Oh, Dario!

0:03Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Fox Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is ID Magazine Steff Yotka. We're talking Simone Rocha Petit, Prada and Ralph in Milan, Dario's Future, Dua's Wedding Picks and plenty more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you had a great week. Did you hear it is hot outside? I am back in Paris. I've complained enough about the weather and I am just happy for all the news that's flowing in. Today is the start of the Paris Men's shows. I'll be at Orly and Saint-Laurent. There's also Louis Vuitton. Tomorrow morning is Dior.

0:42Many shows have moved to the morning for the heat wave. La Mer is also tomorrow. Dries, Celine later in the week and plenty going on in between. I am sure I will see you when I am not hiding out in the air conditioning at WeWork. this week on line sheet I go deep on the Dario Vitale of it all plus lots of mini scoops on fundraisers and designer departures plus Malik Morris has a big store at OVO Drake's fashion brand that is also many other things and the sort of quite complicated world around this thing it's very interesting it's Canadian it's fun enjoy and I will be back on Friday with a report from the shows let's get going with Steph.

1:31Steph Yatka, welcome back to Fashion People. Yay. Thank you so much for having me here in Milan. I'm full of pasta and I'm sweating so much. Are you still in Milan? Are you staying for Tom and Armani? I am. I'm leaving in a couple of hours. So I'll get to Paris tonight just in time to watch the France-Iraq World Cup game, which I will be tuning into. I'm excited for what's going to come in Paris. But Milan and Pitti Womo have been great. Okay, so let's start with Pitti. How was it? How has Simone Rocha really put men at the center since it is a men's trade show? But I know you're a big Simone fan.

2:17Do you go to Pitti every season or had you taken on a few? No, this was my third PT ever and I've gone very intermittently. I was there when Telfar did it. I was there when Eli Russell-Lanetz and Martine Rose did it. Oh, cool. And then I came for K-Ninomia and Simone. So I'm very choosy, but it was fantastic to be back because, you know, the world can change so much and the peacocks of PT Womo just, they're still there. They still got the three-piece linen suit and the fedora on. And there's something very comforting in that reality. Is Scott, what is that guy's name? Scott Shulman, the Sartoyalist.

3:02Yes. Is he still out there taking photos? Yeah. Taking pictures. It is, I'm working on my newsletter coming soon to the ID sub stack about men's. And it is really like the cure for the male loneliness epidemic. It's like go to PT Womo, bro down with your guys about the new lightweight summer fabrics or whatever. Like it's kind of a beautiful thing. It feels like you're going to Comic-Con for suits, you know. That's a great take. I also feel like Dan, my husband, is going to some Blackbird spy plane party on Wednesday that I assume you also be at. I won't be. but um he's I was like this is what is a new balance convention I love I love a men's fashion hangout because I do too I agree it carries a certain like levity joyfulness silliness that you kind of don't always get at a women's fashion hangout so I'm very grateful to be back out here with the guys it's true I really I also really enjoy it the last time I went to Pittiwomo showing my age, I believe Band of Outsiders and Rodarte.

4:19Did they show the same season? I think so. It was really amazing. Someday again. I remember loving it. The food was really good. And yeah, the men's shows are great. Like, it's much more relaxed. There's more time. But before we get into Milan and the sparseness of that schedule and what that may mean. What were your takeaways from Pitti? Did you feel like the headliners really took advantage of the stage? For sure. And I think what's so great about the Kei Nanomia show and Simone show is you can witness designers take that guest spot at Pitti and really sort of bow to the traditions of Florentine tailoring, of Italian tailoring, of Italian fashion and heritage in general.

5:13And I thought what was so great about the mix this time around was that like Cain and Omnia did Cain and Omnia. Like it was punk, there were mohawks, there were safety pins and buttons and vans. And it felt like a really exciting collection from him for bed. And that was happily in concert with some ideas that you might see inside the fair walls, but, you know, really felt like its own thing and a new voice in the chorus of menswear. And I would say the same about Simone. Like, you know, she spoke about kind of trying to figure out new tailoring shapes and emphasize the shapes that she's already known for.

