The Devil’s Gala

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2:34Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Fox Fashion and Beauty, Memo, Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Amanda Dobbins, host of the Ringer's Jam Session and the Big Picture. We're talking the Met Gala, the Devil Wears Prada, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am making this quick because I'm off to dinner. Please check out Line Sheet. I have a big story on sax. I have all the Met Gala commentary. Malik Morris has a great piece on Heidi O 'Neill, the new CEO of Lululemon, who came from Nike and has become very controversial very fast. But there's tons going on in line sheet this week, and you will enjoy it.

3:21And I hope to see you all for the rest of the time I'm in New York. If I don't see you, I'll see you next trip, or I'll see you in Paris or Los Angeles or somewhere. But have a great day and enjoy this chat with Amanda.

3:37Amanda Dobbins, welcome back to Fashion People. I can't believe I got this spot. I'm kind of overwhelmed. Getting the Devil Wears Prada 2 plus Met Gala spot honestly feels a bit unearned for me, but I'm so grateful. I've been studying. I'm going to do my best. Please, you are the only one. As I have written, you are the foremost expert on Devil Wears Prada. IP and needed to we need to discuss it, even though I'm sure you're very sick of talking about it. No, I've been waiting to talk to you about it. And also it just so happened. Congratulations, I guess, on the Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively settlement or actually condolences because now what are you guys going to talk about for the next six weeks?

4:24I don't think there was going to be anything new to talk about. I also don't think that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni have the ability to time their settlement to be announced directly as the Met Gala red carpet starts. Like, I don't I don't think that they have that much control over the legal system, but maybe they do. I noticed the timing. Don't you think Blake is like, damn, I could have gone if we had only settled on Friday. I could have come back into. Do you think she'll be there next year? I hope so for her sake, because it all feels a little sad. But at this point, it's a good thing that they settled because it only would have made a bad situation worse.

5:09It was a real fight to the death. And we've had enough ugly laundry aired out in public. Yes. Good for them. Yes. And she has a right now has little else. So fingers crossed for next year. Yeah. So what have you thought? We are recording this as the live stream is happening. I'm getting texts of people that are being interviewed who have clearly paid to be interviewed or at least paid a lot of money for their tickets so that they got an interview spot. I'm not going to, maybe we won't name names. We'll see how frisky we're feeling. But what thought of the live stream so far and the red carpet.

5:47Also, before you get started, everyone who wants to see full looks and outfit credits, even tomorrow, you need to follow page six. Alana Fishman, one of my former colleagues, is the best outfit credit person in the world. And she's the best red carpet kind of fashion commentator out there. And before you even look at Vogue.com, go to page six. She is the best. Congrats to Alana. I've been using it as a resource this afternoon. It's been amazing. So I have not been watching the live stream proper because I am over the age of 40 years old and I don't need things live streamed. I don't use Twitch and I do not watch live streams.

6:28What is Twitch? I still don't know. I understand that the Met Gala and Vogue are trying to reach younger audiences in any way possible. And I've watched some clips. There was a musical performance. Sure. But I have mostly been consuming it via live blogs and page six as the true millennial that I am. And once again, I think we have a failure to communicate what the theme means. And does it I don't even know if it really matters anymore. I was reading all of the materials about the exhibit, which was open this morning at the Met. I'm based in Los Angeles and it was also not invited. So I didn't go.

7:04Nor did I. I think that there is always this introduction and this big trumpeting of what the theme is. And there's a very broad theme accompanied by a lot of fairly academic material that supports the exhibit itself. and people just go all which way directions. And I never know. So I've kind of given up trying to grade on the theme, if that makes sense. It seems impossible. You can't. You just simply can't because the theme of the gala and the theme of the exhibition had to do with bodies, but also was about art. And then the theme of the gala is fashion is art, but it's obviously very, everyone's talking about the body and they have Saint Laurent as the fashion sponsor and Anthony Vaccarello is a designer who thinks about the body a lot.

8:05Why they can't just have the same theme of the exhibition and the theme of the, or at least more clear. It's always very unclear. Like in fashion is art. Of course, we're going to get Monet water lilies on a tent dress, which is what we did get that. I missed that one. I've seen that. I've seen the double Madame X's. And I would just like to vote for Claire Foy for that interpretation of the Singer Sergeant painting over Lauren Sanchez Bezos. Did I get the name right? Honorary co-chair. Yes, I would say I thought she looked pretty good, though, in Schiaparelli. I was like, it's not bad. It's not bad.

