Handbags Are So Over

11:53Becky Malinsky:Honestly, you're moving to Paris. So you're probably gonna wear them all the time. I hope so.

11:57Lauren:I don't I still don't see a scenario where a skirt suit other than like, a dinner I'm hosting. Is it appropriate full look, but we're gonna try.

12:06Becky Malinsky:But why not try?

12:07Lauren:We'll come back. We need to come back to this later. So formal. Yes. So anyway, but I did feel like at the end, there were so many expectations around Gucci. And I am not, and I wrote this on Friday, Demna cannot save Kering. Like, people are insane. Like, that is a crazy headline. I'm sorry. I know that people need clicks, and that is the obvious thing. But like, one, collection is not going to save it. But what I do think and what I did feel coming out of this was like, what is going to happen to Kering? That's what I wrote about on Monday. It's not clear to me now that like, and I've written this before, probably about six months ago, like will Carrie exist as a thing in 10 years?

12:49Lauren:I don't know. And I do think the industry is changing dramatically. I do think that sales are gonna be up year on year from this collection, whether the internet liked it or not. But just generally, usually when I leave Milan, I feel like it's tied up in a nice little bow. You kind of see what, and there were a lot of great trends. You kind of see where the industry is. There's tons of independent companies, family-run companies. Then the big conglomerates are present. And we should talk about Fendi, which I also really liked. I would say I really respected it. Me too. But I would say that what I came, I wasn't like super energized by anything other than probably Jill, but that's personal.

13:33Lauren:Like we like those clothes and want to wear them. It's less about thinking that that's going to revolutionize anything. And I was impressed by, I was really impressed by Marnie. I think one of the things Meryl Roge, I believe it is, needs to do next season is bring more of herself to it. It felt like to me it was as if she had gone in a thrift shop when she was a teenager. She's 42. She's around our age, ages. And it was all filled with Marnie. and she put it all together. And I love that because that was very, you know, a big inspiration when we were in high school or maybe you were in middle school.

14:14Lauren:But I want a little more of something out of it. I thought the kind of Western look that she brought in was a start to that. It was a good starting point, I think.

14:25Becky Malinsky:That styling is also how people want to look now. So I also felt like I had to step back when I was there at the show. I was like, oh, I'm not sure. I mean, I loved the first look, the white astra can like very like Milanese but looking at it again and again in the pictures I'm like these are actually really good knits this is how people dress now they want it to look a little messy a little less matched I think she made me feel like maybe I'm just old because like I remember going to Consuelo's shows yeah and it felt so sophisticated and mature and now this felt young and I'm like, well, maybe I've just gotten older.

15:03Becky Malinsky:But this does feel like the way girls want to look. And so I'm here for it.

15:09Lauren:Yeah, and I also think she was really, she looked at the first five collections, which I believe she said backstage that most of them aren't even available on Style.com. Well, on Vogue Runway. We're so old. Love you, Nicole Phelps. Anyway, that they're not even available on Vogue Runway or you can't see them or something like that. I don't want to misquote her, but it to me felt of that when I first learned what Marnie's was. And it was interesting coming after. I also think this personal style thing, a lot of it came from Dario at Versace. And Celine and Michael Ryder. It's like putting it all together.

15:46Lauren:And I think they all did that in their own way. I would say Jill was separate from that. And it was more of an idea. idea and to me I was like okay what is the five-year plan to get this guy to Gucci when Demna's bored he's like I just want to do my brand we need to create the Simone Bellotti five-year Gucci plan not sure if he's interested but but we are we are but the but the thing was like there were lots of accessories that I really liked there I thought it was like clean and clear and pure, not minimalist. I think it's like when you talk about Jill Sander, it's more about like pure. But then also you could see him in it, which like when I was leaving, I was with one of our mutual friends who shall remain nameless.

16:37Lauren:And he said, you know, it reminded me of Bally. But also it was very Jill. And I was like, well, that's the point. Like Simone was Bally. And also it did feel like a Jill Sander collection. So I thought that was like, for me, a Sander. But let's talk, yes. Let's talk Fendi. And what did you think about it? And what do you think it says about what's happening right now?

