Marathon Awards | Dissident Cinema

28:55It feels, it does, we talked about it. It feels like a fantasy. You want to believe that life works like this, that maybe at one time life worked like this, or maybe in another time and place life worked like this. And could we have that happen in this time and place? And then it turns out, no, it didn't even happen in this time and place. and we do get this element you're right it's it's a meta sort of panahi like nod where we get a newscast that that makes it feel real gives it that element of a docudrama even though we do realize at some point that this this isn't a real newscast it's the it's the photographer character and this newscast is being broadcast for for one audience us as the audience just like he was speaking to us at the beginning.

29:44He is speaking directly to us now. And we find out that after this joyous verdict and things coming out how it should have come out with justice, things only got worse. More liberties, more freedoms were taken away and expression, freedom of expression was clamped down on even further that ending is so brilliant it leaves you it it does it does send you out of the out of the theater feeling infuriated but hopefully also feeling committed and i think in in that way i think in that way it is it is a dissident gesture and that's why i i chose it there yeah no i like that we we probably should have spent a little

30:36Josh Larsen:more time defining like, well, how are we going to consider something a scene as opposed to a gesture? Um, but it absolutely fits. It absolutely captures the idea of what we're looking for and doesn't remind me now, I didn't rewatch it before putting together these notes, but doesn't it sort of climax with that photojournalist turned news anchor? Then all of a sudden there's a report of him being arrested as well, right? Isn't that like sort of, yeah. So it just builds the paranoia, like builds, builds, builds. And then, but I like, I do, I really like what you said about it being, um, both disturbing and somehow makes you feel committed.

31:15Josh Larsen:Um, I want to come back to that maybe with, with some of the other picks we're going to make, but, but yeah, I think you're right about how that takes place within this particular scene or gesture too. Okay. Then let's get to your tech for dissident gesture. Okay. Let me give you, I did have a couple of honorable mentions. So let me do that real quick first. And this comes from one. The first one comes from Rome, open city. It's the parish boys whistling morning in Florence before Don Pietro is executed briefly, briefly heartening him. That's a great one. Um, like the, the partisan boys. Um, and also this is one we spent time on just last week from the circle.

31:55Josh Larsen:The sex worker who's been arrested throws thrown in the prison bus starts to light a cigarette is told no. A few moments later, the men in the bus light a cigarette. And so she takes that as her opportunity to, I am going to light this cigarette. Very small, very small. But I think in the context of what we've seen in Iran at that time, that's a dissident gesture to light your cigarette, especially as we talked about the recurring motif throughout the movie of the other women attempting to have a cigarette and continually being frustrated, not able to. My dissident gesture though is even smaller.

32:34Josh Larsen:And this didn't come up in our discussion of no regrets for our youth, but I remember noting it. And I didn't know why I noted it because it's a brief scene, a very brief gesture, but I found some encouragement and maybe even commitment to go back to your word in it. there's the moment about maybe a third of the way in where the students of Yuki's father have begun to organize and they want to protest what's happening on their campus, what the moves of the government and so forth. And so they're having this late night meeting. I forget if they're making posters or making plans, something like that.

33:16Josh Larsen:And all of a sudden the janitor comes in and this is late at night and he just gives, provides them snacks. And there was something, someone comments about it. I forget if they say like, why are you still here? Or, you know, you know, we don't need this place cleaned up. Something like, like someone kind of questions him and he just is like, well, this is what I can do. So in that brief moment, you get a sense that I don't know if we see that character ever again in the movie or if we saw him previously, but something just kind of lodged with me about, this is a guy who knew what they were up to, knew his limitations probably for his job, his place in society, but had his convictions and thought, you know what I can do?

34:04Josh Larsen:I can bring these kids snacks while they're planning how to actually go out and do the more, you know, on the ground work. And I thought dissonant gestures kind of look like that too. You need those gestures, too. So not the biggest one of the marathon, but still one that I'm going to give my award to. Yeah, I like it. And it seems intimate. It seems small if we really are taking gesture as it seems you did for these purposes, literally. I like it. And it is a scene that does stand out in that movie because you know that Kurosawa isn't going to put a moment like that in there for nothing. Right.

34:45It is one you recognize that has some potency. To transition back to my best scene, I do want to mention my runner-up for Dissident Gesture, and it's the scene and really the shot where the rebel boys set off a bomb in Rome Open City. It's that moment when they come flying over the hill or whatever that is where we get that what I called the one battle after another moment. I think it's the shot that the PTA consciously or unconsciously paid homage to of the skateboarders and as they emerge out of the smoke. And that, of course, is a very big dissident gesture, but nevertheless, one where we don't know at that point in the movie, if I remember correctly, that all those boys are partisans, that those boys are actively part of the resistance.

