans just couldn't care less. It's not even on their radar at all. So there has to be different inroads to make people want to care to show up in some capacity. Okay, final question. Do you think that if the cost of stuff keeps rising, people will finally realize that all these policies are not good for them?

29:55Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I think they will. He is smart, though. So, you know, he's very good at spin. And I think a lot of the problems that he's creating we're actually not going to feel for a few more years. and I think he's gamed out that timing very well. Aurora, thank you for being here. I'll probably see you in a couple weeks in New York. It's something. Yes, absolutely. I'll see you soon. It's so fun. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gobby Grossman.

30:45An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Bob Tabador.