Gold Standard

19:23Charlotte Chesnais:more than six months ago you buy a kilo of gold 90 000 euro so triple but triple in 10 years but still triple yes and then today in six months due to like the world we live in now we almost reach almost 140 ,000 euro kilo. Unless in six months. Wow. Yes. So... Nightmare.

19:52Lauren:It's a nightmare. Go behind the scenes of one of TV's most watched true crime series with the 48 Hours Postmortem Podcast where correspondents and producers take you inside each case. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours And then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, every Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

20:28Lauren:Let's rewind back to that beginning and you had a lot of interest from buyers immediately. I know fine jewelry they tend to do it's it's based on um you like operate a consignment right so like you make everything you pay for everything you send it to them they it sits in the store they take a commission if you sell it was your other jewelry when you started that was vermeil and um silver were you on consignment for that as well or no that was a wholesale operation.

21:04Charlotte Chesnais:It was a simple wholesale business and I couldn't afford being on a consignment because basically consignment you explain but you sell the goods to the sellers and when they sell it you get paid. So if let's say you produce and you ship three months later and then it's getting sold six months later it means for nine months you don't get paid. so this it's an exercise that people can do but at that time i couldn't do it because i didn't have the money yeah everything was based on like wholesale business so you sell and then they sell they resell but yeah and it really helped my company to grow because people really really play the game and yeah wholesaler were buying and then i could launch my production and i don't have this you know financial like fluid to deal with uh regarding fine jewelry business it's a different way because of course it's much more expensive and it's a very uh it's a cash consumer so yeah most some i would say really depends on your connection with the wholesaler and your also your track record but basically usually they're like yeah we love the collection we'd love to have it we want like i don't know 25 pieces of this and 10 of this and da da da oh by the way uh we are on the consignment term so it means i put all the money in it i invest my money in it i produce i send the pieces and eventually when you sell i get paid but this is a rule it's not a it's not the only rule it's it's it's usual it happens quite a lot yeah and You decide to play the game or you don't decide to play the game.

22:51Lauren:It makes the barrier for entry in this market higher than in fashion.

22:57Charlotte Chesnais:Super difficult. This is why I waited 10 years to launch Fine Jewelry as well.

23:02Lauren:And so when you started and you got such amazing feedback, why do you think it hit so quickly? Because I remember when it launched and it was just like everybody wanted it immediately, like the rings and the earrings. and it was, I feel like maybe it was sold at Dover Street in the US and it was just like immediately desirable.

23:27Charlotte Chesnais:You know, I think the things that really put the light on the project was also the fact that press was very curious about what the ex-Balenciaga studio were actually doing today. So of course it helps a lot. I remember the first article in the style.com ah do you remember who wrote it i i don't oh my god i should but i don't remember but i remember being on the first page like which i was surprised because it was basically like every morning i was checking style.com and then i was on the first page and the title was like something like oh what x like jewelry designer from balenciaga nicolas jesquière is doing now yeah for sure it helps a lot and then regarding the the the desire of like the what the pieces like express i told i mean it's such a personal project that i really wanted these pieces to be i don't know they come from from my brand and i i try them on so much and i love them so much i really want to wear them myself so i guess this is why maybe it's it works like this i'm not a jewelry lover originally i don't collect like vintage jewelry of course i like it but before launching my brand i was not wearing so many jewelry and i became part of myself um like another piece of clothes in the end and it's not that i have so many girls that contact me and they say like i never wore jewelry before or i'm not a jewelry girl but with you i want to have it i want to wear it and I can't really explain this but I think there's just not a lot on the market as someone

25:07Lauren:who I feel that way I have very few few pieces and there's just not a lot on the market that feels especially new stuff that feels like my style there's a few brands that I really connect with including yours. But generally, it's either like a little cheesy or a little too feminine, or it doesn't feel original. And it's not, I don't know if we were sort of trained, I think now this generation is buying more jewelry. But I also think, curious what you think. I've written a lot about the sort of unbranded jewelry market versus the big brands. And comparing it to fashion, why are the big brands in jewelry so powerful?

26:04Lauren:And do they make it harder for independent brands to sort of grow and become home, you know, brand names?

