One Battle After Another Review, Predators

23:09Adam Kempenaar:And according to my reading anyway, to some degree, isn't Bob sort of a con man? You could argue he's barely playing the role of a father, but I'm really talking about how we meet him in the prologue. Isn't he, even with that name, Ghetto Pat, I think it supports this. And I think DiCaprio's performance supports this. the nervousness, that anxiety, how perfidia has to urge him on, how he constantly seems to be having to prove himself that he's worthy to be with her, that he's worthy to be part of this resistance group, the French 75. The ease then also with which he falls into fatherhood and domesticity, right?

23:57Adam Kempenaar:Ghetto Pat seems to be an upper middle class white boy from Ohio who joined the revolution, right? And I have to say Ohio because I'm from Iowa. Otherwise, I'd say from Iowa, right? But there's a key line, and I may not have it exactly right. You maybe have it in your notes. My notes were completely worthless to me. But there's a scene where he's talking to his mother-in-law, Perfidia's mother, and she says to him something like, you'll never be good enough for her. You'll never be up to her standard. For my daughter. And I, for my daughter. And I think, I think she says something like she's a runner.

24:35Adam Kempenaar:I think the words like a runner and, and that will, that will have, or something along those lines. And that will have resonance later. But in the moment, it's clear that what she's saying is, you know, perfidy is, she's a hunter. She is always on the move. She is volatile. She's never going to be contained. And it's kind of like, she's saying, you're a lump. You don't belong here, really. You don't belong with her. And even if you reject everything I've said, what are those mentor-protege relationships fundamentally predicated on? And even what are con artists manipulating? I do think it's all about power.

25:18Adam Kempenaar:And that's at the core of every dynamic and decision that's made in this movie. If you if you look at every single one of them, including, of course, that that key scene, that that scene where we meet perfidia and lockjaw and where we see them interacting in other scenes, too. It's fundamentally the story of America. And oh, what what is that type of power? It is specifically white power. Right. And that's what this movie hilariously excoriates.

25:48Josh Larsen:Yeah, I think that's right. And I think the mentor protege dynamic is at play, even if to me, it's a little more seen through the prism of the father and daughter. Actually, we should probably say at this point, Willa, his daughter as a teenager, we do jump ahead after the opening section, 16 years played really well by Chase Infinity, a relative newcomer. It's almost about Bob coming into maybe mentors, a strong word, but coming into the realization that, um, for him to be the best dad to this young woman, he's going to have to shake off the apathy and he's going to have to be more than what, as you're describing, I think you're right.

26:31Josh Larsen:He was probably something of a hanger on in that opening scene where we see perfidia, um, leading an attack on a detention center and he's the explosives expert and she's telling him what to do. I almost thought he was just the way DiCaprio carries himself. He's kind of like a gun for hire. I didn't know what sort of convictions he had. And then we realized they're in a romantic relationship that raises another question.

26:54Adam Kempenaar:Just real quick. You get the dynamic that maybe it is almost like he's proving himself. Like they aren't in a full fledged relationship yet. You could read it.

27:01Josh Larsen:Maybe that too. But there are basically the point is you don't sense the cause is what's primarily driving him. At least I didn't get that sense. I don't think he was objecting to it, but he's a little bit along for the ride. And, um, I think in terms of this dynamic, you're talking about mentor protege, um, you know, maybe it reverses where the daughter becomes the mentor to the, to the father as the movie goes on. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about DiCaprio's performance. I think he's just, this is a first rate dimmed bulb in the line of the likes of, of course, you know, we're thinking about Jeff Bridges and the big Lebowski or Joaquin Phoenix in the other pension adaptation from Paul Thomas Anderson, right?

27:44Josh Larsen:In Heron Weiss. He's as, as good, I think as, um, well, he's almost as good as both of them in those, in those films. I really enjoyed him here. Uh, not only the way he dims his bulb, like it's clearly because of the drugs, right? But it's also because of the psychic weight of this failed revolution and the burden of raising a child in this climate. Because we learn that 16 years have gone by. And if anything, things have only gotten worse. Right? Their movement, people are scattered because of an incident we won't detail. They're underground as he is hiding. And he's trying to make sense of raising a teenager in this environment.

28:24Josh Larsen:It took a while, Adam, but I knew I was on board with the performance. It shifts into high comic gear when he shows up at a parent teacher meeting stoned, but also weepy. He just says, if I get emotional. And he takes a drag. He takes a drag during it. But you're right. Right in the meeting. When he gets emotional. If I get emotional, it's just tears of joy. That's all. But the thing about the performance is he's not just trying to cover up. He is, but he also means it. He really means it because he's got a good report about his daughter at school. Yes. And this is just what DiCaprio is trying to balance as this character.

29:03Josh Larsen:And yeah, from that scene on, he puts the pedal down and never lets up through the rest of the movie.

29:10Adam Kempenaar:No, I don't or I haven't come up with yet the right adjective to describe what I'm thinking about DiCaprio's performance. But I like that, of course, the touch points for it have to be Doc Sportello because it's PTA and it's a Pynchon adaptation. But it's a very different performance and it's very different than the other go-to, which is Lebowski. It just it doesn't it doesn't have that same stoner vibe to it. There is something different about it. And I think one of the things that's different about it is that it just doesn't feel, but I think in a good way, it doesn't feel quite as lived in.

29:48Adam Kempenaar:It feels like someone who was transplanted into that character and is still taking it on in some way. And I'm really glad that you mentioned that psychic weight because in the few comments I've seen about him here and there or about the character, everyone talks about him just as, and we have so far, as this apathetic character or someone who, you know, the revolution's been gone for a while. So now he's just hanging around and he's getting drunk and stoned and doesn't feel like there's a fight anymore or he's too lazy or not willing to fight. Going back to what we've said about the emotional core of this film, I still see him as fundamentally a heartbroken character.