17:04Becky Malinsky:I listened to Vogue's podcast this morning, actually, as they were talking about it. Nicole and Luke were talking about it. And I could appreciate, you know, Maria Grazia's feedback of like, I make beautiful clothes and I'm just kind of always being put out hung out to dry and I looked at the collection again and it is just pretty clothes the way people want to dress and I agree like it doesn't always have to be about the heritage at this point who is the Fendi customer she is thinking about this woman this woman has places to go this looked good I'm sorry I liked it

17:38Lauren:I thought it looked good I don't did anyone other than Kathy Horn give it a bad review

17:43Becky Malinsky:It got bad reviews like in the Instagram TikTok world. When I was like first looking at it, there was lots of negative feedback. And I was just like, I don't understand.

17:53Lauren:All I have to say is I don't want anyone to ever send me one of these TikTok reviews again. I do not care. I do not care.

18:00Becky Malinsky:This kind of ties into the whole theme that you were talking about about Milan though, where it kind of feels like the industry is floating and we don't know what's next. Because it kind of felt like that with a lot of brands. Like it was the same with Armani. It's just sort of like floating. And sure, it's beautiful and it looks like Armani, but without Mr. Armani, how does that evolve? And it actually made me think about Chanel because Armani exists in its own bubble in the way Chanel always used to exist in its own bubble in Paris. And so will they now have to sort of make their way into the fashion conversation in order to keep this brand going?

18:38Becky Malinsky:Like, I think we're just waiting for that. And I think we're waiting in that sense at a lot of these companies.

18:44Lauren:Yes, I agree. And I think there was also, I went to the Margarita Missoni Macapani kind of pop up. She has this little shop right by where I stay, which I had no idea I stay in a fancy neighborhood, but apparently I do. It was super fun. And also she had the collection and she had all this like stuff sourced, probably a lot from eBay, a lot of home stuff. and it was so nice. And I mean, the collection is very great. And I was just thinking about like what's happening with Missoni itself. It's being sold to this licensing company and her family's there and they're so amazing. There's all these family-run businesses that are sort of stuck like Ferragamo.

19:23Lauren:The collection, he, Maximillian, it was beautiful. It was really nicely done. It's gorgeous. Multiple people said to me, where would we ever buy this? It's sold in a few of the boutiques. Like if they were really behind him, they would try to figure out like a really amazing exclusive with a great retailer that still, you know, ships and sells things and still pays, you know, there are a couple in the world and it's, he's already been there for four years and whether or not he's staying, I don't know, but it's just too bad. It feels like a little bit, a little bit like you're right floating in the Armani thing.

19:58Lauren:Yes, it looked better. They obviously used a stylist. They obviously used a casting director. It looked a little more modern. I think the challenge is now look like Marco Bazzari is now on their board. They have some more like real legit people on their board. I think the challenge is it's not Chanel. It's not the Wertheimers. The Wertheimers are like, I don't understand how they do it, but they are amazing managers of that brand. And they had the foresight to hire Lena Nair. They had the foresight to say yes to Mattu. Like, if it was about their personal taste, like, obviously, Mattu and Carl couldn't be any different.

20:37Lauren:And also, Armani's fashion business doesn't really make any money. It's really only inching by. So I thought Fendi, I wrote that it was a big middle finger to all the people who are mean to her. And the thing about it is the clothes look beautiful. They're very nice. I remember having lunch with an executive here. And she's French but lived in America for a long time. And she said, it was very early in my puck days, and we're having lunch. And she said, you know, I go to these weddings, and every woman is either wearing a Zimmerman dress, which is, what,$1 ,200 or maybe$2 ,200 now, and a$6 ,000 Dior dress.

21:16Lauren:And because these dresses are beautiful, they fit people. LVMH wants to keep that customer. Jonathan is attracting another customer. I got a lot of intel this week that the Chinese customer is really on board with the new Dior, which is great for him. But he is not going to have the same customer as Maria Grazia. Now they have it. And also, her accessories were great. The shoes are really good. Like, I would not buy that stuff. But it doesn't matter. There are people who do. And I thought it was a good statement to the world. Like, you need to please all different kinds of customers.

