Fashion Is Transformed

0:03Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman Rudder of Puck's fashion and beauty memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is interview editor-in-chief Mel Ottenberg to discuss the best of fashion month and plenty more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more.

0:52If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. I hope you had a great week back at home or wherever you went post Paris. I went to a Kia something, some stadium to see Haim last night with my friend Molly. Shout out to my concert friend Molly. I also went to see one battle after another in VistaVision. So I'm feeling settled back into my Los Angeles life. I was a little depressed on Tuesday. I thought it might be the come down from Paris. Usually I'm like very excited to get back, but there's something sad about coming back this week.

1:38And but then I realized as I was getting my phone repaired at the Americana at Brand in Glendale, which I was like, how did I end up here? Realized I didn't have my phone for 24 hours and was not getting the dopamine hit of messaging with you all. So that is probably what it was. I need my phone. It's part of my job. Anyway, this week on Lime Sheet, you'll find plenty of the work I was doing and DMing with you about in Europe. On Thursday, I have a bunch of little baby scoops about different things that are happening in retail and beyond investors. who's Nina Kristen's investor? I found out for you.

2:24And then also I kind of did a tale of two designer debuts and just looking at like the context of Chanel and then also Dior and what those two things mean in the greater fashion industry, that sort of thing. anyway usually by this time of the season i'm kind of sick of talking about fashion shows but chanel and dior and a few others were really consequential and i think will be a big driver of what happens next in the industry so check that out we've got plenty more coming next week and if you have any requests on what you want me to cover please message I'm always available definitely if you don't have my phone number just DM me on Instagram or email me on lauren at puck.news and let's get going with Mel as always it was such a pleasure

3:25Mel Ottenberg welcome back to Fashion People hey Lauren thanks so much for having me back third time third time's the charm I love this end of fashion month you're on the hook forever forever I'm really on the hook here It's hard because I have to be Switzerland, but I also love to have fun. And I'm burned out beyond comprehension. So the whole thing together is a roller coaster that I really enjoy, Lauren. You're the perfect person for it. Unfortunately, we're not going to have the drama, I don't think, as we did last year when Demna was announced at Gucci. Yes, I loved that. Exactly. That was real.

4:04And I feel like everything that I predicted has already come true, Lauren. You know what I wish we could do, but I didn't prepare this. Look back at your predictions and we could like play them like the dream sequence, looking back and then see if you were right. But what do you recall predicting that was correct? Well, listen, fashion people, listeners. Okay, last time, Lauren and I were doing this pod the day after the shows and they announced Demna as the designer. Shock and awe. Wow, crazy. and I was like this is I think I think I said this this is is going to be really good he's going to do a really good job he's going to grow up and leave the like the like over street style grungy part of Demna behind and do something amazing and it's like such an amazing once in a lifetime opportunity for one of the best designers in the world and now look what happened Gucci oh and then everyone then on everyone online I want to remind everyone of this I want to remind And all the listeners, everyone online starts being like, caring stock drops.

5:12You know, caring is in trouble because of Demna. It's all Demna. It's all because of Demna because they've made such a horrible business decision. Don't listen to the internet. Don't listen to the internet. Come on. It's like, also, that always seemed dumb. But also, it's fun to just watch someone work and then really tear it. And six months later, the last couple, the last 10 years of Gucci, frankly, the amazing and the not so amazing have been sort of cleared out for a new vision. And that's really impressive. And I'm really here for it. I am really here for it. Also really here for the fact that this Jackie bag, he like fixed this bag and now it's selling out like crazy.

5:54So not only was the collection good and the presentation respectable and interesting and got people talking, but like the product is selling, which is exactly what you want. And, you know, the carrying stock is up like 68 percent since the arrival of CEO Luca DiMaio, who is was out and about in Fashion Week. We're big fans. He was he's pretty fab. Double breasted suit. Absolutely. It's working. and in the speed of light. I mean, six months ago, Demna was doing his last gigantic Balenciaga show and now he's changed Gucci and the bags are selling like crazy. What to you, A, did you have fun at the movie by Spike Jonze and baby girl director, I think her name is Hajin.

