Mommy and Me

14:21Francesca Keller:But also, like, young kids don't know what's going on in the fashion world. You know, I'm it's not like I I think now I'm so curious about what that was like. And I wish, you know, at this age, I could have stepped into that world because to me, my mom just went to work and came home. And she wore high heels on the subway and did a crossword while balancing. And I had a really fun time visiting her at the office and like raiding the accessories closets. But, you know, which didn't happen often. No. And she didn't go to events often. And when she did, I would beg her to tell me what celebrities she saw.

15:03Francesca Keller:But she's never been like in it. She's never been an intention seeker. you've never been like a socialite in your life that's just not your vibe i probably wished you were as a kid but you know she was low-key and also like a very present mom i would not have known what was going on not to say something was going on but i i had no idea that she was in like the peak of the craziest fashion era whatever september issue galore well the also the peak of magazines yeah to me it was normal she'd go on shoots i really just cared about the models i wanted to meet every model true and i wanted to come to sets that's all i cared about and meet

15:53Lauren:like lady gaga and carly closs i did love i loved carly closs so much i did yeah

16:02Elissa Santisi:it's also growing up in brooklyn at that time and raising a kid in brooklyn at that time that

16:07Lauren:wasn't as common right no no i moved to brooklyn like early like okay it was 97 90 98 98 and um I wasn't, I wanted to move once I got there because it was just farther. But I loved my apartment and, you know, my husband would appease me and say, okay, we'll get the real estate section this week. You know, we'll look for something else. And I remember, I don't know if I should say this, but like Grace Coddington saying, oh, we might be doing this shoot in Brooklyn. Sorry, Elisa. And I was thinking, I was thinking, you know, I live in Brooklyn Heights. I mean, I didn't say, but I was thinking like, you know, it was just, it was looked down on, I think, you know, Brooklyn.

17:08Lauren:And then everybody started moving there and then I sort of forgot about it.

17:13Elissa Santisi:And now Brooklyn Heights feels like it's like so, it feels like it's -

17:18Francesca Keller:Everyone wants to raise their kids there.

17:18Elissa Santisi:Yeah. And it's also feels like the ep and it's funny because at some point it was the epicenter. Right. And it became the epicenter again of like. Life in in New York, whereas like. Now people like the place it's like moving to Bed-Stuy or Bay Ridge or something is the thing that people are like, oh, I have to do that. I mean, not even Bed-Stuy is glamorous now, too, but it's interesting. It seems like it all is.

17:48Lauren:I know. You just have to get further and further.

17:54Elissa Santisi:What I love about fashion today is that it is less dictatorial than ever. If you want to wear bell bottoms one day and skinny jeans tomorrow, that's totally fine. As long as you make them look good. And a lot of that freedom comes from access to the secondhand market. And Poshmark is at the center of this movement. Like you can get Michael Korsalene, Phoebe Philo Salene, Hedy Slamon Salene, and Michael Ryder Salene all in one place. And for prices that feel fair. I love that there's a lot of proper vintage on there too. I'm currently on the hunt for Phoebe Philo era Chloe. If you see anything, send me a Poshmark link.

18:31Elissa Santisi:There's tons of men's stuff on there and kids stuff on there too. We love Bobo Shos. and any purchase over$500 will go through an authentication process. So if you're worried about that, there's your peace of mind. It's a great place to sell stuff too, so you can buy more stuff. Find what feels like you. Shop and share your style on Poshmark today. Download the Poshmark app and use code PUCK for free shipping on your first order. That's PUCK, P-U-C-K, for free shipping on your first Poshmark order. For years, Gone South has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens.

19:13Elissa Santisi:Through deeply reported narrative-driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals, and power structures that still shape the South, and in a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to Gone South Season 5, an Odyssey podcast, Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

19:59Elissa Santisi:GoDirect, they have Instagram, they have TikTok, they have, you all are a part of like a new generation of what they call content creators now, but we're called magazine makers or journalists before or what have you. Elisa, for you, what has that been like to observe, especially because you're part of making the images, which is different than like being a person who's like writing the heads and decks in the magazine or whatever.

