Indie Squeeze

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of FUT's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Alice Cavanagh. We're talking the future of Mosquito, what it takes for an indie brand to survive in 2026, the rise of New York Knicks benchwarmer Tyler Kolick, and so much more.

0:24Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. By the time you read this, or hear this, if all goes to plan, I'll be in London. I'll be headed to a preview of Hermes' new store. Guess is in the old Asprey store, which I have weirdly been to. They've owned it for a long time, but they only were able to get in there recently. I haven't read the FT story. That's like where they had the big exclusif, exclu if you work at page six. But I need to, I'll read it before I get there. so I'm excited for that and I'm going they're doing like some Tracy Emin thing that I'm going to go to and then tonight is the store opening and I'm having dinner at Vesper new restaurant that I want to try with my colleague Alex Bigler from Puck because tomorrow we're doing one of our famous dinners with Shop My at Cafe Deco I'm very excited I'll have more on that in line sheet and on the podcast on Friday in other news.

1:22There's a lot happening in M &A at the moment, and I have some details on some sales processes that are happening and some creative director change-ups. I'll be in Milan at the end of the week for a bit of men's fashion, and I hope to see you. Also, Alice and I were going to talk about New York Knicks benchwarmer Tyler Kolick, who is a friend of mine who's a real New Yorker, whatever you think that is. I'm not going to talk about the I'm excited for everybody it's great I'm not I'm not getting involved in this I don't I'm not gonna act like I care like I I do care because when I was 13 years old I was obsessed with the New York Knicks I was played basketball and loved them and loved John Starks and Patrick Ewing and I always felt bad for them they didn't win I'm really happy for this team but I like I don't wish I was in New York I feel bad for the people who weren't anyway my friend who's very into New York who's a New Yorker who's very into New York was like you need to look at this Tyler Colick guy.

2:18Apparently he didn't like play at all during the playoffs, but he's so into fashion. He's extremely cute. And there's this hilarious video with him talking about his clothes. He's wearing like a Rolex. He calls it a rollie. And he makes this comment that's like something like, I'm not dressed, I'm Drees or something, but he says it in like, he sounds ridiculous. Anyway, it's very funny, but it's just hilarious to me that this person is getting attention, but he is adorable and looks like a movie star. So you don't have to be good. You just have to be cute. I think that's the lesson. Anyway, Alice and I were going to talk about it and we didn't, but we talked about a bunch of other stuff and she's amazing and I'm sure she'll be back on the pod soon.

2:57So I hope you enjoy it. Alice Kavanaugh, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I would ask you how your weekend was, but I got to see you. We went on a little date. I know it feels funny doing this without a glass of wine actually I feel like we're always just catching up in a yeah in a very different environment but this is this is just as lovely it's just as lovely sometimes I do have a glass of wine before I do this depends on depends on what time of day sometimes I'm not recording till like 11 p.m at night here so sometimes that happens well that's very much of you you know just to pour yourself a glass of wine why not Why not?

3:40So one thing we didn't discuss is did you buy anything this weekend? Are you a big shopper? I'm actually not. You know, I think it's really funny because, you know, when you've worked in fashion for a very long time and you come into the industry as someone who loves clothes, which was definitely my background, I used to shop all the time. And I think one of that part of that is to do with like it used to be way more affordable. Like the biggest joke between me and my friends was like we used to buy mu mu in our early 20s like how funny is that because you could go in there and get a pair of shoes for like 350 euros or whatever um and then also i just think that at you know people are spending in other places i now buy you know travel experiences food like everyone else but i do i look at clothes i like going to store i'm always looking online at things you know there are things that i'd like to buy that don't but i i do you know i buy like four or five things a year that I really, really think about now as opposed to those like fun kind of shopping outings I used to do.

4:41Yeah, I have not gotten over shopping. I think being here in Paris where I don't have to like get stuff for a house. Yeah, we have, you know, it's it we're renting a furnished apartment. It feels a little freer to spend. But also, So yeah, I definitely buy fewer things that are and think about them. I had a really nice and I didn't we didn't discuss this on Saturday. I had a really nice time. I went to Miriam Nasir's shop in the 10th. I sold that. Yeah. It was so lovely because it was her shop in New York, which closed, I don't know, probably six months ago or a year ago, was really important to me when I lived in New York for 15 years.

