Neptune Rising

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2:32Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm the chairman writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Daytona Williams, editor-in-chief of Neptune Papers. We're talking fashion and design, the resort show wars, Phoebe Philo's media plan, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. If you're in Biarritz for the Chanel show, hope you're having a wonderful time. Let me know how it is. I've got some text chains going on that I want to hear from the sand floor. I'm heading to New York tomorrow for some puck stuff and hope to catch you at one event or another this week in line sheet we've got some Phoebe Philo intel some Chanel intel and Malik Morris is back with a big story on what's going on at Adidas or as we say in America Adidas Rachel Surgatz also has a fun scoop for Wednesday that you will have to subscribe to to access Until then, let's get going with Daytona.

3:42Daytona Williams, welcome to Fashion People. Hi, Lauren. Thank you for having me. Where are you calling me from? It looks beautiful. So I am actually calling from Saint-Ropé, very glamorous. My husband's parents live here, so we just came down last night for 10 days for a little post-Salone brain rest. Are you going to go to the Chanel show tomorrow? I don't know how close Biarritz and Saint-Tropez are. Unfortunately, it's the other side of the country, so it's a bit far away. Wow, I sound like a real idiot. But we'll definitely have FOMO of not being there. I know, it looks so pretty. I also have a lot of FOMO, but you can't do everything.

4:23You can't do it all. Have you been to Biarritz before? No, obviously not. I haven't been to Saint-Tropez. I've been to Cannes, though. Yeah, it's not far. but um they started they just started the white lotus filming here so i'm on the lookout i heard helena boehm carton's role got cut so trying to see who's demonstrating her with yeah how dare they yeah so um i haven't spotted anyone yet okay well keep an eye out i'm happy to see you i saw you briefly last week at i just salone yeah yeah was this your first salone it was what did you think i've talked about it so much on here i think people are gonna be like yeah but even yeah i'm sick of thinking about it too but i was very overwhelmed i think one thing is i we did a dinner and it was lovely and i'm so glad i did i want to hear about the event that you did because it sounded really lovely too we had an amazing dinner at this restaurant sandy that i really love we had an amazing wine everybody who showed up like a mix of good friends of mine people i really admire like it was an amazing list of people a lot of people who are friends so the tables there were a bunch of different tables but then people could talk shut we did it with shop my who i have mad respect for we write about a lot on the site but they are also just amazing to work on these these dinners with and it was just and i loved my outfit it was the perfect night yeah so you're wearing versace no i was wearing a dario versace looked major suit that I love so much I'm going to try to wear again in New York next week.

6:04So it was a perfect night and I'd say overall the trip was amazing from a shopping perspective. I went to shop the story and I got some bags and I got a beautiful Mew Mew dress. I went to Vera Persiani and got a slip for the first time and some silk pajamas. It was such that was nice. I saw a bunch of people that I haven't seen in forever and got to like sit down and have coffees with people and lunch with people that I wouldn't have had time for. I would say from it's a, first of all, it's a party central. So you have to be like ready to really go out. And then also I just didn't feel like I had enough time to do everything.

6:45Like I wanted to come to your event and I just, it was like, I went on Monday night, I went to Gucci and I went to their mes dinner. I was supposed to go to another dinner. I had to cancel cause I had to go work. No, but there was so much going on. Even as I had to leave my event before the end to go to the Ralph Lauren dinner also. It's like a double-edged sword. It's like, do we do something and then not have a presence, even though we are a design magazine? Or do we do something and know that three other people are doing something the same evening? You know, I think what's nice with Salone versus Fashion Week is people will pop by.

