Introducing : Cultivating H.E.R. Space Podcast | We Ride at Dawn: Ways We Show Up for Our Sisters with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford | Network Drop

19:32Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And so I think it is important to remember, like, if I saw this person in real life and they had this outfit on, would I go up to her and say, I wouldn't have worn those shoes with that outfit? Like, most of us probably.

19:42Terri:Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13 ,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026, and over 4 ,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screened. At LabCorp, we're here to support those conversations and prevention. Visit our women's health page on LabCorp.com. What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. With 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and 45 calories, Sky Pop Protein Soda offers four delicious flavors with big taste and real benefits.

20:29Terri:Light, refreshing, and ready for wherever your day takes you. It's anytime protein that helps you reach higher. Sky Pop Protein Soda. Reach for the sky. Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target, Walmart, or Kroger. And now, another appliance triumph from your friends at Grand Appliance. Meet Jan. Her fridge died days before a dinner party, but she didn't panic. I just called my guy at Grand Appliance. He recommended a large capacity GE profile option with fingerprint resistant stainless steel and a convertible middle drawer. I can optimize for meat, beverages, snacks or wine. Best of all, it was in stock and they delivered next day.

21:09Terri:Another crisis averted by Grand Appliance. Shop GrandAppliance.com to learn more. Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the audible and iHeart audiobook club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary. Massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent?

21:48Terri:And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

22:19Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:wouldn't. But online, for some reason, we feel like we can say these things to other people as if these are not actual people with like feelings and emotions. And so to your point, Dr. Dom, I think if you don't feel like this is some critique that this person will listen to because you don't actually have a relationship, you should probably just write it in your journal as opposed to try to leave it in the comments. I love that.

22:44Dr. Dom:Dr. Joy over here preaching, y 'all. But let me just say, it's the introspection for me. OK, it's like, let me check in with myself before I just go project and give this feedback that may not be warranted. So I love that. And then the ways that you describe the online experience, I think that was just so beautiful and so on point because it often does feel flat. And like you said, there are a lot of times people, what do they call them, Twitter fingers and stuff like that? They're not going to say the stuff that they say online in person most of the time. Right. But it gives you instead of a liquid courage, I guess we need another name for the social media.

23:14Dr. Dom:That's the courage or something. Digital courage. Right. Like it gives you this. OK, so, Dr. Joy, this conversation is just getting started, but we want to shift up the energy a little bit. I don't think we had this segment when you came on last time, if I'm not mistaken. So we want to switch it up a little bit. And because we recognize, appreciate and celebrate the multifaceted woman and we believe that it's OK to be bougie, classy and ratchet. you can dance to strip club music and still be elegant so we want to invite you to the oh you blatch it segment do you take on the challenge i accept okay now that you you've agreed we're going to tell you what to expect so we're going to ask you three questions we're going to share three sentence completions and then we have three photos of you pulled up that we found on social your facial expression hold up let me see the boundary let me see the boundary so dr joe we want you to choose a number out of one and three and then we'll share that particular photo and then we want you to describe the photo for folks that are only tuning into the audio and then give us some context about the photo that we wouldn't know just by looking at it so we're gonna dive on in we're gonna ease into the we're gonna ease into this segment so the first question we have for you Dr.

24:34Dr. Dom:Joy is what's the best piece of wisdom or advice you've ever received

24:40Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:oh I think the best piece of wisdom I've received was from a business coach Maya Elias I worked with very early in developing therapy for black girls and she shared something about there's often a message that comes through you that is not for you and so whenever I am feeling anxious or stuck in my head and like, oh, how are people going to receive this? Should I do this? Should I do that? I pull myself out of it by understanding that there's something that there's a reason why I'm feeling drawn to delivering some piece of content, some message, and it is typically for somebody else. And so I offer that to people because it's one of my favorite things that anyone has ever told me.

25:15Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And I live by that.

25:16Terri:I'm all mighty with the word. I love that. Yes. Okay. Now that was all deep and so wise. And this next question is so not that, right? Okay. We contain multitudes. It's okay. Exactly. Exactly. Our next question, Dr. Joy, are you going to twerk or two-step?

