Shop Girl

33:39It's a different time and different thing. But yeah, I was very lucky, lucky to be in London at that time. Are there any photo shoots that are really memorable to you, maybe the outcome or just the experience of being on them? I loved working, you know, photographers that have like real vision. And in the earlier days when I worked there, it was still film, you know, people you would shoot film only. There was no digital photography. So working with people like Juergen Taylor, David Sims, Nick Knight, you know, just people who really, who knew what they were doing. You know what I mean? It's like they have a world, they have a woman, they have a vision, and you kind of just enter that world and work with them.

34:35And that's exciting. That's really, really fun. And there were less restrictions about like what you could shoot and what you couldn't. So I remember one of my Juergen Teller shoots, the theme was latex. so so we had Stephanie Seymour and Juergen working with a large format camera which was not at all his you know typical um technique and and uh and all the clothes were sort of latex and it's fabulous I mean beautiful like Manola Blahnik patent leather shoe like gorgeous killer shoes and her looking incredible wearing these, you know, full on rubbery dresses. And it's just fabulous.

35:50your questions that make it possible for me to provide unconventional and I hope entertaining insights on your money, more importantly, on your life. Follow and listen to Jill on Money wherever you get your podcasts.

36:07Being in that world with Isabella Blow and Alexander McQueen and everything, like, Cool Britannia coming up. Could you feel the, like, significance of McQueen and Galeano living in London and what they were contributing overall to fashion? Like, in the moment, did it feel as big as it does now looking back? I don't, I'm not, you know, I never worked with Galeano. I would photograph his clothes. It's less my sensibility in a way, sort of. It's a little too costumey. But Alexander, from day one, I knew he was brilliant. And that goes back to, like, in the same kind of way that Carl was, he had sort of all the tools, had full control of his work.

37:08Alexander had the same thing he knew how to cut, how to tailor, how to sew, how to and he had this incredible world that he was inspired by and his vision and he's it was just very multi-dimensional and deep and unique but just by going by the clothes I could tell that he was a unique very very unique once in a I don't know generation or more talent and I have some clothes that he made for me and some of which were actually at the Met exhibition because in I met him in very early on his career I always say I knew him really well before he became famous so those clothes just putting on the jacket that looks kind of like it doesn't have much it has no padding has no no not much structure in it but you put it on and it looks the most hyper tailored most precise thing I've ever worn and that's talent that's someone who knows what they're doing.

38:26So I always, I told him, I know that people think that this is something Isabella said, but no, she did not. I told him, I said, Alexander, you're the next Yves Saint Laurent. And he laughed at me because I felt like he had that, not the same way as Saint Laurent, But, you know, just the full picture of talent. And I still think so. I don't think there has been anyone like him since him. And, you know, it's just because it was him. And in the same way as Carl was Carl because it was Carl. It takes a lifetime of living and learning and practicing to become a master like that. and that's what you know alexander was i lived in the uk in the mid-2000s and i remember i went to this hauser and worth i don't know if they were opening a new location or something and they had this event in a courtyard that was tented and there was some sort of buffet because this was i mean i was 21 i had no money and i was always like going to events to eat for for free uh And Isabella Blow was there and she was wearing a McQueen suit and a hat.

39:51And I just remember it was the most chilling, one of the most chilling experiences of my life just because her presence was so, and I wasn't, I was really into, I read British Vogue as a teenager and was like it, but I'm, I wasn't super educated about, I knew who she was, but wasn't like, oh my God, it's Isabella Blow. But I just remember seeing her and it felt like the room stopped, like her presence was so intense for me. And I'll never forget it. But it it was such a when you in in the 90s as as the industry, like I think about it from the business perspective and looking back. And that was sort of the end of it being this cottage industry and everything started.

40:43The Arno and the first Pinot rose up and Arno started to hire all these people. Could you feel that change? Like that was like the beginning of the consolidation of luxury and it becoming really the luxury industry and not the fashion industry. Could you sense that then? or was it too early? Or what did you think of Arno hiring all these young guys for these jobs? Were people excited because people were getting paid? What was the feeling about it? I think, obviously, Arno is very smart. He knew that he had to bring in the edge to these kind of tired couture houses. And what a smart move it was.

