Frankenstein Review, Hedda, Christy, Peter Hujar’s Day

29:45That element is still there, but the performance isn't overwhelmed by it. And of course, the longing behind his eyes, his gentleness, you absolutely understand why Elizabeth would be drawn to him. Separating out any kind of romantic attachment, you understand why she is drawn to him. But also when he needs to let loose as the monster, Elordi also summons the rage very effectively as well. And so this praise for Elordi, I agree. I think it's the strength of the film along with a lot of what del Toro is doing visually. And this disappointment with Isaac or disappointment with how Isaac is directed maybe or conceived with just a bit too much gusto gets it another aspect of what frustrated me.

30:38And you've said it, but I'm going to quote you again. In your book, you said, if anything, about the 31 version, you said, if anything, my sympathies lie with the poor creature, given the legendary Boris Karloff's dignified performance, all sad eyes and limp limbs. I'm never really afraid of Karloff's lost lurching orphan. Rather, it's Dr. Frankenstein himself who survives the film, who serves as a haunting reminder of my own tendency to think that I can do God one better. Del Toro clearly reads the Frankenstein story the same way you read that, which isn't surprising. His work has always revealed that humans are the real monsters, but his affection for this monster is so overwhelming that it softens the edges of his vision.

31:25simplifying the the the complex volatile dynamic between creator and creation that should drive the film's emotional and dramatic core i think that's where it's undone a little bit not only am i not sure we need a frankenstein a movie frankenstein where the creature actually verbalizes to us verbalizes to frankenstein and by extension us you're the monster if and when he does say it, and he does here, that needs to hit us as viewers as hard as it hits or should hit Frankenstein. Or at minimum, it has to intensify some existing strong tension. And here, Frankenstein by this point, certainly, but even before, is so obviously the monster whose moral compromises have ceased being compromises that we as audience members, or speaking for myself anyway as an audience member, has been conflicted about.

32:28The creature is just a little bit too angelic. Frankenstein is too demonic. There's not enough blurring of those extremes to make it as compelling as I think it needs to be. Definitely not enough, and this helps get at my first point, Definitely not enough to launch the final act and the emotional resolution between the two that del Toro tries to offer us. okay so a lot going on there um one thing that supports your point of view is and maybe this came up with your student on the car ride back about the book but the the creature slash monster in the book is more monstrous like like takes murderous acts that are far more appalling than anything we see here that supports your point um it muddles things a little bit right uh in our relation to him.

33:25So I can see that. Now, that would not have worked with what I think del Toro is doing here in terms of moving this towards the romantic necessarily. So personally, it doesn't bother me. The Oscar Isaac performance is a curiosity. It's entertaining. I don't understand the choice though of making him this cocky heartthrob. I mean, half of his experiments are done shirtless, which, you know, fine, no complaints there. But in terms of the envisioning of this character, I'm trying to understand what they are going for. I found the relation to be a little more fruitful, the relationship between Creature and Frankenstein.

34:10However, because there is a tenderness that is there from the very beginning. And the push and pull for me is watching Victor Frankenstein follow that instinct and then follow his instinct to move away from the creature and care for him in any way. There's a line in this where I believe he says something like, I never thought about what would happen after creation. And maybe that's the key to this vision of Frankenstein, because that is why he is the playboy. The playboy doesn't think about being the dad. He just thinks about what it takes to become a dad, that act. And similarly, this Victor Frankenstein is only thinking about the consummation, the experiment, and not necessarily having to wake up with an infant in the middle of the night.

35:11So I think there's some of that that's going on. I will defend though the third act. And again, maybe this will move us into spoilers because there are some exchanges there, um, between Victor and the creature that I found quite moving, but I agree with you. They're not necessarily entirely set up by what we've gotten before in a previous section. Well, before we get to that, it's, it's amazing how I suppose after doing the show, as long as we have together, we do not discuss any of this ahead of time. And yet, we seem to set up each other with the points we want to make. I wanted to say, Josh, that where I certainly had sympathy for Victor, and where I also was really provoked by the film in a way I didn't expect to be, is in those first moments after this creation comes to life.

36:09That line that you said, but even without the line, Frankenstein appearing at the foot of his bed and him having to process that range of emotions from fear to elation slash pride to then. Now what? That's a good moment. Walking him downstairs, chaining him up, all that work. Think about all that work, the emotional, intellectual, financial, the investment, your life's work, essentially. And really, you can think about it as your life's work from the moment you've been born, all the training, your mother's passing, right? All of it's led to this. all of it's led to you creating this and you do it now what and the thing is it mirrors on a on a much grander level but on that that expansive scale it mirrors what having a baby is like for parents what it is like for parents to to have babies and some have a much more difficult time of it than others with a lot more financial investment, right?

37:23And, and have to go through a lot more of a struggle, no matter how equipped you are. And I've always been grateful or felt, felt fortunate that I had a wife who was an OB nurse. I, I couldn't, I couldn't have felt more comfortable because I, I couldn't have had a wife who was more comfortable and prepared to take care of a baby. Also, I had four younger sisters. So I grew up having babies around me and felt pretty comfortable already in that way. But with all of that said, there's still a moment where you get discharged the first time and go, wait, now what do I do? I'm responsible for this this thing forever.

38:12And, and I hadn't thought of it, as I said, going into the movie, but sure enough, this is, this is something the student told me when I brought this up on the way home, there has been a lot of reading of Frankenstein as a postpartum novel, as, as you would imagine. And Shelley apparently lost an infant after childbirth and had multiple difficult pregnancies. So, so that's an element that is, is there. It's certainly there for the interpretation. And I, It was something that the movie made me think about. Yeah. And I think that's kind of a fascinating twist on envisioning this Victor Frankenstein as the parent, the parent figure.

38:50I think this is part of the emotionality that Del Toro is bringing to an unexpected place, you know, to a monster movie, which he's done many times before. Do you have anything else you want to say or do you want to get into spoilers? The other interesting thing, maybe before we get into spoilers, is Mia Goth as... You mentioned how it wasn't a romantic relationship between her and the creature. And I think that's important because Mia Goth's Elizabeth in some ways... Well, there's subtext. Yeah, but it could be the point of the relationship, and I don't think it is here. I think she's more importantly a foil to Victor because he is, I talked about him talking about God being inept.