30:29Adam Kempenaar:Yes. Josh, as well. I think that is also part of who he is, and that's driving so much of his apathy. It's not just that, what was me, quote unquote, the 60s aren't here anymore. I think he's a heartbroken character. character. I used a word earlier at the start of my comments that I want to come back to a little bit because it relates to Paul Thomas Anderson and the filmmaking. And you have to be careful a little bit how often you go to certain words or phrases as a critic when praising movies, especially in the same year. When we talked about Sinners, I spoke about it having the rhythms and audaciousness of some of our boldest musicals.

31:11Adam Kempenaar:I know that Punch Drunk Love feels to many like a musical, despite there being no, no singing in it. And of course there are numerous sequences we can point to in Paul Thomas Anderson's filmography, where we can single out the fluidity and the intricacy of the camera, the elaborate nature of the shots, right? The coordination with the performers, but with battle, I had a different sense and it was largely in that extended, I'm going to call it the extended raid on back 10 cross, especially when we haven't mentioned him yet, especially when Benicio del Toro was on screen. And I wonder if you were thinking, I wonder if you were thinking the same thing I was, because even though you liked the movie more than me, we were both a little down on the mellowness of Benicio del Toro and the Phoenician scheme.

32:01Adam Kempenaar:And here it couldn't have served this movie better. He is so good as this sensei in this movie who ends up coming to the aid not only of Bob when he most needs it, but also so many other people in a scenario that he even himself describes it as a Harriet Tubman-like situation going on. Wait, a Latino Harriet Tubman situation. There you go, right? That's exactly what it is. But when he's on screen, it relates to how the camera, Josh, slows to match the calmness of that character who truly is like the conductor of the Latino Harriet Tubman-like situation. All the movements that are occurring. I was keenly aware of the blocking, everything that was occurring, not of the camera, how it was moving, but everything that was occurring within the frame, the choreography of it.

33:03Adam Kempenaar:That's the word for the camera to capture, not not how the camera again was moving within the space, but how the camera was there to observe for us, how we were then able to observe in that space with a sense of often real time urgency. It wasn't like the long shot in Boogie Nights, right, where, you know, sure, we see William H. Macy's character kill himself. Right. And it's it draws a lot of attention to itself. it's about us being able to to observe in real time and that that sense of intimacy and urgency but it's not overwhelming it's heightened but it's steady bodies are constantly in motion but it never feels jagged or jarring the only way i could really describe it and and here it's just a little bit of a trick that pta pulls off he somehow creates a serene intensity i need you brother

33:57Josh Larsen:Sensei, sensei, sensei, please. Courage, Bob.

34:00Adam Kempenaar:Courage. That's it. Courage. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Hey, thank you, sensei. Thank you, sensei. Thank you. God damn it. Viva la revolution!

34:17Josh Larsen:That's a great, great description of it. The one thing I had to put out there in Blue Sky after I saw this was maybe Benicio Del Toro will save us all. because that's what I hope so. I think he has this, it's this bemused spiritual calm. You know, we should say this is when, um, the town has been taken over by the military, the streets they've instigated among protesters and an attack. And that is what proceeds the, the underground railroad to go into effect, to get some of these mostly women and children, not violent criminals, um, women and children who are being targeted by the military. And Del Toro's calm balances with DiCaprio's anticness.

35:03Josh Larsen:This relates to our discussion of how invested in the cause is Bob, because there isn't until there's a moment where Del Toro has given him clear, calm directions about what to do, where to go. And Bob pauses, catches a breath, and that's when he screams out viva la revolution, right? It's not so much because he's about to make a blow against the authorities. It's because he knows what to do. He's been told what to do. But Del Toro in this scene, and yeah, the blocking and the camera work, because we're following him upstairs, downstairs, through back rooms, in and out of shops, this elaborate system he's put together.

35:45Um, but he just has, uh, this, this sense of assuredness to him that is so reassuring.

35:57Josh Larsen:And to your point about the Phoenician scheme, yeah, that was one of my, my main, um, qualms about that movie is how is it constricted Del Toro into a Wes Anderson type of character. Other actors have given their best performances as that type, but to me, it just did not fit Del Toro who needs to have a certain looseness. I don't know if I identified it as much while watching the Phoenician scheme until I saw him here. And I think this might be a career best turn for him because there is, even when he's playing villains, like really scary guys, which he's done in the past, there's this same sense of calm or looseness where he's not always, he's not necessarily taking the scene or the actions as seriously as you think he should be, but it's because he knows what he has a firmer grasp on it.

36:45Josh Larsen:And this, this whole sequence just allows him to be this, this grumbly sage who's rumbling through these halls, not being hurried because he knows exactly what to do. It's wonderful. In addition to the politics of the film,

37:01Adam Kempenaar:as we're describing it, that we were on board with the emotional core of it, that we've talked about that, that did resonate with us. the humor of the film. You can find humor in all of PTA's movies. I'm pretty sure I had a scene from Licorice Pizza as my funniest moment of 2021, or it was the runner-up. I'm certain I had a scene from Inherent Vice as my funniest moment of 2014. I'd probably still put Boogie Nights as his funniest film, but I think this would be my number two, Josh. And it's also obviously his most action-oriented film, his most suspenseful, despite that steadiness I was talking about.

37:38Adam Kempenaar:And there is a chase scene at the end. This is one of those movies where I'm sitting in my seat with my knee bouncing in rhythm to the score, you know, wondering where this is exactly going and feeling the intensity of it. And actually, it it is a steadiness where you're feeling it kind of the entire film. So you've got that, right? You've got that intensity that's maintained for almost the entire two hour and 50 minute running time. But all those elements are culminating with that humor. And even though I'm not someone who has read Pynchon, I understand that Pynchon-esque, some of it through films like Inherent Vice, that Pynchon-esque postmodern sensibility tinged with paranoia as it is here, that absurdist sensibility.

