The Business of Having Good Taste

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2:17Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is retail savant Alex Eagle, live from Bister Village. We're talking shopping, Alex's fashion origin story, good taste, and so much more. before we get going i wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast you'll definitely love puck where i send an email called line sheet if you're a fashion person you get that reference it's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries line is scoopy analytical and above all fun along with me a subscription to puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more.

3:14If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I'm actually on my way to New York right now for a quick trip, and I'm sadly missing the end of Men's Fashion week, which was at least to start pretty fun despite the 100 plus degree weather. So it was like 42 or something. It was bad. I have a special guest on next week to chat about it all. But on the early shows I was able to catch, we should quickly talk about Dior. I thought it was a good show.

3:51There was a merging of the two Jonathan Anderson menswear shows. He called it a compounding. but I think I like more got it. The first Mesmer show I loved, the second one I was like, what does this have to do with the first one? Now I kind of understand and also I got a lot of really good feedback from readers, my reply guys who know a lot about fashion, who work in the industry and they liked it. I think the reference to Mark Bohan, the designer there for a long time when there were like tons of licenses and cool people have pieces from those collections. I think that was helpful he like referenced a jacket that he wore to an event and that kind of took him into it so there was a lot to like like if you broke it apart it was really good I'm also like finding the sort of real time dissection of Dior to be a little bit like too online for me and I'm trying to disengage from it for a moment the numbers will show and if people like it people like it if people start wearing the stuff and you kind of see it around.

4:59Well, no. And I think I liked it. I thought it was a good next step. It's incremental. It's an interesting narrative that 10 years from now, we're going to look back and be like, wow, that was a fascinating time in fashion. Anyway, fortunately, on Thursday, I missed Drees. I missed Rick Owens. I missed Issey Miyake because this annoying thing I'm dealing with that I will discuss ad nauseum once it is over, but I don't want to jinx it. I did make it to Orly on Tuesday for the first time I went to Orly and La Mer on Wednesday, which is one of my favorite shows. I wasn't at Louis Vuitton, but I obviously was looking at it closely and we should quickly discuss.

5:36So Pharrell usually works with the stylist, Matthew Henson. He left the LV gig. I don't, I think they probably still work together on some level. He doesn't work at LV anymore. That ended in January. A few months later, after Will Welch arrived to Pink, P-Ink, whatever it's called, Pharrell's Holko, they hired Charlotte Kalei to do this show. Charlotte Stiles, we talk about her all the time, Jill Sander, Orly, Baba. Sometimes she does high sport, which is obviously all my worlds coming together. I think she and Brian Malloy, they're sort of like the Joe McKenna's of our generation. she's guiding people Charlotte and Brian a couple other people are guiding people how to dress I don't think a stylist can save a bad collection but I think they can make a collection much better and I thought Charlotte there was something in a different perspective it there were a lot of people who didn't I the best way to describe it is there are a lot of people who did not know she styled it until after and that said to me oh I thought LV looked really good this time uh so I think she brought something out in him that or or started to tease something out that that wasn't there before for whatever reason um but yeah it was interesting and she also styled orally that night which was like all about untucking your shirt I don't know we just like it there the colors are good the ideas are simple it's what people need I also loved Saint Laurent Anthony Vaccarello showed at the Bourse amid the Pinot collection and there's this amazing Fujiko Nakaya fog sculpture in the rotunda right now that I went to with my family a couple weekends ago and so they lined the chairs up around the edges of the rotunda at the Bourse and the models walked on like the edge of the fog and it was amazing visually but I really love the collection all the brooch buttons the sheer taffeta windbreakers it was just gorgeous it's very influential and yet the opposite of what most people are doing although in some ways I when I was at the La Mer show the next day I was like this is kind of in conversation with the Saint Laurent it's like one person wearing La Mer for day and then Saint Laurent at night La Mer I really liked it very 80s essentially every season that's just like an iteration on the last i'm really glad i don't have to write vogue runway reviews because it would be hard to write about this and it's not it doesn't that's not what it's about it's like about incremental and it changes the way a real wardrobe changes gradually not overnight um but i think we'll talk more about that stuff next week and make sure to check out rachel strugatz's reporting on fenty and line sheet and all this data stuff we got.

8:26Lots of good stuff this week. Malik had a skim scoop. But let's get going with Alex. I truly enjoyed this afternoon with her at Bicester and I think you will too. Thank you all for being here. This is so fun. I've never been to Bicester Village before. So I'm glad to have this experience with you all. I'm so pleased to be here. So happy. So before we get started, what did you have for breakfast this morning? How deep do you want to go? So this is the most important question. Okay. It's half term in England. So I don't normally get breakfast with my kids because the poor little things get up at six and get out.

