The Next Picture Show’s 500th Episode

26:28I'm forgetting. Red River. Red River. Yes. You know, it's just, you know, the the vistas, it does feel visually like it is calling back to an earlier era of film as well. Not just like the actual events of our world at that time. One other aspect, I think, of it technically being such a short time period, a 20 year gap is I feel like this is maybe one of the more unsentimental looks at the 50s that I've seen in terms of especially in terms of sex and sexuality. You know, there just isn't any of that sort of 80s reconstitution of everything that led to things like Blue Velvet, you know, scraping at the dirty undersurface of an idealized suburban neighborhood.

27:13And, you know, the callback to the version of the 50s that we've made up in our mind. This is just a very, I don't know, kind of like plain spoken and realistic kind of setting. It really took me aback, that first shot of two teenagers necking in their car and the girl's got her top off and he's got one of her bare breasts in his hand. And I was just like, wait a minute. You know, it's just it's so rare to see that kind of casual sexuality in movies today. And if we were making a movie, any movie set in the 50s today, you wouldn't see casual toplessness like that. But the way this movie approaches sex in particular just seems like so of its time in terms of kind of like practicality.

28:02And again, just so sad. There are some people having really awful sex in this movie. That bed is so squeaky. Oh, that bed is so squeaky. And they both look so uncomfortable about it. But even more so, there's just sort of a sense that nobody has ever taught any of these women that sex should be pleasurable. And nobody has ever taught any of these men anything whatsoever. So sex is always a process of the woman looks uncomfortable. The man climbs on top. They both try not to look at each other. And then there's some wiggling. And then they're both very, very uncomfortable of what they've just done.

28:39So I think Ruth and Sonny figure it out as they go along. I feel like you see Ruth kind of blossom and turn from like, you know, I don't know how old Cloris was here. I think the character was supposed to be in her 30s, but she's 40. Okay. Well, yeah, that's right. 40. It was an itchy age, I think is what, yeah. But like, you know, she looks, she just looks much older and much like worn out. And then she's kind of revived by this affair. You could just, you know, she, Leechman just looks so much more vibrant. And, you know, you get the feeling that they figured something out, you know, in the bedroom, however, you know, awkward their relationship might be to the people around them, even though everyone knows about it.

29:23I guess given the complete lack of like attempt to instruct him in any way that we see in that first encounter or even ease his discomfort, especially with the squeaky bed, just did not lead me to hopes for that. You look at the sexuality of something like The Graduate and how it approaches a relationship between an older experienced woman and a younger man. And there's that feeling of instruction, of something forbidden and maybe inappropriate, but also attempting and tantalizing, but also just sort of an opportunity for a young man to learn. And compared to that, this just sort of feels like, you know, she's carrying out sex as she's learned it in this just incredibly dry and depressing environment.

30:08I feel like that blossoming comes from attention and connection more than, you know, them necessarily having achieved any kind of satisfaction in the sack. Well, here's something. one of the things that just strikes me in this movie every time i watch it but i this time is like when leecham's character says when he's when he when suddenly is saying you know you must miss coach you must look forward to the season setting so you can spend more time with them and and she says my god you don't know a thing about it do you and i was to me that's just sort of like she's talking about life right i was just talking about how you the how you know their marriage is soured and you know a lot of marriages you know do and but one thing that that bardana i haven't read the book i really should one these days but one thing bogdanovich suggests is that coach is gay yeah which i came across that fact too yeah i never picked up on that at all watching this yeah i think it's more from the book maybe than in the movie but um but yeah i i think that you know talking about sexuality in this movie it kind of goes hand in hand with this movie's view of marriage which there is not a really successful or happy marriage in this movie and it almost feels like sex is something that stops happening when you get married there you know and jc is certainly like kind of positioning marriage as something that you know has to happen in order for there to be sex but it's all removed from the idea of desire and you know like people you know all these characters are sort of chasing the idea of desire and to the extent that they you know achieve it or pleasure as a result of it is like outside of marriage, you know, and I think we do, I think Ruth and Sunny do get there.

31:51We don't see them actually experience like a sexual connection like that. But I think, you know, her wearing his shirt and them, you know, kind of like being on the floor casually together, like I extrapolated them out that out to like, like you said, keep them figuring it out, you know. But again, it happens like outside of a context where marriage is even a question, you know, and I think just the idea of the nuclear family is like entirely is the other thing that has like died in this town, you know, like neither Sonny nor Duane have both of their parents around sort of the only traditional family structure we see is the Pharaohs, but you know, that's a big old mess, you know, in its own way.

32:35So it kind of feels like, again, to go back to the time period of this sort of that classic idea of the 50s nuclear family is also just deteriorated and wasted away in this movie. I mean, it just kind of feels like nothing is left in this town. Nothing is holding together. No institution, no relationship, no sense of community, no connection. That dreadful scene at the end with the trucker and a bunch of people like standing around Billy's body. You get the impression as they're talking about him, you know, the out of towner who has just killed a child and doesn't feel guilty about it. And the rest of the community just kind of standing there shrugging and saying, you know, well, you know, he was always he was always dumb and slow and we don't really know what he was doing out in the middle of the road.