5:26and I would go, you know, once a month just to see and a lot of discovery. Like she was the first store to have Jacquemus from what I remember, Christacea, but also like in the early days, like three is four and things like that. And I also just love her, her clothes and her accessories. And it was just really nice. If anybody's coming to town for market or the men's shows or couture, it's worth going up there. It is a bit of a hike. It took me a while from where I live to get there on the train. It's a funny location. I'm interested as to why she chose that location. But in Paris, there are quite a few off-the-street front boutiques, which I think is quite nice.

6:11Quite often you can go to places, like Christosia is one of them, where you make an appointment and you go in and you've got to walk upstairs. And it's not this kind of shopfront experience. It's a little bit more secret. Yeah, it's really nice. But yeah, it was a good reminder that there's a lot going on here. I did buy two things, but Becky Molenski says I'm on a freeze, so let's not talk about it too much. This is normal when you move cities, because your wardrobe changes, right? Like how has your dressing changed since you moved here? Because you have like a whole new life. And it's Paris.

6:50I mean, Paris is a walking city like New York is, but you were in LA, so it's really different. Yeah, I would say that what I tend to do is go shopping when I'm here. So I end up buying things that work in New York and Paris and London and Milan more than anywhere else. Like my nice clothes are for when I go to fashion week or when I'm traveling for work. And then in LA, I wear jeans and t-shirts and sweatshirts all the time or jeans and a blazer. Like today I'm wearing this probably the last day I'll be able to wear a jacket as a shirt. I'm wearing a lightweight blazer and jeans and heels. And I would wear that to like meetings in LA for sure.

7:29But I would say the biggest difference is shoes because I had gotten, we were in LA for five years and I'd started to wear like three and a half inch heels. Wow. And a couple four inch and that like I'm wearing the almond toe shoes from the row that everybody has that have like a half inch heel. and I have a little, you know, they're not comfortable. I need to, and I kept thinking today because it's like 80 degrees here, I need to figure out like a soft sandal that's not going to give me blisters. It's just, so the shoe thing is the tricky part for me. I just don't know what to do. Like it's impossible.

8:09I think unless you're getting a taxi from A to B, there's always a cobblestone or dog poo, which is everywhere in Paris. Yes. To be able to like maneuver easily. Yeah. Yes. So it's been a bit of a slow news cycle. Last week was the slowest week, as I mentioned on the podcast last week, that the slowest week I've experienced since I got to puck. This week is going to be busier. There was a lot of, I think also I had more time to talk to people last week. So I just was like, oh, there's actually a lot going on. And there's going to be, from what I can tell, like a good amount of M &A stuff happening, like companies being bought and sold or new investors, that sort of thing.

8:57And the story I stumbled upon this weekend was that Moschino, there's a bunch of changes there. so the designer adrian who has been there since the i guess the end of his first collection was 2024 um i think it's adrian apalatza is that how you pronounce it oh no it's adrian api alatza he came from loeve he left on friday that was his last day yeah and and you know because i mean it's a pretty short stint which is not unusual these days but jeremy was there for 10 years right so Yes. I think the big thing is that Iafi, the owners of Moschino and Moschino's, their kind of biggest brand, is in the midst of getting a new owner.

9:42So they are in a lot of debt. They owe their vendors a lot of money. And they're in a lot of debt. They owe their vendors a lot of money. And they have been trying to find a new investor or they are going to go into. They've already been in restructuring. So it's not a good situation there. They have a new investor. It's this asset management firm called Oxy Capital. It's an asset management firm that agreed like a month ago or what have you to buy the business and pay off all the debt. The deadline for the final offer was today. and I think like IFE if someone else came in with a better offer then they could do that but I think they pretty much have no choice than to go with these people they also hired a new CEO who started June 3rd and he is an operations guy the his last company he was a textile firm he's not a known executive in fashion but he's like a behind he's known behind the scenes um and he's part of the group yeah he started june 3rd and i think he just started to make his last his last job he he worked at a textile company and he is his title was chief transformation officer so my guess is he's like i'm gonna get get in here and like do stuff real fast so um who knows the new designers are supposedly these guys from that brand um sunay who left that brand at the in september of last year and they're very like you know Moschino's all about satirizing the fashion industry they bring a lot of humor to their to their work and and sort of self-referential they did an auction their last show and they auction themselves off and you know they're fun they're great guys um I'm still doing the reporting on whether or not they are actually the ones that are landing there But from all the information I've gotten, that's the case.