41:31I mean, it's sort of, yeah, actually it started that big boom. But I think, you know, in Alexander's case, he was still, his heart was always his own brand. It wasn't sort of, you know, he needed the money, yes. But I don't think that was the world he was built for. But I don't think that you got that feeling so much in London. You know, London was always sort of like everything was done as a favor, as a freebie, as a, you know, nobody got paid a penny for anything that you did. So in London, you didn't really feel that there was a shift into any kind of more organized luxury kind of business.

42:18Like even looking at today, a lot of those brands never didn't survive. You know, sometimes I do a mental list of successful designers from the 90s in London and where are they now? And they're nowhere. Yeah. It's a different, you know, the axis of power exists elsewhere, did not exist in London at all. But yeah, London was always the pool that, you know, you went and fished your talent from because obviously that's their strength. They're not the best business people, but they're incredibly creative. Right. And then you moved to New York, right? As New York sort of starts to be more at the center of things.

43:03And was it personal that you moved there or were you drawn to it? What made you make the move? Well, I moved to New York. I met my husband in 2001. So that's when I moved to New York. And so, yeah, the main reason was really personal, but I was happy. I was, I felt like I was sort of done with London. Sounds weird. It's like done with Paris, done with London, forward motion, let's go to New York. And yeah, so that was very different. Then I became like a freelance stylist and worked with loads of different people, different capacities and different angles of the world of styling. And it was fun.

43:51It was great. You know, New York was really booming in the early 2000s. And yeah, I loved it. It was exciting. What did you think of the young designers coming up at that time versus the ones in London? because it's just a different, I always think of America as, it really does, like American fashion comes from 7th Avenue. And I think even when you look at the way the big companies are run today versus the ones in Europe, that history does play a factor. What did you think of all the young kids who were trying to make it in fashion in New York versus what you experienced in like at the center of creativity in London?

44:39I think fashion is a really, really, really hard business to get into and be successful in. I think it's sort of like a dream, but I think once the reality of it kicks in, it's not easy. and I'm not sure. I think the system in New York where there's all these funds and things that are like bringing up people, encouraging them, giving them money, it's sort of a little bit like false dream in a way because I feel like if you win one of these things, you think you're set for life, you're going to be successful, You're going to be all those things. And the reality of it is much different. And they also, because of the system, the way it works, there's always someone new, someone cooler, someone different, someone for whatever reasons.

45:39This year, it's about this kind of designers. As the years go by, you're sort of like getting lower and lower on that cool factor thing. And to build a business, I think it's incredibly hard. You know, I think it's you can grow a business. And then once you plateau, unless you get some serious money pumped into your business and smart people behind it. I don't know. Hard. Very hard. Yeah. I mean, if you look at Proenza Schooler, they're the perfect. not well perfect is probably not the right word but they are like the ultimate example of how challenging it is to incredibly talented people who took a lot of money really early and then they just every single step in their career has been reflected how challenging it is to build a a fashion business anywhere, but in the U S in particular, where there is this, um, there, they are encouraged to start their own brands, which I just don't understand.

46:52It's, it's not like you said, it's basically, especially now with the way, like the cost of raw materials and things, it's impossible to make any money. And, um, it, it's interesting. I moved to New at the end of 05. And that whole group that sort of came up with these competitions and you get half a million dollars or$200 ,000. And that doesn't do anything once you pay the taxes. I remember one design team, I did a big piece on the fashion fund in 2014 and I followed them around. I went to LA with them for their event and I became close with a lot of the designers. And there was one team who said, oh, if we win, we're going to, we're going to hire a full-time publicist with the money.

47:47And I was like, no, no, but, but it's a, um, what do you do with it? That is, is useful. It's just such a, and there was this sort of dream, I think after Mark Jacobs and Michael Kors and Narciso Rodriguez all got these big jobs in Europe that like you start your brand, you get a big job in Europe, you get paid well at that job. And somehow your brand also becomes a big thing. And it just was, it's just a nearly impossible. It's one in one in a million that succeeds. And it's, uh, yeah, I don't know. I wish that there was sometimes when you talk to young designers, they wish that there was like more infrastructure, like there is in Europe in terms of like, just being able to have a baseline of keep going without having crazy outside funding.

