Sweatpants (Are Not) Forever

0:28Hello and welcome to Fashion People. everyone. I hope to see you tonight for puck stories of the season Emmys event in Hollywood. I am going to be interviewing Parker Posey. I probably will not get a party girl reference in there. I apologize. I'm going to try, uh, Matt Bellany, our author of what I'm hearing and the host of the town, the great ringer podcast. And he is also the chief architect of this whole thing. He is interviewing John Mulaney for a live recording of the town. So if you I hope I see you or you I guess you'll listen to it later. Anyway, this week online sheet, you can read more about Pierre Paulo Piccoli's appointment at Valencia.

1:13I'm really trying people a preview of Chanel's latest financial report, which is being announced this week. It's the 2024 24 numbers, my best dress take from Cannes Film Festival, which Scott and I are going to get into here, but I have something a little more in depth and a whole lot more. So let's just get going with Scott. I know that's what you want me to do.

1:37Scott Sternberg, welcome to Fashion People. Lauren Sherman, thank you. What's going on? I just got back from New York, So I'm a little groggy and jet laggy. I know that a mutual friend of ours saw you there. So I heard you were in New York. Yeah, we had a nice, nice dinner. I think you may. Oh, it was someone else that you ran into. I don't know if you had had dinner with this person, but I think you may see this person at the Puck Stories of the Season event tonight, which you are now on the hook to go to because I am mentioning it. uh i will be there uh i don't know who you're talking about you're being cryptic but i'm excited to see robert chu oh yeah great you run into him yes yeah he'll be there it's okay he'll be excited that i mentioned him fantastic i don't know who the mutual friend is but we can discuss offline yeah uh how was new york was it muggy and yucky and you wanted to get back it was a rough week.

2:44I had a shoot a day and I have a dog. I couldn't find anybody to watch him. And it was rainy and muggy. And I hate to sound like a whiner, but it was not New York's best moment for me, to say the least. The best New York is when the weather is bad because it reminds you why you don't live there. Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, and then the flight back is great because you're home. but I'm going back in less than a week. Me too. Oh, nice. Yeah, I'll see you there. We are having another event there that I think you were not overlapping, but I'll give you the details offline. It'll be fun. So we are here to talk today.

3:28This is a big news day in fashion. On Monday morning, the announcement that was kind of brewing for the past week, people sort of knew that Pierre Paolo Piccioli, is that how you're, I need to find out how to pronounce it actually. Piccioli is the new creative director of Balenciaga. This was something that had sort of been brewing. And I heard something early last week, then it started to seep onto the internet rumor mills. And by the end of last week, it, it seemed pretty sure that he was, from what I know, this was not something, this is the last couple of months. This decision was made. It wasn't something that happened prior to Demna being announced at Gucci.

4:17So it's not like he's been waiting in the wings, which is interesting. And I have a lot more on inline sheet on Monday and probably we'll do a little follow-up on Tuesdays, depending on, on what happens. But what's your initial reaction to this?

4:38Listen, I think he's wonderful. He's fantastic. He has great taste. He has a clear point of view. I love what he did at Valentino, especially after Maria Grazia left. It became so laser sharp. I think the meh is more of zooming out, like the overall effect of all this movement at the same time, I don't think is a very good look for all these big global businesses and brands. To me, it just makes them all feel very vulnerable and too similar. You start to question, what really are these houses about if these codes are just floating between them freely all the time? but I just quickly scanned Vanessa's piece in the times and she made some good points I mean you know he's talented let's see it's just the whole picture of it is a little uh is a little odd to me yeah I won't be reading Vanessa's piece until mine is published because I don't like to be I don't like to get other people in my head but the thing this is what I use the word gentle because it's like, this is the end of this.

5:56And this designer musical chairs thing, as you know, this happens every decade or so. It feels more pronounced now because there are more brands, there's more money and it's much more, the information's more instantaneous. So we process it more quickly. But this was sort of a very gentle end to that, this round of chairs. There's obviously Fendi is still open, but that doesn't really, And it's interesting that he was very much top of mind for Fendi up until probably late last year. So I think he is, you know, he's a couturier. He's an incredible dressmaker. I've been to his couture shows, which is I haven't been to that many.