35:40But we know it the second we hear that bomb go off and they emerge out of that smoke and it is such a beautifully composed shot back to best scene i do want to give some love this is one where i'll mention a few just a couple other scenes before i get to my picks in the great dictator we have that globe dance that i think is so good is really really something right actually that should have been an honorable mention it is It's my runner up now that I look at my list. It's my runner up because the way he scampers around that room, the way he scampers up the curtain, glides down it, the way he dances with that globe balloon perfectly in sync to Wagner.

36:25And it's just this juxtaposition of beauty and gracefulness. And also, it shows you everything you need to know about the despicable mind of this fascist. That this is his vision of total world domination.

36:47Josh Larsen:That's it. Yeah. It works as chaplain-esque physical comedy, but there's political potency as well. Yes. It's deflating. It's deflating like this notion of, of warmongering, which is really this guy's childish whim. Right. And, and as we've seen that these whims seem to be thrown about even today to horrifying results, but it appears like to the people calling the shots, this is what they, this is how much investment they put in it. They're just playing a game, a silly game. So yeah, there's, it's, it's a delightful bit of comedy, um, that has a lot going on. But then following it, if I remember right, you've got the barbershop scene with his other character in the Hungarian dance, which is genuinely lovely.

37:35In Z, the assassination scene is quite a sequence. And the way we see that from various angles, the sorrow and the pity. We spent some time on Christian de la Mazier. there are so many moments with that character but really the one where he he explicitly so casually defends his collaboration with the nazis just unrepentantly and the circle i i like that you you tied in completing the circle i did think about that but i will be honest and say that i wrote down just the opening hospital sequence that that alone is enough for me to be a a best scene contender, but I'm going with the obvious choice here.

38:20And that's how it works. Sometimes the obvious choice, certainly for me is the right one. It's Pina's death from Rome, open city. And you certainly could call it a dissident gesture. It wouldn't be a great candidate perhaps for best scene of the marathon if it didn't encompass that in some way, But it doesn't begin that way, nor is it really intended, I think, to be an act of defiance. She is simply chasing after the man she loves who is being taken away for no good reason. The man she is supposed to marry. This is an act of love is what this is. And yes, she has just wrenched herself away from the Nazis, but that's what it is.

39:13And here with Rossellini, you have every kind of cinematic approach that he is harnessing in this film to such great effect is on display from still composed shots to dolly shots and following following her as she runs to her coming towards the camera. but the camera's pulling away from her. Two shots, single shots, you name it. It's all being used to such great effect. And you have handheld as well. There is a reason why. And then at the end, Don Pietro holding her and evoking the Pietra. There's a reason why this is iconic. I do think, Josh, if you were making a poster, and when I say you, I don't mean just me.

40:07I'm going to speculate that you might do it as well. I'm going to speculate that if we polled 100 people listening who had watched all of these films and you said, you have to make a poster for this marathon and you can only pick one image from one film. I think it's possible Pina running towards the truck, Pina getting gunned down is the image. I think it's the iconic image of defiance, ultimately, that speaks to what we're trying to explore in this marathon, the oppression and injustice in this marathon. I think that's it, and that's why I picked it.

40:47Josh Larsen:Yeah, the filmmaking is why it's a scene of the marathon candidate, you know, as you described, all the elements it took to pull that off, including in the conditions this film was made. You know, we talked about that a little bit is this was, in some sense, a guerrilla effort. And to be able, within that context, provide something so precisely staged, filmed, and then edited is quite a feat. So yeah, definitely why it was an honorable mention for me and totally get why it was the winner for you. So we are at best picture. Certainly sounds like it could be a difficult choice for the both of us, considering the quality of films in this marathon.

41:35Six to twos from Josh, where did you go?

41:39Josh Larsen:Well, a lot of times with these marathon award shows, it becomes obvious as we go on like, oh, this one's been mentioned a lot. This one's been mentioned a lot. It's probably going to be Adam's best picture or Josh's best picture. In this case, it's one that's hardly come up. My winner is the sorrow and the pity. And I don't know, man. I just, maybe I'm influenced by the fact that this one applied. I felt the most to our current situation in the United States. As I was watching it, I just kind of like, I kept tensing up more and more. And yes, I think this is what? Over four hours, right? four and a half hours.