38:28Adam Kempenaar:And the bottom line is we haven't mentioned this part of the story yet, and I want to mention it here because it relates to the humor. I mean, Hail Saint Nick. This will mean something to you when you see the movie if you haven't. And St. Nick is one of the funniest three word phrases you'll hear all year at the movies. And I want to praise I want to praise Paul Thomas Anderson and whoever I should look it up, whoever his casting agent is, because. Whoever is responsible for coming up with this group of completely unrecognizable, for the most part, unrecognizable, but innocuous looking, evil, middle aged white dudes.

39:10Adam Kempenaar:they deserve a raise i'm thinking i'm thinking and i i went for the record i i wanted to give them praise i went to imdb and i just did not have the time to scroll through every name and try to identify them i couldn't i couldn't pick them out you know the pictures didn't line up or whatever but the i'm thinking of the second in command to lockjaw who we see interrogate oh yeah people yeah perfect right every single person and one of them i can't believe i didn't i didn't recognize this guy, even though now, of course I see it. He's the Tony. Yes. But, but other than Tony Goldman, who you do, most of us do know the one guy who we see later in the house who at first is silent and we're not sure that he's going to talk.

39:53Adam Kempenaar:Oh yeah. That's, that's Kevin Teague. That's Kevin Teague from the bar owner of the double deuce in roadhouse. So he's a fairly a classic that guy we we kind of recognize him right yeah but otherwise all those other guys are that guys that we don't know and i'm calling these innocuous looking evil middle-aged white dudes the tony goldwin all-stars and every one of them in this movie josh is just so perfect this is the christmas

40:23Josh Larsen:adventures club this is like conspiracy pulling the strings we learn and um it's so funny i saw just on blue sky today alissa wilkinson the new york times critic say something about being out in new york and she's pretty sure she i think she said something like pretty sure i saw a member walking down the street i'm sure i we had the same thing here what debbie and i were walking down and we saw a guy sitting like a really nice house in town here and he was out in his yard just sitting on the patio in like a you know innocuous but but very expensive clearly like sweater vest and we both were like we looked at her like oh he's in the christmas adventures club yeah has to be so this is so funny and and it is it is really fun and it's sometimes it's beautifully i'm gonna call it a sequence that has the humor and also the filmmaking chops and this is actually part of the entire sensei sequence but at this point um del toro's character has sent bob off with some skaters he said these guys will get you safe where you need to go and the route is across the rooftops because as I said, the military has taken over the streets and are just, you know, shooting at random below.

41:33Josh Larsen:This is shot by, um, Anderson and cinematographer, Michael Bauman from a distance and in silhouette. And so you have these, these skaters, these younger guys with their boards, just, you know, very beautifully leaping in silhouette from one building to the other. And just as you're thinking like, oh, this is a, I have this sense of like mythical resistance. And then we have Bob stumbling behind them, barely able to keep up. And, and that's just, you know, the, this is what's so great about this movie too, is it's willing to puncture those moments with humor. It's not taking itself too seriously, even though it's probably going to be the most serious movie that comes out in the United States this year, but it doesn't carry itself this way.

42:20Adam Kempenaar:Rise and shine.

42:22Josh Larsen:Hi.

42:23Adam Kempenaar:What's up? What's up, homie? It's me again, Bob Ferguson. I don't know if you remember, but we spoke earlier on the phone. I think we had a little misunderstanding. I think we got off on the wrong foot. I was trying to get the rendezvous point for my daughter, Willa. If you can't answer what time is it, I cannot give you the rendezvous point. This is a key tenet of the rebellion. I'm surprised you can't name it. I don't know if you are. I do love that it punctures that mythos there. But what it does with that imagery is still astounding. That shot, that silhouetted shot of those those younger men on the skateboard is still among the most vivid shots in his filmography.

43:12Adam Kempenaar:and think about what he's given us through 10 films.

43:15Josh Larsen:I have one that wowed me even more. And it's during the climactic car chase, which we won't even say who's involved, but it is taking place on this stretch of desert hills. And at one point, they must have placed the camera on the hood of one of the cars. Three cars are involved. And as the vehicle kind of lulls up and down this road, The road is like an undulating road and the experience of watching it from that point of view was, it was anxious, but also mesmerizing. And it was inducing in me because it kind of is repeated and goes on. And it was inducing in me like a nausea, but also a sleepiness.

44:03Josh Larsen:And, and the only thing I could think about is when I got out of the movie and even a day or two later, like what was that all about is, oh, that's how I felt for the last 10 years. I've exactly life has felt like being on that road of dipping up and down and not knowing what's over the next hill and what it might do to you. And my goodness, however, they got that shot and sustained it so that it works in terms of suspense, but also on a certain level, just pure beauty is incredible.

44:36Adam Kempenaar:Well, it kind of goes back to what I was saying and we were talking about. It is intense and suspenseful, and yet it feels I remember the feeling of watching it and what you're talking about with the undulation. There's a certain serenity to it as well, isn't it? So it's crazy how they managed to balance that in this film. There is, I think we've had the discussion we probably wanted to have and we could close here, but I will at least raise that I knew within about 10 minutes of this film that among the conversations that were going to be had about this film, there was definitely going to be the discourse around a certain issue.

45:23Adam Kempenaar:with the movie. One that, one that the two of us probably aren't the best people to weigh in on, but I knew there was going to be a discourse. And sure enough, I woke up this morning and I, I actually, these days I'm not on social media much at all, but I, I will usually wake up and just sort of check in. And the very first thing I saw this morning, it had begun, Josh. I don't know if you know what I'm referring to, but I guess I will throw out vaguely. Do you want to get into it or do you want to wait until feedback on an upcoming show and get into whatever this discourse might be?

46:02Josh Larsen:Yeah. I mean, we're going to have to, I'm unaware of it. Um, I've, I was, I was in a bunker before seeing this and I've tried to be in a bunker aside from, you know, that Alyssa Wilkinson comments and a few other things since until we've had this conversation, I cannot wait till tomorrow to be able to dive into all the critics who I respect their takes. And I'm sure there's going to be some pushback. I surprised it hasn't started already because so far it's just been a wave of raves seeing star ratings come through on, on letterbox. So yeah, I'm going to dive into all of that tomorrow and perhaps we'll pick it up.