6:38And I feel really lucky. He's he is truly a remarkable designer. And I think you're right about taste. one thing I was talking about with an executive over at Caring is that he is actually very good at image as well, which is something that is, it's not missing at Balenciaga, but it, he'll be able to create a new visual identity pretty quickly. And also, I mean, the biggest thing to me is that his clientele will come with him from Valentino, even if they are still buying Valentino sure they will come to Balenciaga I think that you're right though in that this isn't something it's not going to move the markets and maybe it wouldn't have anyway because Balenciaga is like an under two billion dollar a year business but it's not it doesn't feel like the future like Jonathan Anderson and Matthew Blasi feel like the future and if they do well it could mean something big but if if it right now it still feels like is the industry in a sort of pattern and is it there's going to be movement at the end of this year and move into a new phase or is the industry starting to like enter its decline and that's a question for me yeah listen it's cyclical so it's probably on that arc of the circle right which is going down uh because that's it's necessary.

8:04There has to be some sort of correction. It's been kind of obscene just how much fashion is part of culture. And it doesn't necessarily equate with what the output is, right? I think both of us probably get more excited about idea-driven designers where the ideas aren't as much about clothes necessarily, but about clothes and where they fit in society now. So like Mewcha and Jonathan Anderson and Demna. And to some extent, Matthew, but he's sort of in the middle to me. He's really a materials, asthete, artisanal sort of guy like Peter. Raph is more the idea guy. But it's interesting to go for Balenciaga, which was an idea-driven brand, kind of by off of that a meme kind of driven brand and really a luxury merch business i would guess to whatever this is going to sort of trickle down into in terms of the ideas that beer paulo's putting out there it will certainly be beautiful the couture will certainly be you know stunning and i i love all that i think that's great um and maybe all those ideas will uh demna darkness will translate over to Gucci, but I have a feeling he'll, he'll pull the rug out from under us and surprise us all.

9:25Cause that's part of his, his, uh, his playbook, but you know, all the best. It's just the overall effect is, it may be on the cynic, you know, I'm in it, we're in it. Uh, but the overall effect is a little bit of a bummer to me somehow. Um, it's, it's not so exciting. Like I would have liked to see Junya or Mark, you know, like somebody really who, like Junya, especially really a thinker in there. If you're going to go, I don't know, go somewhere. Or Jun Takahashi. Or Chitosayabe. Yes. Jun would be amazing. Yeah. that's one that i've never understood why he hasn't but maybe i i do think there's something to not wanting it and some some people coming from a culture that like very i don't know of any of those japanese designers who have taken one of those jobs kenzo kenzo yes well kenzo was kenzo right it was kenzo that's right yeah he's still yeah sorry but yeah it's a good I mean it's a it was in he was in the system at least yeah Parisian brand yeah different thing different time but um yeah I think it's all look I think one of the big things is that Valentino was most successful when there was a really robust accessories program supporting Pierre Paolo and and Maria Grazia when they were together she's a great accessories designer.

11:03I think what Valencia Aga has done the last two years in the CEO, the deputy CEO, the woman, Natalie, not Nathalie, uh, Ren, I'm just not crashing and burning. I'm not trying. Um, it was just named deputy CEO. She's, she's the chief merchant. She's created this accessories program around Demna that feels of Demna, but is separate. And I think if they're able to sort of manage that around him and manage the the menswear part is the piece that I think is challenging because he was. I don't know. I have no insight into whether or not Valentino menswear performed very well. I bet suiting was did OK, but I don't think that's his strong suit.

11:48He did some amazing. Actually, he did some amazing collaborations with undercover for men's that were awesome. But I think generally the market, the critical response to the menswear wasn't as strong and it's a big menswear business. So I think that's going to be a challenge. And yeah, I think, look, I thought Peter Mueller would be great because I love him and I think he's interesting and I am a consumer of his clothing. So I was excited for that. But that said. he's great where he's at what a good match you know like this idea of people staying somewhere for a long time to me is kind of radical and refreshing yes and to your other point listen i think i think a lot of the job of this working can't all be on a creative director or in a bunch of design jobs it's really a merchandising exercise and extrapolating a set of ideas and this isn't cynical but i think part of it whether it's from a design perspective or a kind of culture-driven perspective, the creative director's job is to kind of create a whirlwind of something we all want to be a part of, right?

