The Future Is a Chanel Couch

0:04Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Cux fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Jesse Lee, founder of Basic Space and chairman of Design Miami. We're talking furniture, Chanel, Hailey Bieber, Versace, and so much more. Yo, hope you all had fun at the holiday parties last week. In tomorrow's line sheet, I will be sharing the best of the best, or at least the ones people are talking about and writing to me about the most. The one I am sad to have missed is the Dover Street Market 20th anniversary celebration. I lived in London when Dover Street opened.

0:44It's very formative for me, and it just looked really fun. There's a photo of Katie Grant standing between Ronnie Cook Newhouse and Sarah Mower, and I was like, damn, I wish I was there for that conversation. It looked great. I congrats to them. I loved over street. Big fan. Retail is life. Uh, line sheet. We've also got some updates from the world of LVMH, of course, plus Sarah Shapiro. My new amazing colleague is back with a revealing explanation of why road, the fashion brand is shutting down. Jesse and I get into that a little later as well. So not going to reveal too much up top by the way, we're nearing the holidays.

1:26So I'm going to be releasing a mailbag issue. Send me your questions. I want to know what you want to know. Lauren at puck dot news. You please email. You can DM me, but honestly, it's so hard to find those. Ask me questions. Ask questions for Sarah. Ask questions for Rachel. It's going to be a big mailbag extravaganza. Who was I talking to recently who was like, what's a mailbag? Oh, Kathy Horn. She'll never listen to this. So whatever. But I was like, oh, there was a question about her in a previous mailbag. And I said, and I messaged, I saw her to show and I say, hey, I have a question from a reader for a mailbag we're doing about you.

2:10And she was like, what's a mailbag? Needless to say, I didn't get a lot of feedback about the question. Okay. Anyway, love Kathy. I hope you enjoy this combo with Jesse. He's super fun and interesting. And we just like get through all the news of the week.

2:32Jesse Lee, welcome to fashion people. Thanks for having me. How are you? I'm good. How was your weekend? Weekend was uneventful, but a lot of catching up, been traveling for a while. So it was good to be back home in LA and just chill. So you just got back from Basel because you're the chairman of Design Miami. And your company acquired Design Miami a few years ago, right? A year ago. So yeah, we announced it actually towards the end of last year. So it's been a little bit over a year now. So over the past 12 months or so, I've been on the design art fair circuit quite a bit. So yeah, a lot of traveling, but it's been fun.

3:13so you know what our mutual friend Jason Stewart said at their live show in LA Halong Gong's live show in LA a couple of weeks back and I quoted him he said the problem with Art Basel is that anyone can go no I saw that I'm at the bottom of your newsletter I think like a week ago it's 100 % true um you know what's ironic is that actually long before we acquired Design Miami and before basic space even, I had a creative agency and we used to throw a lot of events and parties during Art Basel Miami. And the main thing was about, yeah, throwing those parties and events and everybody would just come into town.

3:56And so in some ways, I think over the past several years, Basel has become ubiquitous in many ways, for better or worse. So Jason's point is pretty accurate. So we're going to get into the news of the day really quickly, but I did want to talk to you a bit about this and then also basic space and what you do there and sort of your big design philosophy, your big philosophy about design and how it's the new luxury if you want to reduce it to that. But really quickly on the Basel thing. So it's interesting. I talked to a couple of people who, you know, I would say aren't like big collectors, but collect and kind of went for inspiration, Raph Simmons style.

4:40Definitely, as usual, I got a photo of someone at a gallery with Raph every year because I feel like he goes every year. He just goes to all these things a lot. But those people had a great time. And then it sounded like the people who were frustrated or thought it was just because after the first couple of days when the series collectors leave, it's become like super pro fashion promo-y just the way F1 is like has been taken over by fashion brands. There's just so many events now, all that stuff. As someone who is leading this different fair that is really focused on design objects and furniture and home stuff and a million different things, do you think the vibe at Design Miami is different from like the main show or any of the other shows that are happening during that period?

5:38Yeah, I mean, so a lot to unpack, but just to keep it simple, you know, we really do believe that design is a new luxury. And part of it is, I think, right, even you just mentioned art, but just to kind of go back to fashion a little bit too. So one could argue, you know, Fashion Week kind of went through a similar phase, right, where I think 10 years ago, going to New York Fashion Week show or Paris Fashion Week had some exclusivity and a specific, I think, moment in time where over the past few years now, it's become pretty ubiquitous in a lot of events, parties, dinners, presentations. And again, not a bad thing, just became really big and quote unquote more mainstream.