5:53But then the collection like exploded outwards in so many other directions from leather aprons to pinafores to sequin blouses to painter smocks and I thought it felt like a really strong showing from Simone not just in menswear but in general like the collection had such a diversity of fabrication and silhouette and ideas and that's something that I hope kind of filters into her women's wear continues there that like the show felt like it had so many peaks and valleys and, you know, objects of interest, like just whether it was the corn flowers that some of the guys were carrying or certain suits were like almost completely backless and they had great shoes or they had their ties tucked into their sweater vests.

6:40Like I thought it's, it's definitely a romantic vision for guys. Um, but I think it felt really strong. And, you know, I was catching up with Bruce Pasch, men's wear goat, you know, like OG men's wear guy. Bergdorf Goodman, men's fashion director or something of that sort. Exactly. And he was really excited about the Simone show, which is great that it's like resonating with retailers. You know, I think at men's fashion week, you're closer to the retailers than at women's fashion week for sure. And there's a real sense of the customer. Like It's not all fantasy, whatever that can happen at women's.

7:23Totally. And that's why Prada was so dynamite. I can't wait to talk about it with you because I got, I mean, there was a lot. But okay. So I had never been to Milan men's before and decided to go because I had a trip to London and was like, you know what? I might as well. And it was amazing because I did like, I think seven meetings on Friday and it was just, it was kind of like being there not for fashion week. I went only went to four shows. I went to Ralph, I went to Paul Smith and was the other, oh, statue on Saturday and then Prada on Sunday. And that was it. I'm sad. I wanted to stay for Tom and Armani, but I have a child and had some child care.

8:16You have some priorities. Yeah. My husband was going to Cannes Lions. This is the thing about being in Europe. There's just shit all the time that you actually want to go to. And it's not that hard to get to them. But it was, I mean, it was touch and go driving through Fete de la Musique to my apartment last night. Yeah. And I was like, am I going to get home to my child? I don't envy that. Yeah. Anyway, I always find I always say this about Milan women's that I feel like it create it like really tells the story of the fashion industry because you have it's the center of the industry of like actual making clothes.

8:52All the brands that are there are very commercial. You have a mix of the big groups and then you also have the independents. It was hard, a little harder to tell that story with men's because it was so sparse, but I still think it was, it happened. I'm curious to know your take on the season. And do you think it's negative or do you think it's like a crisis that so few brands are showing there? I think for Milan men's to continue to have a really powerful future, some of these big dogs have to come back. You can see what happened to London Fashion Week. And, you know, it's great today. It was just announced that McQueen is going to show in London.

9:34Nobody loves London Fashion Week more than me. I think like Laura Weir is doing an incredible job kind of re-strategizing how London Fashion Week works and the brands that are on show there. And I think Milan probably needs that same touch because without, I mean, there's so many brands, Gucci, Versace, Bottega, I mean, even Diesel, Ferragamo, like we could talk about, we can make a list of brands that are based in Italy that haven't shown in Milan. It would take the rest of this podcast episode. But without that, it's really easy for people to just come on Sunday for Prada and leave on Monday after Armani.

10:17And I think that's a real risk to all of the other independent talents. and also like the amazing tailoring brands and like heritage brands that don't do a show here. Like people will just stop coming. You know, it's hot, it's expensive, it's summertime. We're all trying to close a September issue. And so, you know, my hope is that some more of these big dogs kind of come back home to Milan. I think Gucci has said that they're planning to do Stand Alone Men's, which is great. Oh, great. But, you know, I think the vibe here is still is very fun. The shows are very exciting. I think despite the fact that, you know, men's work can be so much about tailoring and seriousness, I think there's a real levity in a lot of the collections, like Ralph, like Prada.

11:05Things feel very snappy and exciting and trendy, not so tasteful. Tastefulness is kind of over for men, which I'm very glad about.

