Blue Heron: A Lyrical Debut — and an Early Golden Brick Contender

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24:02Adam Kempenaar:Just the way Ramvari's camera focuses on the mom's hands getting into the potatoes and the squishy sound of it. That's the kind of thing we remember from our childhoods, watching and paying attention and noticing that and feeling like that's how this is made. My mom has to do that. My dad has to do that. Their hands get that dirty. And you mentioned something else that reminded me, an element I really like is, and this is something else that speaks to the economy of this film, which just makes it stronger and more authentic, is the way through that dialogue. There are little bits of dialogue, but just the insinuations where we understand that, of course, everybody on this street and probably everybody within about a three block radius knows what's happening with Jeremy.

25:00Adam Kempenaar:They have to. Right. Because he at a certain point for sure. He's being that disruptive. And, you know, it's the talk of a neighborhood like this. But do we ever see the neighbors? Do we ever get shots of the neighbors looking over or whispering or any scenes of them actually gossiping? No, we don't. We don't need to. We just, we get enough. We get enough little bits of dialogue that we understand what's happening and we understand how powerful it can still be without needing those types of scenes. How much of an impact that can still have that we can have the mom saying, no, you can't have a friend over because of this, that it is something that you need to be aware of, even though right now you're blissfully ignorant.

25:49Adam Kempenaar:You mentioned the incisiveness of the camera and I think the stillness. And I also want to say with the POV by not restricting it or trying to restrict it too much to her actual point of view. That makes the moments when we do see through Sasha's eyes more powerful. But I think it's the stillness of the camera. And this is where it's very different from Malik, especially something like the Tree of Life, where the camera is just flying all over the place. Right. The camera does not move here, maybe at all. And so what you come to realize, it zooms, it tilts, it pans. Yeah, she uses zooms a fair amount, effectively.

26:24Adam Kempenaar:But it's very stationary. And so what you come to realize is that the point of view that matters most is really not young Sasha's. Here's the lens of memory, right? It's older Sasha. It's her memory reliving and re-envisioning the past. And that, I think, is shown. This is not spoilers at all, but it's in that scene I was referring to as the the fissure scene, right? The moments that precipitate it. Josh, this scene for me is is is magical because and that really is what it is. And in terms of the construct of the film or the context of the film, it is it is effectively magical realism. it it is a moment too that i re-watched it josh and it feels like this is the one moment that feels actually like it almost could have been taken out of the tree of life because the sequence begins with a magic hour shot of the sun it's rays coming through the trees but what it is it's when they're all playing outside all the kids are playing outside and including sasha the little boys and the little girl are all on the trampoline and Jeremy is just in his world like he usually is being quiet like he is.

27:35Adam Kempenaar:He barely has any lines of dialogue in this film. The actor's name is Edick Beddoes and he's very good. I mean, what he does with very little dialogue here is something.

27:49Josh Larsen:And Adam, like just a quick aside, as far as I can tell, this is his first role. And, and I think what's key about this character is that he keeps a distance as the character, which is necessary, but he brings enough to the screen to still have a presence, you know? Yes. And as you, you're just describing it, it doesn't mean not just when he's disruptive, even when he's just off to the side, Bedos is doing something that has real presence to it. So he fully exists in, in that moment, even if he's a bit apart, it's, it's, I think it's a really incredible performance.

28:23Adam Kempenaar:And I think you could even go so far as to say, even though he is very rarely in the film, very rarely, if ever, do we actually see him being towards other people aggressively or violently disruptive. I would also still say he's almost never very likable in the film. He's not he's not an affable person. And yet there is something about the way Bedos plays him that when we do hear someone in the film later describe him, I believe, as soulful. You see that from the first moment you look at him in this film. You believe that is there, which is what makes part of this story so, so tragic. And so we're watching them.

29:03Adam Kempenaar:He's listening to music with headphones on. The kids are bouncing. And this shot in a lot of ways then is the whole movie. because it's this point of view shot of the mind's eye of Sasha, older Sasha, looking back as the kids are playing, including on herself. And she's looking at the house through the glass and what's happening inside the living room. Mom's on the phone having a conversation. We don't know with who yet having a conversation about Jeremy, a tough conversation about what we're going to do with him and how she doesn't know what to do. and she doesn't want to make a very tough decision.

29:42Adam Kempenaar:What's dad doing? Dad's doing what dad always does. Dad's filming. So we've got the mirror, the reflection of the camera pointed back at the camera. And then something happens there too, Josh, which is we do get, speaking of soulful, we do get a moment where just as the sequence is ending, Bedos turns and looks right at us and looks at the camera. And just for a moment, it holds on him. And then just for a moment, he starts to give a little smile. And Ranvari has the right instinct to not stay on that smile and let that moment become more saccharine than it could be. She just lets the smile just start, right?

