London (Fashion Week) Calling

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1:34Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is writer and filmmaker Taylor Scarabelli. We're talking London Fashion Week, Dario Adarmani, Glenn leaving Diesel, and so much more. happy tuesday everyone hope you are having a great week by the time you listen to this i will hopefully be in my lot at shop the story trying on 1990s prod i'm yumu and calvin klein as i said to frequent podcast guests and my friend becky malinsky today is hopefully going to be one of of the greatest days of my life. Just like a lot of good stuff going on.

2:20Some of it I may be able to share on Friday. I don't want to jinx it. But today's also the Prada show, which I'm very excited about. And maybe by the time you listen to this, it will have happened. Vogue World is tonight. I am not going to Vogue World. But I will have a report anyway, obviously. Thank you to all the people going who have been sending me information. There is just a lot going on this week outside of the Milan shows, but I'll be covering those and the Malik will be reporting from MetaConnect. So we'll have some smart glasses discourse. Does anyone wear these things? Please, please let me know.

3:05You also have an update on the Stephen Kolb situation, but let's get going with Taylor. We have lots to talk about.

3:15Taylor Scarabelli, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy you're here. We were just having a hilarious offline conversation where I was saying, like, I already pre-recorded the intro and I said your name correctly and that it was the first time I'd ever said your surname out loud and realized that it was like one of those surnames that's actually very simple but for years i was just like oh you know taylor can you say it with an italian accent though yeah and then the and then you told me what the italians say your first name is i have a silent e on the end of my name because my parents thought it was more feminine but the italians say tellore tellore which i love yeah that's amazing i love it i think your name's so pretty.

4:05How's it going? Congrats. You had a big day today. Congrats on your short film launch. Tell me everything. How did this happen? What's it about? It seems very fashion coded. So yeah, it's been a long work in progress. It basically started because I took an acting class with a friend of mine who had made a short film before. And we started writing something together. And I I was like, well, if we're going to write this, I want to direct it too. And it just kind of turned into this side project I had for a couple years. And now it's finally coming out. It's called The Dress. It's a short satire, like very New York fashion world downtown.

4:50It's about a West Village influencer who is looking for a perfect dress for the TikTok awards. so she decides that she's going to go to a downtown archive to go shopping and it turns into a bit of a humiliation ritual for her but in the end she becomes liberated so it's a really beautiful heartfelt moment i mean i noticed a mr john caramonica is in the film oh yes he does make a guest appearance. It's quite spectacular. I'm intrigued. Yeah, it's super fun. It sounds awesome. So where does it premiere at the downtown festival? Yes, at the downtown festival. And I should add that Miss Claire Sullivan did the costumes.

5:40And all of the vintage archive was supplied by Gabriel Held. So that is the fashion angle for you. That's very cool. So when does it premiere? On October 17th. It's part of a short block with a few friends of mine also have films in it. Kiernan Knives Francis, who is a great photographer and filmmaker. And then my friend Lena Green, who's also an animator. So it should be fun. And will it be also available to watch online? TBD. We'll see about that. I hope so. I think we can make it happen. Yeah. I'm so excited for you. Congratulations. Thank you. And such perfect timing because you were supposed to come on earlier and we had to rearrange it.

6:26And this ended up, this was, it was meant to happen. Sometimes I think I'm like a little bit psychic. Yeah. Yeah. I had nothing to promote before. So this is good. No. yourself, which is more than enough, Taylor. So we have a lot of, it's been a busy, a busy news week. Today, the news dropped that Donatella Versace is going to do a line for Revolve, which is, I think, a great idea. But I'm curious what you think about it. Yeah, I'm very intrigued because I just ran into Dion Lee the other day, and he was kind of telling me about his experience working for them. Oh, yeah. Off the record, so I won't say anything, but like, quite interesting how they're snagging these designers.

7:13They actually bought his company, his label, but they also started a new brand with him. And so I think it's quite smart because it's it is different from what he did before. And I'm curious to see what that looks like for Donatella. totally but i also wonder what is the beauty angle is that sent oh there did they say that they were gonna have beauty too i didn't even see that i believe there's a big beauty angle there oh interesting yeah um i'll need to do a little bit of reporting on that when we get off the phone um yeah i mean i think look like i've known i don't know if i've ever met mike but michael it's mike and michael the co-ceos and co-founders since 2010 or so and i think the interesting thing that they've done a they have all these different so they also bought is it alexander votier is that the other like the couturier yeah i don't know i think that's his name he's paris based um Um, let me just make sure.