26:17Charlotte Chesnais:Household names. I mean, to answer in a different way to your question, yes, it's hard. And I'm not even thinking about competing with them because we don't even play in the same courtyard. Yeah. I think to the jewelry, I really think it has a very, a very lot of similarity with like car business. It's a sign of richness of who you belong to. Are you like the blue box at Tiffany? Are you the red box at Cartier? Do you have the love bracelet? Do you have this watch? Like, what does it say about you? It's really about, it's a status. It's a social status. to me like maybe in in fashion you can have this with a bag yeah but it's really like okay you have what car what kind of car do you have you have a family car you have a coupe you have a break you know and i really feel like i'm talking for the big big big brand of jewelry today which are like quartier tiffany boucheron they are like i don't know less than 10 they compete to i mean the way I see is that it's really about yeah, that the breast lead that costs like 5k and you can find it in any different brand and it says about you like you're going to have one with diamond with no diamond.

27:44Charlotte Chesnais:Of course, we all think about the love, for example. So it's really more about who you belong to, like community less than, I believe, emotional buy.

27:58Lauren:Yeah. And it also feels like because of the prices of the raw materials that like, there's also a thing where the luxury consumer believes that it's an investment versus buying a handbag that's not Hermes or Chanel that can will go down in price.

28:20Charlotte Chesnais:whereas like a piece of fine jewelry they think yeah it is you can you can re re-melt you can redo with gold and diamonds for example forever there's not like i don't know five time or six times that you can melt a ring a gold ring you can really re-melt it forever which you cannot do you cannot do it with any bag i mean i'm sorry but even a chanel bag you cannot like sell just the closure by itself in five years it's cost nothing yeah we cannot just sell the chain which you can do with a piece of jewelry you can you can just take back the diamond and just do another setting you can just like sell the gold that everyone is doing now for example a lot of people have gold or silver in their you know when they need money you actually can resell it super easily so it's true that it's kind of i mean it's the only piece of goods i think that you can buy and then resell and then redo forever.

29:22Charlotte Chesnais:You don't do this with any other kind of object.

29:25Lauren:No. What do you think about the change in the value of diamonds? Do you use any of the man-made diamonds?

29:35Charlotte Chesnais:I don't. I only use it when I do like prototype because then it's allowing me to have a a nice final view without buying immediately the diamonds. So this is where I'm using it. Otherwise, we don't. But we have a personal private project. And people sometimes, they ask for lab. So I have contact and I can sell lab. The way I see lab today is a bit like, you know, if you are vegan and you go in a really nice restaurant, I guess a good chef can provide a very nice vegan menu for you. So I see it a bit like this. Like, I'm not pro or against. My religion will lead me more to, like, natural diamonds.

30:23Charlotte Chesnais:Yeah. If I have a customer who really want to project with lab, I can do it.

30:27Lauren:Yeah.

30:28Charlotte Chesnais:I'm happy to do it for, you know, special order and everything.

30:31Lauren:Yeah, it's so interesting because the value of diamonds is such a kind of construct anyway. Totally. So, yes, yes. So like, but there is something that just I'm all I'm drawn to natural and and feel like I if I'm going to spend, I would like it to be the quote unquote real thing, even though I know that there's no difference.

30:57Charlotte Chesnais:Of course, but in the end, the diamond is selling a piece of dream. It's selling a piece of, I don't know, like a piece of star from the sky. It's a piece of dream that you can wear at your finger or at your ear. If you know it's coming from a lab, where is the dream? So, of course, in the end, everything is marketing because we know that the molecule is the same. But it's just a story you buy. And in the end, I mean, even if it's regarding a diamond that doesn't belong to any brand, But it's when you buy to a brand, you also buy the stories that the brand is selling you.

31:29Lauren:Yeah.

31:30Charlotte Chesnais:And it's the same for diamond and not love diamond to me. It's like, what is it giving you as an emotion? It's about emotion and what you feel about the project. Some people are totally cold about it and they don't care. And they just want something sparkle with the good shininess. And then they will go for lab and it's fine. Or some people will go for more like ecological reason, of course. But in the end, it's really about what you feel and what the emotion, what the pieces are bringing you.

32:21Charlotte Chesnais:It doesn't even look like payments. All over. With Visa Sinceemitic parts.

32:30Lauren:To win the mm Leistung for 30 minutes.

32:39Charlotte Chesnais:Because remember ertpetitRY we took time to understand where we wanna… like, the pool we want to swim in and how much it's going to cost and everything. So we work on the collection for like three years. We released it last year. I was doing fine before, but really on the side. Disregarding like the rest of the collection, I was doing like one of a kind project. I had few, very few collections that I was just doing when I was, you know, oh, let's have this little drop at the store and everything. It was not really built. This collection is more like properly, like the official fine jewelry collection of the brand.