25:46Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Ooh, that kind of depends on the location. So if, you know, something, if the beat from the nine nine and the two thousands drops then we have entered twerk territory but if we just you know doing a little bit Frankie Beverly and Mays and like that kind of thing then that requires

26:03Dr. Dom:that you still yes good answer you got the vibes yes Dr. Joy Dr. Joy passed the vibe check y 'all Dr. Joy passed the vibe check so our last question for this segment Dr. Joy is you ready for this okay what's the sexiest item you own

26:24Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I have some leopard boots that I pull out every now and then like with different outfits and I feel like they are pretty sexy what kind of boots? what they look like? they booties? are they high? they're booties they're booties because I got wide caps and I can't always find boots that go that far so I typically stick with boots

26:40Terri:we like it yes it could give an outfit just that extra that it needs I see what you're doing there I see the vision okay okay And so now we're going to move to our sentence completion. Our first sentence is one question or topic I wish people asked me about more often is. Oh, jealousy and friendships.

27:09Dr. Dom:Oh, OK, hold up. We're about to change the whole episode topic. It just go. That's a good one. OK, Dr. Joy, you're not going to believe this. But our next sentence completion is what I would tell you all about jealousy and friendship is.

27:23Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:What I would tell you all is that jealousy is an emotion just like any other. And there's no need to feel ashamed by it.

27:33Dr. Dom:Powerful. Thank you for that word. OK.

27:37Terri:I feel like we need a whole episode on on that topic alone. But our final sentence completion, what I love most about myself is my intuitiveness.

27:53Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I feel like that has served me very well, both personally and professionally.

27:58Dr. Dom:Amen to that. Come on, discernment. Come on, gut feeling instinct. We appreciate you. Okay, so Dr. Joy, we got these pictures pulled up and they are cute. I'm so excited. I wish we could cover them all. I really do. But if you can choose a number out of one in three, maybe we'll show you them all. Choose it about a one in three and then we'll reveal the photo. If you can describe the photo and then give us some context that we wouldn't know by looking at the photo. What number would you like to choose?

28:26Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I'm going to choose two.

28:29Dr. Dom:This is cute. I think you're going to like it. Let's see. I'm going to go ahead and put it on the big screen so you can see it Dr. Joy and just let me know once you can see it. Oh it was one of my favorite pictures.

28:46Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I loved it. So you asked for context that you wouldn't

28:51Dr. Dom:know by seeing the picture? Well for the people who are listening if you could just describe the picture first and then we'll get into like some context that we wouldn't know by looking at it.

28:59Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Got it. So the pictures of myself and Dr. Ki Hallman, who is one of my newest, closest friends, and we are doing a conversation for an event that she kind of spearheaded called the Will to Be Well here in Atlanta. And it was an opportunity for us to talk about like women entrepreneurs and how we can really focus on our wellness.

29:21Dr. Dom:perfect and then any context about this because you look like I can only imagine what you're talking about right now but the laugh the look on your face like a genuine laugh what's the context that we don't know by looking at this oh I don't even know what we were talking about but

29:34Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:one the reason why I love this is this this is how Dr. Ki and I often are like she is one of those people that I feel so in the book I talk about like you have not met all the people who will love you yet and I feel like she brings that to life for me so much because like I said she is like my newest clothes friend. And so this is often how we are, like very deep belly laughs and like just kiki and about whatever. I'm trying to think of any context. I think if I could say something, I think I remember like this dress, though I love the color. This slit was higher than I expected and I didn't know the stage set up.

30:09Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And so I don't know that I would have worn this dress if I had known I would have been facing forward to the crowd with a front slit. girl that is a good that slit is slitting okay the slit is slim but you look fly okay

30:23Terri:give it dr joy the whole outfit i love the outfit thank you thank you well thank you for playing

30:30Dr. Dom:alone we have a moment in this segment we're gonna hop back into some questions and honestly i feel like i just want to segue right into do you have any stories that you can share or it could be hypothetical, maybe something from pop culture, a story around jealousy and friendship and how one can cope. And I'm thinking about, maybe I'm kind of leaving, I'm thinking about a perspective or a situation where like a friend, because we hear about this often, Dom and I, where a friend has maybe achieved something that the other friend is also trying to achieve in their life. But how do you like grapple with that when it comes to the jealousy or envy within that friendship.

