Catherine O'Hara: Our Top 5 Characters (#1054)

19:51Catherine O'Hara:Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat.

20:25Catherine O'Hara:How is she? She is not with us. Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry. Amanda Seyfried. Life is so short. If you feel something like that, you have that fire in you for this experience. It's not for a guy. It's for the experience of being in love. And like, it's bigger than a guy. Elizabeth Olsen. I love swimming naked so much. And I know you love taking pictures of yourself naked. I love to be naked. I just want to be in my brown underwear all the time. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me?

21:00Catherine O'Hara:Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I'm always like, hi. I try to butch it up for kids, you know, so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Lisa Trager. And I'm Cara Clank. We're comedians and your favorite overly invested SVU watchers. On That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, we recap iconic episodes, then talk to the stars who lived them. Like the legendary Matthew Lillard, who will never forget his time on SVU.

21:39Catherine O'Hara:I do remember the mustache. I will get a meme of that mustache like every like six days. I'll be like, what was this? Each week we cover the crimes, analyze the plot holes, and insult the outfits. Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her the news, but is wearing a beret. Not the time for a silly hat, Benson. What are you doing? New episodes drop every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to That's Messed Up on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dun-dun!

22:19Catherine O'Hara:Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week on Bookmarked, we're basically hosting the ultimate girls' night. Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner, Judy Greer, Rita Wilson, and Gauri Rice, and author Laura Dave. These are the women behind season two of the Apple TV series, The Last Thing He Told Me. We're talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life. The most important metric for me is do I want to share this book with somebody? That's what creates community and that's the main thesis of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together.

22:56Catherine O'Hara:Listen to The Bookmarked by Risa's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

23:05Josh Larsen:Yeah, this really should have been my outlier pick to a degree. And it was on my rough draft. It was on my, like, heard the news and started thinking about this. I think it is definitely more layered as you discussed. It's, for me, would have been a surefire thing if we had done O 'Hara scenes. Because she kicks off the Dayo Banana Boat musical sequence. Yes. And that is just a tour de force of comedy, just going for, you know, this experience of being musically possessed, but also snapping in and out of it. It's, you know, it's like Delia doesn't just suddenly get possessed and start singing.

23:45Josh Larsen:It's like it happens. And then she comes out and recognizes, asks what's happening to me and then goes back in. And the deafness O 'Hara has in that sequence. Yeah. I think is among her best scenes for sure. It's interesting what you say. I think we're going to come across this repeatedly in that there are roles she's been given, which basically have one clear comic signifier to them. And I think you could say this to Delia too. And then the magic is what O 'Hara weaves and brings into making this character even more than that, as you say, without necessarily the most screen time among the ensemble.

24:29Josh Larsen:She still manages to pull it off.

24:31Adam Kempenaar:Yeah.

24:32Josh Larsen:My other outlier, I actually have ranked quite a bit higher. I could do that or I could just go to number four. Oh yeah. Okay. I like that. No, let's, let's go with your other outlier. Why not? Okay. Let's hit our outliers first. And I put Moira Rose from Schitt's Creek at number two. I know, I know breaking some rules here. This is a television performance. We're going to listeners will expose themselves. Who are the, the comrade Josh's or Adam's right in, in a fury. I could, I had to do it. I just had to do it because this is especially the sentimentality of doing this list now after her passing and the joy to know that near the end of her career, she was given an opportunity like this, a multi-season opportunity to delve into all her improvisational comic gifts, create a character over a long series of time.

25:33Josh Larsen:This is an ensemble show too, Adam, but in a way, this is her lead role. This is the one that maybe she didn't get in film throughout her career. And yeah, I just thought it had to be recognized here. I think my list would have been paltry without it. This is on Netflix if people haven't caught up with Schitt's Creek. So right now we're about halfway through our rewatch. We watched it when it first aired and loved it. Moira Rose is basically the disgraced former actress who's trying to rebuild her life with her spoiled family after they are forced to move to a small town having, I'm not going to get too into the plot.

26:14Josh Larsen:Basically, they've lost all their wealth. Her husband here, a name that's going to come up a lot, Eugene Levy. So we get to have them working off of each other. And man, Adam, your description at the top of her creating this own moral universe or - I'm thinking of her. I definitely am as one of those. It's a multiverse depending on what wig Moira decides to wear that day. Good point. And I think half of Eugene Levy's wide-eyed reaction shots, which is probably like 85 % of his performance on the show, come from one of Moira's absurd proclamations. And this is in terms of both content, what she says, and how she says it.

26:59Josh Larsen:I think O 'Hara has invented her own accent for this part. It is, it is a posh draw. If that's a thing, it it's, it's like Catherine Hepburn, but tipsy and slurring her speech. Maybe. I mean, to give you a sense of this, there is a super cut on YouTube of her just pronouncing baby as baby. It's throughout the series. Yes. I've seen that. I think the accent work here is, you know, is just a tour de force on its own.

27:30Catherine O'Hara:There's no idea if the taller Bebe can take on its mother or its mother's mother. Where is Bebe's chamber? You're right. We should go. Jocelyn has that Bebe thing. Time change.

27:42Josh Larsen:You said you couldn't make it because of the Bebe. I'm curious about this too, rewatching it. On the first watch, I thought, and this speaks to your point too, Adam, Moira might be the one in this family. so there's the two adult children and then her husband who grows the least like over four or five seasons there might be they all kind of some growth become become humbled or recognize value in others in my first watch i felt like moira was let's say the most steadfast but i don't know maybe you know especially now as we're as we're picking up on these nuances she brings to characters. I'll be eager to watch these last two seasons or so and see if I missed something and she might have snuck something in there on us to Moira as well.

28:30Josh Larsen:I wouldn't be surprised, but at the same time, wouldn't be surprised if she had that conviction to Moira's own reality.

28:39Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Steadfast is such a charitable way of putting it. I love it. I didn't include it in part because I absolutely knew you would. I figured I could leave it off because of the TV technicality. And also not only have I not watched Schitt's Creek twice or am not on my second viewing, I haven't finished it once. I I've seen certainly the bulk of the episodes. I know my wife has seen the entire series, but I still have some homework to do Josh. So I don't feel like I have any, any claim to Moira Rose like you do.

29:12Josh Larsen:You've got a lot of good stuff waiting for you. Had you gotten to the point where she was filming her schlocky horror movie, The Crows Have Eyes 3, The Croning? Did you get to that yet?

29:23Adam Kempenaar:I did not get to that.

29:24Josh Larsen:Okay. You got good stuff ahead. I'll just say that.

29:26Adam Kempenaar:Well, actually a perfect transition because every actor or almost every actor, you may know them for a breakout role, but you go look at their IMDB and they probably have some kind of schlocky horror, schlocky thriller, right? first as their first feature, maybe after their TV work or thrown into their TV work there near the end before they really transition to the big time, right? Catherine O 'Hara is no different. Double Negative is what the movie's called, a 1980 thriller that she is in. But I'm going with my outlier and I'm just going to keep going in order here. I've got it at number four.

30:10Adam Kempenaar:already mentioned by the listener that you quoted, Josh, Gale from After Hours. And not only is it a great performance, I truly believe, but deserves recognition, I think, on this list because after Double Negative, well, let me just set that aside. It really was her first notable screen appearance, certainly a major studio film, working with a major director, obviously, in Martin Scorsese. It's the first time she was really widely recognized as a comedic performer on screen. The first time, you know, critics were were taking note of her as well. And, you know, you you talked about the magic of O 'Hara, the magic of this performance as Gail lies for me.

30:57Adam Kempenaar:and what I was saying before about her performances, Delia, as well. It lies in how she grounds this character. Because in this movie that's completely ungrounded, right, this Mr. Softy ice cream truck driver, that's what she does for a living. And she wants to tell you that. She is a Mr. Softy ice cream truck driver. She is the embodiment of chaos. She absolutely takes to another level, helps escalate the already highly escalated absurdity of this night for Griffin Dunn's Paul character. And how does O 'Hara play her? I wasn't able to rewatch the entire movie, Josh, but I don't know if Gail's heart rate gets above like 105.

31:43Adam Kempenaar:It's just pretty steady and calm the entire time. She does not play the comedy. She doesn't play the chaos at all. She, she just plays Gail. And in just one scene, which I think is probably universally the most famous scene of hers in the movie, it's the scene where she and Paul meet out, out on the street in an alley. He gets hurt. She, she brings him up to her apartment, ostensibly to help bandage up his, his wounded arm like she's going to take care of him. It's just under five minutes. And Josh, I'm probably even missing a few different layers here, but she gives us Gail as genuinely sympathetic.