39:35And how does Elizabeth describe things? She talks about God's design when she starts to see some of Victor's early experiments or when she's talking about insects, right? And I think what she shares with the creature is a capacity for wonder. And this is what Victor doesn't have, because it's partly why he lets go of the rope once the creature is born. That's the moment for wonder, to look and stand in awe at this being, but he's just more invested in creating it, right? Whereas Elizabeth shares the sensibility of, well, the sensibility of we see the creature in that wonderfully designed basement.

40:18I guess it's a morgue, but it's also like a butcher shop, essentially where he's chained and it has this gutter running down the middle of the floor, mostly for blood, the blood to run out of the castle, but occasionally water will stream through it. And the creature has this instinct to drop a leaf into the flow of water and be delighted by its path. That's what he shares with Elizabeth. The fact that they take joy and delight in such moments. These are romantic moments. So I think her character who is, you know, not in the novel, kind of a, a, a variation of a very minor figure in the novel.

40:58I think her character is, is key as both the foil to Victor and the, the partner in that way to the creature. So yeah, I think, I think Goth is instrumental and very, and very good in this. You, the great Victor Frankenstein, you made a mistake.

41:20i created something truly horrible not something

41:31someone with that let's get into some spoiler territory i feel like i need to do it anyway to explain what ultimately held me back with this film and maybe that's the only reason why we need to get into it. I don't know if there's things you feel like you need to get off your chest, Josh. I feel a little bit like I fear anyway that maybe I've now set it up too much and I don't know if I can deliver because you're expecting me to make a case for why this film ultimately doesn't work. And it's not like you're going to agree with me anyway on this point, because it sounds like you're all in on this movie.

42:07Frankenstein's a winner for you. Are you negative? Are you going we negative on this this is a movie josh where based on the beginning of the film and maybe even the first half i was i was this is this is a movie i know i'm giving a very positive letterboxd rating to and as we sit at this moment i am a two and a half star rating all right i'm gonna get that i'm gonna get that half star from you though though actually i'm probably not because arguing with you is not the way to get the half star. If my case up to this point didn't make it, it's hopeless. Sure. Well, here it is. And this is the thing about the movie going experience is that we can even agree on things intellectually.

42:52But if we saw the same movie and by the end of it, we didn't have the same emotional experience, if narratively it didn't deliver, that's what I'm left with. And that's what I'm thinking about ultimately when I'm doing the superficial work of giving it that star rating. And so my big issue or the biggest thing holding me back, I said, I had that little asterisk where I'm thinking, and sure, maybe this is just me. Maybe I get too caught up a little bit on logistics where I'm thinking early on, wait a second, how does this Frankenstein story get all the way to the Arctic? How are we even here. Okay.

43:32That's in the back of my mind. And then as it's going along, I'm thinking that it's simplifying this, this Frankenstein. I don't know at this point about any of this stuff that's in the book and that it's way more complicated and that Frankenstein is, you know, murdering people left and right in the, in the text. I just know that on screen, I felt like it was, it was too simple and there wasn't enough of that push-pull for me to really feel like it delivered in a complicated way. Well, those two things collide at the exact moment where the creature tells Frankenstein, you're the monster, which follows, this is a point of departure, I understand from the book where it's Dr.

44:19Frankenstein who kills Elizabeth and blames the monster. But in the, in the book, isn't it the creature who actually does kill her out of, out of an act of vengeance because he's mad? He's mad at the doctor. The figure that she's kind of, yeah, the corollary for. Yeah. So this in the movie initiates Frankenstein's chase of the monster all the way to the Arctic. And even if you can get past the suspension of disbelief stuff, stop yourself from asking too many but wait how questions, which may or may not include how the genius Dr. Frankenstein somehow hasn't fully processed that the creature can't die.

45:05Not from any gunshots anyway. Yet he keeps buying bullets and guns and trying to shoot him. Even if you can get past that, I only feel, this goes back to my point, I only feel complete allegiance to the creature. And I have no investment in what's driving Frankenstein's pursuit. And just purely from a narrative standpoint, my lack of investment and that creeping suspension of disbelief, those issues, they stem from how briskly the movie needs to get us to the Arctic. And what I felt, Josh, I felt like it was rushing to that resolution after all that time. I know I said this, but after all that time, that great time, it spent the patience setting up the story within a story framing all the Danish men, the creature kills all the time we spend back in the past, young Victor with his mother and the tyrannical father, the, all the world building parts and the character building parts that I enjoyed.

46:00so much of the runtime is spent there. And then the conclusion to put it in, in Seinfeld terms, I think del Toro yada, yada is the ending. I felt like he yada, yada is the ending. Finally, we get these two stories, these two narratives, the two perspectives colliding. And that moment on the deathbed should be powerful. It should be, it should be powerful. And I didn't feel it. And I didn't feel it for all these reasons. reasons I mentioned that just were, were taking my investment in the story out of me. It, it, it sucked all the narrative energy from me. The, the more the film went on, I didn't buy any of the chase.

46:47I didn't buy any of the chase or how it tried to, to solve it in the end. Yeah. And I, I'm not going to be able to retroactively insert that emotional investment in the finale for you to your point. I'll say something heretical too, is I think Shelley's novel is not as expertly constructed in this way as maybe the reputation has. It's a difficult novel in terms of the change of perspectives, the level of letters you're subsumed in. It's the moral question at its heart and the fantastic vision at its heart that I think that has held it up, held up its reputation. And rightly so. I think it's brilliant for those things.

47:34But in terms of the plotting you're talking about and the narrative makes it one of the most difficult properties to adapt. And I don't know if that's why it's continually adapted, someone's waiting to crack it, or if it's because my instinct is it's more that vision is so alluring, right? The idea she had, the way she described it, the passion with which she gave the voices to her characters, all of that is to the novel's credit. But in terms of this structure and the narrative, it has always held me up when I revisit the novel and given me pause. So I don't think you're entirely wrong to react to the film adaptation in this way.

48:15But I did have a different experience with that emotional investment. And for me, I did not mind so much that I wasn't as invested in Victor Frankenstein because this movie had gotten me so invested in the creature. And so the question for me was less about Frankenstein's end and how the creature was going to respond to this life that had been given to him, the choices he was going to make. And in that sense, I found the ending quite powerful. And since we're doing spoilers here, the line for me was not so much that you are the monster, but again, a different choice Del Toro makes, Victor, I forgive you.