48:44Cause there's more help from the government or from the manufacturers, but I don't know. It's just anytime someone says they're going to start a fashion brand, I'm just like, you're a complete lunatic and you only can do this if, if you know that it probably will fail. But can I tell you something? This is something, um, that I experienced for my store is, is there is a thing called the parallel universe in fashion. So I call it the fast fashion and the parallel universe, which for me is much happier place. It's full of these brands that are small, but very successful. Yeah. And I always tell now people that if you're going to do a clothing brand, stay small, small, small, small, because you can run a small business in a very efficient kind of way and, and have a business.

49:46But where it goes wrong is when people think that being fashion designer is to be famous, to be like, you know, on whatever, but it's, it's, it's such a different mindset. If you're seeking fame through your, your work, you're on the wrong track already. If you are focusing on your vision, your brand, you're building a, you know, customer base, you can do something really good. And I've seen that many, many times. And, and that's why I, that was one of the reasons I wanted to open the store was to, to sort of showcase and celebrate these designers and brands and makers who are doing something fabulous, but nobody knows who they are in the fashion industry.

50:42And that's okay. That's okay because there's room for all kinds of people. But the difference being that these people have a business and they're not concerned about having a publicist or doing a fashion show or being at this thing or that thing. No, they're just stick to what they do and they do it really well. And that's just a different way of seeing things. But unfortunately, if you're looking for fame, then that's not your arena. That's a different ballgame. I wonder if it has something to do with the way society in America operates and what success equals. So here success equals growth and wealth, whereas maybe I don't know, but where you grew up, success is defined differently because of the way that the culture operates.

51:49I don't, I don't know for sure, but that is to me, I see it very much as like America is like a push country where you are supposed to big is, is success. Whereas maybe in other places in Europe in particular, success is seen as a example is this brand Norse projects that my husband loves. He wears, for a long time, they've changed a little bit, so he's moved on. But I remember he, there's one shirt that they make that he really, really likes. And they just, they made it for 10 years and they just stopped making it. And anytime he messages them, he says, I need something or there's no, it doesn't feel like they're trying to get big or expand too much or anything.

52:47It's more about we have our store in Copenhagen and we're going to make what we want to make and that's it. But I don't know if you view it that way as someone who's lived in all these different places and operated in all the different economies. Well, I just think that, you know, like I said, there's so many different ways of doing the making clothes, building a brand. And I just think the idea of teaching young people in fashion schools, the idea that the goal is to be the next Karl Lagerfeld or the next this or that is terrible because it's It's sort of like you're already shifting your focus on your goals to something that is so not realistic and not important.

53:50And so it's a tricky world. It's a tricky world to enter and you really have to make that decision. Like, who do you want to talk to? Who is your audience? Who is going to be your customer? Who is going to love what you do? But most importantly, I think you have to love it yourself. You can't start just pleasing people. That is terrible also. So I think that I'm of the mindset that I think there are some great big brands and good for them. I think the idea that you have to keep growing nonstop is frightening at what cost to, you know, to everything, the world, the environment and every, you know.

54:41And also I feel that customers, they're being duped into this mindset that you constantly need new stuff. Like the idea that we need to like rethink our wardrobe every three or six months. And it's like everything else you bought before, no matter how expensive it was or whatever, is redundant. I think that it'd be nice to kind of educate people. And that's what we did at the store. It's like less is more, buy better quality, buy less things. just buy the best version of something rather than buy loads of things that you're kind of just second guessing like oh this is nice this is nice um yeah i just think that the fashion world is is in a very very scary place right now it's it's things that are big have gotten way too big and there is not much air left for definitely nothing in the middle If you're in the middle, I don't think you're going to make it ultimately.

55:48And then the small brands, they're going to make it because they're smart and they decide to stay smart.

56:12or in the app stobern. Action, small prices, great joy.

56:43everything is sort of like a point of view. You know, it's like you work with, either you work for someone who has an extremely, you know, sharp point of view or, but you also develop your own point of view. And I felt like working for people, it was always you're accommodating someone else's vision. Whereas I wanted to figure out a space where I could say, these are my favorite things. and I thought a store would be like a nice platform for that. To be honest, I always thought, oh, cute little store, few things, I'm going to hang out, drink tea, and sell a few things. And next thing I know, it sort of grows into this big business.

57:29But yeah, ultimately it was about, I called it my favorite things. I felt like I wanted to show people a different way of shopping, a different way of experiencing retail. And that's what we did. I think I really, I'm sure I read about your store when you first opened, but I think I really started to kind of go on the website wormhole when probably a couple years after you opened. And I had been in Japan and gone to Arts and Science and bought a shirt and was looking. And you were really the only, you and Noodle Stories, probably the only sellers of that brand in the U.S., right? Pretty much, yeah.

