New York, It’s a Wonderful (Shopping) Town

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, right of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is fashion journalist, Max Berlinger. We're talking the Proenza guys at Loewe, the Nike opportunity and queuing up at Pantone. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you had a great weekend. It's beautiful here in LA. It's not always beautiful, I swear, but it's really nice this week. And I am heading out tonight to attend a party at the Chateau Marmont for Kim Haystrider, her book Stuff. Kim curated a very good show in relation to the book at Jeffrey Deitch in New York.

0:47They're very good, close friends. And I was lucky enough to catch it on my last show. It was super fab. I hope she brings it out here. Maybe she is, and I just don't know. Who knows? Anyway, Kim seems to be out and about all week. So if you happen to be in town for design space and all that stuff, please don't hesitate to also come down to the Pacific design center on Saturday, March 30th at 1 PM, or is it no it's March 29th at 1 PM, where I'll be taping an episode of fashion people with Jesse Lee, the guy behind design space, which is an art and design fair where you can buy stuff, but also the guy behind design Miami.

1:28If you've been to our Basel, you've probably gone to Design Miami and also Basic Space, which is the e-commerce site that's connected to it all. Jesse's been on the pod before, and this time we're going to drill down on this theory he has that has sort of become his tagline, which is design is the new luxury. It may sound like a little hokey, but it's true. The thing is, it's true. And so I love that he's building a whole brand around it. And so if you're interested in attending, hit me up on Lauren at Puck.News and I'll put you in touch with the team or just visit designspace.la to register. Jesse also has a lot of opinions about designers and which designers should design at which house.

2:09So if you're into designer musical chairs, we'll talk about that as well. Speaking of designer musical chairs, this week on Line Sheet, we are busy as usual. On Monday, I talk about the Loewe Proenza stuff that Max and I are going to get into as well. I guess I can't really say that anymore because Jack McCullough and Lazaro Hernandez no longer work at Proenza Schooler. They are on the board, but they are solely the designers of Loewe. They start April 7th. So congrats to them. Again, Max and I get more into that. And on Monday, online sheet, I provided all the crucial updates for the future of Saks Global that I know.

2:47And as you probably know too, as of January, 2025, Saks Global included Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus, and Bergdorf Goodman. So there's lots to talk about. Check that out. Today, Sarah Shapiro is back with all you ever needed to know about L.L. Bean, the greatest American brand or the biggest American missed opportunity. There is like tons of interesting stuff happening at that company that no one knows about. They're private, but also no one ever bothers asking. And Sarah dug into it. And you'll be fascinated by the sort of corporate drama around the boat tote and the duck boot. It's an awesome story.

3:24you should check it out anyway. Hope you enjoy this time I have with Max.

3:30Max Berlinger, welcome to Fashion People. Thanks so much for having me. Long time listener, first time caller. I'm shocked that you haven't been on before. I'm so glad to get you in the rotation. I'm happy to be here. I've been waiting, just twiddling my thumbs out. I'm sure. I'm sure. How was your weekend? Did you go to the Printemps store opening? I did. I went on Thursday and it was fab. And I was gonna go over the weekend to sort of see it because it was only sort of half merchandised for the opening party. Interesting. What do you mean by that? A lot of the racks felt very sparse and the beauty section was basically empty and there was like food and displays and stuff in that area.

4:13So I wanted to sort of see it full customer were facing ready. But a friend of mine told me that there was lines to get in, which bodes well. So I was sort of like, I'll skip and go during the week sometime. Yeah. I also heard I got a lot of thanks to all the readers who sent messages that and and not just Gen Z kids. Like it was like adults waiting in line this weekend. Oh, cool. Yeah. I mean, the store itself is very beautiful. They've done a really wonderful job with it. But, you know, I think that area has a rocky relationship with department stores. Yeah, it's interesting. So the POC offices are a three-minute walk from one Wall Street.