49:11I mean, this is something that's bringing us in a totally new direction, as is the choice for the creature to not leave the scene as he does in the book and set himself on fire. If my memory, or at least say he's going to do that, I think, my memory is a little fuzzy on that. But we essentially are to understand that he is no more at the end. Here, what does he do? He pushes the boat out of the ice, saves the remaining men's lives. And the last thing he does, Adam, is a romantic gesture. He looks up to the warmth of the sun. And I guess that is where I found my emotion was in that experience, that choice of the creature, that romantic expression, it's not a defense of how they handle Victor Frankenstein necessarily.

50:08I can still see why that might've left you wanting, but where I was and where my own heart lay with this creature's experience, it was pretty enrapturing actually. Yeah. And I do love those final moments. I love the touch of freeing the ship. I love that final glance and the warmth of the sun. Those really are nice. Obviously, I still think the movie thinks it's very important that father and son have that moment together and that moment of forgiveness and the fact that it didn't deliver because there wasn't enough of a complexity to their relationship. Yeah, it left me wanting, but I'm glad that it paid off for you.

50:57Josh, we agree certainly on Elordi and his performance in this film, and he will be in the running for me as well when we talk about the best performances of the year. Frankenstein is currently out in limited release and available exclusively on Netflix. If you've seen it and agree or disagree with our takes, you can email us feedback at filmspotting.net. We may share some of that feedback on a future show. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. With real-time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time.

51:37Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.com. Adam, I mentioned the Film Spotting family in our discussion there. How do you feel about thanking a film spotting family member here for a moment? Should we do that? I love it. Especially when it's international. Those are always fun. Yeah, that is great to see. And this is not only a film spotting family member, but Clara Del Olmo from Madrid, Spain is a family plus member. So that highest tier you can join as part of the film spotting family. If you're on Letterboxd, as Clara is, you can find her at CLZ SPN.

52:20Now, we always have a questionnaire that new members can fill out if they choose, and Clara did that, so we're going to share a little bit of that here. She wrote in saying, I needed something to keep me going through the endless treadmill slogs at the gym, so I went on a quest to find the ultimate film podcast. After a deep dive online, your show kept popping up like some kind of podcast holy grail. Figured, why not give it a shot? Turns out that was probably one of the best decisions I made in a while. I've been hooked since episode 681, Lord of the Rings 15th anniversary slash top five Lord of the Rings scenes.

52:56The real kicker? Finding out Adam hadn't seen the last two movies. I mean, what? I had to see what it was like to experience the epicness of LOTR through the fresh eyes of someone seeing them for the first time. Spoiler, it was hilarious and warm at the same time. I was laughing from minute one and just knew I'd found my perfect podcast match. Now, Clara just missed something here. She missed an opportunity because she talked about finding some kind of podcast Holy Grail, but then talks about the Lord of the Rings. She could have gone with some kind of Sauron thing. the ring that metaphor could have worked right josh instead of the holy grail that's true yeah i like this look at you schooling people on their lord of the rings references now that now that you're of a fan maybe my fantasy bona fides right i've heard them exactly clearly uh clearly clara has empathy for me or maybe it's just sympathy for me because when we asked a favorite review or segment she says i loved the a24 draft so much as i felt the pain from adam when mean old Josh, those are her words.

54:03I see it. I see it there. Mean old Josh took Lady Bird. Since then, I was very into the draft structure. Yeah. You might've been doing a little editorializing there in Claire's words, but you know what? This does remind me that we just did another draft for our Film Spotting Family bonus episode, our cruise draft. And yeah, family members might have that in their feet already. I think they do. I think I did you dirty and I did you dirty in that one too. Didn't I? Yeah. I don't want to spoil it, but there was a Tom Cruise pick that I thought I would get in round four or five and you did some homework apparently.

54:44And you, I mean, I'm glad you love this movie now as much as I do. I did not think you'd take it. It turns out though, that Zach in Chicago, you could call him mean old Zach because he took two of your choices that you wanted. He was ridiculous. I think we're in process of maybe banning him from the family, right? Isn't he maybe? We might have to. We're considering kicking him out for his behavior? Rescind. Yeah, if he wasn't such a nice guy, we would definitely do that. You know, and his money's green, so we'll still take it. But that was fun. Zach in Chicago was a fantastic family member to have that Tom Cruise draft with.

55:23It was the three of us plus Sam Van Halgren. I think Sam is the one who is currently winning the poll because family members get to choose who won the draft. Josh, do you have any idea who's in dead last in that draft? Wait a minute. Sam is winning the poll? Sam's winning the poll. Yes. Sam is. My memory was he torpedoed. Cocktails and dreams, baby. He torpedoed. Yeah. I kind of thought that too, but the more I looked at his picks, his first three are really solid. His first three are really solid and clearly they are carrying him to victory. Wow. So, okay. You, I'm astonished. You are not faring as well.

56:01You are not faring as well. Am I in last? Josh. You are in last currently. Okay. But that's fine. I gave this one up. Voting is early. So. You know, as I say in the draft, I took a particular approach that was just a me. It was a me first approach, not a voter first approach. So I'm glad to see that's panning out. You go with that. Yes. it was a fun draft. And if you're a family member, you get that bonus content every month. We love doing those drafts. So we hope you seek it out. We thank Clara for being a family plus member and for listening all those years. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your family membership comes with perks like those bonus shows, but also you get to listen early and add free.

56:41And when we say listen early, I mean, we don't want to disrupt your routine. If you're a Friday morning person or maybe a Monday morning person, but Sam and Joe with some help from Joe, of course, Sam's been knocking these shows out sometimes like Thursday morning. We're dropping them in your feed. I have noticed that. No kidding. They have been putting in the work and they're doing, as we said at the top of the show, there's video elements involved now, yet they're still managing to get these things out quite early for our family members. So that is, that's like a significant benefit for sure.

57:15It is. Yeah. The weekly newsletter, which you talked about in our review of Frankenstein. You also get to be part of the Film Spotting Family Discord, which is a blast. There's over 400 Film Spotting listeners, lots of channels there devoted to all sorts of subjects. You can learn more about joining the Film Spotting Family at filmspottingfamily.com. And we will remind you that another way you can help a show like ours, which, yes, we've been around a long time, but we are still an independently produced show. We depend on your support via things like membership, but also spreading the word. And you can do that by taking a minute to give us a review or rating us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

58:00It does help us reach new listeners.

