Roman Empire

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm your German writer of Kux fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is superstar food writer and chef Alison Roman, author of the brand new Something From Nothing. We're talking fashion on Landman, Luca Guadagnino versus the costume designers, holiday party dressing, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you are having a great week. I am in New York, headed to the Chanel show this afternoon. It is cold. It is snowy. it is what it is anyway i'm very excited it should be super fun and i will have more details in wednesday's line sheet and also maybe we'll give you a bit of color on the podcast on friday we will see but you really gotta subscribe to line sheet for the good good deets uh i've also got on monday i had some of the latest and greatest palace intrigue from inside lvmh Someone asked me today why I don't write more about Richemont.

1:08What I would say is if you want me to write about Richemont, give me a call. I can be proactive, but not that proactive. I'm not like fishing for stuff. Stuff just comes to me. There's a lot, a lot of stuff happening. People like to talk to me. So if you want me to write about Richemont, make me write about Richemont. I also broke down the ASAP Rocky for Chanel arrangement, what I think that means for the feature of the brand and discuss the Armani board editions, including line sheet star Marco Bizzari, who, you know, did a lot of work at Gucci and made that into a really big company. So perhaps he's going to be lending some of his knowledge at Armani.

1:50It's super interesting. On Tuesday, Sarah Shapiro is taking us behind the scenes of the most important mall in America, South Coast Plaza. You know, I can't even explain to you how important this model is to luxury brands, and she is able to break down why. I highly recommend that one, and I will be back later in the week, so let's get going with Allison.

2:17Allison Roman, welcome to Fashion People. Hello. I am so happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you. How's the tour been? It's been great. I'm sort of at the tail end. I'm in Portland, Oregon today. And then San Francisco, then L.A., and then I come home. Perfect. How many cities did you do? I did 12. 12 or 13. I started in London and then we'll end in L.A. And so it's been good. I did it sort of differently this time. Normally I do like a two and a half week like nonstop situation. and last time I did that I was like I will never do that again like I just I couldn't do it I think I was like 38 and I was like no never again and now even the way that I'm doing it now which is like coming home in between with breaks and stuff it's so much easier it's still like a lot because you don't fully get to relax or like ease into your everyday life you're sort of like always in a heightened state of like intensity until you're fully done.

3:23But I think now because of the baby, it was I was just like, I can't do the whole thing being gone like that. Yeah. It's amazing what kids help you prioritize. Yeah. Like sleeping and like, like, I don't know, also just work stuff where you're like, am I like, what am I missing that for? Yeah. Yeah. Or also, I think also just like having done a book, this is like my fourth book. And I think when it's your first book or even maybe your second book or, you know, insert project here, you're sort of like, okay, I'm going to like do all this stuff and all this media and all this press and I'm going to work with this hard.

4:02And then X is going to happen. And you sort of start to realize that like that isn't the case. Like X doesn't happen. Or if X does happen, nothing really changes. Or I don't know, you're sort of like, okay, what is all this for? there's no like magic bullet of this thing is going to change your life. And it's sort of now I'm at the place in my life where I'm like, okay, it's really not about any one thing changing your life or your career. It's like a maintenance thing, you know? So I feel less pressure to say yes to everything and to be everywhere and to do everything and less anxiety about like how one singular thing performs, quote unquote.

4:39it how do you approach your wardrobe for book tour do you have like a sponsor i know you are a partner of sazon sazon i am i am a hashtag sazon lover um no i worked with um a friend of mine doria sanslofer who is a stylist um well i think this is her first shout out on the podcast Is it? Love her. She's so fabulous. She's so fabulous. I'm also terrified I'm pronouncing her last name incorrectly. I think that's correct. I have also never said it aloud, and it's a great—a lot of friends of Doria have been on the podcast. She's wonderful. So tell me your and Doria's strategy for this tour. Sure. So, I mean, so, yeah, this time last year I was super pregnant and obviously wasn't doing a lot of shopping.