6:20I think similar things happen with quote unquote Art Basel or these fairs. With design, it's actually pretty niche. I mean, even for me, it's only been a few years or even a couple of years to be specific where I've gotten more into it. I think it allows it to be something more unique, special, something that you can live with longer. And it's sort of like graduating from fashion up towards design. Art in many ways, too, is unless you're really wealthy and you really know what you're doing, it's not easy to break into. You know, and it's highly speculative and it's difficult for people to just buy something, you know, in the primary market, something that's actually going to be worthwhile.

7:04So I think that's kind of the main problem, so to speak, in the quote unquote art world with design. Again, like it's a bit more functional and something you can touch and feel and use. And we feel like with Design Miami, we can create an environment where it's a bit more scarce. It's a bit more exclusive. I mean, the one funny thing that happened last week, too, was A$AP Rocky actually had a booth with us at Design Miami for Homemade, his design object company. And him and Rihanna actually hosted a very small 100-person private event at the fair after we closed ours on Saturday night. So it was truly like a night at the museum type vibe and friends and family.

7:46And they didn't go to any other fairs or any other events. they just came to our thing in and out hung out for three hours right and I think Rocky was quoted the next day in like New York Times or whatever you know saying something similar to what we're talking about how design it's sort of like the new direction for everything something along those lines in the New York Times quote so yeah so you run this in addition to to acquiring design Miami a year ago through your your bigger company used to run a creative agency and then a few years ago So I met you through your, at the time, your publicist, Caitlin Phillips, one of my all time top five favorite publicists who you were, you had launched this social commerce platform, basic space, which was like people who have influence, not necessarily influencers selling stuff.

8:39And let's not get into the business model because it's really complicated. Maybe we can do that on another, another, another day. But can you talk a bit about your, how design Miami and basic space fit together and your sort of thesis about design being the, like, like you were saying before, design is driving a lot of consumption now. Like you, you talked about that in terms of art, but what about, we've also discussed it in terms of fashion and just like general consumption with this younger group of consumers who's coming up who are wealthy. How does it all sort of fit together? I mean, basic space was even born from a simple concept, which again is that even for myself and my friends, right?

9:32We wanted a more curated platform or a place to buy and sell. and ultimately curation comes through right one's taste and style and ultimately i wanted friends of mine and friends of friends to be able to sell directly to others whether it's pre-owned vintage or new so i think what made basic space unique even four and a half years ago when we launched or whatever it was always a mix of pre-owned vintage and new and it was always a mix of fashion design and art we even had nfts you know in the early days so it was less about what we sold, but more about what we felt like was the next big thing and something that we cared about.

10:12And over the last two years or so is when design really became of interest, not only for myself, but a lot of our mutual friends, people that you know, and you've probably had on the pod before. And fashion just, again, became super ubiquitous. So like people start just buying vintage clothes or archival pieces, maybe if you want luxury, but then you get into like a privé daybed or a vintage G-Wagon or, you know, somebody else, you know, very well, like with what Bryn's doing with Dime Piece, right? Getting into Cartier and vintage watches, right? So it's a whole different, I think, movement that's happened over the last few years.

10:50And to me, design is sort of the overarching umbrella because it could be home, furniture, objects, hi-fi, audio, vintage, you all that stuff. So in my opinion, over the next five, 10 years, I think design will be sort of the next big theme and it can actually, it's the umbrella for a lot of things that's considered style. So last week, even when I was sending you topics for today, you mentioned there were two big campaigns that really incorporated design, big fashion campaigns. Can you share what your observations were and how this ties into what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, I just even discovered it serendipitously.

11:36Balenciaga had wiped their Instagram account and then started posting photos of, say, the Jurgen Teller campaign. And initially, I think the first dozen or so photos were just used furnitures in the middle of the street of Paris. And through sources, I was able to confirm that they were actually Demna's personal furniture. And then there's more coming, right? Then, of course, then subsequently they launched products, you know, on top of like, right, they're showing objects sitting on chairs, furniture, sofas, all that stuff, right? So super interesting and kind of juxtaposition of vintage furniture with new objects and fashion from Balenciaga.

12:18And then like a day later, Alaya launched the whole campaign with all their new stuff sitting on or in the spaces of a lot of the top design galleries in Paris that we work with or that show with us at Design Miami. So that was also interesting. It was a juxtaposition of like a privé table or a Perri-Anne bookshelf or whatever it may be with a new bag and pieces coming from Alaya. Did you see the new Alaya store in London photos of it? No, you need to check it out. I don't know who did the interiors, but it's I linked to it in line sheet and just said this is like what shopping tourism is about.

12:59But they have a whole library. I'm sure it's you can buy stuff and a cafe and Violet London, East London cake shop is doing the pastries and things. But sure, that's great for any of us who who eat. It sounds good. But the thing that I was just blown away by is the look of the of the library area. It just is absolutely next level. I love the clothes. It's like the only brand I buy right now that that I'm interested in at full price or at retail or whatever. But the library was the thing I was really excited about. I think it really speaks to everything you're saying. Yeah, I mean, I think future of retail or especially luxury fashion, right?