58:19director nia da costa started her career with the indie thriller little woods in 2018 it starred Tessa Thompson. You were a fan, Josh. Also, you were a relative fan of her forays into franchise filmmaking, 2021's Candyman and 2023's The Marvels. She's back with Hedda, which she wrote and directed. Also back in the title role, Tessa Thompson. Hedda is DaCosta's adaptation of Hedda Gabler, the 1891 play by Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen about a bored newlywed whose former lover is competing with her new husband for a prized academic position. DaCosta updates the setting to 1950s England and makes the former lover a woman, played by the great German actress Nina Haas, who you may know from Tar and Christian Petzold's Phoenix.

59:09I said you were a fan of Little Woods and a relative fan of those other two films. If I'm not mistaken, you can tell me if I am. I I saw the exact same star rating for all three films. Three stars. Are you going to depart from that on Hedda? Is this a film that is going to maybe go up to number one on your DaCosta ranking, or is it right there with the others? Yeah, it's right there in that universe. I mean, this is just a good filmmaker doing interesting stuff reliably across a range of genres with a range of material. I don't know that we've seen the best of Nia DaCosta yet. I'm looking forward to that.

59:54Hedda is, you know, equally solid, I would say. I don't know. I think I did rank these, her films on Letterboxd. I think I might have still have Little Woods at the top. The performances there are just so good. And the imagery that DaCosta gives us in a familiar indie narrative, I would say, are incredibly strong. Had a, yeah, another good one. Another good one from Nia DaCosta. Now you described already the way she scrambles, you know, race, gender, and sexuality. Very interesting. A lot of implications to that. But what I found most compelling about her take on this, Adam, and I have not seen a production of this play, I'm not that familiar with the source material, so I don't know if this is in there at all, but Tessa Thompson's Hedda here is almost demon-possessed in her depiction, if not downright demonic.

1:00:46Now, we know that DaCosta has delved in horror with her Candyman remake, right? So maybe this shouldn't be shocking, but I noticed early on that the soundtrack has these drums that are almost like sacrificial type drums. There's this hissing or sighing that's very much used in horror films, these insinuating sighs, I would say. And then Hedda's manipulations here of everyone around her, they're framed like a tempter so much. She's promising sexual favors at one point. Another point, she's encouraging someone to drink deeply from bourbon, even though she knows it's going to be disastrous. There is an image, a great DaCosta image of a gun Hedda offers to a character.

1:01:33And we see it in this close-up of their hands, the gun-passing hands before a roaring fireplace. So all of this is just adding to this idea of Hedda as this almost possessed figure in the way she's manipulating people. Now, Thompson's performance, I'm sure it's going to get a ton of praise, maybe be considered one of the best of the year. I think she's good here. I think it's pretty focused on the deliciousness of this evil and playing up that part. You mentioned Nina Haas. That's the performance in this film for me as in part of the gender swapping. As you said, this rival professor to Hedda's husband, Hedda's former lover, man, she arrives at the party, at Hedda's party, like this goddess.

1:02:22And it's part of a musical moment. I'm not going to detail because it might be for our year-end wrap party where we do music moments of the year. It might be one of those for me, but she arrives at the party with this air and then Hedda chips away at it as the night goes on. And part of the, I guess, evil deliciousness of this movie is watching that fight between them, the back and forth. So I'm curious now that I've sat with this, had my impressions to see what others think especially those more familiar with both the Ibsen play and those who maybe have more nuanced thoughts about the race and sexuality and gender mixing that's going on here because yeah I'm sure there's a lot to dig into there as well so so how to yeah check it out I think um Tessa Thompson will probably be coming up maybe not necessarily on my list of best performances of the year but I bet a good number of other folks will have her there it is definitely one I will dig into before All of that end-of-year talk.

1:03:25Hedda's available exclusively on Prime Video. Hedda battled social conventions. Josh, boxer Christy Martin literally battled in the ring. Let's get to Christy. You must be the lady I've been hearing so much about. Yes, sir. It's an honor to meet you, Mr. King. Well, tell me about yourself. Jesse here says that you fight an old pink. I'm from West Virginia. What's that got to do with pink? Nothing, sir. I'm just telling you about myself. Pink was my idea. Christy is director David Michaud's biopic about Martin, a professional boxer in the 90s and into the 2000s. Sydney Sweeney plays Martin, whose career was plagued by abuse and drug addiction.

1:04:14Adam, I know that you've been teaching a course on sport and film. So you've been immersed in this subgenre of recent months. I guess that's where I'd like to start is just to hear where Christie falls among, you know, among the stratosphere of these sports films. Well, not only just sports films broadly, but most recently in the class, we talked about Million Dollar Baby. And we've been talking about the feminine archetypes in sports films. So very much thinking about female boxers on screens. And one of the things we talked about is the way, and there's a lot that's been written about this, but we've talked about how that film portends to be a fairly transgressive portrayal of a woman on screen because it's about a female boxer and it puts her at the forefront.

1:05:12But I don't think this is necessarily controversial for anyone who's seen the movie. You can get into the finer details about how this is the case, and there's a lot to dig into, but it's really the Clint Eastwood character's movie. And that undoes a lot of the potential transgressiveness of the film Million Dollar Baby. Here, it's Christie's movie, and you could say, well, does it ultimately in a way become a film that's just as much about her husband, played by Ben Foster? Or is her character defined just as much by him as the character in Million Dollar Baby, Maggie, is defined by Frankie Eastwood's character?

1:06:00And the answer might be, yeah, it's similar. The difference, though, is that Christy is the victim of abuse. She's the victim of domestic violence. This is a movie in which that's part of what the film is detailing. It's about a character who is dominated by her husband. And not only is Sweeney's performance very forceful, but Ben Foster, as Jim, is the type of character and he gives that type of performance the subtlety it needs where the first time he says to her just in the kitchen of their apartment at this point before she's really hit the big time and made any money, when he says to her, if you leave me, I'll kill you.

