Meet the Queen of Going Out Tops and Sexy(ish) Dresses

0:03Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Cucks Fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Yael Aflalo, serial entrepreneur and founder of Aflalo. We're talking about lots of sexy stuff today, including merchandising and distribution, but also about starting up another brand, why Yael just knows what women want to wear, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck where I send an email called line sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries.

0:49Line sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested, listeners of fashion people get a discount. Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I feel like I'm practically on vacation because I'm in LA and no one else is. And while I'm working as hard as always, it is nice when everyone else's is on holiday.

1:31So I'm trying to enjoy the quiet, quiet moment. This week on Line Sheet, lots of great stuff. Interview with Rachel Sturgatz, who's on the Goop Beat for us, and Amy O'Dell, who's New York Times bestselling book, Gwyneth, is being read by everyone I know. So please check it out. On Thursday, I wrote about Frederick Arnaud and the new CEO of Laura Piana and also obviously an heir to the Arno empire and the challenges he faces there and the opportunities. It's an amazing brand. And there's a lot to do moving forward. It's going to be interesting to see him develop as an executive. He is only 29 years old.

2:16So more to come from that corner of the Arno universe, for sure. And then on Friday, Sarah Shapiro caught us up the week that was in retail and and had some really interesting insights about the Ralph Lauren earnings in particular. Well, Ralph Lauren is really the brand of the year. Congrats to Patrice Louvet. Congrats to Mr. Lauren. Congrats to all the comms people who work there, who you know I love, and I'm, I am very happy for them. And also congrats to Michael Ryder and his whole team and all the other designers and, you know, everyone who's been building up Ralph Lauren for the past five years and allowing it to fulfill its full potential.

3:00Only person that I'm kind of bummed didn't get to see it happen for herself is Valerie Herman, who was an integral part of this strategy. And she left a few years ago and moved back to France, but she is amazing also. So I hope you're all having a glass of champagne, even though the shares were down for one reason or another. But Sarah gets into that. Let's get going with Yael. Huge fan. Love having all these sort of new brand builders on. We had Isabel Wilkinson a couple of weeks ago and now Yael and going to have Georgiana from Hunza Ji on in a couple of weeks. So I hope you'll you enjoy this little mini summer series that we're doing.

3:43Yael is so impressive and I'm a big fan of her personally. Also, just an FYI, I did not let her send me the blouse. I wasn't going to go into a thing about how I don't take free gifts, but I obviously didn't. That's it. Let's get going.

4:04Yael Aflalo, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you. How are you doing? I'm very happy today. I love your background. Is this your office? We actually just got a new place in LA and this is actually Gary's office. We moved in like five days ago. Oh, cool. Amazing. Well, welcome. Looks great. What'd you have for breakfast this morning? Did you have breakfast? It's still pretty early here. No, I did. I had a protein smoothie. Yeah, I make a protein smoothie with lots of different healthy ingredients. How long have you been prioritizing protein in your life? Oh my God. My daughter, somebody asked my daughter, um, somebody asked my daughter, tell me about your mom.

4:50And they're like, she eats way too much protein. She's, she's too obsessed with protein. Um, I guess probably since I started noticing aging in my body, like where I'm like, oh, I can't do any of the things that I want to do. So I am just, I am confused by how much protein I actually need. Suddenly my husband is into it. He's like, did you know we need to eat a gram of protein for every pound? And I was like, I think I'm not going to eat that much protein. I don't know how I would eat that much, but it is a funny thing of it's just become the obsession of the internet, especially if you're aged like 35 to 50.

5:35Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's supposedly as women, if we don't need enough protein, we will wither and die according to the internet. Yes. Have you started strength training a lot more too? Yeah. So I'm like, I'm basically like the, I'm an Instagram meme. Same. I'm 48 years old and I'm fully a longevity meme. I went to a doctor on the west side of LA. So that says, that's the first part of it. That was like one of these, she tests how old you are. Oh God. And she was like, you're five years older in your body then. So I'm 42. So she was like, you're actually 47. And if you don't do all these things immediately, you're fucked.

6:22And so I was like, fine. So I'm basically up on all this stuff. So what marker did she test? I'll send you, I'll send you the results. The thing is I went to like a GP and she was like, you look, you're great. You're so healthy. You've done all this stuff to improve your health over the last 10 years. You you're, she was like, you're in, you're amazing. So it was one of those things where she also sold me a bunch of her longevity supplements, but I'll send it to you. and you can tell me if it's worth anything. But I do wake up in the morning stiff, which is annoying. Yeah, that's the beginning of it.