21:49Becky Malinsky:Yes. And the one thing I think is interesting about all this is that Maria Grazia does Maria Grazia where she goes. Demna does Demna where he goes. I mean, they all are themselves. And so watching them all just flip houses and now that they're getting settled in and they're still just themselves has been interesting. And I know all of these reviews have said, oh, and Demna gave us something totally different. But, like, it's still him. Those floral Balenciaga dresses are now floral Gucci dresses. And that's okay. but yeah there's just the expectations are so high and at the end of the day like it's still it's a business we have to they have to sell clothes um and i think on the demna piece i think what i

22:29Lauren:believe his his skill is is interrogating this industry so that's for sure he made a brand called vet mom which means close like everything he does his most famous thing when he started was taking Levi 501s and patching them together and selling them for$1 ,400, which at the time felt like so insane. Now, every single pair of jeans. And we all wanted them. Yeah, I didn't buy them. I wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal about him. But you know that someone put Miz in front of his name, not me. We're not, you know, Mino was on, Mino Mystery was on maternity leave, so you can guess who did it.

23:08But I was so embarrassed because someone put it and I didn't

23:12Lauren:see it in the readback. Oh, I was so mad. Anyway, the point being that like, I just think what he does is he says, he looks at things, he studies them and he says, this is, let me just put it back in your face. And for me, that was enough. I think the challenge was for a lot of people who were there the first time around when Tom Ford did a lot of that stuff. Although he put fur line And slides, Alessandro style on that runway, the floral dresses could also be pinned back to Alessandro in a way. Like Demna's furry slides were all black. But I think the thing was, and this was the last two collections, and maybe it is because I like the Tom Ford stuff.

23:58Lauren:Although when I was a teenager, it wasn't like I was like, yes, I would like to wear Tom Ford Gucci. I was obsessing over Marc Jacobs in that era. But there was stuff that I liked in this collection, and there was tons of stuff I liked in the pre-fall. And I've never felt that way. I liked him, and I really, really respect him. I'm not a person who buys his clothes. There were multiple things that I wanted, and I think that is interesting. I think that you go.

24:24Becky Malinsky:No, I think there was a huge range. There were so many things to love. Like the peacoat was beautiful. The dresses were beautiful. That black skirt suit was beautiful. The one thing I think is going to be interesting is that the way people shop now and the way all of this will make its way eventually into stores is like that first grouping with the leggings and the high end customer will buy skims now. It's not like, oh, well, you know, the whole argument, like I can buy it at Zara. I think that's an annoying argument. But the way people shop high, low now, it's how are they going to create a brand culture to sell some of this stuff when like skims is good?

25:03Becky Malinsky:And then we have to talk about the bags too, because a lot of that was just, you know, just a skeleton to sell the bag. And so we both have feelings on bags.

25:12Lauren:We're going to talk about bags overall. Let's talk about the bags and shoes. And that will allow us to talk about Bottega as well.

25:22Lauren:I don't smoke and I never have, but I feel like everyone else I know is suddenly smoking again. Of course, it's a free country. So if you like smoking, do what you will. but if your new year's resolution is to quit or even to use nicotine in a healthier way, check out Quit With Jones. Visit quitwithjones.com slash fashion to take the free quiz and use code fashion to get 15 % off your personalized quitting journey. That's quitwithjones.com slash fashion. Taking back control starts now. Thanks to Quit With Jones for supporting this episode. And just a heads up, the mints contain nicotine, which is an addictive chemical.

26:07Lauren:Jones is FDA approved and available for those that are 18 and older. For years, Gone South has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens. Through deeply reported narrative-driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals, and power structures that still shape the South, and in a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to Gone South Season 5, an Odyssey podcast. Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows. I wrote on Monday, I think that LVMH is really winning in the bag space. I think the Celine bags are obviously awesome.

26:51Lauren:I saw the little new Soft Trio today. They're really good. The Loewe bags are great. The Dior bags, not for me personally, they're good. Like people are buying them. People want the Clover Lady Dior. This is the first time in the history of the Lady Dior that other people other than Princess Diana want it. Like it's really, it's going to be, I'm just kidding. But it's going to be like, I think the bags are going to do really, really well at Dior. I think they're going to do well at Loewe. I think they're going to do well at Sleen. They're definitely going to do well at Fendi. all the shoes. I would say that carrying's challenge right now is that they are not winning on any level.

27:37Lauren:And then on top of it, this bag crisis generally, but I thought the bags and shoes were too straightforward at Gucci. I, they didn't feel, I wasn't excited about any of them. And that relates to Bottega Veneta as well. I just didn't think, I thought, I mean, the bags at Bottega are just gorgeous because the quality is just so good and you can see it on the runway and it's incredible. But I wasn't blown away and nor the shoes. I didn't think anything felt memorable or exciting to me.