1:06:53he has enough sense as a performer and Mishad has enough subtlety as a director not to make that this grotesque moment not to underline it dramatically because that's just another moment to that character that's as matter of fact as him saying I'm gonna go wash the car and that's how the movie treats it and it becomes something that's a refrain that you know it's something he says to her hundreds of times over the course of their their lives the next decade or two decades that they spend together and we do hear him say it a few more times and it becomes more pointed and more violent but you understand that even though her character might be wrapped up in his character that's that's the essence of this film and like christy herself the movie's redemption comes in the second half when the boxer's focus turns to reclaiming her identity rather than winning in the ring.

1:08:03I've seen a few comments here and there that say the movie And some like the movie, Josh, but either way, some have commented on how much it does hit sports movie or boxing cliches. I think it goes against some of those cliches in the way I just mentioned. But I think what else is interesting about this film, and it goes back to the quote you heard just as we were coming out of the trailer, the idea that not only is Sidney Sweeney playing this character, this real-life character, Christy, but Christy, it turns out, as the movie portrays her, was always playing a character. She was playing this character wearing pink.

1:08:57She was playing this heteronormative character that she never was. She was portraying the character that America needed her to be, her husband needed her to be, demanded her to be, that her mother demanded her to be. And when the movie is focused on that, of course, the beginning of the film is going to follow some of the sports movie cliches because it's her pathway out of poverty. She's going to have those fight scenes. And that that feels very familiar. But especially in the second half of the film, some of those scenes and that reclaiming of her identity, those moments are chilling. And that ultimately was what made this movie worthwhile for me.

1:09:40And I'll say about David Mishad, some of us seeing his name attached to it, not that he's a director who I necessarily have seen all of his films and thought he's this tremendous auteur. But I remember quite liking Animal Kingdom, his debut film, and thinking, why is he doing this sports biopic movie? This doesn't seem like the kind of movie that he would do. And then, of course, as I am especially watching the second half of the film, I'm thinking this is the guy who made Animal Kingdom. This is the guy who made a film about families and family violence and treating family violence as if it's a matter of fact and an everyday occurrence.

1:10:25And also portrayed a mother character, Jackie Weaver in that movie, who will do anything she has to do to protect her family. In this movie, Merit Weaver plays Christy's mom, and she's a very different character. I don't think she's as interesting a character or giving as interesting a performance necessarily. But in her mind, she's doing everything she has to do to protect her family. The pain that she's inflicting on Christy is protecting her and protecting her as well and her family, projecting the image that she believes she has to project. project. So for me, there was a very clear through line from Animal Kingdom and some of Misha's other work through Christie.

1:11:16So ultimately, I do think Christie is worth seeing, especially as well, because you know, Sweeney is going to come up in discussion of best performances of the year. And I understand why. I don't know that she's going to necessarily make the cut for me, but it is a very good performance. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, because I'm, despite all the publicity she gets, I actually haven't seen a lot of her work on screen. I did watch. I haven't either. It was like a Netflix movie, Echo Valley, very small. There was no attention given to it. She's opposite Julianne Moore there. I mean, not the greatest movie, but she's incredibly good in it.

1:11:55So yeah, I was curious to hear how she was in something that, as you say, is definitely being set up for awards consideration. situation christy currently playing in wide release next week we are going to get to the latest from yorgos lanthimos and his his muse his star emma stone it is bugonia we will also talk about kelly reichert's the mastermind that's another one that i think i saw at least two weeks ago but josh you're finally going to get a chance to see it that one stars josh o 'connor so we're going to give it some time i've got a double i'm excited that you're going to get to see it double feature plan for the weekend, Adam.

1:12:32I hope I'm doing this right. I'm doing the mastermind first, Little Meal Break, then Begonia. So it seemed like the later night film to me, Begonia, but I don't know. I'll find out. Yeah, that might be fair. Then there are other films opening that we hope to see. The new one from Jafar Panahi, it was just an accident, and Lynn Ramsey's new film with Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson, that's Die My Love. So it very well could be that you will hear talk about all four of those films on next week's show. We just don't rest here on film spotting. We will also have results from the current deeply flawed film spotting poll asking you to choose the second best.

1:13:16Just a burning question everyone needed to know the answer to. What is the second best Robert Zemeckis movie? We're going to decide. We gave a sacred cow review to the director's first best Back to the Future on last week's show. So if you haven't voted yet, and if you haven't left a comment yet, you can do that at filmspotting.net. And if you would like to see what upcoming shows we have planned, you can go to filmspotting.net slash episodes. Exciting news, Adam. It's been a little while since we've had an official film spotting meetup. And I've been here in Scotland for a couple months. It's time I meet our UK friends.

1:13:53Not going to do the first one here in Scotland. I hope to do maybe one at some point there. But instead, I'm going to be down in London in December. And I thought, well, one thing I've got to do is put together a film spotting meetup. I did one back in 2017. And I don't know. We probably should never do this. Adam, I don't want to offend any of the meetups we've had over the years. But if I were to make a top five meetups, we've been doing this long enough now. London, 2017 London would be on it. That was such a blast. a great turnout. I heard it got a little crazy. Well, yeah, I would not repeat it.

1:14:30I would not repeat it at this age because we started at the BFI, you know, very respectable, nice table, everyone around the table talking somehow. I mean, memory is hazy at this point. We ended up at, I believe it was a Puerto Rican bar, not too far away, restaurant slash bar, continued the conversation there. And somehow, somehow I blame this on listeners. We ended up at a disco far into the night on the other side of the city, irresponsible parents. Debbie and I had the kids back in the Airbnb alone. We did not plan to be out that late. Needless to say, it was a lot of fun. So yeah, going back to London, not to recreate that, to be much more responsible, but still to hang out with film spotting listeners.

1:15:14Here's the date. I do have that now I can give to everyone. It's going to be Thursday, December 11. Location is still to be determined. I do know earlier that day, I'll be checking out. We got our tickets, the Wes Anderson exhibit at the Design Museum, which I think is just opening here in the UK. So I'm going to be checking that out earlier. And then that night, Thursday, December 11, hanging out with Film Spotting listeners. Stay tuned for those location details We'll probably send them out via The newsletter to FilmSpotting family members We'll put it in the show notes for everyone And yeah, I'll let you know as soon as that is nailed down You know, the gauntlet has been thrown now I can't let it stand that you're the obviously cooler host So the next meetup that I have, whenever that is It's going to be an all-timer It's going to be a rager Yes It might go on for days Okay someone's going to benefit from everything Josh just said and did.

