Mailbag Episode!

35:03Like there was a huge exodus of people and he's also changing, like he's changing up calmness and stuff like that. So I think I would say I bet like October or November, December, if that even exists, will be a bigger tell and definitely next March. But I think he's like, you know, maybe I can kind of take some of the flavor of the old GQ and massify it. And the thing about George Cortina and Brad, my guess is that Brad Pitt is like, I will only do a cover if George styles it. I was going to say, I think that's probably right. Because he does make him look great. Yeah. And also the other part of piece of it is the George is very GQ and I'm sure had some sort of deal.

35:54He's it wasn't just Brad. He was styling for GQ. So I think it's it's just it feels like he's Michael trying to push a little further than fashion wise. And it feels like I don't want to say it feels dated to us, but it definitely feels like of this other era. but I think that's like a case of Esquire is more of an everyman magazine at this point and so maybe it's like pushing a little bit and we'll see I think that this is a big opportunity for Michael like I think that in the same way this is a big opportunity for Bizarre what's happening at vogue I think the limitations at Hearst are unique in terms of what they are able to do the budgets they get and also the way that everyone is sort of managed there but um I think it's an opportunity for him to push further into something different and like make Esquire a little bit more something people are talking about because they just weren't um but it was it was is funny it did it was uncanny like looking down and not seeing zach's name i was like oh yeah this isn't gq do you have you heard who's going to be on the cover we don't have to i don't know and also i continue to think i mean we're recording this on tuesday i think by the time people listen but i think the cover probably oh yeah yeah i would guess that's true but i think um yeah to to your point i i mean clearly we're talking about it i think they you know i i poo some of what brad gave in that and that piece but he clearly gave enough that like i mean that clip about that little snippet about him not being sober anymore like that's been everywhere and i think that's that's just good for michael and and good for esquire and and and you know there they this is the whole celebrity complex issue right now is that brad pitt is 62 years old and he continues to loom so large in our pop cultural space yeah finding those new people is really really challenging and you can see the strains of that with something i think like that vogue cover where frankly the star the star wattage is just not quite there yet with homer gear and kaya gerber and it's like you're you're making you're perpetually trying to make these things happen and and yet because of streaming and movie like the way things land now they just don't land the same and making the stars is is is much much different yeah and like who leaked this time i'm sure I think I actually knew about Kaya Gerber and I didn't even write it but when I found out Celine Dion was going to be on the cover of Bazaar I certainly wrote that but again how old is she she must be 65 if Brad Pitt is 60 or they might be the same age I don't know but um but it but the yeah I mean the Vogue cover it's it's not I love that I love that Chanel look and I'm not just saying that.

38:53But I think you're right. It doesn't feel... I get it. I also think a challenge is that Kaia Gerber's styling on the Shars press tour has been really strained and odd. And I don't think I got... It's funny, I wrote a little item about it, because someone was like, I was in a group text, and someone was like, she just looks like an old lady. It's not an extremely hot old lady but like the hair and makeup aren't right with the conservative dressing and um it was funny i got so many messages from extremely high profile people about it being like totally we've all been talking about it like extremely high profile so i think um yeah it just it i get it i understand the thing about like we cannot grade Chloe Maul the way we grade Mark Waducci or we grade Adam even or we grade Michael or Samira like she is in the toughest situation of all of these people she has she doesn't have total control and and so I think she is trying her best and I hope that someday she is able to synthesize her uniqueness which she is aware of and gets like she just posted this week of her holiday in France where I think her family probably has a house in the south of France it's not pretentious in any way it's awesome like these are amazing photos I just like want to like I loved it it was just She's at the market, but it doesn't feel staged.

40:37It's just normal. It's been awesome. I love her social media. Actually, I think it's aspirational, but accessible in the way Chloe is accessible. I think that maybe is what her vogue should be, which is it needs to feel more aspirational than it is feeling, but it also needs to not feel, and it needs to feel educated. Like she has all the privilege in the world and all the education and all these interesting things. She's such an interesting person. I want that to come out in Vogue because Vogue does not need to be, as Will Welch proved with GQ, Vogue does not need to be the every woman. For sure.

41:24But it needs to feel aspirational and a little bit weird. And I think like the Shards would be a good, cover for that because obviously brett east east and alice is totally deranged in a beautiful way and you could like play with that but it just feels like and i maybe they were trying to like throw back to early 2000s article like photos and i don't i don't know but um it just it was i the jc penny thing was exactly right and um i hope she figures it out and i hope that she is given the the freedom to because um it's it's tough i'm excited i i assume i will not be going to vogue world you probably will but like i'm excited to see how this vogue world is and to see if she was given a little bit of agency to put her to her stamp on it and and all of that stuff but it's she is i cannot judge her in the same way like adam i'm gonna be real tough on that's what I will say yeah I I think that's fair I think that's very fair and and and again I think I think that really I continue to think that this that this remains like filling that many covers a year I just I and maybe this is because I I'm too I watch too much television I paid too too much attention to movies like I think that this remains just like a star power problem that these magazines are going to continue to have and and I and I also just think you said the word weird and like that's now just rattling around in my brain like there I think there needs to just be a little have been more weirdness like i i felt like that timothy chalamet cover where he was like the little prince on the on the planet like that kind of actually was getting somewhere where it's like i know it was so during it was so crazy at least like get people like talking about it like pushing the image of those celebrities like i think that a cover can do well when it when it brushes against the image of a celebrity and it's hard when these celebrities don't have an existing strong image to play against or to affirm.