8:49It was noticeably really subtle for her. Obviously, there are two points of physicality that cannot be subtle in their current incarnation. But, you know, the references, I think Charlie XCX is doing some sort of like goth Van Gogh irises. Like, sure, I love Charlie XCX. Everyone go see the moment if you haven't. You know, there's some there's a flaming June, which is what Chloe Mal, the head of content American. I think it's head of editorial content U.S. Vogue. I think that's right. Okay. I mean, more on more on Vogue titles when we talk about Devil Wears Predator, too. So she was doing Flaming June.

9:40You know, that's that's cool for the most part. Then there are a lot of people who have like embroidery, I guess. Yes. Lots of embroidery. I don't know. my feeling is yes the anyone who's trying to like really there's a lot of hands on the body like like sculpted hands sure on the body of of different lots of sculptures i mean honestly anna winter looks great in chanel the people who went super like all the celeron people connor's story is wearing a blouse he looks fabulous he was wearing a jacket and then he removed the jacket to show the biceps, but his train is still attached to his collar and the cape.

10:23It's wonderful. I'm really, he's on my best dress for sure. Good job to him. Charlotte Gainsbourg and Saint Laurent also. Like the Saint Laurent people look Loewe. Sarah Pigeon's wearing Loewe. Like the people who just wore the normal. I really like the Robert Woon or One stuff. Jordan Roth is wearing a very cool thing with like a body on top of his body, which is cool. And then Naomi Osaka also was wearing it. I thought that stuff looked really beautiful. A lot of this stuff is... Katy Perry's wearing Stel McCartney with just like a mask covering her face. Why? I don't know. She looks like a fencer.

11:03I don't think that that was the intended reference. I mean, maybe there's a famous fencing painting that I don't know about. Or sculpture. Why am I only sticking to one medium? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you that the Saint Laurent stuff works the best part of that is because they seem the most tapped in with what is supposed to be happening on the red carpet. And also it's what we would want to wear. So, you know, like Charlotte's game, Charlotte Gainsbourg is what I would want to wear. And I would also like to look like that if I wore it. Yes. As you would, as you would. I don't know about that.

11:34I do like this Ben Platt, Tanner Fletcher. Yeah. Which is like a definitely a fame maybe a Renoir or something I was I thought Surratt you know yes but I also you're more educated than no no no I just recently watched Ferris Bueller's Day Off with my kid and it zooms in on that Surratt painting can I just say so Sunday Rose Kidman Urban daughter of oh wow showed up in Dior and walked with her mom in Chanel and it helped me understand the Jonathan than Anderson Dior. Because I need to see it. Oh, I'm not in high school. And that's why I'm not drawn to pink ruffles. But I thought that she looked.

12:19Oh, yeah, appropriate and stylish next to her mom. They walked it together. Her mom, Nicole Kidman was in Chanel. And I was like, oh, I get it. Okay. It's not meant for me, but I get it. She looks awesome. Yeah. It's a really great look. She looks very cool. And the earrings and the whole thing, it's really good. And they look good together. And it is funny because it does contextualize both brands very clearly. Yeah, it's very funny. I wonder, I assume that there was cross communication and that both houses knew that the mother or the daughter would be wearing the same next to each other? They must, because I believe Sunday Rose, is she a Dior ambassador already?

13:03That sounds right. I think it might be. And Chanel and Nicole is obviously. So, yes, they must have. They must have known. I also thought that Bill Skarsgård looked really good in Tom Brown, who, by the way, in person, this family. Yeah. Powerful family. Huge Bill Skarsgård fan. And I will be honest, when I first saw it, I thought that he like he was dressed like a Nazi in a World War II film. You know, it's just there's like something about that jacket that I personally would have rethought. But that's just and the drape. But that's just me. Understand it. Understandable. Understandable. He's just like so I saw him at the Balenciaga show and I was like.

13:49I don't understand what especially in person, these men. Yeah, it's crazy. If they're tall and they can wear the clothes, they're really tall and they can wear the clothes. They're really tall. They're really tall. I liked Anna Wyant in Marc Jacobs because she just looked like a paper doll. And I understood that as like a different, which I know is part of the Marc Jacobs thing. But I was like, oh, I understand this interpretation. Yes. And also it's styled correctly. And they work together and she is an artist and she has created paper doll. She did like a whole paper doll house that he helped do the outfits for.

14:27And she did a painting for his last show. And he does all these paper dolls like that is that's probably the best interpretation of the theme. If you're going to really go there, it's full circle. And the styling in her hair and the shoes, like everything, everything works and she's wearing it well. So I was into that. Am I allowed to say things I don't like? Do you want me to? Of course, please. well some of this is just kind of what is your what do you respond to in both fashion and art but I respond to color so everyone who did the naked body conscious thing I'm thinking of Ashley Graham who is absolutely beautiful and has an amazing body and is just wearing like a nude colored fishtail it has like a lot of embellishments I'm sure like it took many many hours to construct but I was like yeah and she was she's hosting the lives she's partially hosting this live stream so I'm assume that was part of it too but yeah I did think that like pretty much all it felt like every silhouette was just an hourglass because it's about the body and it's like sure but can you the the exhibit itself is a lot about a lot more than that but you know people are not inventive and they just want to look pretty.