1:16:16It's going to be crazy. Adam, we want you to survive it. So let's, let's not get carried away. Who's up for it. Let's see what happens. Okay. We do have another mention for our mastermind prize pack. We're partnering with MUBI on this. It features items from the film's fictional Framingham museum of art for a chance to win. All you have to do is send a note to feedback at filmspotting.net. The subject line should be mastermind prize. And in the body, all you have to do, you don't even need to provide any explanation, but we don't mind if you do, because we'll probably share it on next week's show.

1:16:54When we announced the winner, you just have to tell us your favorite Kelly Reichert character from any of Kelly Reichert's movies, your favorite Kelly Reichert character. We've gotten some good responses, Josh, so far, like Kurt, Will Oldham in Old Joy, Lily Gladstone, the rancher in Certain Women, King Lou. We love King Lou from First Cow as well. All you got to do, send that email, feedback at filmspotting.net. No votes yet for my pick, Emily, in Meek's cutoff? I mean, come on. Not yet, Josh, but that doesn't mean they won't come in. We'll see. quick note about our sister podcast the next picture show looking at cinemas present via its past they have a new pairing very exciting they're looking back at Fellini's eight and a half in order to pair it with Radu Jude's new film Dracula and Adam I would be over the moon about this Dracula first of all horror related you know I'm in Jude the director of last year's do not expect too much from the end of the world, which we both, I believe, had on our top 10 lists.

1:18:01Is that right? Yes, we did. The only thing holding me back, I've heard this is like at least three hours. Have you heard similar? That's the problem. So yeah, I have a link for it and I've had it for a few weeks. The problem is I think it's two hours and 59 minutes long. And as badly as I want to watch it, as badly as I need to see the new film from Radu Judah, there is just no way right now I can see a three hour film. So I'm going to have to book the time soon. It's just not going to be right now, Josh. Well, the next picture show folks are better critics than we are. So they are on top of it.

1:18:35If you want to get some talk about Dracula, you need to download these episodes, which you can do every Tuesday and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Time now for massacre theater, more proof that we're not the best film critics or film actors. This is where we perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last time we massacred this scene.

1:19:23That was Will Ferrell and Bruce McCullough in 1999's Dick, written by Cheryl Longin and Andrew Fleming. Fleming also directed. That massacre was part of our top five Robert Redford movies. It was a show we did a couple weeks ago. There is always a tie-in, so why that scene from Dick? Here is Glenn Eric Hamilton in Seattle. Glenn's first time answering a massacre theater challenge. As you said during the show, one tie-in is obvious, Woodward and Bernstein, Redford and Hoffman's characters in All the President's Men, or Will Ferrell and Bruce McCullough in Dick's bizarro recounting of Watergate.

1:19:58Beyond that, there are contrasts. Maybe the comedy journalist's lust for fame contrasted with Redford's real-life ambivalence about celebrity, or Redford's willingness to share the spotlight with co-stars versus Ferrell and McCullough constantly trying to cut one another out of the scoop. I'm really reaching. This movie is a favorite in our home. Everybody loves Dick. Like Looney Tunes educating me on movies from Hollywood's golden age, Dick is how our teenager understands Watergate. Thanks for such a fantastic tribute to Redford and congratulations on 20 years of excellence. Neither of you smell like cabbage.

1:20:33Writing into Salve Adam's wounded ego. Seriously, these segments give me a lot of joy and I don't write in more often only because I assume that everyone's saying that already. And I've assumed that the hat's been more full than advertised. Thank you, Glenn. See, it's working, Adam. Can I call it a wine campaign? It's getting more massacre theater entries. I also like Glenn's approach here. Have we seen this before where rather than going with connections, he's going with contrasts? I mean, this is opening up. The entries are going to come flooding in now. This is opening up a whole new avenue for massacre theater.

1:21:09Sure. All right. We also heard from Michael R. Hartman in Brooklyn, New York. The scene was from 1999's Hilarious Dick. The most obvious tie-in is it's a parody of All the President's Men, which was discussed endlessly in the Robert Redford Memorial as one of Redford's best movies not named, Three Days of the Condor. Possible secondary connections stretching here. Redford famously played Death in an episode of the original Twilight Zone, and a number of actors from Dick, Terry Garr, Harry Shearer, and Dan Hedaya appeared in the 1980s Twilight Zone reboot. don't remember this don't worry no one else does either uh michael could be making all of this up as far as i know no he's not because i think during our top five i referenced the fresh air conversation with redford that i caught parts of and yeah that was either his first tv appearance or one of them and they played a clip from it him playing death police please open the door I need help.

1:22:14You're lying to me. I know you. You can't call me. Help. The entire conceit of it, I believe, is that a woman is so afraid of dying, she's afraid death is going to come for her or whatever. She never opens her door or anything. And then somehow he convinces her to let him in her house or something. And, of course, he's actually the Grim Reaper. It isn't me you're afraid of. You understand me. What you're afraid of is the unknown.

1:22:53Don't. Don't be afraid. But I am afraid. The running's over. And that's him. Redford's playing Death. And it's an early episode of The Twilight Zone. It sounded fascinating. So I think it's available on YouTube. I could be wrong. Here's Sean Means from the Salt Lake Tribune. I went looking for other connections between Redford and the Dick cast, but didn't find much. Dan Hedaya, who played Nixon and Dick, did appear in a civil action for which Redford was a producer, but did not act. There is this, though. In 2014, Redford and Farrell collaborated on a humorous video as a fundraiser for the Colorado River Project.

1:23:29The Colorado River is one of the most loved and hardest working rivers in the world. But we've overused it. Most years, the river dries up even before it reaches the sea. Redford recorded a serious PSA encouraging an effort to raise the river by releasing more water into the Colorado. Then Farrell countered with his own PSA, urging instead that engineers move the ocean. It's a testament to Redford's environmental advocacy and his ability to laugh at himself. Hello there. Hello there. I'm William Farrell. Recently, we've been hearing some talk of a little problem in the Colorado River Delta. We got old Sundance riding around, trying to raise the Colorado River and restore its flow.