20:28Lauren:Yeah. Well, it's just, you know, there's no money anymore and there's more work and less time to do it. Like a two-day shoot is a one-day shoot. You know, if you're doing advertising, you have to do video. And it's just, you know, it's not as luxurious as it was. and I don't know. I just... Do you still like it? Yeah. I mean, I love fashion, so... I mean, that sounds kind of trite, but I do.

21:04Elissa Santisi:What are you loving right now in terms of... Are there any brands that you're just obsessed with that you want more people to know about?

21:14Lauren:Or pay attention to in a different way? You like that one that's with a D? Yeah, but... My mouth shirt. I mean, as far as what I wear, I'm mostly wearing brands that you've heard of. But what do you like? I mean, Phoebe Philo. There are some small brands. I always screenshot them. I can't think. Tell me about your relationship with Phoebe Philo.

21:48Elissa Santisi:I'm curious. Because of course you love Phoebe Philo.

21:51Lauren:um my relationship with phoebe filo well you know the brand yeah i made some mistakes mostly i i bought like i've bought quite a bit actually like pants jeans like i just bought like the satin t-shirt over the weekend i bought it too you did yeah oh my god you make me feel so good but then in the beginning like i bought the shoes which i didn't i don't like the big wide yeah how it's too wide and i there's certain things i bought a sweater with like this big shoulder and it's just not right on me and i don't know why i bought i kind of get you know salespeople kind of convince me and i shouldn't listen but she often will go and

22:47Francesca Keller:then come back and then go and then come back before making a purchase. Oh, true. That's good. She does write a lot. When we were in L.A., she went to the Drew's Van Noten store. We were there for like four days. Three times. Oh, only because. My dad had to drive her. No, mom. Three times and she didn't get the damn t-shirt.

23:03Lauren:Only because they had this room. I mean, I haven't been there in ages, but with like basics and they had this like really good green color t-shirt. I've been looking for it for years. We've been trying to find it. And I bought a pair of sweatpants. and that's the only reason. I'd come back and I'd buy it and I bought the green t-shirt.

23:25Francesca Keller:No, you didn't get that. Oh, you lost it?

23:27Lauren:I lost it. I lost it.

23:29Francesca Keller:Oh, God. All right. If anyone knows that Dries green t-shirt, my mom would really love it.

23:36Elissa Santisi:I think the Dries Van Noten people sleep on the Dries Van Noten basics because the t-shirts, they're very well priced and I figured it out once because in Paris, I ran into Leandra Medina and she was wearing chinos and I was like, where are those from? She said, oh, Dries. And then that's when I started, that was like my entry into buying Dries, was buying the t-shirts and sweatshirts because the colors are amazing. The make is really good and they're like 150 bucks. They're not crazy.

24:09Lauren:I feel like this was more expensive, but I also have a pair of dark denim jeans that are kind of loose. And, you know, I got them like five years ago and I still wear them. But I'm not like a Dries girl at the same time. I'm not a print person.

24:28Francesca Keller:No, I don't think you own any prints.

24:32Elissa Santisi:Franny, as a... That's not true.

24:36Francesca Keller:You're right. You don't wear them. Anyways.

24:39Elissa Santisi:Growing up and observing this world and you mentioned like your relationship with it in context of your mom, but like as a person who ended up wanting to be a performer, what have you observed about the sort of transformation of media and how does like what is going on TikTok in your point of view have to do with all of that?

25:03Francesca Keller:Well, and I think this has been said so many times, but I do think that these big magazines and all of these people fear young people and need young people because we are now the ones kind of moving culture forward and changing it. And it's like people have to keep up with these trends that are all over the place. And, you know, I go to these random fashion events and I had this thought last night I was at an event and I was just thinking I am sure in your time at Vogue or when you were really big in the industry this room would have looked completely different I mean everyone there is young and and it makes me think all of these events and parties I guess are for young people to stay cool and relevant and I just think that yeah social media kind of runs everything and influencers and the cool young kids run everything as opposed to when just the stylists and the editorial pages told you what was what in fashion so I think that that's how it's changed social media is everything now um and I think it also makes it difficult because of course how many followers do you have whatever you can't get a job they are going with a a photographer with more followers or this and that.

26:36Francesca Keller:And, you know, it's pretty surface level in that way. But I think there's a lot more room for really funny, creative people to get involved in fashion. And I don't think that was happening before. So I do think it's nice to see these creative, cool young people who maybe would never be seen at a fashion, you know, they're not working a fashion job, but personal style is really celebrated, I think, in this day and age. So I think it's cool that people can express themselves and then we can all follow them through that.