11:50I'm curious, like, what's your relationship with Moschino? Do you think about it ever? I mean, I think, well, I think about it through the lens of Jeremy Scott, to be honest. I feel like the history of the brand was like that it was very 80s coded because I know it started in the 80s. And I feel like when he was appointed, what it must have been 10 years, obviously, well, 2013, maybe if we say 10 years before he left. And he was a really big fashion figure, right? Because he just was always part of this wider cultural conversation. My memory of him when maybe I first wrote about him was that he was one of those first people that really jumped on collaborations and trends.

12:30And he seemed to have his finger on like a wide part of the cultural conversation as a designer. But like it's never been wearable. It's never been something I've thought about in terms of product. I think he was really good at creating a story and a point of view. But then, you know, how many people were buying it, I don't know. It was suddenly of a moment and that moment feels like it's past. so then what is the Moschino identity that they want to keep and you know and how how will it feel like it it's needed today I mean that's the biggest that's the biggest point for me with so many brands like do we need it I mean I don't want to say that about Moschino in general but like I think I feel that way often about a lot of things is it really you know relevant do people feel really attached to it and is there enough there to really save and fight for because it is a fight right so yeah that's my that's my initial thought yeah I think that that is the question all of these brands need to be asking themselves like why do you I need to exist and maybe the Sunay guys can think of a reason because they're smart and have interesting ideas but to be honest like it's it doesn't increasingly feels like there's so much in the market especially because of secondhand and we have access to so much more and we live our lives so differently that like I feel this way a lot about a lot of the major brands too they they just they lack of value and and I think it's going to get harder and harder there was just a new class of CFTA Vogue Fashion Fund people popping up for this year.

14:17And it has a lot of brands I really love, like Emily Don Long and Lee LII. And some of those brands are also in the LVMH prize, which the LVMH prize is amazing. You get a lot of mentorship. If you win, you get a good amount of money. And you also get put into the LVMH system, which is essentially where most people make a living if you want to make a living as a fashion designer you want to work at one of these big groups um it's the only place now that really makes a difference for a young designer i think which is also problematic lauren because it's like you know they already have a monopoly on the industry and then now it's like you know now that it's it's i mean i i don't want to under you know take away from how positive it is but then also when it when there's just only one thing doing that it's a problem yeah yeah it is i mean this is the this is the existential question of like a consolidated business is do you kind of just let it be what it is and accept the fact that these big groups run everything or do you push back on that and i guess my question for you is like is there because like the the sunay guys they left their their their business is owned by vanguards which is this brand management firm run by the husband of the nanushka designer who i think his name is peter i've met him before he's a super interesting guy and it's like partially backed by the the hungarian government oh wow um so which is yeah it's very interesting but it's like aaron sunay or it might be sunay i think it's sunay and then nanushka but they left at that time and kind of there's all this stuff happening right now with like all the brands that were owned by tomorrow like martine rose and caperini and all of that and like i think it's just really hard these days to to have an independent brand even in america it's a little different because americans consume so much and if you are smart you can kind of manage through it But I don't know.

16:27It's just that it's so everything that costs raw materials is so expensive. It just feels like there's no place right now to launch something new. And if you do, either you have you're kind of told, well, manage your expectations. It's never going to be much. Or you're told, like, get a job somewhere else. Yeah, you could do this thing. But I have so many thoughts. I've talked about this for a long time. I think like the biggest thing there, first of all, is like, it's not just about the brand ecosystem. It's the whole industry, right? Like there's, it's not like you're creating a brand and then it needs to just find a customer.