33:19Charlotte Chesnais:I had it in mind for a very long time also because I'm getting older and I want to wear more gold. I don't want to change my jewelry so often. So there's something about the extra juice of the brand. Like what if you just have to wear one ring or two rings instead of changing your ring every day? What would be this ring? And what would be this? Also, I love to work with archetype, like very classical pieces. So what would be your solitaire ring at Charles Chenet? what would be the the you know the pearl necklace like what would be the really pure shot like you know this ginger shot you got in the morning like that wakes you up what would be the essence of the brand if you had to work with only this material and going from a ring that weighed 30 gram to a ring that will weigh 8 gram because of course you cannot afford to go 30 gram I mean you could but you have to also understand the market where you work in.

34:18Charlotte Chesnais:So basically, I was sketching before on a bigger format. And now I'm also challenging myself to be as creative, but on a much more smaller format. I don't know if it makes sense.

34:30Lauren:Yeah, for sure. I think the sort of timelessness and the foreverness of that kind is a different challenge for you as a designer. Yeah. Do you, when you were pricing it, because I was just scanning it, the prices are reasonable. I mean, the diamonds you're using are not giant, but it feels accessible to a woman who has a good job and likes to spend a little bit of money on herself or however you want to do it. How did you figure out the pricing given the extreme costs of the raw materials?

35:17Charlotte Chesnais:Yes, it's a good question. We did a lot of like shopping, not actual shopping, but we looked at so many other brands. And like I said, in the end, if you deep dive a little bit, it's quite not easy to read, but you always end up by having, for example, we realized that every single brand we were benchmarking always used for the entry price a 0.3 cara and not a 0.4, not a 0.2. They all use a 0.3. So because initially I launched my ring with a 0.4 and then we always end up being a little bit too expensive. And then we realized that actually almost all of them were starting with this price because they had this size of stone.

36:04Charlotte Chesnais:So pricing regarding fine is very linked to the amount of gold you use, of course, the amount of cara you use in the stone. So it's kind of a mix of design and mathematics in a way because you always like, for example, I re-challenged my own design because it was too heavy in gold, for example. And I was like, oh, it's still too heavy. And then it ends up being too expensive. So we tried a lot, re-sketching from like what maybe you wouldn't see with your eyes from option A to option, I don't know, M sometimes for some option, for some style. But I redesigned like some of the rings, like, I don't know, maybe 15th time to find the proper ways.

36:50Charlotte Chesnais:But this was in July. I mean, before July. And then, for example, last week, we had some reorder to do and then we realized our price are not good anymore because the raw material is so different now. So to be honest, I'm learning now and I'm talking to you of things that we are in the middle of this. And we are in the middle of how many times a year do you increase your price when you are in an independent brand? Because, for example, a big brand, what they do is they buy gold in advance. So they are not so sensitive to this increase like I am not buying so much gold because I cannot for the moment.

37:33Lauren:Yeah, it's interesting. I heard from Brooke Nidick about this. Have you ever met her? I feel like you would like each other. She's really cool. The owner of Sydney Garber jewelry. but she mentioned to me a couple years ago that essentially what they do, the big brands often do with the factories, and I'm curious, I don't know enough about your supply chain, but I'm curious if your supply chain has been affected by this, that the big brands are so competitive that they essentially buy out the factories, even if they don't own them, for like four years. Where she said there was a factory that she used in Italy forever, and they were like, we love you and we still want to work with you, but they have like contracted us for our work for the next, we're just going to make stuff for the next four years for them.

38:21Lauren:How do you manage that? I'm sure being in Paris and like having such an understanding of the network in Europe, but how do you manage your supply chain stuff? Because it's the same kind of thing where the big brands can sort of just take over if they want to.

38:38Charlotte Chesnais:I mean, this was another subject why it took three years. It was finding the good partners who want to play the game, who don't belong to Big House. Because now a lot of my atelier I used to work with has been buy, bought, buy Richemont, LVMH, Kering. Kering actually is not buying so much. But LVMH and Richemont, they buy the atelier.

39:04Lauren:I think Kering just bought one, though.

39:06Charlotte Chesnais:Maybe, maybe.

39:07Lauren:Yeah, for Boucheron. It was like their main, something like their main factory or something.