5:01So Prontemp is, for anyone listening who doesn't live in New York or LA or Paris or London, is a big department store in Paris on the right bank and is beautiful and one of these old-school Paris department stores. And they used to be owned by the Pinot family when it was, when they're the holding company that's now called caring was called PPR. Prontemp was one of the P's. I think it was Prontemp Pinot Redoute for La Redoute, this weird catalog, not weird, but like a catalog. Sorry. I don't want to offend anyone, but, um, and then they sold it to God. I, I don't remember, But then whoever owned it between the Pinos and now and someone else.

5:53And then in 2013, they sold it to like in Qatari and Amir, like situation, like give the Qatari royal family adjacent. And they've owned it since 2013. And apparently someone messaged me and I'm not going to have time to fact check this. I don't think, but that Promptop actually had a store in Denver in the 80s. Okay. A friend of mine who lives in Paris now. Let's look it up. I don't know if it's true. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. In Denver, Promptop opens its first American branch store. Okay. How long did it last? Well, that's going to take too much research. Right, right. But this is from the New York Times, 1987 by Diane Zalowski.

6:42Oh, D-Y-A-N. I love this name. Diane Zalowski. Yeah, she's definitely from Denver. Really interesting. But they have been planning this Wall Street store for quite some time. And Jean-Marc, who's the CEO, then Laura, who's the U.S. CEO, they've been putting this together, I think, since pre-pandemic. Yeah. It was the plan. people were thrilled and it was like a lot of French people were there and it was very that and it was um the architecture was stunning because a lot of it is landmark so the shoe room is like mosaics and it's just really soaring ceilings but you couldn't touch any of the walls so everything's sort of like these uh really cool sculptural stands for the shoes in the center of the uh space and it's really cool I I would say the my favorite part was they have like a real occasion wear sort of room that had a lot of vintage YSL, like really cool 70s vintage YSL that people were really freaking out about.

7:43But then they also had these mannequins higher up that had the most recent Gaultier couture collection. It just felt cool. You're like, yeah, everything's so casual nowadays. It was cool to see like a real salon for occasion wear. Yeah, that's amazing. I went during New York Fashion Week and with a hard hat and saw everything. And the shoe room is incredible. It's this mosaic tile from the thirties. Right. That, and it was landmarked a few years ago. It's black and red. And I was just blown away. Like it's good. And it was like a bank before. So it's like, it had like beautiful, you know, it has like a very 1980s bonfire of the vanities five, which I love.

8:23And Laura Gonzalez who did the interiors. It is everyone. If you haven't looked at the store, you need to go and just Google it because it is, it's wacko. Like it's wacko in the best way possible. It's just absolutely insane. But that's interesting because I didn't get to see it merchandise. I saw the sort of bare bones and the interiors were so incredible, like the changing rooms and everything. But I love this idea. The beauty space was really cool. Oh, nice. There's like a white beauty space and they have little pods for, I don't know, facials and massages. Yeah. Well, it's definitely, and I I think the restaurant and the coffee shop and all that, when you mentioned down there, so Saks used to be, is Saks still in Hudson Yards or?

9:06No, they closed. Did you go to that opening? I just, I was talking about that. Yes, I did. I will also, no, the Neiman Marcus was the one in Hudson Yards, right? Yes, I definitely went to that. Is the Saks down at, what's that? World Trade or whatever, on the other side. Yeah, I mean, their corporate offices are down there. sax what's the san ambrose is in that building too yeah i don't know it's like i i don't know it's like the amex is like above it right and there was like the it always looked like a like a middle eastern mall to me and it had that big food court that all the kind of brookfield brookfield yes yes yeah i that san ambrose is great like that's a big stop i've gone there with people who work out of brookfield is the sax still in brookfield i don't think so i think it closed closed and then there was the Corsacomo also opened down there but closed as well yeah um so it's hard it's not easy here's why I think the one Wall Street location is good for Prontemp look here let's caveat with opening a department store in 2025 right yes which another a second caveat is that Prontemp says it's not a department store that's what all marketing says.