31:07Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:This is so perfect. And I have the perfect example. And I feel like so timely because I just saw this episode of Girlfriends yesterday or the day before. So Girlfriends, and I write about this in the book because y 'all know I love pop culture moments. The whole experience of Tony from Girlfriends getting engaged before Joan from Girlfriends. And we know like Joan's story or kind of throughout much of that show was like her desire to be married with kids. and this happened for her best friend before it happened for her. And so in real life, I think that this also happens, right? Like this idea that like maybe multiple people in the circle desire to be partnered or whatever.

31:48Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And, you know, time-wise, it's going to happen most often for somebody first. And what happens when you also desire this thing and it has not happened for you yet? And so I think in the show, we saw she did not handle that well. She threw herself into kind of like training for this marathon on. You know, she had a breakup with her own partner during the shower and had him come up, come to pick up the box of his leftover stuff that was left at our house on the day of Tony's like wedding shower. So I often talk about the fact that when we do not deal with things, things will deal with us. And they pop up in all of these ways that are often very disruptive to our relationships and our friendships.

32:27Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And so we saw there was a complete breakdown between Tony and Joan because there was not a space where Joan could actually like admit until the wedding day that she was really jealous of the fact that Tony was getting this experience. And I think it's important to, you know, we talk about this all the time, like being able to hold space for two things to be true at the same time. So you can be really happy that your best friend is getting engaged and also really sad that this thing has not happened for you. And I think what often happens is that we try to be like Joan, where we kind of go through the motions and like, oh, yeah, I'll be a maid of honor.

33:00Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I'll do these things. But we really are unsettled with the fact that this thing has happened and we don't give voice to it. And so I think it's really important to be able to cultivate space in our friendships to have some of these more prickly conversations, right? Because this exists too. And so can you go to your friend and say, hey, I'm really, really happy for you. And I want to be able to show up for you. And I also am having a really hard time because I really want this thing to happen for me too. And I'm sad that it hasn't, right? Right. And so can you offer that as a friend? And can you also hear that as a friend?

33:32Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Right. Because I think a lot of us would also get into a space of feeling very defensive of like, oh, she's trying to ruin my wedding and, you know, all of these things. And that's not the case at all. The truth of the matter is that you can also hold space for this to be true for her. And so how can you all work together to be able to navigate a prickly kind of area in your friendship? And often what happens is that on the other side of navigating this very difficult situation, the relationship is much closer because you've been able to work through this thing that was kind of hard. And so I'd encourage people to just be able to make space in your friendships for having some of these more difficult conversations.

34:09Terri:oh yes that that's real that's real that what i appreciate about what you shared is that it's about the both and on both sides because i think that sometimes it's the onus tends to get put on the person who's feeling both feeling yeah to navigate it by themselves and i think it is important for the other person to be able to sit with it and navigate too. And that, because that's part of what the sisterhood is, right? Exactly.

34:41Dr. Dom:Exactly.

34:41Terri:And so when we think about the trials and tribulations, the ebbs and flows of friendships, what advice would you have for folks who are trying to come out of these prickly conversations? And maybe the conversation didn't go as well as they hoped it would.

35:06Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Yeah, I mean, and that's real, right? Like as much as we practice conversations in our head, we know that they don't always turn out, you know, beautifully in real life. But I think that there are opportunities to revisit conversations, right? So even if we had this conversation on a Tuesday, maybe a month later, we revisit it and say like, hey, I'm left with some feeling of not so easy about what we talked about, right? Like, so I think it is just about kind of giving enough time to like continue to visit conversations and to understand like that may not be easy for somebody to hear. So you can't expect that the person will immediately, you know, like jump into like, oh girl, no problem kind of thing, right?