43:29And that's, I think what we're seeing a little bit here is like Homer gear is basically an unknown quantity to most people. How do you play with that celebrity image? You can't. And so you end up with something that's just kind of down the middle. Nice. And that doesn't always cut it right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're going to go to the questions. After three hours, we always hit the questions. I don't, it's, yeah, I really, I mean, I have to leave in 45 minutes, so we're going to have to really go through it. We'll do the last, the first question last. What's the point of the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund?

44:07Most brands that do it don't last. Well, I mean, I think that you can't look at it. It's like, it's like a batting average. People get up to the plate. They hit, you know, most of the time they don't. You expect them to hit somewhere around, you know, what, 300, batting around 300 probably. Like, that's pretty good. Like, I think that's probably where the CFDA is in terms of the brands that still exist. It's not their job to make these brands exist forever. And I think that that's an important thing to factor in is like it's there to help certain designers get to the next stage in their career.

44:44It's not necessarily saying, hey, you're going to be there forever. There is some merit to this, though, where I'm kind of like, why does this continue to exist? We don't necessarily need this many brands out there. I hate saying that, but that's just the reality. And I think a lot of brands in New York that I like and respect have not gotten this route, haven't had to go this route, and still have found a way to be a going concern. I think once you start playing that game, you're in that game for a while, and then you're not. But that's also a reflection, frankly, of how consumer tastes change and the retail landscape change and what's hot that moment changes.

45:18And, you know, we in fashion tend to think that brands should be forever because that's, you know, what we look to as the greatest is brands that have existed for our whole lives, quote unquote. But I think it's better to think of fashion often as like the restaurant business. Some restaurants make it for 10 years and that's incredibly successful. And that was great that they did that. And some restaurants make it for longer than that. And most of them make it for shorter than that. And that's it. Yeah. Great, great points. I would back it up by saying, if someone asks me whether they should do this, I almost always say no.

45:53Yes. Because it costs a lot of money. Yes. Like if you don't have the money to throw into it because you have to do a brand book, you have to, it just costs a lot of money. So, but the benefits are building a relationship with Anna Wintour. Yes. Anna Wintour is an incredibly loyal person. If Scott Sternberg emails her tomorrow and says, Anna, I need help on something. He was in the Vogue Fashion Fund in 2008 or something. She responds to him. That is why to do it, to build a relationship with Anna Wintour and all the other people who are in there. I think you have to think of it like Y Combinator or Tech Incubator.

46:33And you're exactly right. The restaurants thing is exactly it. Most brands do not last. I think the group this season is really strong. There are a lot of people who I admire. There were a couple years where I was like, I don't know any of these designers and don't care. And sometimes I think they should do it every other season. But the main reason for the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund is to raise money for the CFDA and to get advertising for Vogue. And that is why they do it. They use these young, cool designers to beef up the endowment. Is it altruistic? Do they want to help people? Absolutely. But this is the function of it, is that there's advertising connected, all of that stuff.

47:16So I think if you go into it thinking, I'm going to make connections, and it's like going, people are always like, I didn't go to journalism school. Why do you go to get a master's in journalism? The reason you go to get a master's in journalism is to make connections. And that's why you do the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund. To me, the LVMH prize is the one that I'm like 100 % you do that. You go, you meet all those people. You don't have to make a new collection. You don't have to, you get in the LVMH. You have Delphine Arnaud's ear. I think it's a for sure. But yeah, we can't expect it to be the be all end all and that it's going to mint these designers forever because it just doesn't exist.

48:02If you read WWD from 1990 and you look at all the brands, you're not going to know any of those names. It's just the way the world works. Okay, let's skip over the Chanel question for a minute. I know you like Keds, referring to me, but any recommendations for non-bulky sneakers, please? Slash, this was the second one, but it's connected. The return of common projects is inevitable, right? So maybe I'll take the first part and then you can add and talk about common projects. But I would say, I don't know. For me, Keds work. I have the lace-up Ked, like the traditional, and then I also have the slide.

48:40And I wear, I have a bunch of pairs that I cycle in and out. For me, it's the only one. I've tried Vans. I look lame in them. I don't like like low profile Pumas and all that stuff. That's not right for me. it's like a little too trendy. But I would say that like there are some people like Supergas. I think it's more about like what's the silhouette that you try to do. And for me, it always goes back to Keds. I tried that Japanese brand that's sort of like a traditional 1950s sneaker. Moon Star. It starts with an A, like Isaka or something like that. Okay. they um office in general used to sell them it's not right for me like i just think if you want something that's basically the ballet flat but a sneaker kids are are the best i was a huge common projects person like i wore them all the time until it started to feel like creepy but i'm curious what you think on the men's side of of what the like good low profile sneakers are and if you do think common projects are are going to come back soon yeah i'm i'm contrary to you i i think the the vans otw on the vibram sole the that's like 140 bucks now like that authentic i think is a great shoe um that it's like a little sturdier a little better made um but like again the shape is a little less flimsy because of the sole and and and the the toe shape the last of it uh i think that that's like like i also think that we're having this conversation in part because like designer sneakers if i can just make this point are getting way way way too expensive and it's like you know the the fact that a minimum price is more than a thousand dollars it's like obviously people are retreating to just like what is the the basic what is like the foundation that is then being riffed on by these designer labels um so that's where where I would point to.