12:56Like, and even me, who's a cynic at this point, like, I wanted some Matthew Bottega, something, I needed something, right? I needed, when Bodhi first came out, I needed to get a little bit of that. I wanted to be a part of it. And I think that's really the job in the first, you know, year. And who knows? I mean, he's great. He can, He can do it. Go Pierpaolo. Go Pierpaolo. Congrats. I'm happy for him.

13:58So moving on to another brand that seems to be keeping its creative director, Daniel Lee at Burberry. The CEO Joshua Schumann did an interview with WWD where I don't know if he said he's staying. I didn't see that in quotes, but that was the headline. He's staying. I went to this event at it, which was the event was very interesting at Flamingo Estate on Friday night. They had a dinner, I think at the store somewhere with like really fancy people afterwards. But there was a kind of a casual event with Burberry at Flamingo Estate. but it was for their collaboration with high grove which is the summer house estate of charles and camilla which which the the reason i need to tell you about this is a i mean you've been to flamingo estate a million times it's so beautiful and i had a really nice time was it a flamingo event or a flamingo richard just ran it on his house it was connected to flamingo.

15:06The gift was a Burberry flamingo estate box, essentially with a flamingo estate charcoal soap that says Burberry because I handed it to my husband and I said, do you want this or should we give it to someone? And he took it and now it's in our shower. And I was like, what? Oh, fine. And then some honey that is flavored rose. So I won't be partaking in it, but that was specific for Burberry and then the book, the Flamingo estate book. So, and Richard was there and the person that he gets to cook a lot, who I have a mutual friend with, who's apparently amazing was there. Like they had amazing stuff.

15:48It was a really lovely, lovely event. And the funniest part of it that someone mentioned to me is that there it's like King Charles's estate. And then Meghan Markle had all that stuff with Flamingo and state and all this. Everyone who thinks that there was some sort of conspiracy behind this. I don't think that Highgrove had any idea. Sure. About any of this, guys. It was just Burberry being like, it's a it's a garden. It sounds lovely. But the thing that was interesting to me and what I want to know from you as a designer and a product guy and a creative director, everyone was dressed in Burberry.

16:29they had they were gifted a lot of people were gifted the the collection is really beautiful it's like painterly you can get a trench with like a painterly silk lining that i'm looking at it right now yes it's cute but um but the other thing was they just had everyone in burberry and my whole thing is that i think what joshulman should be focusing on is make everybody think they need a trench in the same way everybody thinks they need a montclair puffer and the Burberry trench in some ways is even more versatile because you can wear one in all different weather. And also it's just like a classic thing.

17:07And if you're not going to buy it full price from them, buy a vintage one. And I don't know. I love them. But what is your opinion about like what should happen with Burberry and how they should approach this? Because they they are like the market is responding favorably to everything. Right now he's in cost cutting mode, but they had one of the little anecdotes in the earnings report was that they had double digit increases for like wholesale interest in the collection, that type of thing. So they are turning a corner, whether or not that will be like a year long corner or a five year long corner is another question.

17:46But what do you think Burberry should be? Yeah, it's so loaded. I think, listen, I think they have a set of franchises that other houses would be envious of, right? But how to kind of infuse those with some energy and infuse that energy into the larger culture, that's a real tough thing. You can't totally control the cultural dialogue. It's sort of like surfing a wave, right? And what I haven't, what I've seen from Burberry is some great vibes on their social channels, right? They're picking up some British humor and the visuals look good and the feeling is modern, right? but I think what you said about the trench yes sure but that's a long lead one that's not something you you do with a few product placements and a phone call that's like tv and film and that's gonna that's gonna take time to kind of seep in I think to me their biggest challenge is their house check is so played out and it's a big franchise but it's I see it everywhere all over their site and it doesn't feel appealing and feels played out.

