Mad Mag

15:33Lauren:Yeah, and we'll talk more about him. But I think, to me, the thing that he did, he started a Bottega that seems to be moving forward. That last collection he did at Bottega with all the Richard Scarry stuff.

15:48Alastair McKimm:Yeah, I was thinking about that.

15:49Lauren:I remember seeing that and thinking, I mean, I obviously like his aesthetic and am a fan and I had bought a couple Bottega things, but Bottega's just a hard... I thought you were talking about Richard Scarry. Sorry. No, yes, definitely. I'm not a fan of Richard's Scary, Alistair. I don't know if your kids were into it, but I think Richard's Scary is the reason that all these kids have ADHD. I'm not even joking. So that's maybe - Those books are insane.

16:15Alastair McKimm:Yeah, exactly. Well, my kid has ADHD, as do I, so that's maybe the problem, Richard's Scary.

16:21Lauren:It's from all the Richard's Scary books because you look and there's like 15 storylines on each page. I'm like, how do you even know which line to read next? It takes days. It's completely insane. But it was so like the idea, the thing I said to someone, we'll, we'll talk more about Chanel, but as you know, as most people listen to this podcast, no, I got one of the Chanel jackets from the first collection. And so many people I was talking to Vanessa Friedman today about it, who I could tell was like, you're a, you're a freak. Like I could tell she was just like, how you're insane. And I said, look, like I'm not going to buy anything else.

16:57Lauren:I promise. And when I was like 14 years old and I wanted to be a fashion writer and go to shows and write about them, no joke, since I was 14, this is what I dreamed that it would look like. And it's never looked like that. And there's something about him that he's like trying to get to the core of like this wonderment of seeing something for the first time and like really enjoying it and feeling this. And I remember that Richard Scarry collection where I was like, these people look like what I wanted to look like when I grew up. And I feel like that's what he's doing and why everybody loves it so much because it's fulfilling this like childhood fantasy.

17:39Lauren:When you still believe in Santa Claus, you can believe that like clothes or whatever can transform you. And it's just like really fun to be, to witness because.

17:50Alastair McKimm:Yeah, he really understands that world of wonder and the naivety and the excitement of your eyes fully open to the world. And that's very childlike. Yeah.

18:05Lauren:I thought that Marc Jacobs caught that too this season. And sometimes doesn't, sometimes doesn't. His ideas are always so, he has so many. But obviously you work on that show. Yeah. What did you think of how he presented it and the fact that I loved the credits and receipts page where he showed all the different references, including some of his old collections, Saint Laurent collections, Miu Miu collections, Comme des Garcons collections. And it was just such a it was so such a cool way to see the way his mind works. And then the end result was totally Mark. And that felt so good. And and was another person who when I was in high school was I was just totally obsessed with him and wanted to write about him and go to his shows.

18:53Lauren:And this show in particular gave me the feeling of, wow, like I got to actually do it. But what were you all thinking behind the scenes?

19:00Alastair McKimm:I mean, I think Mark was sort of the gateway drug to fashion for all of us, right? I mean, he's sort of just like ever-present for our generation. I mean, that's the thing with Mark. And like, you know, of course, as a super Mark super nerd, I kind of know all of the sort of doors that he opened and all the things that he started. And, you know, I mean, he kind of like invented like the artist collaboration and the designer collaboration and like all of those things that we sort of take for granted today. And I think, you know, he's always done those programs where he's credited everybody for the shows.

19:33Alastair McKimm:It was just interesting. Like I posted it on my Instagram after the show and it got picked up and, you know, everybody was really excited to see like everybody gets credited. Like, you know, whether it's like the team that helps on the show or the atelier that, you know, everybody that works on the show, no matter what level you get credited in the program, including all the models and what they're wearing. But the credits and receipts was super cool because I think it's really nice for designers to not try and hide the fact that they're influenced by other designers and that everybody's just inspired.

20:10Alastair McKimm:And especially for Mark, Mark's such a fashion lover and he loves designers and he's so supportive. And he's sort of become such a mentor to so many designers now because he's like a living legend and one of the last of that era of iconic designers. you know and i think you know what the weekend that we were working on the show prep like he was talking about you know no matter how many collections you've done you're always like you always want people to like it it's it's more of like a psychological thing of like validation seeking through our through our work or whatever and then the fact that now like with instagram social media and all of the world in which we live in today like everybody's a critic right so So we were talking a lot about that.

20:53Alastair McKimm:And then he posted on his Instagram, like the man in the arena quote by Roosevelt, you know, and it is kind of amazing because it's so true today that like everybody's become a critic and everything gets torn down and like negative reinforcement actually, you know, it really does affect people. And I think, you know, criticism in itself is I guess like an open platform today like that's what it is and you just sort of have to be able to how do you deal with that you know as a creative and it really can like affect your not only your mental health and your creativity but also your business right so I think um the man in the arena quote is amazing about basically like unless you've done this job like how can you really criticize it you know but then I think you know when it comes to fashion we all we all have to have our own perspective and our own point of view and we we definitely you know kind of refine that as we as we get older as well but I think my sort of sentiment with all of that is really just to talk about what you do like you know I think there's some there's so much negativity now you know and I think instead of something that was sort of drummed into me as a young creative like when I started working at ID was this mantra one of ID's mantras from Terry and Trish like the the founders was like we're fans not critics so they were like just focus on what you love rather than what you don't love like everyone's gonna like hate things or not like things or whatever but i think there's something to be said and i was thinking about a lot this was like the weekend before fashion month started when mark was talking about this and i've just been thinking about it all month like just focus on like go towards the light right like focus on what you love and like it's so easy in our business and also it's like this sort of bonding mechanism of like everybody talking shit about each other or talking shit about other designers or people you're not working with or whatever and i think um that's kind of you know what i sort of took out of this whole show prep as mark was really that which doesn't really explain to you much about the clothes but i think that's the way mark works it's so psychological in a way and philosophical And I think when it comes to the clothes, I think we had sort of reached peak oversize last season with our 19 silhouettes, which were really extreme.