30:30Adam Kempenaar:And then cut away because the scene that's actually playing out is something that's way more tense and difficult. And it's going to be the thing that launches the entire second half of this film. But what the camera does here, Josh, is that it's stationary the entire time. And so it tilts a little bit, as I said. It pans. It'll even wiggle. But what it starts doing is it's just this slow zoom forward toward the glass on the parents. And I think the way I see that, the way it works so effectively for me in the moment is that I do see it as grown-up Sasha, Sophie, Ranvari. It is her mind's eye looking back on this scene.

31:13Adam Kempenaar:And by being stuck like that, the camera being fixed, it feels to me like the character, the director's eye being fixed, being stuck. You can only go so far back. You can only capture so much. And when it starts to zoom, it's almost like when you squint to try to look at something and try to get a better view, to try to get a clearer picture. Yes, you can move in a little bit. You can try to see things a little more clearly, but you're just never fully going to get there. The past will always elude us. And certainly seeking any easy answers from the past is something that's always going to elude us.

31:57Josh Larsen:This really is a good case study for the possibilities of the zoom because, you know, we're, we're probably making it sound like she's employing it all the time in this movie. And I think it's actually just very effective and noticeable, but not in a bad way when she does employ it. And I think Adam, in the moment you're describing and in another one here, I'll get to, it makes me realize that the zoom is very effective to convey searching, right? You're, you're, it's like, you're trying, you're trying to get closer to what's happening. And that moment I mentioned where he's throwing the basketball against the wall of the house and his mother comes out and says to get in the car where all the kids were all going somewhere, get in the car.

32:39Josh Larsen:And he just ignores her. This is where she employs another one of those zooms, almost imperceptible. Like you, you just, you suddenly, you notice we're seeing, we're a little closer to Jeremy, a little closer. And here, of course, it's searching. It's asking the question, why isn't he responding? What's he going to do next? So there's a curiosity, but also attention to it as well. Right. It's like the moments getting more, the more he ignores her, the more she calls, we are feeling that time. Who's going to give. And so who's going to give. And so the zoom is effective there. I also like the opposite though.

33:12Josh Larsen:And there's only one instance where she does this that I can recall. Maybe there are more, but the kids and the mom go to the beach. and I like how she starts in close on this rocky beach from the water. And we see, you know, the, maybe the younger brothers come first, I think, and they're running towards the water. And as the family approaches and they come from between two larger rocks, as the family approaches, she's zooming back and out. And there suddenly we have it. I found it to be like maybe one of the few moments in the film where I took a breath because the zoom is now opening. It is breathing.

33:51Josh Larsen:The screen is breathing and it's creating a welcoming atmosphere as the family spills out onto the beach. So yeah, just effective use of zoom here, which I don't know. I don't know how much we call attention to that, except for maybe I always think of it as like a seventies technique, you know, as it's being probably employed in the seventies.

34:08Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Without a doubt. And, and maybe only certain filmmakers in particular, it's not commonly used. Most filmmakers are going to use tracks. They're going to set up a dolly or they're going to use a steadicam. They're not going to use

34:20Josh Larsen:or just cut to where to where they want to be.

34:23Adam Kempenaar:Absolutely right. But but Rampari really, really uses it well here. I think there's also I wonder if you felt the same way. I think there's a scene of the year candidate potentially in this film. Oh, there's when I say there's a couple. Yeah. I mean, what, what comes to mind for you when, when I say that, is there one or two, when you say there's a couple, what stands out?

34:43Josh Larsen:The one that comes to mind is another moment of the dad capturing the family in looseness. And this is back in the kitchen.

34:53Adam Kempenaar:Yes.

34:54Josh Larsen:And yeah, the sifting of the baking powder,

34:58Adam Kempenaar:sifting of the bake. Yeah. And going into the dark room, that entire sequence, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the dark room is key.

35:05Josh Larsen:Like, you know, as we both touched on the father with this recording habit, what does he say at one point? And this isn't pushed to too heavily, you know, I almost don't want to say it because it makes the movie sound way more thematic than it is. But he just calmly says something about, you know, the developing film is it's kind of like going back in time. And he just casually mentioned, you know, the exact line.

35:28Adam Kempenaar:It's so good. And he does. He says it so casually, it is almost hard to catch. But he says it's in the fixer, you know, whatever the chemicals you use in the dark room. I haven't been in a dark room since seventh grade. So bear with me. But the picture is developing. It's coming to life. And think about the metaphor of that here, especially in this movie, based on everything we're saying about the construct of this film and this image of this family that was just taken minutes before. Now they're in the dark room bringing time back. And he says, time is going backwards. It's a time warp. He says, yeah, it is.

36:06Adam Kempenaar:This whole movie is a time warp. And of course that image itself is a time warp. Yeah.

36:11Josh Larsen:And it's played way more lightly than, than, you know, we're describing it. It works really beautifully. We should probably say the father played by Adam Tompa and the mother, Aringo Reti, both very good. And you mentioned how, you know, the tools, when we're talking about developing here, photography, the tools to try to recapture these memories. Of course, we get more of that in the second half of the film, which I think I probably, maybe we do want to leave as a surprise for viewers. Sure. Except to say it becomes more explicit about the tools that the older Sasha employs to recapture some of these memories as a filmmaker.