39:12Charlotte Chesnais:But yeah, you're totally right. It's super, super difficult to find the good partner that will follow you, that will not drop you, that will be interested in making a young brand bloom. and it's funny like one of my supplier actually sold this company to a big group and then he sold it will not work anymore he's gonna retire because he sold this company super well and then after like few years he was bored and he was like i'm missing this my job again i want to go back i want to build my new atelier i really and so i'm working with him but because he's now independent again and he wants to keep it small and he wants to help like young designer and because he went through this big thing of selling to a big big company he's not into this anymore and hopefully for me there is still some people like this where you know not everybody is drawn by like big big company hopefully yeah yeah no that's true i mean i think well it's some certain rules that you have to play.

40:22Charlotte Chesnais:It's a certain reason. It's so many constraints and not everybody wants to accept them.

40:27Lauren:The other thing is I think that you are so strong as a designer that you can cut through all of that. Whereas there are so many people whose work, and this is in every industry and in fashion, in every category of fashion or jewelry or whatever, but your work is so clear and so people will will seek it out no matter what and they'll figure out the pricing because it's it was so strong from the beginning that that is really I mean it's the greatest example of like talent does matter because sometimes it feels like a friend of mine who you probably know who is based in Paris was messaging me about a designer in New York not really understanding why that this designer is so successful and I was trying to explain it and I think it's like I without naming either of these people it's it's an American thing but the point being that like there are I think this the frustration is there just are so many so many brands and so many ideas like how do you really break through and I think your your clarity of who you are all this pain in the ass stuff you can deal with because like someone will come to charlotte chanee for charlotte chanee you can't get that anywhere else you can't get it with the junkie knockoffs of the the alphabet rings or whatever like the it's oh it's only you and that is um that's like impossible to do so that yeah it's it's interesting yeah it's super

42:09Charlotte Chesnais:I mean, thank you so much for your words first. And yeah, you know, we got so many copies in the past 10 years from like bigger brands, smaller brands. And it's hard. It's really hard in many different ways to develop like fine recently, to develop, to be self-financial, to being a mom at the same time. I mean, it's a tough, it's a tough job. I'm doing many sacrifices. I'm not seeing my friends so often, not seeing my kids so often. And in the end, I still believe it's worth it because, I don't know, I still have this fire inside me that I strongly believe in my design.

42:48Lauren:And not being pretentious, but I still believe it's really worth it.

42:52Charlotte Chesnais:And yeah, but at the same time, you still need to have an advance because you have so many copies. And it's true that what you said, that finding the proper partner, for example, I can feel that some of them are very excited by the funny person that I am, maybe, and the crazy person that I am, and things that I ask that are not possible, but in the end, they are possible. and yeah of course we in this in the story of the brand for the past 10 years the key people are the people who accept the the challenge to work with us to develop with us to grow with us and this would not I mean I would be nothing without them and so my atelier is really people like Cherish a lot and the relationship I have with them and I mean it's key to find a good person.

43:44And it's true that when we decided to launch Fine, it was a long process to identify

43:50Charlotte Chesnais:the good partners.

43:52Lauren:Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. And it does also speak to sort of a European sensibility, which is, to me, is like, it's not all just about making money. Like the money comes after.

44:05Charlotte Chesnais:Yes. Which is in America.

44:06Lauren:It's not like that.

44:08Charlotte Chesnais:It's a different project. You know, identify my project that is not a money project it's retreat it brings money eventually and it's great but if i wanted to have a money project i would not be doing this i would be doing something different today i designed for other brands and they asked me for super commercial collection and i know how to do this commercial collection but this is not where i have this fire that i'm

44:33Lauren:talking about do you ever consult on jewelry or is it usually different categories no i do consult

44:40Charlotte Chesnais:on jewelry i i used to do it a lot in the past yeah um maybe i think i wouldn't do it so easy today because uh because i'm trying to exist as a jewelry brand so it's like sometimes i got some big brands asking me to design some collection and it's kind of like tricky for me to give them I'm a part of me in a way and being my direct competitor. So it's easier for me to work on projects that are very far from my DNA and far from the universe where I am.

45:11Lauren:So our mutual friend Delphine Delval, speaking of sort of your DNA and how it applies to other categories, her question for you was like, what did she say? She said, I want to know what designer she buys. What feels as hot as her jewelry? and then ask me a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with you. But what are you into fashion-wise right now?

45:39Charlotte Chesnais:I don't buy that much.

45:41Lauren:Yeah. I like your shirt. Where is your shirt from?