7:02So you're here in LA. You grew up here too, right? We're actually mostly in New York, but for the summertime, we came to LA. Nice. It's better here in the summer. Yeah. It's much drier. It was very sticky. but did you how how long did you live here before moving to New York full-time because I lived in LA till I was 30 and then I was in New York 30 to 36 and then LA for a little bit and then I've been back in New York for about six years oh nice and what do you what is the value of being in New York do you feel like versus being in LA for your job, especially you just launched this business about a year ago?

7:47Well, I mean, the talent pool in New York for fashion, especially if you're trying to go after, you know, a certain designer look. I mean, yeah, I don't think you can compare the level of talent. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Do you feel like the thing that I I've never worked for a Los Angeles based company so and I've lived here for five years but so I don't really know this is just outside observation but I do feel like people often say to me you seem like you're from New York yeah they always said that to me when I lived in LA always let me tell you why it's because I can't see perfectly right now but I think you don't have highlights and I think to have like a single color hair color is very it's like oh oh no it's not an LA thing I got them oh you do you have did you get it when you moved here I just got them this past so I didn't color my hair basically since high school using manic panic or whatever and then I I I when I turned 40 I started going pretty gray and it just the gray with the black, my hair's almost black.

8:59It's really, it looks too harsh. And so I tried to do like balayage and it didn't cover it. So she finally, I have this great person. I went to David Mallet to get a blowout in Paris last week and David Mallet, the man came up to me and was like, your color is amazing. And I said, Oh, it's my color colorist is in Larchmont. She just, she has this little studio, her name's Stacy Tabarez. And he was like, why are you? And he kind of, he was like, why are you acting like it's nothing? Because she's in a little studio in LA. It's still her color. The color's amazing. And I told Stacy, so shout out to Stacy, but I do, I'll show you afterwards.

9:41I'll like take my hair down. It's pretty, I've, it's pretty intense, but yes, I've, I fear being cheesy highlight mom from LA. Listen, there are highlights in New York for sure. But it's just, I think to have a single color, like a single color process in LA, I don't even think they do those here. I, I tried and it looked, they didn't know how to do it. Your hair is Brown. It's all one color. Yeah. He like dyed my hair, like black red. And I was like, I look like a witch. Can you, can you not? And then, so I went back to, I tried Stacey first. She did a good job. And I was like, I'm just going to try someone who could do this single process.

10:20and then I went back to her. She's magical. She's so good. But yeah, that's a funny distinction. Do you also think, do you think there's just something, I don't want to say work ethic, because I don't think that's fair, but do you just think there's a different way of operating? Yeah, I'm very direct. I'm pretty sure you are too. I say what's on my mind. I think that's just the way of communicating is very different in New York than in LA, right? People are like, oh yeah, like that would be great. Like you don't really, you don't actually. Yeah. I think it's a different, different operating system.

11:00I love to say that everyone in LA is hopeful. Everyone in New York is ambitious and everyone in Paris is discouraged. It's not possible. It's so, No, it's so good. With applause. I will say this about LA, one thing. I love back to the longevity wellness stuff. Nobody does it better than LA. It is just. It's true. It's amazing. A facial here is something to behold. Well, that's actually a good thing for you to do your list of places. I bet T Magazine would eat that up for your PR team. I've gotten into it lately as a more, you know, when I was like 30, I never did facials, but now I'm like, well, you look amazing.

11:48Oh, thank you. Too bad. This is not going to be on video, but you look really good. Um, so let's talk a bit about your background. Your parents were in the fashion business. Like you kind of grew up in it and you've had, this is your third company, or maybe it's more that I don't even know about another one, but, um, no three real ones. I definitely like dabbled. Yeah. I had my company in middle school, but we're not going to make that one. So a, why were you so drawn to this business and be like, you started three different companies and they've, they've all been successful. This one is new, but right off the bat, like it's really picked up.

12:31What, what drew you to fashion as like someone who was around it growing up and then be like, what makes you keep wanting to start new businesses? What, what is the drive that is propelling that? I just, I, I guess I just love clothes. I always have. Um, I used to like dress my little sister. She would hate it. I'd be like, this is what you're wearing for third grade, you know, first day really over the top. Um, but yeah, I just love clothes. I don't know. Even when I'm, even on my days off, I'm shopping. I, I like I'm always you know checking out clocking what everybody's wearing I'm just it's what I it's where my mind goes um and why do I keep starting businesses you know I just so I just started to follow and I started and I'm like it's so much work and I'm like why did I do this to myself like I can't look did I lose my mind like you know why would I do this and then um I think I like did some thinking about it.