6:46Is that how you pronounce it? Were you there? Did you get in town yet already? Well, I actually didn't get to Milan until the very end. Helena. Helena Rain is her name. I saw it in New York, which is crazy, and I had major FOMO. What I mostly had FOMO about was just the glamour of all the stars and the red carpet and all that. It just looked so good. But yes, I saw the movie, but in New York and not there. And it looked like such a moment. And it was so confident and smart, you know? It was really cute and fun and very relaxed. Like they had a big runway thing for Demi and Gwyneth and all those people.

7:32But like it was really all the executives were just hanging out. Demna was just hanging out. Like Spike Jonze was there. It was very, very chill. And then it was 30 minutes, 30 minutes, little short film that was weird with actually good performances. And and it was fun and it really displayed the clothes. And I'm sure they did this in New York, too. They had models like sitting in the audience in the looks that were on screen. I don't know if they did that in New York, but it was really smart. It like made it feel very three dimensional and or four dimensional. It was a really nice way to kick off Milan Fashion Week, which feels like the beginning of all of this.

8:20Absolutely. I also want to say what I also thought was really cool was doing really over-the-top beaded thing on Demi Moore, and then a really straight, normal suit on Ed Norton. Like having Ed Norton in the mix of this is so genius because it shows this like really straight, normal Hollywood guy that's never going to take a chance looking great in this brand too. You know what I mean? It like really signifies this solid thing that can be for a lot of different people. Yeah. That's very good. Very smart. What direction do you think he's going to take the runway? I think he's going to, I don't know.

9:02Well, I'm not really thinking so much about the runway as I think that the clothes, there's going to be a really adult thing that we're all going to want. Yeah. I think there's going to be tailoring that we all want. I think there's going to be real desire for real clothes mixed in with the fantasy. Yeah. I think a big theme maybe this season or just generally is like this idea of elegance. Like defining elegance in this age where we all, I mean we don't, but like a lot of people just wear stretch pants all day long. Yeah. I wore my Mel jeans yesterday to school drop off, by the way. Thank you.

9:49I really appreciate that. I bet your butt looked really good. It did. Yeah. I... You know, I love trashy. I love elegant. Right now it feels like we all need a little bit of elegance because the world is so disgusting. Yeah. What did you think about the fact that really no designers other than Alessandra McKaylee addressed what was happening in the world? It didn't bother me because I'm like, when I'm in Europe, I'm also in a whole other, like I basically am living a double life, having a different, I'm in a totally different mind space than in my real life. so I wasn't thinking in the context of that but it was interesting there was no design other designer that I talked to or heard about that like literally commented on what's happening in the world right now which is is is real really bad yeah and also you know we think as Americans that it's all us and any and in the many conversations that I have with Europeans it's not really just, it's so bad in America right now, I mean my personal opinion is it's very bad all European conversations reminded me that it's not much better there, you know so it's not, it's really it's really a spreading problem, fascism and kudos to Alessandro for addressing that, I also don't think that kind of was glad that we were looking at fashion shows with clothes most of the time, because if you can't, if you, if you're just worrying about how to address that, I think it just inhibits people from actually getting the job done that they have to get done.

11:36And I think that it's really important for culture and fashion and stuff to stay alive in this, you know, bullshit present that we're in. Yeah. Okay. So jumping over to a collection that really wasn't about clothes, that was very interesting in Paris, Jean-Paul Gaultier, Duran Lantic. What did you think about this collection? I have thoughts, but I'm curious. It's sort of the opposite of what you're talking about. It wasn't really, I can't think of one look that I know how they're going to sort of translate that to something someone would actually wear well as a when i was a when i was in 10th grade i discovered junior gautier maybe it came out when i was in 10th grade i just remember realizing it existed and that i could buy 110 john paul gautier t-shirt and uh and then i was like made fun of and i snuck out and i went to nightclub i used to sneak out and go to clubs and these other kids in the nightclub were making fun of me for wearing junior goatee because it wasn't real goatee i mean these wait wait mean mean world washington dc club oh yeah and these kids i guess you know did whatever they had to do to get the runway stuff but anyway true story but then i was like okay that was i feel like it was really cute that he was doing this junior goatee moment that It was very Gaultier, but like a more playful, serious, and wearable, more commercial, like lower line stuff.