15:46I mean, that's true. I would also want to look pretty. I agree. I'm scrolling through the new things now. Beyonce has not arrived and Rihanna. Will she arrive before we record? Exactly. She definitely won't. I have heard there was a rumor she was going to wear Margiela. So if she does end up wearing it, the rumors were true. Okay. It was an educated guest by an attendee. and I will assume that Beyonce will be wearing Saint Laurent because she is a co-chair, Anthony Vaccarello is, and she wore a really amazing Saint Laurent piece last week. So my guess is that she'll be in Saint Laurent. But yeah, I'm glad Nicole Kidman, who was a co-chair, was there early.

16:32So we got to see him. Venus Williams was also there. You know, when I looked at the credits, it said she was wearing Swarovski. I don't know if they made the dress and it's possible. She looked nice. Well, the dress has a she's wearing like a jeweled collar. Yeah. So like I I can't tell whether that's part of the dress or whether the dress is just organized around that. Yeah. Janelle Monáe is wearing Christian Siriano. That's a look. It is. But, you know, she she goes for that. Yeah. We have Lafayette and Tory Burch. I know that Tory Burch. Oh, Tory Burch. which this is an example of, I don't care that this is not on theme, Camilla Marone or Marone.

17:17Yeah. She's so gorgeous. She's so beautiful. But once again, this is a fair, I guess I can't see the cape or the details. Is that beading under the cape? When you look like that, this is the most beautiful woman in the world. I'm obsessed with her. It's true. But this is kind of like when she was dating Leonardo DiCaprio and just grabbed like a bridal collection gown to wear to the Oscars one year, which is a true thing that happened because she just kind of wants a column dress. And it's true, she doesn't really need embellishment, but I would like a little bit more. I think she could wear a little bit more.

17:53That's just me. You know who I think is interesting? This Ashy studio, they dressed Jen Rubio, who is a new, who just, her and her husband, Stuart Butterfield, just donated$24 million to the Met to have paid interns in perpetuity. And she has this like cool bodice, ashy sculpted thing. And I'm just looking at Sabina Getty. And she also like, look, this isn't, this isn't what I would call pretty, but it's like weird and interesting. And I kind of am, and it's like a painted thing where you can like see the hands on the body. I'm kind of into like the bizarroness of it. Like I would rather that than some boring, boring shit, you know, like.

18:42And Sabine Getty also appears to be there's like a trompe l 'oeil hand over her hip that's, you know, painted on with the ring. And but then she's also wearing a matching ring in real life, which is posed a certain way. Which is weird and fabulous. It's cool. you know when your hair turns out just right and it kind of sets the tone for the whole day I feel like we're all chasing that but none of us want to spend an hour getting to that point that's why I've been really really into launch hair lately I switched over to their Axia hair dryer and the first thing I noticed was how compact and lightweight it is it just makes styling feel way more manageable especially on those mornings when you're rushing but still want your hair to look put together.

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20:57Olivia Wilde in Tom Brown wearing, I mean, this is some sexual stuff. It's good. Wow. Okay. Look at her. What would we call that? It's like a - That back structure. Well, it's a muzzle. It's a muzzle, but on her butt. Okay. And it's like a, it's a bustle, a muzzled bustle. That is some interesting sexual stuff for, you know, a powerful woman in her 40s. I am into this. It's nice. It's also I, as someone who doesn't have anything natural to fill into that particular space, understand how the structure would help. Yeah. So good for her. Yes. That's very interesting that she wore that. I wonder, I would love to hear Tom Brown talk about it.

21:45Oh, I'm just seeing Maya Hawke, who is wearing Prada and just looks very pretty with a full skirt. I don't really know how this is art related, but it looks nice. You know, Prada does a lot with the art world in real life, so they can just make pretty dresses. I was going to say Amanda Seyfried is wearing a very pretty pink Prada dress that to me is a reference to Gwyneth Paltrow's Oscar winning, I believe, Ralph Lauren dress. in 1998. Yeah, it is the same color, which to me was art. So that's fine. Agreed. I definitely copied a prom dress off of that and also could not fill out the top just as Gwyneth.

22:28Yeah. Sort of one of my friends, she brought it at Express because Express was rushing out those pink dresses in the late 90s. Thank you to them. Yeah, Express did a lot of semi-formal work for me in 1998. Express really held me down with high sport pants before high sport, you know? Yeah. And then, and then high sport came through with the technology I needed at the time of life that I met them. Oh, it's, it's too good. Um, yeah, look like, I think you're right that how do you, you can't really get this right at this point. There are very few people nail this. Do you care more about this red carpet more than the Oscars, which you cover as a film critic and a cultural commentator as well?