32:28Adam Kempenaar:Look at your arm. It's bleeding. I'll get you a bandage. Right into sweetly self-absorbed. I have my own Mr. Softy truck, even though he didn't ask. He has no interest in what she does for a living. Right into accommodating, do you need a pencil? As he tries to write down a phone number. Then right into playing the jester, saying random numbers out loud to discombobulate him so he can't remember the numbers that he's supposed to dial.

32:58Josh Larsen:Five, eight, one, nine, six, one, two.

33:12Adam Kempenaar:that was funny that was funny this poor guy just needs a break and all she wants to do is torment him and confuse him so he can't make this phone call the best part of the scene though josh is that devilish grin she has that that joyful devilish face she makes when he calls the operator again, take two. And she makes a face like almost like your mom makes when you're a little kid and she's about to tickle you again. Oh, here it comes. You're going to do it again.

33:46Catherine O'Hara:Five, eight, six, two, nine, three, eight, zero.

33:55Adam Kempenaar:sure enough more numbers out loud and he loses them again then she lets out this laugh almost like she's the joker but you know a more benevolent joker and then josh she goes back to being caring again except in this this is what you were saying about where the wild things are this is we can trace it back to this moment here. She's caring, except there is just a little bit of menace in her voice. The danger is there. Like if he wasn't so desperate, surely Paul would recognize that something is off with this woman. And I just think if you saw SCTV and then you, you went to the movies, the new Martin Scorsese movie, and you saw Catherine O 'Hara on screen, none of this maybe would have surprised you about her, right?

34:46Adam Kempenaar:You would have said, oh, of course I expect this transition to, to movies. But if you never saw SCTV and you just went out to the movies and saw this woman playing Gail, I, I think my first reaction would have been something like, how have I missed her? Because surely this comedic actress has been in like 20 films already. She's just too polished and too funny. Yeah.

35:10Josh Larsen:You don't know what's coming next with Gail. I think Like this, this character is also an example of what, I think I mentioned this when we shared the news on that episode after just hearing about her passing, how O 'Hara comes into a movie and can often, no matter what movie you've been watching and whoever she's playing, you suddenly kind of wish the movie became that character's movie and you could follow them. Now that might be a dangerous proposition with Gale because it could go potentially to some very dark places, but it could go to some fun places too. It could go, it could be some ice cream involved.

35:45Josh Larsen:I mean, really, who knows? It would have been a wild, a wild ride when it comes to Gale. All right. So I think here's where we'll have some splitting of hairs of ranking, but shared, shared characters because Sheila Albertson in Waiting for Guffman wants. her time in the spotlight and deserves her time in the spotlight. She's not paired. O 'Hara's not paired here with Eugene Levy, even though this is a Christopher Guest mockumentary. This time, it is Fred Willard, Ron and Sheila Albertson, the overly confident travel agent couple who have some performance experience and they are very eager to be part of the community theater production at the heart of this film.

36:32Josh Larsen:Their audition scene.

36:34Catherine O'Hara:Am I late? You! Surprised? How did you find me?

36:39Adam Kempenaar:I have my ways. Would you like to come in for coffee?

36:43Catherine O'Hara:You don't need to answer. There's no need to speak.

36:49Josh Larsen:It's so loud. They're singing. It's just so loud. Yeah. She has no concern for really hitting a note. And I think if I'm noticing that, Adam, it must be really bad.

37:04Adam Kempenaar:Right. We're all Bob Balaban in that scene, right? Just like reaching for the glass of water, not sure what to do.

37:11Josh Larsen:Whereas guest Corky St. Clair is smitten, just smitten, right? With the passion, with the passion they're showing. How about the double date at the Chinese restaurant where she drunkenly brings up her husband's penis reduction surgery? Right. And you think, okay, low hanging fruit, right? Pun intended You just give You give that as the script If that was even in the script But oh my gosh the comic chaos She again Like Gail induces with it

37:47Catherine O'Hara:Girl talk What's it like to be with a circumcised man? I'd ask you more about that But Ron said The whole Jew thing And then

38:01Josh Larsen:And acting like she isn't doing anything unusual. That everyone else at the table, Adam, is being weird by how they're responding to her bringing it up. There you go. In her own reality, right? Her own reality. And you know what this made me realize? I wonder if she is an influence, if O 'Hara is an influence at all on Tim Robinson, who, you know, with, I think you should leave. I think that was the name of his, the cringe comedy, um, you know, that he specializes in a friendship. That was the Paul Rudd, I think a movie from last year, just a guy who walks into a scene is as weird as possible and doesn't understand why people are reacting that way.

38:48Josh Larsen:There's a, there's a variation of that happening here in this sequence. And I think in a lot of the scenes with O 'Hara characters, yeah, it was a delight to just watch some of these waiting for Guffman sequences. is again, I haven't watched it in years and years. I think the key to this movie is, is really that this production they're trying to put on, isn't that terrible? I mean, it's bad. Don't get me wrong. It's bad, but it's, it never pushes the movie never pushes beyond the comic familiar ribbing, you know, into something that's, that's just kind of ripping them apart for their idiocy. It never goes that far.

39:21Josh Larsen:And I think that O 'Hara, even in a scene like the, that restaurant manages is a shred of idiosyncratic dignity to, to Sheila. That is, is crucial. That's the only way that's the only way she can, she can act like she's being the completely normal one.

39:41Josh Larsen:Adam, you hear scream seven and you might think, come on, how many of these do we really need? Well, if I look at my Scream ranked list, I actually have the two most recent Scream films, 2022 and 2023, kind of high up there. I have them as number three and number four of the Scream films. So all that to say might be worth checking out Scream 7 if you are interested in the franchise, if you're interested in horror in general. and you know, we all know horror you've got to see in a theater. You've got to see this with a crowd. You want to scream alongside others. So if you want to do that, have that experience with Scream 7, you could have it for free with Regal Unlimited.

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41:20Adam Kempenaar:I have Sheila at number three on my list. And I talked about the range that you see just within that one after-hours scene, what's fun about the guest performances that we're going to talk about, we're talking about just three, but you think about the other films as well, is how vastly different these characters are. And maybe that sounds obvious, but there's no sort of typecasting with her. Fred Willard, as brilliant as he is, is always kind of Fred Willard, right? But if you think about the three characters we're going to mention with Catherine O 'Hara, she's not remotely the same person. She's not remotely playing the same character.

41:58Adam Kempenaar:That's probably true across the seven or eight or however many it is different characters that we're going to mention over the course of this list. And I think that just speaks to how talented she is. Now, in every case here that I'm going to mention, and I think maybe so far other than where the wild things are, she is coupled with a man and there is never an impulse it seems for us as viewers watching her there never seems to be an impulse to be anything but supportive and i mean supportive in the way ensemble and improvisational comedy has to be that that anyone of any gender has to be within that type of environment there's just a complete absence of ego there's there's an understanding And in this case, you know, it's that Fred Willard is Fred Willard and both his persona and this character are predicated on being blowhards who are going to ramble on a bit.

42:58Adam Kempenaar:They're going to make every conversation and every moment about themselves and he'll be hilarious. and she's going to set him up or like in, in the, uh, the scene that I, I want to single out, which is the one where they're, they're talking about their dreams of going to Hollywood, not Broadway going to Hollywood. And, and he does his awful actor impressions. She just like us has no idea who he's actually impersonating. Right. But what does she do? Like, what does her character to do. And he even mentions it. She laughs. She laughs right along. You know, she supports him. Right. And and giggles with them like, oh, you're doing such a good job, even though, again, she has absolutely no clue what he's doing.

43:43Adam Kempenaar:But what ends up happening? What is O 'Hara end up happening, especially since we know the dynamic and we know how these these scenes are shot for the most part in these Christopher Guest movies? What ends up happening? She just waits for exactly her moment and she delivers. And I think not just here, Josh, in this scene, but probably in every scene in this movie and most scenes in all of the guest movies that she's in, she waits for her moment and she delivers what is usually the most memorable part of the scene.

44:13Catherine O'Hara:You know, I want to try that less is more kind of acting where you just, when you're talking to someone, you close your eyes and then you look at them when you're not talking to the person. I mean, you open your eyes when you're looking away, but then when you talk to the person, you go like that And you open your eyes and then you look back at the person.

