Marty Supreme Merch and Gorpcore Mania

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Pucks Fashion and Beauty Memo memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Avery Truffleman, host of Articles of Interest. We're talking holiday shopping, Armani succession murmurs, Marty's Supreme merch, military gear, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week and chilling out. If you are stateside, it is Thanksgiving here. It's my favorite holiday. And so we're going to take things a little more slowly, but lots of news coming out of Europe and beyond. In Monday's line sheet, I have got an update on the situation at Saksith Avenue, which is facing, as all brands and retailers are, pretty much the most crucial holiday season they've seen in years.

0:56Also got some legacy media news and notes and a bit about the future of Armani's ownership, and Avery and I also get into that later. And be sure to check out Wednesday's issue where Rachel Strugeutz is kind of covering, well, she is covering, not kind of, covering the saga of the blonde salad. This woman, Chiara Faragni, I think that's right, the sort of, she was like the OG blogger influencer Rachel and I were talking about. I remember like having lunch with her in LA with her boyfriend maybe, I don't know, in 2011 or something. She might have to go to prison. If she's convicted of fraud, she's facing these charges in Italy.

1:36It's crazy times. Rachel covered influencers at the peak of blogger mania. So she is especially equipped to investigate this, and I think you'll really enjoy it. Let's go in with Avery.

1:51Avery Truffleman, welcome to Fashion People. What a dream. Lauren Sherman, thank you for having me. Did you have a nice weekend? Oh my God. I'm like, what was the weekend? What day was it? I'm still like in the throes of making, you know, podcaster to podcaster. You know how much work it can be. Well, yours takes a lot more work than mine. It comes in waves. It comes in waves. Yeah. Different kinds of podcasts. So you're still recording for this season? Well, not recording, but I don't know. Mine's the kind of podcast that has like music behind it and stuff. So I'm still like. Not just total BS all day.

2:31no no no it's just like i don't know i'm like yeah like oh crafting crafting the narrative i don't know i'd spend so much time on this stuff it takes forever it's so funny for months people have been like so is it all in the can and for months i've been like oh no like i have to go home and finish it so i'm still finishing it but well i'm enjoying it and we're gonna get more into it later. I wanted to talk to you up top about a couple little news items. First of all, before we started recording, I mentioned the Marty Supreme anticipation and how and how its merch has sort of looped into this. Our buddy Jacob Gallagher had a great piece in the New York Times this past week about so I am Marty Supreme the new Safdie and it's Benny Safdie directorial only him debut that comes out on Christmas Day everybody who's seen it said it's awesome I love the Safdie Brothers movies I'm very excited to see it but out of this has come this like merch story of Timothy Chalamet shows up to it he did do a screening but this like pop-up shop he's wearing head to toe Dior.

3:49He looked amazing. He had the pink cable knit sweater on. He finally did this cable knit sweater justice. He looked really, really good. But he's they're selling this merch that they made for the movie that originally was just going to be for the promo tour. But it's become this like giant deal. Everybody wants this$250 windbreaker. I'm so curious. That's fantastic. Because you're a sort of a student where you are a student of fashion and and its place in culture. I am honestly a little shocked by how insane merch still is after all these years. I have gotten so and bought so much merch in the last month.

4:30And I'm like, when will merch be done? Well, you know, I'm sure you're like, you've heard the argument that like everything is merch, right? Like the yeah, since the whatever Virgil ablohization of fashion that it's like all just sort of versions of merch and in a weird way I do feel like merch is sort of the truest version of fashion right it's just sort of like branding for a season and when I see this stuff it's like oh it's so great it's so cute and like even that the fact the fact that the title has supreme in it is like so cheeky in and of itself true I want it it's so great I'm like who designed this it's this guy let's look up jacob's article i almost i almost asked jacob to like pop in to discuss this but he's i love that too much next time um new york times but all of the stuff like so my my my partner's in film and he's done a lot of work with a24 and he's like obsessed with the publicity that they've been doing like did you see they leaked this uh zoom call that they did with Timothee Chalamet.

