Margiela in China & Celine (Dion) in Paris

33:43So what do you think though? Okay. Well, I have a question for you because you're better at reading the business TV than I am. I have two brands that have been like bandied about for sale. People think LVMH is trying to sell Marc Jacobs. And then people think something is happening with McQueen at Caring because they just closed their store on Bond Street. So like, what's your read on those situations? Okay, I have lots of original reporting about both of these things stuff, but I'll be fast. So Mark Jacobs, I would say right now they're not trying to sell it. They did try to sell it. And they were going to sell it to ABG, this licensing company, and it didn't work out.

34:25And they have recommitted. This is, I've report, like I've done tons of reporting on this and confirmed it like from a lot of different sources within LVMH, within Marc Jacobs, within Authentic Brands Group. They were going to sell it to them. It didn't work out for various reasons. And they have recommitted. That being said, my feeling is that like if someone comes with the right price, they will sell it. Because it just doesn't, the business itself is not the same business. And I think that they will try to do it in a way that is good for Mark because he is still making them a shit ton of money every single year through like the work he did at Louis Vuitton is still paying dividends to them.

35:06And also the Marc Jacobs brand. And I mean, he without him, LVMH would not be what it is. So I do think, look, they're not going to they're not going to keep it out of loyalty, but I think they'll they'll sell it in a proper way to make it good for him. but that said i don't think that's happening right now it it could happen in the next few years but queen they definitely have done a reorganization and like a fixing of the business for now the caring people have said when it's not for sale everything is for sale and what the new caring ceo has said is like we're going to be constantly re-evaluating these businesses and if something makes sense there were offers or an offer to buy mcqueen and it was rejected because it wasn't enough money i personally think they should have sold to those people i don't want to get into that right here because i actually don't remember if i reported it or not and i don't want to have to ask for comment but i think the point being that like both of these things are not for sale but everything is for sale and i think with mcqueen in particular, Luca DeMeo needs to make that business run smoothly, like the caring group run well, and he needs to make shareholders happy, and he wants to build businesses for the future.

36:34It's going to be easier to do when you're over a billion dollars a year, and you have like McQueen never, it never got past probably 400 million. Balenciaga got past a billion. Like the other ones moved. McQueen was never able to. And I think, and at one point the shoe was, the sneaker was 80 % of the business, which happens with a lot of these companies. So I think eventually it will sell, but that's a long way to say right now, neither of those things have sold. whether or not they will in the next couple years I think there's a big chance for both of them to me the value proposition of Dario Vitale other than he's a great designer is that he has connected with young people young consumers in a way that I have not seen like a new creative director, maybe since Peter Moulier came out with the ballet flats at Alaya.

37:37The amount of young millennials, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, who were obsessed with his Versace show. I just listened to the Harper's Bazaar podcast with Leia and Lynette, and Benny Skinner is on talking about how he blew a ton of money at Versace, on Dario's Versace, because he just was like, The fit is great. The silhouette is great. It has this, it is not really nostalgic, but it nods to an energy of the 80s without looking dated. And so, you know, if I were a CEO who had a brand that needed to genuinely connect with millennials, or with Gen Z, I would be like, he would be the number one name on my list.

38:27because it's just like I've never seen sort of like a groundswell of obsession. And what I really liked about what he did at Versace, Versace, sorry, that's how I'm supposed to pronounce it. Really? Versace? I guess. Versace. Not Versace? Versace. I really hope they invite Elizabeth whatever to a Versace show in the way that they invited Alicia Silverstone. it'd be really funny to alaya i agree anyway back to versus versus he made a whole world like there were interesting artists the way that show was presented they had like great show notes it just felt really alive they were doing these digital projects that were like re-curations of the archive by like cool online archivists and so i think there's a lot of potential there.