35:44Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Like it's okay for you to take some time to be able to kind of digest what was said and to figure out how you all can move forward in your friendship. I also encourage people to think about like the timing of conversations like this, right? So while there may never be a perfect time, like the night that she gets engaged is probably not the time, right? So let people kind of have their moment, you know, and revisit it on some random like Thursday lunch date, as opposed to like the night that she gets engaged. Because I think, of course, you are more likely to get like a more positive response if you are not, you know, kind of encroaching on a moment that is very important for her.

36:24Dr. Dom:Such a great point. Timing is everything when it comes to those prickly, I like that prickly conversations. And then Dr. Joy, speaking of sisterhood, can you talk to us about, or can you describe some of your cherished or the cherished characteristics you have in your personal sisterhood? And what are some of the favorite traits about your friends?

36:43Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Ooh, I think that where the places where I can be like the most silly are the places I cherish. Like, I feel like, you know, my work kind of requires me to show up in like a whole space for other people. And, you know, sometimes that's kind of being silly, but not most of it. And so I really value my sisterhoods where I like don't have to kind of be on one where I can just kind of, you know, be listening to random rep from New Orleans and, you know, keying about our kids and like doing those kinds of things. I really appreciate spaces that allow me to be authentic.

37:14Terri:That authenticity is is so important. And so when you think about sisterhood in general, right, and all of the joys that can come from that. What is it about Black women specifically and the way we create sisterhood that is so special or magical? cool.

37:44Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I think some of what we kind of touched on in the beginning, like I think because of our history in this world, there is something that connects us just by our lineage, right? Like the fact that we are in this conversation together today means that people far down the line have to traverse some tremendous challenges for us to even be here. And so I think there is something energetically and like ancestrally that connects us that can happen for other people because they don't have this same shared history. But I think that there's just something so powerful about the way Black women show up for one another.

38:19Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And it's not even a thought. Like it feels like it is this socialization and like just, you know, maybe watching your mom and your aunties and your grandmas like do these things. Like, you know, like if a sister is struggling with her baby in the airport, like it is automatic for me to kind of reach into my bag to see if I got some fruit snacks from the kids that I can like offer to the baby to kind of, you know, help to kind of take the load off Or, you know, if you see a sister like in front of you and like, you know, the card is declined in Walmart or something like that, like, oh, can I pay that for you?

38:49Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:You know, like it just feels like we kind of instinctually a lot of times kind of show up for one another in that way. And I think that so much of that is like nothing that you can teach. It is something that you just have to kind of live and kind of continue to pass on. And so again, you know, that's why I think it was really hard, though, like a good process, but a hard process to give language to these things that it feels like, you know, like, how do we know to do these things? I mean, I think there is something really just powerful about the ways we show up with one another.

39:20Dr. Dom:That's such a good point. And I feel like what amazes me is how you can see people from, you know, the diaspora who are in different locations. But we have it's like, how did we all get up the same? You know, there are those certain instances. I think about how my grand, and this is a little random, but I feel like my grandmother used to have that little cookie jar where she would put like her sewing stuff in it. But what were those like - The blue tin. The blue tin, yes. I'm like, how did we all, or, you know, just different sayings. It's just so interesting how we're just, we just lit, okay?

39:48Dr. Dom:It's nice over here being a black woman. I'm just saying, you know. So Dr. Joy, we're about to hop all around with this interview because I am so curious about, one, what has happened in your life since 2019, since we last chatted? And I want to know like, what are you most excited for when it comes to your brand and your impact? Because I know that you're just, it feels like you're just getting started, even though you've achieved so much. So what's happened since 2019? And then what are you most excited for?

40:13Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Ooh, 2019. I feel like such an interesting time marker because we've had a whole pandemic, right? It just feels like, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. The whole world was uprooted. And so it feels very hard, I think, sometimes to even ground myself in time because that whole like two to three year time span feels so like weird. I don't know if I talked about this on the podcast before, but I have two sons and they are now seven and ten. But at the time they were what, seven and four or three. And so that meant homeschooling for my husband and I, you know, so like trying to do that.