10:26So it's not a department. I mean, it's 55 ,000 square feet. It does feel, it's not comprehensive. It's like they have a beauty section. They have a really nice fine jewelry section. They have a lot of F and B food and beverage is the main driver. But I would say generally like it's a challenge anywhere. Nordstrom opened in New York city in 2013. And that's been challenging too, even though it's in on 57th street in the middle of everything. So you have lots of foot traffic and, and the Brookfield place of it all that all was opened right before the pandemic. That's really challenging. And also it's on the West side by the water.

11:06So unless you live down there, it's going to, it's not going to be a place you're going to want to go to on a regular basis. That said, so one wall street, the reason I think that it's interesting is a, it's not a comprehensive store. So like you're not going there to buy tights or whatever. That could be a detractor. Maybe you are. But on the other hand,

11:34it's more of a destination because the interiors are so incredible. And so you have to go see it. It's kind of like Dover Street Market where you go there, basically treat it like an art. I treat it like an art gallery in a way. I'm like, I just need to go to Dover Street in whatever city I'm in just to see what they have. and see the art. Yeah. And so it feels like that. The other thing is there is a lot of tourist flow from all the like 9-11 stuff. And then also from the wall street of it all. So you get that tourist flow. And then there are just like a ton of art galleries and office spaces and a lot of people who live down there, because especially in the 2010s, that became a destination because it wasn't that expensive to rent a really nice apartment in financial districts.

12:29So I think that all combo. I know when I'm in the offices in New York, I go to Odeon like seven times a week. I was there for 10 days during Fashion Week. I also stayed near there, but I just kept going there because there isn't anywhere else to go eat. Right. So I think in that way, it's going to become there's no boo, but but it's probably going to become like an F &B destination for people who work from down there or live down there. Right. And there's that WSA building sort of nearby. So that could like bring a whole little fashion crowd over from over there to like pop over for a coffee or whatnot.

13:10Yeah. Yes, exactly. How often are you in the WSA building? Often, like often enough. or street associates yeah it's funny how it became the the hot building the cool building or whatever but yeah i mean especially during fashion week it feels like everything but also furniture like a lot of like designing furniture fairs are doing stuff there and i mean you know it's more often than not you see like on an invite these days that they're having it so will you as just a consumer go to the Prontem to like check it out once you've done your you know duty as a fashion journalist who covers the city of New York what will you go down there do you think you and your partner are you guys married?

14:02you and your guy are you guys going to go there on like a Saturday afternoon in. Yes. Oh, yes. I think that's like part. I think, you know, like you, I know that you're a prolific shopper, I'll say, but I like to shop and that's part of the job. And that's like the fun part of the job is to keep checking in, keep seeing what people are buying, what people are putting out, how it's different than what other, you know, what Nordstrom's is doing, what, you know, there's a lot of cool, small independent brands or stores in New York right now. And it's like, yeah, so what can this bring to the mix that a Venn space could not or a Nordstrom Uptown cannot.

14:42I agree. I had a friend of mine text me that they dropped several thousand dollars at Ben space and just had the best time ever. Baby people are I go often because it's a 10 minute walk for me. Nice. I go often and I go on weird times because I'm a freelancer like a Thursday at two. Yeah. There are guys and they are trying things on. They are buying things. It is it's happening next time i'm in town i gotta go you haven't been no i feel really bad i know dan my husband has been and was convinced to buy shoes there of course yes the shoe selection is amazing those trees shoot those trees like really like sleek sneakers there's like a million of them and i feel like they just like fly off the shelves but it's yeah i mean he has a great selection of stuff really cool special stuff and that part of brownstone brooklyn it's like creative you know all those like Williamsburg creative directors are now dads living down in this area and they have$2 ,500 for their winter coat or like you know$1 ,200 for a shoe what's the cross street it's so it's right off of Carroll Park so it's oh wow I think it's Carroll and it's like Carroll and Smith or Carroll and between it's like no it's Carroll and Court yeah and it's on a corner So it's by the coffee shop.