19:04And maybe this is my age again, but I see Burberry, London, and it should have one less zero on the price point. It's really hard for me to see a$700 bikini in a tan house check from Burberry. It's a merchandising issue. It's not hard for me to see a collaboration that's super craft driven and artisanal that did a play on that check that was all made by hand and it was$10 ,000 or something. But I don't think that franchise is being handled correctly, personally. And even from a trench perspective, they're quite expensive. I don't see the kind of entry level. So it's hard for me to totally, fully accept Burberry at the price point that it's at.

19:47That would be my first comment, you know, just based on the heritage and history of the house, at least in the last 40 years. Um, but that being said, I, and I think, you know, as a fashion brand, it's always a little odd. I think Christopher Bailey nailed it and you didn't realize he was nailing it at the time, but it just felt right. And he was really, well, cause it wasn't like everybody was wearing it. That's the thing. Right. But at least in the States, Becky Malinsky claims that people were wearing the dresses. Maybe. I don't know. The men's shows were so good. And I had a Porsum bag. I got a Barney's, you know, I wanted to, because I wanted to be part of it.

20:29Like it's the same thing where you want to be part of it and it's well merchandised on the business side. So enough of us have things that we can buy to be part of it and it drives the business. Um, but what he was doing was what, at least at the time, the playbook was great. There was a different distinct narrative every season that could play out across a global network of stores and wholesale partners. and it kept things going and sold all those franchises. And, you know, I think Danny Lee's amazing. What he did at Bottega was like incredible, that vibe shift, that tonal shift. I don't quite, I'm not quite seeing it.

21:05Like at the Met, it felt heavy and plodding and not modern. And I didn't know what all that velvet stuff was. And it also felt too like everybody was like matchy. And I just didn't get it. It felt like somebody was trying to make Burberry happen too hard. Um, so, you know, I actually think it's a product thing. I just trolled the site this morning because you told me we were talking about it. Um, and I just don't see a lot of stuff. I don't know who they're, who's buying this stuff at that price point. Um, the wit I'm seeing in the content, I'm not seeing in the small accessories. Um, it's, it's not quite come together.

21:45There's, it just feels too serious or something. I don't know. to a steer i think that the plat the check the tartan or whatever it's a really good point because i i want everybody to want a burberry trench and there there was a check that they did that was a little different that i linked to in mondays of a of a trench that i thought was really beautiful but yeah i think the other thing is that a lot of people are going to come through secondhand for this, which is fine. But the only way that's fine is if you have a product at full price that is also desirable. So maybe the customer first buys a trench on Etsy that's probably fake or something to get into it and then is trades up.

22:36And that part of it, if you don't you're you're right and also if if they had a trench that was i think eleven hundred dollars at this point would be that if that was what it was that's actually people would buy that but it's when you start to get into i think everybody right now is just like oh my god it's everything is four thousand dollars that is designer and yeah if you are buying that stuff a friend of mine wanted to buy a mu mu dress that was cotton it's it's four thousand dollars it's bonkers it's it's a tiny little it's and it's sold out i mean they probably just had one of each but or two of each but it sold out she couldn't even buy it because i was like if you can get it for i guess if you can get it for 2300 and you're gonna wear it every day this summer it's okay but it's getting nuts this is what happens to our brains no it's it's pretty it's pretty silly And listen, I think Burberry, yeah, at the high end with the right level of craft or artistry or collaboration or whatever can command super high prices.

23:44But a trench is, for better or worse, somewhat of a commodity culturally and from a merchandising perspective at this point. Yes. It's not something they can own anymore as their own. Or if they're going to own it, they need to wildly reinterpret it at the high end in much more exciting ways like Montclair does. I mean, the Genius Program, still I think about some of those things. But Pierre Paulo, when he did that, that was sick. It's amazing. So good. And the presentation of it was so good. And it was, it's stuck. So I think that's where the job is. And so when I see like shows and I see red carpet, it's like, I don't even think you should be playing in that field as much.