40:51Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And also because we also know how mental health took off in the pandemic. Right. So I'm trying to like be on a Zoom call to do a presentation for some company about like how to navigate mental health. during the pandemic and my, you know, seven-year-old is trying to do math on the computer and I'm trying to like manage all of these things. And so, you know, I feel like I am just now getting to a process where I'm kind of setting like values for me and kind of like, okay, what kinds of things feel important for me to do both as a professional, but also as a wife and a mom.

41:21Terri:Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13 ,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026 and over 4 ,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screened. At LabCorp, we're here to support those conversations and prevention. Visit our women's health page on LabCorp.com. What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. With 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and 45 calories, Sky Pop Protein Soda offers four delicious flavors with big taste and real benefits.

42:08Terri:Light, refreshing, and ready for wherever your day takes you. It's anytime protein that helps you reach higher. Sky Pop Protein Soda. Reach for the sky. Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target, Walmart, or Kroger. And now, another appliance triumph from your friends at Grand Appliance. Meet Chad. With the laundry piled high, Chad's washer died days before a two-week vacation with his family of five. But Chad didn't panic. I just called Grand Appliance. They recommended a large-capacity Samsung option with a super-speed wash mode that washed everything in no time. Best of all, it was in stock, and they delivered it next day.

42:47Terri:Another crisis averted by Grand Appliance. Shop GrandAppliance.com to learn more. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary, massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science, and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent?

43:27Terri:And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

43:58Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Boys who are growing very quickly. You know, so I think in terms of what is next for me, I really want to have more in-person experiences. So I loved, although I was very tired by the end, but I loved going on tour this past summer for Sisterhood Heels to kind of talk about the book and, you know, have some of these conversations and I would like to be able to do some version of that in the future now that the book has been in the world. And so I would like to kind of have an opportunity to talk to people now that they've had a chance to read it and like to really kind of workshop and get into the nitty gritty of like what happens in Black women's relationships.

44:33Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So I think you can be on the lookout for some in real life kinds of experiences. And I also really want to do some retreats because I feel like sisterhood kind of naturally gives its way to like, okay, can we all go together somewhere and like have fun and but also have some very intimate conversations. So I think I'm very excited about moving into that kind of phase of the business of more in real life experiences.

44:58Terri:Yes, okay, outside we're here for it. Yes, yes, retreats. Oh, yeah, all things that will bring the sisterhood together. Yes. And so how do you, with thinking about all the things that you want to do and what you currently have going on and so navigating your career, navigating having a husband and two sons, how do you make time for sisterhood? Because I know a lot of women are trying to figure out, like, how do I balance? it.

45:38Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Yeah, I think like a lot of people, if it is not on my calendar, it does not happen. So I try to be very intentional about like putting things on my calendar, you know, with some of my closest friends, like two of my closest friends also graduated from Xavier with me. And so we make it a point to do homecoming every year. They also live in Atlanta and also are the moms of sons. And so we kind of get together, you know, pretty frequently to kind of do sports stuff with the kids. We had a Super Bowl party, you know, so we try to like put it on our calendars to kind of make it a point to be intentional about spending time with one another.

46:11Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:But I also love like random catch ups like Dr. Key, who I talked about and was in that picture earlier, travels quite a bit for her work. But every now and then, like she will be in town for a random Friday, we'll go get tacos. Oh, you know, so I love those kind of random happenstance kinds of things, too. But I think, again, because many of us are so busy, it is really important to make sure that you are putting things on your calendar months ahead of time, even years ahead of time, so that you are protecting

46:36Dr. Dom:that time with your girls. Amen to that. And I'm with you. If it's not on the calendar, it ain't going to happen. It doesn't exist. Like we got to, yes, put stuff on the calendar. Now, we have many of our listeners who have said that, you know, these podcasts, right, that we have or just podcasts out there for Black women, that's kind of their connection to sisterhood because of where they might live or their dynamics in their environment. Do you have any advice for women who are looking to build that sisterhood like coalition in their lives, like any insight on what they can do to establish that?

47:10Yeah.