5:37And so that means by my calculations I haven't been shopping in two years. And so I think like in conjunction with that and like turning 40 and all that comes along with that, just generally of being like, who am I? How do I dress? Like, what is my style? I felt super, super lost. And I think in the past, I used a stylist one other time for a press tour. And it was great, but it was also like extremely expensive. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I need to do that again. Because I like going shopping and I can do that. But this time I was just like, I don't have the time. And I also am like, who am I?

6:17Like, what am I doing? I also find I have this like very bizarre I get like really hung up on what am I wearing for a press tour and for an event and for like a party. Right. And I think that all three of those require such a different vibe from me, but also need to be the same vibe because it's me. But I feel like and I've always felt this way like if I'm on camera for a morning show and it's like 730 in the morning and I'm making beans I'm not going to be wearing like an elaborate garment. And so it's definitely not going to be the same outfit that I would be wearing at a party. I'm not wearing the Alaya laser cutout bodysuit at 730 in the morning obviously even though it was fabulous.

7:02But it sort of took me a long time to determine like what is that like press look versus what is my everyday look versus whatever. And so she really helped me figure that out, I think, this time around. But I just get like so hung up on like, would I actually cook in this? Is this practical to wear in the morning? Which I think a lot of people don't care about or think about, but I do. And she was really helpful in honoring that. because I've also worked with people in the past that don't honor that. And they're always trying to put me in something where I'm like, well, I wouldn't cook in this.

7:34And I feel like this is like not appropriate for 730 in the morning. Not like I'm a Mormon, but like, I don't know. I'm just like, this feels outlandish. You're not looking at all the Mormon blogs either, I assume. But I think also, I have noticed you wear jeans, like you wore jeans on some of the morning shows, right like you I feel like the way that you use fashion I'm sure a lot do a lot of your fans ask you about your clothes and things because you you you to me sort of exemplify what the person who is cooking your meals wants to dress like too which is is it shows that you're like paying attention to it even if you're just wearing jeans and a sweater it's like nice and and feels like stuff you would actually wear offline or whatever yeah thank you I mean I think that that is what I try to do regardless in my work like the food that is photographed in my cookbooks is like the food that I actually make and then we take a picture of it like the clothes that I wear on tv like it's what I'm actually wearing like I don't have hair and makeup for like the times that I'm photographed for my cookbooks like I do feel sort of not responsibility, but like I like to sort of appear how I am.

8:50I like to sort of present as if this is life and this is real because that feels important to me. I like that's what I like to consume in my media. Like that's what I like appreciate when other people do. And so that's just what I feel most comfortable. And it would be sort of my nightmare to meet people out in the world and have them be like, oh, you look so different or your life is so different than what you present publicly. And I think that most people who know me are like, oh, your life and what you present are pretty much exactly the same. Yeah, it's very interesting to think about generationally how you present versus someone who is doing a similar thing to you 20 years ago and how they would like just be in clothes that someone sort of got for them from target or whatever and and there wouldn't be any and it requires because of like the sort of nichification of our culture it requires like a very specific to be very specific in order to appeal to a broad audience yeah it feels like very prescriptive a lot of books yeah and i'm sure there are some publishers that are like you have to wear this and this should be your look and again 20 years ago i'm sure that was a lot more manufactured and And I think some people, regardless of their profession, if they're in the public eye, maybe prefer to have a bit of separation.

10:16And they're like, well, this is my public persona and this is my private persona. And that's how they feel more comfortable. And I do understand the appeal because it is sort of intense and vulnerable to be like, well, this is me all the time. Yeah. So I get that. But, yeah. Yeah, you're going the Ina route. Yeah, I'm going from the Chambre button down. Exactly. And what you see is what you get. I was Ina for Halloween. I saw that. Which I was like, is that too close? Yeah, I was like, can I do that? I mean, obviously it was the world's laziest Halloween costume. I decided like the day before I was going to do it.