50:43I mean, I think that obviously the Common Project's coming back, quote unquote, which I don't buy quite yet, is that conversation is happening around Adidas making the Stan Smith happen again. Like when I was in Paris for men's, massive, massive Stan Smith billboard on the opera. Like, you know, Stan Smith was at the Willie Javaria show. Like, I think they are making, he said to me, they're making a big push with this shoe again. Like, I think you know they are they're going to try to make that happen um and i think ultimately that shoe is the mass version of what the common projects is kind of and that plain white shoe i think is going to make some kind of return do i think it necessarily needs to be remarked upon no i think that it's it's yet another example of the winnowing down the dilution of our tastes and the fact that what is the most mainstream palatable thing is just going to prevail people are going to want a safe bet.

51:42I think we need to move the other direction and things have to start getting weirder again because otherwise we're just going to be repeating these cycles over and over again. I don't have a deep thought. I don't want to remark upon common projects. I know they already have hit Silicon Valley. I see those photos. Sure. If that's where people want to spend their money, sure. But that shoe doesn't do anything anymore. Yeah. I think one thing that this reminded me of that is another question is about the Reeboks and the Celine Reeboks in particular and what we think about that but um yeah like I also wear a vintage Reebok a lot but that is I don't wear that it's interesting like I wear that in LA all the time but I don't know if I would wear that in Paris or New York like it's it's an LA sneaker for me and I wear it with Levi's or whatever but like it feels um but I wonder with the Reebok and I do think the Celine Reebok the interesting thing about that collaboration to me is abg this licensing firm owns owns Reebok now and it's like very um illustrate illustrative of what is that where illustrative illustrate whatever it does it illustrates like the way the world we're in right now where a licensing firm is collaborating with an lvmh brand but um i'm interested like i would i buy the selene Reeboks probably not but I think they're cool and that's the first like I've never been a a designer sneaker person I just am not like it's not other than the row uh uh LA gears I think I've never owned a pair of designer sneakers but um and but I would do like I bought the orally new balance collaboration but I returned them because they just didn't fit me right um I would do a cloud I will do a collaboration sometimes um but yeah i don't know what do you think about those saline do you think those saline reeboks are going back and like taking us towards a weirder shoe no that's that that's that's like a basic shoe like i think you know i i i yearn a little bit for the this is such a specific reference but like i yearn for like the chris van asch dior era of sneaker and like the the kind of pierre hardy era like i i you know luke's the store in new york he just posted some like crazy 2000 shoes like i and and i was like oh i missed that those kind of off that like moment of like really intense designer sneakers like i i a lot of paneling a lot of mesh a lot of height to them i miss like the the raf oswego like i think that's a shoe that i wish adidas would reissue i i i think people need to challenge more and i think challenging more than affirming our taste is a good thing right now and i'm tired of our taste being affirmed and and the celine shoes are the one thing from the michael rider tenure that i'm just i can't get behind the the brand shoes generally are too dainty for me they're they're just there's not enough to them And the Reebok, I just that has no nostalgic anchor for me personally.

54:49So I don't I'm not interested in that. It's interesting. They're too dainty for you. I guess that I could see that because you like those big, like bulbous shoes. No, but I've been converted. I'm wearing the Jill Sonder, unfortunately named shoe. And I really like these. They're really they look really good. I'm glad you wore them. And we didn't get to talk about them. We were going to talk about them on the L.A. show, but we forgot because you bought them in L.A. But this is a great segue to a question we got that like, I feel like we probably talked about this a million times. But let's reiterate.

55:27Why have they priced Jill Sanders so high? You can't tell me the pricing strategy is working. So let's talk about your experience and I'll talk about my experience. And then we can talk generally about what we think about the pricing strategy. But you bought you bought the it's sort of like a take on a wallaby. It's very nice. They did it in suede for for fall, I think. But you bought it in black leather when you're in L.A. What was your experience and how are you feeling about it? I bought it at H. Lorenzo. They were very nice. I will say I paid full price. They I bought them. I'm fine to say like a great experience, great shopping experience.

56:06totally a shopping experience where the sales guy was so nice that i like kind of blacked out and probably shouldn't have bought them and just thought okay i'll buy them like this guy's being nice i'm not even going to try to like discount shop online or anything like that for some reason shoes remain the place in like the designer world where i feel fine paying for that like even i agree even though that can backfire so hard because the quality of designer shoes can sometimes be terrible. Like I have had shoes from certain brands that just have not lasted. And I've been shocked by that. I mean, this is now going back 10 years, but I bought a pair of Gucci loafers at one point and they like snagged, like the side stitching came off like almost immediately.