28:10Becky Malinsky:I think less than the bags being straightforward, my biggest issue is their medium size and their structuredness. We talked about this a bit before that like I want a little tiny bag I can bring to dinner or I want something to fit my laptop. and I want it to feel easy. So something that is super stiff and structured and it's sort of in the middle doesn't really have a place in the modern woman's lifestyle because our bag is our phone now. So like I thought those pouches from Prada that are in store now were so good. That's the one thing I bought when I was in Milan was a little pouch, a silk pouch because it can go in my laptop bag.

28:48Becky Malinsky:You should definitely get one. It can go in my laptop bag. I can bring it out at night and it looks effortless but a bit cool. But this idea of like everything relying on this like daytime bag, it feels so outdated. And I just don't know who wants that. And I think there's just been like the it bag, the it bag, the it bag has pushed down everyone's throat for so long now that the general public is sort of like at the same place we are at as editors.

29:17Lauren:Moving to Los Angeles five years ago, I spent a lot of time looking for a bag to take to lunch to the polo lounge in San Vicente Bungalows, which was the only two places I ever dressed up in LA because I went to lunch there at least twice a week. And I bought a Hermes secondhand bolide. And I have a little Isaac Reina Navy bag that I would occasionally wear. And I was very interested in a white plume from Hermes, which I think I will get secondhand someday. But the reality of it was, I didn't really use the Bolid that much. I brought it to Paris. I agree on the laptop thing. I think that new Loewe bag that's like a reissue, we should look up the name of it.

30:00Lauren:I think if in the laptop size, like that's something I would be interested. I think the very flat Celine luggage bag that Michael Ryder has done is also an interesting concept. But I think you're right. And what I would say is on Friday, I wrote a very quick, like, just random thing being like bags are over. Nobody wants a bag. Sunday style should write about it. Lizzie Payton, who you write a column for at the Financial Times, messaged me and said she wrote a column being a personal column being like, I don't need bags anymore. I just want to take a paper bag. But I said to her, I was like, you need to do a reported story.

30:35Lauren:Because a reported story, this is my like, me being a know-it-all, but a reported story on this will go, it will be the world's biggest story in the entire world. Like a personal story about it is okay. But the amount of responses I got from random people, my friends who have nothing to do with fashion industry, and then people on social media DMing me being like, yes, I do not want a bag. Like I have that orally leather jacket. It has giant pockets, my Versace men's coat that I bought this summer, this winter vintage giant pockets, like seven pockets, a pocket inside. So I can carry more precious things inside, like the breast pocket.

31:17Lauren:I just don't want to, I don't even want to carry a clutch anymore. It just makes me stressed out. And, and so I think they also need to manage for that. Whereas shoes, I still want, I almost bought these little Celine booties today that are 1200 euro. Like I didn't buy them. Everybody don't worry. I think some people are worried about my shopping situation, but, but like these companies, the, what I think I kind of realized coming out of this Milan season and we'll see what happens in Paris. Maybe I'll feel more energized, but the reality of like, it's so over, which I quote, I've quoted before.

31:58Lauren:It's true. Like, yes, the Chinese middle-class consumers coming back. Yes. Dior and Gucci and all these things are going to be up year over year and Celine because they have new designers bringing in new life. Yes. It's going to be, it's not the end of the world, but I also think like the way people live their lives is just so different now. I barely went anywhere in Los Angeles. I didn't want to take a huge bag to school drop off. I want to take my barber jacket. Like there was a funny, I got fed this substack today about how many barber jackets should you own. Unfortunately, it was a paid post, so I couldn't go through.

32:36Lauren:But I think the answer is two, right?

32:39Becky Malinsky:Yeah, probably. Wait, what two, though? Well, I have a normal one.

32:43Lauren:And then I have a Noah in red.

32:45Becky Malinsky:Right, right, right. Okay, so like a barber and then a fashion one. Right. Okay, that makes sense. I have a barber and a robe.

32:52Lauren:You don't need the bedail.

32:53Becky Malinsky:Yeah.

32:54Lauren:Yeah, exactly. You don't need like the Bedale and the other style that I can't remember the name of. You just need like one normal one. No, but that's the thing. And one fun one.