8:23I think they also bought that. Yeah. Alexandre, I believe, Vautier. It's V-A-U-T-H-I-E-R. Um, not as easy as Scarabelli, but, um, they bought that, I think it was like an administration or something. And then they have, the other thing that they have is they've done like a lot of, they've done some joint ventures and they also have these brands in house. So like Elsa Hosk's brand, I don't know if she's still with them because it was being sold to, it was being sold to the Greeds who were going to kind of manage it, but they would still do stuff with Revolve. And then also Pia Baranchini's line, LPA, is part of Revolve.

9:14And the other thing is they have, what the two Michaels have done is that they've always had, they have this woman, Raysa, who is their chief brand officer, and she's in all the marketing for the Donatella thing as well. And then they also have Divya, who's their chief merchandising officer. And I think what they've done really well is they are two men but they've hired a lot of really high level women around them who are also the customer so it's like yes they are really smart and and understand retail and all that stuff and but they are part of the customer base and I think really understand understand what the customer wants and um the revolve shares i will i need to look and see if it if this announcement did anything i highly doubt it because this would be you know to start a pretty small venture but um revolve hasn't been isn't beloved it's a public company but it's not a loved on the on the market even though it's um you know a very it it like it they do pretty well but public market just like kind of hates multi-brand retailers generally but um let's see if the if the shares went up today yahoo finance yeah i mean if when i think of revolve too it's like such a influencer targeted company and they've been so good at like being in the right places and on the right people and like totally you know launching their brands on big pop stars and things like that and it makes sense yeah that makes sense for that like it's like hot dresses to go out at night exactly um yeah their shares are up like two percent today let's see year to date year to date they're down 30 percent and last year down 10 but year to date so since january down 30 percent in five year they've probably been public for like they're down 70 percent over the last five years because they went public about five years ago so it's not it's a it's a it's a tough pure public company tough even if you like every malik usually covers their earnings and it's like they're doing fine and yet i mean it's not it's a the the shares are you know in in the 20s so it's fine like it's not like a penny stock or anything but it is just interesting it's a it's an interesting business to be a public company But yeah, I totally agree.

11:58Like, it makes sense. It's the right customer to be for her to align with. And I think it's a nice, like, she doesn't want to stop. She wants to keep doing stuff. And so it's a nice kind of next phase of that. That's a little different than, I don't know, working with a licensing firm or some random, like, they'll have the infrastructure for her to scale it if it works. yeah she'll have more influence than she would elsewhere totally like control yeah yeah it's um it's an it's a great the one thing i did confirm is that the product group who owns versace owns archives so um which is interesting you know the product group also they they own a lot of archives they don't know a lot of yeah and also came up with the galliano zara thing because obviously lvmh owns the galliano archives and the the dior naturally but um but it's an interesting thing when these really big designers start doing stuff for these other companies like they're it's their design so they're gonna make what they want it might look similar but um they can't like actually reference specific or use the the archival pieces to write you know it's an interesting little sorry this is out off topic but what happened to galliano zara seems fine did it come out it comes out soon okay i've heard i've gotten some notes of people who have been like if you search this on Zara you can find it and usually I am like really into that but I I was like I actually don't think this is it so I just kind of dropped it but it will be soon it's it's starting to it will it'll be soon and I do know people who have seen it who said that it is um

14:01it's like real close it's not fantasy galliano so I'm interested yeah Yeah, that's what I expected. Yeah, yeah. And there's just so much interest in Galeano on the secondhand market right now that I'm curious to see what it looks like for sure.

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15:48I'm Erin Moriarty, and from 48 Hours, this is The Woman in the Woods. I have never wanted to be wrong like this in my whole entire life. Follow and listen to The Woman in the Woods wherever you get your podcasts. On the subject of real clothes, what do you think about Dario going to Emporio Armani? I mean, I'm excited. I'm a big stan. I think that I think there's like a point to be made of like whether or not he's gonna be able to actually like re-strategize and like re-merchandise everything and especially because I think like it I think Armani is really interesting because they've been doing the same thing forever and ever and ever and the house codes are so locked in.