10:51And I don't know if anyone in my neighborhood got it. Like, I think they just like people were like, oh, great haircut. I was like, great haircut. I was like, this is so a wig. What are you talking about? And I was like, oh, I guess I do just wear this outfit. And it wasn't maybe perhaps enough of a costume. Well, the Internet got it and that's all that matters. That's right. Have you been able to watch any Landman while you were on this tour? So I just started Landman. Not only have I been able to, it's pretty much all I've been able to. I've done so much good television watching the past, I would say, two or three weeks.

11:25Before that, I hadn't watched a single episode of anything. I barely knew what was going on, but I've really caught up. And boy, am I having a good time. So let's discuss Landman. I'm obsessed with Landman. I'm obsessed with the fashion and the clothing in Landman. The costume designer, I need to triple check this, but I believe it's Janie Bryant, who is the Madman costume designer. I don't believe she was on the first season. I think she maybe was on the second. That makes a lot of sense. Oh, yeah. She breaks down Landman's iconic styles. And maybe she was last season, too. I don't know. anyway um i think she's maybe just this season well we'll see anyway it doesn't really matter the point being i'm curious what what attracted you to landman i i want someone to write and i talked about this with avery truffelman last week too i want someone to write an essay or an article or something about why people who live in cities who would not necessarily watch a show of this genre are obsessed with Landman in particular.

12:38But I'm curious what drew you to it. What do you mean by, what about the demo? What are you suggesting? So the guy, okay, I always forget this guy's name. It's really embarrassing. The guy is like - Taylor - Taylor Sheridan. Taylor Sheridan. So Taylor Sheridan obviously has Yellowstone. Very popular everywhere. Did you know he was a failed actor? I didn't. I just found this out. He's a good looking guy. I can believe it. Fine looking guy. Yeah. Very good looking. I think he's good looking. So there's something about Landman that people who I tried to watch Yellowstone, I couldn't watch it. Couldn't do it.

13:23Couldn't get through it. there's something about the show that like urban people who live i don't we use this word last week but this coastal elites type thing which is feels like five years ago and and not of of my world but people who live in new york and la you're too in it that's why you are the coastal unfortunately yeah um new york la san francisco are really into this show a lot of movie producers producers, TV producers, showrunners, they all love it. And I've been trying to figure out what it is. I think it may be that the actors are all really great and people who we are interested in.

14:10And they are sort of carrying this sort of extremely silly show. But the other thing is the last two episodes, I'm all caught up. I'm not caught up, admittedly. You'll get there. The first season I fell asleep every single episode. The last two episodes, I've stayed up the whole time. And at the end of this last episode, my husband was like, oh, this show has gotten good. I was interested in what was happening rather than just the characters. There's something about it that is appealing to people who would normally sort of turn up their nose or just like not want to engage with Taylor Sheridan content.

14:54Maybe it's the writing. I don't know. I know he writes everything, but there's something about this show in particular. And I'm just curious why you have glommed onto it. Gravitated to it. Well, embarrassingly, my gateway to the show was like a 2 a.m. Instagram scroll. And I stumbled upon Allie Larder's page. And I was like, Allie Larder? I was like, what is she doing these days? And I was like, oh, my God, Allie Larder looks so good. How old is she? And then I started watching all these interviews with her. And then she was talking about her character. And she was talking about her clothes and the cross.

15:33And, you know, she was talking about her family and her kids, watching her be this character. And I was like, well, what is this character? Like, I got to know. And so then I started watching it. But also my husband, Max, who's like a pretty harsh critic of television and movies. It's his industry. So he's like, you know, pretty harsh judge, but also consumes a lot of it. He loves it. And so I'm which really just reinforces your thesis here. And so I was like, OK, well, if he likes it, then I'll probably like it. But it's like the right side of camp. And but I do also think that like for me, I was to say I was nostalgic for Ali Larder feels like a bridge too far.