33:29Like it's no big deal. I think that's where maybe you just get a sense that there's no human feeling left in this town anymore. You know, if I think that's where Sonny gets that sense, too. I think that's like the final straw for him. Oh, for sure. Which, you know, he and he pushes back against it. You know, he comes in with this level of of emotion and anger against their complete inhumanity. But I mean, in the end, if like if a small town can't rally around one of their own, what you know, who whose life was carelessly lost if if they can't if a small uh texas town can't rise up against an outsider that killed one of their own like what even is this town anymore that's a good point i i would make somewhat of a distinction here because i think you're absolutely right about the town as this organism but i think that the film is also has so many moments of great humanity where characters as individuals you know show each other some mercy and some uh sympathy and affection i mean obviously you know i think the the key scene being uh that last scene that we get with uh sunny and ruth where sunny you know is about to leave town and he gets to the city limits and comes back and sees her and she's of course furious at at him for you know abandoning her and and uh and then kind of start slowly kind of comes to recognize that that he is feeling a degree of pain that uh that she recognizes and the scene kind of takes on this other tone and then and then i think also you get a you know on a smaller scale i think the scene when uh jc returns home from losing her virginity to her mother's lover and like there's a there's a certain amount of care that her mother shows her at that moment of kind of knowing what that feels like you know again it's it's all it's all incredibly sad but at least there's a certain amount of of warmth that's present in the film still okay wait back up i i don't think she loses her virginity to abilene like they're first of all we see her going like back to the hotel with duane and saying that you know she still doesn't think he did it right she should he shouldn't be proud of himself but he seems pretty smug and she needed to lose her virginity in order to go be with bobby so that she goes to be with Bobby, but then eventually he leaves.

35:52But I think we're meant to take from her smugness that she's been with him for a little while before he runs off. Oh, okay. I don't think she's losing virginity to Abilene. I mean, it's still a pretty upsetting scenario, virgin or not. Yeah. That said, when she does have sex with Abilene, I wish there was a little more grace from him because, again, this is somebody who, you know, is coming to the table, the pool table, as it were, with sexual experience and with sexual experience with her mother, who if there's anybody in this movie that one would think would demand pleasure out of sex, it would be her mom.

36:31And yet he really treats her like a wooden doll and she responds like a wooden doll. It's again, just like a breakdown of social norms and human feeling. I certainly, I mean, I agree with you about that last scene between Sonny and Ruth, which it's just incredible to watch the journey she goes on during that encounter while he stays in the same place the entire time, physically, emotionally, mentally, just, you know, inert as she travels through all of the different steps on her personal journey through the stages of grief over their relationship, I think. And the fact that she's then able to come around and, you know, take his hand when he takes hers is a moment of sweetness, but it's such a pyrrhic moment of sweetness, just given everything that she says that's true and all the water under the bridge.

37:23I think there are moments of human connection. I think we see, you know, Sonny's delight at J.C. reaching out to him, even if she's doing it for all the wrong reasons. There is just over and over kind of a little spark left in him of friendship for for duane uh love for jacy uh hope for ruth he he keeps trying to reconnect to people grief for billy anger at those drivers like almost everything has died in this town and he hasn't and maybe that's the ultimate tragedy this movie is by the end he's so broken down because there's just so little left that responds to that spark in him i i also want to highlight an earlier scene, which is when Genevieve welcomes Sonny back into the diner and gives him a hamburger after Sam bans them for, you know, messing with Billy that night.

38:19And, you know, it's just sort of the forgiveness that Genevieve and then by extension, Sam gives him and sort of the recognition of him having messed up and realizing he's messed up and like recognizing this moment of growth in this young man and rewarding it, I guess. And I kind of feel like the last scene with Ruth is a much sadder mirror of that scene, that recognition of a young man sort of facing his own failures. Oh, man. Jenny, you and I have talked about the experience of getting emotional over structure or just over quality. I'm getting a little emotional thinking about that Sam moment because it's just it's so well done you know there isn't a big confrontation he basically just says your band get out you don't have access to the any of the community things that I run which is all of them anymore that's a really tough that's a tough band I gotta say oh it's it's it's really like just realizing how completely they could be shut out of the life of the town and then the fact that Sonny comes back not to protest to that but kind of to see Billy again.

39:29And then the way Sam is ready to kick him out. And then he just looks at Billy and Billy is still smiling at Sonny. And Sonny has done the taking his hat and turning it around backwards thing. And Billy responds to that with the warmth he always does. And Sam just very clearly, like without any dialogue, sees in that moment, whatever I was angry about, Billy isn't angry about it. Like Billy still loves and trusts this other boy. And if I cut him out of the community and and separate him from billy i'm punishing billy for what sunny and the boys did and i can't do that and then he just says your sandwich is getting cold the thing about sam generally is that you obviously kind of holding the town together financially i mean in the sense that he's got these you know he's got these whatever vitality he could claim to have is because these businesses that he owns and keeps open but also he's also the glue uh you know emotionally as well and and you know i you think about a moment like that or a moment when he gives duane and sonny a little bit of money uh and some some good advice for the little trip to mexico i mean he he's able to just see people in a deep way like really understand where their head is at and and kind of respond accordingly like he he like like that gesture you know, I think speaks to his, you know, insight, you know, into how these boys are feeling at this specific moment in their lives.