5:44And my partner was like, what is this? Is it real? Is it not? Like, it's brilliant. I can't stop watching it. He was like sending it to everybody. It's so smart, like the way that they've built this mystique around this movie that already probably could have sailed along on its own merit. Agreed. It's so good. So the designer of the merch is this guy, Donnie Namius, who has a Namius and LA clothing label. And so basically they made the clothes with Taylor McNeil, the stylist who works with Timothy, and they were going to use it for the campaign. But A24 was like, why don't we just make it? Which is so smart.

6:30And also$250 for a windbreaker is basically free.

6:37No, it's really. And also, like, have you heard about the, what is it, the Brutalist sweater? Yes. Yeah. I made 300 of them, right? Yeah, exactly. Have you seen the Brutalist? Yeah. What did you think? Amazing opening credits. Some of the best opening credits I've ever seen. I wish I walked out at intermission. This is what I told everybody. I was like, it's great if you leave at intermission, but then if you left at intermission, you wouldn't believe if I told you what happened. after intermission. Not my favorite. I don't know. What did you think of it? I didn't see it. I don't, I can't. Here's the thing for me.

7:17The only way I could see that movie is if I went to a theater because I would fall asleep. I'm going to just watch the opening credits maybe this week. Amazing opening credits. Truly incredible opening credits. I am very, like the only movies I've seen this year are Sinners. Not the only. I've seen, I've seen a good amount. But like the movies that I've made expressly gone and paid money to see our sinners and um the pta movie uh yes one battle after another which was job honestly good job it's the best honestly i'm not like a big cinephile but i've seen every single paul thomas anderson movie without trying like it's he's just the best happens at you yeah no i i realized one day i was like oh i've actually seen every single one of his movies How did, how does that happen?

8:04Um, but yeah, that it's interesting. I think I, the, your point of that everything is merch is really smart. And also the way it makes, I don't, it's so fascinating because I'm, I, it's not a runway thing anymore and it hasn't been for several years, but because designers aren't creative enough, like they used it. And then the creative, like Virgil used it obviously but the creative ones used it and then they i i think jonathan anderson's half zip with the little like dinky dior underneath the zip is really good but i don't think that was even on his runway i think he's just using out it outside of the runway but um i don't think they're creative enough but i was in new york a couple weeks ago and i've got i went to library 180 and we did a merch exchange I did one with Stephen Chaykin and Nikki they they gave I gave them a bunch of puck merch and they gave me about and that that that hat I've been wearing everywhere then I went to Alison Roman's pop-up and I got a hat and and a bag and then I went to Climax Books and got like socks that say books are exciting I paid for those obviously but it's just and I was like how did I come back with like 15 new bags and I also oh I went to um I love like an art it's it's so good this art book fair in in LA and it I got this book from um Reagan galleries that is this no this bag they have a magazine called quarterly report and you know I'm obsessed with quarterly reports because I'm writing about the industry and it's and so I got this this bag that says something like something about quarterly reports I I'm just out of control do you buy merch are you good about like only buying stuff occasionally and being like very judicious with your fashion purchases I I don't know I like I'm not I'm not a big merch person but sometimes I just can't resist it and also it's so bonding when you have a good piece of merch and people are like hey nice merch I'm trying to think of the last piece of merch that I bought I don't know I was just like given these well like tote bags can't have too many tote bags you can but you can't you can but you can't the idea of having like a jacket like a big old jacket with stuff on it.

10:45I don't know. Like my dad, my dad's like a big fan of King Crimson and he went to Japan recently. He had like this big, he went on this big trip with my mom. They're retired and they went to Japan and he has this like big King Crimson jacket and he was like making friends with people in Japan who came up and were like also big King Crimson fans. And it's like, that's what it's all about. That's what it's all about. Oh no, that was the last piece of merch I was tempted to buy. I saw Air do their big like moon safari tour. I was like, oh my God, I kind of want a moon safari jacket. But I didn't do it.

11:21I didn't do it. I didn't do it. The merch line was too long. That's when I'm tempted to do it. Like band merch. I love band merch. Yeah, I feel like the merch lines at those shows. I've been going to, I've had a concert revival after about 15 years of not wanting to go to any shows. I've gone to a bunch this year. and I, the, the like death now for me going to shows was going to see iron and wine at the Bowery ballroom. And I was like, I'm never going to a show again, but this year was literally 13, probably 2010 or 11. I was like, I was in my early thirties and I was like, I cannot deal with this.