33:04Becky Malinsky:And I think though, like, because you were saying LVMH is winning with the bags. All of those bags you were talking about have a bit of ease and a bit of like softness. So when Demner released the first collection last, when was it now? I mean, time has no meaning. It was last September. But it was the soft, he made the Jackie soft. and I was that was actually really exciting to see like oh it's like oh that's fun and I would want to see it the difference is all these bags on the runway felt really stiff and I was just like I don't know who wants a stiff bag that only fits their phone yeah I saw some of the softer

33:42Lauren:material bags I was with some of the Gucci people on Friday in large size and they looked nice and It was like cotton, not cotton, but like softer material. But yes, I agree. It just felt, yeah, it felt too strict. The Loewe bag's called the Amazona. So it's a reissue. It's like a redone bag. But you know, it's almost like a suitcase. Like I think a suitcase, essentially I want a suitcase. Like I want like a little briefcase. I want a little briefcase to carry around.

34:14Becky Malinsky:Basically what you're saying, every good bag is based on the plume.

34:17Lauren:Yeah, it's the plume, which I might, you know, I might get this as my briefcase and then a smaller plume to take to lunch. This is cute, though. I like it. It's really good. I really, really like it. And it's soft and nice. And it's soft. They did it in good colors. Yeah. So, so yeah. So let's talk about some other trends other than the end of the bag. And I like that you recommend this, this Prada bag because it's, it's important. the other trends I wanted to discuss with you stirrup pants because I know you're a big stirrup we saw them at Joe we saw them at Prada Marie Adam Leonard is going to have them tomorrow and then I went to a preview today and Marie Amelie Sauvé was there and she had on the most amazing pair with like a tailored banded waist which I don't know maybe they were Vuitton I have no idea I'm sure they're Vuitton.

35:08Lauren:They were so good. And of course, I'm not going to be like, where are your pants from? But can we talk about the, they, I know you're pro, you love the ski look. These pants have truly not come back in fashion since 1993. Like they have come back in trend occasionally, but they've never really hit. I feel like they're going to hit this time. I think so.

35:34Becky Malinsky:I feel great about this. What I really like about it is people, A, I like it for fall because it can tuck into a boot easily. Like, obviously, it has like a real functionality. And there's a lot about boots now. You know, the Western boot is so big. Yes. And so you need like something that can tuck in but not be a legging. So I love it for that reason. But I also like it how people are doing it with like a little mule. You know, like barefoot with a mule. I don't know. I think it feels like a little sexy. It's a way to wear a really straight leg pant that stays put. It's going to be difficult, though, now that I'm thinking about it, tailoring, because I have to get every pant hemmed.

36:14Becky Malinsky:So that'll be interesting.

36:17Lauren:You have to or for your clients? I have to. I'm not.

36:21Becky Malinsky:Well, how tall are you?

36:22Lauren:5 '6"?

36:23Becky Malinsky:I'm 5 '5". But everything ends up needing to be hemmed.

36:27Lauren:I have pretty short legs for being, I'm almost 5 '8". I think it will be okay because you just pull them higher on your waist. I think it's not an issue. I love it. Feels sexy. Yeah, I liked a Jill, how they were done with blue socks. And that looked cute. I'm very excited for them. I need to figure out the right shoe to wear with them. I would not wear them with heels. That's not my thing.

36:56Becky Malinsky:Swedish stockings, actually. I was just looking at their spring stuff. has a stirrup tight. Oh, fun. Which I think might be a good way for people to ease into it, to try it out.

37:06Lauren:I'm very pro, and I also, I just really like that slim. I might get the Loewe jacket, and I might get that and wear it with a turtleneck and stirrup pants and a pair of flats. I think that would look cute.

37:20Becky Malinsky:Is this just sort of a continuation of the whole, like, 80s American prep thing?

37:26Lauren:yeah I think it's moving out of the 80s and into the early 90s 90s yes into the early 90s not totally there although the early 90s is having an inorganic surge because of the CBK stuff I went to code today congrats to Stephanie Daynan it was I think her first like runway show it was sort of presentation runway they didn't bill it as runway but it was and she did some body suits and I was messaging with someone after that like a brand like that which is very minimal very Calvin 90s is going to really benefit from this sort of inorganic bounce back there even though we've already done that the other speaking of tights the other thing I wanted to discuss with you was this taupe white tights thing that Leandra has been she did with her collaboration with Swedish stockings.