16:01The coffee shop. And what's that place where they make the like griddle cakes that I forget. Whatever. I lived on third between Clinton and court for many years. I think that's where the owner, Chris, is very like, he's like, I live around the corner. You know, his wife is, I believe, the U.S. president of Totem. So they're like this little fashion power couple. So fun. Yeah. Maybe they'll do a women's version. That would be cool. Well, so the, have you been to, I forget what it's called on Atlantic Outline. Yes. So Chris has said that, you know, Chris worked at, um, Needs Supply and Totokayo.

16:36With one of those gals. Yeah. So she sort of has the, and the outline. Have you been there? Yeah. I love outline. It's great. They are doing a really good job. Yeah. I understand it's complimentary. It works. I've asked him, I said, yeah, is this going to be like a women's thing? And he's like, no, I think like men's is my thing. And like, yeah, the women's is handled beautifully up i think there's something about um i chcm i'm obsessed with and in the same way that i shop at la garçon a lot but like there's something about chcm that and i feel like their complement the two are sort of oh that's interesting and la garçon also carries men's but i think if you're if if you're in manhattan louisa b aroma right across from chcm is actually awesome also and i highly recommend i think they have really good good stuff yeah they have a very good buy it's i would have never gone in there but i went because they had the phoebe filo stuff and they have a great buy for women um and they also have like a fancy dress room as well um but what i would say is i'd say la garcon sort of the complimentary one to chcm interesting if you want to say then space and then outline i think because i shop at the other two they're not as exciting to me in some ways because i'm like why can't it just be like this why can't i go in and it feel like this but they probably are and and you know maybe a guy would feel feel the opposite but you know what i think all all of these ladies stores at least are going to sell and maybe some of the men's is the new new Loewe.

18:14Oh, yeah, probably.

18:22So this morning after months, I reported in January. I was trying to find the original time you wrote about it. And I was like, I can't even find it's like so deep. It was January 7th or January. Yeah. Because it was, it was right around not to be depressing, but it was right around the fires here. I wrote it the weekend that I was in, um, that, that I was in Palm Springs escaping Los Angeles. Um, try, I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I can work. I have this great scoop it's okay it did distract me um thank god for disney plus but so yeah i reported it on that jack mccullough and lazaro hernandez the founders of proenza schooler were going to be the new creative directors i believe i it was january 13th that i ran it yeah yeah around there and of Loewe replacing Jonathan Anderson, who's off to Dior.

19:33There have been setbacks in announcing it. Jack and Lazaro were able to announce that they were leaving Proenza, which they are still going to be on the board, but they were, I don't know if they were allowed, but they decided to say that they were leaving the brand, but it was not possible for whatever reason. And someday maybe I'll figure out what happened behind the scenes. It was not possible for them to announce that they were going to Loewe. But last week, Jonathan Anderson finally was able to announce. I mean, maybe he didn't care. We were all like, just say it, that he was leaving Loewe.

20:12I thought that the last collection that he and the studio worked on together, he did post the collection. So I am sure he had input on it. It was really beautiful that they showed in Paris a couple of weeks ago. but he was able to say that he was leaving. I had heard that they were going to wait two weeks to announce Jack and Lazaro, but they only waited a week. And this morning the news came out that Jack and Lazaro are headed to Loewe and they're, they officially start April 7th, but look like we know that there's stuff's been going on behind the scenes. And also menswear, which is exciting for me.

20:46Yes. You know, they women's men's and all accessories. So yeah, it'd be cool for them. So what do you think about it as someone who's been writing about them forever and following their career and also following Loewe and the trajectory of that brand under Jonathan? Right. Well, I would say I'm excited to see an American duo go to Europe. It's been like, you know, it's a cool moment to have this very New York, iconic New York brand go and have their designers go there. But I was just like looking through their last few collections this morning and just thinking it's exciting. I will say it does feel a little Jonathan Anderson, the WebAE, but everything is kind of like in that vein these days.