16:43And when you have someone like Dario, who is really, I think, kind of a master stylist, as much as he is a designer, you know, I think he's really the right person to take a brand like that and just like tweak it and upgrade it and make it desirable for now. I think he's shown, I think he's demonstrated that he's very good at that. But whether or not he's able to bring that vision across the board with like stores and everything, the way they do their runway shows, I think that'll impact how much he can like turn it around. um not that it needs to be turned around but i think that you know they're trying to sell the company and they want to generate some hype and desire that you know isn't exactly there yeah yeah it's it's interesting because look like you want to talk about a tricky infrastructure you look at versace under capri and pre like and pre capri group like versace's infrastructure was wild like the amount of different entities and and different things that those the now that's being streamlined extremely quickly under the operational savvy of um of the product group but um the fact that he was able to do so much with so little resources and look he had a lot of support from the executive team at Versace.

18:22They really wanted him to succeed. But even that, and Versace has a great atelier that he was able to use, but even all that, he had a lot of crap he had to deal with. Armani is similarly tricky from an infrastructure perspective. And on top of that, culturally, I think it's so different from Prada. where Dario spent most of his career at Prana and Mimu, that that part of it is interesting to me. Like, look, it's Italians and Italians, but like, it's a different world. And so that part of it, like, does he just have a tremendous amount of grit? And will he be able to use that grit and savvy to cut through like he did at Versace?

19:17I think so. and I have a lot of confidence, but I think the thing I learned in doing reporting was that that was actually a licensing business up until a few years ago. It was run by the woman who runs, I believe her name is Christina Ong or Christine Ong, and she runs Club 21 out of Singapore. But she did all, and they, I mean, it was managed incredibly well, but it was a licensing company so um and then he armani bought it back i don't know not not that long ago uh so and it's also interesting to think about he's going to be in charge of the accessories of giorgio and um like it's just gonna be interesting and then on top of it they need to sell the stake in the business.

20:07They might be able to extend the time period. But it does just, my sense is I have a feeling like all the Italian fashion community needs Armani to succeed. And I think they would like it to succeed in a more profitable way than it did in the past. And so I think a lot of the Italian fashion executives, they're going to figure something out to ensure its long-term future with executives and a company, a strategic group that really wants to own it. So the next year and a half for that company is going to be pretty amazing, I think, and it'll be fun to watch you know um behind the scenes but the the one thing i would say to you is i was just at london fashion week and i just got out of the burberry show and i walked out and i was like damn the the dario effect in some ways it's also the mu mu effect and the prada effect because he's a a child of that but um it uh the burberry show is pretty good yeah like i was with a i was with a friend who said it's funny it's really funny i kind of want to quote him but i told him i wouldn't but he said um it's funny that the burberry show was good when we walked out and it was because i had like pre-written it being like i'm gonna finally say that burberry needs to have a stronger point of view and be more yeah like interesting and it was I mean I still think I there's I don't know if long term but I thought it was a really fun show I did you like it from afar yeah um I just like I right before our call I like put on the video and then I was just like quickly going through Vogue runway um the men's looks man but the women's really strong there was some really fun things going on and yeah styling was great um I was shocked also I mean shocked is a strong word but I was like I was impressed it was it felt like a pivot and I was like wow we're so back Daniel Lee is so back yeah I felt like it was like the Daniel Lee from Bottega is that possible yeah I was like I didn't know you existed yeah it did like I love this like track suit this like red pinstripe it's so good it's funny because Becky Malinsky was like um she's like that's she's like I know which look you want and and I showed her this other look and she assumed that one I said oh I assumed you would want that look I loved I loved it too but I loved the um it was like a grayish purple floral maybe or it was I need to I'll just look I'll look at my phone um I took a ton I took it it was like a oh I loved this this look this set I would not wear this but I did love it it was it was like a khaki with um yeah all the all the Trump loyal was beautiful um I feel so brave for trying to say that word it on your podcast you did you were good I'm not gonna try obviously um the other yeah it was really yeah it was and it's like you know there's still there's still the Burberry motif but not like hitting you over the head with it it felt strong the central sea little appearance like a little celebrity but not too over the top yeah yes there was and also the bags were really good and then we just got it and the shoes were great.

24:04But yeah, this was like a little like lavender floral print set and then like a lavender plaid underneath shirt. I really liked it. I also, as I admitted to Becky, if the girl has hair that I could try to achieve on my own, it does affect my interest in something. This also feels very like London spring dressing. Like you need a little coat, you need a waterproof skirt, a water resistant skirt. Like it's, it's chic and practical. It was chic. It was really, really nice. And really fun patterns. Yes. Yeah. I really liked it. What else have you seen from the shows that you've liked or disliked?