46:40Josh Larsen:Yeah. When we, we get some feedback, which sounds good.

46:43Adam Kempenaar:I had thoughts because they relate to the experience I had watching the movie. They don't relate to the thoughts or I should say the specific criticisms that this person had because they just came out this morning and I didn't have time to read those. So I wasn't I wasn't going to be reacting to that article necessarily or not at all. I was just going to be talking about what I saw on the screen. now as it is the the discourse will pick up in the days before our next episode and maybe we will be more informed and we can talk about it and hey this is a movie that needs to be interrogated i

47:22Josh Larsen:mean just because i'm in line with its totally relative politics if you want to say that doesn't mean that it's a film that has everything lined up perfectly right it's capturing chaos and capturing a way to honorably respond to that chaos from my point of view, but it doesn't mean that it has everything right along those lines. So I'll be curious to see that. And I think the only other thing I would say on the political front is I almost, part of me was like, this doesn't even really feel political because it's not arguing against a political direction we may be heading towards, you know, or, and it's not even offering an alternative political vision to our current circumstances.

48:06Josh Larsen:That goes to your point about, you know, whether it's, it's endorsing the, this guerrilla group's actions, it's, it's just mirroring what we're in right through this comically absurdist lens. And all I can say is that, um, by doing that, it goes back to what I said at the top. It felt like this desperately needed fresh air to me. It's like, this is what I've just been feeling. Why are we not talking? Why are we not recognizing this? And, and one battle after another is at least doing that. Is it doing it perfectly? Probably not. And yeah, we'll see. We'll see what qualms other people might have about it.

48:48Adam Kempenaar:It's a good thing. I don't expect perfection from art, even from Paul Thomas Anderson. One battle after another is currently playing in wide release. If you see it and agree or disagree, you can email us feedback at filmspotting.net.

49:25Josh Larsen:Theaters everywhere January 16th. Well, listening is the number one thing you can do to support an independently produced show like ours. Here are a couple of other things you can do. Take a minute to give us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also do this on Spotify if you listen to us there. It doesn't matter if you're brand new. This is the first show you're hearing or if you've been listening for 20 years. Every one of these reviews does help us reach new listeners. Now, to go even further, a very substantial way to support us is to join the Film Spotting family, which you can do at filmspottingfamily.com.

50:01Josh Larsen:We want to thank family member Rami Massey in Leland, Michigan. Rami's letterbox handle is R-M-A-S-S-E.

50:09Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, this is tough because producer Sam did a great job of phonetically spelling out the name. And I'm not sure where he got that from. Maybe he reached out to this family member. But the problem is you do have to put where the emphasis is. So is it Remy or is it Remy? This is me.

50:30Josh Larsen:I looked this up because I knew I would be saying this. And I would have to. I think it's Remy. I'm going to go Remy. Okay. I checked it on for four. So we'll see. We'll hear from Remy or Remy and see what they say.

50:46Adam Kempenaar:From here on out, we're going to call him he, and I'm going to hope that's right. Please tell us Remy or Remy, which pronunciation is correct. After moving to a city where I knew nobody other than my now wonderful wife, I found myself missing the movie conversations that regularly sprung up with my college housemates. After watching The Banshees of Inesheron, I was desperate to have a discussion with someone, anyone. Film spotting was the first result online, and Adam and Josh hooked me in and haven't let go since. A favorite review or segment. Top five movies for graduates found me at the right time.

51:23Adam Kempenaar:The respect for Hayao Miyazaki from both Adam and Josh let me know I was in the right place. And because of their top fives, I watched Columbus and Ikaru for the first time and adored both. Good job by us. what review did we get wrong I can't find it on film spotting but Hirokazu Kureta's monster I thought it was brilliant and one of my favorites of the year sorry Josh you didn't like that movie Josh yeah I was a little down

51:47Josh Larsen:on it but hey in the case of Kureta I'm probably wrong so that's fine

51:53Adam Kempenaar:letterbox top four spirited away I mean here you guys are simpatico again fantastic Mr. Fox there will be blood that one there will be blood is great in the fall I love the fall as well okay Tarsem Singh A favorite movie that Remy revisited recently, Bong Joon-ho's Memories of Murder. Good one. A random filmmaker that he loves, Rob Reiner. Not necessarily because I think he's one of the great filmmakers, but he certainly doesn't get enough love from film nerds. A movie you credit with becoming a cinephile. He says, my dad loved Jim Carrey movies when I was a kid. And after showing my brother and I Ace Ventura When Nature Calls, we watched The Truman Show and it completely altered what I loved about movies.

52:31Adam Kempenaar:I can still love a terrible, exquisite film like Ace Ventura, but The Truman Show led me down a path of loving movies for something a little different. I can see that. Terrible, exquisite for Ace Ventura. That's kind of great. Thank you, Remy, for joining the family and for all those years of listening. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your support comes with perks. Josh, they get to listen early and ad-free. I'm not sure if you're aware. They get our weekly newsletter. They get exclusive opportunities like being part of the FilmSpotting family discord, just an unruly bunch. No, actually, they're quite ruly.

53:05Adam Kempenaar:Great group of FilmSpotting family members over there having wonderfully insightful and sometimes absolutely absurd conversations. And you get our monthly bonus shows. We have channels over there devoted to music, books, sports, food, but yes, also movies, new releases, older films, TV, you name it. September bonus show was our trivia spotting edition that is now available. Josh, the one you know you slept through because you're in Scotland. I did. I slept quite well. How did you do it?

53:40Josh Larsen:Where did you place? That's all I really want to know.