23:23And the fact that we only did 19 because they were all really, instead of doing groups like

23:29Alastair McKimm:we do in fashion shows where we sort of build groups and one look leads to the next, these were like 19 standalone characters. That's why it was such a small amount of characters in a way, because it's easy to make a 40-look show if you're duplicating things three or four times. But if you're doing these standalone characters, then it becomes very edited. And I think for this season, it was like, where do you go after you've gone as extreme as you can? And I think for Mark also, he just instinctively wants to do something that excites him, that's it.

24:05Lauren:you know yeah it's funny because the criticism post that he posted I mean obviously I'm I am pro-criticism but I feel complicated about the the flood of criticism online because I in part of me thinks well everyone can have an opinion and a lot of times there are people who have insights who you know don't have any authority but actually are really smart and make me think differently but I also think I think there's the lack of it's everything is so polarizing and there's like a lack of understanding the gray area and the thing I will say about Mark is I thought it was interesting you posted that because I think of him as someone who's actually very open to criticism in terms of like I've written a lot of tough things about his business and and also just generally I think he's not always been there have been collections where he will get panned or people are frustrated with him and I feel like he is very respectful of of that job But I think the challenge now is there's just so much online and I find it exhausting.

25:28Lauren:And sometimes I'll say to people like, why do you even read this stuff? But it is, and you see it in the political landscape and you see it a lot in fashion. And there was something like the Calvin Klein show, for instance, like that show was bad. I'm not going to say it wasn't bad. But what I will also say is that there were things that were better about it. And that's a very complex situation that I think very few people who even cover this business understand how tough it is for that designer and also for all the people who work there. and the lack of willingness to see the 360 point of view on it is what I find so exhausting about like I don't know about you but I get messages from people all day long with their opinions of the collections what they think and some of them have a real education or a real background where I really do value their opinion and a lot of them you know I I'm willing to take it but I'm like dude you don't what why do you care about this yeah i mean you know obviously i've sort of worked on the other side of fashion shows and i remember you know working in paris and doing huge shows and

26:49Alastair McKimm:being so committed and like you know you literally finish a show and it's like you've given like your life and blood to this thing and then you walk out and someone's like meh you know like that's tough and i think like it's that kind of attitude that i hear i mean i think i think with you like you you know, what I love about Lion Sheet is that it's about information. I love information. Like, I love information. I live for that. Like, I want to know everything. I'm so curious about, like, our business and the people that work in it and the creativity that goes into that. And also just understanding the sort of, like, creative versus business and, like, all of this thing.

27:27Alastair McKimm:So it's not like just, you know, there's just a lot of sort of on social media and I just, like negativity for negativity's sake because it does do better it actually does better on the algorithms and whatever and it's like actually why did these anonymous people get to have an opinion and it really hurts people you know like personally and yeah and with their careers so anyway i don't know where this conversation is going it's sort of taking a turn but i think you

27:52Lauren:know i agree no i think it's interesting it's interesting and and we're gonna we're gonna share are opinions about the rest of the collections in yeah exactly a very short amount of time i want

28:02Alastair McKimm:to go back to what you said about what you said about calvin klein yeah i thought that it looked

28:09Lauren:look i don't i think the individual pieces is challenged i also think it literally doesn't matter raf simmons and matthew blasey and peter mulier were there and it didn't work because the company cannot cannot manage a ready-to-wear business it will never be able to it's not it's a company that doesn't even make clothes they they have a license that makes their underwear and denim and stuff like people just don't understand and so I think that that that the designer is she's handicapped in so many ways but then on top of it but I did think like she switched stylists this season she worked with marie shea who was just like an incredible runway show stylist and i did think it was a clearer idea and so but no one said that no one i said it in mine but like i know did you what did you think as a person who can do this who does this

29:11Alastair McKimm:like i think the problem was is that you know you you're not leaving that show with a clear idea of what's being said and i think that's exactly what i was like talking about earlier was the point that like it has to be so crystal clear like there's so much noise now the brands have to be crystal clear calvin was not crystal clear balenciaga was not crystal clear those are the collections for me that stood out as ones that were not precise there was no proposal of any silhouette shape form like what is it you're trying to say i would rather see the same silhouette 50 times and then walk away and know what they're trying to say and then be like okay i know what the campaign's gonna look like i know what the marketing's gonna look like i know what people are gonna look like wearing this clothes like whenever it's just a mishmash of like a showroom it doesn't make any sense for anybody because we can get clothes anywhere it's but i think that's why like the middle's falling high like we need super high luxury fashion and then there's amazing high street from like gabbage and am zara like everything in the middle is so tough and it's so tough to compete with financially.

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31:22Lauren:You know what else I really liked in New York is this brand, Colleen Allen.

31:26Alastair McKimm:Yeah.

31:26Lauren:Have you seen this?

31:27Alastair McKimm:Yeah, I heard you talking about it as well on your podcast.

31:30Lauren:I think that she... I was thinking about this recently because I remember going to Jonathan Anderson's studio in East London in 2011 with Swarovski because they were like and it was his first women's wear show and I was like in the studio with him and the Swarovski PR person and he was putting together the women and I ended up buying it was like a it was a woven navy jumper that had like ribbons woven on the front and then like a stiff plastic yellow collar I bought I bought it from I got it on Moda pre-order um but I remember like thinking oh this this guy is it like I knew then and I'm not I'm not some like but you just could tell and there aren't I there's not a lot of people like that right now I think that she is she has a lot of skill and there's something really beautiful about the stuff she makes really commercial really specific and like the like Jonathan in his Dior show did like the button, the covered button.