17:07It's also like what media is going to cover your brand and support you? What retailer is going to buy your brand and actually, you know, give you a shop front where people can discover it? You know, e-commerce is also completely collapsing. So it's like, it's not just, you know, does a brand need to exist? but then there's nothing to support it anymore. And I find that with stories, like I'll go and visit a young designer and it's so hard for them to get any meaningful press. There's a monopoly in media right now because everyone wants the exclusive. So a young designer has one story somewhere, no one else will cover it.

17:38And then, you know, where are the retailers? Miriam is a great example that she was this platform for young brands, really cool brands that were part of, you know, a discovery process. And there aren't many stores like that anymore either. and so i think it's like you either have like an amazing concept like a totem who've just come in so strong and they've got a great direct consumer concept then they're going to retail they've built like a brand story but this model of like a really young very very talented creative designer probably their best hope is to go and get a job in a house and like make a good salary you know behind the scenes for sure because for sure and also these you know when you're a designer and you come up through Central St.

18:21Martins or something, you're also not taught to how to be a business person. And that's part of the journey now. The other thing that was thinking about this thing is like, you know, what are people buying today? And like one of, like a story that just sprung to mind when I was telling you about how I shop now was like, I think the New York Times, maybe Nicole, no, not Nicole, sorry. Vanessa did a story at the New York Times on like the designer debuts last year. and one of the questions it was like a little pop which was a great story it was great and one of the questions was what do you wear or something like this and there wasn't a single designer at any of these houses that wore a fashion brand they're all in Levi's and t-shirts and it's like that to me was so telling it's like even people on the inside aren't really crazy about fashion anymore no Mark Jacobs is the exception he's the exception there was one other I can't pull about now because it's like 10 months ago but it really stuck in my mind I was like this is hilarious you know yeah that piece was so great and we've discussed it on here before it was extremely hard to find it on on the New York Times website and I feel like they need to like pin it it was honestly I think the best thing Vanessa has done the whole time she's worked there it was like all 12 of them answering questions about who they are as people like what they eat like you said what they were I think what they were to sleep in like stuff that is is so personal and we didn't need to hear about their vision because you could kind of see from what they said it was really well done but I think I think you're right it's just a different fashion's playing a different role in the culture today and it does but it does kind of bum me out a little bit that there isn't there's And look, you can't go back and I'm just not a person who's like, it was better back then because every generation has its stuff and things are much better in some ways for creative people than they used to be.

20:20So I'm not going to say it was better back then, but I do think that there's just less of an incentive to create your own stuff now than there used to be. because it's just really hard to live. And we also value things like being able to go out to eat and live in a nice apartment and things like that more than I think we did 30 years ago. And if you look at the model of a young designer, like I never know how to say her name, but I should. Is it Meryl Roget? Do you pronounce the E at the end? I think it might be Meryl Roget, but honestly, I don't know. Who I have interviewed before, so apologies.

21:03She's amazing. We love her. But right, she's like juggling how many balls right now just to basically, you know, she has her own label. She has that great knitwear brand that the name escapes me and then obviously Marnie. And it's like, you know, if you're a graduate, is that really what you're aspiring to? It's a personal choice. Yeah. But that's the model that seems to be, you know, one of the main options. Yeah, and Meryl is, I believe, 42 or 43. So like, the interesting thing about her is she didn't start her own brand for several years. She worked at Drees and maybe some other places. And she started her own brand and got Marnie pretty quickly after that.

21:46And so it's an interesting thing, too, of at least she's a grown up and knows how to manage herself, I think. And it's also interesting to think of someone of our generation wanting to start a brand. Because like, not that you could ever recommend it, but now it just seems like totally. During COVID, actually, I remember interviewing her during lockdown and it was the first lockdown. Yeah. So yeah, but yeah, she's obviously extremely talented as well. And I think that's just the thing now is it's just become so competitive. You have to be so, so good at what you do. You know, I mean, Jonathan Anderson's a great example.

22:27Like there is probably five people in the world that can do what he does. And I mean, in terms of like the stress management and the multitasking and just the wild ambition of it all, like that's quite a singular personality, I think that can take that on. I mean, I love that me and him like dragging on a cigarette on the send. Did you see that? Is that from, oh yes, yes, yes. The video of him smoking and it's just like. It's his last breath and it's like, yeah, that's maybe what life is like when you're doing, you know, a hundred collections. Did you see the Gus Van Sant photos of him in Le Mans?