56:47And I just remember thinking like, why did I do that? I bought these from the store, but shoes remain the place where I can kind of convince myself more than a jacket or a sweater because cost per wear. I just think, okay, it's more worth it. I remain, I am in total agreement with whoever asked this question. Like I don't understand why Jill is priced this way. I have always thought that OTB should have swam the other direction and found the middle ground a little bit more with their brands because their brands I think have Jill, Margiela, Marnie. I think these brands could do well at a at 60 70 percent of what they're priced at right now totally yes and and and i'm confused because i'm just waiting for someone to try to hit that middle again that gone that disappeared that elusive contemporary market like someone is gonna swim back in there you can see a brand like our legacy swimming up toward there and i i think that that's smart but i think it would be smarter not smarter i think that it would also be smart if a brand that has name recognition that has purchased with young people that has buzz right now if they would land at a price point that wasn't exclusionary so exclusionary i think it would behoove them incredibly i a hundred percent agree and i find it because it they are all brands that younger people like and i i don't know if the pricing has to do with the like idea that a lot of it's going to end up in the off price market.

58:19And so they need to price it higher to start. I don't know. I've never talked to an executive there about why they price things like that. I think, look, it needs to change. If you look at Phoebe Philo's pricing, of course there's stuff that's really expensive. But a great example is she did this like white canvas tote and it's 650 bucks or 650 euros or whatever. Totem did a similar one. and which is the pricing that I think Jill Sanders should actually be in around the Totem pricing, did a similar one. It was more expensive than the Phoebe Philo one. Obviously, if you care about design and all this stuff, you're going to buy the Phoebe Philo one.

59:03Totem is killing it because their pricing is so right. They hit it exactly right, even though to me that seems too expensive. There are people who just buy the whole collection of Totem. And I think, and we might have talked about this at the beginning of this Jill journey, but like if it was priced more similarly to Totem or what Phoebe Philo is doing, which is like some stuff is really affordable or, you know, relatively affordable and some stuff is crazy expensive I just think it would mean more people like us would be buying more of it like I would have bought a couple dress like I don't I I really like Simone's clothes and I the stuff I own from Bali is mostly clothes not I have one pair of shoes I had two pairs I sold a pair.

59:57But like, I would buy that I would buy like a dress or two or a skirt every season if it was like, just the the psychology of the pricing is off. I don't know what it is. But there's just something about it that I'm like, that just doesn't make sense to me. From a pricing perspective, like why did they price this dress at$2 ,600 when if they had priced it at 1800, and then it went on sale then it's like 1100 or whatever um and shoes wise i think you're right like unfortunately the the sort of standard now for women's shoes is like if it's a boot especially like 1300 bucks like like but the thing is a lot of the phoebe filo shoes like i got the sports sandal and they're 1400 in America, but I paid 900 euro for them in France.

1:00:52And so like, that's the other thing, the pricing is so off. But yeah, I think I don't know why they're doing it that way. I think I don't know that I'm sure that and maybe if OTB becomes a public company, they'll talk more about their pricing architecture. But I think you're totally right. All three of their designers right now are people who like insiders want to wear their clothes. Yeah. And so you have to like Eva Chen at the second Simone show, she had like gone to the store. I think she had actually bought stuff. She's going to be so annoyed, but she had like a whole look on like she wants to wear it.

1:01:35These are brands like Becky loves the new Marnie. She's really into it. Like everyone loves Meryl. Everyone loves Glenn. Like people want to wear this stuff and they want to buy it. Of course, they're going to ask for a discount, but like if they're, if they're editors, but, but I think, I think it's tricky and there is just a huge opportunity in. Basically, entry designer, which is still like a designer proposition, but just a little bit more palatable from a pricing perspective. Because it is getting like so many of the questions that we're not going to get to on here. We're about like everything's so expensive, everything's so expensive.

1:02:15If people are saying that, figure it out and just like price it so that you maybe your margins a little smaller, but you sell way more. I mean, that's retail 101. Like if you want to sell more, you got to price it a little better and take a little hit on your margin. But then you make more in the end anyway. And so I hope they figure it out because all I love all of those designers and I want people to be wearing their clothes and it to be like in the mix the way Phoebe is or our legacy or, you know, or just all the vintage that you're buying and that I'm buying, you know. And to be clear, we're talking about pricing, like the way that I think we're both thinking about and talking about it is like this thing that's set by OTB and set by these brands.

1:03:01And, you know, they're having these conversations about where they quote unquote should be. If I'd love to, you know, if you're at one of these brands and you want to talk me through, like, no, actually it's because of the cost of materials and because of production, because I'm sure that those are facets with it. But I do think part of it is that it's where they're setting it. But I do just want to know, like obviously costs have gone up and use the term like right pricing. And I think right is very relative right now in this moment where everything is expensive. And I think that that's kind of the angst that people are feeling when they look at something like Jill, where they're like, well, this doesn't feel right for where I think this brand should be positioned.

1:03:35And I just, I would love to hear from the brand about kind of that positioning. If you're out there, let me know. Yeah. I mean, I talked with an executive there about it really early and they were like, we want it to be competing against the role. And I was like, okay, I understand that. Like you want that customer. But that doesn't mean that the pricing should be the same. Like the row is too expensive. Like I just did a whole article about how everybody's like bristling against it. Like you want it to be the same price as Totem so people who are design conscious or people who aren't, but just like know that's where you wanna be.

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1:07:04This is a fun one. Share your creative flow routine. How do you write something? Mine is very easy, so I'll tell you after. But what's your process of writing a piece? Well, this has changed recently because in the past few months, I've been doing this newsletter. The Fashions, please go subscribe at the New York Times.com if you're not already subscribed. And that has to go every Tuesday and Friday. And so I just, on Monday, I manically write it and block off most of my day. And I have going in the background all the time, like, you know, a list of things I've read and things I've seen, like other kind of bits and bobs for the newsletter.