32:42Lauren:And it was so gorgeous. Those jackets, like the little bridal buttons. She's been doing that sort of a kind of thing like that for a long time. She just uses little fasteners. But I think, I don't know. I think like she, out of all the things that are happening in New York, she is the one that I think, oh, she could potentially, she's so young. maybe she has it in her to you know 15 years from now be at one of these houses i don't know and i don't know if the industry works in the same way where she'll have the she'll get the sort of support that she needs or if she wants it like she's building her own brand but she's the one out of all the young new york designers who i think is like really skilled right and could

33:29Alastair McKimm:potentially do something more and that's the thing you need to be able to make clothes not right like you know and understand that right because there's not enough of that yeah in in

33:42Lauren:london i feel like simone rosa is the best example of like what an independent brand can do yeah and

33:51Alastair McKimm:not even and yeah just and just in general not even in london like like when you think about independent designers like for me it's like her and rick right like people that really and that's what i mean about like laser focus it's like simone's just incredible and she's just done it her way and she's been offered the jobs and she's been offered the paris and she's been offered this that and the other and she's just like so focused and so organized and she knows exactly what she's doing for the next show probably already you know and like that's just how she works and it's like the way that she designs the way she she designs the show she designs in a lineup she doesn't make excess she designs it how it's going to be shown and like i have so much respect for that you know like that's that's like vision you know and i think she does it in a really beautiful way and like she's she's dragged so many people along with her for the ride and i think that's the same as rick right it's like rick's just got his thing and you know and of course those designers could have gone to houses and then probably have a much more difficult life and time and you know and I think yeah it's it's it's a tricky choice I think to whether you take a house or do your own thing and you know but I saw Anthony today from Saint Laurent and he he wouldn't go back to doing his own thing it's like he's done a decade at YSL and it's like you you grow and evolve and and you know you start getting interested in bigger things as well other things outside of fashion you know I think um that's what's interesting I think that's what's interesting for all of us like who grow up in this industry because you know and I feel like I've been doing this like longer than I've been doing anything else you know what I mean so it's like yeah where do you go next from this and for me it's sort of like the creative studio idea which you know isn't a new idea but it's just something that I'm excited to do and I think um it just sort of happened because it's some people just want to some stylists want to just style and style runway shows and that's what they want to do i mean for me i just i'm much more excited and like broadening my horizons and i love image as much as i love image probably more than i love fashion you know so it's like and it's the same for designers it's like where do you go do you stay independent do you do your own thing do you kind of build it slowly and have the freedom there or do you jump into the houses and know that it's a roll of the dice you could be there for one two three or ten years you know so yeah it's interesting and um yeah and i do think um there's just so much competition now that i think what's going to happen moving forward is like a lot of this noise is going to drop by of like a lot of these brands are not going to survive no what did

36:39Lauren:you think of Daniel what do you think of Daniel Lee at Burberry and this season in particular but how do you feel like because that's been a such a journey of him at Bottega and having such a clear yeah like proposition to going to Burberry and not really having someone guiding him and now he has Josh Schulman who's a good CEO and it's doing a good job with it but it doesn't I thought this collection felt more like what I remember Daniel Lee Bottega being, like a little bit more aesthetically closer to that. But it's very much, he's obviously in the service of Burberry, but I'm curious what you thought about it.

37:22Alastair McKimm:Yeah, I mean, I agree. It felt much cleaner and, you know, like that edge that we kind of want from him. And, you know, I think, you know, that's what you want from Burberry, right? Great coats and, you know, and yeah, his Bottega was so I mean I still have clothes from his Bottega that I'm still wearing like even this week you know what I mean it's like he's yeah what he did in his first couple of seasons of Bottega like really changed everything so I'm still wearing the boots I'm still wearing the shirts I'm still wearing the cargo pants like all of that stuff his men's wear was so good it was so good and it's like it's really durable um so you know however long ago that was um um and then yeah i i expected burberry to be more like that like a little bit more like northern england like kind of joy division was what i was hoping for um from the beginning you know i was like yeah you know just like i grew up in belfast and like that's to me what burberry should look like it's like harder it's more gray it's like it's a bit more kind of like working class and And like, even going back to what we're saying about Matthew, like the working class hero, like, you know, the sort of like real workwear and super strong tailoring, heavy fabrics.

38:39Alastair McKimm:Like, that's what I want to see from Burberry is that the Northern England version of that, like the coal miners Burberry, you know, but I love that. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't a big fan of the ruffle, but, you know, other people wear. So it's like, I didn't mind. Yeah, I like the coats a lot. And I was like, yeah, this is cool. And like, for me, I'm either you're either looking for things to photograph or to wear, you know, for me, like, that's what I'm doing. And I know, yeah, people are looking at collections in different ways. I know you love to shop.

39:10Lauren:So I, you know, though, I really try to take myself out of it when, cause I would never wear a ruffled trench coat, but, um, but I do try to think about like sometimes whether or not something has a commercial viability or if there is something, and obviously there, they want to sell coats. and and I think that collection did a better job of like proposing coats I also I just wish I just wanted to be really fun they're doing a very good job in their marketing and in the merchandising of the stores that it just feels like in the similar way that Montclair is just like it's about that jacket they're making it up about the trench coat which is honestly I think such a valuable wardrobe piece now because of the fact that it rains and is scary all the time everywhere and then also you don't really need super heavy coats all the time I mean this winter was great for Montclair's business but the point being that it's like a it's a valuable thing like everyone in who has a certain amount of money should own a Burberry like Burberry

40:19Alastair McKimm:yeah and also for them if they they own something as part of their DNA they they're crazy not to lean into this that's why like yeah that the marketing really makes sense i think it could

40:29Lauren:be fun i i think he i think what is interesting is that daniel lee has obviously taken whatever brief josh shulman has given him and listened and been able to create you know viable collections within that framework yeah i would like it to be more playful and i think that is missing there are a few brands big brands that I think could be more playful and that it would benefit them and and I don't know exactly I can't think of a designer exactly who I think should be there but I know there's there's a couple younger people in London that are would be that are interesting that could do it but I think like thinking about it more in a more playful way and less serious is, it would be helpful.