58:15Yeah. There's been sort of smaller. But, you know, Sonia Park, who is the designer, the creative mind behind Arts and Science, is someone I've known, I don't know, maybe 20 years, you know? So these are also a lot of people like Sonia from Arts and Science, Christina from DOSA, William Wellstead. These are people I've known in my kind of previous careers and life. And it was a really nice way of bringing all their beautiful work into the store. Tell me about the store itself for people who haven't been. And it's like a farmhouse almost, right? Yes. It's an old, it's on the main street, Amagansett, and it's an old merchant's house.

59:05So it's very lovely. We bought the building and after we bought it, we sort of restored the original, you know, old part and added an addition to it to the back, but in the old kind of same style. But it's wonderful. It's got a porch. and then the interior opens up to the old part, which feels very charming, but cleaned up. And then the back is super high ceiling, skylights. It feels, people always say that when they walked into the store, they felt like it was almost like an art gallery, which I think is a little exaggerated, but it felt very like not your average store. it just had more of a I mean I did all the you know the visual merchandising that you know and putting it all together I did all the buying I mean I just did so much and we had Faye Too Good from London who did all our display furniture and so it had a really it had a really kind of nice balance of something very modern and a little artsy, but also kind of warm.

1:00:26I wanted the store to feel very warm and welcoming. And it was a great, fun, hard work. You know, it was all those things. But I loved that we were able to create something like that in Amagansett because when we opened, it was like there was a couple of outlet stores there. I can't remember what, Bass Shoes and stuff like that. But I like the idea that we were completely off the beaten track and we created this very successful, exciting new retail space. That region has changed so much over that period of time. Did you feel responsible for some of that of like having you, you created this destination that people wanted to go to.

1:01:30And now, I mean, that area is totally different. The row is in your old store, but there are many stores there. There are more people there every summer. What, But what is, how has that area changed since you opened? I think it's changed a lot. I mean, we were basically the only like a real, let's call it luxury store in there, definitely in Amagansett. But then I think people felt like, oh, this store is busy. It's doing well. Oh, maybe we should look into being there too. And then, you know, stores show up. And then, I mean, the big change was in East Hampton where all of a sudden it's like, whoa, they're all here.

1:02:19All the big brands are here. And I think there must have been a moment where people said, wait a minute. There is a possibility for serious business out here. Because before I opened my store, my dear mother-in-law said to me, said, Tina, why do you want to open a store in here? People don't shop here. And I said, well, they don't shop here because they have nothing to buy. And if you give them something to buy, they will come. And they did come. And I think retail is like that. I mean, if I wouldn't call they're like lemons, but, you know, a little bit like, you know, people like to follow each other and see if they do well.

1:03:07Oh, I want to be there, too. And, you know. It is what it is, you know, but there's definitely I did not know. I would be the first to admit that I did not know the potential for the business out here. and and you know obviously slowly but surely we found out and it's I would say this area has the single best customer base I've ever seen in my in my whole life anywhere like I I've had people come from London Tokyo and kind of witness it and everybody would say we don't have clients like this. And then that's because the, the amount they spend in the repeat customer and the loyalty is how would you measure that?

1:03:57Yeah, exactly. It's exactly, I mean, you, you, you create, I always said the Tina, the store was, wasn't for everybody. That was never, I didn't want it to be a store for everybody and anybody, you know, I want it to be very, very specifically my point of view. And I said, if this is something you're into, this is going to be the best store for you. And, and if it's not your thing, that's okay. And so we, we, we had incredible customers, like incredible. And, and, uh, and that, you know, that was the success behind, you know, behind the success of the store. What were people drawn to? What did you find as you started buying and people started buying from you, what were some of the sort of themes of what people came to you for?

1:04:56It was really about discovery. You know, people came to discover something that wasn't readily available elsewhere. But in the world of what I call that parallel universe kind of luxury, beautiful things, brands that you didn't see anywhere else, unique, kind of sophisticated, but easy, kind of real clothes, beautiful home things. Again, handmade, artisanal. I think just people came for the discovery. For them, it was like, show me what you have. Wow, what is this? And the kind of storytelling was a big part of the success of the business too. We always introduced new craftspeople, makers, and told their stories.