9:02So we had scrambled eggs. I try and do the glucose goddess. I have green things first. She's a life changer. I live near her in Paris and I've seen her at like the pharmacy. And? It's like seeing a celebrity. Yeah, it is. My husband met her at a party. He was like, I met the glucose goddess. And she's so nice. So nice. So nice. And I swear by that. so I did the greens and then I did scrambled eggs we've just opened this place called the corners the corner shop in 180 the strand that I would welcome you all to come to but there's amazing sourdough bread so I'm not normally like that but because it's half term and my kids are normally out after like a cold weatabix I actually did a bit of a breakfast situation and then I'm really into all this like bone broth but not real bone broth like mixed with the cacao like in a powder which sounds hideous but it's really nourishing I'm gonna send you some and I whip that up with like loads of collagen and like fiber and coconut milk and it's delicious and I make it in a big like Venetian hand-blown Venetian glass with a Venetian straw so it's like cold and delicious and you don't taste the organ meat tastes better because it's in the Venetian glass It kind of, yeah, I think it does.

10:15Do you sell that mix at 180 as well? So I'm opening a new space next to the corner shop, which is going to have like smoothies from like the genuinely really healthy. So like, like sauerkraut juice and homemade kimchi, all like, and those kind of like pickled and fermented foods, which is genuinely really healthy, all the way to the like delicious smoothies that aren't actually healthy, but are delicious. And so they'll, it'll be a sliding scale, but we'll definitely do like a bone broth disguised in chocolate situation. We'll talk about fashion retail at some point, but back to food retail for one second.

10:53When we were driving in here, I noticed there was an Otolenghi. And I was thinking about this because I'm staying at the Standard near King's Cross and I walked over to see the Yellow Bittern, which is a beautiful restaurant. and I stopped in. I was going to have lunch. I don't know enough time. So then I ended up going to Gale's and was walking back. Gale's is amazing. It's an iconic place. But Otolenghi, amazing. And I was thinking, I think London is the best food city in the world. Like there's just amazing food and there's so, it's the mix of the American bone broth, but then the sort of attention to ingredients and details that you get in California, but not a lot of other places.

11:36In the U.S., it's more European. do you feel that way that like now that you are expanding beyond you're doing all different sorts of retail and hospitality and all of that do you feel like there's just a big opportunity here for those kinds of experiences I think actually it's such an interesting question because I think in retail from the food to the clothes it is the same thing you're looking at what is it made from so the ingredients so the way I make a shirt is pretty simple it's a shirt but how it's made in England, with what fabric, in what craftsmanship that's maybe British heritage, made Savile Row for hundreds of years.

12:14The approach is the same with food. While bone broth was probably just in your stew and not in a powdered smoothie, it is looking at the ingredients and it is looking what's seasonal, what's local, doing the work for the client so that you're not greenwashing, you're not overpushing it, but you've done the work so that they're getting a product that is intentional, it is thoughtful, and it is kind of local, seasonal, organic, etc, etc. And that's a kind of amazing way to look at things like, is it a good product? And then you can make it a simple product like a celery juice, or you could make it a curry, whatever it is.

12:52So I kind of am approaching it in the same way, and always evolving and always trying to improve, I guess. Well, tell me about how you ended up opening up a juice bar. So I'm the creative director of this project called 180 The Thames, which is with my husband, Mark, and Nick Jones, who was at Soho House. And it's a kind of huge million square foot place in the middle of London in the Strand. and we were opening a hotel and a residence where we had to sell apartments and sell a kind of concept of coming to this area that isn't it's bang in the middle of London but it's not like known like Claridge's or Chilton Firehouse and so I thought well I would go anywhere if there's a really good coffee shop smoothie good yoga class you know there's not that many things like if I go to New York if there was a hairdresser soul cycle and smoothie place I'd stay there and so with that in mind we thought we'll do a deli so that the reality of how you eat isn't you always want to eat five star gourmet food you want a bagel you want a delicious coffee so we created it just for the residents of the building and then it's just taken off because I think people there's a real luxury in good food you know and people really spend money on themselves eating well eating something nourishing it's a kind of Instagram thing people want to have their photo taken but it's food and it's like it's a big luxury but people can justify it because it's for you you know not your nourishment yeah okay so fast forward way back yeah to long before 180 long before all this entire world you've created to being an intern in the closet with Emily our friend Emily Cronin who is here at Harper's Bazaar is that how did you know you wanted to get into fashion growing up?