41:22Lauren:It would add some levity to the, I think what Josh is probably trying to do is look at what they did with Stuart Weaver's at Coach, which has been very, very successful. But I think like they have an opportunity to take that like one step further and bring in like a really young, interesting designer who's also a responsible human being who can manage a big brand like that, which is hard to get that mix. But then think about things in the way you're talking about like explore work i mean burberry is so connected to like chav culture and all that too in england that like is there a way to explore that intellectually that could be like look at how mutual product is exploring more working class culture exactly in all these different ways that like is a little can be a little like today at yumu i was a little uncomfortable like it it was and at backstage she was talking about how like she was thinking about how we're all just small we're basically specks in the world we're we're each so small but like building a sort of I don't know armor around it through clothes and I asked because no it was really weird backstage I think everyone was so tired no one was asking questions and I usually don't at Prada because I'm like I feel like I'm not grown up enough or something but I was like did you feel melancholy and she said no but I was like I did I thought the clothes were great and there were so many individual pieces that were just like oh a they reminded me of like what I thought of Miu Miu when I was younger and there was like that nostalgia feeling but also they were just great things and great shoes and all of that but I also was like wow after going from Matt to where you're just like everything is okay to going to this the reality of life and I was like man yeah I have to go back to my real life tomorrow I know I think yeah I think I always yeah she really like gets to the heart and like makes you think about life in a way I don't even think she realizes she's doing it but I'm always at the end like man she really knows how to get to you like straight to the heart it's amazing that a designer can do that yeah I mean I always like

43:42Alastair McKimm:things that feel I always like things that feel quite grinded I'm not really like a fantasy person so much although I feel like I've been in a fantasy world just being at the shows and like not reading the news I've just kind of like and then I feel like I'm being irresponsible but I've had such a good week because i came here and i just have been immersed in this so i've been so busy with with the shows and work yeah that i haven't even had a chance to like be freaked out about everything else that's going on which is what happens when i'm in new york you know but um yeah but yeah i think uh it's just it's interesting in me because the collections are really strong but like i was sitting in front of a row of women all wearing like aprons looking like my dinner lady from like 1995 from school in front of me like that everyone like really commits to the thing so many dinner ladies sitting in front of me I was like this is really hilarious wild and then when I saw the first gray men suit come eye on a woman I was like oh shit I guess like everything you're wearing on the front row now it looks dated it looks old-fashioned and that's the sort of fashion victim territory that I think is dangerous you know because everybody and I that was the whole audience that Mimi today now looks dated I think yes and also she is is just like

45:00Lauren:I'm gonna do what I want to do yeah and she's not worried about that yeah it's such an interesting like last season the those house dresses and things that made people uncomfortable too but it was bright and colorful whereas this was like okay this is the cleaning person or whatever like the office worker and um it was um it's just it's amazing to me that this woman can make you think about so much other than fashion through a runway collection there's no one else who i never i'm never sitting at a runway show being like wow our world is so fucked up but every time i sit at one of her shows I'm like wow the world is so complex and for somehow she's able to communicate it through clothes and that's just it's so it's so remarkable to me like it's just amazing and it was it was interesting at Prada too their whole exercise of like I feel like what they're doing on the runway is saying we have to sell a bunch of stuff and we know that and we're going to intellectualize that by what we do on the runway and that to me is like a whole other thing that's like that's it's like a lot of it i mean even today it's all commentary on like commerce and and consumption and and it's there's no one else I mean I don't think most of the people who are doing this as a job could even begin to like synthesize something like that but you mentioned the I I know you're like you really pay attention to the news and I'm curious as a European living in the U.S., it was interesting because I feel it more when I'm here.

47:04Lauren:Because you sit down to dinner and people just start talking about the war or they talk about whatever, Tim Blanks, the first thing that comes out of his mouth is some political thing that happened in America that I don't know about. He's like, can you believe that? I'm like, what are you talking about? because I think in most of the U.S. there's so isolationist and so individualist that people do not engage. But it's interesting because this week I didn't feel, I thought everyone was going to be talking about the war nonstop, not only because it was happening, but because it's going to affect the businesses.

47:43Lauren:No one talked about it, which is so interesting because it's like the opposite of what normally happens.

47:48Alastair McKimm:It's almost like too overwhelming at the moment, right? Like we weren't, because we were so in it with what we're doing, we haven't even been able to process, right? And I think that could be it. And, or maybe we're all just getting so desensitized because I think that's also happening. And then again, like at work in the US, we're not even allowed to talk about politics anymore because you don't know who's on which side. And it very much is like, there's two sides. in the u.s i feel like there's very much like two sides you know and and like i mean yeah i could get into it like i grew up in belfast so then i'm like northern irish so then i'm irish in britain and then that's not no longer in europe and then i'm but i'm european because i've got an irish passport but i'm not european because i'm british and like all of this complexity of that stuff is one thing but like in britain growing up which is what northern ireland was and is it it was like there's still there felt like more than two sides of things like there always felt like yeah a little bit of movement there was a little bit of movement you know whereas like in the u.s i feel like it's very much like you're either red or blue like that's it you know yeah and i think

49:00Lauren:in europe that's still like even i was talking to a really liberal person at one of the show a european french person really super liberal left wing yeah left wing i would say is a better totally skeptical of mom donnie which in the u.s it's like you have to be if you're left-wing or you're liberal or you're a democrat you have to be pro mom donnie where i know a lot of yes and and i know a lot of people who have a lot of issues with mom donnie i'm i don't live in new york i didn't vote so i i have no well yeah i mean i'm not going to share my opinion but for him

49:37Alastair McKimm:and I was very optimistic and, you know, more will be revealed, right? Like, let's see. Let's see what happens. But I know this city's filthy. You come to Paris and you're like, wow, this is so glamorous. Oh, my God. Milan's super clean.

49:56Lauren:Milan is clean. So what – I know you weren't in Milan, but were there any shows that you were, like, really excited about or you thought looked interesting from afar?

50:07Alastair McKimm:I was so excited about Gucci. Yeah. And I know that it's like, that's the strength of Demna. It's polarizing, right? People are totally freaked out either way. It's like you're freaked out either way, you know. I think he did exactly the right thing. That's what I think. He did exactly the right thing for the brand. We know what it is. It's so Demna, but it's a new Demna. And I think I love his satire always. And I love his extremity. And I don't think I think we have to just live in the extremes in fashion. And I think he's so good at that. And I love that.