36:49Josh Larsen:And there's really sort of a formal break in this movie That's very bold where past and present.

36:57Adam Kempenaar:Yes. That's that I was referring to. Yeah.

37:00Josh Larsen:Yeah. There's a break, but then, then it comes, both come back together. Right. Magically in ways I do want to leave as a surprise, but are absolutely where I was. I was already in as on this as a golden brick, but at that point I was like, oh yeah, this fits so well. It's also connected to, you know, you mentioned the top after sun, which I've seen elsewhere. also charlotte wells brilliant brilliant film of just a couple years ago now and i think it's a fair comparison i do want to say to me there's a crucial distinction in how they handle this past and present blending and maybe helps me explain why after sun at least at this point after just one viewing of blue heron did have such a stronger impression on me is simply because that movie it sort of brings past and present together, like drops it like a hammer on you when that happens in that movie.

37:55Josh Larsen:And here we see, it's like this gentle convergence and, you know, for different viewers, one might be more effective than another, but I think it's a key distinction. I just don't want this to be, you know, thought of as like just another after sun. There are some similarities. It's very distinct in a lot of ways, but I still think at the same time, if you were incredibly moved by after sun, then you need to see Blue Heron as soon as you can.

38:18Adam Kempenaar:I would echo that. And I just briefly want to go back to the dark room and the pictures that they're developing there, even in this house with so much struggle and so much tumult and the weight hanging over it and all hanging over every moment, it seems of her childhood almost. And the weight that the parents have to carry that those performers do portray so well. Nevertheless, there are moments like that. And I'll go back to the tree of life for a second. There are such moments of grace and a moment of grace that we get is that that falling powder. Right. And even even with all of that, Jeremy can give us moments with his siblings and moments with his with his parents looking on or the dad looking on in this case.

39:05Adam Kempenaar:That's that's beautiful and touching and tender. And, and, and of course then, I mean, he's capturing everything, but maybe that's why he's capturing everything is because, because if he doesn't, he's, he's going to miss moments like that, which do occur, but they're rare.

39:19Josh Larsen:I think you're absolutely right. I think it's his recognition that all we will remember if we don't have these is maybe the difficulty. And of course, this is what makes it tragic as well is that this is not just a kid who's creating utter distress and violence in the home where some decisions might be easier than just out of protection for other kids. This is a family that still is able to have these moments together, and they're desperately trying to figure out how to make that their entire experience instead of these little intermittent, unexpected moments of grace you described that they have to capture with a camera.

40:03Adam Kempenaar:I do want to say, going back to your point about After Sun, and I'll close here, and I think we can get into this a little bit or I can express this without needing to divulge any spoilers. I don't think we have to for this review at this point. I do wish that perhaps like After Sun, it traversed that ambiguity of the liminal space maybe a little more deeply or it blurred the lines in a way. I like that it's distinct, but I think maybe what I'm getting at, Josh, is that in the end, for me, for the weight of this film to really hit as powerfully as something like Aftersun did, the mission of it felt a little bit too clear.

40:52Adam Kempenaar:And what I mean by that is both the mission as laid out by the voiceover at the beginning and then by the voice we get at the very end and what it's expressing. And that's the actress who's playing Ramvari. what she says in both the beginning and the end. For the lack of answers that the movie exposes, and it does. This movie, as we've said multiple times, I don't think this movie tries to suggest that there is any easy reckoning with any type of situation like this or that childhood itself is something we can just dwell on in our past and make sense of, anything like that. For me, in those final images and in the bookending, I suppose I felt like there was still a little bit too much closure.

41:44Adam Kempenaar:And the imagery itself, the mechanism for the closure, here's where I'm being vague, the mechanism for the closure maybe felt just a little bit too facile, for lack of a better word. If you know what I mean, some of the closing images were, for me, didn't, we're at odds a little bit with the, the challenging nature of so much of the rest of the film.

42:08Josh Larsen:Let me just ask, and I can be vague here. If the point of contention for you was a zoom, was it actually the use of a zoom and how that, um, because I actually found that it's not the last shot, but it might be the third to last or fourth to last.

42:26Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, Well, I'm thinking about more who populates the shot, though, than I am the shot choice itself.

42:34Josh Larsen:Yeah. Okay. Okay. That worked for me, actually. Okay. I thought, yeah, I thought. But it does bring, you're right, it does bring a certain closure, even if it doesn't bring answers. I can see the distinction you're making.

42:48Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Yes. Okay. Blue Heron is out now, like we said, still rolling out, I believe, to more theaters this spring. So you might get a chance to see it at a theater near you. If you do get a chance to see it or if you've already seen it and you would like to weigh in, we would love to hear your thoughts about the film. You can email us feedback at filmspotting.net. For Film Spotting, I'm Adam Kempinar.

43:11Josh Larsen:And I'm Josh Larson.

43:13Adam Kempenaar:Thanks for listening.

43:14Josh Larsen:This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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45:24Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports, and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

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