1:07:50And so that's, you know, I'm pulling from that or I'm talking with people about, you know, what they're watching, what they're reading, what they're chattering about kind of in the fashion world. And then typically that runs on Tuesday. And then then I start writing the next one and kind of think through what the next one's going to be. And that one kind of comes together a little more piecemeal almost where I'm kind of just writing strains of it as Tuesday into Wednesday. And then on Thursday, I kind of write the whole thing. And then that runs on Friday. And then I start over. But when I'm working on features, it's a little over the place.

1:08:29Like I tend to do a big interview. And then I like to turn it around really quickly when the interview is like fresh in my brain. um so i will i try to write it like that the next day typically and then i'll get 80 done and then just call the secondary and then that's done like the charlotte profile was obviously different but i i for the most part once i'd seen orly and vuitton then i wrote that profile really quickly after that and then i just was like trying to find secondaries for that and then that that was it and uh yeah but i i mean it's very very different when i'm at fashion week where i'm just writing on on my laptop in the car the whole time but yeah but for the most part that's my flow yeah i think with profile writing which i don't obviously don't really do anymore but like the quicker you can do it after you for me the quicker i did it after doing the interview the easier it was because then you like start you like you get in your own head whereas if you're you're really clear when you're talking to the person like the the story just presents itself and if you do it right after that it's much easier whereas if you wait a few weeks or whatever then it for me would get laborious um yeah my process is with with puck is is a little different than it was with bof but generally i am similar and this was why writing a book was so hard for me because i am extremely deadline oriented.

1:10:00So like, I need a deadline. Or like, I had to have our book editor, I was like, you have to give me a deadline, even if it's fake, because I'm never going to do this. And I'm not a huge procrastinator, but every writer is to an extent. I usually give myself a time period to write an article or the newsletter or whatever. And I prefer to write in the mornings. I listen to the same song over and over and over again while I'm writing. It's sometimes the newsletter, like on Sunday, it was a little harder for me to write. The more, like if I have the perfect amount of reporting, I can write the whole newsletter in like two hours, maybe less.

1:10:44But if I have too much reporting or too little reporting, then it can take me seven hours or whatever. Like Sunday was hard because I didn't have as much reporting and it was more opinion. And so I kept procrastinating and doing other stuff. But I would say like my creative process is if I'm doing a bigger article that like is like a 5 ,000 word article or whatever, I always write an outline. And I would say generally, even if I'm just writing a 700 word column, I tend to do that. If I'm especially if I'm feeling stuck in terms of how to structure it or in terms of just like being nervous about it, Because sometimes you're nervous about the thing you're about to write.

1:11:26Totally. Doing an outline really helps with that. But I would say my biggest thing is I act like it's breaking news. And so I put on a song. I have three. The songs that I've been using for the last few years are Adele. What is Water Under the Bridge? Sure. Okay. um pretty much the only Adele song I know um it is one of them the dark don't hide it but like not the version of the one the version with Kevin Morby and Katie Crutchfield or um there's a Kevin Morby song that I listen to over and over again and so these are songs that like I really really love, but that I don't have to sing along to.

1:12:18And I also don't, they're just so in it that I don't, I'm not thinking about it. Like I need words, but I don't want something that I'm going to sing along to. So like, it's better for me than classical music. And I just have that on, on rotate, like the entire time I'm writing. And that is only when I'm writing like a whole newsletter. If I'm doing an item or something, I can listen to any music. But I think the biggest things for me are I write an outline to make it go faster and just to get my thoughts in order and then I give myself a deadline no matter what and then I listen to the same song over and over and over again and that is that is the only way I get through it but I think for me people are always like I can't believe you do all this stuff it's like I'd much rather have way more way too much stuff to do than to have like one thing that I'm working on I don't find that luxurious I find it incredibly stressful.

1:13:16Like when I took three months off between BOF and Puck to finish the book, like it was, I was in hell the entire time. Like I was just like, I don't, I, and, and Robin Gavon gave me really great advice about book writing. She was like, just write it like you're writing a series of news articles. And that is as a news reporter, that's how you get through it. I did not do that and if I ever write a book again that is how I'll manage it but um but yeah it's it's writing is hard man yeah yeah I mean I just am constantly telling myself like get it out the door like it doesn't matter like it's fine like I'm like I think you know yeah perfection is like the devil to me like I like I just don't care about that I agree it's like yeah you you can't you cannot care about perfection as a news reporter like you just and also really any any reporter.

1:14:09I think also anyone who's interested in writing is listening to this. I don't know if there are people who still are. Patrick Radden Keefe has been giving a lot of advice on social media, and I've been taking it personally. Just hearing about how he manages his writing, I think he's obviously the best of the best in the world right now. And so if you can take advice from him, he should write a book about writing. Like, I think it would do really well. Anyway. Okay, this is a fun one. Whose Connecticut house is Luca Distanio staying at? And do you ever think he'll be a creative director of a brand?