44:28Adam Kempenaar:That's the funniest part of that scene, without a doubt. And she just waits her turn patiently for that moment to happen. And Fred's character here is an idiot. And you laugh at him. And that's great. He understands that. Guest understands that. I think O 'Hara understands that about Fred. But you just really can't laugh. You can't laugh at Sheila. Or I think most of, if not all of O 'Hara's characters. Because not only do they have the human part that we've talked about, they're just, and this is true certainly of Sheila, I think, they're just so damn earnest. They're so earnest. You just, you like them and you can't laugh at them.

45:11Adam Kempenaar:And that's what I felt anyway, watching Sheila in this scene, which still just cracks me up every time I watch it and think about her less is more approach to acting.

45:21Josh Larsen:there's a through line now that we're talking about it of that supportive element to yeah so much of what she does and in terms of being there and allowing her co-star to do what they need to do and giving them something tied to that i think that's going to be a crucial part to what is likely our shared number one. So I'll save that. And maybe I'll move to my number three, because this element of a co-star and supporting them and still making room for her own comedy is not only crucial to her character. I think it's crucial. This is the one I rewatched for this list. I think it's crucial to best in show overall.

46:06Josh Larsen:I liked this. I've always liked this movie, but I liked it so much more this time. I think because I realized that there were certain couples who we meet who are going to this dog show. Some are just terrible for each other and terrible to each other. Right. And those are funny, but the ones that stick with us are those who we get to know that it's more about how they're there for each other. And I think kooky, cookie, cookie, she's kooky. She's kooky. Yeah. Cookie and her husband played by Eugene Levy in this case. Of course. Are so wonderfully supportive of each other in some very awkward situations.

46:51Josh Larsen:Most of them due to the fact that we learn along the way, as her husband does on this trip to the dog show, that Cookie had a lively romantic life before they married. And this is an example, Adam, I think of like the one note I was talking about. Like I was going to go there if you didn't. Yes. Right. It's kind of one joke with cookie.

47:12Adam Kempenaar:Yeah.

47:12Josh Larsen:One joke. Cookie has this promiscuous past. Okay. Yep. Yep. And it could have been a gag that got tired. Yeah. But I have to think, you know, Levy, I think as a co-writer here with guests, I have to think they like trusted her to just say, this is all you need. and we know what you'll do with it. Because the improvisational possibilities that knowing you're getting served a fastball in every one of your scenes and you can choose to hit it to right field, to left, down side, like you just know what's coming. And here's what she does. Every guy who comes up and recognizes her and shares their memory with her, each guy is different because of how she responds.

47:56Josh Larsen:And each situation is different because of how she plays it. And you get a sense of their particular relationship, which is unique every time. Doesn't she look fantastic? Boy, I'll say. Thank you. You got that right. You know what? I don't know. 18, 19 years? Louisville. The mint julep you were working as a waitress there. Wow.

48:22Catherine O'Hara:Malcolm. Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm. Oh, yeah.

48:25Josh Larsen:You know, I banged a lot of waitresses in my day. You, you, you were the best. You don't forget the best.

48:32Catherine O'Hara:Oh, Jerry, Jerry. Oh, Jerry.

48:34Josh Larsen:I think part of, you know, Jerry is her husband. And then this goes back to the supporting thing. Part of the cookie persona is the way during each one of these encounters, she makes room for Jerry's feelings of discomfort. Now, yeah, she doesn't apologize. Let's be clear. Like there's nothing for her to apologize for this, you know, this was before she met Jerry, but you know, she's, she doesn't just turn all her attention to these men. There's, and this too, she gives variations to depending on Jerry's reaction, how, how like mortified he is. She'll alter her response. It's just that she acknowledges his discomfort.

49:17Josh Larsen:So this is some of the nuance, some of the layers she brings to it. Can we just also say, I don't know what O 'Hara did with her leg, but after Cookie sprains her knee just before the climactic final show competition, and she's wobbling in a circle around that backstage. I don't know how she did that physically, but it is disturbing and it is hilarious. And I don't know how much physical comedy we get from O 'Hara, but she definitely throws some out there in this movie and it works quite well.

49:53Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, I've got Cookie Fleck from Best in Show as my number two. And she might be the best character in the movie, even though I am going to say, and she's part of this, obviously, part of the scene and part of what makes this joke work. The single best joke in the movie, and it might be the single, I'm going to say, I'm going to go bold here, Josh. The single best joke maybe in all of the Christopher Guest universe is one that belongs to Eugene Levy in the scene. Well, Levy and Christopher Guest. And it's when they're talking about how they met on the dance floor and how he's protesting. No, I can't dance.

50:34Adam Kempenaar:I can't dance. I've got two left feet. And she says, I thought he was kidding. and there's a pause. So I rewatched this too, Josh, and I hadn't seen Best in Show in I don't know how long, at least 10 years, right? So I didn't remember exactly what was going to happen here. And I am telling you truthfully in this moment, it's like Christopher Guest knew. I think he did know, right? He was smart enough to know that every audience member understood that we were watching a Christopher Guest movie and that anything could happen here. And when he says, you know, I have two left feet. And when the camera pauses that the reality could be that he actually has two left feet and the pause allows for that.

51:21Adam Kempenaar:And I actually said out loud on my couch, even though I've seen this movie before, I said out loud, don't do it. Like, like, no, you're not actually, you're not going to do it. And then he's in right is right after I finished the word it, but I wasn't in the slope. And down. And Josh, that alone, that alone, that sort of interaction with the audience and the notion that he actually has two left feet, the slow pan, that could be enough. That's enough to make it brilliant. But of course, they take it to another level. They had a nickname for me. They called me Loopy. Because I walked in circles.

52:03Adam Kempenaar:I mean, I don't know.

52:05Josh Larsen:I don't know if it could be topped. Can I... point out the callback to this that i i didn't catch debbie caught this when we were watching it this is why he wins yeah because when he's walking the dog he he has to go in circles

52:21Adam Kempenaar:of course yes yes jerry was born for this i know literally i know i know yeah he's he's very limited but it actually it actually pays off in this case walking in circles is a skill i know So Cookie, you know, she just she takes no offense, of course, at the vulgarity of all these men who approach them right in front of her husband. No, we think we think she might be like, oh, you know, that's that's in the past. You know, don't say that. We think she might have more respect for her husband's feelings. But no, that's the genius. Yeah, exactly. She tries to thread the needle. and and in uh in that scene you know in this in this one of the very memorable scenes right the the character says i've banged a lot of cocktail waitresses in my day but you never forget the best and again she doesn't there's no offense in that because in fact she takes pride she says you never forget the best right like she knows she's the best in that moment so that is the joke.

53:26Adam Kempenaar:The joke for her is that recurring gag of men, every man showing up and then her sort of unrepentant, you know, shameless horniness or the feminism of cookie fleck because, you know, she's she's not going to let society or or her marriage vows. I'm going to say, you know, restrict her choices, Josh, because or her fond recollections, but her choices, because these aren't just choices in the past. The movie suggests, right? Like, let's not forget that when they go to Larry Miller's house, they stop off at Larry Miller's house. There is that scene where they just disappear. They just disappear into the house.

54:01Adam Kempenaar:And I don't think he was like showing her his bowling trophies, you know, like I think we know what they were getting up to in that scene. But, but you mentioned this and I do think this is what makes the character work so well. And it is about, it's about cutting that sort of edge of the one note. It's about adding in the real human element that we've talked about so much. Do you ever feel like, you know, you talked about the characters who support each other. Do you ever feel like despite this, despite in any real marriage, any, any man really, you know, obviously being even more disturbed by this and, you know, not allowing it.

54:41Adam Kempenaar:Do you ever feel like cookie is using Jerry for something? Do you ever feel like she's, she's using him for his money or just some kind of stability. No, it, it seems like she genuinely loves her husband and she's, she's taking no pleasure in, in cucking him in this way. She just has a voracious sexual appetite. And, and I think, I think it's the end scene for me, Josh, because here again, you think how many different variations on this joke, but also her response to it. Can she give us and have them still be as fresh and, and as brilliant as, as the last one. And they're in the, they're in the recording studio, they're singing the terrier song.

55:28Adam Kempenaar:And by now you think maybe, you know, he's been triumphant. He won, right. He won for them. Maybe, maybe this is behind them now, you know, maybe, maybe he'll have some more respect and maybe some, some of these men won't, you know, this is a part of the film, but you're just thinking maybe, you know, he's got some status and he can move on with his life and this won't haunt him anymore. And what happens? They're in the recording studio. And of course the engineer recognizes her. Cookie. Yeah.

55:59Josh Larsen:Cookie Googleman. Yeah. Does this ring a bell? I'm not wearing underwear. Bulge.