27:14Elissa Santisi:Let's talk about how you all started to express yourselves together through this TikTok series. How did it happen? Like, how did Frannie, did you one day just say, like I'm gonna do a video of my mom? Of course not.

27:30Francesca Keller:No. I just pulled my camera out and film her. Well, first of all, what people don't know is she's like hilarious. I mean, she's deadpan humor funny. If she's comfortable with you, this girl is like the funniest person I know. So of course, I want to capture that, but she'll yell at me if I post her because she doesn't want to be seen.

27:55Lauren:I don't know whatever she's not front-facing um it's hard to be funny on you were literally just

28:02Francesca Keller:funny you just are funny but anyways people don't know that she's the funniest person alive so I just film her all the time but then I don't know I guess I just had this idea I don't remember I think it just happened I think I was I moved back from LA and I didn't really know what I was doing with my TikTok and I was starting to do these kind of snarky TikToks filming people's outfits on the streets or poking light fun at hype brands and lines outside. And then I was shopping with her. And I guess I just thought, you know, it is kind of funny, like following a stylist mom shopping. This is a funny experience.

28:43Francesca Keller:Yeah, I didn't think people would become obsessed with it, though. And then when I tell you, it took a very, very long time to convince her to willingly participate in videos. I had to secretly film her most of the time still do. Yeah, she would text me and yell at me. I wouldn't tell her when I was posting it. I'd wait for her to see it because hopefully if it did well, she wouldn't care as much.

29:11Lauren:But it's also better that way if I don't know.

29:14Francesca Keller:It's better if you don't know. Yeah, she participates a little.

29:18Lauren:But I do know.

29:19Francesca Keller:Not when I hide the camera somewhere you can't see it while you're trying on jackets yeah that's true that as someone who doesn't like

29:27Elissa Santisi:the spotlight and also wants their child to be able to express themselves creatively and understands the sort of I assume you get why people are into it um but can I also say I feel

29:44Francesca Keller:like it's not really me expressing myself creatively it's more me wanting her to be known for how amazing she is.

29:53Elissa Santisi:Yeah, I see that.

29:56Francesca Keller:I don't know what to say. Well, because, like, you do like it. It's just hard for you to get you there.

30:03Lauren:Yeah. She likes it. I mean, I'm not a wallflower. It's not like I want to hide all the time. Right. But it's just, I'm just not totally comfortable about it. But I do, it's like I want people to recognize my work or, you know, that kind of thing. But not, you know, the... Not you being silly? TikTok is, it's difficult to look at myself sometimes. And I don't look at the TikTok until... YOLO. I see like a little uptick, maybe a few followers. And then I think, uh-oh, what did she put up? And then I'm like, you're welcome. I mean, I've had her take certain things down.

30:48Francesca Keller:Yeah, which I respect. I take anything she wants to be. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I respect her wishes.

30:54Elissa Santisi:Are you both consumers of TikTok? Like, do you go on there a lot? She is not. She likes Instagram reels.

31:02Lauren:In fact, I thought, like, I wasn't worried about it at first because I thought, well, nobody I know is on TikTok. and then I heard from like and I didn't know I was on it I heard from Liana Satinstein she's like she sent me it and said obsessed like and I was like what and then people started talking to you at shows is that a little sneak and um yeah I ran into some people who were like oh my god and but it but it was about Franny it was more about like she's so funny she's you know

31:37Francesca Keller:I think it's kind of fun to document it through my eyes I guess it is a unique experience because you know I feel very comfortable around her editorial seniors if you will I think those are probably scary people to some but to me I feel very comforted when I see Grace Coddington and people from all of these magazines at a fashion show no I do I feel very comforted and then when I'm around influencers I feel very intimidated and scared so it's comforting being around your people because I'm like oh yeah my mom's friends I've known them since I was a little kid that's fun but I can see it through all the different lens I guess I think it's also a bit

32:23Lauren:like only child oh totally likes hanging around adult parents and adults yeah for sure you know She definitely has an ease with, you know.

32:38Francesca Keller:Yeah, because young people are me and old people were my best audience.

