The Education of Nili Lotan

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2:40Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Buck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is designer Neely Loten. We're talking about New York fashion, starting a business in your 40s, motherhood, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all, fun.

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3:45Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you had a great week. I am in New York for a while. It was so nice to see many of you yesterday at Tory Burch's Founders Breakfast for her foundation. It took place at the Pierre. They honored Anna Wintour. Everyone was wearing, quite rightly, I'd say, Tory Burch and Chanel. There were two other people with my Chanel jacket. I almost wore it and decided not to. So I'm wearing it today for a bridal shower. Happy wedding to Gabby, Gabrielle. I'm very excited to see her uptown with some old school fashion people today. But anyway, everyone looked amazing. It was really, really nice.

4:27As we all know, I love Tori. She's, she's just, she's my president. But she and Anna Wintour, the thing that they have in common, they're both like politicians in a way. And I mean that in a good way, but they can get anyone to show up. And a lot of people showed up for both of them. And it was just really nice. So I was so happy, happy to be there. Last night, I co-hosted with my friend Dave Goldwights from Glam Squad, a private dinner at Gem Home. The food was amazing. Thank you to Flynn, who remains best in class. And thank you to Dave, the Glam Squad boss, for making these things so fun. I like the mix of the dinners we do together in particular, because it's not like the typical crew.

5:15There are a lot more Beauty Insiders. And then we have some mutual friends. So it was just really great. Dave's amazing wife, Sarah Christobal, was there. You know, we go way, way back all the way to Yahoo style, Sarah, when she used to pay me like four bucks a word or something to write. Who knows what? Anyway, I will be here for another dinner next week, and hopefully I will see you around. And if you can't get enough of me, because I know you can't, or Malik Morris or Sarah Shapiro or Rachel Strugeatz, this week in line, she was awesome. I had a scoop about Jacques-Marie Maj, their fundraising efforts.

5:54I had more on Delphine Arnault's tenure at Dior and how it's going. Rachel had an amazing inside store in the fate of Bobby Brown, the brand. Malik got into the future of Adidas, and Sarah shared proprietary info on what's selling best beauty products-wise. Thanks to our buds at ShopMind. They helped her out with that. It's a really good time. Hope to see you around this weekend. and if maybe even at a 10 a.m. showing of the Double Worse Prada, which I hear is actually very good. Thank you, Amanda Dobbins, for breaking it down for me on the big picture. Let's get going.

6:33Neely Loten, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you. Thank you for having me. What did you have for breakfast this morning? I have a tomato and cucumber salad, what is called Israeli salad. I had a toast with avocado and a coffee. I actually listened to you on, you were on Ruthie Rogers podcast, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. I listened to that. I love her podcast and love when she has fashion industry people on. and really enjoyed hearing about your food life. Thank you. Yeah. We actually maintain always a pretty intense breakfast. I mean, to me, this is the most important meal of the day. I know a lot of people skipping it and starting to eat later, which is a way of losing weight.

7:28But since I'm not looking to lose weight, but I'm just looking to be strong and carry on the day, I feed myself in the morning so I can do everything that I need to do. I understand. I think people should eat less dinner, but our lives make it hard. You're an inspiration. So how long have you been living in New York for? 46 years. Wow. You were born in Israel to European parents? Yes. My parents immigrated to Israel. They actually escaped from Europe in 1947. They were already in Israel. And they both came from different places and they met in a refugee camp and immigrated to Israel. obviously there was a mode of time when they were waiting for certificates to get in.

8:26And they came to Israel. I have an older sister. She's eight years older than me. She was born first. And then eight years later, exactly on Passover night, I was born. And they raised me in a small little town overlooking the Mediterranean, very peaceful tiny 75 ,000 people and close to Tel Aviv enough to be exposed to this was the biggest cultural city in Israel at the time, still is but pretty much quiet on the beach not much exposure to fashion very much keeping a European lifestyle at home with all that it means manners and etiquette and principles, lots of sun. That was my childhood. What do you think a European lifestyle, what does that mean to you in terms of like the way you lived that was maybe different than some of the people that you grew up with?