13:48I think it's pretty clear. Online business has changed quite a bit. And I think the smartest brands are going to focus on their retail experience and especially for a luxury fashion house. I think it has to be part of that, right? People are paying for the experience, whether it's online, offline. And I think post-COVID now, it really gives them opportunity to own the space and present what they want their brand to be. So the last time I think I ran into you was actually at the Bottega Veneta show in Milan last, what would that have been? Like September, October? October. And we were seated. Maybe they knew we both live in L.A.

14:34or something. I don't know. It was funny that we were seated next to each other. But you ended up selling those chairs at Design Miami, right? So just to be specific, the chairs that we had a week ago, they're on display. Technically, there are limited quantity available for sale through Bottega's VIC program. And we have a project we'll announce shortly soon where we'll have access to some as well. So a lot of them are already allocated and spoken for, and there's very few amounts left potentially for sale. And can you share a little bit of, they were animal beanbags. Everybody was given the PRs chose specific beanbags for specific people.

15:21So yeah. Do you feel like your animal choice reflected who you are? Which one did you say? I honestly can't remember, which is, I have a photo of it. I think it was a rabbit. It wasn't, it was, I would have picked a penguin personally for myself, but there were not many penguins. So I also think, I mean, look like there were, it was prioritized of, of, you know, the, the people in the front row definitely got a little bit more, um, they made sure Jacob and had the right ones, had the right ones. Maybe, maybe I think mine was like a chick, like the baby chick or something. I think there was, there was one that I was really drawn to.

16:07Maybe it wasn't the, I just liked the penguin. I, there was one that I was like, oh, that should have, I should have been that, but I can't remember now. It's fine. They were cute. But who, who is the artist who did them? So Zenota, those are the Sacco chairs. So it's actually an Italian brand that Matthew and Bottega collaborated with. Similar to like when they did two years ago with Gatano Pecce, right? Yeah. They kind of select a partner. And then obviously. Here's my invite. I know. I've seen actually so many of those, not just the Bottega show, but Gitano was like famous for sending really cool creative invites for design shows too.

16:48So, yeah. You know, honestly, if I was rich, I would have bought one of the Gitano Peche chairs from that show. They were awesome. I might be able to get you access to one. Okay. I need to sell a couple books. I need to do something to be able to buy one.

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17:43What do you think of Mathieu Blasey going to Chanel? So you were obviously very familiar with his work at Bottega, and especially because he was so obsessed with craft and design, and there was like a real, I'm sure they would have ended up entering home. I mean, they sort of had, they, they opened this maison in New York. It was just like a, a really beautiful, they just did that beautiful space. The, even the perfume bottle of the fragrance that they launched was like so beautiful in design and a real object. I have also have this with me from the invite from a previous invite. Yeah, I mean, they always have really cool invitations.

18:27I have a couple of things too. But I mean, like, even if you've gone to their stores, right, as well as even their office, actually, like they have amazing furniture and always had that. So I think Matthew was definitely a trailblazer, you know, among others and incorporating design into not only the show, but then eventually, right, selling them as part of their offering. um what are my thoughts on him going to chanel i mean i think you know i've been listening obviously to some of your podcasts and reading line sheets and from from the beginning there were so many speculations of others and matthew seemed to be kind of like an underdog slash kind of came out of nowhere but didn't really because if you really think about it it makes sense um he's still very young and to your point he he's he's very articulate and i think what he wants to show.

19:20And even, I don't know if many people know this, but I believe his dad either was an art design antique dealer, has sort of background in design art world. So I think Matthew's like point of view on like what he's incorporating and how he's utilizing design is all part of it all. And then to your earlier point about the Alaya store in London, I think what I'm excited to see with Chanel too is perhaps Matthew can like reimagine even the store experience, right? So it's not just about going there and shopping and perhaps different way of experiencing Chanel. Yeah. Like God bless Peter Marino, but let's do something different people.

19:58Let's do something different. I hear the thing that I, I think is interesting that I actually haven't written yet and someday I'll incorporate it into something, but his title there is interesting. His title is artistic director of fashion creations. So that is a very specific title. And that to me says that they want him to focus and want him to take his time and create things and less about, you know, if they had, if they had hired someone like Simone Jacquemus, it would have been very much about let's overhaul this image because he is just his his talent is being able to like recreate an image.

20:43And so I think that this is going to be like a very cerebral experience. And also for the it's going to be the next nine months. He's not showing his first collection until October. But I you're exactly right. Like when his name first popped up, I was kind of like, okay, everybody chill out because he wasn't, I said this a couple of weeks ago. If you look him up on Getty, there are only 40 images. And honestly, they're probably really only 10 because that's just 10 images of four different angles or whatever. He's not a public person. And so what I had heard internally from people at Chanel was that Lena Nair, the global CEO, her big idea for the business is A, to make it less siloed in some ways where all the different departments work together closely, but then in other ways make it more like everybody has a specific job.