38:17Lauren:She already did it. They were a Jill. I, there was this adorable woman who works at Net-a-Porter at the Simone Rousha show that I took a photo of. She was wearing white tights and white shoes together. And someone was like, oh, I think Marissa Meltzer was like, you could still wear that. Cause I posted, I I'm too old to wear this. She said, we would still wear something like that. I was like, I'm not wearing white tights and white shoes together. I'm not 22 years old and drunk on a bus in London.

38:40Becky Malinsky:But would you wear white tights in general?

38:43Lauren:Would you wear white I'll definitely wear, I think I'll wear taupe tights. I think I would wear, look, if I'm, it depends. If I'm wearing the taupe Jill Sanders shoes with like a very sheer white type and a gray skirt or something, I don't know.

39:02Becky Malinsky:But I think that. That's the thing about a white tight. You can't really wear it with like a tall black boot. It's going to, it actually makes more sense with the white shoe. You know what I mean? Or you're talking about a taupe shoe. I have a lot of white shoes.

39:14Lauren:It's tougher with a dark shoe. I think I would wear a taupe shoe with a lighter taupe type. Yeah.

39:22Becky Malinsky:I guess you could do a brown.

39:23Lauren:I don't know if I can do, I don't know if I'm going to do a white type. I just think that they're going to become a thing. Not with, maybe not with 43-year-old women. I don't know. It's fun. Definitely. I like it.

39:36Becky Malinsky:I mean, I like that. I like the idea of colored tights. Historically, it's been very hard to source good colored tights, wooly tights, white tights in the United States. It's the kind of thing that like there's so many options at Monoprix, but here it's very challenging. So I'm here for it just to bring more options stateside. I used to wear red tights a lot. I wear red tights quite a bit. I have two pair.

40:03Lauren:I haven't done that since probably 2010, but I was very into them with my like acne booties and my Isabelle Marant coat that I still own.

40:12Becky Malinsky:I wear mine often under, I have these big Junia Levi's jean collab with big rips in them. And then I wear the red tights in the winter underneath.

40:21Lauren:That's very fun.

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41:26Lauren:Let's talk about Bottega quickly. Sure. I am a person who I try to give people as many chances as they can because this is a really hard job. And just because I don't like something instinctually doesn't mean that it doesn't have a value to people. And I think that with Bottega, I went backstage and we did a group interview with Louise Trotter. It was really interesting. She was like, I got feedback last season that the stuff was too heavy. So I lightened all the tailoring up. And I said to her, I said, did you think it was too heavy? And she said, not at the time, but like, I'm open to feedback.

42:05Lauren:Which, can you imagine a man saying that? Like, it was so, and it was, I thought it was lightened up. She didn't use a stylist this season. She had been using the same stylist for a really long time. I thought personally as someone who has struggled with her at Joseph I really struggled with it I thought it was a better showing than last season but as as one of our friends said I often am like it was better it was better in inching better I don't think it was dynamite and I think that brand could be dynamite that being said like if the shoes and bags sell and people like that. Like, I think there's a woman who will buy that black and white fluffy coat.

42:52Lauren:I liked that coat. I thought that was really fun. Yes, there was elements of Cookie Monster around, but like the blue, the fluffy, but I liked the sparkly, like reddish garnet colored look. I liked the sparkly red look, true red look. And I do think she made a real effort to be the brand that Bottega Veneta, she believes it should be, and it is her personal taste. It doesn't align with what I am excited about right now. And also, I'm not sure. I do think there is a customer for it. I don't know if it's enough of a customer. But that being said, like, Matu's clothes were awesome. I don't think a lot of people were buying them.

43:40Lauren:I think it was really about the bags and things. So I don't think she's ever going to. It's sort of in a Maria Grazia way, but perhaps not as sharp. She's never going to please the critics. She just isn't. She's not a directional designer. She doesn't. It's all about her personal taste. It's not about her. She's not moving anything forward. In this weird way, I want her to succeed. And it's complicated because I don't think it was totally successful. And I kind of want to just wait and see if people buy it. If people buy it, then I'm going to be a little more understanding in the way I am for Maria Grazia, whose clothes I don't have any interest in and that don't excite me.