11:21my big takeaway when i walked into ralph lauren was like it's not the end of navy obviously but like the world has been dominated by people by men wearing navy for the last 20 years and obviously everyone at ralph lauren was dressed in navy but then on the runway it was a lot of black and white and really really sharp and yeah like look i think it's cute the way they mix all that stuff together and I think it's great that they're putting John the longtime menswear designer more front and center and letting him talk to press more and all that stuff he always did behind the scenes but like really out there and it's just a master class it's the only brand in the world that can sell convincingly across so many price points and have so much integrity it's really amazing um but I thought like wow it really is moving in this direction of that sort of hate to use this word but like quiet luxury soft colors thing that is so dominant in men in men's fashion and especially in milan and italian men's fashion it doesn't feel right anymore and i thought at ralph that was very clear and then at prada snappy is a great word it was just like boom boom boom it was um i mean i did my hair in two little braids today very influenced by uh julia novice's the guy who had them was on my flight back to paris i was with all like a bunch of models models yeah once i was on a on an early flight with a bunch of models and i had an aisle seat and one of them said to me would you mind switching she was in in like the i don't even know if she was in this i think she was on the it wasn't an aisle i don't think she was in a center seat she was a window and I was like why and she said oh I just don't want to sit at the window and I was like no I also don't want to sit at the window it was hilarious I was like this is what happens when you're 17 but um I was like good for you anyway I thought it was just like when we got the invites that it was like a glow stick which I guess are more similar to the kind of glow sticks that are at like k-pop concerts which obviously i would not know it just reminded me of a glow stick i thought oh like ravey whatever but it did it felt like to me the ideal of what you want to look like when you're young but maybe couldn't get your shit together to do so when you were and now you can afford prada and you can wear those skinny white jeans.

14:04I loved it. I thought it was, the shoes were amazing. Every single little inch was, every little item I wanted, I thought it was fabulous. It was fabulous. I loved how even in something that is so simple and so streamlined, they were still doing all of these interesting styling touches like one pair of pants had a bunch of like suspenders as the belt and then a bunch of guys had like a ton of silk scarves knotted around their waist almost to like mimic the way boxers would come out of pants but it was silk scarves and like one of the early looks is this gray kind of like floppy white t-shirt that's like hastily tucked into jeans with like the fanny pack belt Like there was still so much personality and so much fun happening in something that was so like really like streamlined to the point.

15:06I mean, I think every single look was that pant silhouette. Like it was just that one pant 50 times. Yeah. Yeah. And you and you forget how I mean, it's we don't forget and you definitely don't forget. But like, it's easy to forget how important Raph was to people in the 90s and the early 2000s. For sure. And it's invigorating to feel that his point of view really playing into the men's discourse. You know, I think like there's whole colors like that sort of. I guess it's like a cyan blue that I so associate with Raph and is like such a recurring color in some of his later collections, as well as like that sun yellow.

15:53And the green that's so Prada was in it, too. It was great. No, all the guys after the show that I was with were like freaking out about it. Because I think what's great about a collection that is really like rooted in the classics, I hate to say that, but like the five pocket jean and a trucker jacket is even though it's shown on some of the most intensely thin people, which is maybe a whole other conversation we can have about model casting in general, those clothes are going to work on a lot of bodies like in different sizes. Like, you know, it's jeans look great on everybody. A good pair of jeans is like unimpeachable as far as a garment goes.

16:39The button down shirts, the trucker jackets, those little sweater vests, the fanny pack accessory. Like, I think there's so much in there that so many people will be drawn to, but it didn't feel like a basic collection of basics because there's that Prada subversion and inventiveness and kind of like sexiness, which is not a word I would associate with Prada often. Yeah, well, it's like thinky sexy. Well, that's interesting because I think it lacked the perversion that Prada often has. There was one model, not to be a pervert here on the podcast, who maybe he was the closing look in like the raspberry colored suit, who they hadn't shaved his like, what do you call that?