21:48And so there isn't one person kind of running the whole ship that is. So I know those things kind of sound the opposite, but it's like cross-functional. It's a very modern way of working. And that and, you know, they have been working a different way for the last 45 years. So when they talked about they wanted someone who would be there for 20 more years, who it wasn't really, they were looking at the way Hermes runs their business, which their designers have public profiles. People know who they are. They do press. They're excited about them, but it's not about the designers. It's about Hermes and Hermes is the star.

22:31And I think very early on in the conversations I had heard that, but it was just really hard for me to believe personally, just because Chanel is a tour house. It's not, it's not a leather goods house. And so that is just requires a different, I thought a different kind of personality, but the reality is that I think they're right. Like Chanel is a huge brand and there are people in this world who don't know that Coco Chanel is dead. Like there it's, and I, I make that joke a lot, but it's very true. It's not as much about it's about the idea of the brand and less about some person running it.

23:12And I think it was really brave of them to hire him. And I also think that it's going to pay out the what he's capable of. We don't even know. And and so if he if he's capable of any more than he's already done, it's going to be a success. And so it's it's interesting. I'm excited to see what they do. Could you imagine them getting more into home and design, or do you think that that's too far outside of their purview? No, I think it's a strong possibility because you kind of need to go where the next consumer is going or are going to want, right? So I think the previous generation may have wanted certain types of products, couture and leather goods or bags and the shoes.

23:59I've heard you talk about like women that wear the Chanel flats and they don't really care who the designer is. But perhaps for those that are quote unquote millennial Gen Z, right? Like their version of a luxury may be different than that. So I think it's something that they should definitely consider. But just to add to your point, though, because I think you I think it was you that wrote about this, too, about hiring Matthew may be another like a broader signal to luxury fashion houses. and perhaps it's more about the skill and the craftsmanship than being a marketer or like a brand manager.

24:32Is that? Yeah. I think that works for like Chanel. I think a hundred percent makes sense, but there are probably some fashion houses where you do need a personality or someone to maybe pull the brand up or at least into the zeitgeist. So it's probably a mix of the two, but I think for Chanel, it's probably the right move. And it also the pendulum swing. So I mentioned Virgil Abloh, my editor was like, can you give some examples of these brand manager types? And I mentioned Virgil because that's the most successful example of it. Like, yes, he's a designer. He was more of a product designer than a fashion designer.

25:09And you could also argue that Jonathan Anderson is more of a product designer than a fashion designer that he doesn't sketch. But I don't I don't think it's negative. I think it's just that, like people saw the success of Virgil in particular, and they thought, let me just get someone who's cool, who understands what's cool and who understands what product is cool and put them in this job. And the reality is like Virgil is so much more complex and special than that. And so you can't just and what's going to happen now is like and we already see this. People are hiring like quote unquote real designers for these jobs.

25:51And it's going to be the trend for the next year. And most of them won't work because it's not the right fit. They're not thinking about what is right for their brand. And, and the unfortunate thing about this industry is that people do tend to wait and see. There aren't a lot of brands like Chanel that have the confidence. Like if Matt two doesn't work out, Chanel is going to be fine. They'll figure something else out. Look at Virginie BR, you know, she was, she kind of managed it for five years and it was okay. It wasn't the best thing in the world, but looking back, like it was also, wasn't the worst thing that could have happened to them.

26:32And, and the brand is stronger than ever, so they'll be okay. But, um, I think a lot of these smaller brands tend to kind of follow the leader instead of thinking about what's totally right for them. Uh, on that note, there was a report in women's where daily late last week that Capri, the owner of Michael Kors, Jimmy Choo and Versace were going to, was going to try to, because they, their merger with tapestry didn't happen. They had engaged a bank to try to sell off Versace and Jimmy Choo. This is not really news. We knew this was going to happen. That was, it was pretty much, I don't know if people thought it would, it would be now, maybe they would wait till next year, but because the deal got dissolved earlier than February, 2025, as previously expected, they're on it.

27:27And they're like, we got it. We got to get rid of this stuff.

27:36I wanted to ask you, and I'm going to write a lot more about this later in line sheet later this week. I want to ask you specifically about Versace and what you think about that brand. Because to me, from a home design perspective, A, they already have that business. And also there's a lot of Versace, not a lot, but there are Versace branded homes, apartments, like luxury condos and stuff in the world. I could see very, very easily some sort of Versace, um, hotel type thing, but they haven't gone there. Do you have a, like a quick hit analysis of what that brand of that brand and what you think its potential is from a design perspective?