56:07Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, that's me.

56:10Catherine O'Hara:Bulge. Yeah. Get out of town.

56:12Adam Kempenaar:It's me. And this moment, Josh, O 'Hara's moment, that focused look that she gives the guy and that little cough and the lowering of the voice. But she says, he says, you look good, girl, whatever. And she goes, you too.

56:28Josh Larsen:You look fantastic. You too.

56:32Catherine O'Hara:You've grown.

56:33Josh Larsen:I'm growing right now, girl. Just looking at you.

56:37Adam Kempenaar:Poor Jerry, right? I think Levy starts banging his head against the microphone. That's my favorite. I think that is my favorite cookie fleck line delivery in the entire film. You too, you've grown like you just know like it's over. It's over for Jerry. Like, do not let do not let bulge come out from behind that side of the glass. Do not let cookie go into that side of the studio. Just just leave as fast as you can.

57:06Josh Larsen:yeah i'd want to watch that and see you know what she does to acknowledge jerry like is that the rare moment where she's like he's not here as far as i'm concerned she doesn't she doesn't look at all at him she is straight on with bulge yeah yeah because there's because there's yeah most scenes she'll she'll try to make space for for carrie as well which is yeah um yeah it's a it's a really much more, much funnier and more, I always used to credit A Mighty Wind, which I think we're about to get to with being the more thoughtful and resonant Christopher Guest mockumentary. But there was a lot of that in Best in Show.

57:46Josh Larsen:And especially the other couple besides Cookie and Jerry, I think of were Michael McKeon and John Michael Higgins as Stefan and Scott. Like you just realize for it.

57:58Adam Kempenaar:Listen to Laugh With Me, a podcast with Jeremy Odom, right here on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm J.O., I'm your host, baby, and here's a little taste of what you are going to find on Laugh With Me. And they're like, what happened?

58:15Catherine O'Hara:I'm like, I got pepper sprayed.

58:17Adam Kempenaar:And everybody's like, oh my God, what happened? I'm like, I got pepper sprayed. I just told you. Listen to Laugh With Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

58:28Catherine O'Hara:Usually on this podcast, we'll kill you. We talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat.

59:02Catherine O'Hara:Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat.

59:36Catherine O'Hara:How is she?

59:37Adam Kempenaar:She is not with us anymore.

59:39Catherine O'Hara:Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry. Amanda Seyfried. Life is so short. if you feel something like that, you have that fire in you for this experience. It's not for a guy. It's for the experience of being in love. And like, it's bigger than a guy. Elizabeth Olsen. I love swimming naked so much. And I know you love taking pictures of yourself. I love to be naked. I just want to be in my brown underwear all the time. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh, my God.

1:00:13Catherine O'Hara:All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I'm always like, hi. I try to butch it up for kids, you know, so they're not confused. Yeah, but that you're butching it up is basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Lisa Trager. And I'm Cara Clank. We're comedians and your favorite overly invested SVU watchers. On That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, we recap iconic episodes, then talk to the stars who lived them. Like the legendary Matthew Lillard, who will never forget his time on SVU.

1:00:50Catherine O'Hara:I do remember the mustache. I will get a meme of that mustache like every like six days. I'll be like, what was this? Each week we cover the crimes, analyze the plot holes, and insult the outfits. Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her the news, but is wearing a beret. Not the time for a silly hat, Benson. What are you doing? New episodes drop every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to That's Messed Up on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:01:30Catherine O'Hara:Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week on Bookmarked, we're basically hosting the ultimate girls night. Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner, Judy Greer, Rita Wilson, and Gauri Rice and author Laura Dave. These are the women behind season two of the Apple TV series, The Last Thing He Told Me. We're talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life. The most important metric for me is do I want to share this book with somebody? That's what creates community. And that's the main thesis of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together.

1:02:07Catherine O'Hara:Listen to the bookmarked by Reese's book club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:02:15Josh Larsen:It's, you know, outrageous and, and, you know, stereotypical, we would say this couple presents like there is, they are there for each other. in every moment and in every way. And there was something just so sweet about that amidst all the laughs. And I think even with Jerry and Cookie, there is something sweet amidst all the perversity, perhaps. Without a doubt. So we're at our shared number one, if I've been following correctly. And this is in terms of the carving her own space alongside a co-star, but delivering that support, I think her performance as Mickey in A Mighty Wind is to me, the definitive O 'Hara character and, you know, really a distinctive performance in the way it, it pumps the brakes on the comedy a little bit, not saying that she isn't quite funny in A Mighty Wind.

1:03:14Josh Larsen:She's one half of Mitch and Mickey. So Eugene Levy is, is the other half Christopher guest again. And they're a folk duo who they separated years before professionally and romantically and have now been reunited for this memorial concert. And I think both of them, I think Levy too, they're really layering their improvisational genius with a feel for fully formed characters. It feels like this is something they've been working towards as collaborators, on-screen collaborators through some of the movies we've been talking about. and Mitch and Mickey are just something special. I actually had them as my number two movie band when we did that top five, that was episode 503.

1:03:56Josh Larsen:And yeah, I think with O 'Hara here, you can see how she's maybe, it's calibration, right? It's not choosing one thing over the other. It's where am I going to modulate? And I feel like here she's going slightly more, she's slightly privileging sincerity over humor while allowing both to be part of every moment that she's in. And I think there's a dexterity there that's quite special. And then to put it over the top, you have their climactic performance at this reunion concert of Kiss at the End of the Rainbow. I think here is where O 'Hare is going for sincerity. And it's funny, Adam. My notes after watching this again are so in line with what we've been talking about because that sequence, we're all waiting to see if they're going to kiss at the end of the song, right?

1:04:53Josh Larsen:This is what they used to do traditionally. The audience is waiting for it. We now vicariously as movie viewers are waiting to see if they're going to do this. And watching it this time, I think I realized that Mickey was giving that kiss as a gift to Mitch. so it wasn't this romantic thing between the two of them. It was more of a one-sided, it struck me this time as more of a one-sided gift, knowing he needed it, even if she didn't. And so it's not even a romantic need Vicky's fulfilling here, but this is a gesture of affirmation, which I think is something quite sophisticated to try to perform and a choice rather than just going for that romance, but I think it's true to who this character is, who Mickey is throughout the movie.

1:05:47Josh Larsen:And I want to real quick, before I throw it to you, share something from a listener, Luke Stanaway, because I saw his Letterboxd review of A Mighty Wind, must have watched it after O 'Hara passed. And he said this, Catherine O 'Hara can make you laugh your pants off and then with the faintest expression, break your heart. And if, yeah, there's no reason or there's a clear reason he wrote that for A Mighty Wind after watching A Mighty Wind, right? I think that's absolutely what she does here. Yeah.

1:06:14Adam Kempenaar:I did have Cookie as my number one for the longest time. And then as sometimes happens, you end up rearranging your list. The more you think about the films, the more you start justifying your picks. And all of a sudden I found myself going, no, it's got to be Mickey. It's got to be a mighty wind at number one. And a big part of it is that you, you said it, Josh, is that this character, even though she is part of this duo, it's wrestling with this very notion of supportive or being 50 % of a whole versus being 100 % of yourself. And that's what the character's wrestling with. We see O 'Hara then getting to kind of bring that out in her performance.

1:07:05Adam Kempenaar:This character is singular. And I think that separates her. She's not there just to support Levy, certainly, for most of this film. She's separated and thus separate, and she's not defined in any way as wife of, right, or partner of. And I think that that is a distinction that matters. And even at the end, when we see post-Kiss, and that's what really matters to me, as good as the Kiss is, and as amazing as it makes me feel watching it, even watching it again just on YouTube, the aftermath is what really gets me Josh and what I want to talk about and and you know she's playing is she playing the harp one of those it's not a harpsichord is it she's yeah it's something like that it's like something like I can't believe I'm blanking on that but she's she's at some kind of trade show or something where no one's paying attention to her but she even says I'm a musician again you know I'm a musician again like I I can do this on my own she she is on her own and I think that declaration matters for that character but you're not wrong that they deserve mickey and mitch micky deserve to be a top five movie band with that song that song is so good it has to be right it has to deliver for us to believe that this movie is going to build to it and that all the characters think about think about what guest has to pull off there not only musically but emotionally, if, if the entire film hinges on, we have to believe that all those people backstage are going to come to the side of the stage and look.