53:42Adam Kempenaar:I did not podium. oh i didn't i didn't make the top three but but my team fared well i mean we i think we got at least seven right both rounds and i went quite deep in the in the lightning round the captain's lightning round i think i was what was the topic it was uh it was directors and it was of directors of sundance winning films okay i think i was the last i was the third from last out so i i had it I had a shot and, and the one, the one I went out on is so depressing because as Sam and I were talking about later, there were ones throughout where you were, you were just praising the Lord that you didn't get because you, you should have known, but you just could not pull the name.

54:31Adam Kempenaar:You know, Josh, how it is when you can't pull the name. And, and, and then there were others that, that you knew and you were so grateful that you got those. the one that I went out on the one that I went out on for me it was hump day one of my favorites like one of my movies the the movie that I championed years ago on the show and I mistakenly said the Duplass brothers because I thought about Mark Duplass being in the film right right right Right. I'm not going to say, well, I'm going to say that I thought Thomas was a little too quick on the draw. And I think you should be allowed to think out loud for a second.

55:18Adam Kempenaar:Like, why does the first thing you say Thomas, why does the first thing you say have to be your final answer? Why can't you think out loud? But right after I said it and everyone jumped on me for being stupid, I, it hit me, of course, that like Lynn Shelton, the great Lynn Shelton. Felton, of course, directed Hump Day. I mean, I knew it. It took me a second, but wow.

55:42Josh Larsen:That's the way it goes. Yeah, it is. That's how trivia spotting can go.

55:45Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, it's a bummer. October bonus, we are going to do a draft with a family member. Looking forward to that. Please do learn more about becoming a member and supporting the show at filmspottingfamily.com. Hi. Hey.

56:04Josh Larsen:You sound so sweet. Are you nervous about talking to me?

56:09Adam Kempenaar:Yeah.

56:11Josh Larsen:You know, we got to be like really careful about doing this.

56:16Adam Kempenaar:Yeah.

56:17Josh Larsen:Adam, you caught up with a new film called Predators. As you mentioned earlier, this shouldn't be confused with the animated Predator Killer of Killers, which came out earlier this year. I still hope to catch up with. Or Predator Badlands, which is coming to theaters next month. This is totally different. Predators is a documentary from director David Osit about the reality TV program to catch a predator. The premise of this show was basically hunt down child predators, lure them to a film set where they would be interviewed and then arrested. It ran from 2004 to 2007. So, yeah, a fascinating idea for a documentary.

57:01Josh Larsen:I'd love to hear what they do with this sort of material in the doc.

57:07Adam Kempenaar:They do a lot. Yeah, they do a lot. And I don't know. I could be wrong. I don't know if they actually lured them to a TV set or if they lured them to an actual house that had basically been turned into a TV set. But I'll say this. The opening of the trailer that you just heard is also the opening of the movie. So yes, right from the start, it is as deeply unsettling as you might expect this material to be. Predators lingers long after the final frame. I remember to catch a predator on TV. I remember seeing bits of it. This isn't revisionist history because anybody who did watch it regularly, if they watch this show, they might after it feel like maybe I shouldn't say that out loud or maybe I should feel guilty about it.

58:03Adam Kempenaar:I'll let others wrestle with their conscience or not. I do remember seeing maybe an episode or two, but I certainly was not familiar with the lore around it or the fact that people would go to conventions around, of course, true crime and Chris Hansen. And I knew he was a celebrity, but I didn't realize that he was a celebrity to the extent that he was and that there were all these to catch a predator wannabes now on YouTube basically doing the same work. And to be fair, just like Chris Hansen, they are working usually with police, with authorities, and they are catching actual predators. Right.

58:42So you can you can point to real justice being done.

58:47Adam Kempenaar:but there is a downside to a lot of this whenever whenever you have punishment as entertainment there is a downside to this that this movie and you can imagine that well this movie explores that and and i i mentioned that i didn't know the lore i also didn't know about some of the the recurring gags almost on the show or some of the catchphrases at the end of the trailer you hear the documentarians say to Chris Hansen, you're free to go.

59:21Josh Larsen:Some people watching this may feel like you have something to answer for. What do you say to that?

59:34You're free to go.

59:37Adam Kempenaar:Apparently that's what Chris Hansen would say to all these predators who would somehow, And the movie talks about this would stay there and talk to him rather than run out the door. But it wouldn't have mattered either way. He says you're free to go. Of course, they're not free to go as soon as they walk out the door. There are police there to apprehend them. But when I say deeply unsettling, I want to be clear that, yes, occasionally it's the behavior of predators like the guy we hear there on the phone in the in the trailer. But mostly it's the movie's project in a good way. It's the questions that it wants to and does pose that there are just no answers to, Josh.

1:00:20Adam Kempenaar:I mean, that you're going to be wrestling with. I said it lingers. The questions you're going to be wrestling with throughout and maybe for days after like I was. I can answer the question of whether or not the show was terrible. I think it was terrible. even if it did result in legitimate predators being caught, even if it did provide something in some cases cathartic for victims of sexual abuse. But the movie considers what it wants us to think about, what it poses as its main goal is to get us to think about and get some of the people on camera to think about is what happens when the camera turns off and we see when we have to see these people as people.

1:01:04Adam Kempenaar:As human beings. Can we do that? Should we do that? And there are two scenes. I will say. And I won't get into a lot of details. Because I want people who see the movie. To see this. And experience it for themselves. But there are two scenes in the movie Josh. Where you watch. Catchers of predators. Both pretty hard line. Both inured to this. When confronted. With their humanity. They soften. They do. They do see their humanity. And what I appreciate about the movie is that the documentarian, the director, Osit, he doesn't take those moments as clear victories. He doesn't try to simplify things.

1:01:49Adam Kempenaar:He actually reminds you, usually in these moments, that let's not forget that these people, these predators, did show up because they were going to have sex. They thought they were going to have sex with someone underage. And in one case, they brought alcohol because they thought they were going to have sex with a 14-year-old. Predators is a documentary that dares to question everything, including itself. And I think that's really bold about the project. So from the comfort of my TV, I can sit here as an enlightened liberal man and talk about how we need to see their humanity. But what if it was my child?