50:47Lauren:Yeah. And also the show looked great in person. And speaking of online critics, fuck off about the quality, people. You don't know what you're talking about. I talked to a designer who worked at Gucci for a long time who said the quality has not been the same since Frida. And anyone who acts like it suddenly went downhill doesn't know what they're talking about. Because the quality of clothes has just changed. And the quality is perfectly fine. And that was an example where I was annoyed by the online conversation around it. You're ready to protest. What do you all know about this? What do you know about quality?

51:25Lauren:People get mad about, yeah, it's so annoying when people like one of Sarah Shapiro I work with was like, people are complaining about the quality of Lululemon leggings right now or the quality of aloe leggings. And I was like, this is just when they don't like a brand, they say the quality is bad. They don't know what they're talking about. No one, anyone who thinks they know what they're talking about. Zara is great quality clothes. And they're really, really nice. Like people are just, they're just full of shit. But I thought, I really enjoyed it. it was a great show and also there was shit I wanted which like as I've said many times on this podcast and elsewhere I love Demna I'm a huge fan of him I've never been a shopper of his stuff and I liked Gucci a lot the proposal I've never bought one piece of Gucci now I want stuff and I think that that's interesting like I'm a pretty basic B you know so basic B it's good

52:21Alastair McKimm:that's really funny i mean i think um i bought lots of balenciaga because i'm sure and i'm not skinny so you know it worked for me you're skinny enough i'm great i'm great an oversized bomber jacket and like baggy pants that's my thing i love a black hoodie so balenciaga i was like happy to buy um so i don't know what i'm gonna if i'm gonna buy gucci or what i would buy from gucci but i just love the brand the thing is like i said it's like i'm either looking at it to to photograph editorially or to wear and there's so many pictures in that collection there's so many shoots you can do and you know i was thinking about this like damn this stuff you really want to do photo shoots you know you really want to shoot it it's characters it's cool it's like those are great great clothes to shoot because people look amazing in them and i think you know i was thinking this with selene with michael ryder selene that's not something where you're like oh my god i have to shoot this because i feel like the way that he the way that he styles it and the way that he serves it up and the runway shows that he does it's kind of peak selene you can't then take that apart and make it better it's as good as it can possibly be he's like the best michael ryder is the best stylist out there like amazing i wonder if it would be cool to have him style a shoot

53:43Lauren:yeah story idea for you i have him style a shoot with his clothes and other people's clothes yeah

53:49Alastair McKimm:and maybe just vintage i don't know yeah i'll take that back though olivier is the best stylist

53:56Lauren:the best the best i agree i mean i think the michael thing is so fascinating because I said it feels very like for us by us. Yeah. But like it's interesting because a lot of Europeans like it. And even I think now everyone's come around to Chanel. Yeah. But originally the Europeans were kind of like, I don't know about the Chanel. Whereas all the Americans were like. I mean, I was so happy. you don't know I got hate mail last season because people were like you're being too nice about Chanel and I was like you're insane it's the best thing

54:35Alastair McKimm:they thought you were getting a kickback or something

54:37Lauren:yeah no

54:39Alastair McKimm:I am but I think Saleem was like my favorite show of the week it was a highlight I thought it was I just loved the whole experience it's the whole experience like as far as like holistically as a show the clothes the set the sign everything you know the sandwiches the water like whatever whatever they were serving us up like i was loving it i think salim was the best show of the week um and hiders tom ford was amazing alia was amazing son le ron was amazing dior was amazing like there were so many great shows right come to garçon was insane i love come to garçon as you know i wish i had gone you know i never go

55:25Lauren:to the Japanese.

55:26Alastair McKimm:That's my, that's my church. Saturday is like calm day. And now there's like all the calm shows plus Celine and Hermes. So it's become like a bit of a luxury day.

55:38Lauren:Well, when I worked at Business of Fashion, there were so many of us that, and like, they don't, I would have had to stand or something. And I was just always like, it's fine. I'm just not going to go in it well it's fine like it was not I was not a priority at those at that company and nor should I have been but um I I saw Daisy Hoppin in in London and she's like if you want to come request we would like to have you and I was going to and next season I will but sometimes like for me because I am thinking about the commerciality of this stuff and obviously those clothes are there is commerciality in comb it's an incredible business it's just like i am not i don't always have something to say unfortunately her show notes were so good this time about black yeah the color black and i was like i would have been able to write a thousand words on this i should have gone because you just never know like sometimes but i don't like to go to shows and not write about them and so i was like you know i'm gonna take and i had to deal with like getting our apartment ready for my family to come.

56:44Lauren:So I was like, I'm not going to go to those this time. But the thing is, speaking of inspiration, like she is the basis of so much of what they all do that like to not witness it firsthand when we have the ability to is sort of sacrilegious. And now I feel, Daisy, I really hope next season when I request I'll stand, I don't care.

57:08Alastair McKimm:I would second that. sacrilegious is a really good way to put it it is my church on a saturday in paris and uh yeah it was amazing and the music was amazing and i literally like sat there for a couple of minutes after it finished i just like was loving it it was incredible and i do love that she actually gave a quote because it does help yeah sometimes it's one word it really does yeah oh

57:36Lauren:That's funny. Yeah, I think it is really, I don't always do the backstage interviews or whatever, but I do find them to be really helpful and make it easier for me to write about it. Not always. Sometimes there are some of the, some of the designers don't like to do them. And I understand like there, it's just, it's also really crazy and insane can be nuts.