24:31Like, play with the iconography in the franchises outside of the traditional fashion and kind of celebrity, you know, mediums, platforms, and, you know, come at it from the outside even more. I think that would be my marketing approach, at least. Yeah. The thing that I keep thinking with Daniel Lee is give it one more season because I did think this past collection was much improved in terms of it felt like it gave me a sense of the Christopher Bailey era. It looked like it was designed for Anna Wintour, which, you know, and fine. But I think the thing that I keep going back to is I don't know who Daniel Lee is.

25:20I know what that Bottega was, which was so sharp that I bought. It ended up becoming too trendy for me. But I bought something from the pre-collection that was I ended. I actually just sold it. It was this great collar before everybody was making those collarless jackets. I saw that blazer. I made you try that on for me. That blazer's good. I sold it. It was too stiff. I never wore it. But what he did, it was very clear. And that was probably a mix of him and the team, but it was so clear. Ultimately, yeah. There was this sort of bougie 70s, early 80s Italian lady walking to, you know, get her nails done vibe.

26:01Like it was cool and weird and obtuse and specific. The Burberry stuff now, I don't know, I just don't, again, like, he's super talented, but it doesn't feel of the moment. I don't know, and I don't know what moment it's going for. No, exactly.

26:25so moving on to cam cam film festival it's been a little a little boring without the nudity i was actually when i first heard that they were making the dress code even stricter allowing no nudity and no long trains i was actually like secretly kind of liked it because i just i'm like give them give people a box give people restraint but what i will say is it's been a kind of a other than rooney mara and joaquin phoenix how good i can't handle it i mean it was so good my girl rooney i she looked amazing but he he also looked i agree what happened he suddenly is like a top 10 in terms of attractive Hollywood actors.

27:17First of all, his weight was going back and forth for roles he was taking. So he was like, you know, for the Joker, it was, well, for the Joker, he was like nothing. And then he was getting pudgy for something, for those afraid. So I think he's found his happy body medium, but no, he looks great. He's attractive. And I think the two of them together, they're so into each other. they like they're electric you can feel it yeah you can you there's a there was like a photo of them walking and i was like i know i know and then i tried to look it up and you couldn't find it forever and i was just like i don't understand yeah they are seriously i know my number one couple now i can't take it i know the thing about rooney is like she always gets photographed looking so serious and like daggers at the camera.

28:13She's actually quite a smiley, sweet person. And when you see those off photos, like you're talking about, where she's just beaming with Joaquin, you really get a sense of her. The clothes even look better. But yeah, no, she was top five for me, for sure. I'm so into it. She was wearing white Givenchy. He was wearing a Givenchy tux really quickly. Can we talk about how can more men wear clothes that fit them? Because it's a huge epidemic of like pants not fitting and jackets not fitting. As someone, you're a menswear designer by trade. How do you, and also you fit a lot of when you were doing Band of Outsiders, you were dressing a lot of guys who short, tall, whatever, not like mostly shorter guys, but like guys who weren't, it's not Joaquin Phoenix at this moment in time.

29:11Like anything is going to fit that guy at this point. I don't know what happened. It's very, I'm very taken aback by, but generally what are some rules for people? Listen, it's really challenging. With band, it worked from a celebrity dressing perspective. the severity of the silhouette and fit sort of created a box around who would come to us for clothes. And generally, you know, we would really only work with who it made sense to work with. You know, Tom Brown, sometimes it goes the other way and it looks completely ridiculous on the wrong guy. And sometimes it looks really hot, but it's tough.

29:48You know, you think men's dressing is so simple, but proportions are everything. And especially if a guy has a long or short torso, So it really starts to get confusing and anything off the rack has to really be rethought. Like where a jacket breaks on a guy with a short torso could really make or break that, that kind of look. It's, it's just all about, it's all about tailoring and silhouette. And as fat men's fashion has gotten more fashion with a capital F, it's like even harder, right? Cause there's just, there's, there's big ideas out there for guys. um you know get a good tailor on site and you know don't try to wear a sample off the rack that's my that's my suggestion i think everyone should talk to seth rogan because he his clothes always fit yeah on the studio they look amazing and the costume designers making it's mostly custom but i think he works with wendy and nicole the stylist he always looks great and he's not like he's just a dude.