1:02:31Adam Kempenaar:Would I be what I really be feeling so generous? And I can't wait to discuss this movie with someone who's seen it. I haven't had that chance yet, Josh, because I am as much as I do appreciate the movie. And I do. I really recommend people see it. I'm very conflicted about the ending. It's not a spoiler because it's in the trailer. And I alluded to it earlier, but I didn't know it. I hadn't seen the trailer. I was waiting the whole movie. And I said to Sarah, who was watching it with me, like, when are we going to find out? The whole movie has been building to this. It has to be building to it.

1:03:04Adam Kempenaar:Are they going to interview Chris Hansen? They they have to confront Chris Hansen or they have to tell us that they tried to get Chris Hansen on camera and he refused to be interviewed. But if they don't, if we don't get the interview or we don't get the disclaimer, honestly, the movie is almost worthless because the whole movie has been in some way building up to it. Osa would be derelict in his duties as a documentarian, and the journalistic enterprise would be sunk here. Well, he gets him. He gets him. And the interview is entirely appropriate. I think the inquisition, if you will, is entirely appropriate.

1:03:43Adam Kempenaar:But how it concludes, how it concludes aesthetically, I feel icky about. I'm not sure I'm on board with the choices that OSIT makes. Again, something I would love to discuss with someone.

1:04:02Josh Larsen:So, I mean, this is grueling subject matter and, you know, someone who watches predators may not be in the mood to see something else along these lines, but the way you're talking about the humanity and the question of that in a reminds me of this documentary I saw way back, I think 2015 at Sundance called pervert park. and it was about a Florida trailer park that was basically founded to provide a place for registered sex offenders to live because their, their options are severely limited. You know, can't, can't live by schools. Can't, uh, because a condition of their parole. And it's a movie that's very much about, you know, that one aspect, it sounds like predators is partially interested in is what humanity might there be in people like this.

1:04:50Josh Larsen:Um, now this is on the other side of justice in this case. So it sounds like it's very different to that, to that end, but still interested in that question. So, so yeah, if, uh, if people are up for, um, thinking about these sorts of really difficult issues a little bit more, I'd also recommend pervert park. Okay.

1:05:08Adam Kempenaar:Predators is currently playing in limited release next week here on film spotting. We've got a top five inspired by our conversation about one battle after another with Leonardo DiCaprio. I think I've read this or heard this somewhere that it was a dream of his to get to work with Paul Thomas Anderson and certainly fans of PTA's work like I am and so many people are. And I know you are, Josh, as well. Well, it only seemed fitting that we finally got a big star like Leo working with Paul Thomas Anderson. So what are the actor director combos that we haven't had that we'd like to see? I should know the answer to this, because when I proposed this top five at a film spotting production meeting several weeks ago, I think I looked up or maybe on the call we looked up.

1:05:58Adam Kempenaar:We've done something similar to this before. I can't remember if we've done exactly this top five or something like it, but either way, certainly worth revisiting because it's been a while that we've done something like it. And I haven't started the work yet, but I'm excited to do it.

1:06:15Josh Larsen:Yeah, I'm struggling. Where do I start? Do I start with the directors or do I start with the actors? Yeah. Yeah. Right now I'm feeling like starting with the actors might be a bit more fun. Yeah. Because there, I can certainly think of five and I'm not going to name them here, but like five, you know, relatively new names and it doesn't have to be, it could be veterans we could go with. But right now I'm thinking about new names who I'm excited about where they're at in their career and thinking about where they might go. And, you know, pairing up with a top flight director is a way to, to kind of move up in, in your career.

1:06:54Josh Larsen:So I'm leaning towards that path, but yeah, I haven't really sat down to think about it much yet.

1:06:59Adam Kempenaar:As soon as you said it, I have to say my immediate thought was to start actor because I think I can build the director off of I can match the sensibility of the director to the performer. I know you can do the opposite, too. But for some reason, it feels more natural for me to to match the director to the actor.

1:07:20Josh Larsen:Doesn't this go back to the Del Toro conversation and maybe with Wes Anderson? Now, I think he's brilliant in Wes Anderson's The French Dispatch, but that allowed him to have, in that case, a little bit of the mournfulness that he can carry in some of his performances, whereas the Phoenician scheme was a little bit more prescriptive of what he needed to do. So, yeah, it's I don't know if I would have ever said Benicio del Toro, an actor I love, he needs to pair with Wes Anderson. I probably wouldn't have thought of that. I don't know if I would have thought with Paul Thomas Anderson either and would have missed out on one battle after another.

1:07:55Josh Larsen:But but yeah, it's yeah, it'll be an interesting experiment to conduct.

1:08:01Adam Kempenaar:Sam had a very good related prompt in the film spotting family discord and in the newsletter this week. He said, Paul Thomas Anderson can only make one more film and I'm going to knock on wood and hope that that doesn't happen. The star of the film. can't be anyone that he's ever worked with before. Who is that star? And I think I might take up that mantle for one of my five picks. Why not? I mean, I'd love to, I'd love to match. I'd love to do the DiCaprio PTA pairing that inspired the top five. Why not go ahead and use it for one of my picks? Yeah, I like it. I'll maybe steer away from that and let you have that one.

1:08:42Adam Kempenaar:Okay, thank you. You can go with Wes Anderson And we'll have the battle one battle about Anderson after another. You can send your actor director combo picks to feedback at filmspotting.net. And yes, we would love to share some on next week's show. Also next week results and your comments from the current deeply flawed and deeply difficult film spotting poll. I said, you know, it's actually not a deeply flawed poll. It's a really good one when it feels impossible to answer. and I will stall and procrastinate and do almost anything to avoid answering it. You agreed. The other way you know it's a really, really good poll is when the answers are almost evenly split.