45:44Charlotte Chesnais:Yeah, it's from Mato. Oh, it's super nice. Yeah, I love Mato. I mean, to be totally transparent, I work for brands that give me a lot of clothes. Yeah. So it's true that it's nourishing my shopping addiction. easy because yeah so i'm i'm getting a lot of clothes i'm also getting a lot of clothes from other brands that are kind enough to give me some clothes and then after that i just want to have vintage like so basically i'm i'm i'm i'm buying i don't know how to say i think because i'm in the industry for 21 years i'm not so i understand the industry and it's feeding me and it's great to be inside but as a consumer point of view i'm less excited yeah um i'm having like really archetype clothes like good denim good shorts good leather good knitwear like men's shoes most of the time I don't buy that much.

46:50Lauren:Have you found vintage shopping in Paris to become more challenging as it's sort of the first stop for a lot of people there?

47:03Charlotte Chesnais:I see what you mean. Yes, sure. I buy less vintage in Paris. I do buy a lot online. Like we have this really good thing in France called Vinted.

47:12Lauren:Oh, Vinted, yes. Yeah.

47:14Charlotte Chesnais:When you be in France, I give you like a few. I can't wait. you listen but you can find like thank you really really crazy thing for not so expensive uh i i travel a lot in japan because i have a store there and vintage cool it's great um but yeah in the end i don't buy that much i borrow a lot to my boyfriend like the good shirt and everything we almost we share a lot um and yeah when i when i need a really beautiful dress for an event i i'm good friend with some brand so i will call alaya and i will borrow dress at alaya for dinner uh because i don't need to own them yeah yeah yeah i get it to own the all these pieces so i'm to pull the keys that i can borrow them then i when i need yes uh yeah i I mean, recently, I'm quite excited by the new Chanel.

48:11Charlotte Chesnais:Eventually, I'm very curious to see what it will give in store. It doesn't mean I'm going to be a customer, but it's kind of exciting. It's exciting me. I really love also the work of Michael at Céline because he's a friend. We work together. Super great. Yeah. And it's quite desirable, I have to say. Like for somebody who don't buy clothes, he wants to make me buy clothes.

48:35Lauren:it's it's so great to hear that because i felt it at couture talking to french people who are like i only buy vintage i don't buy any of this stuff that you silly americans buy and but everyone was like i want to like my friend who who works in who's a marketer who always like embodies the brand that he works for was like i want to go work at saline and it was like wow it's it's um it's amazing to see that this american guy i know that he has mostly worked with you all in europe and has like a is super sophisticated but it's amazing to see it that like the really discerning french and italians are into it i i'm very proud he has a very good

49:22Charlotte Chesnais:understanding of the european market and it has a very strong culture also of like french fashion house. But it has this very clever merchandising vision that is more American. Yeah. Well, yeah, no, I'm very, I'm very happy that pieces are arriving in store and I'm looking at it online and we'll see.

49:41Lauren:It's exciting. I know I want to get a shirt. So I guess the last question for you is what are you thinking it has? Like, what are you design wise? What are some of the sort of things in your mind as you, I'm assuming you're working on a collection right now?

49:57Charlotte Chesnais:I am. It's funny because I'm so I'm working on jewelry because now the company is based on the jewelry business. We have stores and people come from this. They come for this, sorry. But I'm also really into like exploring a bit more sculptural pieces that maybe could have a different purpose, such as just piece of art. Or I just released last year this Christoph's collaboration where I did some cutlery. so that's cool yeah I always make sure that you know I need to fit the best that the brand has became as you know the jewelry business and everything but I want to make sure that I always have kind of a a spare a spare spot like a carte blanche on the side where I can make sure I can still stimulate my brain because in the end any craftsmanship that I have in my hand not any but lost of them, I can get excited about and maybe want to create something different depending on the material I'm having and everything.

51:01Charlotte Chesnais:So I'm still trying to be very curious on the side and to see how it can become something, even if it's not a commercial business, but just exploring.

51:11Lauren:Well, we're so lucky that we have access to your mind. Charlotte, thank you so much for being here. This was so fun. And I'm excited to see you in Paris.

51:21Charlotte Chesnais:Of course. When do you arrive?

51:22Lauren:March 1st.

51:24Charlotte Chesnais:Oh, wow. Okay, in two weeks.

51:26Lauren:Yeah, I'm around for many months, so we'll hang.

51:29Charlotte Chesnais:Of course. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. It was so great. Me too. Just you, buddy. Bye.

51:35Lauren:Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and Director of Editorial Operations, Gobby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Bob Tabador.