40:58It's also just a very, you know, giving you some money to make sure you have a good trip is also just a very dad move. And given what we see of, you know, the relationships that those boys have with their families, the relationships families have in general. Sam stepping in as kind of an everybody's dad figure in general just kind of leads us back to the point where, you know, when he dies, the town loses its not just its central figure, but kind of its father figure. I was thinking this while watching it this time, is that like, this actually is a really good movie for us to have named ourselves after because so much of this movie is just built around like the relationship between the old generation and the new generation you know like obviously it's a story about these young kids but i feel like all of the most meaningful scenes the ones we're all talking about are between the older generation and the younger generation and maybe the older generation you know recognizing the echoes between them but also sort of like the sense of something is being lost in the new generation or in the younger generation i don't know i love it like you know jc and her mom it's like the like a classic film and a new release yeah those two right uh lots of connections between those two right good good contrast and then and then experiences that mirror each other and sunny and sam you know that's a good pairing you know lots of connections there he did it yeah see i i was just thinking in terms of yeah this is a very appropriate movie for like the death of an era and what comes next for the people involved.

42:38This is a pretty trenchant movie to have named ourselves after. Which brings me to this question. Was it a good idea for us to name our film site after an editing process where an image disappears and to name our podcast after a movie where the only theater in town shuts down? No. What does it say about us? A dissolve isn't something disappearing. It's something transitioning into the next stage. Yeah, exactly. what's another what's another what's another what's another word for death transitioning well and okay i'm i'm i'm going i'm going to be firm that like that i think this this is not as cynical a connection as uh we are making it out to be because you know the in the end sunny and they do go see a movie together and it's a movie they've seen before you know good good movie yeah I've seen it here before, you know, and they're, they do connect at the movies, you know, uh, and repeatedly and it's not necessarily even about the quality of the movie that they're seeing.

43:41It's just the shared experience of the movie. So I think it is a great choice on our parts. You know, the behind the scenes details for the making of this movie, uh, is that Bob Donovan said that, that he, mcmurdy doesn't like movies uh and in the novel it was like some some crappy b western and he you know bogdanovich wanted it to be something really good so that's why it's red river in the film well uh the last picture show is available for digital rental on apple tv amazon and weirdly no place else it's also on criterion dvd and blu-ray we'll be right back with a game

44:29All right. So we would normally wrap up our episode about a classic film with feedback, but this isn't any old episode. So we're doing something else. Genevieve, let me pass the mic over to you on this one. So those of you who have been with us since the Dissolve days may recall that on the podcast we did at the Dissolve, the cleverly named the Dissolve podcast, we would frequently engage in some games, trivia-based games. And back in those days, we were all like sitting around a table together, you know, and we had these lovely barnyard buzzers that we used to ring in for the game. And so in honor of our very first podcast together, we have not only brought back a game, we have brought back the barnyard buzzers, a fresh set of barnyard buzzers.

45:16So can everyone please check in? Scott? Okay, this is I Am a Cow. Here we go. Tasha? I'm not saying what I am. If you can't get it from the sound. I want everybody to be sure to hear that sound because they might not hear it again because I'm terrible at these games. All right. And, of course, Keith? So a little behind-the-scenes detail. Genevieve ordered these for us. I drove over to Scott to drop off his, and he's taking Tasha's, and I'm like, well, I need to choose one. I realized I always chose. I had forgotten this until I looked at it. I was like, no, I have a favorite. I always chose the horse so I have now the horse again so you should maybe specify like we always refer to these as the barnyard buzzers I assume that this is a brand name like the the box sitting on the floor behind me is completely unmarked you know it might have come from like any warehouse anywhere it's as anonymous as possible but I assume that you call them the barnyard buzzers because that's like what they what they are on the listing when you buy them that's what they were when i bought them the first time and then when i looked them up for this uh i wrote in barnyard buzzers and this is what came up um so but i think it's like the same ones they are very much the same ones but but they came in like an eight pack right so like the original additional barnyard buzzers for people to potentially buzz in with i think like the generic name is just like learning aid or something like classroom learning aid oh geez you know what really helps me learn i would love to have like yeah just i wish this were you're almost heading towards the story about having gotten these on the black market like black market barnyard buzzers that would have been pretty cool like like like you got them on the dark web somehow what whatever chinese factory is churning these out like is very clearly using the same pattern because i i mean i remember the rooster was red previously and this has to be the same the exact same like very simple line art cartoon of a rooster on it.

47:17I definitely recognize Scott's simple smiling cow. And I recognize Keith's buzzer stance too. He always held it right there. But that means that we are ready to play a game. I have created a game based on this podcast, on the history of our podcast. I have scoured through 499 episodes to come up with an array of questions so um bear with me uh i i tried to make this difficult but not too difficult so i'm i and i am i'm aware that none of our memories are what they once were but um hopefully hopefully we'll be able to squeeze a point or two out of out of each of you so everyone ready barnyard buzzer locked and loaded locked and loaded all right so we're gonna mine is mine is cocked and loaded

48:15all right so we're gonna have a few different rounds here and for this first round i will ask you a question i will give you all five seconds to buzz in and answer the question for two points if no one buzzes in then i will give you multiple choice options and if you get it for that if you get the multiple choice then you get one point make sense so you have five you have five seconds to answer off the top of your head for two points and then you can try again with multiple choice for one point okay first question what is the oldest classic film we have covered on this podcast tasha i'm gonna guess it might be carnival of souls no it is not yeah tasha didn't we do the original frankenstein at one i and didn't i pronounce it frankenstein like every single time uh is it frankenstein i truly don't know frankenstein frankenstein it is it is not frankenstein uh tasha sky all right invisible man nope oh my god we haven't done any silence all right i'm gonna get i'm gonna give you guys multiple choice now a frankenstein b king kong c m d the thin man tasha of those four if it isn't frankenstein i think king kong is the earliest it is not You know, I said nobody was going to hear this rooster again, and then I buzzed in like three times and been wrong every time.