7:18Like we had a great group of American interior designers. We had great press, blah, blah. They stop by 30 minutes for a drink and they go into something else, you know? Yeah, and yours was at the new... The Giacomo space, yeah. Giacomo space. So is it a new bar that they're doing? Yeah. And explain what this like restaurant group is for people who aren't familiar. Giacomo is a Milanese restaurant group that I think is about 100 years old. And it's really like a family-owned trattoria. So you have two spaces. Well, it was family-owned. It just got bought about a year ago. so it's like a historical milanese um trattoria and then on the corner it's fish based and then you have the bistro and then down the block you have the rotisserie which is like they do a great roast chicken salad with some potatoes and some green beans and then across the street they bought what's called the tabacaria so it's like a tiny little bar that's painted i call it mushy pea the color inside um but it's really beautiful so they invited us to a cocktail there last year we had taken over the oldest gelato and store in milan and done gelato and champagne for the evening um which was lovely but again the night that we did it wall street journal we're doing something ld core we're doing something so you just have to throw your hat in the bucket was that night too yeah it was a lot but but yeah but i'm i'm sad that i'm i missed yours especially because it was at that new space that i haven't been to but yeah i think like i wrote a little thing on Tuesday there's an opportunity for any brand that media brand that has some sort of design world adjacency or for me it was like we do these dinners with fashion industry insiders and there were a couple design world people too that friends helped me sort of say who would be interested in meeting more fashion industry people but I thought for me it was like a good moment to those people are invited to dinners and things, but maybe just like see some of their friends.

9:16But yeah, tell me more. Let's talk more now about Neptune. And you've been doing it for several years now, but what has it turned into? And where do you feel like it fits in the interiors conversation? Is there my friend, our friend Alice Kavanaugh just wrote a great piece for the times, I believe, that I think Neptune was in, right? Yeah, totally. So Neptune was actually my COVID project to start off with. I used to be in charge of women's web buying for a department store in Paris when Galer Lafayette opened their outpost in the Champs -Élysées, which is seven or eight years ago now. And then that was a great job, loved it.

9:55But then obviously during the pandemic, a department store was the crazy place to work. So I thought, you know what? If it's the end of the world, I have to do a magazine. I've wanted to do a magazine since I'm like three years old. I grew up watching, I mean, very timely, but like Devil Wears Prada, Ugly Betty, 13 Going 30. Shout out to 13 Going on 30. I love it. Actually, you know, I have it on my phone. And yeah, I love to watch it on a plane. It's just such a comfort movie. But yes, I started the first issue during the pandemic. Talk about, didn't tell anybody I was doing it. I thought it was so cringe and embarrassing.

10:27I had major imposter syndrome. But the first issue, we had a profile of Vanessa Friedman. We had Eli from ERL. We had Simone Rocha. The first one was much more fashion adjacent because that was my background. And then slowly, it really steered into this interiors art with a touch of fashion. And a lot of the interiors we do are fashion adjacent. For example, one of our covers for our new issue that's launching in two weeks, one of our covers is Martin Brule, who's the interior designer. He's actually designing the set for the Chanel show that's happening tomorrow. and he designed, he created a show for Alaya in New York with these Andy Warhol Polaroids.

11:05He did the set for the Vanity Fair Oscar party in the red carpet also. So he's like very fashion Jason. And now, so yeah, so this is issue 10 that we bring out and they've been getting bigger and bigger. So our new issue is 468 pages, which is about 1.5 kilos. But what's been really great is that I think now we're really in this space where, as you said, And interiors brands and fashion brands are converging. You know, so I think now we have this consumer slowdown on the fashion market for a lot of brands. So I think they're kind of saying, how do we engage with a new type of customer that's outside of the fashion world?

11:42And if for someone it's no problem to spend 100 ,000 euros on a couch, ultimately they can buy a Miu Miu bag for nothing. You know what I mean? So there's this thing of all these brands are now looking to develop their art world audience, their interiors audience. So I think we are lucky, touch wood, we're at a great kind of convergence of these two worlds, you know? yeah it's interesting because there's there's also kelsey keith and i were talking about this on the sort of very design last monday's episode which was very design week focused but there's like this hollowing out of the middle everywhere and so there's also kelsey works at at miller knoll which has like design within reach and in america at least like people are either spending like you said a hundred grand on a couch or they're kind of cringing at spending 10 totally yeah so it's like you have room and board or you have custom and there's not really there aren't that many people willing to spend in between on like a boralec rug or whatever like like my family does um but i think like it makes a lot of sense for the fashion brands and looking back on friday i wrote about this and i had some people message about it but But I felt like the fashion brands that really succeed there are the ones that are doing stuff that feels really germane to design.