23:07I did not. In M. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. They are very powerful. Yeah, they are. They are. I was like, wow, this is really capturing someone in the middle of something. They were really vulnerable and I thought they were haunting in a good way. They're beautiful. And he's a really important spokesperson right now because I think he does talk about how challenging it is. Like I've noticed that his interviews since his appointment have been very honest to a point. Obviously very media savvy. but like he's it's not this empty kind of like everything's great and he's sort of happy to deep dive and talk about you know what it's really like and I think that's quite valuable yeah I think he's um unique in that way that he understands the importance of the media and communicating I mean not that he I'm sure some of it bothers him but he's unafraid to engage And that I think is rare of someone of his generation also, and also a designer, because usually they they're very sensitive feeling people.

24:13And so a lot of times they just don't they only want to do the point you made about the exclusives thing. I think like it is a shame because it does limit the amount like we these these brands are talked about so much on social media. And so you feel like you hear about them all the time, but you often don't get it's a very opaque way of talking about them and it's projecting a lot onto them. but you don't get the younger brands especially maybe don't get as much conversation because they are like like every every outlet demands an exclusive and look I've been on the other side of it I understand to an extent but on the other hand if you're good you should be able to pull something no one else pulls and it's an odd time to be like putting yourself out there as a designer yeah I mean you would know more about this because you're way more in the back end business but like I think the scale of things is really interesting it's like do you need to take over the world or do you just want like you know a really tight knit of dedicated customers who are just going to come to you over and over again like that to me seems to be where things get a bit tricky too it's like there's something to be said for just you know finding what you want to say and doing it so well it's like I quite like one product brands that just do like their one thing and they're so good at it and they just nail it and then you just go back to them with that thing over and over again like Ruby Rose is a great example right now in Paris that store has just gone gangbusters and I think you know it's just so tight and if you're trying to say something to everyone then you end up not really saying anything at all and I think that's what we see when there's this big growth in a brand it's like it loses its way yeah yeah I met with the CEO of Husbands a few weeks ago and he was saying like they're thinking about natural size which I think is a very interesting you would never hear that in America but honestly in most parts of the fashion industry and probably not Milan either um but I think that's the key is like growth is good it's not it's sometimes there are brands that kind of get in their own way and they lose out on the the natural growth that they they should have because there is a demand for the product um for whatever reason they don't have the right distribution or the right marketing or or the or they have all that stuff but the products aren't like yeah but then there is a point where you get to a size where you're the right size and you can keep innovating which is the only way you stay relevant, but that you're not like beholden to a particular shoe or what have you.

27:04One company I've been thinking about a lot is Charvet, which you are the author of that amazing The People of Charvet article in the New York Times. And I went to pick up, I did like Demi custom and I went to pick them up on Friday and I'd never done the custom before which is only I think 200 euros more expensive than a shirt um I own a lot of Charvet shirts I love them I've been buying them probably for like 10 years or something not not super long but I had never bothered doing the custom before and when I went in it was just like totally insane and I asked one of them like is this the Chanel effect?

27:45And they were like, well, sort of, but more just like everybody. Like it's just become a thing. I'm curious what you think is like, you've lived in Paris for a long time. You've written a lot about Charvet. Like what do you think is going to happen with that? Because it's obviously become a sort of central brand for a lot of like fashion enthusiasts to go through Paris at least and buy that kind of traditional stuff. Yeah, it's interesting. I think I wanted to write that story because I felt like it was having a moment, which is funny for a brand that has existed for so long and been so popular on a local level.

28:26So I wanted to go back to like who's been shopping there for a long time, what are their weird quirky habits. Like I interviewed this guy, Yves Ville. He's a very well-known gynecologist in his like late 60s And he has like 50 bow ties. And so it was about like maybe finding a bit more of a, you know, not just a brand profile, which to be honest is my least favorite story to write. And I think that when I did that interview, which was earlier this year, the store wasn't that busy then. And I remember Anne-Marie Colbin, who's the owner with her brother, really was like, everyone's welcome. I asked her, will you ever have a queue outside?