39:23I had a sort of crackpot idea that I need you to tell me why it's not viable as a business. But if I had money, I would buy the face and I would relaunch it as a sort of like fashion brand slash print project. You know, it's like so many of these fashion brands have these magazines like Dior magazine, Hueve magazine, and they're doing great storytelling, but it's not accessible for people because you have to like go to the store and get this object and i'm like maybe like the face runway show is not a cool idea to people but i think if you bought that brand let dario vitale shop around the archives make cool clothes have like maybe it's not a fashion show it's a presentation but then also this like amazing magazine and he sounds cool to me.

40:18It's not a terrible idea. Like, look, O32C. I don't know how that, that don't go after me, Yorg. Is that his name? Yeah, I love Yorg. Don't go after me. He's always messaging me about how he doesn't subscribe. So it's fine that I can't remember his name. He, I mean, I don't know how that business is doing right now, but for a while it was doing really well. so I think that that is actually an interesting idea and I do think someone should buy the face it's it's a I guess it's over and it's fine and let's just move on but um it's too bad that it because it I think the face id and what's the other one dazed dazed they're they're very important and and the way that magazine culture and and journalism is in the UK they still can be viable like you could still have a business base there or in France or or Germany or whatever like it's still it's changing now but um but I think I don't I think that's an interesting idea and and it could be interesting for you know one of the bigger fashion groups to buy it because the thing is they and make it like a little experiment um yeah because they're the the thing that's hard is the production and the distribution and all that like i mean it's not it's easy it's hard to make a magazine but i just mean from a projection perspective the closer the thing that's challenging and if you have all that stuff it's it's interesting So many fashion brands are trying to become media outlets.

42:05And I think it would be an interesting experiment to go the other way. Start with a media outlet and turn it into a fashion brand. I love this concept, Steph. This is brilliant. Again. Great. If anyone wants to make this happen, please contact me. Yeah. Steph is not available, but she's available for this. I'm not available, but I'd love to consult or just have a convo. Yes.

42:34Good sleep is everything. That's why Oli's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-theanine for both kiddos and grownups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Oli's sleep solutions for the whole family at Oli.com. That's O-L-L-Y dot com.

43:15So one media company that has done this sort of is, well, that has pivoted to figure out a new business model is the company that owns BDG, Bustle Digital Group, not the denim from Urban Outfitters. They own Nylon and they do a lot of live events and things. Our friend Lauren is the editor there. Question for you. And I'm sure they're doing something big at Coachella. You texted me this morning. You said, why don't we talk about Coachella? And I was like, Coachella's happening? It's not just because I'm in Paris. I would barely know if I was in L.A. I would only know because I could go to some like silly wine bar in Silver Lake and it wouldn't be overrun on a Friday night at 8 p.m.

44:06But what's going on at Coachella? What's the vibe this year? So I think Coachella sort of hit a slump in the 2020s, not only because of the pandemic, but it became sort of a parody of itself. Like there was all of this festival fashion and like Vanessa Hudgens of it all. I think I'm making a prediction. This is going to come out on the 7th. Coachella starts on the 10th. I think what artists wear on stage at Coachella is going to become incredibly important to fashion. Both artists that have their own brands, Bieber is headlining. That's a huge moment for Rode and also a huge moment for his brand, but also for luxury brands and what artists they're dressing.

44:58I did like a little post-it math and it's like, okay, Dior has at least three ambassadors, Ethel Kane, Little Sims, and the XX. People I've seen at Dior shows performing. And then there's like Sombra and Leve who are both Valentino people. There's Clips who are famously at the Vuitton show and Ward Vuitton at the Grammys. Then there's people like Pink Panthers, FK Twigs, Addison Rae who just have like great style. I really think Coachella is the new Salone. Brands, you should be paying attention to these artists. They look great. They have truly insane fandoms. And it's just becoming a great moment for fashion brands to be there.