49:44Am I accruing negative points? So it's The Thin Man. Guys, it's M. M is the oldest movie on that. I guess M would be oldest, older. M predates Frankenstein by a few months. M is 1931, right? Yeah. Yep. M was in May of 1931, and Frankenstein was in November of 1931. Wow, that's really hard. Holy cow. So in just three months It's really hard to crap out as badly as we did on that We just literally guess everything but Em I'm so excited about The Visible Moon I'm taking a while We've got to do some silence at some point I can't believe we haven't It's kind of hard to come up with clips for a silent film This is true Yeah, that opening montage is difficult When it's just some rollicking piano music And then dead air Alright, moving on to the next question Let's hope this goes a little better among our classic films what has been the most frequent release year five seconds to buzz in wow keith i'm just shot in the dark i'm gonna say 1972 no the year i was born um just to clarify once again we're not getting negative points for

50:59tasha uh wasn't it 1955 that scott wrote up for like the greatest movie year of all time for the dissolve i did but i don't know if we i don't know if we ever if we cover that we've covered that uh as much from that from that uh year i think i did you know i think i did 72 for that actually i'm thinking for the ad club actually now that now that i think about it okay we have covered one we have covered one film from 1955 and we have covered three films from 1972 okay i made a whole spreadsheet guys i'm curious oh my god i want to see the spreadsheet I'd give away too much if you said how many films we covered from this year in question.

51:36I can do that, or I can give you multiple choice. Yeah, let's do that. The most frequent release year, was it 1982, 2001, 1973, or 1999? Scott. Which one? That, 82? No. Genevieve, you just broke my heart. You are saying that movies released in 2001 are now considered classic movies? I'm going to say 1999. Nope. The subject of a book called The Best Movie Year Ever, but apparently not by our standards. Wow. Tasha, would you care to guess? It's one of the other two. What was the 1980s? Was it 82? I guessed that one. That was wrong. What are my remaining choices? 1973 or 2001? Knowing us, I'm going to say 2001.

52:30It is 2001. With a heavy heart. How many and what films? We have covered 11 films from 2001. I'm not going to tell you what they are, though, because they might come up in other questions. Wow. 11. Tasha is on the board, barely, with one point. Oh, my God. This is going great, guys. I don't even like this point. 2001 classic movies. This is like when I'm in the grocery store and I hear a 90s song and then some DJ comes on and says, you know, classics 101 playing the classics. I mean, if it makes you feel better, 1999, we did 10. So we only have one fewer from 1999. So at least, you know. Oh, yeah.

53:14Well, that's two years older. I think in another 10 years, 1999 will catch up because there's a ton from that year. All right. Next question. which of our pairings had the shortest span of time in between the classic and new film Scott John Carter that is it John Carter and the Martian oh nice one of our very first pairings it was very controversial for us to call that a classic film looking back we probably could have done we could have done better I was a John Carter defender but yeah that was a bit of a stretch I think we just wanted to talk about John Carter of Mars. It was a fun discussion.

53:56It was. And for fun, I will share the other ones on the multiple choice and how far apart they were. Because they're the next smallest span of time. Dogtooth and Kajillionaire had 11 years between them. Rachel Getting Married and Shiva Baby have 12 years between them. And Under the Skin and No One Will Save You has 10 years between them. Oh, wow. So not even close, really, to John Carter and the Martian at a three-year separation. Oh, my three years. Oh, my God. I'm proud of myself. All right. Now, this next question, you can get a lot of points. This is a two-part question. If you answer the first part correctly, you have first shot at accruing bonus points with the second part of the question.

54:39Okay? Part one. Which director is responsible for the most films covered on the podcast, both classic and recent? I got Spielberg given that description. Nope. Hmm. Steven Spielberg, to clarify. Nope. You're close, though. Okay. A, Bong Joon-ho. B, Spike Lee. C, Steven Spielberg. Or D, Steven Soderbergh. Tasha? Well, only one of those is close to Steven Spielberg and Steven Soderbergh. That is it. It is Steven Soderbergh. So now, Tasha, you get first chance at the bonus points question, which for one point each, name as many of the nine Soderbergh films we've covered as you can. Oh, my God. If you guess incorrectly or go five seconds without guessing another film, it opens up to the rest of the group to buzz.

55:31Ready? And go. I know we did Presence recently. Didn't we do Logan Lucky? We did. Did we do Sex, Lies and Videotape? nope you're out all right all right Keith and Scott I was gonna get a video tape as my first guess all right okay the limey yes that's three ocean's 11 yes that's four I got five seconds huh but I'll only keep talking it's fine right uh did we do king of the hill did we do king of the hill we did not oh we should do that someday it's a good movie can I can I do some stuff Yep, yep, Scott, hit me. Magic Mike XXL? Oh, Magic Mike's last dance. Yes, I'll give it to you. And then also Aaron Brockovich?

56:23Nope, we never did Aaron Brockovich. Does it come back around to me? No, I think for the sake of... Sorry, I've got a very angry cow right now. I thought we did some sort of thing with that and maybe the Todd Haynes environmental. No, that's why I wanted to buzz back in, because didn't we do I'm Not There? But I mean, connecting with the Haynes, though, which is more recent. Anyway. No, we talked. I believe we entertained that, but we never actually did it. Holy cow. So in the interest of moving on, I'm going to call it there, but the ones you missed are Contagion. Oh, of course. Oh, of course.