1:24:15And I say, do we really need more river? I mean, hell, we got plenty of ocean. Let's move it. Let's reconnect these things the old-fashioned way, the American way. Wow. Listeners are doing some Woodward and Bernstein-level digging here, some journalistic investigation to make these connections. Let's share one more. Uh, email we got from Chad Sanders. When Dick came out, I was baffled as to who this movie was made for besides me. Dunstan Williams might draw a young crowd, but it's doubtful they'd be interested in a Watergate movie with serious deep cut references to a 20 plus year old movie they'd never seen.

1:24:56Likewise, I felt that folks who lived through the Vietnam era probably weren't lining up for what the video box seems to promise is a teen comedy. It felt like I, a high school journalism teacher who screened All the President's Men twice a year for my intro students was the sweet spot for this movie's demographic. Not only did I catch every nod to All the President's Men, they knew I'd go bananas every time another Kids in the Hall or SNL alum would show up. Not to mention Inga from Young Frankenstein and Nick Tortelli. I can't imagine there are many people who've seen Dick as many times as I have and the number of people who've seen All the President's Men and Dick as many times as I have got to be just one.

1:25:33I know the massacre theater answer probably 25 % of the time, but I usually don't email you. This felt like a requirement to take the time to submit, even if it meant missing the field trip lunch to McDonald's to do it. This is a reference to the movie Dick, a scene which people who've only seen it seven times or so may not remember. Wow. So I don't, I don't mean to put you on the spot, Josh, but I find that often you don't get some of the pop culture references that I make or Sam makes, because I don't know. I think, I think your parents either had great taste and raised you properly, or, you know, you were just sheltered as a child.

1:26:11You can look at it either way, but Nick Tortelli, do you get that reference when Chad wrote it? I'm picturing Dan Hedaya, but maybe, maybe that's just, he's already been mentioned. Okay. Cheers. Cheers. Carlos husband on cheers. Nick Tortelli. There you go. Do you ever watch cheers? Great show. Every week we watch cheers. Well, you were right. See, it was in your brain. It was back there in the subconscious. Okay. Thank goodness. Reach into the Film Spotting hat and pick out this week's winner. Our winner is Matt Price from Pittsburgh. Congratulations, Matt. Email feedback at filmspotting.net, and we will set you up with your very own Film Spotting t-shirt, Film Spotting tote, or trial membership to the Film Spotting family.

1:26:54The sound goes through the cable to the box. A man records it on a big record in wax. But you have to talk into the mic first in the bush. We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre Theater. And Josh, we like to joke about all the preparation we put in to these little renditions that we do. And this time you get to do even less than normal. Is that right? We have some technical difficulties. Yes, a peek behind the curtain. And usually our preparation involves just before performing Massacre Theater, watching the scene that Sam in most cases has chosen for Massacre Theater. I'm, as I've said, in Scotland, I normally don't have an issue with this.

1:27:42But right now I'm being told that I can't watch the scene because I'm in the wrong country on a certain streaming service. So I'm going in pretty much blind. We do know there's one, let's just say, key performance to this scene. And because you've been able to watch it, it falls to you to carry the scene. I'm going to do my best in the secondary performance. And it is a secondary performance. There's definitely a straight man in this scene. And you're going to play that role. And I am going to do my best with the other role. Lord help you. I guess I'm ready if you are And I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth, Josh Hopefully at least the words on the script Here we go And Hopefully Action Did I do something wrong?

1:28:35No Then why'd you just go cold on me? I don't know what you mean What'd you see? I didn't see anything You're lying No, I'm not Yes You are I know because I feel things very deeply. Look, I gotta get back to work, alright? I'll see you later. When? What? When will I see you? I don't know. Ruby, it's just an expression. You're not gonna take me to Europe, are you? Tell me the truth. What did I do wrong? Nothing. Calm. No! Why are you leaving me if I didn't do nothing wrong? I don't understand. I thought you liked me. I do like you. I just... Tell me the truth. Why are you leaving? Why are you leaving me?

1:29:22What'd you see? Why'd you change? You're scaring me, Ruby. And scene. Wow. I don't know if that was intense enough. Fate was with us, Adam. The scene, technical difficulties, it fell to you and you gave one of your all-time massacre theater performances. Congratulations. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. It's up there. I'm sorry that people get to watch that, too, on the video. We did change. We did change the name to try to make it a little more difficult. So, no, Ruby is not the character's name in the scene. We look forward to reading all of the entries. Hopefully, we'll have a brimming hat. We think you can come up with the tie-in to this week's show.

1:30:13If you know what film we just massacred, email the movie's title and your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net. The deadline is Monday, November 17th. We will select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks. I say, is Allen Ginsberg there? And he says, who's calling? And I say, it's Peter Hujar. I'm supposed to photograph you with the Times.

1:30:37Peter Hujar's day is the latest from director Ira Sachs. He made 2023's Passages and 2014's Love is Strange. This is an adaptation of sorts. It's based on a 1974 audio taped interview between writer Linda Rosencrantz and photographer Peter Hujar. Rosencrantz is played by Rebecca Hall in the movie, Hujar by Ben Whishaw. Those are two names, Adam, that I think makes both of our ears perk up when we see they've been cast in a movie. So I'm assuming they make this worth watching. Is there more to this than something that's centrally focused on the actors? There's more, but there's certainly a big reason why you should see it.

1:31:22Calling it a two-hander is a little bit of a misnomer because Hall's Rosencrantz is placed mostly into the role of listener, but very active listener who does sprinkle in questions. And I'll get into this more and more praise. I will have more praise for Hall and how her character is conceived. But I will also note that Wishaw Hall's chemistry, but really Hujar and Rosencrantz's chemistry is an essential element of the film. It is Wishaw, though, who carries the movie in terms of the dialogue and has such an interesting challenge because, yes, it was audio tape conversations. But my understanding is that the audio tapes never actually surfaced.

1:32:09What was found were just transcripts of these conversations. So Wishaw and Sachs are recreating conversations just based on words on a page. So the level of naturalism that Wishaw has to convey is greater than your typical script. And he does it with such casual acuity. It really is a wonderful performance. And you have to keep in mind that Rosencrantz's project was mundane by design. I equate it to this. I teach a podcasting class most semesters, and the heart of the episode is having the students produce a pilot episode, and they have to do an interview. And every semester, it never fails, I have one or two students who propose interviewing a student athlete.