29:03Because queuing is a big thing outside of Paris boutiques at the moment, which I think is like, almost the opposite of luxury, like having to stand in a queue to spend, you know, 2K on a handbag. But anyway, and she's like, we'll never have a queue, you know, but then, you know, how that actually manifests now that it's really busy and I haven't been in there is a different story because I think they really focused on very attentive customer service. You know, you go upstairs and you do your made to measure. I just think it's having a moment. It will probably continue to always appeal. I don't think it's going to die off or anything.

29:39But yeah, how they cope with like crowd management will be interesting because they don't want to lose this feeling of like you're walking in and you're really welcome. And, you know, you've discovered something as well, right? A little bit. Yeah, I think it will dissipate. I don't think it's going to be as, I mean, I could be wrong. This could be just the beginning. But yeah, I've had that experience going into La Mer the last two times where the first time I had to wait in a line where I was like, what? Yeah, I'm not waiting in a lot. Like, no offense. I love La Mer. I think it's an incredible brand, but it felt, um, and it wasn't on purpose.

30:14It was just, and then I, when I went in both times and then the next time I went, I was like, I just want this shirt. And they were like, you're going to have to wait like a half an hour. We don't have a dedicated. And I was like, guys, you need to figure this out. There aren't that many people in the store and I don't need a dedicated person. Like I need someone to, most of the people who shop at La Mer, like at one point, half my wardrobe was La Mer. Like it's a thing. I don't think they're trying to create hype. I think it may be what their clientele, I think they probably have a lot of Japanese and other clients from Asia coming through and they expect a certain kind of service that Westerners don't.

30:56I don't know for sure, But like that is the vibe that I get when I go in there now. And I think it's really complicated when you you are like a special brand for a certain group of people and then suddenly more people know about it and you want to be inclusive. And how do you how do you manage that? I think with the Charvet, my sense is that there will be people who think it's great and buy stuff for two seasons. And then they're like, I have enough. I'm moving on. And then the people who were there before will still be there. And when I went through, it was really fun. Jill Ben-Simon was there.

31:34And we talked. Right. Yeah, it was very cute. He was like, good choices. Because I was trying to. I had a parallel thought. but like when did this and because I feel like that brand is anti-hype right like that is definitely not something they are entertaining or encouraging I think it's a problem with the Marais now yeah I think it's this area that has become so overpopulated especially on the weekend it's like a music festival now when you walk through there you know even people friends that live in the Marais have left the Marais because it's just not possible to sort of have a normal life in that neighborhood anymore and they've just opened in Palais Royale and I know the brand sees Is that like a quieter destination, which I think it is.

32:15It's like those, you know, beautiful galleries. You can sit in the park, take your time. And I think that was a really smart move because it's going to be a different customer that goes there. And it's probably going to be you that goes there. Yeah. The Palais Royale retail situation is fascinating to me because apparently it's extremely expensive to rent spaces there. and so it's like a I think the the Papier Royale the Ramdan that that guy his paper shop is really interesting he has the money he can be there but it's very quiet and so it is a thing of for a brand like La Mer that already has a close following people will travel there too but it's and Rick Owens is there and has been for years but that's a really interesting retail I assumed it was not expensive because it's so quiet and there's no foot traffic but then i was told that it's like crazy expensive and and a big investment yeah i mean so it's such an iconic destination and it has that history of being a shopping gallery yeah i mean ramdane had a space you know he he had the shop before that shop and then he sort of revamped it as the real yeah so no was it like the color shapes thing that he moved to the moraine that wouldn't have worked in the palais right so he's smart he like you know and yeah let's just see I mean he yeah I think it's a really beautiful destination and I think you know if there are more brands in in that quiet kind of shopping experience vibe moving there it's super smart if they can afford it yeah and it's also near like where the Bodie shop is that whole area of Paris is interesting to me there's a lot going on and lots of good restaurants and and coffee shops and things and like a lot of young people seem to live there.

34:02Like young people with money and no children.

34:07This was so fun. It's such a pleasure. I'm looking forward to going to the public pool with you someday soon. The least fashionable place. But yeah, it's great. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like that went so quickly. Thanks for being here and come back soon. Thank you. Bye.

34:30Special thanks to Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations Gabi Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.