47:11Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So, I mean, we talked about digital spaces a little earlier and some of the, you know, difficulties of existing, but I think they can also be some incredibly beautiful and powerful spaces. I mean, you know, like lots of people have met very important and significant people to them and they've not ever actually met in person. They've only ever connected digitally. And so I think it's important not to kind of move quickly past like the benefit of digital spaces. So we have our sister circle community and therapy for Black Girls. I know lots of other podcasts and organizations have some like membership community where you can actually connect with other sisters across the world.

47:44Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So I think looking into those options, if it is difficult for you in real life, but I think for a lot of people who don't necessarily live in places where like there are not a lot of Black women, I think for a lot of us, we can just look in the background of our lives because I think for a lot of us, there are people in our lives that we maybe kind of casually see. So like the mom who is UC all the time in carpool, or another sister that you see in Pilates class, right? Like y 'all may exchange small pleasantries, but it kind of stops there. Is there an opportunity for you to take those relationships a little further?

48:16Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So could you say like, hey, would you like to grab a smoothie after Pilates or something like that? Just to see if there is a continuing connection that can be made there. Now, I like to tell people, you gotta be realistic with your expectation, right? Because this might be a new best friend or it might've just been a great smoothie and y 'all had a good kiki, right? And so don't go into it thinking like, okay, this is going to be my new best friend forever, because then you get really wonky, I think, in terms of like being really stressed out and putting too much on it. But just naturally getting to know people to see if there is a connection beyond, you know, just seeing them in the carpool line.

48:51Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And so with a little bit of effort, some of the people in the background of our lives could maybe move to the foreground. But we got to be willing to face rejection, which I think is difficult for a lot of us, right? Like the idea that this person might not be interested in grabbing a smoothie or we go for the smoothie and I don't really like her. You know, like you got to be willing to kind of put yourself out there because that's the only way that you're going to be able to make some of these new connections.

49:15Terri:I appreciate those tips because I think when I look at the last few years and with everybody being inside and not necessarily really having the opportunity to connect in real life with other people, I think it is hard. And even those of us who came up before the digital age, it can still be hard for us to initiate that. Let's let's go grab that smoothie after Pilates class. And so when you think about the people who might experience rejection, right, or maybe they have a friendship that is now evolving and is not. benefiting either person anymore, what tips would you have for them to kind of move forward, to heal, to grieve the ending of a friendship?

50:20Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Listen, this is a whole different spinoff episode because I think, unfortunately, so many of us have found ourselves here, right? Like the friendship, the ending of a friendship, the dissolution of a friendship that was once maybe very meaningful to you. And I think the part that people often miss here is actually giving themselves time to grieve, right? And I think society gives us a lot of messages about like friendships that I think are not accurate or don't actually give credence to how important they are. And so when we think about like the end of a friendship, what happens is that you are often experiencing what we call disenfranchised grief, right?

50:57Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Right. So disenfranchised grief is grief that is it doesn't have the same like socializations and rituals related to other losses. Right. So we know for like the loss of a person, there's a funeral, there's a repass, like there's all these spitting with you and like those kinds of things. But there are other losses in our lives that people just kind of want to push over that then make us disconnected from the grieving experience. And the ending of a friendship is one of those one of those experiences. And so I think it is important when there is an ending that you give yourself time to grieve and understand like this is a significant loss, likely because this person meant a lot to you.

51:34Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And there are whole pieces of your world now that no longer exist because you are no longer in community with this person. And so I think the first step is really giving yourself the time and space to grieve this loss and to surround yourself with people who are going to take that loss seriously. because sometimes people will say like, oh, you got plenty of friends, like it's no big deal. Or, oh, I never liked her anyway. Like you're better off without her. Like people think, I think, people think that those kinds of things like are well-intentioned and like that's going to help you. But what it all, all it really does is make you feel worse.

52:06Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And like now you don't even have anybody to talk to about this thing that is really hurtful to you. So I think it's important to find people, whether that is other people in your circle or a therapist or some kind of community where you can talk about how important this person was to you and how sad you are about the fact that this is ending. And I also think that it's important to know that sometimes friendships don't end, right? And it doesn't always have to be this like ugly thing that happens, right? Like we know betrayals happen, of course, but sometimes like relationships just run their course and you find yourself in two different trajectories and like it just doesn't make sense anymore.