57:57Alastair McKimm:But I'm really torn with the backstage thing because I always want to go back and like congratulate people. And then if you don't get in there like first, then you don't get to do it for like so long you know because like then it becomes like the interview time then like you know just takes forever so like either you're close enough to go run in and give the designer a hug or you're not like I can't stand around for an hour waiting

58:19Lauren:because then I'll miss the next thing yeah and it just depends I mean every backstage is is run differently I really enjoy the Prada backstage because it's completely nuts and there's like a bodyguard protecting Yucha but her and Raph both I think are really good at communicating together yeah what they have to say yeah and I love their dynamic it's really fun to hear them sort of running into each other's sentences and in a playful way and and they all always have something

58:50Alastair McKimm:fun to say but um they really do binds off each other so well right they're really good at speaking together it's like such an odd couple but they're just amazing and Raph with his coke zero yeah

59:00Lauren:how do you feel about their partnership like as like thinking pre product pre-raf and now like

59:10Alastair McKimm:how what's your take on it i mean i love it i think it says a lot i think it says a lot about her as a person and a designer that she can do that you know i think like that's the coolest thing i mean she's she's just like wonder woman right but i think like that's so cool that and I I mean it was Raph Simmons work that got me into fashion like that was when I was like oh my god I can see I can see my friend like whenever he started shooting in the 90s his his shows and doing like portraits of boys with like haircuts that like my friends had in Belfast and all those things like that's that was my like sort of invite into the fashion world so like I'm a massive Raph fan.

59:58Alastair McKimm:Like that's for me like it all comes stems from Raph and I think you can really tell that they work well together. Not only when they're speaking backstage but also you can tell by the designs and like the collections and you know having Olivier in the middle of those two is like amazing. The fact that like he was working with Mewtwo before and he was obviously came up with Raph and then they're all working together and what they create is incredible it's like impeccable it's it's always a master class

1:00:29Lauren:of like fashion and style so yeah i'm i'm um i'm such a fan of every single thing he's done yeah and and the way he works with other designers like i think it's it's um and everything he does is so um it has so much energy yeah i just love i loved i've loved every i love jolstander i love the dior i love the calvin i obviously loved his his collection and every single thing has been something that i feel like really personally connected to and obviously she is makes you feel so much just by looking at whatever she does the two of them together speaking of like me having shopping problem I never bought Prada before him and I think there are a lot of people like I actually I just got a vintage Prada skirt that I think is like probably from the 90s but um in the era of me being able to buy designer clothes I was not it I was never a Prada person it's like too too girly it was too girly for me or something or too too I don't know it just wasn't right for me I really liked it, but it wasn't something I would wear.

1:01:44Lauren:And since he's arrived, like I've bought a lot of stuff. Like it just is, it's felt so much more connected to me personally. I love, I love their dynamic so much.

1:01:56Alastair McKimm:And like you said, like the merchandising just feels so good. Like you can go into the stores and buy things, you know what I mean? It's always like, there's always like really amazing product as well as like the shows, as well as the concepts and the intellectualization of the shows. There's always amazing product in the stores, you know. I agree.

1:02:19Alastair McKimm:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving, princess meeting and greeting, lightsaber clashing, the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping,

1:02:31Lauren:Banshee flying, Space Mountain launching, Galaxy rewinding, What's the world that looks galaxy rewinding? Fireworks igniting. World of Other Worlds.

1:02:43Alastair McKimm:For whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort.

1:02:50Lauren:This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Spring calls for a wardrobe refresh, and Nordstrom has the best styles of the season. From dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories, find the trends and essentials that feel right for you. Discover new arrivals from brands you love, like WAIFE, Princess Polly, Mango, Adidas, and Free People. Plus, free shipping and returns and freestyling appointments make everything so easy. Shop in stores at Nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app.

1:03:23Speaking of great product, can we talk about Isabel Marant?

1:03:26Alastair McKimm:Yeah.

1:03:27Lauren:Because I loved it.

1:03:28Alastair McKimm:Yeah. It's great.

1:03:30Lauren:I thought it was great.

1:03:32Alastair McKimm:yeah it's kind of i mean yeah not to sound like you lauren but i just wonder what the price point is because it just it looks like gap or h &m or something but it's like it's really expensive yeah no i don't think so yeah it's really good i thought it was really funny because

1:03:51Lauren:it's not like i i i always think it looks nice and it it is it's it's their thing and they have this new designer, Kim Becker, who is, who's been there for a long time and she's Dutch, but like, she looks, yeah, she's cool. And, um, she's like, no nonsense and looks Frenchy, but like is this Dutch lady. I think it's so interesting, but, um, I don't know. This collection was like, it was funny. A friend of mine from college was like, oh my God, I love this. I'm like, this is literally what we wanted to be wearing in college. yeah if there was just something about it that all the like little vintage 80s shoes yeah it was fun i thought it was a cute collection yeah and it's a fun show to end the day on it's

1:04:36Alastair McKimm:got that's the sort of energy you need for like the last show of the day isn't it you know it's like yes you feel the energy but you know going back to like raf and matu and peter and like there you know going back to calvin and like i just and it's the same with with hyder you know

1:04:54Lauren:he had a tough run and now he's like oh my god i don't know that's what i've been really excited

1:04:59Alastair McKimm:about is like the designers that you know the the businesses weren't able to figure out how to harness their energy and now they all feel like they're in the right places you know and now we're going to see like where yes where peter's going to go with versace i think like you've written about this that it's kind of it's a no-brainer we know it's going to be great whatever it is we know what it is but it's going to be great and like he's an amazing merchandiser and like i think um you know raf peter and matthew heider they all like had this moment of like trying to find their place in the world and like not being supported by the right brands and now they're just like on fire and like tom ford was so good and all of all of the work that they're all doing is so good and i think you know as a creative it's very much like i don't know i'm excited about it because It's like, yeah, you just need to give the designers the right support and they can and they can produce amazing work, you know.

1:05:51Lauren:Yeah, it Tom Ford was it was fabulous. I cannot wait for Versace. I think it's going to be great. And I totally get why why they wanted him to do it. And I also and Derek and I talked about this where Derek was sort of like it's a bummer that he didn't get more time in Alaya. But I have to be honest, like I just think sometimes things run their course. and maybe he could have stayed for 10 more years and it would have been great and we would have still liked it. But I think Versace is a much, it's a much bigger stage. And also the company is a company that sells clothes for a living. Richemont does not make their profit off of selling clothes.