24:52Well, I was, we can talk about Mulberry, I guess. Should we start there? it yeah what did you think I I have a lot of feelings about it I I thought like okay I was like yes I would wear these clothes like I could see you wearing a lot of it actually yeah for sure but also and like I do appreciate that he kept it simple and to the point and like didn't try too many things like this is it did feel like maybe it could have been a lookbook you know it wasn't so like you know it was it was one idea basically which i think is smart um but i don't know that it's like enough to really like dredge up i think there's so much to say here i think that like you know everyone's rooting for this collaboration everyone decided they liked it before it even came out.

25:54You know what I mean? And I think that it's good. But if you were to remove all the context around it, then how would we feel? Like, does it generate that desire and hype that we really need, like brands really need to break through right now? I don't know if I'd agree with that. And I don't know how I feel about the bags, which is the most important part. for them. I a thousand percent agree with you. I think they're, it's very complicated. And also he's a, you know, he's a good designer because everybody's a little upset about it. Like why it's Mal, who cares about Mulberry? And I think that's the main thing.

26:32I was sitting next to a Brit at, um, the Burberry show also sitting next to Ruthie Rogers, which I have from River cafe which i have to say i took a selfie with her i don't do that kind of thing i was just i could i died i was so excited and it was the best seating i've ever gotten i like i was just the most amazing um fashion show experience of my life to get everyone loves her i she's never been to her restaurant i don't know her but i respect the hype and you it's the hype is she lives up to the hype and also she was wearing this gray Saint Laurent dress that she talks about on the podcast sometimes and she was amazing and we talked about living in Paris when her husband was building the Pompidou it was amazing it was the best like five minutes of my life but or or this maybe the top 10 five minutes moments um but anyway the other person I was sitting next to with Sarah Harris, who's obviously a big British fashion editor.

27:36And what I said to her, I was like, nobody, they're like, I don't think of Mulberry in the way I think of Barber or Burberry. Like, I think of Mulberry as Emma Hill, Mulberry, the cute bags that when I worked at Fashionista, we used to get to order like five a season and we all had like 15 Mulberry bags. Do I own any mulberry bags no no um but i think like it doesn't have it i think outside of england people don't really care about mulberry and also i don't know if anybody in england cares about it being mulberry specifically like if it is the u.s if it's the british coach which it kind of is like i just don't think it has as much that part of it and what i felt in the collection was a he's really strong to a point of you can't not pay attention to it even if you don't love it like there was some stuff that I really liked and there was a lot that I was like it's like making me so uncomfortable and that's part of why he's good like what other designer makes you uncomfortable now like you didn't like the South Park coat um you know you know what What got to me, I don't even want to say bothered because it's too strong of a word.

29:01The fact that all the scallops and ridges were 90 degrees. Instead of being like softer, there was a little mini skirt that had splits up each thigh. One of them was folded in? Maybe. One of them got caught in the photo and that bothered me. Oh, that's so funny. No, this one was like, it had those 90 degree, like, cutout. And I was just like, why can't that just be a slit? Or like a wider slit, it would be easier for me to be, it would be easier for me to like digest it. And so part of me is like, I need to just sit with it. I also there was a big retailer who was like, I love it. And I think there was a lot like there were some dresses that were very obvious homages to Helmut Lang that like a couple people sent me helmet collections from the 90s.

30:07And I'm sure Christopher would be like, yeah, I don't think that was like, I think that was on purpose that were awesome. And I also he used this very light fabric that he said he used in his spring 2012 collection. And it feels like a Christopher Kane fabric. And I would say like the biggest thing for me was like I liked a lot of the ideas. And I just thought they were. It was it was it was to a point there was so much leather in the dresses and stuff. And it's like you don't have to do that. you can make dresses out of whatever you want like Stuart Beavers makes dresses out of whatever he wants and obviously this collection like no no um man I'm just dragging everybody and trying not to but no no slamming Stuart Beavers who I think does a great job in the way he does but Christopher's like like that's a real that was a real fashion collection which is amazing too and I thought the shoes, I liked the loafer, but the other shoes weren't right.

31:12And then the bags, I liked the little slicey bag that's called the chop, the tiny bag. It was like a cooler baguette or something. I liked that bag. The other bags, I could leave. But the thing I would say is, and the amazing amount of goodwill for this person, like people are just so relieved he's back. And then also on top of it, you know how many people DM'd me and they were like, I love him, including two designers. We're like, I love this man. Like people just love him so much. And I love him. Like, I think he's amazing. And I but what it made me think was this man should be designing a liar.