9:33I think there are certain values that I was given it from a very young age to quality rather than quantity, which I think it is different. here to history to past to know where we're coming from in order to know where we're going and i think these values took me and to become who i am i mean the the um the codes of dressing looking always elegant even though you're going to take off the trash outside the importance of looking good for your own self and not for others uh etc etc but those are the most important thing yeah i feel that one very intensely i spend a lot of time in europe and my family and i are in paris for a few months trying it out um wow i'm lucky dream my husband yeah it's really it's been really fun um my kid is learning french so fast it's wild but um but the thing that i've been i talk about with people here all the time is like the sense of dressing and taking care of yourself and all that is like part of the culture that it isn't in america and and it's in the same way that like education not outside of school i mean education in school is very different too but like the education you get around what it means to like live a good life is just very different here than it is in the U.S.

11:14And I remember talking to Robbie Myers, who was editor of Elle magazine for a long time, and she said she always approached her Elle as tried to approach in the way the French approach fashion, which is that it's just like another part of culture in your like your life pursuits and I see that in your work very much that like thank you there's like a pleasure and even though you do a lot of things that could be called essentials or whatever there's a real pleasure to like buying them and wearing them and getting enjoyment out of them that's it's interesting um what made you want to be a fashion designer or did you know when you moved to New York that that's what you wanted to do?

11:59By the time I got to New York, yes, because I was, I went to fashion school. So that was my journey. But earlier than that, so I was always, my strength was in visual art and that was my interest, not so much the math piece. It wasn't really more I'm always gravitated to the visual art and my mom was a textile designer and she came to Israel she couldn't pursue herself career-wise so she the majority of her journey was being a mom and a grandma which she did wonderfully and but never really pursued a career and she was very much my biggest supporter and fan to be able to combine the two and I think that she threw me she thought she would pursue herself or she wanted to see me continuing something that she couldn't and it happened you know I went to the Israeli army I was there for two years like everyone else and when I my service ended she actually pointed to me a school that just became recognized as an academic school that you actually get a bachelor degree and it's a full academic school and it was affiliated with FIT and this it's called Shankar College now it's been you know been there for years and there were 11 kids basically that got uh into the school i was one of them and pretty much curved my uh direction into fashion i was always interested in architecture and i'm actually now practicing it many years after because it's an area that i love but i think and i'm convinced that this is uh was a not only the right decision but really was the mission of my life.

14:11I'm not sure that the clothes are, but certainly working with women and providing women with what I do is where I belong. So I always thank my mom for directing me that way. I think one of the things that we have as parents, the responsibility is to help our children find their lane because we know them so well when they get to the age of 17, 18, 19, 20, where they're actually starting to take direction that I thought it was very helpful for me. I don't know if I would have taken this decision if she would have not directed me that way. Yeah, that's interesting. So that's how I got to Fasel. Yeah, and also it's just so rare to hear that a parent was encouraging someone to become a fashion designer.

15:06You know, like so many people, it's like, doctor, lawyer, I don't know if that happens anymore. I'm curious. Well, she was an artist and she saw the artist in me and they already went through the experience of trying to persuade my sister to be a lawyer and didn't work out. So they learned their lesson and they said, okay, we're going to let her do what she's really meant to be doing. And my dad was not a big fan. He, I'm sure, would have been much happier if I'd been a lawyer or continued his own business. But I think he already recognized the fact that we all each come to this world with certain gifts and qualities and we need to identify them and pursue them my gifts were very clearly into the direction not necessarily fashion designer but an artistic creative person so why push me to be a lawyer uh that would be the wrong thing to do and i think he realized that when I, eight years later, followed my sister.

16:16My sister loved to dance and they persuaded her to go and become a lawyer. She went to law school and dropped the last year and later on pursued art. So I think this is definitely a lesson to parents. Listen to your kids, see what their gifts are and just help them pursue them rather than pursue your own dreams. It happened so that my mom, Her dream was to actually be what happened to be meant to be for me. Maybe not in the same way, but she was definitely very artistic. Yeah.

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18:09What drew you to New York in particular? Simple. My husband at the time finished his, he was a pilot in the Israeli Air Force. He finished his requirement and wanted to study. And he was already, I believe he was 23. And so he was a little older and wanted to study in the U.S. And he basically asked me would I join him. We were just newly married. And I joined him. I had no aspiration to be in New York at the time. This was 1980. I would have gone to Paris in no time. I would have preferred to go to Paris. but this is where he needed to go and I joined him. And as we all know, the universe is accurate and this is where I needed to be.

19:03Yeah, are you happy that you ended up there and not in Europe, in Paris? I'm happy where I am. I'm happy where I am. I think I'm in the right place. I think New York had given me all the opportunities that I needed to really pursue myself. and I did I I took it and I ran with it and I think New York being so a hub for culture and art and so many foreigners and strangers I never felt that I didn't belong I was um you know uh immediately felt that I can is the place where I can pursue my dreams Through the first years, I've always had the thoughts of going back because, you know, we Israelis grew up with a lot of attachment to the country because of our parents' experience.