13:12And so I haven't seen what the commercial collection is, but I think it's fun to go in that sort of club wear, stretchy, cut and sew kind of direction. And I think that the runway show was very evocative of the spirit of Jean-Paul Gaultier. and I thought it was really funny and fun. And also for me, by the way, if you feel the absolute opposite and think it's the most disgusting show ever, I think that that's great. I just think it's cool for the more internet and real life scolds about the show, the more I think it's really fun for whoever really gets into this. You know, this is not for everyone else.

13:54You guys are all classy. I want to be trashy in this stuff. Yeah, my feeling about it, I loved his final collection for his brand where he sent out like it was very like skewed patrician clothing. And then he put a man in rubber boobs and a woman in a chair. Like I thought it was funny and enjoyed it. This. OK, so this is my feeling. It was very slick. And I love the red and white striped little molded piece. because I could see as someone who was not wearing Jean-Paul Gaultier to clubs outside of the greater D.C. metropolitan area in the early 90s, I could see the Gaultier, like it felt there was something there.

14:42I wished that there was like a little, I think it's funny and gross and interesting and in a way that made, and he's very, it was very tight. so I think that like Becky and I were talking about Jodie Barnes the other day on the pod I think Jodie Barnes is just such a good stylist but I wish there was a little bit more for me like a basic B who lives on the east side of Los Angeles to hook into because I do find the commentary but it was a good, I think it was like an amazing first start and really interesting that you are from dc because i there is something going on there's like a whole crew of my my bff leia chernikoff is also from the area and talking to siddhartha shukla who's at lomban right now he's from there and then obviously michael rider is a dc guy so so let's talk you're from the same please talia chet with michael writer and i are from the exact same area and talia chetrit a photographer that's very in demand is also from there and our and our siblings were friends in elementary school what do we think is happening that there's this like little cluster of dc there's not one there's not a pittsburgh crew i don't know i don't know i have no answer for that This is like when Russia came out of the blue.

16:16You know what I mean? Like, what's going on here? I think it's probably nothing. And it's just like there are four of you that are within the 10-year age range of each other. Okay, but let's talk, Celine. What did you think about your hometown hero? Yeah, I thought it was great. And honestly, when Michael and I realized that we were from the exact, exact, exact same neighborhood, I was like, damn. Okay, what? Oh, wow. Okay. But yes, Long Way From DC, I was so impressed with the Celine show, with his second show. It looked great. I liked the evolution from this summer to this fall. It was really confident.

16:54The clothes looked great. The men's looked great. The women's looked great.

17:00The way the looks were put together looked great. There was just a lot of desire for real clothes. I would also say, I want to just say, I love the Gautier thing. I love the fantasy, but I'm also on the flip side, really looking for real clothes that look good that people would want to buy that are that are going to change someone's life a little bit for the better. And that was that whole show. Looks so good. Totally. And this is what you do with your magazine. I got home late early, early morning yesterday and was greeted to a lot of print media sent to me. And I got the Sabrina Carpenter issue of interview and I was just looking through it.

17:38And it's just like the paper stock, the size, but also just every single thing you put in there is just so fun. It's so fun to read. It really does feel like a newspaper of our culture right now. And it just feels so good. So I see it in your magazine that you're looking for the fantasy, but also the reality of how we live now. And I thought Michael did a good job of that, too. The other interesting thing that's happening with all these guys and one lady is that they're all like so many of the designers right now are born between 80 and 84. I'm 82, so I feel like very connected. And I saw a connection between Michael Selene and Dario Vitale at Versace in that, like, this was Versace obviously happened before the second Selene collection.