12:05I am done. I'm never going to a show again. And then I went to see, I was telling my friend this the other day then I went to see Bon Iver at Barclays and I was like I'm really done but then what brought you back uh nostalgia honestly like there were so many 20 and 30 year I've gone to see I went to Oasis I went to see nice uh which I did not get any merch I went to see like we went to see Counting Crows my friend Molly and I have been on a real tour we went to heim we went to i got a ringer tea at rilo kylie which honestly out of all these shows was the best one i went to it was um it was at the hollywood bull and they were just they're so good and it was it was really nostalgic but also i went to built a spill the other night like incredible incredible yeah it was fun but yeah i understand like the the line is long do you are do you mostly shop vintage or do you do a mix?

13:05I do. I'm like, where do I buy my clothes? I guess I do mostly shop vintage. I feel like I'm like, where do I get all my stuff from? I feel like half of it is like stuff I found on the street. Like, or, or a lot of it is like, I don't know. I like to buy stuff from, um, from friends. Like I'm wearing pants that like my friend made and like he embroidered these you know like they're really cool oh wow you can't really see them there but like they're denim they're denim they're denim embroidered but i i'm just such a sucker if someone's like i make these i'm like well i have to support you you know i have to i have to buy these things um but yeah like especially artists who are upcyclers i'm like take take my money take all my money i'll gladly pay$400 for this skirt you fished out of the trash and sewed another skirt on top of this skirt like gladly um I feel like that's where all my stuff comes from like someone in Bushwick who found something and sewed something on top of the thing like yeah the jeans are great and they look so good because you have amazing personal style do you what's your what's your relationship with armani i'm curious oh my god uh i love armani i love armani so much i can't say i like own any armani but a friend of my a very dear personal friend of mine works at armani and it was funny he got married like the weekend we were so worried mr armani was going to pass away like during his wedding and we were like on tinterhooks being like he can't we have to like make it through the wedding but it was really fun because he he and his husband got married and they went to like the Armani warehouse in Milan where like the um employees get to go so they were both in these like incredible tuxes and they kind of didn't care because they were so cheap for them and they just like sweated through these incredible tuxes at their at their wedding it was it was fantastic So I have these like very fond memories with Armani and I'm trying to convince, I'm getting married next year and I'm like really trying to convince my fiance to like go to the Armani warehouse and like do what my friends did and like get that thing.

15:27But also like, I don't know, just historically, the whole story of Armani, I like I worked on a story about Armani and like the birth of the personal stylist and what Armani did in terms of dressing celebrities and how he was kind of the first to take celebrities under his wing and kind of show them how to dress and create this sort of like casual personality. personal style that we sort of take for granted that celebrities are supposed to have, like, outside of the studio system. And, like, I just feel so tenderly towards him. And also, oh, my favorite thing are just, like, the pictures of Mr.

16:12Armani at work. Like, have you seen that picture of him? Oh, my God. Like, doing his shop window? I don't know. I'll search it right now. You have to find it. It's so great. Someone like passed the Armani store in, in Milan and it's just, Oh wow. And he's like 89 years old at 89 years old. And he's just futzing with his own store window. And it's like, that's him. That's him. So good. Really cared. Well, the thing about him, that's so remarkable. Oh, I'm not. Everything is the fact that he's been able to, he did. He was in the news again this weekend, which every photo I'm like, such a handsome man.

16:54So handsome. But he was in the news again this weekend because Essilor Luxottica, the big eyewear conglomerate that has been partners with them forever on eyewear, announced that they would be interested. So there's like a 15 % stake in Armani up for grabs that eventually could be a much bigger stake. But the way he set up, he set up his business in a really unique way. There's a trust. to essentially ensure it doesn't get screwed up, but that they do get to move on and build it out and make it modern. He understood that being independent forever was probably not going to be what happened after he died.

17:35And also, I think he wanted to control it even post-mortem. So he created this very elaborate scheme. But he mentioned three companies that he thought would be good partners. He said Essilor Luxottica, L 'Oreal, who's their other partner in beauty, and then LVMH. And he mentioned them like, these are companies I'd be interested in, but everybody's sort of taken it as these are the three companies that are going to get prioritized. And I don't know if that's exactly the case. I think the company that's going to get prioritized by the board is the one that they think is the best partner and probably the one offering the most money for the stake.