1:08:39Adam Kempenaar:And we as viewers to everyone in the audience, everyone watching the screen and everyone watching from the side of the stage, we're all looking for the same thing. And we're all listening to that music and being moved by it. And it works. And as I said, there's poignancy absolutely in the kiss itself, that, that kind of will they, or won't they suspense that really matters and that anticipation building because of all the onlookers. And there's a joke in there too, right? You know, when in the aftermath, there's a joke in there, like there's always going to be when Nikki says, my sister said, well, you shouldn't have let him on.

1:09:19Adam Kempenaar:You shouldn't have kissed him if he weren't going to go all the way, is what she says, you know, like this, this 1950s view of teenagers dating or something like it's so stupid, right? But it's also in a way accurate, you know, it's accurate as, as in, if all the way actually meant falling back in love, you know, reuniting, you shouldn't have kissed him if you weren't willing to commit to being all in with him. If you take it to mean that it has a serious component to it as well as in everything that kiss could, could presage. So here again with O 'Hara and with Guest, we get after a punchline comes some real pathos, right?

1:09:58Adam Kempenaar:But what I love, Josh, and I'm maybe going to push back a little bit because on your reading, because this is a revelation I think I had for the first time. And I say I think, I'll explain why I say I think I had. For the first time, watching it a few times, prepping for this top five. What I love about the end of this film post kiss and their individual explanations of what it means and where they are now as individuals is that the film structure by putting Mickey first. That that order creates the impression that she's the reasonable one. she's the one who sort of set a boundary she's the one who doesn't feel the same way about Mitch that he feels about her she is the she's not the one who took the kiss seriously while Mitch might have and so maybe when we watch him explaining to us that he that that he wasn't moved by it either and it didn't mean anything and he feels sorry for her because she might have taken it too seriously it feels to us as viewers like he's quite possibly deceiving himself.

1:11:19Adam Kempenaar:But that's because Mickey got to talk first. So does guest's choice to give Mickey primacy mean that he wants to leave us with that question? As in, Mickey is speaking from a place of conviction and honesty. She feels the way she feels as she explained it, and she's worried that Mitch did take it too seriously, and she just wanted the drama. It was just performance and that was it. Or is the ambiguity there to make us consider, and I'm going to argue that I think we have to, that it's quite likely that Mickey took the kiss no less seriously than Mitch. and she's also rationalizing just like he is.

1:12:05Adam Kempenaar:I think the ambiguity leaves the door open that both are really tender people. Both are too scared of what the kiss could mean. Both are maybe protecting themselves. Both are protecting each other. Or maybe it's only one of them, Josh, but maybe it's Mickey, not Mitch, that feels the way we all think Mitch does. You know what I mean? I think the ambiguity is there that we read it a certain way because Mickey talks first, but maybe that's not the way we should feel about it.

1:12:34Josh Larsen:Yeah, I guess I'm, you know, I didn't watch the ending scene, so I don't think I was so influenced by the positioning of their testimonies, as we might describe it, as just the scene itself and my understanding of who Mickey's been up until that point, where it did seem to me like she was in a more secure place. And Mitch is the one who had the serious breakdown over this, right? It's almost like, that goes back to my notion of the kiss being a gift, is her understanding that maybe this isn't a chance for us to rekindle our romance, but this is a chance for me, This would be Mickey thinking to end things well, where I didn't before.

1:13:24Josh Larsen:And I'm basing that mostly again, in O 'Hara's performance in the actual kiss scene, in the actual moment where, where she's, she's walking a fine line there too, both as O 'Hara performer and as Mickey performer. Right. Um, but of course, to your point, like you have to allow those ambiguities for, for this to even be envisioned as an either or in terms of its scripting or its performing would have ruined it, right? If you want, you want all those human complications to be at play. And I think you see that on the part of, of both performers to allow us to ask these questions.

1:14:01Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, for sure. And, and what, what makes it even more dramatically interesting is everything you've said. It makes, it, it makes for dramatic irony that maybe this entire time she's viewed it this way and she's been that character and she's the one who separated herself from him. And then at the end, she actually found herself in the moment feeling more moved by it than she expected. Yeah. I think that's

1:14:24Josh Larsen:absolutely there. Right.

1:14:26Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. Slash he did even, you know, that could be possible. Right. And so when I said, when I said, I think so, I think this was a revelation of ambiguity I had. It's only because I went back and looked at my letterboxed review and I just really had a paragraph on it, though it's one of the ones that I've gotten more comments. I don't know, it's in my top 15 or something. And I said, despite the brilliance of the lines above, and I quote John Michael Hughes, his character, when he said, wow, what a line deliverer, a comedic line deliverer, when he says, there had been abuse in my family, but it was mostly musical in nature.

1:15:03Adam Kempenaar:My father used to lock me in a way, my father used to lock me away in a room with nothing but the Percy Faith recording of Bim Bam Boom, and then send me to bed with nothing but dessert. Okay. So I said, despite the brilliance of the lines above, I can't say wind is quite as funny as best in show or Guffman. And actually, I'm not sure I still feel that way. I need to revisit all these films, but it is certainly more poignant. Everything hinges on the Mitch and Mickey performance to your point, Josh, and that kiss past and present collapsing and colliding, which Levy and O 'Hara nail naturally.

1:15:38Adam Kempenaar:Most affecting, though, is the aftermath where Guest lets the former lovers each frame the moment and its meaning. If there's a more sensitive, sad example of the human capacity for rationalization in all of Guest's work, I'd love to see it. So rereading that, when I say rationalization, clearly I was seeing it in at least one of the characters. the the idea being as it's as it's played straight if you if you take mickey at face value it's mitch who's rationalizing protecting himself and going oh i i hope mickey didn't take that too seriously and i hope she's okay right and he's the one who's rationalizing i i think that's how i meant it right not that both of them were potentially rationalizing but i love to think about it now as maybe, wow, what if they both were, what if Mickey actually is still kind of reeling from this kiss?

1:16:30Josh Larsen:It's fun to think about. I think O 'Hara's performance is, you know, sophisticated enough in a broad comedy like this to, to allow for that possibility.

1:16:38Adam Kempenaar:Well, those are our top five Catherine O 'Hara characters. Any additional characters you want to throw in honorable mentions?

1:16:47Josh Larsen:I mean, you had my honorable mention, um, you know, Delia in, In Beetlejuice, I do think that's a great performance. Actually, I'll throw in one more as we're talking about Christopher Guest, too. For your consideration is the rare mockumentary misfire. I think it's pretty generally agreed. But O 'Hara is actually one of the rare elements that works. She plays a career actress who becomes undone a little bit by this acclaim she receives during the Hollywood awards season. And, you know, I haven't watched this. I don't think I've watched this twice, but I do wonder if there are maybe seeds of Moira Rose in some way in that character.

1:17:26Josh Larsen:So wouldn't recommend for your consideration necessarily to go catch up with. But I do think if you've seen everything else O 'Hara has done and have not seen that because it didn't get great reviews, maybe check it out. Because my memory is she is at least quite good in it. And then I will mention, I listened to on occasion the Julia Louis-Dreyfus podcast, Wiser Than Me. And she had maybe a year and a half ago, maybe it was a little longer. She had Catherine O 'Hara on as a guest. And just to listen to these two improvisational, you know, sketch comedians talk about all sorts of stuff beyond the business.

1:18:07Josh Larsen:But, you know, that that business stuff is is just gold. So I would recommend tracking that conversation down. That podcast is called Wiser Than Me.

1:18:16Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, that's a good poll. I definitely I wasn't aware of that and I would like to hear it for me. Moira Rose is definitely one. Obviously, as I said, I considered she I think is maybe in the movie for only one scene, but it is, as you would expect, a memorable scene. the paper, the Michael Keaton and Robert Duvall film from 1994. She is in a scene where she's meeting Marissa Tomei, who is Michael Keaton's wife for lunch in the daytime. And she's a former journalist herself, like Marissa Tomei's character who gave it up, you know, to, to kind of be there as the supportive wife to her husband, gave up her career to raise the kids.

1:18:57Adam Kempenaar:And as the camera and Marissa Tomei's point of view as her eyes keep noticing. It's O 'Hara's character who keeps filling the wine glass, you know, basically up to the top in the middle of the day, you know, and she's a little bit acerbic there in that scene. Let's just say she's not too happy about the choices that she has made. And in addition to Schitt's Creek from a TV standpoint, you know, she did win for the studio as Patti Lee. And I haven't seen all of the studio. I haven't finished that season, but I have seen enough episodes to really enjoy her performances, Patty, and that I did want to, even though I haven't seen it at all, but in a lot of remembrances of O 'Hara, her performance as another Gale, I believe, in The Last of Us, Josh, is someone who gets called out in a fair number of, you know, top 10 O 'Hara characters and in or on one website, a list that paid tribute to her consequence of sound.