16:11maybe a little dramatic, but I don't know. I was like hooked by her. I would call her a revelation. I mean, she's absolutely incredible. I heard the daughter is dating Glenn Powell. Interesting. We need to fact check her on that one. I mean, as of this week. We will need to fact check that. Things change fast and loose. Yeah. But that checks out. I mean, aesthetically. That makes sense. Totally. He never seems to be dating anyone. so that's interesting there's also yeah i know there's also something really nice about billy bob thornton thornton which i always mispronounce his last name um as like this serious sort of like dramatic actor who i grew up and we grew up in the era of him being like i would say self-serious intense sort of the angelina jolie of it all like a little dark in this like wildly light-hearted sort of comedic role.

17:12I'm loving it. I'm loving it for him. I also think he's sort of like, fuck it. Like, I'm done here. I don't need to be that guy. And if this is it for me, he's going to take that check and he's going to ride it into the sunset. And I'm so happy for him. Yeah. And I do think the clothes sort of, I don't know, underscore or play into all that stuff you're talking about. Like Allie Larder is having a great time. She's totally fun. They're dressing her in amazing jeans and her face looks amazing. It looks like she hasn't done anything. I'm sure she's done something, but she looks awesome. She looks like aged, but not aged.

17:57You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And he's like a suit cowboy, a cowboy suit or whatever. Like he's in like Western gear. And he's obsessed with her, which we love to see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Demi Moore in the second season has a much bigger role. And she's like rich lady. And is like, yeah, I'm great suede blazer. She also looks great. It's there is something I think it's a mix of also the house that they live in is weird and looks like it would be in that area of Texas and just terrible. And they just got everything lifestyle porn for us. And like the same way, the last time I felt this way was like Friday Night Lights where I'm like, wow this life is so different from me and mine and the way that i grew up like this was not my high school experience this is not my family experience this was not my culture and yeah i grew up in la and i i don't know there's something exactly about like it's dramedy vibes i thought when the show first came out that it was strictly drama it was more yellowstone and i just wasn't interested and now i'm realizing what it's actually all about i'm like i'm all the way in yeah it gets it doesn't take itself too serious no and well i'm hard to imagine it really does we were we we looked at each other and we were like oh now we're actually interested and invested in these characters whereas before it was just like really nice background noise the other thing is ali larder and her daughter on the show who potentially is dating glenn powell in real life maybe wear a lot of at yeah wear a lot of active wear and and is i just think the way they use the clothes is very interesting and even like the guys on the oil rig and then the girlfriend the widower widower girlfriend of the sun she is like in leave i don't know it's just the whole thing is great i highly recommend it we're going to talk a little bit more about costume design because our beloved Luca Guadagnino has...

19:55It's not water. It is crazy. So Business of Fashion does this conference every year called Voices. I used to work at Business of Fashion. I would go to this conference. It's very fun. Like 150 people come. It's industry executives. People stay up very late. I used to go to bed and go to sleep before everybody. But everyone has a great time. He goes and talks to Tim Blanks, who's BOF's editor-at-large, about, I don't know, being interested in fashion. And Luca Guadagnino has famously worked with a lot of fashion designers. He has hired Jonathan Anderson to do his costumes for, I think, three of his movies at this point.

20:35He also works with this woman, Julia, who used to be a knitwear designer at Celine when Phoebe Philo was there. And then he also collaborated with Raf Simmons on wardrobes for at least a bigger splash, or maybe it was Eye in Love or both. um but but anyway he he goes and talks to tim and they're having like a nice conversation and he basically says i think normal like traditional costume designers blow and that i would only work with a fashion designer because fashion designers understand the body and costume designers just look at the clothes which was truly the most reductive and also incorrect statement ever and like I understand why he wants to work with costume with with traditional designers because he likes fashion and he wants someone who has a sense of that but there are costume designers who also have a sense of that it is of course just such a goofy thing why did he say this it's just so dumb the only people that are mad are the costume designers but I just thought it was silly yeah I'm sure he was it was sort of a I have to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was a misspeak.

21:45But yeah, I think that the assumption that the fashion designer is an artist and the costume designer is sort of like the labor, right? And like they're not necessarily an artist. And he obviously fancies himself an artist and works with artists and puts himself in a different category. And to be a costume designer, it's like, well, that's not art, perhaps to him. But which translates then to the body and this and the intentionality behind things. But I think that to your point with Landman, there is so much that goes into the choices that are made to illustrate like the character and the plot and the story and the energy that are extremely pointed, that go beyond the body, that go into the story, that like only make the director better.