57:06Very famous one. Nothing that happened during COVID counts for anything. Nobody's expected to remember anything that happened during a two-year time period. High Flying Bird. Oh, of course. Kimmy. Kimmy. Damn it. And Black Bag. I should have focused on the new stuff, not the old stuff. That was silly. All right. All right. So current score. Bonus points helped a little. Tasha's in the lead with four. Scott is at two. And Keith is also at two. but i have three i have three i buzzed in for one without going to multiple choice and then i did one of the soda books all right now we're moving into around there are multiple answers to the each of these questions you get one point per correct answer once you buzz you have 10 seconds to answer as many as you can and then it opens back up to the others to buzz we have done three pairings based on a new tv show we have one point for each tv show you can name it's been a while

58:08Westworld. Yes. Correct. And then also a new television show called... Nope. I got nothing. I got Westworld, though. All right. We've done three? Yep. And it's been a while. I think we kind of let that idea fall by the wayside. Not that long. Keith, you should be getting one of these. No.

58:32maybe westworld was the only one of those that i was on all right yay calling it time wait wait no we did uh we did the the uh lord of the rings tv show we did do the rings of power rings of power right rings of power so that's that's two all right i'll give it to you even though time is very expired but sorry slipped okay this is like old people playing a game show this is like very slow all right the the last one was the last of us which we paired with children of men oh yeah oh that was really oh wow uh i would if anyone had guessed uh watchman i would have given it to you on a technicality because we also did a bonus uh like third episode with our dark knight and the joker pairing of the watchman tv show oh wow what a good idea i'm so proud of that version of us from the past that i don't remember at all all right next question there are quotes from three films in our intro music for one point each name those films i haven't actually listened to a live episode in a long time you know what i don't know that i i could i could i think i could name all three quotes but i don't think so so do i get any bonus points uh one is from uh magnolia correct um the graduate where he goes we're going to talk about art oh no that's film spotting never mind what kind of a show are you running here damn that's all i got all right the other two are uh gray gardens and vertigo yes it's great but i i love her intro but i haven't listened to it in so long it's almost like you guys don't listen to it every single week when you edit the podcast that's true it's true all right well scott has pulled into the lead with five points and Keith and Tasha are tied at four.

1:00:41I'm almost afraid to ask this question, but... Do these, if they go up in complexity, we're doomed. This is pretty complex, but I do want to ask it because I think it's an interesting data point. There are three directors who have made more than one feature film who have had all of those films be part of appearing on this podcast. So we have covered 100 % of their filmography and they have made more than one movie. Name those directors. There are three of them. that we covered all of their movies all of their feature films all their feature films made more than one wow that is interesting data point you're correct it has to be at least three films that they've made no just more than one more than one at least so at least two there aren't a lot of like two film wonders out there that i can think of i have an educated guess Scott?

1:01:32Gerwig? Nope. Oh, really? Shoot, I should have guessed the other one that I knew. Thought I knew. Damn it. What do we not do with Gerwigs? All right. I'm cutting you guys off there. Oh, no. Can I guess one? Just now that I know I eliminated myself by buzzing. Is Emerald Fennel one of them? Nope. We didn't do Salt Burn? We never did Salt Burn. No. All right. They are Jordan Peele. Okay. Oh, sure. celine song okay who has only done who has only done two films and emma seligman who has also only done two films wow isn't that interesting yeah that would have been a real pull yeah i i thought i thought you guys might get jordan peele yeah that would have been good i was stuck on koganada uh and trying to remember what his first film was because i i knew it was you know much beloved to some people here but i don't think we ever did columbus columbus yeah we didn't do the big beautiful journey either.

1:02:28Yeah, but that's only been out for three seconds. Does it count? Big old beautiful journey. It counts. Well, this is a multiple choice question. Multiple choice only for one point and is hopefully an easier version of that last question. So, taking those three filmmakers in our 100 % club out of the equation as well as, again, filmmakers with only one film. Which filmmaker has had the highest percentage of their overall filmography discussed on the show? A, David Lowery. B, Akiva Schaffer. C, Chloe Zhao. Or D, Greta Gerwig. Oh my God. Tasha? I'm going to go with David Lowery. Nope. We've only done four out of his eight.

1:03:10Eight feature films. Oh my goodness. Wow. I'm just trying to think of percentages here. Keith? I'm going to say Gerwig because I think we've done two thirds of... we've done three fourths three out of four and it is it is Gerwig we have done Little Woman, Lady Bird and Barbie Movie and we're not counting Nights and Weekends when she co-directed I guess but yeah yeah man see I know trivia I know trivia I was there for that I was there for that the last answer I just didn't realize that we didn't we were there for all of this that's the whole point of this this game next question this requires less memory on your guys' part more vibes.

1:03:54Another multiple choice. Which of the following pairings has the biggest differential in Rotten Tomatoes score between the old and new film? A. Rear Window and the Woman in the Window. B. Jaws and the Meg. C. Jurassic Park and Jurassic World Dominion. Or D. The Brady Bunch Movie and Baywatch. Keith. I think it's A because everyone hated Woman in the Window. It is A. Yeah, that's my guess too. Rear Window has 99 % on Rotten Tomatoes and Woman in the Window has 25%. Ooh, it's actually higher than I thought it was going to be. All right. Keith pulls ahead. Hey, feels like old times. All right. Yeah.