1:06:33Lauren:They make it off of jewelry. And so I think from my perspective, like if you're an ambitious person, yeah, you're going to take this Versace job. like yes the Alaya job is precious and amazing but I think like let's just be happy that it existed in the same way we're happy that the one season of Dario at Versace existed and move on and see something I'm so excited for it I think it's going to be awesome

1:07:01Alastair McKimm:yeah I think they should do a switcheroo and put Dario and Alaya

1:07:09Lauren:it's not a bad idea Yeah. I have a place, I have another place where I want Dario to go. But I don't want to jinx the current designer. Well, I don't want to say because it's not something that I think is in the works at this moment. But I think at some point, if the current designer has announced that they're leaving, I'm going to put it into the air because I just think it's the right thing. and the current designer has not announced that they're leaving. And I don't know that they're... The point being that it would be just totally made up and I don't do that. If you read line sheet, you know I actually do do reporting and try to be responsible.

1:07:52Lauren:So I don't want to put something into there. Yeah, sometimes I dream. But like...

1:07:57Alastair McKimm:You know who else I think would be Greta Adelaide is Christopher Cain. Who? Christopher Cain.

1:08:04Lauren:Yes! You know, it's funny. I saw his partner this week, Mal, because he has that big party. I didn't end up going to it, which is a bummer because I think, but he just sold his business to the independents. And I was thinking sitting there with him and I didn't say it, but I was like, man, he would be really good at a lie. Maybe that's a possibility. We're putting it in the air. He's really talented. Yeah. Yeah, that I'm happy to put in the air. Let's talk about Balenciaga a little bit. I don't want to disparage because I think Pierre Apollo is a very talented designer. I think that was, you know, it wasn't a good collection for many reasons.

1:08:51Lauren:There were many nice pieces in it. If you were consulting at Balenciaga, how would you advise them to move forward? because it's a challenge because you have a really talented designer whose whose skills I feel like are not being showcased properly I agree I mean I I don't think you hire

1:09:13Alastair McKimm:a designer that's incredible at a thing and then don't have them do the thing you know that's what I don't understand it's like you know his Valentino Couture shows are so amazing I really thought the first Balenciaga Pier Paolo collection was going to be more like demi-couture. I wanted to see big shapes and feathers. Yes. And we didn't see any, but we saw a showroom again, like Calvin Klein. It's like a showroom. It's just stuff. It's nice clothes, but no point of view. And this collection, I don't know what happened but you know the venue was wrong it smelled like car air freshener the euphoria like sam from euphoria's kind of whole like digital screen presentation didn't seem to fit with anything i walked like the the soundtrack when we were walking in was so strange like i walked into like biggie smalls who i love but like not for a balenciaga show like i didn't know what was going on and then I got a migraine and then someone saw me yawning on the live stream and then it was just a disaster like that's not you want to end your night at Isabel Morant not at that

1:10:31Lauren:yeah also they played Steely Dan Dirty Work which I really enjoyed and have been playing on that was like the highlight of that the evening for me because I was like I don't know why this song is playing but I love it and I'm gonna listen to it 45 times afterwards but um but yeah it did

1:10:46Alastair McKimm:none of it made sense it doesn't make sense to me because he's amazing and joe mckenna is amazing and i don't really see what's happening there and there was like you said there's nice clothes um and you just want you just want it to be razor sharp point of view yeah and you want it for

1:11:08Lauren:you know the team there is great like it's just it just doesn't there they need to sort of think about why why do what are they and I agree that I thought that it was going to be real because the thing that people forget about is like yes one thing works but eventually it will stop working and and you need to move towards and the feeling I had was that this was because there was a lot of speculation that Peter Mulia was going to go there and he and I was expecting it to move towards couture and and that idea because like right now what do people want you see on the runway there's tons like the row michael kors like everybody's putting gowns and pants and trousers and like all this really elegant elegance yeah and that's what pierre paulo does and like sell the sneakers and jeans at the store or wherever you need to sell them yeah yeah and like keep it you can keep that and and but i think the problem was like you go to the store and they just put so much into and that's the challenge when you when the creative director is is the brand yeah and and i think all these brands are kind of moving away from that now but they need to figure out what they want balenciaga to be

1:12:34Alastair McKimm:yeah and they shouldn't want it to be like a demna hangover you know no like because that's demna's over this shit too yeah that's not it's not fair on on either house you know no and um no

1:12:47Lauren:yeah yeah it's it's challenging and and i'm like pulling for everybody involved exactly

1:12:56Alastair McKimm:and and like i said there's good there's good clothes there so it's more of like the the show and how it's put together and how the whole thing works uh i know you have to go to

1:13:09Lauren:dinner there's two more things i want to talk to you about duran lantic yes i'm glad you said that because i'm so happy for how'd you i loved it i thought it was really i mean i loved it last

1:13:19Alastair McKimm:season so i wasn't i i loved the first season i love what i loved about it is that he didn't go into the archives and he did like I love that I was like this is punk this is what we want to do if I was still at ID last season I would have done a go to a special for days like it was amazing I loved it it was so young that's interesting and and I just I just thought it was so brilliant he was like I am not going into the archive and like so I kind of wish that hadn't gone into the archive again but i think you know it's sort of the pendulum swung from one extreme to the next and i think it's going to settle and there was still really amazing duran ideas in there and i just think he's absolutely brilliant and i i think like that's that's a young designer taking a house and like running with it and he's fucking major like that's kind of what i I think.

1:14:16Lauren:Yeah, I did not like the first collection and was very annoyed by it. So I preferred this because it was more a funny thing is like I was with someone who works at a retailer and they were like, you think that was commercial? I was like, there are commercial ideas in there. You you spin out the gingham pants and like you make gingham pants like it's it's easy to to make.