17:25A happy trail? And I was like, you know, they are really shaving these guys legs. And at least they let this one guy keep his little stomach hair. I thought, you know, in this context, that's about as sexy as it's going to get. And I was grateful that it was there. Yeah. It was interesting because sometimes it is like really, really perverted. And I didn't feel that. I loved it. What I will say, it was interesting because I am a person who sometimes I leave Prada and I'm like, I don't feel comfortable right now. This show, I was like, I love this. I'm obsessed. I feel so good. And I felt like everyone in the room felt that way too.

18:06I got messages immediately from three men who are product customers who were like I hate it whoa and I think it was interesting one was like you know I spend close to 100 grand a year there I'm not buying any of this well another person was like it had just dropped a ton on the men's and women's was like I'm not into it I think that that GLP one silhouette could turn people off like initially what I wrote was like it doesn't matter they know how to merchandise this stuff and I think you're right that it will work on a lot of different bodies and once they see it in the stores it will have a different feeling but it was interesting because I was shocked like usually usually if there is like gonna be a mixed feeling about a show I can tell like I'll be like I'm not really sure what I think about it or you just know but this like I was like oh my god this was so good and immediately I got feedback that people and so it's interesting because I think it also comes down to that idea of being in person and not And what a difference it makes.

19:28Yeah. I mean, I think if you look at the Vogue Runway pictures, you know, which is how most people are going to see this or the Prada.com pictures, it is like the collection reads very flat is maybe the wrong word. But there's just not a lot of like dimension because there's not a lot of pattern and there's not a lot of like layering. So I could see how if you're just clicking through a slideshow, you'd be like, huh. But let me be the one to say it looks amazing on. and you know it's going to look amazing in stores and there's going to be all other kinds of product extensions to like keep the story going.

20:01Totally. I was super pro. I am very bullish on it. And I also think it's going to, I think the color and the way it was presented, obviously the silhouette, but I do think it's going to change the conversation in menswear, but also beyond. Like it was more of a, I hate that word, but like genderless collection. Very Helmut Langian in some of the fabrications and silhouettes. Yes.

20:36One thing on the show, the sparse schedule and the idea of Gucci coming back and London Fashion Week and New York Fashion Week and these other than Paris Fashion Weeks and the challenges that they have. I'm of two minds. One is London is going to feel essential this season because of McQueen, because of Christopher Kane and Mulberry. So you have those two big names. Christopher is a, you know, a one in a million talent. It's going to be amazing no matter what. And then you have Burberry. So like there is a really a reason to go again. New York, there's going to be, I'm hearing like some really interesting things happening.

21:16So it's going to feel energized. September is always, I think, because the weather's better, feels a little more energy-wise. But I will say, and I think in Milan, the big challenge is what these brands need to decide is, do you want to, I think there are several of them, Gucci, Bottega, Jill Sander, they could all do men's shows. Like Jill Sander used to do a men's show. Bottega, I don't know if I think Thomas Meyer used to split men's and women's, but I think like, it's a real question of maybe that is a more bang for your buck. Like, do you do one big show or do you do two shows with a couple women in a couple men?

22:04I kind of think, I don't know from a marketing return on investment perspective, you'd have to figure it out. but if they want these fashion weeks to feel essential more brands are going to have to show with them on the other hand like my other question is like should we just kind of let nature take its course and try to stop forcing something that doesn't feel natural anymore and I always think back to Emily Bodie who probably has a better business than 95 of these companies she barely ever shows like maybe she's showing and I don't know like I don't I have no idea but um she doesn't need to show every season and it doesn't it's complicated like Phoebe Philo is the most influential designer working right now other than Matthew Blasi and she's not she hasn't showed eventually she probably will and and there's a value to show showing and it also like all the influence that Emily has had on people or Phoebe has had on people if they had a show it would be more obvious they could get more credit but like there is a part of me that's like for me as a journalist going to those four shows or four or five shows and meeting with people was more valuable than going to 15 shows like just for the kind of work that I do and I think more people and probably for you too like yeah i mean i think like fashion week is no longer about fashion shows really like the fashion shows are the flagship event but they're not the be all to end all of why any of us show up we're all doing meetings we're all catching up with people we're all doing interviews for future print magazines you know it's like you have to hit so many marks I think the thing with all of these fashion weeks is that they need to start operating more like tourism boards than fashion show vehicles.