13:30It's like there's something about fashion that really punctuates life where it's like every other job. It's just you kind of go to work and, you know, you have your meetings and maybe it's doing well or it isn't, but it's like small dips. Whereas in fashion, it's like you have to build this whole momentum around the launch and you're so excited and nervous. And what is everybody going to think? And then you launch and are they going to like it? Are you going to get orders? Are people going to buy it. Okay. No, they didn't. Okay. And I think that the, the ups and downs really make life exciting for me.

14:05And without it, I'm sort of, I'm bored. Yeah. I understand that there's always something new. There's always something to look forward to. There's not, there's always a next thing there's for you. It's there is, you have to deliver a collection. Yes. And so you have to keep moving on. And that is, I understand that. And I'm sure that the ups and downs, I mean, starting a new business, that's a whole other thing, but just once the business is established, the ups and downs also reflect what's happening in the bigger culture and all of that stuff too. So it must be interesting to see, oh, suddenly people are into this lace blouse I made.

14:48what does that say about what's happening in the in the world because it does usually connect somehow oh it's totally connected um yeah it's very exciting i would say the the excitement is what really keeps me engaged so tell me about aflalo in particular and what your big idea we did a we did a piece when you launched last it was last fall right and which was super fun and everybody should check it out on line sheet but what did you want to create and and how has it gone in the first six months like what have you discovered about this new customer that you were you were designing for well I really wanted to create a luxury fashion brand that was wearable I don't know how to say wearable and luxury together but bucket I wanted to start something that was wearable and beautiful and made me feel good about myself and was like at a price that was like more approachable i think we talked about it before like luxury just keeps moving the goalpost like who can be like it's like who can be wealthy enough to afford it um and so it's like um i was recently talking to somebody and they were like oh i just heard about this new brand it's like a streetwear brand where you know the the jackets are 35 000 and you're like like isn't that amazing you're like yeah it's amazing i can't wait um yeah something that was you know beautiful but still like something that i feel about my friends and um even like co-workers could enjoy.

16:32And then the first six months, I guess I, you know, I would look back on like the early days at Ruff and that's like the salad days. Oh, I miss those early days. Like, oh my God, it's so great. Like it was so great. It was 10 people and we were all just like in it together. And then, and I think I just like total rose colored lenses. Cause now that I'm back in the early stages, I'm like, no, it is not. It's so hard, you know? So I think I definitely recolored it. It's very challenging in the beginning, I think. It's a lot of work. There's like, it's just like, it's like a vacuum. It's like chaos and emptiness and you have to like build something out of nothing.

17:18And so just doing that. But again, I think I'm addicted to the excitement of it. Supply chain wise, you are probably one of the fashion entrepreneurs who understands manufacturing and supply chain and is like on the ground floor with that stuff more than anyone else that I talk to on a regular basis. Well, you've built these businesses and so much of what they are about is how the stuff gets made and pricing them in a way that is, you know, with the customer in mind, but that doesn't sacrifice the quality and all of that with all, all three of your businesses looking back, um, what has been, because this is, you know, you're making a lot of stuff in Italy.

18:04What has been the biggest surprise for you or challenge on supply chain? I mean, I guess there's some tariff stuff, obviously I don't, we don't have to go, go into the hell, but, um, But what has been different for you this time around and what have you learned about how stuff gets made?

18:27I'm definitely learning a lot about luxury finishings and luxury sewing and how to do things in that way. And I think I'm trying, you know, usually in supply chain, you're just really, really focused on efficiency. And, you know, you do focus on quality, but efficiency is just so much more important. And I think now with luxury, it's like I need to retrain my brain a bit to be like, don't worry about that for right now. Focus more on quality. It might take, you know, it's okay that this is, you know, way, way more expensive and to not be afraid of, you know, in my previous businesses, you have to be very thoughtful about price points, you know.

19:07And I think with here, it's like, oh, OK. You know what I mean? 9 ,000 it is. People have more flexibility and appreciation. And I think you were talking about this before about like, what have I learned? Like this customer is different than like a contemporary customer. She doesn't need basics as much. I think she probably has a lot of I mean, she definitely wants like beautiful quality basics. but I think she, you know, she has a black leather jacket. She's looking for something like very special and unique. And so I think it's more, she wants more fashion, I think.