30:51His clothes fit him. Yeah, and he looks good. It's not boring. But he's also like not going he's just, listen, he's going they understand his personality or he knows how to say no. You know, when it starts to be this mismatch between the two is when it gets cringy. And it really does get cringy. So anything at can that you really loved or really hated. Okay. I love Jennifer Lawrence in that kind of plisée Dior. Same. When she pulls that hair back and that little chignon and has a red lip, kind of that Oscars moment, she looks perfect. Conversely, she looked like Dorothy Spornack on the little eye with the Golden Girls in the soft look with the skirt for the press thing.

31:43It was shocking. Right. So that was a good sort of do's and don'ts moment. Isabelle Huppert is always like tops at Cannes. Like she's the she's the one in the green Balenciaga. Yeah. Yeah. There was a couple other things. And she's always somehow she's completely covered up, but she looks and she's not young and she looks so sexy and sick every time. And, you know, I want to get poor Emma Stone out of that Vuitton contract. it's so depressing jesus christ this one was it there's no excuse because the the thing i will say is that the witan stuff has gotten a little i i think has improved dramatically over the past three or four years where where there are some beautiful things and and there are jennifer Connelly could have probably worn that dress and looked cool.

32:41I mean, I'm being generous, but I thought that that mint green dress that Emma Stone wore that broke for the Oscars, I like that. I can handle it. That wasn't very even house coded, though. That could have been from five different houses. And that whole there's that whole world of stuff. It's that more it's more Balenciaga, actually. It's it's part of the it's part of the red carpet rotation. And that's fine. but it's very it's the vuitan red carpets of overall emma stone back in the day michelle williams was sort of caught in that loop i'm sure it's a big check that's hard to say no to but it's weird to me because on the house end it's there's not really brand codes that are being kind of cultivated or fostered and on the side of the celebrity it just feels like a miss it's like i want i want more for you emma stone you're so cute and your hair looks really good right now like go somewhere else go other you know so you just feel like a billboard and if we get it get it get your money but like i don't know well it's a challenge because i don't think nicola gasker he obviously engages and cares he has these deep relationships with certain people and i think when he has the when when it's the right person it can kind of work but it's also kind of comes back to like what are these houses for and what should they focus on i think balenciaga has actually done a really incredible job in the last two years of doing traditional red carpet but somehow and this the construction you can just tell is so good but somehow twisting it just a little bit that it doesn't feel totally separate from what demna does yeah and i don't think i think the we ton has gotten better and you're right the stuff that i think is better like what a lot of the stuff the Heim sisters have been wearing more recently is not of Nicola Gascar.

34:39Like it feels separate. And so, and it was interesting. Cynthia Rebo wore Givenchy. She used to be, I have a Vuitton contract to the Met and she looked incredible. And she actually had pulled off a lot of the Vuitton stuff. I mean, she just looks amazing. She works with Jason Bolden. I think they have a really good relationship and she just kills it. But I do think it comes back to this idea of like what should it be and it's interesting i think celine does a very good job at the this is i mean this is such a backhanded compliment but of the generic red carpet stuff they had a alexa chung wore this celine dress that i was like if i was gonna do some if i did do something like this it's what i would want to wear yeah no it and then listen even the ready to wear in the store.

35:27It's the same thing where it's exactly how that you want that vintage piece to be reinterpreted. And it's, it's really so good. Um, what I miss is, and this is not nostalgia, this is just something I always loved about fashion is that relationship between a designer, Givenchy and a, and an actor artist, you know, uh, Audrey Hepburn, whatever it is. And there's more modern examples of that albert and natalie portman or emma stone at the time like they they really felt like or mckelly has this with with his women like it really felt like there was a dialogue and a real kind of alchemy of ideas and body and you know design coming together and a lot of what this feels like is just sort of like just like this like slapping on this this rails of samples and just slapping stuff on it.