20:04So I felt that, you know, I've always felt torn, you know, not really continuing my parents' journey. But then I realized that this is where I should be. This is what's good for me. And I agreed with it and continued to just flow with what happened. So it kind of happened to me. And then I just, okay, it happened for a reason. And I'm just going to go. It really is the only city that I've lived in that feels like it belongs to the people who come to it. Like it doesn't belong to I interviewed Raph DeCardinus earlier today for an upcoming episode and he's from New York. But like and so he was talking about being friends with people who he went to high school with, which is so funny to me because like no one's from New York.

21:00And and that's what makes it especially when you're young. I think you feel very comfortable. I agree. I think what makes New York what it is, is the fact that everyone who comes to New York bring their own and whatever they bring in, their culture, their upbringing, their principles of life, you know, that what makes New York what it is. New York is a place where the people are actually, the consistency of the people and the fact that everyone is not from New York, that's what makes New York not only so cool, but the energy of people who want to make it, that came from smaller places, that came from places that they couldn't pursue their art or their strength.

21:49Like everyone is so driven. So the energy, like when I ever question why I'm in New York, I just need to get to the street and get the answer. The energy on the street is for doing, making, growing, you know, where in so many places in the world where you can enjoy the sun and sit and relax, but there is no urgency. There is no sense of growth. And I think if you're that kind of person like myself, that personal growth is the mission and personal growth is what I want to expect from myself. There's nothing better than New York. Be inspired by everyone around me and, you know, be pushed by that energy to the highest level.

22:37People sometimes ask me, could you have done the same thing in Tel Aviv? Probably not. And not because someone had given me a ticket here that I would not have gotten in in New York or because New York had it's about one pursuing themselves in within this energy I think Tel Aviv has a very similar energy by the way and so is Paris but New York is very unique well it's also the entrepreneurship thing in in the U.S. and I mean I know you worked for I mean I don't want to like leapfrog to your to launching your brand just yet but you worked for a lot of American companies that, you know, were run by the people who founded them.

23:22And it's such an American thing. Again, I was talking to Ralph, maybe we'll run these back to back because they're both such New York stories, but about his time at Calvin Klein in the 90s. And like, those designers were larger than life. What was your experience like getting into the studios at these places? Like, where did you work? What were some of your favorite places? And what did you learn there that made you want to launch your own brand? so out of i mean i worked for 23 years for other companies the one i would mention here that really impacted me the most was working for ralph uh and i think the re you know i worked for lise who as a company was extremely impressive from size from from organization from um when i say size i mean the scale of the business and their revenues when i joined them they were $2.3 billion company.

24:20We're talking about 1980. They were traded in the stock market. I mean, no one in fashion had brought themselves to this scale of a business that's ran so efficiently. Yet, and of course it impacted me and it gave me a lot of tools, but the ones I connected the most was really Ralph because being a creative person and my background, what I really was open to learn and hear from Ralph's business was him, was him as a founder, the consistency, the perseverance. He always used to say something that I took and I don't even know if he remembers I don't know anyone else remember that, but he used to say there's only one voice.

25:07And to me, to create a brand, you need one voice. All the other companies, when you have committees and boards and so forth, very hard to maintain a one strong point of view. And I think this is what I loved about Rolf. There was such a strong point of view, such a strong, consistent message. and so maybe the organizational skills were not there and maybe it wasn't as organized as clayborne and the certainly were not at the time as profitable as clayborne but they built the brand which was very impressive to me and gave me a lot of reason and thoughts of how to do my own and uh who was i with recently oh it was sid mashburn i don't know if you overlapped with him he did menswear at ralph but he said something to me really interesting he and his his wife ann own these stores that it's like very traditional clothing like updated trad or whatever um and in the south mostly but they have it in new york and la and i was in nashville and i he was in his store and i got to say hi to him and he said to me that one thing ralph said to him and i feel like you probably subscribe to this also is there was the era when armani was getting big and calvin and like the minimalism and all that stuff's happening and they went into him and they were like what do we do like and he said let them have their moment it's like well we need to figure it out blah blah he was just like let them have their moment it was so wise and like when you think of like long-term thinking and brand building and all that stuff like that's how you need to be you can't win every single season you can't win every trend if you're true to yourself and um and i just thought it was like chilling to me i agree 100 couldn't agree more i think that's that is and he won look at him look where he is now you know i don't think there is more impressive brand today representing the u.s fashion than ralph and i think he's a true um visionary and he got it and he understood it and he stuck to his own.