19:55The thing that I think you're really, really good at is identifying a silhouette or an idea that a is going to make a woman feel like good and sexy and attractive, but that's also feels like right for the moment trend wise, but isn't too trendy. Like you have that thing of getting stuff just right. Thank you. How does your mind work? I don't know if you're able to describe it. I can't describe it. Tell me. Tell me. So basically, I was like, I was actually thinking about this recently. I feel like my brain's kind of like an AI model a little bit, where it's like I can train on something. So I'll be like, you know, these are the key players that I need to look at.

20:44And then I'm kind of... So I think a lot of times when people are looking at fashion, I think that they are very expansive, like looking at so many different things. I try not to do that. I keep it pretty tight, like of what I'm training my model on. Yeah. I keep it really tight and I'm looking at it like that. And then, um, you know, I'm not super skinny. I'm not, you know, overweight by any means, but I'm not like the typical skinny fashion girl. So I think I understand how things look on bodies. yeah no whereas like and then I also have spent time like in fittings and at work and with my friends talking to women about what they like about their bodies and what they don't like about their bodies and so I've really done the research like you know I don't have a problem with the upper arm but it's like such a thing for women it's become I'm sure entering my 40s I was like I didn't know I never understood it like why it bothered people and now I'm like oh my god it is a huge issue for a lot of women.

21:51It's like a big thing, you know, and like, as I'm getting older, it's like the back of a bra, that thing, that area. So that's, I think it's kind of related to that area. And so just being really thoughtful about that. I'm trying to think like comfort. I also have seen the fashion cycles a bunch of times now. So it's like the genie pant, like I wanted to do the genie pant and some of the younger girls in my office were like horrified. and I was like no no no it's definitely it's genie pant time like I can yeah I can see the what comes next like it was yeah pants were super wide now they have to go skinny so you've seen the I've seen it enough times yeah do you with the more fancier materials that you're working with now.

22:38Have you found that? Because I, I found like, I've never worn, um, any Spanx or skims or anything like that. Like I wear skims bras, but not any like shape body shape stuff because I'm like, Hey, I don't think it works. And B I don't want more fabric. I'd rather just wear something looser, but I will say I bought some more like body con dresses in recent years and have been amazed at like, oh, they give me this new shape and I also feel good and I don't feel like I need to hide anything because have you found that like working, having like access to more expensive materials, has that helped you in terms of like creating silhouettes and styles that you think like do make women feel really good?

23:30Yeah, because I think like, you know, take just we have this basic button down and it's like honestly it fits well it's but it's the fabric so i really don't have to do much we have simple like trousers it's just the fabric they're just so lovely you know yeah and so i think it just gives you the license to make things um they just probably would be like nothing yeah otherwise and then on the skin tight the body con stuff yes like there's beautiful like full fashion knit sweaters dresses we made some that is just like you know just right in and like no lumps it's really amazing and heavy and like that's something you could never do you know yeah yeah i bought legere but like two times as thick yeah i bought something that was in that kind of fabric from a high street brand recently And I was like, oh, this doesn't work as well as my Alaya dress.

24:33No. What have people been drawn to? I mean, when I look through, I personally, like there's so many things. I love the button down. I love there's stuff that like is my style. But that lace top that you did, is it the Fiorenza? Yes. I love this top so much. Like it's totally not my style. I've almost bought it like 15 times because it's so one stop no no no I don't I don't do I don't take free you don't no I love it there's some women that won't take it they're like if I like it I'll buy it and I'm like I would rather buy it I do it I'll do a discount Alyssa Zachary and I have been through this for a long time she's constantly like would you like a free pair I'm like no but you can give me a discount no I'm not gonna say who but like a certain unnamed super like super powerful woman we were like we should gift her and they were like oh no she doesn't accept gifts and i'm like that's amazing that and then like maybe a month later she placed an order like awesome yeah i was like that's good well that's not what she should yes i think that's ultimate power right like i don't need your gift totally and also they should support if you have the money support a brand like i understand if you're a market editor at vogue like yeah you should take free shit.

25:52That's like half of your income. But yeah, I try to power move. I like it. Thank you. Um, yes, it's, it's definitely a power move for people who, who are not journalists, especially, but the point being that like, I just think you, that blouse, like I wouldn't buy that from anyone else, but the way that you have constructed it, the style, there's something that you've given it like a little bit, I think a lot of your stuff has a little bit of an edge, but I am, oh, it's, and it's sold out in, at least in the pink, but what have you found, like what have been, what have been the things that you've bought the deepest that have sold the best?