13:09And it doesn't necessarily mean, like, of course, Prada Miu Miu are good at it. They are good at thinking and they are the center of Milan in so many ways. So the fact that they had two sets of different kind of series of conversations, like, I wish I could have just gone to those for five days. Yeah, totally. And not. And then also there was something that Michael Bargo did with Yves Solomon that I was like, can you talk about it a little bit? Because I thought that was amazing. And I didn't go because I was like, well, this is going to be random. And then it was actually amazing. Yeah, it was major.

13:45So Yves Saint-Amour, for those who don't know, is a historical fur company based out of Paris that's about 100 years old. Now I think it's the third generation of the family. And as you can imagine, the fur business has kind of went down the toilet. So they started, I think, maybe three years ago now. How can they reposition themselves? They had started a few years ago this line called Army, which was supposed to be like parkers and outerwear that didn't really go anywhere. Well, I did own one and buy one and sold it for a profit at some point. They gifted them and I bought it. But then they went up in price so much that I was able to sell it for a profit.

14:22Like five years later, it was an amazing journey. Okay, that's a good purchase. Amazing journey. Yeah. But so Michael, this year they invited, last year they did with an illustrator in Paris called Pierre-Marie, who actually does a lot of illustrations for Hermes scarves. And then he has his own practice on the side. and this year they invited Michael to come and reinvent kind of the American quilt, the American blanket, but in fur. So you had these amazing red and black patchwork, chinchilla, I think it is, blankets. He reimagined Frank Lloyd Wright chairs in fur also. And that was really, that was one of the highlights of Milan.

14:57He also did a party on the Monday night in the apartment it was presented in, but the police showed up after like 30 minutes and shut it down. Yeah, that was the, on Monday everyone was saying, oh are you going to Michael's later? Are you going to Michael's? We were wrapping up dinner and we were getting text messages. The cops just showed up. They kicked everyone out. Because it was also the apartment that they did it in was designed by one of the students of Gio Ponte in a very residential neighborhood. I think everyone in the building is like 95 years old. So we're thinking who are all these Americans coming in and speaking too loud.

15:29Now I'm feeling extreme FOMO. Yeah. I didn't go to anything on. Again, I went to the Cermes dinner and then I was like I have so much work, I cannot go out. There were like seven parties I wanted to go to. The thing is, you're always going to have FOMO about something. Did you go to the Laura Piano presentation? I did. I thought that was very beautiful. Yeah, that was really beautiful. And also the first ones when you came in, they were like little people skiing and stuff like that. Very fresh, I thought it was. Yeah, I went to, everybody's heard this already, but I went to the Domore Studio, their furniture line.

16:06they had their furniture in that old apartment is it orsani borsani um yeah whatever i've talked about this a million times anyone so it's so it but it was amazing and i also went and i went to the trianale and went to see the bronzy exhibit and that was amazing so i got to see some cool stuff i think next time i will i came a little early i think i'll i'll come on sunday next time and stay the whole week. Yeah. And then be able to go to exhibitions and stuff on Thursday and Friday when it chills out. That's good enough. But honestly, it was, I was just talking to a French fashion journalist about it today and she was like, should I have gone?

16:48I said, sort of. But there wasn't like a lot of chatter about the fashion industry, which I was surprised by. I kept asking other, I was like, what are people talking about? They're like, not anything you want to hear. not where who's buying Giorgio Armani. No, completely. People want to speak about, like, that's the thing. Also, I went to Salone from Sunday to Wednesday. By Wednesday, I was happy to get out of there. You see people, you're like, oh, so when did you get in? How long are you staying? I don't care, to be honest, but it's that small talk that you get into. I think Salone is fab, but it's also every year I'm like, do I ever need to go back again?

17:25Who knows? Yeah. Yeah, we'll see.

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19:03now we're moving on and tomorrow is the chanel show well tuesday today because this is gonna publish on tuesday is the chanel show and then the met is like in five days it's just there's a lot i'm leaving on wednesday for new york for we're doing some dinners around met time and all that stuff and there's also the gucci show next year next week it's um it's after it's the 17th I'm not staying. I'm coming back. There's basically, there is Met and then Dior, I think is the 13th. And then Gucci and then Louis Vuitton. But there's also Max Mara in Shanghai or something. Oh my God. And maybe Dior is the 12th.