1:04:41I can't remember any movies that we've ever covered, but I do remember Keith running away with every game we've ever played. All right. All right. Well, now we are moving into the lightning round. This is the Rotten Tomatoes lightning round. And I would like to issue a disclaimer up front. I know we do not love Rotten Tomatoes. In this house, we observe Metacritic, but Metacritic does not have as many reviews of older films. You know what, though? I am a top critic on Rotten Tomatoes, and Metacritic does not host the reveals reviews. So I have switched my allegiance. I'm very pro Rotten Tomatoes right now.

1:05:18All right. All right. Well, then screw that disclaimer. Just out of curiosity, are we all top critics on Rotten Tomatoes? I'm a top critic. No, you're not a top? Tasha Robinson? No? No, I am. Yeah, we are. But Metacritic also hosts my reviews. What? Sorry, the reveal. They just got to get with the newsletter revolution here that we are leading, that Keith and I are up front on. All right. So this one you are not going to need the buzzers for because we are just going around the horn. Okay. What I'm going to do is this is dedicated to our director-director pairings, where we do two films by the same director.

1:05:53And I am going to give you the two films in that pairing by the same director, and you tell me which has the higher Rotten Tomatoes score. Oh, fun. Okay. All right. Keith, since you're in the lead, we'll start with you. From our Sam Raimi pairing, does Army of Darkness or Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness have a higher Rotten Tomatoes score? I'm going to say based on, I think Army of Darkness got fairly mixed reviews at the time. So I think it's going to be Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. You are correct. That's good. That's good stuff, Keith. All right. Good deduction.

1:06:25Bad result, though. Yeah. And it was close. Army of Darkness has 69 % and Multiverse of Madness has 73%. That's not as nice. All right. Scott, moving on to you. Our Baz Luhrmann pairing. Okay. Moulin Rouge or Elvis? Oh, no. I think Elvis. You are correct. I think critics have gotten softer between Rue and Rue and Elvis. I mean, they've definitely gotten more numerous. Yeah. There's that too. All right. Tasha, from our David Cronenberg pairing, the fly or the shrouds? Oh, now see, I'm going to feel like such a sucker if I go with my heart here and it turns out that I should have learned from like the last two examples but i i think the shrouds critics were kind of like pro on it but also kind of baffled whereas the fly was was met with just such enthusiasm i'm i'm gonna say the fly on this one you are correct the fly has 93 to the shrouds 76 yeah i didn't see it was it seemed like a trick question just to ask it was like i pretty much people like the fly the shrouds found a little more mixed.

1:07:41All right. This one will also probably be pretty easy. But Keith, back to you. From our M. Night Shyamalan pairing, we've done a few of them, but this one was Unbreakable and Glass. I mean, I know Unbreakable wasn't as warmly received as Sixth Sense, but it definitely, I think it got better reviews overall than Glass. You are correct. Unbreakable has 72, Glass is 37. I don't care about Glass, so. Yeah. All right, Scott, our Nicole Hall of Center pairing. Yay. Lovely and amazing versus You Hurt My Feelings. Oh, wow. That's tougher. That is tough. I actually just wrote about You Hurt My Feelings in reference to Pluribus, believe it or not.

1:08:27But I'm going to say, boy, this is really tough because I think they're probably pretty damn close. I'm going to say You Hurt My Feelings. You are correct. that's close though right they're tight tight not as close as i would have thought uh lovely and amazing is 86 to you hurt my feelings 95 oh wow i think i think respect for her just generally has has climbed as people have gotten to know her like lovely amazing was just like was a pretty early one from her yeah all right tasha this is a gimme from our pixar pairing i will take any gimme that you can give me this this is not a director this is a pixar pairing toy story versus the good dinosaur okay let me let me let me let me go back historically think about like different aspects of this like you know leading critics uh like like believe what i remember about the reviews my own feelings at the time yes we can move on no you gotta say it uh toy story okay yes slightly i am i am assuming like one or two points higher than good toy story has 100 on rotten tomatoes to the good dinosaur 76 wow that's generous to the good dinosaur keith are a george miller pairing mad max versus furiosa regional mad max huh okay okay i think it's gonna be the whole like more review i know furiosa wasn't as warmly received as as fury road but i think mad max wasn't really taken all that seriously with the initial reviews but then rotten tomato does like retrospective reviews oh that's tough this is tough i'm gonna go with my gut and say that furiosa's rating is higher uh even if mad max is more revered as a classic film you are correct you are correct furiosa has 90 to mad max's 89 oh wow that's really tight yeah impressive all right scott yes our chris smith pairing oh okay nice american movies versus fire wow damn the fire i'm gonna say fire because there was always like people are making fun of those guys in american movie american movie has 94 to fires 93 ow dang nabbit all right and last last one tasha i actually don't think you're on this pairing unfortunately but uh you might still be able to figure it out uh our jonathan demi concert movie pairing Stop Making Sense versus Justin Timberlake and the Tennessee Kids.

1:11:05See, based on how these questions have been going, it feels like the margins have been narrowing. So I'm going to assume that this one is like half a point between them or less. But the fact that Stop Making Sense recently got a retrospective release, like an anniversary release, that would have been an excuse for a lot of current people who didn't review it back in the day to review it from the perspective of this is an all-time classic makes me think Stop Making Sense. You are correct. Although both have 100 % on Rotten Tomatoes, but Stop Making Sense has 70 reviews to Justin Timberlake's 14 reviews.