22:32And it's like so bizarre to overlook that. Yeah, I was thinking about Colleen Atwood who I did a panel for a puck event last year with Jonathan Anderson actually and Colleen Atwood and two other costume designers and she was doing the Beetlejuice sequel or whatever and I mean she's done so much she's worked with Tim Burton she's worked with all these different people but then she's also she did one battle after another which like the the costumes we loved yeah we I mean we loved it and if you look at the costumes or the clothes in that film and Paul Thomas Anderson usually works with this guy Mark Bridges I don't know why he didn't work with him on this but like those were it was this like the thing that Luca Guadagnino was talking about is what she did in that movie and it just sort of I don't know it was such a weird thing for him I I don't know why he had to say it.

23:30I'm the only one who cares. But now I'm invested in this. Well, now all your listeners care because they care about what you care about. So you got a bunch of people upset on your behalf. And we were, prior to chatting, we were talking about a sub stack that you love from a costume designer that we both know. Yes. So she, Mirren, she actually, I had an ill-fated CNN show a few years back, and she was a friend of mine that I met through an ex. And she is also a costume designer, but she also agreed to style me for the show, even though it wasn't like, I think, what she typically did. She was so radically thoughtful in the way that she styled me.

24:16She would be like running through the episodes and being like, OK, this one takes place in Greece and you're making this like here's the color palette. Here's what you should wear. Like she was so it was my first time working with somebody at that level that wasn't just like here are some great outfits that you'll look great in for an event. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, if I ever go the TV route again, hopefully I can work with somebody like her or her or whatever that sort of considers like the screen in the same way about like what you wear and the content that you're presenting.

24:47But it was like very eye opening. And I think that like I've always, you know, when I do cookbook stuff and photographs, like I try to like be mindful of like the clothing and how it interacts with the food and the photos. But she took it to such a crazy level. But so her sub stack, I'm going to I don't know how to say this, Mirren. accent I was gonna say I also don't know how to say it I think it's you do it I think it's accent a gu a la mode obviously but a gu a gu a so miran that's great um but she yeah she takes these movies from new to old and she sort of breaks them down by like not to call it a mood board is a little productive, but it's sort of like, here is what they wear.

25:32Here's why it's important. And then sort of occasionally like the shoppable lengths of like how to like sort of get the look, but really not in a cheesy way. She's so classy. She really does it in a way that's like not cringe at all. I highly recommend it, but it's like good for sort of film nerds and for costume nerds and for people who appreciate clothing and history and film. And she just does a great job. It's like it's just a hobby for her and she has great personal style a big fan of high sport as we all are yeah who isn't who i wore some high sport doria put me in some high sport and i was like am i a high sport girl i want to be so badly and then all i could think about was like greta lee running down the vogue world runway and high and i was like my god i'm not greta i mean who is but i'm like oh i like i just i didn't know i don't know if my body is a high sport body you know i I understand.

26:26I think you are because I am also and I also do not look like Greta. She is the best advertisement in those floral pants that that Alyssa Zachary could ever get. But I think you are. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I love the way they feel. They feel great. I got the peplum top, which I feel like you should get. Which one is that? It's a it's a little like peplum tube top for the holiday season. Oh, okay. Don't mind if I do. Yeah. Doria put me in this like, it's sort of like a tunic-y top. It's like longer than a top and shorter than a dress. Yes. And then these like. Apron-y. Yeah, checkered pants, which is something I would never wear.

27:08But I was like, okay. And that's an example of me being like, oh, this works for one time on TV and I'll probably never wear it again. For sure. Because it doesn't fit into my life. But that's what's fun about getting dressed for those things and having somebody dress you. I can see that. It's like a different version, but still you. Yeah. You're like, oh, I am playing dress up a little bit. But yeah, a different version of myself.