42:17Josh Larsen:So I was pretty tense at the end. A document of France occupied by Nazi Germany, but all the dynamics I saw at play reiterated the reality that United States is occupied from the inside, just forces ignoring the constitution, bending, breaking laws, regulations blatantly disobeying international law. And why does that make it the film of the marathon for me? Because I think it connected most to why we want to do this marathon is try to wrap our heads around what's happening. And not only is the sorrow and the pity intricately constructed and needs all of those four and a half hours in ways that we discussed.

43:03Josh Larsen:But it was revelatory in that sense of how this can happen so quickly to countries that otherwise you would think would have different values. And related to that is the question, as I was clenched up at the end, so what are we going to do? And it struck me that Sour in the Pity is a wake-up call to anyone who thinks they can ride out humanity's worst impulses. If you think you can just look the other way, go about your day,

43:39Josh Larsen:that movie documented how the people who chose to do it that way, they're living in a different reality in the moment and for the rest of their lives. And so dissidence of some kind is going to be required for the country, for your neighbors, for your own conscience, really. I think of that phrase. At times like these, you really see people's character. You know, one of the interviewees says that. So Ophel's document, it was crucial in its time and place. We talked about that, right? It's like what it meant to France at the time of its release. Sadly, still crucial. So I'm going to make it my pick just for its effect on me and its lasting relevance.

44:23Yeah, I think it's a wonderful choice because I strongly considered it. and it's my runner up. It is, it is my number two film from the marathon. And to your point about its relevance. And I think we, we did manage to find relevance to our current day situation without straining at all in every single film that we talked about in this marathon. But this one, the sorrow and the pity is the movie that, that forced the toughest questions and made me think about the most questions. The one that I saw, we spent time on this, but the one I saw in my notes as I was refreshing my memory today, the one that lingers with me the most from my notes as I watched this film is, am I wrong to feel like our collaborators need to be punished?

45:23speaking to exactly what you said about being occupied from the inside that that's how i felt to watching this film that's what i was thinking about and so i think we have collaborators similar to how some of the french people the french resistance people felt in this movie otherwise i'm not comparing myself to those french resistance fighters at all sure other other than that that feeling and you can take the word punished there punish is doing a lot of work Because you can take punished there to mean according to the letter of the law and simply want what should be coming to some of them for violating our constitution, for breaking the law, and you hope that things are set right.

46:08Or you can take it to mean something that is coming from a place within me and probably others that is seeking more retribution. Which we see in the documentary, right? Which we also see in the documentary. Exactly. Yeah. So that's why it's my runner up. But as you maybe have been able to predict from at least my last choice. Can I guess? You can guess. Okay.

46:39Josh Larsen:I feel like it's Rome Open City, but part of me also feels like you've mentioned the great dictator way more than I have. even though I enjoyed it quite a bit. But then I expected, is it The Great Dictator? No, it's not. Okay. I did enjoy The Great Dictator this time around more than maybe I expected to. Okay. And I do think it's a very good film. Yeah, it is. I don't know where I would rank it. I haven't ranked the films of this marathon. I do know that The Sorrow and the Pity is number two. And I know that Rome Open City is the, I was going to say the essential, but I think the sorrow and the pity is also essential.

47:21It's my favorite. Rome Open City is my favorite film. I said that Z created the blueprint for the modern political thriller. I'm not the only one who has suggested something like that. This film, Rome Open City, created the blueprint for modern resistant cinema. You can trace the exact line from one battle after another to the Battle of Algiers, back to Rossellini and this film. We were talking about the different techniques employed. Just in that one sequence, Pina's death. This is a movie that somehow works so incredibly. And it's part melodrama. It's part suspense drama. It's pseudo documentary newsreel type approach.

48:06And it's all combined with the neorealist approach at times. and you have as we've touched on two of the best characters and performances we saw in this marathon in maniani's pina and fabrizi's don pellegrini i already mentioned two of the most memorable scenes pina's death and the the rebel boys you also singled out the ending and the boys whistling We could probably highlight others. You have a non-believer, I found out later, in Rossellini, who makes a profound movie, I think, about faith, which is another fascinating angle on this film. and you alluded to this earlier another thing that makes this film so remarkable is its perspective despite the proximity to the events to the oppression that it is depicting it's set in 1944 it's shoot shooting in early 1945 the war isn't even over yet this is completely fresh only rome has been liberated so the germans just got out of town and here's rossellini saying now i'm going to render this experience on screen and yeah the the buildings the the backdrop is the backdrop that's why it feels neorealist because he doesn't have to fabricate anything there's there's no production design really needed certainly in the streets of rome because the backdrop is there.

49:47The city experienced it. The people experienced it. And I think Rome Open City is an achievement. That's why it's my favorite film of the marathon. It's getting my partisan.