1:05:56And I think people want that. People don't want just stuff. They want something deeper, more meaningful. And that was a big part of what we did. You mentioned Faye Too Good. And I just looking back and looking at the way that you bought for the store and the things that you put in the store, it feels very influential in terms of what other retailers would buy. I'm sure a lot of bigger retailers would come in and see things. And could you feel that influence you were having on much larger department stores and multi-brand online luxury players, that sense of if you pick something, it meant something to the greater industry.

1:06:49Definitely. Definitely. I think I can take credit for putting some of these smaller great brands on the map. And yeah, no, I don't totally, because I'm, I have very close relationships with these designers and brands and they would always come to me and said, oh such and such is coming for an appointment and also what i would do sometimes is i would tell people like i would tell um carol from noodle stories and say carol go and look at this brand yeah noodle stories is a store in los angeles and amaris is in uh orange county both wonderful stores that definitely shared a little bit of a language with you although they're unique and just as you are unique.

1:07:36Yeah. I mean, you know, the beauty of these brands, smaller brands is that you can tell your own story. Like you would go to an appointment at Daniela Gregg's and you could spend hours and hours like creating your own collection in a way that, you know, you can't do with bigger brands. So you would choose your styles, your fabrics, your colors. So we'd all end up having something very different because we all have a different, you know, point of view. But, yeah, no, I've seen it. I've seen it in Amagansett, too, that, you know, as soon as Tina the Store was gone, that some other people showed up.

1:08:16And, you know, why not? I'm all for, you know, for people to be successful, and I want these brands that I kind of discovered and promoted to be successful. and it's, yeah, it's nature of the business. Everybody's, you know, you remember in the, you know, heydays of Barneys, people literally go to Barneys to see what they're selling so that they could, or Dover Street Market was a kind of a marker for a lot of people like, oh, this brand is at Dover Street Market. We have to have it too. It's sort of, it's nature of business, you know, people follow. Why did you decide to close the store? Which you did in 2023?

1:09:06Last year. Last year, yeah. Well, this goes back to the fact that, you know, the business was created by myself and my husband. My husband is the, I always called him my enabler because none of this would have existed without him. He's an incredibly smart, capable, brilliant person. And he carried all the kind of the heavy lifting of the business side of it and figuring out the building and everything, everything, everything. So my sole purpose and not purpose, but my job was to really to have the vision, the buying, keep the store going, the customers, all that. so he felt that the way the business was because the business was growing and it was very successful that we had reached the point where it was sort of untenable like working 24 7 you know yeah if when you own a business you basically live with it 24 7 and he just felt that it wasn't something that we could keep going in the way we were working and he's smarter than me and he said Tina you're not going to be happy if you keep going like this working like this and thank god for that and and um so I like the idea of going out on top like saying we did this we did great We created something successful.

1:10:39We can break it and we can start again if we want to. It's like you just know that you've reached a point where if I ever wanted to do Tina the store again, we could start pick it up from where we left. It wasn't it wouldn't be sort of like I start from zero. So it was sort of a perfect timing and just allowed us to exhale and relax and live a little and travel and just shift focus in our lives to things that we weren't able to do during those 11 years that we were working nonstop. So it's been great. I'm very happy we did it and no regrets. Yes. When you mentioned that people would come to the store for, they want essentially something special.

1:11:41And I think the industry has gotten, has reached this point where luxury is so mass that the consumers of fashion are really looking, the people who shopped at your store, I think there are more of them who want the experience that they had at your store. Maybe they have a different taste or whatever. They are looking for something else, but they don't have anywhere to find those things. What do you think the next phase of this industry looks like as it sort of bifurcates into the masses buying mass goods and the fashion consumer, the enthusiasts wanting something special. And that probably converges more than they'd like to admit.

1:12:34But I think it's a huge reason why luxury is dragging right now. People talk a lot about the price, but I think the big reason is that people are just really bored with what is available on the market. What do you think happens now? Do you think there's a whole new generation of retailers and designers who kind of try to do what you did? Or do you think it's just not the same business anymore? Well, I don't think it is the same business anymore. And I think to go back to that point about people being bored with stuff, of course, they're bored with stuff, because I think it's the too muchness of it.