52:42Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And it's okay to kind of let each other go with love. Like it doesn't have to be just like weird, difficult, painful kind of conversation, though it may still be sad, but it doesn't have to be a big deal if a friendship has to end. But I think you do need to give yourself the time and space to agree.

52:59Terri:That is so important. I thank you for acknowledging that and what that can look like. And I have a follow up question because I know it's going to come up. So lots of us are in friendship circles, right? So there's it's a group of us. And what happens is two people in the circle have decided to no longer be friends. How would you suggest everyone else in the circle kind of engage with that? Because maybe they still want to be friends with the two individuals that don't connect anymore.

53:42Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:I love that Terry had to take a sip of water on this question because the girls are fighting as they say right but I think that this is very real for those of us who do have circles that we know again because we are human we're not actually robots we are human things happen and like people you know decide they don't want to be in relationship with one another and I think if this is again a place where we have to have some of those difficult conversations and have very clear ideas about boundary setting so you know if there are some people in their circle that and I think it's fair. I don't think it's good to like pick side, right?

54:15Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Like because even though there's a circle of you, you likely also have individual relationships. And so if everybody else in the circle still wants to be friends with with friend A, even though friend C doesn't want to be friends with her anymore. I think that that's totally fine. But I think the other people in the circle have to be very fair about like not trying to like force friend A to come back over if friend C is going to be there and to have conversations with them separately about like, how do you all want to handle this? You know, and it may be, it may make things kind of difficult for a while, right?

54:45Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Because then we can't all go to the happy hour. Maybe now we got to do two different versions of a happy hour. So the whole system will have to adjust. But I think, you know, as people who love one another in a friendship, I think that you can have some conversations where everybody still feels like they are getting their needs met, even if it may be a little difficult for a while.

55:05Dr. Dom:That's great advice. And I had to, you were right, I had to take some water on that one. Because I was like, that is so true. It happens, right? And I'm glad you touched on choosing sides. I was going to ask about what is your perspective on that? Because people do that. And then it's like, dang, I really like this person and connect with them. But now because the friend group is like, we're not following with C. Now you can't. So thank you for covering that, Dr. Joy. Now, we said earlier that Glamour Magazine has named you as a game changer for your work in providing Black women with the resources to improve their mental health.

55:33Dr. Dom:What would you say that you've learned about yourself as you've grown in your business, your impact and your reach?

55:39Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:oh I feel like I have learned so much well one I in writing the book I did not realize how much of a perfectionist I was until I was in the book writing process and so therapy has been incredible for me to kind of like help to release some of those expectations and ideas about like what kind of thing makes sense and like what kind of offering is actually valuable so I never thought I spent so much of my therapy time during the book writing process talking about the book writing process. Because of course, it's a metaphor for like all these other things in your life that just didn't have an avenue to come out.

56:14Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So that was an incredibly eye-opening experience and all the conversations I had in therapy. I also have learned like kind of, I would say, how to be an entrepreneur. Like I never set out to kind of build what has happened. And while it has been like, I would say mostly a fun adventure, it's also been really hard, you know, because my vision for like what my life would be kind of like probably 10 years ago was that I would have a cute little private practice somewhere, you know, seeing a couple of clients and then doing the mom and wife thing. And now I have this whole like team of 12 people and, you know, doing all this traveling and all these things.

56:51Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And it just never is what I would have built or what I, you know, would have desired for my life, but it is what has happened. And so I feel like I've also kind of learned how to be an entrepreneur, but also really want to do business in a way that isn't like all the businesses I've been in, you know, so I feel like I'm trying to like establish this rhythm of, you know, like managing people and like establishing a culture where people like want to show up to do good work because it's really important for me that we do good work because we are in service of Black women and girls. And so developing a company culture where people kind of feel validated and seen.

57:26Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:And even if we have to have difficult conversations, like we can do that with love, you know, so I feel like I've also learned like how to be an entrepreneur that like develops my own kind of thing, which has been really cool.