27:38I remember years where people saying, oh, Rolf, you keep doing the same thing. It's boring. You know, that was his strength, consistently doing a thing. And that's what really what drives me and that's what informs me. You know, people ask me, you know, when I'm inspired by it, on and on. I really created my own world. And if you could see around me, I'm surrounded with my own world that keeps me intact with the things that are important to me, the things that I love, the things that inspire me. And I don't go out of it. I don't leave my studio. I mean, I do, obviously, and I'm being inspired by films that I see and music that I hear.

28:18But the film and the music that I see, I choose. And I choose them because they speak my language. There's so much information today. If I am in a place that I don't feel that I'm relating to, I leave. I can't have noises. I can't have anything interfere with my clear understanding of what I like and what I love. And, you know, even conversation, if I see conversations going somewhere, I'm like, sorry, I got to cut it. I can't have noises that are not the song that I want to hear. And it may be an age factor, I don't know, but it's a certain maturity to understand this is who I am, this is what I want, this is what I do.

29:07And honestly, I don't really care what the trends right now somewhere. The trends are being driven and informed by what's going on in the world. So eventually, I always laugh and I say the trends find me because I need them somewhere, because I'm inspired by whatever's going on in the world. But I'm not really looking for it. I don't care for it. You know, especially in social media, I so don't care about it. You know, what's going on. you don't look at all and and use i am very involved in social media i do my own i don't look at others as my i look i look at the at the obviously the feeds that inspire me but i am putting aside everything that's trending you know i don't participate i really do my thing i speak my i speak my whatever i do i speak my my language i i talk about my brand i talk about myself.

30:09I talk about things that I feel for. I saw a beautiful movie. I'll talk about it. I'm affected by what's going on in Israel. I'll speak about it. I am very expressive, but only the things that really matters to me. I'm not trying to please anyone. I'm trying to communicate.

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31:51For the last couple years, I don't want to make you feel like I'm like putting you on the whatever that's called. So if you don't want to answer, it's totally fine. But like, how have you, with everything that the war that's happening right now, and all these things that have been happening, and as an Israeli and, and like, how have you managed that stuff? Because I assume that your team or you are getting messages constantly, like, how do you balance like saying how you feel about these things as a human and knowing that you have a fashion brand like do you produce in Israel too no no no no okay so without going too much into it I separate my my brand from where I am from I cannot separate myself from where I am from No, I want to.

32:47So it's been a complex situation right now without expressing my opinions. It's been complex. And I try not to bring it into my brand because it's nothing to do with it. My brand is an expression of a human being of me. I am complex person. The Israeli piece, it's a very strong piece of me, and I think contributed a lot to who I am and what I do. That said, my approach to it is really from a human perspective. So when I talk about, and if I talk about, it comes out of empathy, it comes out of feelings, and it doesn't come from judgment, and it doesn't come from facts, historical facts. It's really just one human to another and expressing empathy because we need a lot of empathy right now to everyone.

33:45So I don't really get into the, you know, the politics of it. Yeah. I never do. I really just express, you know, feelings. And I haven't been doing this recently because, to be honest, I'm really confused. Yeah. it's not good yeah so I'm just kind of waiting to see where it's going it's it's a lot I mean it's a lot for any person but also a leader who has a team and who is a public figure and all that stuff to navigate so thank you for being willing to to talk about it a little bit yeah um why did you start your brand like obviously you something was inside of you like this world was inside of you did you feel it for a long time you were working at other companies for 23 years was it building up inside of you for a long time or was it a sudden thing where you just like felt like i need to do this i think it must have as i do believe that we're kind of in a direction of something that we not always know what it is.

35:00But it's kind of with us and everything that we do leads to towards that, towards the next thing. So I am pretty much an entrepreneur in my soul. I mean, my father was an incredible entrepreneur and very successful. And I think I've got a lot of that bug in me. And when I actually came to New York and I was trying to look for a job and couldn't find any, the first thing that I thought is open my own business and my own brand. And I'd reached out to my dad at the time and he was, you need to give it a bit more time. You just graduated school. And he was right. I waited 23 years. And then I made the decision that I feel like doing something of my own.