18:13But Essilor said this weekend that they would be interested in like a 5 % to 10 % stake. The interesting thing to me, and I'm curious to know from you what you think about this, if Essilor takes a 5 % to 10 % stake and then L 'Oreal takes a 5 % to 10 % stake, and then basically what Essilor said is we don't want to manage the business. We'll let them keep managing it, the current management that's in place. um things will change but it's going to be much more slow because this is the the the sort of entrenched way of working will still continue it will change because obviously a new ceo mr armani isn't there to be doing the windows anymore but but like if and and i think the likelihood of an LVMH investment is very, very low.

19:06It's not God. Yeah. And it's not honestly, it's not a business that they, it's not a very profitable business. It's, it needs to be totally restructured. It doesn't have the thing that LVMH has done the last few years is they've invested in companies that are, um, that have a specialty. So Laura Piana knit cashmere, uh, Ramoa luggage, Tiffany hard diamonds. Like these are things that are like materials and that they, and they've been able to restructure those businesses super fast and, and make them much, much bigger. Armani is like their Armani specialty is making nice clothes. So it's just a different.

19:51It's not even like Xenia, which is like really what I could see happening here is that like Xenia comes in as a clothing partner or something. I don't because Xenia is really expanding a lot. We'll see. But I'm already used to have a specialty. You know, they used to be linen. That's it. That's interesting. That's a good point. So maybe what do you when you see this stuff as, you know, you're not only following the money the way I am, whereas I'm like, make it big, hire Hedy Slaman and just like blow it out. What would you like to see? How would you like to see Armani evolve? I mean, of course, I'm like, bring it back to basic.

20:32Like, I can imagine them being like, okay, we're going to make like the summer version of Laura a piano and be like, it's going to be linens. It's going to be like soft shoulder, light. Yeah, I can just imagine them being like premium linens because that was their whole thing initially. And no one had really thought about making linen like a luxury fabric in that way. But I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's yeah, I don't think anyone would ever do that. But also, I don't really want them to get LVMH-fied. I don't really want them to get sort of uh um i don't want their headquarters to get redesigned by um what's his name hetty no no peter who's the guy who does all their headquarters oh peter marina i don't i don't want that to happen to the to the to armani like i i think it's great but the okay i don't humor me here i don't know if luxotica has taken over apparel other than brooks brothers like do they have experience in this before they own supreme so they are saying that they would not do that that they would just let the company manage it and they would take this five to ten percent stake yeah um but they do own supreme supreme outright but i think i mean especially given if anyone has any um intel of what's happening there it seems like they really have left supreme alone because supreme was owned by vf corp which was was not the right fit and i think this brand Essilor was like I think we can do eyewear and make it a big thing and and my sense is they've left them alone if that's not true someone call me please um but yeah I mean I think here this is my my true feeling is I agree that I want it to remain pure in in the I loved going to Armani shows, they were so pure.

22:32I do think that there's a lot of when, when you have a business that is run independently for 50 years and it's essentially family run, um, there's a lot of bureaucracy that is just like insane that they could strip away. And I think that the people who are running it now will do that. We'll start that. But I also think there is something to be said in this is an apparel company that has a very low margin. Let's try to re-engineer it to be a better, more streamlined business without taking away from what is good about it. And I also think the last 15, 20 years in luxury has been really focused on handbags and building up that business.

23:22I don't think what would be nice is if whoever is running it tries to keep this to be a clothing business and not because the handbags are fine. They're cute or whatever. You can make evening bags or shoes or or. But I think like the thing that the row has done and less in Europe, which is interesting. I was when I was talking about this with someone the other day that like in Paris, everyone is like, yeah, we all talk about the row all the time, but none of us wear it. Whereas I think here people wear it because a lot of people get it secondhand to here. But I think the thing the row has done is they have an incredible handbag and shoe business.