1:09:30Adam Kempenaar:I have not looked at the results, Josh, in about five days. So it's possible that it has changed, that there's been a shift. But the last time I looked, it was about 33, 33, 33. And in fact, right now, the number one answer has taken a little bit more of a lead, but it's currently 36, 33, 30. Yeah. Think about that. That's deeply difficult. How close that is. Deeply difficult, not deeply flawed. Okay. You can still vote at filmspotting.net. And yes, we would love for you to leave a comment. We might share your thoughts on air if you'd like to see our current show schedule, some of the episodes we have planned, the reviews we have coming up, go to filmspotting.net and click on episodes.

1:10:17Josh Larsen:We want to keep you up to date on what they're doing on our sister podcast, the next picture show, looking at cinemas present via its past. It's part two of their till you drop pairing. So this week they're talking about the Stephen King adaptation, the long walk, which just came out previously. They set that conversation up by looking at Sidney Pollack's 1969 film. They shoot horses. don't they? That one featuring Jane Fonda. New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday, and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1:10:49Adam Kempenaar:I want to mention one more time, maybe we'll get another plug in, but at least one FilmSpotting family member posted in the Discord. They heard me plug this last week, Josh, and they must be somewhat in the area because they heard the promotion and said, that sounds great. I got to get a pass. I'm going to refocus. If you're anywhere in the vicinity of Iowa City, Iowa, Film Scene is having their fourth annual Refocus Film Festival celebrating the art of adaptation. It's October 9th through the 12th. And you can come see a live taping of a Film Spotting Top 5 segment Friday, October 10th, 4.30 p.m.

1:11:29Adam Kempenaar:That will be with me. And since I can't record with you, I'm going to bring on, you know, our great third wheel, our regular third wheel. Michael Phillips will be taping that with me. We are going to share our top five Iowa writers, basically grads of the famed Iowa Writers Workshop or people, people who were born in Iowa, the films that have been adapted from their works. One of the things I'll say, we haven't totally ruled this out yet. I guess I haven't made a ruling, but I think I know where I'm going to lean. What you have to also consider is what do you do with people who are famous for teaching at the Iowa Writers Workshop?

1:12:11Adam Kempenaar:Not that there's a lot of great film adaptations of his work, but if you go that route, it opens you up to all of Kurt Vonnegut's adaptations, for example, Josh. So, you know, there's different criteria you could include, but some great films. I mentioned last week the new Park Chanuk film is playing. The new film Train Dream starring Joel Edgerton is playing at the fest. The Zodiac Killer Project, new documentary from Charlie Shackleton, which is very good. Really interesting. Yeah, playing at the fest. So worth getting a pass if you're in the area. Please do check it out, refocusfilmfestival.org.

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1:13:20Josh Larsen:All right, let's embarrass ourselves with some Massacre Theater. This is where we perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last time, was this the video debut of Massacre Theater, Adam? I think there's an addition or two floating somewhere on video on the internet.

1:13:38Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, but really the official debut. And yes, you have me totally self-conscious now, but that's fine. We'll get to that. All right. Well, last time we massacred this scene. Smoke in the air. Rooster flares. That was close.

1:13:57Josh Larsen:We're out of flares, Bev.

1:14:04Josh Larsen:He's already on us.

1:14:09Josh Larsen:Ah, this is not good. Tom Cruise and Miles Teller in 2022's Top Gun Maverick, written by Eric Warren Singer, Aaron Kruger, and Christopher McQuarrie, and directed by Joseph Kaczynski. That massacre was part of our five years, five movie show a couple weeks back. We also had reviews of Spinal Tap 2 and the history of sound on that show. there is always a tie-in. So why that scene from Top Gun Maverick?

1:14:38Adam Kempenaar:Well, Alexa Debly has the answer. I believe the Massacre Theater was Top Gun Maverick. The tie-in would be a movie sequel that was released years, nay, decades after the original was released, as is the case with Spinal Tap 2. And I'm just going to put this out there so all the true tap heads get it. Are you sure it's Debly and not Dubbly? There you go, Josh. I'm sure they appreciated that.

1:15:05Josh Larsen:Yep. Here's David Allen who said, it's got to be Top Gun, Maverick. Here are the connections. One, like Spinal Tap 2, this is a sequel that came many years after its predecessor. Two, one could say Tom Cruise feels like a continuation of Robert Redford's dashing smile and swagger. I don't know. We may have to discuss on our upcoming top five Robert Redford movies, Adam. David Allen's third point, The Right Stuff, has some thematic crossover with the Top Gun movies. And I believe that came up on your list. You did. Adam, four. Glenn Powell's next vehicle is The Running Man, which, like Rear Window, is an examination of voyeur culture.

1:15:45Adam Kempenaar:Okay, Rear Window on my list. That's right. We close with Ron in Havertown, PA. You both went above and beyond on this massacre theater. I laughed out loud on hearing you both pretend to have masks on playing out the pivotal ending scene where Tom Cruise, Maverick and Miles Teller Rooster are in a dogfight against the nameless bad guys flying next gen fighters. Thank you for making my day. You're welcome, Ron. You're welcome, everyone. You know who is not welcome? All the people who just wrote in Top Gun, the original. It's not the original. It's the sequel, Josh. Of course. Just like Spinal Tap 2.

1:16:17Get with it.

1:16:18Josh Larsen:As our listeners said. Also, can you imagine, Adam, if we had a prop budget? Like how good we would have been if we had actual masks. Okay. Not just use our hands.

1:16:27Adam Kempenaar:Maybe next time. And yes, as at least one listener, one entrant pointed out, we did go with Cole for the name of Maverick, referencing Cole Trickle from Days of Thunder. We went with Andrew for Miles Teller's Rooster, a reference, yes, to Whiplash. Josh, reach into the not very brimming film spotting hat and pick out this week's winner. Our winner is David Zobel from Roswell, Georgia. Congratulations, David. Email feedback at filmspotting.net, and we will set you up with your very own Film Spotting t-shirt, Film Spotting tote bag, or trial membership to the Film Spotting family. Broadsheet journalists have described my impressions as stunningly accurate.