14:46Like, what did you want to be? Yeah, I remember being about three or four and wanting to be the editor of Vogue and all my, and saying it at some dinner, like, and my aunts and uncles all laughing at me. I was like, what's so funny? And I was always drawing clothes and I, it was the late 80s, early 90s, I guess, and probably a lot of people who were as old as me in this room tore out Vogue magazine, stuck it on the, I did sketchbooks and And it was my walls were covered in black and white Calvin Klein ads and, you know, articles about Voyage and all these secret kind of 90s great places. So, yeah, it was easy for me because I always wanted to work in fashion.

15:28Thank God, because I transpired. I have ADHD, like a lot of creative people, but I had terrible dyslexia and school was a real struggle. Like it didn't stick. So this, luckily, I had this much bigger picture. So I could get through it and I could work on the side, delivering tapes for my dad around Soho and go and buy clothes. I could work in shops from a young age. You know, I could find, and I started to feel really good about myself working in a shop. Or when I started interning and working, I had a really good, I started to get a sense of self-worth and value. And it didn't matter that I couldn't pass an exam, you know.

16:07What kinds of brands were you shopping when you were a teenager and in your 20s? Joseph was a big one. I'd spent all my money in Joseph. I went to school on Pond Street, which is just off Sloan Street. And in the 90s, it's lost its way now, but in the 90s it was like a really happening place. And I'd go in on my school uniform and buy like one Chanel nail varnish or go and see the stuff in Joseph or Harvey Nichols. and um yeah I was never intimidated by by it because it was kind of part of my every day I guess yeah what was the high street like in the 90s here because growing up in America and I read British Vogue religiously in the 90s was obsessed with it um I was also obsessed with Liz Tilbaris who had been the editor and that was kind but that's where I learned about H &M yeah was because the British magazines are so much better about high-low and it felt like there was more stuff on the high street like or was it when Topshop became really cool that well Topshop was cool because I think a lot of the stylists who work with it shopped vintage so there was always this feeling of vintage and Topshop and the high-low and those famous jeans that Emmanuel Alt even wore and stuff.

17:25I mean, I think there is just a culture of high-low and there is a culture of style in England and in London, and it doesn't really matter where things are from. You know, the 90s wasn't really about logos or knowing. It was just about style and slightly scruffy style, you know. I didn't grow up where people had manicures and blow-drys, but they were the most stylish chic people you know that came much later so I mean obviously I shopped in the high street because I was a young person with zero money but I would I would I would I loved and I still cherish the pieces I'd saved up for you know from bigger brands so when you grad did you go to university yeah when you were done with university you started interning all these things what did you did you still want to do edit and how did you end up in retail so I did I went to university down the road I went studied history of art at Oxford Brookes and we'd get the Oxford Tube which is the bus back to this shop called The Cross which was in the 90s a really cool shop on Clarendon Cross in Notting Hill and I'd work there and kind of keep in that way during the three years I was at university and I'd like assist kind of dodgy stylists and but whoever I could in the holidays and then I came back and worked at this company called Granny Strock, which was like, do you remember them?

18:51I remember it, yeah. Yeah, it was like a, you know, great British brand and I worked there for zero money, but it was like walking distance from my home and I made money flyering on the side or waitressing or whatever. And I loved it there. Flowering? Flyering, like whatever, like making money. I used to do that too. Yeah, it's not chic, I shouldn't admit to it, but I do. I thought you said flowering and I thought you were flower arranging and I thought that was really chic. That's chic, that's really chic. I was handing out flyers on Regent Street. I did this also because you know I lived here from 2004 to 2006 and worked at Quintessentially.

19:23Oh, yeah. Did they make you flyer? No, they were paying me£17 ,000 a year. Oh, not bad. They originally offered£14 ,000 and I was like, guys, I have what is called student loans. Yeah. The£17 was good. Yeah, they really went up for me because they were like, okay, she's American. But no, I handed out flyers for stuff on the weekends to make extra money. Extra money. 50 quid, I mean. Yeah, it was crazy. And then I also worked at the Bond underwear store off of Golden Square. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's like the Australian, yes. That's where I live right there. Yeah, well, because quintessentially was in Golden Square.

20:03Yeah, yeah, of course. And yeah, that's my, anyway, I hijacked. So you were flyering. You were doing all this other stuff. Well, whatever, whatever, but, you know, babysitting, whatever. and then I got my first page job at Sunday Time Style at the bottom of the bottom but I loved it all the way in whopping and then I got a job at Tank Magazine and then my first main thing was at Harper's Bazaar where I went in really junior role but Lucy Yeoman's then editor let me style things and do my own pages and she saw something in me that I definitely didn't see myself you know she She'd call me into her office and let me, she pushed me to write and to tell stories because at the time I thought I wanted to be a stylist.