18:39But the first Celine collection reminded me of reminded me of like 1980s New York, Willie Smith, like it was Spiegel catalog, Americanism. And then Dario with Versace. It was like 1980s Milan. What his mom wore. What kids were wearing then. What did you think of Versace? I'm totally into Versace. I also sadly was not in Milan then. like I had this I just had some stuff going on that I couldn't be there until the very end so many editors were like I can't believe you are not at Versace I looked for you because it was so you and it really is I love it I love it it's one of my favorite it's one of my favorite collections also don't listen don't believe all the hate you read on you see on the internet there's all these corny people I'm sorry for calling you corny people but but like people being like it's not Versace it's like have you do you know anything before 2018 kid because this is very Versace and it's cool and I'd love I'd like I want to see Dario cook I think he's good and I hope he gets the chance to cook because that is cool and Versace doesn't look cool like that in a long time and it's Johnny Versace who's really one of the greatest designers of my lifetime and and has been pretty dormant um for a while because Donatello Versace is a designer that we respect and love very much too and never really did Johnny Versace, her brother, for reasons that make sense.

20:12But this guy, Dario, is going right back to the OG and taking inspo from that. And it's one of the greatest places for inspo ever. Yes. Yes. 100%. It was so great. So fun. It made me so happy. In the last two years, something that's happened on the internet where there are these instant reactions of, and this has always existed, but it's, it's more intense now. And it's funny because there's no more Twitter. So I don't understand. Sometimes I'm like, how do I even know that people don't like, or people like this collection because I'm not on Twitter anymore. I used to be on Twitter constantly and I haven't been on Twitter in three years or whatever.

20:58So, but there's like a visceral instinct to sort of explode on something and a lot of it is happening to me on like Instagram DM people just being like this is sucks this is the worst this is blah blah blah and it's like pull back and just let it happen and see I it the Dario thing really reminded me of Alessandro's first Gucci collection because I was not in Milan and seeing it online I remember thinking like, whoa, this is not good. And I, I, and then you realized like it's genius and it's going to change fashion forever. I don't know if Dario's collection is going to change fashion forever, but what it did make me feel was like, okay, this is a new, new proposition and kids are going to want to buy these jeans and women are going to want to buy these dresses and everyone's going to want to buy these shoes and and we need like we need to feel something and and that's what I think what he did that and Demna was the Gucci premiere was amazing you just felt like he got this Demna is on it but to have Versace a couple days later and to have a new person come in and remember that like, oh, not everyone has the exact same POV.

22:20He's like only entering the system as a creative director. So there's all this newness of how he's approaching it. And I just loved it. I was so happy for everyone involved that it was great. I was happy for Donatella. I was happy for Dario. I was happy for Mucha Prada. I was happy for the executives of Versace. I just think like they have a real chance to transform that business with, with him. And it just felt so good. And I hope that like everybody starts wearing teal capri pants or whatever. I, that would be ironic if everyone starts wearing look one Versace because everyone hated on that look so much.

23:02I, it was my favorite personally, but yes, I, I agree. I, I'm, I'm here for it. I think it's really interesting and it's definitely done. with a sense of humor to the whole thing, which I think is great. Yeah.

23:21So another kind of iconic brand that was reconstituted with a lot of homage to earlier era was Jill Sander, which Simone Bellotti, who was our Bally bro, was recruited by otb taken there and he really took i'd say like the essence he was really looking at 90s jill sander for for from from what i could tell from from inspiration and like trying to figure out like what does this brand mean in this era what do you think like because i've been I'm talking a lot about minimalism and it's so hard with these brands of that time because they are so referenced now and have been. People never stopped referencing Jill Sander and Helmut Lang and Margiela and Calvin and all that stuff.

24:23And so to modernize them and make them feel like they are of this time and not just a copy of the past is really complicated. I'm curious what you think of what he did, but also just approaching those kinds of brands generally and how to make it work. I think that for all of these brands, it really just depends on who the creative director is and if it's a good casting. I think that he is well cast for Jill Sander. It just makes sense for him to be there. I think that to me, it's important to remember the taste and the codes of Jill Sander because it's so signature. What's the point of the brand existing if it's like some completely different thing?