24:09Like if you think about something like Salone de Mobley or Coachella, it's like, sure, Charlie XCX is the headliner or whatever. You know, sure, there's like the T Magazine party at Villenecke that you want to go to. But there's all of these other things. Like I think Copenhagen Fashion Week, which I went to two years ago, does a great job. Like there's not that many shows and there's not that many brands. But they plan all of these other things for you to do. Art galleries, movie screenings, dinners, meeting a chef, going on a boat tour, whatever. It's like if Fashion Week took a little bit of the pretension out of the situation and said, okay, maybe Milan Fashion Week men's is only going to have five big shows.

24:56But instead, we're going to bring on a sneaker brand and throw a rave. Or we're going to do a food thing. Or we're going to do a film thing. I mean, there was that Sofia Coppola screening at the Fondazione Prada that I was not invited to. I thought maybe we could do a podcast and not mention Sofia Coppola. I wasn't either. And I was like, oh, I would have gone. I mean, I did. I was like, oh, why didn't Michael? Why did he probably didn't think that we would be there? I guess. Or she's taken out a restraining order against us. Well, the funny thing was, I went to the Fondazi on Prada that day. I had lunch at their restaurant there, which is amazing.

25:38It's so nice. And then I saw, you know, I don't know if they just I maybe they didn't do a lot of press. I don't think they really think we could have just gone. But I was like, I kind of saw that it was there, but I just didn't think about it. And then I was like, oh, I think I would have because I still haven't seen it. Me neither. Oh, my God. Anyway, I know it's like, you know, I could it's too in my mind and my heart to see. I don't need to see it. I know what happened. But I would have liked to see her chat. She did a talk and she was wearing a great polka dotted skirt. I would have liked to see that.

26:14Her hair color is so good. Anyway, you know, I think these fashion weeks could feel more like a cultural event and more in concert with the culture of all of these cities than just an opportunity to go to the Prada show. It's like I love going to the Prada show, but I would also love to be a little bit more interwoven in the fabric of Milan and of Italy in general. And that's kind of what PT does well. It's kind of what Copenhagen Fashion Week does well. I think Laura's trying to bring that to British London Fashion Week. And it's like, you know, to me, the ball is really in the core of the CFDA, the Camera de la Moda, and even the French Federation to like turn these beyond trade events and fashion show events into something that, you know, like if Fête de la Musique has millions of people in the streets, like shouldn't Fashion Week have some kind of exciting counterpart beyond everyone waiting for celebrities to show up to Dior, you know?

27:10Yeah. And in Milan, there'll be Vogue World, which is great. But yes, I agree. And we could do a whole breakdown of this. I only have a few more minutes. So there were two more topics that I want. Well, three, actually. We're gonna have to do a lightning round. round first off i really like the david simms do a lipa calum turn callum turner photos they were so gorgeous 10 out of 10 to me is the perfect celebrity she's the only person being famous correctly in my book a hundred percent that's all we need to say well done a plus mood board forever Okay, moving on. What do you think about the Sunay guys going to Moschino?

27:58I think it's super smart for Moschino. They're two genius, kind of like very cerebral stuntmen. I think it's a bummer about Adrian Apiolazza, who is a fantastic designer who I loved at Loewe and who I stand forever. Hopefully he gets an amazing job after this and we get to continue to see his vision. But I love the Sune guys. I think they're brilliant. And I think like the shows that they staged here in Milan with very little budget generated so much buzz and interest. And the clothes are great, by the way. So I think that's like a net positive for Moschino and for Milan. Yeah, I think it's just tough.