1:13:16It's just you are being bombarded by stuff all the time. And at the same time, everybody has access to that stuff. So I don't know, it doesn't feel that special. And also, I think, to be honest, the quality of that, even that what people call luxury has gone way down. It's kind of shocking. And the prices have gone way up, the quality is way down. And I think there's a point where people start to say, like, I don't need another one of these things. I don't need another handbag like this. I don't need you just get like being force fed so much that you are like, you know, you're like one of those ducks that they make foie gras with, you know, you'd be like, your liver is like done.

1:14:05You can no longer digest any of it and you kind of go off it. But I think personally, I think there is an enormous need for great retail. Like people are ready and they're wanted, but yeah, there's definitely room for like discovery type of retail where you just walk in and it's none of that stuff that you see elsewhere. And not just the product, but also the experience of it all. I think there is huge demand and need for that. And I think that should be part of the future. And as far as then the big luxury, luxury brand, they're just going to keep on going, marching on because there's so much money in this world.

1:15:05And it might not be the kind of customers we had. My customers were not particularly interested in any of that. But there is always new people, Um, people who just want all the regular luxury, let's call it. Are there any brands that you're really personally invested in right now that you would carry if you were still operating that you didn't get to maybe when, or you had just started right before you stopped? To be honest, I'm not thinking on those terms. I'm thinking that if I was to do another version of Tina the Store, I would not do exactly the same. I don't think it's, I don't like repeating myself.

1:15:55I don't want to do the version of what we did. So for me, I would have to come into it from a very different angle and something different. different but in the kind of 100 in my sensibility uh but something different and I'm not seeing I can't really pull out you know brands and say these are the things I'm looking at you know in my own life I'm still very much of an arts and science kind of person uh and I still you know have my Zanini treasures that I I kept for myself for me these are like forever clothes and this is the kind of world I like to exist in. But yeah, definitely I would, whatever the new reincarnation of Tina, the store would be, would not be exactly the same.

1:16:56What do you want to do next? Do you have any plans? What are you working? Are you working on anything right now that you can talk about? I'm still dreaming. I'm still, you know, on my kind of inspiring and thinking kind of phase. But one of the things I'm really interested in, I would love to do some consulting. I would love to, you know, consult for people. I feel like I have this really good toolkit of experience in the fashion world on many different levels. And I would like to kind of use it for some brands or some companies as a kind of project kind of base thing. But I think ultimately, I think something will come up.

1:17:55Something will. Yes, many things. Yeah. Tina, we didn't even get to talk about The Row. Well, we can talk about The Row another time. I think The Row is great. I think there's a brand that has figured it out. I mean, big congratulations to them. That's such an achievement, especially in this country. and I think what a clever way to kind of create your space in that world and to have the balls to do it on your own terms and not do the same old, same old. I think it's brilliant and I'm, you know, seems to be working. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. All the things that we were talking about, about American designers and young designers.

1:18:47And do you think when someday we'll do a whole podcast about them, but do you think that their success, because I think that their, their rise sort of parallels so much of, of your store and, and they're clearly very influenced by arts and science and, and just, there's so much that they did that feels in connected to what you do, but they were very, very big from very early on in terms of distribution. But do you think it is that thing of, you have to like really have a tunnel vision and not let other people, what they tell you to do influence what you do? Because it feels like they just decided we're not going to listen to anyone else.

1:19:38We're just going to do it the way we want to do it. And yes, we're going to be widely distributed, but we're also going to only make the things we like and et cetera. Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite self-made quotes is, fashion is a dictatorship. It is not a democracy. It has to have that very firm, singular point of view and stick to it. It's very hard to, you know, once you start second guessing yourself too much, you're already kind of like on thin ice. But I think they have really, they've set the rules for themselves as in, this is who we are. This is our vision. This is the woman. And listen, I think that is their strength.

1:20:24I think some of the brands, a lot of the brands, they're just here, there, and everywhere. And I think you can't please everybody. Try to find your audience and please that audience. And then you're golden. Words to live by, Tina. Thank you so much for doing this. It was such an honor. And this is the longest podcast I've ever recorded. I'm sorry. No, why? I could talk to you for another two hours. We had to rush through a couple points, but your life is extraordinary. You really should write a book. Oh, maybe. Maybe. This was so, so great though. Thank you. I hope we meet in person someday soon.

1:21:02Me too. Me too. Thank you so much. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations. Gabi Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey. J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman and Bob Tabador.