26:35So we're very responsive. So we're making, I think right for summer, we made 60 % of everything ourselves, which is why everything's sold out. Cause we need to increase capacity, but um people want the fun things i think especially for summer i was like i feel summer is the neglected stepchild of fashion like i think we talked about this like who even does summer collections yeah i sometimes look at people's summer collections they look like like summer in the arctic i'm not gonna say the brains like why do you have a wool coat for summer i don't know sometimes i'm like watching a runway show or i'm at fashion week and i'm like what i very often I'm like, I can't remember what season it is because it's also hot.

27:18And then it's, and I'm like, is it winter or spring? I don't remember. Yes. Very confusing. Okay. So what do I like to do? I would say like, I'm actually, I don't even think of myself mostly as a designer. I think of myself, I'm kind of a merchant. Like you're saying, like, I'm good at knowing what is what and when. And then I'm really like my other strong suit is fittings. So I'm really good at like going into a fitting and turning it into something that is like that is something that women are going to want to wear that's they're going to feel good in that and not to make it boring like that lace top is wild but i think it it it's wild but it's also something that is that something you feel like like you just said i can wear that totally and the thing is like Leandra wears it.

28:07No bra. If I bought that top, I would wear it. It looks so good on him. Oh, Jaleel. Yeah, exactly. Jaleel wears it. If I'm wearing it, I'm wearing like a little thing underneath and not showing it. But it is a thing of like, you do just really nail it. Have you found that people are coming to you for wardrobe for day to day? Or is it more like I need a going out top or I need a dress for a wedding or that type of thing? Or is it a mix of both? So for winter, so like our first season, we kind of had a lot of really great basics. And people were buying those not basics, you know, like, I guess if a double rested cashmere coat is a basic, but like a black cashmere, you know, coat.

28:56And then for summer, it's just been much more wild and much more fun. And I would say, the wilder more fashion, the piece, the better it's old so i would say our best piece is the genie pant the lolana pant we're doing really well with the jeans um the jeans look great they're great um but yeah so it would be like those kinds of more like genie pants and printed and colorful that's kind of what but i also think that's what's happening with fashion like right now it's like i'm not gonna wear like a basic white summer dress I want no no if you look at what's happening people are individual and bright and fun

29:47on pricing so the pricing is more we were talking about like how crazy the pricing's gotten and someone a reader messaged me and was like do you know how much this one best was from Dior I really love it. And I did, I did see part of the line sheet and it was, I think it was 12 ,000 euro. And I said to her, I was like, it's, it's just, it's a bet. I mean, I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's priced. Like they know what they're doing. They, they know how to price, whatever. I'm not, I'm not judging it. I don't, I think if there's demand, then you price whatever you want. But the point being like, you, you do have stuff that's, you do have$9 ,000 code or whatever, but, but like that in the grand scheme of things at this point is not that much money.

30:33No, it's not. How have you found the customers? Is there any price sensitivity? And like, have you, as you do your pricing season upon season, are you changing it at all? Is it basically the exact same formula from when you started? How are you thinking about pricing in this like very particular market where there is so much so expensive stuff? I think like when we first launched, I priced it a little lower than I want to be going forward. But I did it because I was like, I thought there would be some resistance and I wanted people to try it. And I think the quality is so good for the price. So I'm like, I got to get it in their hands let them look at it and then they'll know but honestly like there's no price resistance like that's what i'm noticing like people are buying things because they want it or they don't want it i don't think they care if there's an extra hundred dollars or you know 50 it hasn't really been the case maybe in denim i don't know we need more time to kind of tell but from what i can tell people buy things because they want it yeah yeah i think what has been so interesting about this luxury crisis essentially is that I don't think yeah I understand why the big brands really went after that ultra high net worth because there isn't sensitivity it's more of the customer just wants stuff that they like so if you and I'm kind of talking about different like I'm talking about the difference between like 800 and 900 true yes yeah like 12 000 and 14 000 but i think yeah i guess i also think like when the women are when you're buying a 12 000 vast like does it really matter if it's 15 no probably not like you're don't look at prices and i think the bigger thing like do you think that the customer has gotten savvier and has developed more taste than they used to have, or at least care understands fashion more than they used to like from when you started out and start you, I guess you were.

32:48Yeah. I mean, I started out like, Oh my God, 27 years ago. So yes, but yeah, it's totally different. People like, you know, people all over the world have access to the same style. So I'll give you an example, like 20 years ago when I would go to Israel, the girls would be like in like the weirdest jeans you've ever seen in your life and like ugly flip-flops and like a hideous t-shirt and I would be like you know okay and then recently in the past few years if you go they're like long beautiful acrylic nails and hair and like you know and and they have the whole I mean that's just like one country that I know that kind of I saw it change.