31:56Like they should give him a liar. And I don't know if they probably have found someone. I don't know. every every week it's a different story but like he is so talented yeah and i know like owning your own brand is is insane and you should like most people like he did it forever he managed it forever he shouldn't have to deal with that bullshit he should be at a brand where he doesn't have to like he doesn't have to use the lock the mulberry lock like he did a fine job incorporating that like in that loafer and whatever but like I want him to and it you know it's hard and I bet next season will be a lot stronger even though this was really strong it just was like in a way it was controversial like that's I don't know it was so interesting because I just was like this is making me uncomfortable to look at but also it's not bad i don't because of like the parameters that he was under like i think he or like this kind of like idea of playing it safe in some way that made you uncomfortable i think it's that he there was so much attention paid to the history of mobbery like it's interesting there was like a broidery anglais look that i was like Like, oh, that actually like slices through all the hardness of the leather.

33:24And that was inspired by a collection, a 1975 collection from Mulberry that's like this historic collection. I like that because it didn't really look like anything else, but it kind of cut through the harshness of the. The thing that was hard for me was the 90 degree angles on all the scallops or whatever you would call them. it just made me yeah but like you could wear that and you would look like cool and sexy in it it there was just something about it that like made me a little uncomfortable but I guess I think that's kind of good that it made you uncomfortable I also think it kind of is like this I think a step ahead of like a return to this kind of like 2010s like geometric vibe which true you know what i mean like it's kind of it's time for that to come back a bit and i think yeah it does feel like a little it does feel like a little future like y2k like every 10 years we get this kind of yeah with yeah with the harsh angles with this like kind of laser cut leather yeah and i think for me right now personally i'm like i'm interested in this kind of minimalism that's still like yeah feels really like feminine and chic but it's got a bit of an edge to it I did like it but it's it's very yeah one note I guess yeah I think um I'm interested to see what next season looks like and also it didn't look it looked like him which was great and I don't know what I think everything I've heard he has a great relationship with the with the CEO and he's very happy working there and and being a part of it so I don't I don't think I think whatever that collection was it was what he wanted like it looked like him yeah but I think he aced the assignment like he did what was asked of him I mean let's see if the bag so which is what is is important and that's the other question should that be his problem like it's not really stewart beaver's problem like they have he didn't create the tote bag that why do people buy this brooklyn tote bag taylor can you explain it to me i guess because it's 250 i don't know but um that's why but i think that the bag he created that chop bag that that'll work like it's super cute and i wonder what the price point is for mulberry i think it's very reasonable okay um but yeah it was interesting and it was um yeah it was just like the way the world works now and you're seeing him i mean the whole weekend i didn't go to many of the new like I didn't go to Steve-O Smith because I was I think I wasn't in town yet but I didn't go to Knowles which I kind of regretted because you know everybody has made a lot of speculation that they are probably the ones succeeding Glenn at Diesel Glenn Martin's a Diesel which we should talk about briefly I don't know if that's true at some point they were they They were, you know, working with him and it was a definite, that's what a lot of people have been saying this week, but I have not done any direct reporting in many, in like a year about this specifically.

37:03But I thought their collection looked really good online. But yeah, I mean, the thing is, you can't really, if you're Christopher, you can't really manage a business like that forever. Simone Rocha, who I thought had the best collection that I've seen. I mean, Burberry was pretty good. But this season, it was just really polished and professional. And she's like so accomplished as a designer. But, you know, she had her parents entire family had a business and her business was sort of her. She got her infrastructure from her dad's business. So she's lucky because she's kind of a second generation.

37:48She is a second generation designer, but also business owner. And so she she can last. That business will stand the test of time. But like, it's just harder and harder for these brands to stick around and be able to keep moving. And Christopher, who is, you know, inarguably the most talented designer in that class of British designers, and, you know, he did everything he could. He deserves to have, I mean, I don't know how much money he's making, but a money job where he gets to just enjoy designing. He doesn't have to worry about making payroll every two weeks or whatever. Which is what Donatella will get at Revolve.