1:20:04Catherine O'Hara:This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she?

1:20:12Adam Kempenaar:She is not with us.

1:20:14Catherine O'Hara:She great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry. Amanda Seyfried. Life is so short. If you feel something like that, you have that fire in you for this experience. It's not for a guy. It's for the experience of being in love and like it's bigger than a guy. Elizabeth Olsen. I love swimming naked so much. And I know you love taking pictures of yourself naked. Yes, I love to be naked. I just want to be in my brown underwear all the time. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl?

1:20:48Catherine O'Hara:Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I'm always like, hi. I try to butch it up for kids, you know, so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up is basically like Doris Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on this podcast, We'll Kill You, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going.

1:21:21Catherine O'Hara:When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system, with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network.

1:22:01Catherine O'Hara:Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week on Bookmarked, we're basically hosting the ultimate girls night. Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner, Judy Greer, Rita Wilson, and Gauri Rice and author Laura Dave. These are the women behind season two of the Apple TV series, The Last Thing He Told Me. We're talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life. The most important metric for me is do I want to share this book with somebody?

1:22:40Catherine O'Hara:That's what creates community. And that's the main thesis of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together. Listen to the bookmarked by Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Liza Traeger. And I'm Cara Clank. We're comedians and your favorite overly invested SVU watchers. And that's messed up an On SVU Podcast, we recap iconic episodes, then talk to the stars who lived them. Like the legendary Matthew Lillard, who will never forget his time on SVU. I do remember the mustache. I will get a meme of that mustache like every like six days.

1:23:20Catherine O'Hara:I'll be like, what was this? Each week we cover the crimes, analyze the plot holes and insult the outfits. Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her the news, but is wearing a beret. Not the time for a silly hat, Benson. What are you doing? New episodes drop every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to That's Messed Up on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dun-dun!

1:23:51Adam Kempenaar:They said this. O 'Hara got an Emmy nomination for her portrayal of a therapist who has no interest in healing herself after the death of her husband, a death she blames Joel Pedro Pascal for. As lovely and sunny as her onscreen persona could be, the role of Gail was a powerful reminder of how much deep emotion she brought to her work. Not to mention her talent for her. Here's the word acerbic. For acerbic turns a phrase. Your heart broke for Gail, and you also related to her no fucks to give anymore attitude. The Last of Us boasts some memorable performances, and O 'Hara's tender Emmy-nominated turn as Gail is no exception.

1:24:24Adam Kempenaar:So if you're looking for a, it sounds like almost deadly serious performance from O 'Hara, The Last of Us, maybe one to check out. And once again, those are our top five Catherine O 'Hara performances. You can check out our lists and the scenes we mentioned links to those on YouTube by going to filmspotting.net slash lists.

1:24:47Josh Larsen:Let's take a moment to thank our FilmSpotting family members for their support of the show. We want to especially thank Maggie Gilmore from Wichita and Brad in Vancouver Island, Canada. Brad included an exclamation point there at the end of Canada. Sure, we'll give Canada an exclamation point. Maggie wrote in this, I know I've been a listener for at least eight years, but I can't for the life of me remember how I found FilmSpotting. I'm also a long-time listener of sillier movie podcasts, The Flophouse and Doug Loves Movies, so I probably stumbled across film spotting on a recommendation list and haven't looked back since.

1:25:22Josh Larsen:One early episode I remember really enjoying was The Florida Project, because that film shot up to one of my all-time favorites after watching it based on your review. Love hearing that, Maggie. Brad also shared a bit here. Circus 2017, what an awesome year for film. I stumbled upon the pod after seeking out recommendations on Reddit. The Phantom Thread review stands out in retrospect. I was working at an independent two-screen cinema at the time it was showing, and your insights and perspectives helped it climb the ranks of my personal all-time favorites.

1:25:57Adam Kempenaar:Wonderful. Maggie says her favorite show segment is Film Spotting Madness. It's a favorite every year because there's nothing I love more than an excuse to make a list and check things off of it. Oh, Maggie, we should get together and go bowling sometime. Brad says, I treasure the year-end top 10 list, such a wide variety of films, and it's always a joy to discover new favorites.

1:26:18Josh Larsen:We asked them both if they had a random favorite film or filmmaker. Maggie suggested Strictly Ballroom, said, I think it's an underrated Baz Luhrmann gem. For Brad, he's going with a Charlie Kaufman. He's going with Charlie Kaufman. saying, I love my existential dread. And yeah, maybe this is a good time to note, Adam, that speaking of actors passing, veteran character actor Tom Noonan news that he died and Tom Noonan appeared in two Kaufman films, Synecdoche, New York, and Anomalisa, the voice of, I think, all the characters in Anomalisa. That sounds right. It's been a long time. Yeah, pretty remarkable concept that Noonan, you know, made work brilliantly.

1:27:08Adam Kempenaar:He is Francis Dolaride, aka the Tooth Fairy and Manhunter, and he's Kelso, the wheelchair-bound hacker in Heat. He was in Ty West's House of the Devil and Last Action Hero, Robocop 2. He's in Jarmusch's Mystery Train. Man, Heaven's Gate, that infamous movie, and Todd Haynes' Wonderstruck as well. a very, very memorable character, actor, and sad to hear that news. Sam shared this with me, and for some reason, I came across it recently. I think I actually played it, maybe, Josh, in a class for some reason where I was talking about Synecdoche, New York. I played the scene, if you can find it on YouTube, the scene that's the audition scene where he is playing, he's auditioning to play the role of the Philip Seymour Hoffman character and how he's going to embody him.

1:27:57Adam Kempenaar:And it is something. It's really good. A movie you credit with becoming a cinephile, Maggie says, I distinctly remember coming back from winter break in January 2002 after having my mind blown by the Fellowship of the Rings and being deeply disappointed that none of my fellow sixth graders had any idea what I was talking about. Yeah, kids. Brad says, okay, I love this. 50-50. I'm so serious. Everybody listening right now is typing into their computer or phone. What's 50-50? Yes, the Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Seth Rogen movie. And Sam notes here that last week, a family member had the Gordon-Levitt starring.

1:28:39Adam Kempenaar:Yes, that's true. 500 days of summer in this slot. I do remember that, Sam. And here we have 50-50. Now, I do remember talking about 50-50. I think I may have even given it a recommendation, maybe a mild one, but a recommendation. 50-50, though, is one of those films, Josh. We need to compile a list someday of the movies that time forgot on film spotting. Movies that you just sort of go, really, that was a film? You almost don't remember that it ever came out, that you talked about it, that you reviewed it. But when someone says it, you go, oh, yeah, I think that was a thing. Well, apparently it was a thing.

1:29:18Adam Kempenaar:Brad remembers it.

1:29:19Josh Larsen:This is why I have my Larson Film website. It may be public-facing, Adam, but it's really for me, so I can answer such questions. I did remember this was a cancer drama. I knew that when I heard the title. And apparently, big fan. Three and a half out of four stars. Three and a half out of four. I said it was deeply affecting and admirably even-keeled. So there you go, 50-50.

1:29:44Adam Kempenaar:Okay. Thank you, Maggie and Brad for being family members and for all of those years of listening. If you'd like to follow them on Letterboxd, you can follow Maggie. She is Maggie Gilmore and Brad is B-Rad. I think you get the gist with both of their names there. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, membership does come with perks. You get to listen early and ad-free. You get our weekly newsletter. You get to be part of the FilmSpotting family Discord. And you get monthly bonus shows just earlier this week. you got our conversation with producer Sam about Akira Kurosawa's drunken angel, a blind spot for all three of us.

1:30:20Adam Kempenaar:We're all pretty happy that we did finally see that movie. Not surprisingly, pretty good film with Toshiro Mifune. We all liked it. How about that? Yeah. Yeah. It, we went for it. Spoilers. More information about joining the film spotting family is available at filmspottingfamily.com. And you can also help out the show by rating or reviewing us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Go ahead. Just take a second. Just click five stars. Why not?

1:31:02Adam Kempenaar:next week here on the show josh we will continue our film spotting pantheon project homework with akira kurosawa's rashomon the director's 1950 masterpiece this is one We have both seen, though it has probably been a while. It is the second of three films that we are taking another look at before they become officially eligible for the Pantheon. I believe it was producer Sam who nominated this as a marathon movie, a former marathon title.

1:31:37Josh Larsen:that sounds correct.