24:05It's probably I don't know if it's the majority of sales or not, but like you still think about it in terms of clothing. And I think they have sort of, I don't want to say they're modern Armani, it's just a different world now. But there is a sense of, and also the way they design, which is taking samples from, you know, Margella Hermes and tweaking them, which like, God bless. But like, I don't think Armani was working in that way. But I think like there is something to be said of let's figure out how to make a profitable clothing business and not and not just like try to push handbags. Nobody wants these pan bags anymore.

24:49It's just like too much. Yeah. Well, also, I feel like, you know, most of the I can only speculate that most of Armani's money lies in like Armani Exchange and like the. That would be correct. And in the beauty license. Yeah. And all of that stuff. So they need to figure out how that all works.

25:44What kind of holiday shopping have you been doing? I had a report today on sort of the future of Saks Fifth Avenue and what's going to happen for the holiday season. But I'm hearing from people on the ground and like reports from the stores that like a lot of the brands are seeing a big slowdown this season in the U.S. and Europe in particular. How much holiday shopping do you do? And are you mostly shopping from the upcycling people in Bushwick? Or do you have like a sort of process of how you get it done? I'm generally not a big holiday shopper. Like that's kind of, my family is not big on presents.

26:32Like my father won't like let us buy him presents. Um, although I did buy, well, I'm like, will my mom listen to this? Should I, should I not say what I got her? I did get her like a very cool nightgown from this. Um, have you heard of Sally Fox? No. She's amazing. She's this like plant geneticist and she makes these incredible cotton. She breeds cotton that is no longer white. Like cotton used to come in all these different colors. And in America, it was bred to be white so that it could be dyed lots of different colors. and so she has dyed she is like bred very carefully over many many years she's made cotton that is naturally green and brown and red so it's completely undyed and then the more you wear it like the deeper the color it gets it's so beautiful it's like the most amazing thing and so she saw me wearing my like green cotton nightgown and she's like I want one so I got her one in brown they're lovely and she also makes like socks and baby clothes so they're they're really really special so I love getting stuff like that like if I get someone something it's like one thing and um I got my partner though he's in the next room I got my partner the like uh Filson Bluntstone boots that are like I love those should I maybe I should get mine now they're there I love so just like a little special thing like one special thing um but yeah that's kind of like the extent of it I'm not a big like spree shopper but I worry that everybody's kind of doing that this year well I I do think I was thinking about this because I have a four and a half year old and we are like not lying about we're just we're I was very traumatized by finding out that Santa wasn't real.

28:29So like, I still think about it. It really ruined my life in some ways. And it was a little too early. I think my grandma was like, it's the spirit. I was like, what does that mean? I was six. I think I could, should have waited. I child of divorce. I think they should have waited till I was eight. Like that would have been old, but like, I just knew too much already as a six-year-old that like it really it really damaged me so we are not like fully lying about it but we are just like yeah whatever santa just enjoy enjoy your life with santa but he i don't know i think he get like we don't spoil him but we do like get it if he wants a lego we get him legos whatever like it's just i don't so there's less of my husband i come from a family where like the gift really means something my husband's family like they barely they barely did Christmas so it's just this thing of I've we've been together for so long that like I don't I also am less interested in it um because he doesn't like anytime I get him something he's like thanks and it doesn't like really hit so I just I was like fine I'm just gonna get you an the fancy AeroPress, like you said, you want it, which I love AeroPress.

29:48But it's interesting because I do, I've been thinking about this in the context of my kid. Like we don't, we only decorate for Christmas. We don't decorate for Halloween and all these things. Like, I don't know if this is just us or if the culture has changed where like people just sort of get what they want when they want it. So why? I feel that way too. I feel that way too. Oh, yeah. Like I get one gift a year and I, which this started last year because I really wanted a second Nermes bag. And I was like, if you get me this, nothing else for the rest of the year is like fine. So this year I got Phoebe Philo earrings and I'm already wearing them.

30:28I'm not going to get anything on Christmas morning and that's fine. But I wonder if there is just like a sort of shift in American culture. Look, like, is this happening in Boca Raton or whatever no probably not but like I do think there is this sense of everything's so instant now why do you need why do you need to make a big thing around the holidays and treat yourself culture I'm remembering that like there's this tweet that I think this I I always joke that we were gonna once that once upon a time we were gonna quote Twitter like it was Confucius or like the Quran or something. And then like, now I'm already doing it.