50:00Josh Larsen:Convincing. I'm going to make it my honorable mention. I didn't really have one, but yeah, if I did that ranking too, I think that's where I would land. We'd be flip-flopped. I'd have Sorrow and the Pity as the best and then Rome Open City. just after that. I like that. Can I ask you a question before we wrap up here? If it's easy. I don't know if it's easy. As I've been putting these notes together, I've been asking myself this. I think I've meandered toward an answer, so I'll ask you and I guess give mine and give you time to percolate on it. Do you feel better or worse about the state of America after doing this marathon?

50:40Josh Larsen:because I think, as I said, one of the reasons we wanted to do it is just to try to make sense of what's happening here and get some historical context, perhaps. I think also I was hoping to come out of it feeling one way or the other. And so now that we're at the end, I guess I would say, if you asked me that question, I would say encouraged. And I think I mean, we've witnessed how in these dramatizations and in one documentary, the human spirit has weathered, survived, and in some cases pushed back against fascism, authoritarianism in the last 50, 80 years that we've been looking at in these movies.

51:31Josh Larsen:And there's something oddly, maybe it's just like there's more people in the foxhole with us in a way, historically, that I find some encouragement. But just reminders, we're not the first to go through a variation of this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a clear response. It's a great question. And it's funny, too, because we could spend a lot of time on this and I don't want to at this point. But you look at the six films we watched. And if you do a quick snapshot, how many of them truly end with hope? How many of them know it? How many of them truly end on a positive note? Even even something like The Great Dictator, of course, ends with hope because you've got this this great plea.

52:21for love and compassion, part of that, part of our response to it might be that it just rings a little, little false. But beyond that, we also, we also have the, the unfortunate benefit of hindsight. And we know that, we know that, that it, that the call to action didn't work. And so there's that part of it as well. In some ways, you could say this marathon is more of a downer than one that would encourage us. But I think, Josh, I'm with you that the scale is slightly tipped more towards encouragement. I could be a little more discouraged in some ways that I now I now see. Of course, we were both aware of this, but that I now see so many more examples of different people being oppressed in so many different ways and all the different types of injustice and how I learned how horribly people are treated.

53:21Historically, honestly. Yeah, I mean, that could that could dispirit you, certainly. And I felt that at times watching the marathon. but watching watching the resilience watching the resilience and you you made a great call to action yourself at one point watching this marathon was it during the sorrow and the pity was it during our conversation about that film or was it earlier about i think it was the sorrow and the pity that i thought was that i thought was very convincing and i think that I think that's because of the power of a film like that and that ultimately we see in people like the French resistance fighters.

54:07You can't help but be emboldened by that and think, as you were saying, can't help but think, well, then surely I can do something. Surely, I'm not having to sacrifice on the level of those guys. Surely I can play some small part in that, in this and what we're experiencing. And with that in mind, then I think ultimately I'm in a better place than I was when it began.

54:33Josh Larsen:Okay, good. Good. Let's go with that. So add that to the reasons we're happy to have done this marathon. There you go. We encourage you to check out all of our marathons at filmspotting.net slash marathons. You can get caught up on our conversations about all the films if you missed any there. We will select our 2027 marathon topic later this year. Now, that is something that Film Spotting Advisory Board members get to weigh in on. They really get to shape the candidates. And then we let Film Spotting family members vote on the final marathon. I think that's how we usually do it is the FAB helps us whittle it down.

55:18We get finalists, the family pick. So if you want to help decide what our next marathon is going to be, what the content of this show is going to be, you can become a Film Spotting family member. You can learn more at filmspottingfamily.com. Remember, we do have a promotion going on now where you can get 20 % off any subscription that runs through this month. All you have to do is use the promo code summer.

55:43Josh Larsen:quick reminder before we leave that we've got a lot coming your way in the film spotting feed on monday is the movie racket with michael phillips this time the subject the movie laws of book to film adaptations michael's timely is david yeah no kidding kajanic kajanic is the screenwriter slash adapter of luca guadagnino's suspiria bones and all and a bigger splash so They'll look for the movie racket on Monday. Then on Tuesday, we've got film spotting SVU coming your way. They'll be talking about Louis Leterrier's The Last House. That one stars Greta Lee and Wagner Mora. It's available on Netflix.

56:23Josh Larsen:On Thursday, the next picture show has part two of their latest pairing, the Anthony Bourdain biopic, Tony plus Pixar's Ratatouille. Friday, we'll be back to discuss David Robert Mitchell's The End of Oak Street. I'll have a few words on Tony as well. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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