1:11:45So when I said they were only half a point apart from each other, I was actually more accurate than I realized. That's great. Congratulations on doing the math on those narrowing windows. I bet not many people disliked either one of those. I mean, I like the Timberlake movie. I do. It's not making sense. I think what we revealed here is how flawed a metric Rotten Tomatoes is because I think if you actually go on the... It doesn't do a good job of measuring passion. And I think that's true of a lot of these. Well, I think that there were only 14 reviews but just like in terms of like but even stuff like like if you were to say i wonder what metacritic would say was the difference between those two films i think it would be more significant because because people feel more passionately in favor but everyone likes both films you know which they should they're good films all right so that was the round tomatoes lightning round uh that that was interesting keith is still in the lead with nine points And Scott and Tasha are tied at seven apiece.

1:12:46Oh, man. So now we have individual bonus questions. One for each of you. Each were three points. These are tailored to you specifically. Oh, wow. So I'm going to start with Scott. Scott, which of the following Martin Scorsese films have we not covered on the show? A. Taxi Driver. B. Silence. C. Casino. D. Rolling Thunder Review of Bob Dylan's Story. Okay. okay go through those again please taxi driver silence casino and rolling thunder review okay we've definitely done shoot have we done it um i know we've done some rolling thunder review i can't i can say that that that has happened why it feels like we've done casino maybe holy cow taxi driver i've seen yes surely some surely we've had it some occasion to do that i'm gonna say casino That is wrong.

1:13:44We have done Casino. No. What's the one we haven't done? Silence. Okay. Shoot. I thought maybe we would have found something to pair it with when it came out and we just ignored it. We paired Casino with Hustlers. Oh, okay. There you go. Thought about that. There you go. Okay. Shoot. I didn't know my own guy. Yep. All right. Keith, which of the following... Thank you. which of the following nicholas cage films have we not covered on the show wait wait wait why is keith's question regarding nicholas cage it's still in stores age of caged you know there was a rumor that it was pulled from the shelves you couldn't buy it anymore that's not true you can buy it banned in 13 states so far but the rest you can still you can still get it or get it through the mail and and to our japanese listeners there's a japanese version coming out at some point uh i've been i've been sending them corrections and things like that so oh that's super cool all right well let's see if you can tell me which of the following nicholas cage films we have not covered on the show a raising arizona b adaptation c long legs d the wicker man all right i know we did long legs yes looking okay i know we did raising arizona and what was that leaves you can't check with her on these things you just have to say what it is the other one right what was the other uh adaptation we've never done the wicker man we've done the original wicker man yeah not the nicholas cage one yeah there would be no really absolutely no reason to do a pairing with the neil labute uh All right.

1:15:25All right. Tasha. But the memes. All right. Let me guess. Is this Pixar? It is. Which of the following Pixar films have we not covered on the show? The Incredibles 2, Inside Out 2, Toy Story 2, or Finding Dory? Toy Story 2. Correct. Damn. Yeah. I feel like if we, like, I know we covered the original Toy Story as a pairing. And like the more recent ones would have been within our window. But I, the kind of circumstances that would be necessary for us to come up with a movie that we, that would then pair with the second movie in a series is that, that would be complicated. I mean, we've, we've done Incredibles 2, Inside Out 2 and Finding Dory.

1:16:13So this was the, the Pixar sequels. Memento. Memento. No, it wasn't. Oh, right. Yeah. But I think the other three we covered as they came out, as each of them came out. And I don't remember when Toy Story 2 was, but it was before 2015, I believe. So outside the window we're covering it new. Good deduction. All right. So our current score is Keith with 12 points, Tasha with 10 points, and Scott still with 7. Oh, no. All right. This is our last question. Final question. this is our final question it is a winner takes all catch the snitch situation it's five it's 500 points in honor of our 500th episode oh nice without looking at the script please tell me the phone number listeners can call to leave us a voicemail for feedback oh hey you i barely know my own phone number why are you a monster I don't know my daughter's phone number by the way she has a phone number I put it in the context that's why it's a 500 point question guys can I guess 555 oh no I got it wrong wait alright just do a random nine I'm going to say the number and if I bleep it out if I get it wrong though somebody's phone number in my life is it seven oh you know what I think it's Scott's number no definitely put scott's personal cell number on the podcast all right i feel sorry for you guys so i'm gonna give you i'm gonna give you the first the area code and the first three numbers if you can tell me the final four it was i'm pretty sure the area code is a 47 it's a rhythm thing it's a rhythm thing i got this okay all right you can leave us voicemail at 773-234-9730 scott you won Yes!

1:18:16Woo-hoo! Oh, baby. 500 points. 500 points to what? Like six? I was just feeding the little hamsters in my brain. The wheels started moving. I got it. Thank you, guys. My hamsters don't take your numbers. Wait, wait, wait. Thank you, Genevieve. We need another round of buzzers real quickly. Just let them fly.

1:18:40So my own little piece of trivia. What classic film divided us most along gender lines? Actually, oh, well. Because I think we all know that one. I actually did write a question about this. I did write a question about this and decided not to include it. But why not? We'll do it now. As we all know, MASH was an early divisive film. Name the other film in that pairing and at least two people who starred in it. Oh, I think I could get to the film.