38:34Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. It's true. Was there anything else that you, oh, McQueen, what did you think? I think that the McQueen situation is very emblematic of how CEOs are choosing to hire people these days. I think that there isn't a vision there. And I think the clothes are fine. They're nice. But there's no story. And they hired the wrong person. and I heard off the record like talking to a woman who's been designing for huge fashion houses forever who's like skipped over for that role and just like talking to people in the industry about how these hiring processes happen and who gets these jobs and to me it's just like that's this is what happens you hire people for like an idea of we're gonna have this like bad boy blah blah blah but it's like where where is the vision yeah it's not there i agree i thought the clothes were you can tell that like it's a good atelier the clothes look very nicely done yeah um and i thought like this was pretty there was a lot of like pretty individual pieces um sure I think it's interesting because they have this new C this group CEO Luca DeMeo and so many of the designers all of them were hired before he joined so now he he has to like get the business in track but he also has to deal with the fact that they made I would argue multiple wrong decisions about who to hire as designers um and now like anthony baccarrello is going to leave who was like a right decision but is time's over so he gets to like figure out salarant but and and i think demna is strong enough that he will make it through gucci and he'll have a decent run there and and it's going to be fine like um they just they announced actually during their Capital Markets Day that they were going to have a higher end offering, but there was an Italian outlet last week that said it's Couture and they've hired someone.

41:02I did a little additional reporting and basically what I found out is like, yes, they're going to work on a higher end thing. Is it going to be actual Couture? I bet it'll be like an Atelier Versace type thing where they get they get invited to to show but they don't have an atelier in paris so it's like a different classification it's like a guest or whatever um but i think but also that the i think one of the hires was a vip custom designer it wasn't so it was it was just an interesting story but like so i think demna will be okay but i think and i think the questions are around louise trotter who is bottega's growing and it's i think if it's doing okay and if the customer responds well to her stuff she will be okay i think pierre paulo it's a real question like does he even want to be there at this point like it's he's there's just a lot the what they want balenciaga to be and what he is seems like two different things such a weird mashup right now it's like yes yeah it's really strange how they kept so much of the demna vibe with him yeah and and i think so going back to a queen one they thought about selling this business there was people offered the money for it they didn't end up selling it and i think last night you know Selma Hayek Pino and Francois Henri Pino came to the who owned caring or control caring um the family that controls camp caring they came to the show Luca was there all the executives were there so they are thinking about how they're going to make this work and so I think um look like in some ways it's like it's not this kid's fault that they did this to him but on the another other ways he took the job so it's like a thing of yeah what did they expect he had no he was a he was a designer at Uniqlo like yes he worked for JW Anderson for a little bit but like did you really think he was going to be able to do this and I think that it was just a short-sighted decision when they were just there was so much turnover at that time and a lot of these I need to do a story at some point looking at like the class of 12 or the class of 13 or whatever, because most of those decisions were wrong.

43:44And that will, of course, like you can't, not every one of these appointments is going to be a slam dunk, but I'd say like half have been right. And half of them, I'd say three, four of them have been totally right. Two or three of them have been good but like something's holding them back and the other five have not been good and so it's um it's just an interesting moment but I think you're right about the story like why and there is a why with McQueen but someone new needs to find it in their way and yeah it's not this guy and I think that's the question of like you know why why is this brand still relevant or why are we keeping it around?

44:29Obviously there's money there, but there's like, I think that with these younger houses, it's not so easy to just like take the code and redo it in a way. It's like, what are you replicating? Are you replicating the feeling of this like rebellion and this kind of, this avant-garde collections that he used to do? Or are you replicating these codes of the house? In which case then you could hire fecal matter who's doing that already, right? um yeah but i think there's something interesting like hearing a lot of chatter around this of like what seems to matter to people on the internet is seeing someone with a vision and whether or not that's totally aligned with lee or something fresh is is kind of interesting what i don't know i don't know what matters more but i do think that there's not enough there right now to keep people interested I agree I think that the point I made that's along these lines is like it's about the spirit of that brand like you're never gonna be Sarah Burton was basically like channeling yeah his spirit for and she's also an incredible tailor and dressmaker and all of these things like her skills are incredible and she worked with him forever.

45:55Like they, if they want to keep it, this is what I recommend. Every rich lady I've talked to in the last year who's a professional is like, I love my McQueen suits. Make great tailored suits that you sell at Net-A-Porter and at Saks or whatever to and and custom to clients as like your base you have someone merchandise the shit out of a skull pattern in a cool interesting way because that's definitely possible and then you hire great designer who has who's like has a genius spirit and I know that it's harder, easier said than done, but there has to be someone like the fecal matter people. Like I see that stuff and I'm just like, these people have, they have something interesting.