21:30But, you know, but, you know, I'm just excited. I'm I would say I'm an optimist and I always am like just I try to sort of go into these partnerships open minded. And I can't wait to see the first collection and see where they land. I agree. I was thinking I need to be more antagonistic on these podcasts, but I can't. Why? I don't know, because I feel like I push back a lot in my writing, but when on the podcast, I'm like, yeah, I agree with you. But I do agree. I think, look, here are the things. One is that, well, no, I'm not going to, because I am fully rooting for them for the same reasons you just said.

22:10And also a couple of things. One is that Loewe is on an upward trajectory. It's one of two brands maybe at LVMH right now that is feeling good. Laura Piana is like killing it. Loewe still has good traction. Right. The bags, like the fact that they have been able to create bags, and there aren't really bags anymore, but the bags in the market that look different and that are really hard to knock off is tremendously, it's incredible. So it's on an upward trajectory. Pascal is the CEO, has an amazing reputation. She's a really good merchant. And Jonathan Anderson could have stayed there for another 10 years and it would have kept working.

23:01And it was in T Magazine, he said something about it being about a$2 billion business. you know it could get to five billion it could have gotten to five billion with him so the fact that he decided to leave because he is an ambitious person who wants to challenge himself in a million different ways i get why they don't want to scrap it because some of these brands you need to scrap it givanchi you need to scrap it there are things that like just feel so stayed or just never really worked and you need to just start from day one and use the infrastructure to build it up fast this you don't need to do that and i think what what jack and lazaro represent and and i have written so many big articles about them about their business troubles about their potential as designers about all of this stuff and like when they started out they were first of all their work felt really original and felt like nothing else julie gilhart famously bought it their collection for Barney's.

24:09Anna was a huge champion. Anna helped make them. And they were young and sexy and cool. They were cool dudes. Yeah, but the challenge was that they really were... A lot of pressure was put on them really fast. They were... They raised up a ton of money four years into the business. It was just insane. They were already being put like considered to the successes for Valentino and they were like 25 years old. It's just so crazy. And they, and they represented so much. And there was the weight of the American fashion industry sat on these two guys' shoulders. And look, they, they were very successful.

24:52They had a lot of, they got a lot in return, but I would say creatively it stalled them because, Because, you know, there's, and you all can Google this stuff. They have the PS1, this it bag, which I think is destined for a comeback now. But it sort of took over their business. It allowed them to raise even more money. The money wasn't the right kind of money. And they just, they were really challenged financially. And they never got to kind of let their creative minds. The whole thing is that they are legit. they are legit they are legit but they weren't given a chance to really be legit because of the fact that um they had all this they were small business owners and so look like working at a company a two billion dollar in sales business is a lot of infrastructure with a place like a big marketing team a big yeah it's minds there in some ways it's more pressure and it's harder you have a bigger team to manage and all that stuff but in other ways it's going to be not easier but just a different kind of challenge and work their brains in a different way and so totally i'm i'm really happy for them and also right like i don't know they just have i i feel i'm i've i don't know it's just you they've been around you know you've mentioned this a few times that we're the same age and it's like they mean a lot to me a person of my age 42 years old they yeah like sort of were had this explosive growth trajectory when I was like first getting into fashion, getting my feet wet, and we've seen them grow.

26:30And now it's cool to see these guys who are like these wunderkinds get this like mid, you know, I don't want to call them middle age, sorry to say this, but you know, they're in this different phase of their lives. And then to have this new sort of platform to be able to express their creativity is a really exciting and hopefully a really great moment for them. They rise to the occasion. I think they can. Yes. Yes. And I would also say, oh, and the point that I was trying to make at the beginning was that this shouldn't be like Francesca Bellantini used to say this about Saint Laurent. I think it's a good one.