19:49I don't remember. It's too many things. But no, I'm not going to anything. I'm going to go to Hermes in June because it's in LA and I would like to go home and get some stuff in my house. But the thing is, I'm curious what you think. It's very interesting because I've never, every once in a while, go to a resort show. I don't accept press trips. So if I go, we pay for it. I usually stay at a hotel nearby or get the rate that the brand has at the hotel. And I pay for my own flight and all that stuff. If there's a news element. So when Salvador de Sarno did the London show, I went because I was like, I can do a bunch of meetings around this.

20:31I haven't been to London in forever. And this is his first resort show and it was so precarious. I feel like I could make an excuse to go to every single one of these shows other than Louis Vuitton. Even Bieritz. I don't know what meeting you would do in Bieritz, but you could speak to someone. Well, I mean, it would just to be at the show because it's Matu's first resort and it's going to be major. Yeah, that I have major FOMO. it's gonna be exactly so major and the same thing with jonathan at lacma like yeah that's really important lacma is really gonna transform la it's uh so but have you seen photos of those new galleries yes yeah it looks beautiful it looks amazing and i've heard nothing but you know and i'm a huge fan of michael govan and katherine ross so who is maybe the most katherine is maybe the most mentioned person on Fashion People.

21:27She really needs to come on. But the point being that like, these are not shows that should be reviewed. Like these are, Fritzie, I'm on a call. You need to leave. These are not shows that should be reviewed. They should be, they're just, they're commercial shows for clients. And content. These are gonna be, they are going to be picked apart in the internet. I'm just curious what you think about that. as a person who was a buyer for a long time and a customer in a way. And then also now, Fritzie, you need to leave. Fritzie, now out. Sorry, my kid is. It's later. These shows are going to be picked apart on the internet and I'm not looking forward to it.

22:14And look, these are all, maybe not Hermes and maybe Nadege is going to, it will be, you know, no one's going to be like, dissecting each of her collections, although her couture is coming up and there's going to be a spotlight on her. But especially Gucci, Chanel, and Dior, Vuitton a little less, but also everybody's like, how much longer is Nicola going to be there? All that stuff. I'm just curious, from your perch as a magazine editor and as someone who took these in from a buyer's perspective for a long time, what do you think of the fact that these are now as big of events is like the ready-to-wear-on couture.

22:53Well, you know, I think, actually, I think you've said it in your newsletter how Mathieu's last show didn't translate in photos and didn't translate online. The fabrics, the materials, the embroidery, and I think that is the thing. It's like, I mean, even I see it when I do the layout for the magazine also, so I'm looking at something on my screen, brightness, full gloss, and then you see it in person in print, and it looks so different, you know? And I think that that's the same thing with these collections. We're seeing everything through a screen, and then when you see them, you're like, oh wait she didn't realize it was trompe-l 'oeil embroideries i didn't realize it was this and i think we've now got into this thing it's like i think it's great that everybody has an opinion but not every opinion is valid you know what i mean um maybe that's not maybe not the right way to say it but you know it's like i think that everything gets ripped apart online straight away even for example the new devil was product i must have seen 47 different trailers for this film before it came out i don't even want to see it anymore you know and even the I just think there's so much stuff.

23:51Dreading it. Dreading it. I'm not going to go see it. I don't think I'm going to go see it. I just feel as though I owe it to my 14-year-old self to go see it. I was not into that movie. No offense to anybody involved. I think it's a good movie. I just did not care at the time. And I was much more into 13 going on 30. Oh, yeah. I mean, that is the OG. Well, it also is extremely real. It feels extremely realistic in its own way, too. but uh but no for the for the resort collections i mean i think for me it's like for example jonathan's do your took a minute to grow on me and then i saw it in person and i was like okay i get it you know i get the pleading i get the embroidery i get this and for example demner's gucci i didn't that i did not get that collection it's not my vibe it's not my aesthetic i haven't seen it in person yet but i just think that the show now for a brand they get so much content out of a show they get so much peripheral aura out of it that everything has became so big that it's kind of how do you then differentiate the couture the ready-to-wear the pre-collections what is the main attraction if everything's the main attraction what actually is yeah it's a really good question and and yeah over the last couple of seasons there have been times when chanel looked better in person and not as good online and look better online and not as you know and dior same thing Like I thought that the Dior Couture looked amazing in photos.