45:44And I think the heat is what's happening on stage and less like what people are wearing. Like I think festival fashion is kind of over and it's more like last year Addison Rae wore Chloe to one of hers. She like came out with Lana Del Rey maybe. I thought that was like a great moment for Chloe to kind of like reclaim boho in one of the most boho scenarios on earth. Yeah, that's a great point. And it does feel like musicians have generally kind of upped their game on stage. It probably started with Rihanna, but Beyonce and Shiona, all the tours that they've done. But then like Mel just did the Lily Allen tour.

46:32and our friend Carolyn Faux is doing Somber. She just did his tour and I'm sure, and that's a really great point. Like it's a great, everybody's watching them and it's sort of in between red carpet season. And so it's an opportunity and also to do more original stuff and more adventurous stuff because usually musicians are a little more creative and care about their clothes where not all celebrities do. I'm sorry to tell people, not all actors. That's really interesting. I love this idea. Gives brands like an opportunity to own the moment in the way that you really can't at Fashion Week. They invite all these people, but it's like in one day at Fashion Week, you can see 50 A-list celebrities and it's sort of like yeah just washes over you and you don't really pay attention to who is where or who or what um and kind of maybe i'm red carpet fatigued but i sort of feel the same way about red carpets it's like we're just running through the credits everyone's an ambassador it doesn't feel that exciting to me sorry to be a hater but then you know i saw twigs at madison Square Garden a couple of weeks ago.

47:55And I was just like electrified by the production, her like physicality, her athleticism, the people dancing in the audience. I just thought like, this feels like a area that fashion should really be communing with more. I mean, brands have always dressed musicians, but I think there's a real opportunity to own it and own a moment with an artist. And, you know, more people than ever are paying attention to Coachella and music festivals and younger people. So if I was a betting man, I would say there's probably going to be some big gags at Coachella this weekend or next weekend. I'll be watching and thankful that I don't actually have to be there.

48:40On the other hand, I am going to Salone. Have you been before? I've never been. I think it could be, I'd love to go, but yeah, I've never been. I'm a little bit stressed out about it. We're doing a dinner there, which is a reason to, like, if we weren't doing the dinner, I would not go. Well, that's not actually true. I mean, everyone is going to be there. There's so many fashion brands doing things there. It's crazy. Like, I have stuff every single day that is, but it's interesting. I was talking we had friends over last night one of them is going just to be around and he I was like it's just different from fashion week because there's one fashion show you really have to be invited to it and that happens during an hour and then you're done but this is like three to seven and there's like 17 things and he was like well there's no movement it's just a chair But I'm very stressed out by like, what do I actually need to go to?

49:40Who is going to be my buddy during like, it's just all these things of my, my friend Kelsey Keith, who works at Miller Knoll is I'm, I'm like gonna attach to her for part of it. Like I just, I don't. And also the fact that like my Airbnb was way more expensive for Salone than it is during fashion week. it was still very reasonable but like and I it's a really great Airbnb no one's ever taking it from me but um I was like is it gonna be very busy am I gonna you know how hard it is to get around Milan anyway I'm like yeah and I take the train so at least I have that and I guess there won't be stuff in like weird it'll all be in the center of the city so you can walk most of the places But I don't know.

50:29I'm very excited. It'll be very fun, but I'm also a little stressed out about it. I'm excited to read your newsletters from Salone because it has become like a fashion week in and of itself. Like every brand has an activation. Yeah, I hope I get some fun gossip, like some fun things that come out of it. Steph, I wanted to ask you two more quick things. We can do like rapid fire. Okay, great. One is about the campaigns this season, because I feel like you probably have some ideas. I did like a ranking of my top favorite campaigns. I am really obsessed with this idea of like, how has our exposure to like instant gratification changed image making?