1:14:49So Luca Distanio is a designer at Prada. He has 29 ,000 followers on Instagram. He does say he's a designer at Prada. He's a bit of a Instagram vibes influencer. He has incredibly good taste. He's very good friends with Sofia Coppola. Like they post about each other on social media, which obviously I love. He is a lovely human being. And it's funny, a lot of people have been asking me about this, like would Luca be someone who would get the Elia job or whatever? On the first point, I was able to do some reporting on the Connecticut house he's staying at, if you've been following him on social media, because he and his husband are in America on vacation right now, and they went to Connecticut, which is, you know, I would say the best of if you're going to leave New York City, you want to go to Connecticut.

1:15:44Personally, that's how I feel. He's staying at a good friend's parents' house, Douglas Newton and Sadie Calvano. I don't know who these people are. I'm sure they are important in some, like, art world situation. But whether or not he's going to get a creative director job, I don't know. I mean, look, like the thing about Prada is once you're in there, you're family. And it's not really a place like if you think about Fabio, who worked for Prada for decades, like he was like, will he ever have a job now that he decided to leave? I don't know because like Prada is someone said to me you either in Milan you either work or Prada or you don't like it is such a giant thing that I don't know if you move on and become a creative journey like obviously Francesco Rizzo did there are examples of obviously Dario leaving but does he have the potential sure I mean he's he's worked there for a long time they obviously like his work he's done well and he has a public persona already which is definitely important for these designers even if it's that you're not on social media like Michael Ryder and there's a hashtag you have to have some sort of intention with it so I think there's a chance he could get a gig at some point but I also think he probably really loves working for Mutra Prada and he seems to really enjoy his life whatever is his plan.

1:17:22What do you think? Great points, Lauren. I have nothing else to add on this one. Yeah, I think, you know, we never know. They're always looking for names, these headhunters and these companies, and sure, anything's possible. Yeah, look, Matu was behind the scenes for years, even though he was designing Margiela and Susie Makees famously outed him, but then he worked for, you know, he was working for Raph and Peter for many years. And now is the industry's golden child. So on to the next question. This person says, I love Mattu's vision for Chanel, but is the marketing making it ubiquitous? I think it's a fair question and I'm curious what you think.

1:18:12Are they saying ubiquitous like a negative there? Is that the - I think they're saying, is it, is it too much? Would the butt? I mean, if you're, I'm sorry, if you're a brand of that scale and you want to own the world, you have to be too much. Like, this is, this is like, this is like asking if Coca-Cola advertises too much. I think like that, like that is, you know, I think Chanel is doing what a machine like Chanel does. I think that it's, you know, I also think that it's, it's important to know, like when you have a, like a new look, a new kind of era. the brand you have to do some work to shove it down people's throats frankly if you operate at that scale of a fashion company i think you know there's something i was in london when i when i on on vacation of a couple weeks ago a few weeks ago with my parents and we were walking along bond street and past the chanel store and both my parents like gravitated toward the window just kind of looking at what was in the window and scrutinizing the jacket and kind of talking about how incredible it looked there just still.

1:19:21And I think that's how you turn people on to what a brand is doing. My parents are not Chanel consumers. They are not in that tax bracket nor that interest bracket. But I think, you know, certainly there's a certain, you want that pull. You want people to be drawn into the brand and you do that by getting in front of people's eyeballs. I think we in the fashion world, we get jaded on these brands so fast and we just think, oh, too big. I'm done. Too big. I'm done. Too big. Shoving down my throat. And we move on to the next thing. I think brands bake that in. They know that that's going to happen.

1:19:53They're conscious of that. And they're not going for just being hip with the most savvy people. They're playing a mass game when you're a brand that big. I agree. And I also think that advertising, do I love all of it personally no like do could I do without the um who's the French director that did a couple things for um the my you know Michelle Gondry could I do without that stuff sure but you know what I love are the advertising campaigns like someone who worked at Chanel for many many years said there was a you were it was very particular how you were allowed to use the logo and what it needed to look like and how it needed to be boxed in.

1:20:40And he has like taken the seas and he's like sprinkling them everywhere. I think that the photography has been gorgeous. And like, especially for a mass luxury brand, like, I think they've done a great job. And it is, it's complicated. Like, yes, is, is there, I think there are people who are nervous that it's going to go the way of Alessandro Gucci. I don't think that's going to happen. But it's something you have to be careful about. It's interesting, though. I think the consumers of it who are nervous about that kind of stuff are just buying clothes, not buying bags and shoes. And then the other consumers who are like, whatever, are buying the square toe heel or whatever.

1:21:24But yeah, I think that it needs to be almost ubiquitous like the the balance and the challenge of these mega brands is like you need to be ubiquitous and feel special you need to be something for everyone and I think Chanel is like teaching a master class in that and so is it perfect no like but it's it's near damn near perfect and and it's it's really impressive it's gonna be like something we look back on in fashion history and they teach it business school and all that stuff um i guess we could this this is a little bit of a homework question but i guess it's a good segue into this there were a bunch of questions about advice for wanting to be work in fashion when everyone says it's a bad time there was one very in particular that i'm going to answer quickly about like this person works in commercial real estate, capital markets and finance, but really loves fashion.