25:20I thought that the Dior, the recent Dior ready wear looked amazing in person. Like the Dior Couture looked amazing in person too, but like really popped in photos. So you do need that thing. I think it's good that people are such enthusiasts and especially consumers of this stuff are just obsessed with it and they want to talk about it. And that's exciting, but it can be a little overwhelming and exhausting. There is. I'm also, I'm a big TikTok user. I love TikTok. But there's one comment that comes back all the time that I see on fashion content. And it says, this looks like Zara. This could be Zara.

25:56And they always use that as an example. And it's like, did you guys go into like a Chanel store, a duo store 15 years ago? This is what it was. People always say like, oh, like RIP Carl, bring back Carl. I love Carl. A lot of Carl's shows were a train wreck. You know what I mean? Not everything was the gag that people think it is with nostalgia. I love what Matthew is doing. And I don't think that every single outfit and every single piece needs to be the statement of the year. You know, it's like you look at a brand like Alexander McQueen, where they're really trying to go and the commerciality is not necessarily there.

26:32That business is going nowhere. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not everything can be made for Instagram and not everything can be made for TikTok. Not everything is made to be consumed via a screen as like a gaggy moment.

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27:21Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Let's talk about someone who doesn't show at Fashion Week, at least not yet. Phoebe Philo. So I have a piece in Monday's issue about she is launching a shop and shop at bloomingdale's which i think is super interesting for bloomingdale's huge get congrats congrats to them i heard congrats to them yeah i heard this like six months ago and they did it and wow like it's really amazing and basically the pieces about like her distribution strategy but also about her media strategy so last week someone in that world was like, did you see our advertisement in the erotic review?

28:13And I was like, actually I did because Max Ligram, Phoebe's business partner and husband and whatever, you know, he posted a bunch of stuff. And I thought, oh, that's really interesting. I didn't know anything about the erotic review. Shockingly, I'm such a big fan of Phil Picardi's Playboy. But someone sent it to me and it's it's a literary an arts journal about sex but like in a very tasteful way and and very modern like post-modern or whatever i thought it's really interesting i would buy it like i buy magazines all the time yeah but the advertising that they did is incredible so it's like the latest campaign you know the girl on the bike and that kind of scene from the recent drop that's already out but it's like a pull out and it's essentially the centerfold and there's a poster that i have did we hang it up yet um oh here i'm just gonna grab it that's really cool so it's like a centerfold and i love that they were the only i love it they were the only advertising partner i don't know what else they advertised and i know they are in double magazine but she's has a relationship with the editor in chief of doubles so like that makes sounds i know that dublin was the first that they advertised in the first that they advertised in but um it's kind of like in the 90s how malang used to advertise in national geographic and i think and i think that it's a very cool um i mean one it's a communication opportunity because then people speak about it but um i think i think it's major that they did that it's kind of like how the row also the row now this season i'm sure you might have seen it but they're really rolling out, quote unquote, advertising strategies.

29:58So they were in Emily Moore, T Magazine, Financial Times. I saw them somewhere else. So they've really kind of stepped it up. But before the row would also just advertise in very niche little publications. And I think that the fact that Phoebe, she sponsored this show with Peter Doig in London a few months ago. I think that that's such a smart way of her to do it. Because ultimately, even though everybody speaks, Vogue definitely is still part of the conversation in the going-ons of the magazine the actual content itself people i don't know i don't know if someone who's going out and buying a phoebe philo jacket is going out and saying i saw this in vogue so i want to buy it you know they're definitely not reading vogue completely no offense to anyone it's not it's not like but it was interesting i went to this um peter doig show here in Paris at the the like Corbusier house no yes yeah yeah and there was a woman in head to toe Phoebe and I was like I she I wonder if she got like she how who she's connected to that that definitely worked either for Peter Doiger for the the house or whatever I was it was interesting but yeah and I was really sad to miss that show like it was just I tried to go like I tried to figure out a trip to London to be able to go but I thought it was and they did it it was the serpentine I thought it was really smart but yeah it's like you're doing really well and and there but it's it's an interesting mix of let's distribute we they don't have a physical retail yet they will soon but like let's distribute as much as we can to get it to as many people but then when we do media a let's use our own platform yeah so herb images are shared everywhere like It's wild how well they've utilized Instagram.