44:23Lauren:But honestly, I respect it because they're so well done.

44:26Becky Malinsky:I think what you're saying is exactly right. I just I struggle to see how these clothes fit real people. Yeah. I'm not 5 '10". Most people I know are not 5 '10". And the clothes are just really big. And I agree. I would love, I want her to succeed. She's obviously a very successful designer. You know, she continues to, you know, get amazing jobs. So she knows how to design clothes. But these clothes are just so big that it's hard for me to even see the shapes.

45:00Lauren:Yeah, it's interesting because she is not 5 '10". She's a very petite woman. And she just wears her clothes big. Right, I also wear my clothes big. But this feels oppressively large. she had on a really nice navy blue v-neck sweater backstage that I was like, that's good. And it had a BV and sort of cursive. I wonder, I'm sure it's for sale somewhere. It was really good. But, um, but yeah, I think it's a, it's a challenge and it did at the end, this whole like, well, what is the caring situation? Again, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. All that matters is the numbers. So we'll see, but, um, Exactly.

45:39Lauren:But it was complicated. There were two other things I wanted to chat with you about, Becky. One was, speaking of personal style, I'm Dario Versace. Dario Vitale for Versace. You and Leander did a very cute cross post. It was like, you remember when there would be a friends in ER crossover? It was kind of like that where you did cross posts of the Dario sleeveless rugby that Max Berlinger and some of our other friends have also bought. I loved it. I thought it was so fab. I can't. When I looked this morning, there were still a few sizes on my Teresa, but I bet it sold out now. Tell me about how this cross collaboration came about and what why you love this this rugby so much.

46:27Becky Malinsky:Oh, my gosh. Well, that's two separate questions. But we've actually been talking for a really long time about doing some sort of cross post where we take a piece, take three pieces and style them in different ways. Because we gravitate towards a lot of the same clothes, but we obviously wear them incredibly differently. And when the Versace hit and I was going like obsessively going through the new arrivals on Versace, on My Teresa, on all the sites, I was sending things to her. I was like, well, what about this? What are you getting? and when I said this I love this like I'm definitely going to try this she said oh I liked that one too I said this is it this is the moment that we do this cross post because this is a crazy top and I'm sure whatever we come up with will be very different obviously because we have different bodies and different comfort levels with body coverage so it actually was pretty organic and easy, but I was so excited to start seeing this Versace come in and it kind of felt so urgent and I felt like I was almost hyperactive when it was all coming in because I was like, this is it.

47:33Becky Malinsky:This is our only moment. It's not like there's going to be some similar style next season. Like what I like, I have to just commit to and buy right now while they have it. So I kind of got obsessed for a couple weeks there. But I love this top. I have it. I also bought a belt. I'm thinking about a couple other things.

47:53Lauren:I love the shoes. I'm not going to buy them because I'm going to wait for the Jill pumps, but they're really good. Yeah, I love the Versace ones, and honestly, they are so comfortable. But they have a ribbing on them, and I think that would bother me, well, like in real life.

48:11Becky Malinsky:They'll be comfortable because Trevor designed them. For me. The Versace shoes? Yeah, it's so good.

48:16Lauren:Well, I believe it. I mean, he is, damn, he is good. I wonder if he has done a similar style somewhere else. That Trevor, amazing.

48:25Becky Malinsky:Everyone needs to just go buy the Versace they want now. And you will not regret it.

48:29Lauren:No, you won't. It's so fabulous. There's a lot in the Paris store I walked by today. And like, there's a lot of dresses and stuff that I didn't see at the other shops. So maybe more of the products coming in. Finally, Becky, I wanted to just chat with you really briefly. There was some news on Friday, I believe, that Condé Nast is selling them. their LGTBQ Plus platform started by the great and powerful Phil Picardi to the like a holding company that owns a lot of queer publications, including Out Magazine and The Advocate and all of that. Whatever the reason they're selling it in the note to staff, Roger Lynch, the CEO also mentioned Glamour and Self, which like there have been rumors of them selling those for years.

49:11Lauren:He didn't say they were selling them. He said they're going to quote unquote, explore new partnerships and also licensing models and things. And, you know, I wrote on Monday, of course they need to do this. One person mentioned to me, you know, Glamour and Self are two of the only brands that were founded within the publishing company. Like a lot of Conde Nast titles were bought by Architectural Digest Vogue. Obviously, we're not part of Conde Nast originally. Glamour and Self were both developed within Conde Nast. But I don't think that matters in the end. And they're just, and I'm just curious, you're a Glamour alumni.