31:08I'm like, as Twitter once said, as the prophet Twitter so much, I tried to go back the other day and notice Nomi Fry still on it. I was like, less, less, like, she's still really in it. And I was like, I'm so happy you're here. And then I never went back. Yeah, good, good, good for her. But I think of this tweet all the time that was like, I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna treat myself today, like, or what is it? It's like me who's denied myself nothing. I'm going to treat myself today. And it's like, that's how I am. I'm like, yeah, sure. I deserve this, even though I've never not deserved it. Like yesterday, I bought myself a really nice pen, like a really nice pen.

31:46It's very embarrassing. I love fountain pens. I like can't resist them. And that's like my little treat that I keep giving myself. I just can't stop with the fountain pens. And I also think they're a great present for everybody. They are a good gift. I feel like if you get one that you like and you like the way it writes, to just have it and make it your signature. Unfortunately, the notebook that I really loved is harder and harder to find. What is it? It was one of those life stationary notebooks, but it's a, what are those called? Stenographer notebook, but it's not Greg ruled. So it doesn't have a line down the middle and it was the perfect reporting notebook.

32:26And they still make it Greg ruled. But like for years, I was just stocking up the non-grade grade ruled one. And there is this like silly DTC company that makes the non-grade grade ruled stenographer's notebook. It's just like the perfect size for an interview. It's a perfect. It's just the easiest thing for me. But it is like a little bit of a cheesy. It like says something like the reporter on it or something. I don't know. It's just like too much. it's probably out of business already but yeah that's so cool but you're right that it that is a very nice a nice gift um but you're right i was like but when i was debating this was yesterday i was like should i buy this should i like wait for the holidays like no i'm gonna get it now i was like yeah what is this in the culture that's like i need it when well well maybe because like also because things come in and out of stores so quickly i'm like if i miss this it might be gone like I could lose the chance to get yes yeah there is a sense of of last chance instant life and what will you do without it this is this is the life we lead so what what you've done with articles of interest is sort of like the opposite of that it's not instant it's it's a lot of work it's a lot of effort and you're really telling like a full story which you are so good at transitions.

33:57That's amazing. I am trying. You're amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Tell me about, let's talk for people who have not listened ever, which I'm sure the overlap is, is very high and that won't be the case, but tell me about like the sort of concept of it. Cause I've been listening to you. I listened to you on the cut, like when you were doing their podcasts, I've been listening to you forever. You are a professional. We love having professional podcasts on on fashion people podcasters um but tell me about the sort of concept with the series and what this series in particular how you sort of came up with it and what you're trying to say with it so i started well so i started out i i am a nepo baby my parents met working in radio and And so I just like wanted to work in radio more than anything else.

34:54Amazing. It's really funny. They would like tell me stories about like they met working at WNYC and they have these amazing pictures of my mom with like her big 80s hair and her big 80s earrings, like smoking cigarettes and cutting tape with a knife and talking about how like Allen Ginsberg would wander in. And I was like, OK, I want to do that. Like I'll do that with my life. I want to work in radio, like podcasting. Podcasting didn't exist yet. And that was just what I wanted to do. I didn't really know the topic, but I sort of ended up working for this podcast that was about architecture and design called 99 % Invisible.

35:28And I loved it. But I realized, you know, as we were talking and 99 % Invisible is this amazing show. It's mostly about architecture and graphic design and industrial design. And I worked there for five years before I realized, like, we weren't really talking about clothing design. and it's as important a design lens as the rest of the world. And so I started Articles of Interest within that show. And I basically was like, oh, why don't we take the design lens that, the design criticism lens that's often applied to like architecture criticism or design criticism and apply it to fashion. And so that's kind of the idea behind Articles of Interest is like a design critic lens to fashion, which means it's very like history based and very like theory based.

36:22And so it's like, you know, where does Paisley come from? Why do women's clothes have no pockets? And questions that I think are very like podcasty on the surface. But I'm always really surprised by the answers. I end up being like very shocked by the things that we end up finding. Something you just said that really just got to my core, which is that generally fashion criticism is so emotional. Yeah, it is. So emotional and you just know the person, you can't trust them because it's just about what they like. And, you know, the way I approach this stuff is through the lens of the business side.