20:49And actually I was doing stories about real women, how they shopped, what they wore and those kind of things. And actually, you know, I didn't know that that was a job, but I really loved clothes and I loved getting dressed. and it just, it kind of ignited something in me. As much as I loved high fashion and, you know, super stylists doing these amazing shoots, really it was the real women and what they wore and how they wore it that, I don't know, clicked with me somehow. And did you stay with Lucy when she went to Porter or? No, I got an opportunity to work at Joseph, which I thought would be a stopgap before becoming the editor of Vogue.

21:30Look, if it was a different era, you would have been editor of Vogue. The world changed and now you're the editor of your whole world. Yeah, no, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. And I loved working at Hoppers. And then I worked at Joseph temporarily for about five years. And it was a great opportunity because I was in my mid-20s and I was working with a creative director who's now at Bottega, this woman called Imogen Crosby, who's a kind of amazing communications director, an amazing CEO and an amazing buying director. And because I was 25, I wasn't particularly good at anything, but I was the voice of someone at that age.

22:06And so I got to sit in on these meetings and give them input because I was young and they were all my age now. So we're much more experienced, but they wanted to have the voice of someone younger who was going out all the time, who was desperate to go to all the shows, desperate to go to all the parties, just out and about. So I got to go to meetings, I got to go to shows, I got to go to LA to shoot with Peter Lindbergh. You know, it was, I worked really hard, but it was a good time because I didn't have any experience. I was just representing my age group. And it was also such a, I think you're talking about Louise Trotter.

22:43Yeah. I loved what she did at Joseph. And I thought, I remember I met her. I went to a dinner that they did in New York. But I thought what she was doing there was really unique because that price point is, and now you're sort of in that price point. So you see the kind of challenges and the opportunities of that price point. And I always thought working with her, did you think she would keep going? And could you see that she was or like that had that drive? Yes, I do think as a woman. And then in my 20s and now obviously in my 40s, she made clothes for women to wear and to wear to death. And a uniform that meant when you got up in the morning, everything went with each other.

23:22And you weren't faffing about accessorizing. And that moment that we all have that I certainly had before I worked with her, like, I've got nothing to wear. and I feel fat and I feel gross and this doesn't look good. She gave this uniform that like just worked and that is something, that torch I kind of like, it's very meaningful to me to have experienced suddenly not to be chaotic and buy things in sales and buy things because it's trendy, to have a uniform that really worked for me was really valuable. And how did you move there to Soho House or? So then I got an opportunity. I was living on Walton Street right next to Joseph and I was doing things on the side.

24:05So I was like styling girlfriends for BAFTAs and it was all very different then. It was like much more tin pot, but like BAFTAs or events and jeweler friends would lend stuff or I'd lend from my archive and dress people basically. And then I started accidentally selling the mirrors and the coffee tables in my apartment. and my now husband then boyfriend was like you should just open your flat up as a shop and there was actually an opportunity in the shop opposite to do that and he encouraged me he's like don't do it like a shop don't get a shop fit out literally just make it all for sale like this flat and so I did I mean I really he was amazing to have seen something in me again that I didn't I just took for granted and he encouraged me, which was really great.

24:58And so what happened? So it was, I mean, there was no, what was nice about it? And I think everything I've done since is never to say what I am. So it wasn't an antique shop. It wasn't a multi-brand store. It was just a space that everything was for sale. So I developed a candle that was for sale. The records that were playing were from his, my husband's archive, because that was his obsession. And so I created a space that like sounded cool, smelt delicious. And then I worked with brands and friends selling their clothes. And then I bought and sold antiques, which was how I made money, really.

25:33And then it just evolved from there. And I saw gaps in, you know, when I left Joseph, that kind of idea of like, what's the uniform? from like embracing British manufacturing, which was really, I thought was going to be much richer than it was. And there was no manufacturing. And so I went to like Savile Row men's tailors and did tweak things and made it for women and started these accidental collaborations. You know, it wasn't like a world of collaborations then. And so to make product, I collaborate with, but random things like Swain Ailey Brig or New and Lingwood and these kind of old school men's kind of Savile Row tailors and tweak them.