1:14:38Alastair McKimm:Yeah, there was great dresses that we were already trying to pull for the Oscars and stuff like there's great stuff there like yeah and and there was a lot of good tailoring in the beginning of the show and then there was like his great you know conceptual ideas and you know yeah it was

1:14:55Lauren:really good his last show for his brand i loved and everybody was focused on like the boobs and the chest and the rubber rubberized stuff when the actual the collection show was amazing it was it was awesome yeah i loved that um and and he is he is i feel like when you think of like

1:15:18Alastair McKimm:ideas he has that's why he gets so much free press because we all want to photograph those clothes because they make exciting images and that's why he's always got so much free press and you know he's been on every cover of every magazine and you know every editorial since he started because stylists love that it's like great things to photograph you know yeah final

1:15:42Lauren:thing I wanted to ask you about what do you think about first of all Chanel interesting it really layered on the first ready-to-wear so there were a lot of looks that were very not the same but had similar ideas like maybe the the waist was dropped further or it was in the same color or the same plaid but in rendered in a different way or whatever like you're laughing

1:16:10Alastair McKimm:but you're still talking about chanel i think you have a problem well i am i'm obsessed to go to

1:16:16Lauren:chanelaholics anonymous yeah yeah yes i do i need to go to um credit card anonymous no i'm just kidding i take i'm responsible what do you what do you think about how his proposal and the fact a two-part question oh what do you think about the proposal generally and b what do you think about this like insanity at the stores because it is really crazy i am so like i'll answer your

1:16:44Alastair McKimm:two-part question backwards i am so happy about the insanity at this at the stores because like i was saying earlier like everything is it's like chanel is kind of like the brand that can lift the whole industry up right it can pull the whole industry up and if everybody's shopping in a frenzy because of chanel it's good for our industry and and it's great i went there today and it's exciting and that you know that obviously the uh i think we call themselves fashion associates the shop assistants are like over the moon because they're having a great time it's like yeah and they got another shipment in yesterday because it was monday and today's Tuesday and everything sold out over the weekend.

1:17:27Alastair McKimm:And I'm so happy for him. He's a brilliant creative director and a brilliant designer and a brilliant person. So, um, yeah, I didn't think, uh, I wasn't expecting a frenzy because I didn't even know that everything was launching this weekend or they timed everything so perfectly because they're just great at what they do. And, um, and it's amazing. And all the other stores felt a little quiet, but I was out today at some shops and yeah it's just like wow it's all like that's fashion right one one season it's a frenzy in one store and the next season it's a frenzy in another and you know and it's chanel's moment and he's brilliant what was the other question the question was about like the sort of oh his

1:18:10Lauren:repetition thing because yeah because the thing that's interesting to me is like as everyone who listens this podcast knows i got this jacket it's very big deal for me that i got the jacket blah blah but the interesting thing a friend of mine who was encouraging me to buy it was like showed me the photo he did of the same plaid that is in my jacket like there was a there was a black and white photo previewing this collection and so this plaid is in in the new collection too and like rendered in a fabric that I definitely will not be able to afford on any level. There was another jacket that I wanted though, that I was like, maybe I should start collecting jackets.

1:18:53Alastair McKimm:I think, I think they might give it to you for free because you're like promoting them so hard.

1:18:57Lauren:Never. No way. A, I don't, I don't accept gifts and B, they're not, they're not going to give it. I did, I did thank you to the Chanel team for providing a discount because I really, I did want it very badly. And I think they were like, wow, this girl is, is kind of like this big iconic no they were so kind and and they're all yeah they were they were awesome so um appreciate appreciate it but um but the point being that like there were just things that it felt like he mirrored it and which made the frenzy in the store more exciting like i am not i said to them i'm like i haven't bought a chanel item in 15 years like and they were like really and and I said no I haven't I bought I have a black flap bag that I bought in 2010 like that's it that's the only other thing I own but um but the shoes and stuff look so amazing and I was like so much of what he did last night you could sort of get a taste of this right now if you went in the store and I thought it was brilliant and also like that silhouette that dropway silhouette that's not going to be an easy thing to get people to participate in or even like the way the double rusted jackets are cut like that's new for a lot of people i was just curious like as an observer of this stuff what you think about that repetition i mean i think i think your job as a designer is

1:20:22Alastair McKimm:to propose new silhouettes so if they don't work that's also okay he's still proposing something and he's proposing something that comes from the archive and comes from coco and it's like very 20s and you know there was something cool about it visually but like yeah nobody wants to have two foot high legs really so you know it's not really like that easy a silhouette to wear but but you have to propose things as designers and you have to push and you have to try and you have to change the perspective and and you also have to you know and maybe people will want really short legs and really long torsos if we do it enough you know like that's the cool thing about it but I think what he's so good at is understanding culture as a whole rather than just fashion.

1:21:11Alastair McKimm:He's such a genius person, and I mean that and not like, oh, you're a genius fashion genius. He's like a really intellectual, very well-cultured person that really understands everything from art and culture and fashion and style and all those things and also like how to make clothes and technique and craft and color and all of it you know and i think that's the success of it and to see on such a grand scale you know because i did wonder like how he was gonna you know his bottega was so became so synonymous with him how he was gonna do match you for chanel and then as soon as i saw the first show i was like well that's how he does it i was like wow this looks like he's doing chanel and it's really worked and everybody's like mad for it so i think it's amazing and i think it's amazing that that you know now we're of the generation that we're the same generation as the designers that are in the big houses and you know whether it's jonathan or anthony or peter machu like they're you know sounds like um or

1:22:13Lauren:michael yeah or demna exactly they're all we're all the all the same age and we've all come

1:22:19Alastair McKimm:together and it's so exciting that now like they're leading the charge um i think that's a

1:22:25Lauren:cool thing to be part of you know yeah it feels great yeah all positives all around now you're leaving the weather's gonna go bad as soon as as soon as you and you're gonna live in paris now you're french i'm gonna live in paris i'm gonna live in paris but i'll be in new york in

1:22:41Alastair McKimm:may so i'll see you i'm sure definitely more to talk about yeah alistair congrats i'm excited to

1:22:47Lauren:hear more about your creative pursuits thank you um creative studio magazine all any and all of it um you'll have to come back on when when it launches in the fall yeah september let's do it to promo um and thank you for this it was such a great conversation so great thanks lauren it's such a good time um keep us posted on everything that's happening i will you better I will. I'll let you know as soon as I know who the Alaya designer is.

1:23:16Alastair McKimm:Yes, please. We'll be tuned in.

1:23:18Lauren:I don't think they have someone yet. We'll talk soon. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy dinner. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabi Grossman.

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