1:19:14It was With Key Tango Foxtrot Starring Tina Fey and Christopher Abbott as A Middle Eastern man Like the whole like you know Which was like this whole thing where it's like I love Christopher Abbott it's a really good performance But I don't think it should actually exist you know But anyway I would not have gotten to Christopher Abbott If you had I think I just remember because of the whole like sort of like you know that sort of uncomfortable element to it but yeah we would also have accepted a we could also accept a trivia question what is the uh letterboxd review that tasha still gets the most absolute shit for oh on a week-to-week basis oh it's it's mash i mean it's interesting it's really i feel like i've talked about this before it's about a two-thirds split between you know thank you for being the person who finally said it uh this movie is terrible and you need to die here's a description of how you should die like i probably get you know some like creepy bit of hatred uh out of that thing about once a month uh still to this day and it kind of makes me laugh wow well i'm glad you can laugh about it tasha well it's just so you know there there have been movies that i have felt i guess more hesitant in my response to or you know, movies where I felt intimidated to speak my truth to in the face of other people's strong disagreement.

1:20:43But I know how I feel about that movie and why. And I know why a lot of the haters are coming for me on it. And I have no sympathy for them. So I'm all good. Genevieve, I have a question for you, a trivial question tied to the fact that you're drinking a Dr. Pepper because Dr. Pepper figures prominently in Last Picture Show. What three numbers are on the vintage Dr. Pepper bottles and what do they mean? I have no idea. Why would I know that? It's not on my spreadsheet of all of our next picture show pairings. It's 10, 2, and 4 because the advertising campaign was you were supposed to have a Dr.

1:21:19Pepper three times a day. 10, 2, and 4. I think zero to zero, Dennis, actually recommend that as part of your diet. Even in my darkest moments, have not considered cracking open a Dr. Pepper at 10 o 'clock in the morning. Oh man, well, you know, drop in Coke Zero and I cannot make that same. I cannot say the same. I have definitely had that. As somebody who does not drink coffee and never has, and whose only caffeine consumption pretty much comes in the form of diet Dr. Pepper, there have been days when I actually want a 10 a.m. Dr. Pepper and don't let myself have that. I have never had a piping hot Dr.

1:22:03Pepper at 10 in the morning or otherwise. Piping hot Verners, which is a local brand of ginger ale, is an old wives cure here in Michigan. It's supposed to help an upset stomach. Hot Verners. You kind of just don't necessarily know where this podcast is going to go sometimes. Genevieve, thank you for that quiz. It was elaborate and impressive and exciting, and it was fun to do that again. And that actually is it for this very special edition of The Next Picture Show. But we'll be back next week with a new set of episodes. Genevieve, can you tell us about our next pairing? Set in the Pacific Northwest during the early 20th century, the new film Train Dreams, based on Dennis Johnson's novella, is an American epic told on an intimate scale.

1:22:49Following a logger and railway worker from Idaho, played by Joel Edgerton, the film is about an ordinary man who lives quietly and in obscurity, but nonetheless has a hand in shaping the country. He is like a dot in a pointillist painting. The scope and beauty of Train Dreams, along with its down-to-earth point of view, calls to mind Terrence Malick, specifically 1978's Days of Heaven, his Depression-era romance about transient laborers doing seasonal work on a farm in the Texas Panhandle. So for our next set of episodes, we'll step outside and experience Magic Hour along with them. For now, we welcome your feedback on The Last Picture Show, The Next Picture Show, and anything else film-related you'd like to talk about.

1:23:27Email us at comments at nextpictureshow.net. Or leave us a voicemail at 773-234-9730. That number that you've memorized. Before we close out this week's episode, where can we find everyone these days, Tasha Robinson? Well, you can find me at the phone number 773. No, I am the entertainment editor at Polygon.com. You can find my writing and my curation of other people's writing there. You can find me on Blue Sky at Tasha Robinson. Keith, what about you? uh you can find we'll start with social media first you can find me at mostly at blue sky at kphips 3000 i'm on other social media uh sites there as well uh under that handle as well uh you can find me contributing sometimes to places like tv guide and the ringer and vulture um and slate recently uh but you can mostly find me at the reveal the reveal.film which is the movies newsletter that I co-author with Scott Tobias.

1:24:29Oh, and one quick plug. I can talk about it now. I assisted in the creation of a book called Reflections on Cinematography by Roger Deakins, which is now in stores. It is Roger Deakins, the famed cinematographer's story of his life and career in his own words. I contribute some to the words end of it, but I've seen the finished book now with the pictures in it and everything and it's and it's really uh cool so that is a good uh good gift item for uh uh for people scott you can find me at the reveal.film where can we find you same place yeah that's where i'm doing a lot of my writing of course you can find me on blue sky at scott tobias you can find me on geo cities now you can't find me there uh myspace uh you can find me also uh in a vulture uh or the new york times or guardian Also, also the Los Angeles Times.

1:25:20I've done a couple of things for Los Angeles Times and other other fine publications. What about you, Genevieve? I am the TV editor at Vulture, editing TV things and occasional movie things. And I am on social media, posting rarely as Genevieve Kosky. You can stay updated on The Next Picture Show at nextpictureshow.net and on Blue Sky at The Next Picture Show. Get bonus content and open discussion at patreon.com slash nextpictureshow. Picture Show. And as always, we appreciate your rating and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistance producing this podcast.

1:25:56The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of the Film Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

1:26:07Congratulations again to The Next Picture Show. As someone who listens to every episode, I can say here is two, another 500. Now access to the Film Spotting Archive, which we usually share in this feed, plus monthly bonus shows and even more. Those are some of the benefits of joining the Film Spotting family. So if you would like to support the show by joining the family, you can do that at filmspottingfamily.com. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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