1:31:39Adam Kempenaar:He wants to be eligible. He wants it to be considered for the Pantheon. Nine total nominees is how we do it now. Six have been reviewed on the show, discussed in depth by the two of us. But then we have three that haven't. Maybe they've been talked about on the show before in its 20-year history, but not really been dug into by the two of us. And Rashomon's one of those two films. And one of those other films was John Ford's How Green Was My Valley. But we took care of that. on our last show, Josh, and I'm looking at that film spotting family discord. I don't know. It's only a couple of posts, but we seem to be kind of in the minority in terms of how much we enjoyed that film.

1:32:19Josh Larsen:I mean, I think we just need a few more people to watch how green was my Valley. I know those who didn't quite go for it have seen it, but yeah, I was so heartened by your really enthusiastic response to it that I think there have to be others who would enjoy it quite as much. And it matters, right? We put these Pantheon eligible films to a vote to decide which two at the end of this process in, I don't know, maybe a month or so, we'll put it to a vote and see which two of these nine nominees actually get in. So yeah, watch the movies that we're actually discussing on the show. Heck, watch all nine if you want, if you have time and be an informed voter.

1:33:01Josh Larsen:And yeah, let us know what you think about How Green Was My Valley if you've never seen it before, let us know what you think about Rashomon if you watch it a second or third time in preparation for our discussion next week.

1:33:11Adam Kempenaar:You can do that. Watch Rashomon on the Criterion channel, also HBO Max and available on other platforms, VOD. Our plan next week, tying in with Rashomon, is to share our top five unreliable narrators. Turns out in the 20 plus your history of the show, we have done our top five movies with narrators that was done in like the first year or two of film spotting, but we have never devoted a top five to unreliable narrators. I think it'll be good.

1:33:44Josh Larsen:Who would have thought there was still an obvious top five that we could tackle for the show. And can we have a quick on air production meeting? Yes. Clarification. Okay. Top five unreliable narrators. Are we choosing the actual narrators or are we choosing the films?

1:34:04Adam Kempenaar:So because that could make a distinction for which way I go.

1:34:09Josh Larsen:I don't have a preference necessarily.

1:34:11Adam Kempenaar:I, I have not started forming my list, so I have not, I've not faced this conundrum myself, but my initial response, Josh, is this is one of those cases where. I think unreliable narrators is more fun and easy to say than unreliable narrator movies. But I think we're talking about the movies, not the narrators. Okay. That's how I think. But I also know that Sam's probably now listening to this going, no, you're wrong, Adam. Of course, it's the characters that are more interesting and we'll change our mind by the time we actually record the next show. I don't know. What do you think?

1:34:49Josh Larsen:It's very possible. Um, I think my instinct was to think of it the same way you did, because yes, we have many top fives where you just don't tag movies on the end. Um, I also think I like the freedom of that because there's no reason you can't choose a top five unreliable narrator movie and focus on the actual narrator. Whereas if we say it has to be your, the narrator we're choosing, that's kind of like what you have to, you know what I mean? It's almost like a character versus movie. And I think what might be more interesting for a list like this is to talk about how the movies as a whole are unreliable.

1:35:30Josh Larsen:I agree. And the narrator is obviously the most crucial part of that. But, you know, maybe the narrator is unreliable in a different way that the movie is unreliable.

1:35:40Adam Kempenaar:And so there's just more places to go, maybe. I initially agree. And I think that's how we should approach it. Let's let's we will let's we will submit our proposal to Sam. Yeah. OK, we'll plan on that. You can send your initial pics to feedback at filmspotting.net and, you know, do it, do it soon because we will take any help. that we can get. In two weeks, the weekend right before the Oscars, we will drop our Oscar special with Michael Phillips, who will win, who should win, and who should have been nominated. You get a say in all of this too. You can go to filmspotting.net right now and submit your official Film Spotting ranked choice best picture ballot.

1:36:22Adam Kempenaar:It is right there, a link on the main page. We will announce the winner with all due solemnity on that Oscars special. Have you submitted yours, Josh? I have not. No. I wait till the last minute. I haven't either. You wait until the end. Procrastinator. Okay. To get a glimpse of what we have planned for future episodes, you can go to filmspotting.net and click on episodes right there at the top of the page.

1:36:48Josh Larsen:There's been a lot of 90s nostalgia going on at our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at cinemas present via its past. it's their pop classics pairing so they first delved into bas lerman's romeo plus juliet 1996 man i i think i kind of want to watch that again now after hearing their discussion of course they're pairing this with wuthering heights which we reviewed recently on the show it's kind of an inspired pairing especially if you've seen wuthering heights so yeah i've enjoyed that first episode, the Wuthering Heights one, is out now, so you can listen to these back-to-back if you so choose.

1:37:31Josh Larsen:New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday, and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, time now for Massacre Theater, where Adam and I perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last time we massacred this scene.

1:37:46Catherine O'Hara:I can't do this. Sure you can.

1:37:50Josh Larsen:There, there, that's my queen. Right, here we go. I don't want to get married. I want to stay single and let my hair flow in the wind as I ride through the glen, firing arrows into the sunset. That was Billy Connolly and Emma Thompson in 2012's Brave, written by Mark Andrews, Irene Mechie, Steve Purcell, and Brenda Chapman, directed by Chapman and Andrews. Our massacre of that scene was part of our Train Spotting at 30 show. We also shared our Pantheon nominees on that episode, and there's always a tie-in, And so why that scene from Brave?

1:38:24Adam Kempenaar:Here's Daniel Foguccio in Blue Mountains. That's west of Sydney, Australia. Sounds lovely. He says, been a listener and supporter. At one stage, I was labeled beyond platinum. Thank you, Daniel, for 20 odd years. And I think this may be the first time I've entered Massacre Theater. I think it is Eleanor, Emma Thompson, and Ferguson, Billy Connolly. You're right. In Disney Pixar's Brave. They are discussing their daughter, Merida's Kelly McDonald. And there's your train spotting link. Fierce independent streak. The funny thing is I watched this just two days ago as I decided I wanted to go back to my favorite Pixar films, and this is one of my favorite.

1:38:59Josh Larsen:All right. Nice taste, Daniel. Here's Josh Glover from West Fargo, North Dakota. Tie-ins include Kevin McKidd, who is in both films as Tommy in Trainspotting and the voice of Lord MacGuffin in Brave. I didn't know that, Josh. Huh. Of course we knew that, Josh. Did you know this one, Adam? I'm sure you did. McKidd also voiced the character of Fen Rao in the Star Wars Rebels series, which features the final, final battle between Darth Maul and one Obi-Wan Kenobi, who, while not voiced by him there, was played in the live action pre-boots of the Star Wars, the Clone Wars series by Ewan McGregor, who was also in Train's Body.

1:39:39Josh Larsen:Also, maybe because both Train -

1:39:41Adam Kempenaar:I'm a big Rebels guy. Yeah. It's my favorite of all the series. I was going to let that go by, but sorry.

1:39:47Josh Larsen:to not allow you space to say that. Also, Josh continues, maybe because both Trainspotting and Brave are set in Scotland and Kelly MacDonald is in both as Diane and the voice of Merida, the name of which was changed to Carla Jean in the homage to her for No Country for Old Men character.

1:40:07Adam Kempenaar:That is correct. Here's Dan Wright in St. Louis. He says, Josh, great accent work this week. It ends with a question mark. I don't know why. I think that's, I think that's supposed to be an exclamation point. Like Canada. Yeah. It's a typo. This week's massacre theater is Pixar's brave. A movie I loved when I saw it in the theater and have not put much thought into it since it might be time for a revisit. Well, there you go. Like Daniel. Why not?

1:40:31Josh Larsen:One more comment here from Dylan Dom and Blair, Nebraska. It's Josh's beloved and boring. Sorry, Josh brave. Ouch. I'd love to hear Josh or Adam take on Kelly McDonald's. No country for old men accent next. That might be more painful than Scott.

1:40:49Catherine O'Hara:This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry. Amanda Seyfried. Life is so short. If you feel something like that, you have that fire in you for this experience. It's not for a guy. It's for the experience of being in love. And like, it's bigger than a guy. Elizabeth Olsen. I love swimming naked so much. And I know you love taking pictures of yourself naked.

1:41:25Catherine O'Hara:Yes. I love to be naked. I just want to be in my brown underwear all the time. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I know. So I'm always like, hi. I try to butch it up for kids, you know, so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Doris Day. Right? No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on this podcast will kill you, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick.

1:42:00Catherine O'Hara:But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words.