27:04It's it's an evolution, not a revolution. So when Anthony Baccarello took over for Hedy, it wasn't like we're going to totally change it because it was working. And it's the same thing with with. So I think this is a huge opportunity for them. It's a great challenge. Let's do it. I have maybe mentioned this on the on the pod before, but it's also interesting that American guys taking over Loewe, Michael Ryder at Celine. pretty much there are pretty much no creative directors at lvmh now other than guillaume henry who does uh patu and nicola gascare who does or jess scare depending on who you are right um who does louis vuitton there pretty much aren't any other french creative directors so it's interesting Like there's lots of Americans, Brits, Irish.

27:57So it's just, it's funny and, and it just reflects the world. So I'm really happy for them. And onward, I would say, yeah. So now we have one more announcement in, in that fold. And then also prior to jumping on, we were talking about, there really aren't as many, there's not like a lot of stuff dangling right now about creative directors. although who would you say is going to go to Proenza now oh yeah that's a good point um I interesting size business you know what I mean it's sort of interesting I am very pro and I have no idea I said this when it first when they was first announced I think they should hire Sandra Lack who used to did seize Marjan and who used to get trees and is hugely hugely talented and I I think he is strong enough of a designer that he could do his own thing, but like could still feel like Proenza.

28:55I love that. Because the thing about Proenza is it sells really well. It's, it's a brand that the price point it's designer, but it's not that expensive. It's one of those things where if you're, if you want to look cool or you just want to look good and you don't want to have to think too hard. A lot of women who like fashion, but aren't into fashion, buy Proenza at this point. It's like a big seller at a lot of boutiques. And so I think Cizmarjan had that. He has that commercial sensibility that you need for that brand, but also people would want to go to the shows. Another person that's named who, she'll probably kill me for saying this, but I think there are a lot of people who think Maria McManus would be good for it too, which I agree, but I think she'd have to figure out, should she keep her own line going?

29:47If she was going to do that. Cause it's just, it's, they have a very similar customer. Cause I was thinking like Daniela, that Daniela Kalmeier girl. Oh yeah. Sort of like, yes. Just tailoring really well. And I know like tailoring is sort of, you know, dresses and tailoring, I would say her prunza in me, in my mind. Yeah. They're big things. Yeah. But also what happened? Patrick Garvel was hired to launch everywhere. And then like that. And then I was kind of like, just let Patrick do. I would love Patrick to just do it. I'm obsessed. Remember when all the girls would wear just, I think like Kirsten Dunst would wear his suits and stuff.

30:18So I was like, just let him do it. I agree. I also think, and I don't want to, I need to be careful while I say this, but I think men's wear designers, not male designers, but men's wear designers when they move into women's, I think it tends to work much better than when women's wear designers move into men's. Totally. I agree. And it's not about whether the person is male or female. It's more about like, if you start in men's, I think it's easier to go into women's and have an idea. And I've always been such a big fan of Patrick's stuff. I think that would be great too. I saw him on the subway platform recently and he looked very chic and cool.

30:57He's so cool. He's such a cool guy. That whole crew is very cool. And I think also they have a really great CEO. She unfortunately had just started when this all went down. so she's kind of she's kind of stuck not stuck but like it is a situation um that maybe she wasn't prepared for i don't know maybe she knew before that they were talking and that this might happen but um but she is a good ceo and and should be able to keep it look they have investors they want to sell it i think they'll be able to sell it it's a good brand um and and we'll see but it's it's exciting all around i think like so now all we're really well dior announcement but all is balenciaga who would you want to go to balenciaga which i don't think we're gonna know that for months really no because also but also is fendies up in the air right oh yeah yeah but what you don't care about well i care but here's the thing until they phase the family out entirely who like I said I think Sylvia Venturini Fendi did an amazing job totally with that last show and maybe they should just keep her for a few years but it's never going to fully become an exciting thing unless the family is phased out like it's a hundred year old business it's time it's time for like a new for a new big idea yeah it's a time for a new big idea.