1:22:23I would just say, and this person was like, could I ever get into fashion? Yeah, of course. You could do whatever you want. But actually, there is like chief retail officer is a job that's like, they have trouble finding people for that. So if you wanted to get into it that way, that would be like, go in the retail. If you're already in retail, go on the retail path into fashion but the bigger question of like should i be in this industry look like should you be when i i graduated from college in 2004 and people were like journalism's dead it's been over 20 years i'm still a journalist somehow and and i own a home so like it is possible if you want to do something even if an industry is like kind of screwed up you can you can figure it out But I struggle with these questions.

1:23:14What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I never I'm not again, I loathe to be prescriptive and say, you know, do this or don't do this. I think if you have a passion for it and you want to pursue this, obviously people do make it work. I think I bristle with the statement that this is a bad time in fashion. I mean, I don't quite think this is a bad time in fashion compared to it being compared to any other industry right now. Like, I think obviously there's pockets of fashion where brands are more successful and companies are more successful and pockets where they're not. I think if you're interested in working in this world, you know, pursue it.

1:23:52I don't think it's any healthier or less healthy than any other industry right now. This is like the most wishy-washy answer ever, probably. But I think, again, I had much like you. I didn't go to J school. I had a particular path. I'm conscious that I was very lucky and very privileged in a lot of ways through that path and met a lot of the right people. And that's kind of what I always tell people is just meet a lot of people, have a lot of conversations, you know, talk with people that you think you admire their work. Talk with people that have jobs that have the contours of a job that you could see yourself having, you know, figure out how people got there and see what advice you can get.

1:24:33and you will never know where that might lead. I just think generally in life, it's never good to leave your job and flee to something else just because that's what you're passionate about. I'm a real stability believer, but yeah, I think it's obviously possible, but I think everyone's pathway is different and I don't always have the greatest advice to give because of just the path that I carved, but I always just say, send an email. send an email to someone, see if they'll talk to you. They probably will. Yeah. I'm obviously a much bigger risk taker than you. You are. Yeah. But I would say like one thing that I think you should, when you assess risk, like think about what is the risk?

1:25:20Like people are always like, aren't you nervous that you work at startups? And I'm like, no, because startups don't really have a, I want to figure out new business models for journalism. like if you don't work at the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, the two places Jacob has worked, like none of those other legacy publications have figured out good business models. So like I have worked at startups because they're trying to figure the business model out and also they tend to not have, they don't have as many layoff rounds in the beginning because they're well funded. So like in some ways working at startups has been less risky.

1:25:58Like I haven't gotten laid off. Like, you know, so that's like since I got laid off in 2009 when I worked at a legacy publication. So like that is that's what I would say is one of the things that like assess what is your level of risk. And then the other thing is you just have to do it. Like this is the thing people are always like, I want to do this. I want to do that. I'm like, the only way you can do it is do it. I remember working at Forbes when I was 22 years old or whatever and being like, how do I get people to talk to me? And just realizing the only way I was going to get people to talk to me was to pick up the phone and email people and try to get people.

1:26:37You just have to like put in work. So like if you're transitioning, I agree. I think like every industry is going through change always. And so you have to just decide if like that's the kind of crap you want to deal with. um okay one more good question and then because i think it's interesting and then we'll do a really quick quick fire because it's funny okay on running has terrible reviews is it all a scam 1.3 on trust pilot because to be honest i don't know what that means that indicates but um is it all a scam who is their customer jacob what do you think wait what is is trust pilot but isn't trust but at a ranking of their website like i don't know i don't know i'm sorry i'm not i it just the person was like but the point being that like it might be the customer service stuff it might be that the product is not good and they've had to return a lot of it like there are many reasons yeah i don't i you know that i can't speak to it from a like consumer level i can definitely speak to it from a like eyes on the ground like they're ubiquitous i mean they are they're a ubiquitous shoe.

1:27:49Like I, I think, you know, I was just reading a profile of, that we had of, of the Calci CEO and he's wearing them in the, you know, they, they are, they are a mass, um, pseudo niche. I would say at this point, like they're not Nike, they're not ideas, but they're a huge brand, but they are, but that distinction makes them feel different and um yeah i think it's really um it's it's fascinating to me that this that that that i need to look into that frankly because i see them everywhere and people i know a lot of people that sing the praises of the shoes so that that's that's interesting that they would have such a low review yeah um i would say that they are sort of you want to talk about the carving of the middle class it's like a lingering example of like an actual middle class thing or upper like it's a lot of upper middle class and upper class people too but I would say like you see them a lot in in San Diego or in Santa Monica where like people with money they were first adopted by people with money and now it's sort of like pretty much anyone who wants a casual shoe I would say I did I really don't like the way they look.

1:29:06I'm not saying this as a judgment. It's a personal taste thing. Like, I think they're interesting, but I just, they're not for me personally, but I did try them for running because I am extremely sick of these bulky, puffy shoes. Like, I understand they're better for your joints, but I hate the way they feel. I hate the way they look. And I'm always looking for like a low profile runner that's okay for running. I'm not going to go barefoot or wear those barefoot shoes but like I just want something that doesn't feel as like bouncy and I tried the on runnings and I didn't like them I I was like these are weird I can't wear them so I think that they are they're very like a personal thing and and if they if they are seeing a lot of returns or just like people not liking them that's their public company they're gonna have to figure that out but i think you're right that they are the prime example of a brand like taking market share from nike and adidas when nike and adidas were fumbling i mean that's definitely something to look into i'm i'm that that honestly catches me a little off guard yeah it's interesting okay advice okay quick fire round advice for an alternative to to down jackets because they smell when when wet okay much love to the person who said this do you have do you have an answer i i i want to know where this person lives that this is the pressing question for them in august like is this person in australia and they're just like getting rained on every day and and smelling bad in their down jacket um uh i would say i mean the answer to that is that you need a down jacket that is that is Gore-Tex you need a Gore-Tex line down jacket then you probably need to look at Arc'teryx or Patagonia or something that has a three-in-one system or you you or but or a wool coat I mean I I suppose but if you want the warmth of down you and you you're gonna need something that has a Gore-Tex shell on it or or wear a Gore-Tex shell over it yeah the other thing you could do is I have like down jackets that I wear in my wool coats.