27:37So how do you approach holiday party dressing generally? Because I feel like it is a similar sort of methodology as these like event dressing things. But you are very good. I mean, you dress up when you do videos and you throw parties in your videos and things. But I feel like you're like a good party dresser. I love to party. You love to party. I do love to party. I do now. What do you suggest to people as they get ready for holiday party dressing? I am going to Marissa Meltzer's holiday party this weekend. Very exciting. That's why you're not coming to my party. Yes. Which would backyard. Which I, you know, I'm disappointed, but I'm also excited to wear my new 1980s red blazer.

28:33It's going to be so good. I'm going to I'm going to get all the hot gossip from you and several other friends will be in attendance. But I will be can't wait. I don't I hope the police come. I do, too. Oh, God, it wouldn't be. I feel like I don't know how many people she invited this time, but it's it's. Hopefully too many. Hopefully too many. So what is your approach to holiday party dressing? If you don't have this high sport peplum, what are you going to be wearing? I feel like I wasted a lot of my youth and like prior years of my life not dressing up enough. I think that I, because I'm often hosting and I'm often cooking like one to three hams.

29:13I'm like restocking the bar. I'm making martinis. Like I'm working. Like I am working my own parties. And so it never felt appropriate to like get dressed up because I was like, well, I'm working right. In the past two to three years, I've started like getting people to help me like one or two people in the kitchen to assist to like offload some stuff. And with the additional help, I've upped my dressing game. I'm like, oh, well, now I can like step away from the kitchen at a certain time, which means I can dress up. so it was like a total revelation that while I didn't have to work the entire night I could actually put on a crazy outfit and like something that I wasn't going to spill ham fat on and because I'm like a pretty uh involved cook like I there's a zero percent chance I'm not going to spill something on myself so I couldn't wear something precious and now I've liberated myself from that and I really look forward to dressing up and so I'm like puffy sleeve I'm short something I am sparkle something.

30:13I am unfortunately like a black dress person. Same. But I do try to incorporate like a velvet or a bow or a lace or organza situation. I think that you can really ride the line between tacky and classy and push festive like a little bit without feeling weird about it. it's sort of like the only time of year to take advantage of that. And I'm like, why not? I think I wore this really fun like Nina Ricci dress two years ago that I, you know, the only bad thing about that is like you wear the Nina Ricci dress once and you get photographed in it at the party and it's like, well, when are you going to wear that dress again?

30:54You know? Yeah. But that said, it was sort of like not a dress that I would necessarily wear any other time, but it was perfect for that event. Yeah, I feel like it is truly the time to wear something that you wouldn't wear any other time or buy some like fun vintage thing that you would not wear any other time and just like enjoy your life. The one my one rule is I do not wear like threaded sparkly stuff. What would that be called? Not a threaded. I would do like a sequin, but I won't do like shimmery thread type. There is a word for it. But I took the red eye last night. Like shimmer. Like shimmer fabric you won't do, but you'll do sequined on a thing.

31:40Maybe. Yes, occasionally. I am just not a sparkles person for my clothing. I hear you and I'm not either. I own exactly one sparkle garment. It is sequins and it is completely see-through. It is long sleeve, floor length, skin tight, sequined. And I wore it last year when I was seven and a half months pregnant. And it was awesome. I wore a bra and underwear and that was it. It was so hot. And I was so pregnant. And it was such a good look. I now being un-pregnant, I don't know that I would wear it. I don't know that I would have the confidence. But I did have the confidence then. You're pregnant.

32:14I know. This is the thing about being pregnant is the only time many women wear a bikini. Yeah. Which is funny. You just feel a little bit more that. But I am taking those lessons with me now and especially into the holiday season. I'm like, well, yeah, I looked great. I felt great. I was like, oh, I am festive. And so maybe a sparkle or perhaps one sequin will find its way into my life this year. Yeah, I got some pearlescent big earrings and I have a red Charvet shirt. I'll be good. And I do also have this peplum and I also have a lot of other clothes that I have nowhere to wear. You do a red lip.