51:17And as someone who's putting together a magazine, I'm sure you think about this all the time. but um i see it a lot in and also the celebrity of it all like almost every campaign has celebrities in it it used to not be every campaign it's just all changed so much i was curious if there were any campaigns that really struck you this season as being beautiful or innovative and and why mm-hmm i i really liked two campaigns that feel on opposite ends of the spectrum i thought it was very smart of chanel to recruit michelle gondry and kylie minogue to remake that kylie minogue video with margot robbie i think like if you have a lot of money to make an ad campaign a great way to spend it is to invest in a real artist and that's what that felt like to me and obviously there's a lot of nostalgia there that for me maybe feels like a little bit uncool to like redo something from the past but I thought it was done so well and again if I had all the money in the world like I'd be giving it to Michel Gondry for sure um and then on the other end of the spectrum, I really, really, really insanely loved the Prada ads by Jordan Wolfson with the fake bird, AI bird.

52:47I'm not totally sure if it was real or fake or if people were in it or not. I like that the dialogue was so bizarre and inexplicable. I like that it was provocative and inexplicable and forward thinking. You know, like it's really easy to make something nice that is a remake of something in the 2000s or the 90s or the 80s. And very few brands are trying to make something that's not just for 2026, but that's for 2030. And this felt like a great, strange execution. I think, you know, Prada loves to be provocative. I was very glad to see that they were taking this ad campaign, which had lots of famous people in it, and getting them all to kind of participate in this weird art project.

53:36So I loved that. And I thought it really like raised the bar for what an ad could be or should be. I agree. I thought it was awesome. My top 10 kept changing. And I sent two editors in chiefs the list and I was like, I don't sound stupid saying these. But I agree. I think it was really interesting and funny and weird and creepy and uncomfortable and everything you want out of Prada and felt like also expose the clothes in the right way. Like the clothes were part of the campaign, which is important to me. And I like the Chanel campaign. It was not on my top 10. I think the interesting thing about Mattu is like, I was talking about this with friends the other night, about the soundtracks of his shows, which seem to be geared towards women between the ages of 35 and 45.

54:35It's funny. It's not cool. And this is the thing. He's not cool. he's very cute and he's his clothes are amazing and I love them but it's not cool and so that and that's fine but he understands that and that's why the client who's been there for 50 years is buying it and 25 year old girls who never thought they would buy Chanel is buying are buying some part of it like I would personally like I don't think the shoes and bags will ever be for me but I got this jacket that ever you know everybody who's asking me which jacket like I've literally posted 15 photos of me in this jacket. If you can't figure it out, I'm sorry.

55:11I'm not sending you the link to the jacket. But the point being that like, I do think it, I think it's really well done the way everything he's just doing what he thinks is right. And it is. But I agree on the product campaign. I think I had it at number four. And maybe if I went back, I would have put it further up. But I think the reason I did, I didn't because Prada is always good. And I think, And so it's kind of, I didn't give it as much weight, but I think you're right. And I also think I was talking to someone last week who's worked a lot with talent agencies. And we were talking about the fact that like, there will still like, if you're a talent agency right now, why don't you make sure that you have a bunch of great creative directors on your roster?

55:58And like the definition of what a creative director is is changing too, but you're always going to need a creative director and artists with AI because you need someone to direct the AI or at least for the next 30 years or hopefully. but I think that's like it's just an example of like not being afraid of the future and using it to show like to take things to another level because the you're right the problem is people are too obsessed with the past and if you don't move forward then it doesn't feel good it starts to feel it feels sad and so I think I think both of those I love the way you you framed them and And they both are so valid in the market right now, too.

56:45I mean, when you think about it, those are really the two brands that fashion, big brands of fashion consumers are really into right now. And that's interesting that you chose them for the campaigns, too. Wait, I have a quick question for you. Yeah. Because you mentioned the soundtrack that the Chanel shows. And I think there was the Dawson's Creek song, Rhythm is a Dancer, Poker Face by Lady Gaga. what like 2000s or 90s song do you want to hear at the next chanel show or like what artist do you think he should collab with he also did torn by natalie ambruglia and then at couture it was um oasis i think wonderwall but also the verve at bittersweet symphony i think i did not like the Lady Gaga from the last show.