1:31:20Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could do something like that. Big proponent of that. Uniqlo, cheap down. Exactly. Liner, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the perfect gift for a fashionable man? I have a good answer to this, but you answer first. Yeah, I would say it depends on their level of, like, their acumen, so to speak. I mean, I think a good sweater, like, I love receiving a good sweater. that's like, you know, and that's such a range, but like, I think a gift is where you can forgive a novelty sweater. Like if you get a novelty sweater as a gift, that's perfect. You didn't spend your money on it, but like you can wear it.

1:31:57And I think you get so many compliments on a quirked out sweater, but most men don't want to buy that. And I think that, and when I say novelty, I mean any kind of pattern, anything that deviates from like the solid of what your partner probably wears. But yeah, that's, that's, that's where, where, where I would go. you know what a good gift for a fashionable woman is diamonds

1:32:21okay anyway this gift i'm gonna suggest is for anyone but i just bought a bunch of these for people because i love them so much but you know that fashion designer giovanna flores who i think jessica iredale wrote a really great profile she wrote a great profile of her in the new york times so she has this paper company with her sister called flores and they do these spiral papers they are so gorgeous like and they're not that they're like 48 bucks you can get a bigger one i think like i just bought i'm going to a dinner party and i bought them for everybody at the dinner party because it's all people have been like really kind to me and so it's 50 bucks a person for all all the niceties these people have done for me over the years but like they have one that's all pure yellow.

1:33:07They have a cream one with red lining and they're these spiral. They're gorgeous. It's F-L-O-R-E-S. And I don't know, would you want to receive one of those? They're great. One of my desk mates has one. It's gorgeous. Yeah. Nice desk object that's functional. Yes. So I think that that would be a nice gift if you're not thinking fashion. It feels pretty unisex. They're very feminine, but like they're not feminine in a way that like someone, they don't, it doesn't feel gendered. It feels more, I don't know. Anyway, they're, they're very nice. Name a public figure whose style is underrated in your opinion.

1:33:48I wish I had a second to think about this. I was joking that it's Michael Eisner because he looked the best at Sun Valley, but it's people like that. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, I think my mind is spinning through a lot of movie directors because that's who I look to just generally. And like director's fits, I will always shout him out. Like, that's a great repository of those kind of behind the line people. Yeah. But yeah, in terms of like a real public figure, like, I don't know, man, it's hard. That's that's. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have the answer really either. But, you know, you do cover a lot of public figures in your column.

1:34:34And I think the way you approach that kind of coverage is really good. So check out Jacob's next column because it'll probably be about a public figure. Thank you. If this is running on Friday, actually, the newsletter on Friday will probably be about a little bit more on those magazine covers and some other stuff. A few behind the scenes thoughts on Charlotte and that profile. But yeah, if there's a public figure that you think is worth looking at, let me know. Like I'm very, now I'm like, I'm really trying to rack my brain on that one. But yeah. Yeah, I agree. Everyone gets exposed like immediately.

1:35:09Like everyone that's like moderately stylish, the moment they appear in public, there's like a million articles about how they're actually the best dressed person in the world. That's true. Jacob, what did you have for breakfast this morning? We forgot to ask. You haven't asked me this in a long time. I feel like it's only the Friday show and you usually do the two-day show. This question went away. I have what I always said. I had a Siggy's yogurt with almonds. Have you tried the, oh, there was one more question for you. But have you tried Sisterland or whatever yogurt? Hinterland or something like that?

1:35:46No, it's like Sister or something. It's, yeah, no, I'm not. Fritz had it this morning and I had a bite it's crazy i'm comfortable in my ciggies i think you should you should upgrade this stuff is like what is it called painterland painterland as recommended by many of my friends including amanda dobbins who had a question for you specifically she said how do i get promoted from acquaintance to friend because in in a column you mentioned her and you said an acquaintance that she was offended. I felt like it would have been too bold to call her a friend. We had had one dinner. Amanda, text me anytime.

1:36:27I'm happy to hear your thoughts and your household Evan Conori conundra. Oh my God. So much Evan Conori in that household. I'm always here for those. But yeah, yeah. Amanda would be happy to know that since that time when we spoke, I have now been to another movie this year. So I've now seen two movies this year in the theater. Odyssey? I did see the Odyssey yes Jacob thank you this was really fun this was wonderful if you made it this far congratulations oh there are people who did thank you for having me on Lauren the next time you speak it will be in the throes of fashion week and there will just be so much to talk about see you in September buddy see you in September Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck the show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent Special thanks to Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations Gabby Grossman.

1:37:26An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.