32:44Elissa Santisi:I'm an only child also and I understand. You only want to be with the grownups.

32:50Francesca Keller:Yeah, they were fun.

32:51Lauren:Yeah, she loved a cocktail party.

32:52Francesca Keller:I loved a cocktail. I used to say I would rather go to a cocktail party than a kid's birthday party. But I also never really understood like kids being nasty or me or I just wasn't like that. I was very peaceful. So I think I didn't like the antics I preferred. Yeah, let's get to the real world.

33:14Elissa Santisi:Yeah, get to the point where people just do that behind each other's backs.

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34:57Lauren:See conditions at airfrance.us. The thing is like, obviously you're mother and daughter, but you do have like an amazing

35:08Elissa Santisi:chemistry and appreciation for each other. And I think for me, that's why they're so good, because Franny totally gets why Elisa is so awesome and compelling to people. And Elisa totally gets what Franny's trying to do. And it like shows off both of your talents so well. Has there been like commercial opportunities that have come out of it together? Like, Are people constantly asking to shoot you two for campaigns now and things like that? Like what has what has all the attention brought to your individual careers? Not that much.

35:46Francesca Keller:There's been a few. She usually says no.

35:50Lauren:You know, it's hard to stay relevant in this trying times. There's something coming up that we might do. We might.

35:58Francesca Keller:I usually have to convince her. She hates. But believe it or not, I had to convince her to do the New York Times. article um she's camera shy you know yeah which you shouldn't be but she is you can't change her

36:11Lauren:when i saw the email to come on this show yeah she was like i can't do it and i said come on

36:18Francesca Keller:mommy it's gonna be great she's like i it's like i don't know if i can do it i can't i'm so glad you did it a lot of it is um this is a good one we're both learning through all of this and i I think if anything, it's nice to push her outside of her comfort zone because you've got to just roll with what's happening. You got to say yes. Yeah.

36:40Lauren:I mean, I'm rolling with the punches. No, she is. Basically.

36:44Francesca Keller:I think what's also cool about all the TikToks, just going back to that, is that people do recognize her work, which shocked me. And then I started looking at her old work that I haven't really ever looked at. and I was like wow mom you're doing this like edgy cool stuff whoa you were pretty badass oh my god it's so cool I mean it's what everyone is trying to do now so to me I'm also like we need to all look at her work and just realize it started everything at least when you it's

37:26Elissa Santisi:interesting because it's I did did you all listen to the Harper's Bazaar podcast about the only

37:31Francesca Keller:listen to it recently and I didn't tell you this but I I was part of it yeah I didn't tell you this I started I started sobbing during it you I started I'm yeah I started crying during it because I was just like so amazed to hear hear people talk about your work like that and I didn't You know, like I said, my mom is not she's a very modest person. She's not telling me she's not talking about her work. Yeah, I just started crying. I have like a video of me. I never put it out there, but I just. I don't know. It was really cool to hear people talk about your work. And I guess I just felt really proud.

38:17Lauren:I mean, I was only on for like three minutes.

38:20Francesca Keller:Yeah, and I cried.

38:22Elissa Santisi:but it was it's it was such a it was hugely influential to me in growing I was a teenager during that time and that's why I wanted to be a fashion journalist like I love that magazine and I love the imagery and visual I always knew I wanted to be a writer but like the visuals were so important to me and I'm curious because that stuff is referenced so much and so much of what I write about in line sheet is about the fact that fashion imagery now is so referential. And a lot of it goes back to that era in particular, but there are other eras. And I thought that that Versace campaign, the Stephen Meisel shot one that was referencing the Avedon from 82 was like a great example of referencing.

39:08Elissa Santisi:But there was something on that bizarre, I think Paul, Paul Cavaco probably said it where they were doing a shoot and it was based on a film. And they were like, but we and Paul said, but we had none of us had seen the film in 15 years. So you had to sort of imagine it from your memory because you couldn't like find the film on VHS or whatever. I'm curious as an image maker, at least how you feel about the fact that A, that era and all this work you did is so heavily referenced. and B, how do creative people who make images now not get caught up in the past?