57:38Terri:Oh, yes, I love that. And I appreciate what you're sharing because Terry and I talk often behind the scenes in our business of like how we can create culture, a work culture that is different from what we have seen before. And so when you think about all that you have learned in your journey so far and what you're trying to build and create, what would you suggest for women who are in spaces where it's not what they want, it's not what they desire, they don't feel seen or heard or valued, what would you suggest for them in navigating that type of situation in the work environment?

58:32Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:Yeah, you know, so unfortunately, we we will find ourselves in those kinds of spaces sometimes that because of this whole capitalist society that we live in, like we know we got to work to kind of keep a roof over our head and like do all of those things. but I also think it's important to kind of minimize as much as you can, like the impact that work has on the rest of your life. And I think sometimes that's out of balance for us because we spend so many hours like in the office or doing some kind of work stuff that it begins to kind of take over our whole lives. But you know, Toni Morrison has this beautiful quote around about you are not the work that you do.

59:06Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:You are you. And so I think it's important to kind of have some kind of balance between like showing up and kind of doing what you need to do to keep your check coming every month, but also cultivating these other spaces in your life where you really feel affirmed and valued. And if that cannot happen in work, how can you put more of your energy and time into making sure that that's happening in other places in your life?

59:29Dr. Dom:Yes, yes. And yes, that is such great insight. And Dr. Joy, as we come to a close with this conversation, we just want to talk a bit about legacy and impact. And when you think about your legacy, your impact, and let's just like fast forward. We're going to like think big picture, fast forward down the line. Like your descendants are consuming your content. They're reading your book. They're tuning into the podcast. What are some of the things you want them to know and remember about who you are, who you were, what you stood for in life?

59:58Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:What a beautiful question. I feel like the thing I want, you know, my kids and my grandkids and whoever else is, you know, coming after me to really remember is like the importance of sharing your story and kind of like sharing your thoughts and your ideas because they are important, not only for you to stay, but because they also unlock something for other people. And I feel like, again, going back to that early story that you talked about, like interviewing me and then interviewing Rachel, like there is, I don't think any coincidence. It is all about connectedness. And so I hope that they will kind of take the examples of things that I've shared and also feel empowered to share their own stories and to be of service to the community.

1:00:42Terri:Oh, yes. Well, Dr. Joy, as always, it has been a pleasure. We have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and wish we could sit in conversation with you for hours. Like this is just, oh, yes, it's what we needed. It's the sisterhood that we needed. and so for our listeners out there who now if they weren't before they know now who you are tell them how they can find you how they can connect with you how they can join the sister

1:01:18Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:circle and where can get your book yes thank you so much it has been such a pleasure i love talking with you all thank you again for having me you can find me all across the socials at hello dr joy So Twitter, Instagram, a little bit of TikTok. I am at HelloDrJoy and all of those places. You can find all things Sisterhood Heals at SisterhoodHeals.com. So you can go there to order a copy of the book, but also please patronize your local bookstores and indie bookstores to get a copy of Sisterhood Heals. And then everything Therapy for Black Girls related, you can find at TherapyForBlackGirls.com.

1:01:53Dr. Joy Harden Bradford:So you'll find our therapist directory there. If you're interested in connecting with a therapist in your area, if you're interested and joining the sister circle, or if you are interested in listening to the podcast, you can find all of that again at therapyforblackgirls.com.

1:02:06Dr. Dom:Thank you so much, Dr. Joy. Thank you.

1:02:11Terri:Hey lady, it's Dr. Dom here from the Cultivating Her Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please reach out to me at drdominiquebroussard.com. That's D-R-D-O-M-I-N-I-Q-U-E-B-R-O-U-S-S-A-R-D.com to schedule a free 15-minute consultation. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today. Please note that our show may contain conversations about self-help, advice, self-empowerment, and mental health, but is by no means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained mental health provider.

1:03:07Terri:If you or someone you know is in need of mental health care, please visit a Therapy for Black Girls directory, Psychology Today, or contact your insurance provider.

1:03:19Dr. Dom:If you liked what you heard and want to keep the conversation going, visit our website at herspacepodcast.com and be sure to click the Patreon tab to get access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show. And before we meet again, repeat after me. My thoughts create my reality. Today, I choose thoughts that empower and uplift me.

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