26:14And yeah, and then started developing my own line of clothes from that, of like basically what I still make now. Shirts, a few silk pieces, linen t-shirts, everything in really nice fabrics. And then trying to push it all being in British fabrics and manufactured in London, which is still what I do. Summer break is here. I want my kids to have fun, but I also want them to keep their skills sharp. Between vacations and sports, I need something that fits our busy schedule without adding stress. That's why we use IXL. IXL is an award-winning online platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills, or reviewing science concepts.

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27:45How hard has that gotten with Brexit? Has it gotten harder, or are you working with such elite places that they are still able to continue? you? Yeah, I mean, the fact I don't wholesale, the fact, you know, I think it's been 10 years of like battling on and wanting to make things in British fabrics in London or in Britain. We even had our own factory in Soho making things because it was so important. And so Brexit is a headache, but in a way it doesn't matter because I don't have to make something for this amount and sell it for that amount. It's all up to me. I don't have to compromise or squeeze things into being this price to sell it to someone to then sell it on.

28:28That makes sense. Yeah, of course. Why did you decide not to? Because I'm sure you've been approached. Obviously, you did a collaboration. I'm going to just put this down. I don't think I need the questions. You did a big collaboration with J.Crew. You've done, I'm sure you get approached all the time from that, especially in the U.S., the big American wholesalers or the department stores. Why have you decided to not do that? I think because I'm not fooling myself. I am just clothes. It's not, I'm not a, I'm a creative director across fabric, space, light, tailoring, but I'm not a Louise Trotter.

29:09I'm not, I love what proper designers do, but I'm just making clothes. You know, I feel like if it's the fabric and the fact it's made in England, the design is pretty simple. So the problem comes when you try and wholesale it is that you're squashed and compromised in terms of fabric manufacturing. And again, I'm not fooling myself. My prices can't be Prada prices because you're going to buy Prada. So it's so nice when I've been asked and there's always ways you can kind of do things with people, but it didn't make sense. Yeah. It's interesting. Do you know Yael Aflalo? Have you met her? I feel like you should.

29:45She was the founder of Reformation, and now she has this brand of Flalo. And what she has said to me is direct-to-consumer is really, really hard the first few years. But if you can stick it out, it's so – and obviously Reformation now does do multi-brand, and they got to that point. But she's like, it's just a million times better of a business. You have more control. You can price it the way you want to price it. Yeah, you don't have to put it on sale. Yeah. So what was in the beginning, because I remember like the gorgeous suit, suiting and the knitwear. And then it sort of got pop culture when you started doing a little bit of merch stuff.

30:24That's really great. Our mutual friend Delphine has sent me hats from you. But what was the sort of initial reaction? And was it like the price value that people were appreciating in the suit? Yeah, I think it's quite transparent. Like something costs something. there's no added margin for like a huge team or a big bond street store or you know the price is the price it's pretty like transparent and then it does mean people come back and it's not super hot and therefore die it's consistent you know and that's what I wanted I thought there's all these places that men shop that are like being here for decades and they can buy the same shirt that fits in the same way they know their uniform they you know their size and I thought I want to be that woman.

31:10I don't want to be fussing in the morning about what to wear. I want to go shopping and buy my uniform. And then you come somewhere here and you buy something fabulous and different. There's always horse wiggle room for different special things. I'm not saying you should just dress in shirt and trousers. Although you look pretty great. Thank you. But I had so much fun here today. You know, it's like fun shopping and buying different things. Did you get anything? or you just like that? Yeah, I got loads of things. What did you get? What did you get? Tell us one thing. I got some stuff from Saint Laurent, just some stuff.

31:43I'm going to go. Yeah, go. Are there any jeans? Yes. Okay, I really want a pair of jeans. And Bonpoint, your son, would he wear it? He exclusively wears Arkit. Oh, cool, yeah. Nice. He is, I was shipping it with a freight forwarder to the US because Arkit does not ship. You've got it in London, so you just get on the Eurostar. now I can do it but and in France the Arkits don't have kids clothes but anyway I have friends so maybe I'll go to Bon Bon and check it out they do have adorable stuff it's really adorable while you can just still get him in it yeah there's an age gap where they're like no and you just want to buy yeah he still lets me put them in whatever I want okay good yeah because my son's nine and it's football kits only wow I'm not in the sun you just see that little skin with the plastic oh my god anyway back to your your wardrobe that you've created for yourself and then you mix in exactly and yeah I just didn't go the wholesale route I mean I'd never say never to anything and working with J.Crew was amazing because you know my team is tiny and we don't do seasons and we don't get the chance to make loads of things and the J.Crew thing was amazing because they've got one person who works on cotton poplin, one person who does denim, one person who does small leather goods, one person who, it was heaven.