1:33:04And the topic is, I want to talk to a student athlete about what their everyday routine is like. And when they're pitching those podcasts, I, or when students are pitching, I always suggest to them that they have to know what their big question is. What's the underlying question that you're asking every guest? Imagine that you're, you're doing the show for the next 10 years. You're doing 200 episodes, whatever it is, every guest you'll ever have on the show, whether you actually ever verbalize this question or not. it's the inexhaustible question that justifies your podcast what is that big question and the problem is the first couple of times students did these interviews as i feared there wasn't really a big question to explore the interviews were just like journal entries without any introspection it was like i woke up at 6 a.m had breakfast went to practice i had class at 8 30 and and so on and that these athletes had lunch at Chipotle was just never compelling to me as a listener.

1:34:07And Rosencrantz wants her subjects to do exactly that. Just reflect on, really just chronicle first, chronicle what they did that day and see where it takes them. So right away as the movie's beginning and I begin to see that, I'm thinking, why? What's the big question? What's the big question Rosencrantz wants to investigate? And by extension, then what is Sachs investigating? Will one or more big questions emerge? And at one point, the characters do, Josh, address it themselves. When Hujar acknowledges that he's shocked at how much he has talked about just the first few hours of his day since he woke up, he he realizes that until he was actually forced to document it, he kind of just assumed that what he did every day was really innocuous and disposable, that nothing really happened.

1:35:06And he says, isn't that interesting? And she says, it really is. He says, because as soon as I started, it's like a whole novel already. And she says, that's why I'm doing it. So it's almost like the aphorism, the unexamined life is not worth living. But what the movie proposes is it's more like life is worthy when examined is how I would sort of turn it around. And other interesting insights emerge. He talks about being disappointed with pictures he had taken that day of Allen Ginsberg for the New York Times. It's an assignment, a photo shoot when he looked at them. And there's this meta layer because he discusses how that matches what the film is doing, right?

1:35:50Where he talks about how you only see qualities in the photos, positive and negative, when the photo is actually printed and you're studying it. you see things then that you weren't aware of when you actually staged it and took the shot. And so then I started thinking about Rosencrantz and I started thinking about the way she's looking at him and the way that she adores him, it seems, and the precision almost with which she's listening to him. And she does kind of become an equal to Hujar in terms of the way she fills the space and And the way Saks has her fill the space, even though she's not filling it with words and the way sometimes there's a real tenderness between them.

1:36:34And they will show affection for each other. And they'll talk sometimes laying on a bed and have real intimacy with each other. And like with his pictures, he says at one point that he thinks women take better pictures than men do. And so then I'm thinking, is she getting better audio from him because she's a woman? or is it because they're already so comfortable with each other or is it or is it both and so what you realize or what i realized anyway watching it is that peter hujar's day doesn't ask big questions it creates an ephemeral meditative space that invites them it turns the quiet observation into introspection and it it kind of reveals how meaning can emerge from memory and just paying attention to details and also also art i think i i think it it lies in sax's conception of this whole project as well because he makes you question everything that you're that you're seeing.

1:37:41Sometimes Linda changes within a scene, Josh. It's really interesting. Her costume will change within a conversation. Not only will they change positions, but her costume will change. Her hair might change. The composition will go from something very naturalistic to something that is more artistically framed. The opening and the closing of the film draw attention to the mechanism of filming. Like at the beginning, Wishaw, if I remember correctly, is getting into an elevator. I think you see the sticks as if you know that filming on this project has begun. So it's asking these questions like, how do we process and create meaning out of our lives?

1:38:24How do we use art to create meaning? How do we use cameras? How do we use frames? That's the intersection of what Sachs is doing and what Hujar was doing and what Rosencrantz was doing. So watching the film, I was left thinking about what I was also, here's the questions, right? I was thinking about what I tell my students and either they're not Linda Rosencrantz or their interviewees aren't Peter Hujar or athletes aren't as interesting as artists, or maybe I'm just wrong and I should let my students engage in this process more often, Josh. Well, we'll leave that to your teacher evaluations, Adam.

1:39:06I'm not going to answer that, but Peter Hujar's days. Sounds fascinating. A lot of layers at work. This one is currently playing in limited release. And Adam, that means after touching on four movies, I think, we are at the end of our show. If you'd like to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube. He's at FilmSpotting. I'm at all those places as well as Larson on Film. FilmSpotting is independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the FilmSpotting family at FilmSpottingFamily.com. That way you can listen early and ad-free.

1:39:54You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive. For show t-shirts and other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop. In that film spotting archive, you can find those seven del Toro reviews that I referenced in our Frankenstein setup. Pinocchio, episode 901. Nightmare Alley, 853. The Shape of Water, 659. Crimson Peak, 560. That's the one of the seven that you did solo, Josh. I still haven't seen it. One of my four blind spots, Pacific Rim, 453, Hellboy 2, 218, and Pan's Labyrinth, 145. Hellboy 2 is funny because I had written my entire intro two or three days ago, and then I just saw this document that Sam put together with these notes in it earlier today, and And I had to go and rewrite part of my intro because I thought I had five blind spots.

1:40:54I was sure I had five blind spots and that Hellboy 2 had not been reviewed on the show. There were only six movies that had been reviewed on the show. And then I did a search of my Google files and guess what? I've seen Hellboy 2. We reviewed Hellboy 2. I liked Hellboy 2. Sometimes you learn new things from your own show. it didn't it didn't stick in your imagination though that that much huh it did not apparently out wide you can see christy you can also see lynn ramsey's die my love russell crowe as herman goering in nuremberg we haven't talked about that i don't know that we'll get to review it i am curious i want to see it i'm a little bit curious about dan trachtenberg directing predator badlands with l fanning but next week we do have other films that we are more curious about like begonia Kelly Reichert's The Mastermind and Jafar Panahi's It Was Only an Accident but Die My Love is also on the docket so hopefully four more movies to hear us discuss Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Deseau and Sam Van Halgren without Sam and Golden Joe this show wouldn't go our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago more information is available at WBEZ.org For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

1:42:14And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:42:37Film Spotting is listener supported. Join the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com and get access to ad-free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and for the first time, all in one place, the entire Film Spotting archive going back to 2005. That's filmspottingfamily.com.