57:36I'm not a Lady Gaga person. I'm hanging up. Well, this is my final question about a performer who I will not be able to go to the show. But I just never cared about Lady Gaga. I was too, like, she got popular in 2008, 2009. I was like, I was too into Wilco. You know. I was like trying to get a boyfriend. You think Jeff Tweedy should come to the next Chanel show? No, please. I'm over that. I already had a boyfriend actually by 2008, but I was trying to impress my boyfriend. So it's not, I don't know. It's just like, I don't care about Lady Gaga. But my thing, and I've written this, I thought he was going to do Stay by Lisa Loeb.

58:22Okay, I was going to say Lisa Loeb. I need a Lisa Loeb comeback. I just feel like I feel like he needs to do it for me. Yes. If he puts it, if he puts in the show, I'll never write anything negative about Chanel ever again. That's not true. But but but I do feel like I really the thing that he did the last show was that he put like this music from Pride and Prejudice, the Keira Knightley version. And that may be I'm I think he's two years younger than me. I'm more of a 1996 Pride and Prejudice of course of course yeah and Jennifer L L E or L like that I don't care about the Karen Knightley Pride and Prejudice guys I'm sorry like it's not as good as the Colin Firth one I don't and also the Colin Firth one is like five episodes it's so much more fun to watch the whole thing but I'm very excited for the Sense and Sensibility that's coming out soon and then also there I think there's a new Pride and Prejudice also but I think like I like that he and Becky Malinsky texted me during the show and was like oh my god this is the music from the Pride and Prejudice from I think she's like a year younger than me and I was like okay this is really um the cutoff but um I like when he's like getting to this like romantic woman of our time because you're a little bit you're much younger than me but I feel like you're you were you were absorbing culture as an older person when you were younger who what would you want well lisa lobe was pretty high on my list i would also like maybe some pj harvey um obviously whole i mean courtney love get to the chanel show please yes please I would really do it for me and then I think there's a lot of 90s club music that I would love to hear like Ace of Bass put that on the soundtrack I agree with Ace of Bass I would be very into I would also be into some Amy Mann I think unfortunately he can't do Kate Bush because it's just gotten too much with like the weathering heights of it all but like I would love I would love some Magnolia soundtrack, Amy Mann.

1:00:43You know what he is never going to do, but I do love is the Indigo Girls. Oh, yes. Or Sarah McLachlan. That would be good. I'm like, now let's just go through Lilith Fair. No, Sarah McLachlan, too sad. It's just like, I can't not see the ASPCA ad, you know, like the sad dogs. What about Jewel, though? That would be Oh, Jewel, of course. I think that's, I think that's, maybe he, maybe there was some Jewel on one of the soundtracks. I don't know. I think there's, there needs to be some Jewel. I think like, who else was at the, my first Lilith Fair was pretty good. It was like Missy Elliott, Sarah McLachlan and Jewel.

1:01:24Incredible. I am so tellic. It was, so I was 14. My mom was like, sure, you can go to this concert with a bunch of lesbians and gay men. Have a great time. It was very safe environment. Yeah. But that was fun. So there's one person we didn't mention who has a big Paris run coming up in the fall. I think some of the shows are during Paris Fashion Week is Celine Dion. Montreal's greatest. Montreal's greatest. Huge respect. I have huge respect for this woman. I love her style. I think she's amazing. I have zero again Becky Malinsky sorry to throw you under the bus but she was like let's go to the show and I was like no I have no desire to see Celine Dion ever I hate all of her music I like her oh I can't take it it's too this is I was probably 13 when this again coming back to me be like this is it was too um oh I really don't like it like will you go because I just feel like I feel like every person there better not be the because she's doing 10 days in September and October there's gonna be overlap at least one or two of the shows must be during fashion week Like, will you skip shows to go to Celine Dion?

1:02:52Depends on the show, but absolutely. I mean, I worked at Vogue when they did the Celine Dion couture video on the boat on the Seine. And I have a recollection of around that time, her being on Good Morning America or something. and we filmed like a social video with her and it was on my birthday and she's saying happy birthday to me oh my god i have that i need to find that recording it's somewhere on some hard drive maybe 2016 2017 but i also worked at essence for two years in montreal i lived in new york with a company's based in montreal and many of my friends from there are like you know she is god like when you go to Montreal and you pass the cathedral, they're like, that's where Celine Dion got married.