49:46Lauren:And what you feel about the brand and do you think that that brand like matters now in the grand scheme of, I don't, but like I never worked there. So I did write a piece about wearing a septum ring around town and what it made me feel for the front of the book once. Let me just tell you, it didn't make me feel good.

50:04Becky Malinsky:I loved working at Glamour. I worked for Cindy Levy. She's really great. It was a different time though. and it was a time when it was the time of network TV. You're talking about ER and friends. Like it was the time of we all got all of our information from the same places and Glamour was important then. So it felt like I was working at an important place and sending information to the entire country and that's just not the way that we get our information or consume our entertainment anymore. And I think one of the things that Glamour struggled with as audiences became more compartmentalized was that you kind of had to pick a lane and you can't be everything to everyone now because there's just – that's too much.

50:53Becky Malinsky:And so it's – they're going to have to like niche-ify themselves almost. But the problem is they were developed as a brand as like for the every woman. And so that's a really hard thing to do. And that's something we struggled with when I worked there. It's honestly something we struggled with at Off Duty when I worked there is how can you please multiple different audiences? You really have to narrow down like, well, who is your target audience and figure out who is that person you're talking to and really talk directly to them. And I think it's very hard to get lost when you're trying to reach such a broad audience.

51:29Lauren:yeah it's it's like gq could become a fashion bible glamour couldn't do that because there's already a fashion bible within condé nest and right you know something i've written about a lot is the kind of bottom dropping out on cpg advertising which glamour was the most profitable magazine in that in that building for a long time and and um once the cbg companies realized they didn't need them. And the same thing, I'd say Cosmo is in a similar boat, like any of these companies that like you can kind of get all that information on TikTok, you really don't need them. And yeah, it's too bad. But but I think like, if I were Roger Lynch, I would, I would get rid of them or I would license them or whatever you however you want to say partnership, like that, that makes financial sense.

52:20Lauren:And honestly, they've laid so many people off within that building. I don't think they can do many more layoffs to be able to function. Right. And in that way, they can put more money into Vogue, put more money into GQ, Wired, Vanity Fair, which are the four brands. And the New Yorker, obviously, but that's run separately, so it doesn't count.

52:40Becky Malinsky:That's the thing. They'll never be able to compete while there's a Vogue. It may as well go somewhere else where they can be reinvented as this great Americana heritage brand and live on its own as a fashion magazine. I mean, I remember when I was there, Anne Christensen was the fashion director. She's who hired me. And she had made this little, I still have it, this little mini magazine with Patrick de Marchelier of all these archival photos from past Glamours. And it was just a little tiny book. And the imagery was so good. And I was like, there is a lot of history there that could be dug out.

53:19Becky Malinsky:And I mean, we are like, it's Ralph Lauren's world now. Everyone should pay attention. Like there could be a future for it if someone else had it and could do it in a scrappy way and really just sort of figure out what the lane is. But I don't think it makes sense, obviously, in a world where like all of the funding goes to Vogue.

53:40Lauren:Well, yeah. And also in a world where you and Leandra exist and you do so well on your own. why would you ever work at a publication again? Like this is the thing that you two are the most powerful fashion editors, like proper fashion editors in America right now. And I'm not just saying that because you're my friends. I'm saying that it's true. I was gonna say, according to you. No, I mean, according to your stats, like it's not, if I didn't know you, I would think the same exact thing. Like, there are other people who I'm not as good of friends with who are also doing well. but you two are the the lead leaderboard and there's a reason for that and i've said this about leandra for decades she would have been the editor-in-chief of glamour if it if she was 10 years younger like or i mean maybe not given the way condé nas works but she should be and and so i think that i i really wish these these legacy companies and would would think ahead a lot and invest in the future and they just don't.

54:46Lauren:But anyway, Becky, I'm invested in your future. Thank you. Your future in Paris when I'll see you on Thursday? Friday. Okay. See you Friday.

54:56Becky Malinsky:I'll see you Friday.

54:57Lauren:I'll see you all weekend. I can't wait for our mess. We'll talk soon. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabi Grossman.