39:47Lauren:I don't know. I mean, back to Bazaar, I knew it was a great place to be. I felt very lucky to be there. I mean, the one thing about Liz is she gave us complete creative freedom and I think that's why it was so great and hired good people. Paul, Tani, Melanie Ward. There's new photographers and Fabian Barone, legend. And yeah, it was the right place at the right time. But I'm sorry, your question was different.

40:28Elissa Santisi:You know, the rule of journalism is don't ask two-part questions, and that's all I've been doing today. But the second part was like, so much of fashion imagery is referencing that era now, especially. But like a lot of eras, it's just all references. It's all references. I've been inundated this season with complaints about the campaigns because they are all like using the same photographers. They look the same from five years ago. Someone made a joke to me. Every campaign now looks like a Ferragamo campaign. You get a pair of shoes and a palazzo and a woman in a floral dress and you're done.

41:03Elissa Santisi:But I think sometimes referencing can really work, but it's different now because the references are so instant that it feels like that era. And I think this is why the Carolyn Bissett show, this is going to run in a couple, a week or two, but the Carolyn Bissett show was so controversial when those first scenes of her looks came out because people have access to the original. And I think it's causing a creative crisis in image making because you just have so much access to know what those iconic images look like. Like you can't, it's not like you have to go to a library to look them up. You can just pull them up on your Instagram.

41:50Elissa Santisi:And I'm curious, from your perspective as an image maker, has it made it harder to make things that feel original or inspired or what have you? Or just your observations of generally of image making, maybe not even in your own work?

42:06Lauren:I don't really reference that era. You know, my references are from Odd. I don't know.

42:13Francesca Keller:just she's always screenshotting the criterion collection films you have so many screenshots of like random movie clothing yeah in your camera maybe french new wave or that those kind of movies or she takes eric pictures of cool people on the street sometimes too oh nice but even like

42:33Lauren:i don't know i it's like the amish or whoever they are the hutterites in montana i mean You know, I have like, or 70s, you know, I reference the 70s a lot. You also reference the 90s so much.

42:55Francesca Keller:Because you were young, you weren't angsty young in the 90s. You were like, what, 40? Yeah. And so when you're in your like 20s, like that was the 70s, 80s. So that makes sense that you reference that because that was your culture.

43:14Lauren:right my studio before queen yeah or yeah in my 20s yeah early 20s anyway are you are you what do you think about the sort of

43:27Elissa Santisi:catalog of work that's coming out now like just overall of fashion imagery and how it's evolved I think there's a lot of, you know, I'm impressed.

43:40Lauren:I'm not, I don't think it looks the same. I think people are pushing boundaries and, you know, there's amazing photographers doing cool pictures. I'm not really saying anything, but I.

43:56Elissa Santisi:No, I think it's having a, it's nice to hear someone who's a veteran in the industry who is still, who feels positive sentiment towards what's happening now. Because so many people of your generation, my generation too, are kind of like, ugh, it's over, it's over, it's over. And it's nice. I think people need to look forward and not harp on the past or what have you. too many people do that.

44:27Lauren:I mean, I think it's just that there's so much out there. That's what it is. Or, you know, trends. Everybody's an expert. And, like, then something that you thought was kind of niche is everywhere. So it's kind of, it gets a little exhausting. Like, things come and go. But, you know, there's always like some designers that will have an actual idea that is different. And, you know, like, I mean, this has been talked about forever. Like, you know, the Versace collection, that you just get very inspired by it. so we're gonna be talking about it for the next six months no i mean i want to shop at the store it is there a new collection i don't know about yeah there there was a it's gone it's it came and went you can buy it now though great it's cool okay so i find out my fashion stuff i actually don't really care about yeah she does i don't care it's okay yeah yeah if i like something i

45:43Francesca Keller:like it but i don't i also never wanted to work in fashion it didn't seem like a very glamorous

45:49Lauren:life to me if she saw me toiling away yeah i was like i do not want to work in fashion i do not

45:56Francesca Keller:want to be a stylist i do not want to have anything to do with fashion i want to be you

46:02Elissa Santisi:have to have a lot of physical strength to be a stylist you're carrying a lot of real

46:07Lauren:yeah i mean doing a shoot is like producing a little movie every time crazy so yeah it's it's it's work but you know if you if you're into it it's all worth it luckily i have zero memories