25:15Because also all of her tastes and codes and all that, there's still so much room in fashion and people's wardrobes for that, you know? Yeah. It just sort of works. I want to see clean lines and minimalism from Jill Sander, period. That's what I want to see. I want to see there's room for artistic stuff and segues. But at the end of the day, that's what I think the business should be for that brand to be a success. And I think he's well cast. And the show looked cool. Yeah. I like him. Yeah, I like him. It was good. I feel like we've talked about it way too much on this podcast so we can move on Jacob and I talked about it for like 30 minutes Becky and I discussed it we've done enough for the Joe Sander brand for now I was talking to Simone about the collection at the Valentino show and I'm so tired that I can't even remember what he said I know I also went backstage really useless no i mean i went backstage and he he had a very nice presentation of what he did and huge respect i i think i'm excited for next season for that one i think it will be he's really good like he doesn't have the you can tell he's not like super comfortable being a creative director in terms of like being out and about like he's just a dude like it's not like he's like wants to be on the the red carpet at the bof 500 or whatever but which is an interesting thing to just see that develop but i think he's done he's just so confident about his abilities that that part of it is shining through and it's an interesting it's fun to see all these people like in these new roles and how they manage them yeah um speaking of let's talk about Dior quickly and and what Jonathan did there and what you think he's trying to accomplish because he made a lot of people think that's what I would say like there was a lot I can't stop thinking about it I can't stop kind of hemming and hawing over whether or not I liked it or not or what parts of it I liked and what I didn't I think he really like touched a nerve and that's gutsy at a big brand like that where he could have just sent down a bunch of very cute bar jackets and we would have all been like ah i was talking to a uh cmo of a big store like a big department store who's really into it who we were talking about like the mini skirts the all the short stuff both the poof and the sort of like simple brandy melville vibe but like he was saying like oh all the stuff's gonna do so well for us we're buying it really big for this because it's the first time that it's been this Dior thing and simple fabrics it's really cool and we think that the girls are gonna go crazy for it those were those are the looks that I've been most thinking about those like mini skirt tiny poof things I think that's really cool and I I just think I think it's gonna do well I think it's gonna be a thing that's a really hard that's a hard brand and he's like i don't know it's just like he's gonna do good stuff there he i mean he's brilliant he's gonna do good stuff i love this personally love the shoes and i will buy a pair of them like they were they were really good and i'm interested i'm interested in a bar jacket like i would like to see what his commercial proposal for the bar jacket is and yeah maybe I've been looking for bar jackets on the RealReal.

29:07I want one. I feel like that silhouette is a little curvier. That's what I'm looking for right now is a little bit of an hourglass silhouette in a jacket. And I would like to see, I know he did them kind of, I don't want to say deconstructed, but in a different shape. I would like to see what his classic take on the bar jacket is. And I'm sure that'll be in stores. But he really pushed it. And that it is just such I was talking to my boss about this and you'll read about this in line sheet on Thursday. Dior is just a much harder brand than Chanel. Like not not taking away from the amazingness of Chanel, which we will leave for the grand finale.

29:47And I'm still can't get over it. I just can't stop thinking about it. But Dior is a hard brand. There aren't that many codes. It was a 10 year period where and then you have this like John Galliano era. You have Maria Grazia area of Raph era. But like what he had the like pure of what he has has to work with is so vast and yet so narrow. And and there's so much. I mean, also, this is the first time it's been sort of all together. There was one Dior. The one Dior strategy is finally kind of coming through. I find him incredibly compelling and just amazing. Like, think about you call Adam Curtis and you say, I want to do a documentary about this house.

30:39And I'm going to display it at a runway show in front of all my bosses and the world. And that's like fucking gutsy shit. Like, I'm just he's he's amazing. He's really amazing. I loved the Adam Curtis doc thing at the beginning. I don't know. I really can't stop thinking about the show. And I'm more, even some of the stuff that I wasn't as into, I'm really into now. And I can't wait to start playing with it. Because I'm just a fan. And I think it's one of the most interesting shows. It's going to be, I see it in interviews so clearly. Like I see you using it. Me too. Okay, so back on Jonathan's old stomping ground, where the American guys, they did it.