28:45Like it's the, all these businesses that are really reliant on wholesale, Sune and Moschino, both like, it's just makes it hard. It's hard to break through when you're not part of a big group, when you're not owned by Renzo Rosso, when you're all these things. So, but the good thing about something that Moschino is IFE, the parent company is going to have a new owner, private equity firm. Maybe this gets it sold to a strategic group because these guys are funny and smart they put their phone number on the um press release which i was like that's my move um but yeah they they're great i did a bof video with them during the pandemic and barely remember it but do remember really liking them um amazing but yeah adrian i think what someone close to the company said is like he might just be a person who shouldn't be a creative director he's like has more fashion knowledge of any designer ever.

29:45He has an incredible archive that he collects and rents out to people, but maybe he's better off behind the scenes or this just wasn't the right brand. It's a very tough brand. And I think the Sune guys are really funny. And so you have to be funny. And so we'll see. You have to be funny. I also think it's a brand that's become very much about, you know, t-shirts and jersey. Like it's not a brand where you're designing like couture silhouettes a brand where you need to come up with some clever tees i think the sune guys are great at that yeah um okay finally dario yeah there was so much gossip this weekend about where dario's going and there was this big report in this publication italian publication called the platform that is run by a very serious business journalist she was a business journalist at the giant the most well-read newspaper in italy for 23 years she's not she's not full of shit um but i did and basically she reported that dario was about to sign emporio armani of course everyone else who talked about it was like dario's going to emporio armani doesn't mean he's going there if he hasn't signed people so i did a bunch of reporting around it from what i have deduced is that it could happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

31:07And also there's like a million factors and you can read in line sheet, I go through all of it, like of why this doesn't make sense right now. And maybe it'll make sense in a year and everybody just needs to chill out. But I know, I feel like the last time you were on, we talked about what Daryl's options are. And I will say, I would love to see him in Armani in a year. I think just taking Emporio, if he's only taking Emporio, there's got to be some promise that he's going to get the whole thing or whatever. Like Emporio is a contemporary brand. And he this guy is like, if anyone has options, it's him.

31:46But I'm just curious, like if it happened, would you like what would at this point? What are your hopes and dreams for Dario? Because everyone seems to have an opinion. I just think he is like the MVP right now. He's the most wanted player in this creative director World Cup. I guess I think after what happened with Versace, he deserves a stable job, which someplace like Armani can give you, even if it's Emporio transitioning to Giorgio one day. Like that's a real company that invests in its employees. And you can tell because everyone has worked there for 70 years, you know. Back in New York a couple of months ago, someone told me he was meeting with people at Ralph Lauren, which I don't know if that's true or not.

32:37But I think like, you know. I think he probably met with everybody. Yeah. Honestly. I would say I want the best for you, Dario. Me talking to him directly. I want the best for you. So someone will relay this to him, I promise. Yeah. See what all your options are. You're a genius. And by the way, like, enjoy. I'm sure you're going to have a great summer, you know? Yeah. Well, what someone said to me, and I think it's true, you have to remember this is a person who knew that if he took the job he took, he would eventually get fired. And he took it anyway. Yeah. Because he wanted to do something interesting.

33:19one. He did a big one. And so I think that's how he lives his life. And we should all be like that. Amen. Amen. Who knows where he'll eventually end up? I think that he has decided. I don't know what it is. If I find out, I will let everyone know. But I think it's just interesting. What an amazing lesson to all of us. Yeah, no, truly. I think we've grown so accustomed to the same for people changing jobs. I don't know what to call it. There's like a luxury malaise in all of this. I think it's very cool for a creative director in this marketplace and in this time and fashion that is so unstable and uncertain to value themselves and their talent.

34:09And I sort of think like more of our leaders, more of our creative leaders should feel that way. You know, It's like the economy is so bad. We're all trying to make things that are beautiful and inspiring and creative. And I think it's very cool to not just jump on the bandwagon of your first job offer. I think wherever he ends up, the goodwill around him and his talent is so great that it will only be incredible. So wishing you the best, Dario Vitale. I hope you're having a great summer. maybe do some private client stuff. I mean, you know, who knows? Design a couple of things for fun. I'll watch her Instagram and we'll see what happens.