46:23Francesca Keller:of you well i guess that's when people didn't work from home when they went to the office they worked and they went home they didn't work but you were never on the clock when you were with me growing up so i had really no idea what was going on i don't have any memories of you well

46:38Lauren:like until you were what age there's no cell phones actually that you were till you were like four so that doesn't count yeah but the smartphones came a little later i don't know

46:50Francesca Keller:we always played yeah i have a really fun mom she's really fun still you two are an inspiration

46:57Elissa Santisi:franny are you working on anything right now that you want to share with the fashion people

47:02Francesca Keller:Oh, sure. I started a production company called Girl Pox. And we're doing a bunch of plays. We just produced a short film in L.A. and that's exciting. But our whole thing is we're also producing like parties and events that are very immersive, non-male driven work, super fun stuff, community driven. I think you know it's really expensive to go see theater and plays and if you're not on a PR list you can't get into any parties so we're kind of trying to merge all of that into one thing by doing either plays or like theatrical immersive events that have comedians and fun and cool people and just anything that you know a place where you can make a friend and have a lot of fun and get your picture taken if that's what you're into.

47:56Francesca Keller:But yeah, totally. Yeah, we're just doing a lot of stuff that bring people together because I think that that's important. And I think that in fashion, I think that can be a miss. I think the fashion world's very intimidating. And anyone I knew growing up who wanted to talk to my mom about getting in the world, it seems like a world that you can't touch, that can't be breached in now. it can and it's just an intimidating culture so i think whatever i do whether it's djing or throwing events or plays whatever it is i just want people to feel like it's a space that they're

48:32Elissa Santisi:all a part of and uh and fun yeah well i i think your collaboration together is is illustrative of that is that a word yeah sure just because like your mom is an intimidating person she's so cool

48:51Francesca Keller:and that's crazy to both of us because she is people will say she's she's yeah she's so not because she's not a calculated person at all like you're very you live in the moment i think she's just you're just not you're not like i don't know she's just shy but i love i love to hear it though.

49:11Elissa Santisi:I think what this series has done has like shown a light on her as a as an icon in the industry, but also has shown like this is what a real fashion editor is, which is a mom who is like cool and can be intimidating because she's not like in everybody's face, which can be intimidating, but also as a human being. And so like it's it's been really fun to see that And it does feel very modern to have that sort of exposure to someone. Elisa, do you still have fun doing this stuff and making images and styling and all of that?

49:54Lauren:I still have fun styling, but I, you know, I'm still on the uncomfortable side with the TikTok. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, I'm not doing as much work as I used to. Like, I'm not getting as many jobs as I used to, but it's, it's fine because I, you know, had a long career.

50:19Francesca Keller:She's looking for hire.

50:20Lauren:And I still want to work. I mean, you know, if I was, you know, I'm not dead yet.

50:26Elissa Santisi:So if I was a young New York brand, I would hire you. Oh, that's what I would do.

50:32Francesca Keller:Because what you were really good at. They can't afford you. And you're like, what do you mean?

50:37Elissa Santisi:Maybe they look, they all can afford it. Let's be real. We all know how it actually works. But but I think like you also you had a lot of I think about your work with like Derek Lamb, like things like that. Like, I think you were very influential in ways that people don't even realize it wasn't just editorial shoots.

50:58Lauren:Yeah, he was great to work with.

51:00Elissa Santisi:I love Derek.

51:02Lauren:They're so great. They're the nicest people. They're my friends. Literally in the world.

51:07Elissa Santisi:Shout out to them. Shout out to them. They'll listen. At least Jan will listen to this and tell Derek what we said. I just love the fact that like you all have like brought all these things together in this medium that feels very modern and it shows both of your talents and your dynamic and it's like a modern, it's like a family sitcom. I love it.

51:30Lauren:It's really good.

51:31Elissa Santisi:Thank you for saying that. Thank you both for being here. It was such a pleasure. And for navigating a conversation that went all over the place. Somehow we got through. Right.

51:42Francesca Keller:I think it was great.

51:44Elissa Santisi:It's always fun to do something together.

51:46Francesca Keller:I get very excited about it. So it was really fun.

51:49Elissa Santisi:Thank you. It was fun. Thank you both so much. And congrats. Thanks, Lauren. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gobby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Bob Tabador.

52:42Francesca Keller:Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of$744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.