31:36They did an exclamation point. They did an exclamation point. I will say I haven't felt energy, like just real fast fashion show energy, like the energy at Jack McCullough and Lazaro Hernandez's first Lueve show all year. Like that felt like the best energy. Fast Girls, incredible music. I really liked the clothes. It was what I wanted to see. And people were loving on it. And it was like a real, that was just a great moment. I love the clothes. I love the booty shoes. Apparently someone told me they're going to have six, the little booty shoes, they'll come with six different colored socks. So you can swipe them in and out, which is such a little clever idea.

32:29I love them. I love the bags. Like they took this bag called the, I think it's the Amazona. Cause I looked it up and I was like, Oh, what bag is that? It's a bag that's been around Loewe forever, but they softened it up. And the thing that they are so good at, I mean, color, obviously. Shape, obviously. Clear ideas, obviously. Like, this is all the stuff that really came to the forefront. But the other thing that they are very good at is, like, that sort of, Becky talks about this a lot because she does a lot of personal styling. She has clients. And I hear it from friends of mine who are, like, industry adjacent or don't work in the industry but are interested in fashion.

33:15Like the reason people liked Proenza Schooler and shopping it was that it looked really sophisticated and cool, but it also fit and looked sexy and relaxed and was easy to put on. And I thought the dresses that they did with the Loewe scarves, like the black dress, which is like so every woman in Spain, all they wear is black dresses with like the bright scarf kind of coming out. It felt very Jack and Lazaro, but also of Loewe and that like loose, like relaxed thing, even though very sporty. And that bag that they did, which is like a box bag, they made it very it like I could see everyone's looking for a laptop bag right now.

33:55I could see women carrying that as their main bag. It's almost like a relaxed suitcase or something. um i was very i was just of course happy for them but also just very impressed and i really liked it like i wanted stuff too and that that feels good yeah i really liked the uh i went and did a reesee and the quality is so cool and there's just i don't know that's just very graphic it feels like very american luxury to me as well american luxury fashion like which is incredible when it works and uh and it was just a great moment and it's a great question

34:41should you talk balenciaga real quick balenciaga i love balenciaga some people really didn't like balenciaga that are like in my trusted circle people yeah i really liked it i just thought i i thought of my mother when i was at the balenciaga show my mother is you know someone who always shop fashion and felt abandoned by fashion uh when consuela left marnie and phoebe left celine and just was like i don't know what what to shop anymore i don't know what to look for birdurfs and sacks and stuff and so then i just felt like i liked i liked how balenciaga looked very luxury and it looked very far away from um it looked very far away from uh Demna's Balenciaga, which I was always a big fan of.

35:29I agree with you. I was reading the line sheet, and I think that some call-outs like the big glasses and the flip-flops, which I don't think they're not Pierpaolo. They kind of are very Pierpaolo, but they're also very Demna, and I would have loved to have not seen those things. Just like, I'm really into things that are just going to feel real different from what they felt like a year ago. Like, it's 2025. Like, let's push it all forward. To make someone die to go shopping. Yes. We need to make people be like, oh, all my stuff sucks. I need to start anew. Yeah, yeah. I was talking to a person we both know and love who's a former editor-in-chief who has, like, the best taste ever.

36:14And she was saying, she's like, I love that first look. I would wear this in a second. And I think, yeah, the glasses and the flip flops, I agree. I could see him doing that on a Valentino runway easy. It just, to me, took me out of it. I was like, I don't need this from you right now. I need these dresses from you. And he delivered on those. And I also think there was this one dress that the dress, it was like an archival 60s print, but it was knitted together. It was like a knit dress in the middle. and I wanted to ask about it. Kathy Horn asked first, so she won and she also knew it was a 60s archival print from the Balenciaga archives, which I would have not known.

36:59But that was the dress to me that I was like, oh shit, this dress doesn't like fit with the rest of the dresses in a way, but like this is what to me is what he shows what he's capable of and what's special about him. And I just thought, I thought that the dresses were gorgeous and I also loved that they did it at the caring headquarters. I thought, I love that space. That was where they did the Devna exhibition. And I also just, I love the caring headquarters. They're so amazing. And it's just like this, you know, ancient building. And it felt like, it wasn't the smallest show in the world, but it felt very intimate.