1:17:11Adam Kempenaar:Well, they're wrong. I've not heard you're Michael Caine, but I assume it would be something along the lines of, my name's Michael Caine. That is where you are so wrong. we move on now to this week's edition of massacre theater i think the tie-in is going to be pretty obvious here josh and we don't have any fancy sound effects that we need to employ here no no masks that we have to pretend to be putting on though producer sam picked a scene that does involve throwing our voices a bit. Multiple voices.

1:17:45Josh Larsen:Yeah. He's basically making us each play two characters. Yeah.

1:17:51Adam Kempenaar:He should know we struggle enough each playing a single character. That's correct. I struggle playing myself every week. How does he expect me to do this?

1:18:00Josh Larsen:Apparently, he thinks I've been about a month in the UK here, and I have a firm command of a British accent. But I'm up in Scotland. And it's totally different, Sam. I haven't been hearing people like this. I mean, come on.

1:18:16Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, this is going to be rough. It's going to be rough, but we're going to go for it. You are going to hear us attempt multiple voices in at least one instance, maybe two back to back. And we are going to change the names in a couple of cases as we are wont to do here on Massacre Theater. Josh, you started off. Are you ready? Yeah, let's do it. And action. Where are we?

1:18:47Josh Larsen:Canterbury, we're close. Anyone know if there's a hotel around here? What? Linda promised me a little bit of action. You still like it in the afternoon? What'd you do? Rob a train? Blow up a building? You told me he was suave.

1:19:05Adam Kempenaar:Wankers are drunk. He's suave. Should have seen him in the old days. when he was a real activist. You were the activist. I just wanted to get laid. One time, the police came to throw us out of our squat, and Dalton invited them up for coffee to negotiate. Only coffee was spiked with ketamine. And scene. See, I played an American. I think we got out alive. I played an American there. That was easy. I don't know that I performed otherwise. If you know what film we just massacred, Email the movie's title and your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net. Your deadline is Monday, October 13th.

1:19:43Adam Kempenaar:We'll select the winner randomly from all the correct entries. I'm expecting just a big, full film spotting hat and announce it in a couple of weeks. Josh, that's our show.

1:19:55Josh Larsen:If you want to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube, all as film spotting. I'm at those places also hanging out on blue sky as Larson on film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the film spotting family at film spotting family.com. You can listen early and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter from producer Sam monthly bonus episodes. Our latest just went out as well as access to the entire show archive for show t-shirts and other merch go to filmspotting.net slash shop in that film spotting archive you can

1:20:40Adam Kempenaar:get past paul thomas anderson conversations like our review of licorice pizza 853 phantom thread that was episode 664 inherent vice episode 517 the master was episode 415 there will be blood Episode 193, the more in-depth conversation was for its 10th anniversary, episode 658. And we talked about Magnolia on episode 752. That was part of our 9 from 99 series. And we just put that back in our feed a little from the archive episode just this past week. So you can find that available to all listeners in the main film spotting feed.

1:21:19Josh Larsen:Quick note, Adam, as you were going through that list, I meant to say while we were reviewing one battle after another and talking about the humor, Phantom Thread, you know, underrated for how funny it is. You're right. Very dry. Very dry, but quite hilarious.

1:21:33Adam Kempenaar:Yes. Almost any time Woodcock admonishes anyone is high comedy, right? Exactly. Yep. Okay. Streaming or out VOD, you can see Play Dirty. This is with Lakeith Stanfield and Keegan-Michael Key, written and directed by Shane Black. In order to score a major heist, an expert thief played by Mark Wahlberg must outsmart a South American dictator, the New York mob and the world's richest man. OK, I'm curious. The Lost Bus is out. Paul Greengrass has a new movie out, Josh. A man rescues a teacher and her students from a wildfire with Matthew McConaughey and America Ferreira. Huh. Been a while since we've heard from Mr.

1:22:14Adam Kempenaar:Greengrass. Obviously very interested in this one. anemone Daniel Day Lewis returns to the screen in son Ronan's feature directing debut hope to catch up with that one good boy as dark entities threaten his human companion a dog must fight to protect the one he loves most yes it's a horror movie Josh told from the perspective of the family dog IndieWire gives it four and a half stars saying one of the year's scariest movies and one that doubles as a tribute to the bond between people and their four-legged friends.

1:22:48Josh Larsen:This is killing me. I was going to try to fit this in, Adam. And then, as you know, and listeners and viewers probably can tell, got hit with a bug and have been down and out. So I had to take it off the viewing list. But man, come on. That sounds great. You know, you want to see that. Can you see that? Or is that one that maybe you can get a screen or two? I was going to ask for a screen or link, but maybe it'll get a release around these

1:23:13Adam Kempenaar:parts as well. Okay. Happy end. This is a feature debut from Japanese American director Neo Sora, a near future Japan braces for a devastating earthquake. Mitchell Bopre, our friend says, maybe the best looking film of the year also out limited is predators. The documentary recommended by me earlier in the show, golden eye is being re-released for its anniversary and very eager to see this one. Benny Safdie's solo directed The Smashing Machine. It's the story of MMA fighter Mark Kerr starring Dwayne Johnson. Hope to see that one, but next week we are planning our top five actor-director combos we'd like to see.

1:23:55Adam Kempenaar:If you've got a pairing you want us to consider or you just want us to read on air, send it our way.

1:24:02Josh Larsen:Feedback at filmspotting.net Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Dessau and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at wbez.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1:24:26Adam Kempenaar:This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:24:47Adam Kempenaar:FilmSpotting is listener supported. Join the FilmSpotting family at FilmSpottingFamily.com and get access to ad-free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and for the first time, all in one place, the entire FilmSpotting archive going back to 2005. That's FilmSpottingFamily.com.

1:25:08you