1:03:43Like, it's not like that's the cathedral. It's like, that is the venue of Celine Dion's wedding. And so I think I would love to go with all my Canadian friends from Montreal and really have like a beautiful Quebecois experience. I love that she's camp too. She like, she doesn't take herself too seriously, which I appreciate in a diva. I agree. I'm a huge fan. I just I can't I can't go to it. I went to a bunch of concerts in the last year. It was like my lip midlife crisis thing. And I'm going to balance Sebastian in June in L.A. I was supposed to go on London next week. But thank you to Caitlin Phillips for buying my four tickets off of me because I was going with.

1:04:25matthew blasey get bell and sebastian there oh my god like come on please i i fox in the snow uh i would love that i also have been getting into the shins again oh my god yes this is here's the issue do you use apple or spotify apple apple puts a lot of shins on there it's up up there like the here's the thing i would like to say to apple not interested in Big Thief I understand why people like Big Thief I know why Chris Black likes Big Thief I'm not interested and there's another band that they are serving me constantly oh Bon Iver I'm just like stop it I told you I don't want this stuff please stop but the shins I'm always like oh that's nice yeah I'll hear that yeah I do enjoy the Apple algorithm Steph I'm excited for your experience at Celine Dion and for you to write about it you'll be reading it on the id magazine sunstack october 2026 when is the next um what's the next big thing you all have going like is there a big issue coming out or you have like a big online thing like what what can you promo right now for us well i'd love to promo our current issue of id the lore issue on newsstands now with um bobby tett mactu's favorite chanel model siza an sd kid It's like, it's our third issue of ID under Tom.

1:05:53I think it's my favorite one yet. I'm obsessed with how rich we've been able to make the storytelling. Nikolai just wrote an amazing, well, she just published online her amazing research project into if Gen Z is having sex, which is hilarious. I hope everyone reads it. And we have something coming out. They are, but it's like bizarre. Ooh. There's some pretty provocative stories in there. So go to our website and read them. We have a secret project that I can't talk about coming out at the end of April. So hopefully everyone tunes in for that. Fabulous. And Stephanie, you haven't been on since you got married.

1:06:36Congratulations. Thank you. Much love to Erin. Thank you. Thank you. Famously, I was at Lauren's wedding at the Green Building in 2013. It was so fun. It was 2011, Steph. 2011. Oh, my God. It was a long time ago. Yeah, it was 15 years. Oh, my God. Congrats. Happy anniversary. Thank you so much. Well, I'm so happy for you guys. And I'm so happy you're going to be back at Fashion Week this season. We'll have to do an episode from the shows. I would love to. I'm going to do all of men's, PT, Milan, Paris. I'll have lots to say. Oh, maybe. Yeah, let's do. Maybe we can do. I might come for a little Milan I haven't decided but I will not be at PT oh you'll be there for the Sunflower Copenhagen show I'll be there for the Simone Rocha show obviously oh man that's oh I actually do want to go for that the day it was announced I emailed them and I was like see you there I'm excited we'll do I'll schedule it you should definitely come on and you could do a report from Milan because I have someone doing the Paris one, but a new special guest, a new menswear person I'm bringing into the mix.

1:07:54But let's do the Milan and Pitti. That would be awesome. But Steph, thank you for being here. You are one of the most requested guests. So I'm so happy to have you back. Oh, stop it. It's so fun to chat with you. I hope you have a gorgeous day in Paris. You too. We'll talk soon. Much love. Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations, Gabi Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.

1:08:37Every act of change begins with a neighbor. When neighbors connect through the Feeding America network, small actions ripple into lasting impact. Feeding America, led by neighbors. Give now to end hunger at feedingamerica.org.