1:42:33Catherine O'Hara:Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Lisa Traeger. And I'm Cara Clank. We're comedians and your favorite overly invested SVU watchers. On That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, we recap iconic episodes, then talk to the stars who lived them. Like the legendary Matthew Lillard, who will never forget his time on SVU.

1:43:11Catherine O'Hara:I do remember the mustache. I will get a meme of that mustache like every like six days. I'll be like, what was this? Each week we cover the crimes, analyze the plot holes and insult the outfits. Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her the news, but is wearing a beret. Not the time for a silly hat, Benson. What are you doing? New episodes drop every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to That's Messed Up on iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:43:50Catherine O'Hara:Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week on Bookmarked, we're basically hosting the ultimate girls night. Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner, Judy Greer, Rita Wilson, and Gauri Rice and author Laura Dave. These are the women behind season two of the Apple TV series, The Last Thing He Told Me. We're talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life. The most important metric for me is do I want to share this book with somebody? That's what creates community. And that's the main thesis of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together.

1:44:28Catherine O'Hara:Listen to the bookmarked by Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:44:37Josh Larsen:West Texas?

1:44:39Adam Kempenaar:Someday, Dylan, you might get your dream. All right. The hat pretty brimming, Josh. This one, I guess, was fairly easy. Go ahead, reach into it and pick out this week's winner. Our winner is Abby from Denton, Texas. I love that Abby won, Josh, because if I'm remembering her email correctly, she's actually this this may anger some people. She's actually not really a film spotting listener. It's her husband who listens to the show. She just likes to listen to Massacre Theater. She's a listener to the show then. I guess that counts, right? And she won her husband a prize in this case, I guess. Yeah, come on.

1:45:16Adam Kempenaar:It works. Congrats, Abby. You're legit. You're legit. Congrats, Abby and Abby's husband. You can email feedback at filmspotting.net to claim your prize, filmspotting tote bag, filmspotting t-shirt, or a trial membership to the filmspotting family.

1:45:33Josh Larsen:Would the detours assemble?

1:45:36Catherine O'Hara:Would the detours assemble? Would the detour so simple? Would the detour so simple? My dear boy, why do you say that? Why do you say twer? Well, you say it like I said.

1:45:47Adam Kempenaar:We move on to this week's edition of Massacre Theatre. And I guess I have to, well, I have to hate Sam because he's going to make me sing, which is something I can't do at all. Everyone's going to hear that in a moment, Josh. but this is the first opportunity I get to, to break out my brand new guitar. I just bought this. Wow.

1:46:11Josh Larsen:First performance ever. Wow. Yeah. You know what? First performance. You get to write it off as an expense. There you go.

1:46:18Adam Kempenaar:There you go. That's exactly, that's right. It is an electric guitar. I don't have it plugged in. I'm not going to play the acoustic because I want to play this. So it is a musical number here. Do we need to say anything else?

1:46:31Josh Larsen:Not only am I distressed because I was literally kicked out of middle school choir for, I'm going to say 60 % performance reasons and 40 % behavioral reasons. So really it's because I couldn't sing. So I have that hanging over my head. And also the rehearsal process for massacre theater is usually Sam will suggest a scene. I'll watch it. Sure. We'll do that. And then just before we record it, we'll watch it again. Right? So I did watch this scene maybe eight, 10 hours ago. I don't know what's going on with my VPN. I can't access it here in Scotland, the YouTube clip that Sam shared. So I'm pretty much going in half blind, half blind with no sense of tune listeners.

1:47:16Josh Larsen:Enjoy.

1:47:18Adam Kempenaar:enjoy is not the right word for this i actually started off with the guitar so you're going to give me the action i am as ready as i am going to be josh and action

1:47:35Josh Larsen:whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa what are you singing there you got the root and sing you singing the

1:47:41Adam Kempenaar:root? No. Singing. Everybody's gonna sing. Didn't I give you a sixth? I don't think so. Can you give me a sixth there? Can you sing a sixth?

1:47:54Josh Larsen:Everybody's gonna sing.

1:47:56Adam Kempenaar:No.

1:47:57Josh Larsen:Everybody's gonna sing. Sing. Sure. Let's try it again. One, two, three. Can I say what? I'm sorry.

1:48:08Adam Kempenaar:Go ahead. No. You got a problem on the bridge? No, I was going to, can I switch? Can I change out of my costume? Costume? Are you hot? Yeah. But also, I mean, I've been wearing it for a month.

1:48:20Josh Larsen:You know the policy. We all got to wear, we all got to wear the uniform until we're ready to take it off. I think you're real close. I just don't think you're quite there yet. You did not sing that sixth and I want to see you

1:48:33Adam Kempenaar:sing that sixth and scene as as anyone out there like listeners like taylor cole in the chicago area anyone out there who's a music teacher they all know that neither one of us came anywhere close to singing a sixth i played the sixth i don't even know what that means so i i know what it means and i played it but neither of us sang it so that that is it for this week's edition of massacre theater if you know what film we mercifully survived if you know what film we just massacred email the movie's title your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net the deadline is monday march 9th we will select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks but honestly josh everyone i got to hear that they're all the winners sure and that's the show yeah we killed the show i love it when we end with these kind the numbers, you know, the massacre theater, just like, there's nowhere to go.

1:49:34Adam Kempenaar:Just, just end it.

1:49:35Josh Larsen:For some reason, if after that you want to connect with the show on social media, I guess you could find Adam in the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube. He's at film spotting. I promise I won't sing at you on my social channels. I'm at Larson on film. Film spotting is independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com. That way you'll be able to listen early and ad-free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive. For show t-shirts and other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop.

1:50:16Adam Kempenaar:In the archive, that Film Spotting archive, we have some Catherine O 'Hara conversations, though you have to go way back. Sam has noted where the wild things are, episode 278, away we go. Oh, yes, she was in that episode 261. And Sam swears we reviewed for your consideration in 2006. He might be right, but he says he can't find it in the film spotting guide to the archives. And now listener Bill McLaughlin is just going to be off on a wild goose chase. He's going to think he did something wrong. I'm not sure we reviewed it. So I don't know. We'll we'll get some detectives on the case in limited release.

1:50:51Adam Kempenaar:Pillion is expanding. I'm definitely hoping to catch up with that one. Jessica Chastain is a socialite engaged in a dangerous affair with a Mexican ballet dancer. Okay. In Michelle Franco's class critique, Dreams, Werner Herzog has a new documentary out, Josh, Ghost Elephants. How about that? I'm intrigued. In wide release, Scream 7. If I had said, if you weren't looking at the page in front of you and I had said, Josh, there's a new Scream movie coming out. What number do you think goes on, appends to the end of it? what would you have said would you have known it was seven i i would have guessed six or seven i

1:51:29Josh Larsen:am up to this point adam a scream completist so i'm gonna need i'm gonna need to see this and probably will because the last two i think there's two are the most you know not like the reimagined ones they've been interesting i wouldn't say they've been anything like the first film but they've been interesting so so yeah might have to catch up with this and report back Okay.

1:51:52Adam Kempenaar:Also available VOD, you can see, or streaming, you can see on Prime, Paul McCartney, Man on the Run, the latest documentary from Morgan Neville. And if you haven't heard it already, check out the Film Spotting feed and hear my conversation with the director, Morgan Neville. Next week on the show, we will have a discussion for our Pantheon project of Akira Kurosawa's renowned Rashomon, and we will share our top five unreliable narrators.

1:52:20Josh Larsen:Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Dessault and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

1:52:38Adam Kempenaar:And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:52:53Catherine O'Hara:The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. The human body is a beautiful machine. And keeping it running means understanding how it actually works. Which is why this podcast will kill you is doing a multi-part series on sleep.

1:53:33Catherine O'Hara:What it's for, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life is not helping. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We'll continue exploring how the body works with a multi-part series on digestive function. So listen to our newest series, which runs January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday. From the Exactly Right Network, listen to This Podcast Will Kill You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked, the podcast by Reese's Book Club.

1:54:04Catherine O'Hara:And this week on Bookmarked, we're basically hosting the ultimate girls' night. Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner, Judy Greer, Rita Wilson, and Gary Rice, and author Laura Dave. These are the women behind season two of the Apple TV series, The Last Thing He Told Me. We're talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life. The most important metric for me is do I want to share this book with somebody? That's what creates community. And that's the main thesis of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together. Listen to the Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:55:06Catherine O'Hara:And I was like, no, no. I'm not the one with the game-like problem. It's murder, comedy, and behind-the-scenes tea. Sometimes about iced tea. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search That's Messed Up, and listen now.