23:20Like, do you care more about this red carpet or? Well, I'm also a celebrity watcher. And this is one of the few events left where people come out and people put on a show and they know it's their job to put on a show. And certainly the wattage at the Met Gala at this point is is higher from a star power than the Oscars, just because they can reach from a number of different fields. Not that I know who everyone is. I've been Googling a lot of influencers in the past two hours. So I think I like them both. I also just get to be fully amateur spectator. And it is just about the clothes. And at the Oscars, you're like, OK, well, this is part of a season long narrative and she's been positioning herself as, you know, the it's time candidate and that she's been wearing this, that and the other where the men have just been showing up in tuxes.

24:16So there is more great stuff at the Met Galley, even amidst all of the, you know, hourglass nude silhouettes. So I look forward to it. Yeah, it's it's fun to watch it. And I think also it's more about what's happening in society. So I'm getting live texts as we're chatting. And it says, not your beat, but surprise, Casey Wasserman is there. Is that me? Casey Wasserman is my beat. He is the Olympics and all the sponsorships. I'm interested in the Casey Wasserman narrative. Hunter Schaefer loving it. Alex Wang is there. Everyone is uncanceled. canceled. But the big thing this year was about the tech bro takeover of the Met Gala.

25:04OpenAI has a table. I haven't seen Sam Altman yet, but I want to see what he's going to wear. All these Meta obviously has a table. Snap has a table. All these big tech companies have tables. And there's been so much about the Bezos's and sponsoring it, even though Amazon sponsored it 14 years ago. This is not new. But what do you think about the whole discourse around Lauren Sanchez? And Robin Givon wrote a piece for the New York Times opinion section that I got to be honest, like I fully thought was not what I really disagreed with it. And I thought it was honestly like really missing, not even misinformed, but like misguided.

25:47it was basically being like Lauren Sanchez is tacky and she like, look, this woman deserves to be there just as much as anyone else does. The reason you get to go to the Met Gala is you pay for it. And so I'm just curious, like, what do you think about all of that stuff? Yeah, it's interesting because it is just the transactional stuff made a lot more bare. And And as you noted, it is and has been transactional. And before the Met Gala really got it, she texted me. Got give me one. Just socialites donating to this. It was it was a charity ball, as Plum Sykes put in her newsletter recently. So I think you're right that it is just the transactional nature of this, which it has been the cause of the event since its inception is just being made more clear.

26:40You know, I Plum Sykes wrote a great newsletter about her first time at the the Met Gala and that she didn't really understand. And she just thought it was like, you know, another charity do, which which it is in a lot of ways. And it was populated by socialites before it kind of became the big celebrity event that it is now. So I think that people are just not used to seeing the work shown, if you will, or the money actually being paid or not thinking through it. And I guess it comes at a time, and this will probably come up again in our Devil Wears Prada 2 conversation, where Vogue is really trying to figure out what it is in 2026 and the kind of exclusivity versus accessibility debate that is certainly embodied in the Anna Wintour versus Chloe Mao, old generation, new generation.

27:38should it be aspirational or should it be attainable? I think that's an issue with fashion writ large, but this is, and, and, and many other forms of culture writ large, but Lauren Sanchez just very obviously buying her way in. You're like, Oh, okay. So now, you know, now anybody can do it. It feels a little less special. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, The other big thing is this year there were people, the baseline price for a ticket's $100 ,000 this year, but there were people who paid a million dollars a ticket. And I know for sure. Like, I confirmed it with many different sources. It's positive that there were people who paid a million dollars a ticket.

28:20And these are obviously people who would not maybe get invited if they didn't pay that. And look, like, that's the name of this game. But it's just creates a situation where it's not. I understand the motivation. They're trying to raise money for the costume institute. They're trying to figure out ways to make Vogue a brand that makes money outside of publishing a magazine and relies on directly on page advertising or what have you. But what it comes down to is like, there's no one who works in the fashion industry or who loves fashion who really enjoys this anymore. I think it's become something that is more of a spectacle and less of, you know, a thing that delights people.

29:10And that I think whoever takes this over from Anna Wintour in Anna Wintour in what, like 10 years or whenever she finally is like, I can't do this anymore. It might be 20 years needs to think about like you want to have goodwill towards these things, too. And I think right now it's a real mix. Yeah, I mean, it is putting on a show. Right. And it's it's putting it on for. Oh, did I freeze again? OK, good. But it's putting on a show and putting on a show is hard and not that fun when you're in the room or doing the doing the work and you have to make a lot of compromises and deal with a lot of people.