Tony Leung Talks Silent Friend, Plus Decorado and The Wizard of the Kremlin | #1065

22:06Adam Kempenaar:My sincere thanks to Tony Leung for that conversation. As I said to him, definitely an honor. We both had a chance to see Silent Friend Josh. But before we get to that, let's take a moment to thank some FilmSpotting family members.

22:21Josh Larsen:Indeed. Thank you to Family Plus members, Frederick Steinsvik in Norway and Ramon Raleigh-Gonzalez in Houston. Now, when family members join, we invite them to answer a few questions so we can get to know them better. Here's what we heard from Frederick. Hello, friends. I've been away from FilmSpotting for probably a decade now. I was an avid listener from around 2006 through university and my internship as a doctor in Norway. Life happened, wife and kids arrived, and cinema slash film slash movies became less of a presence in my life. As the hectic years of raising children are, well, let's say they're stabilizing, I have found more time to enjoy my former and hopefully future passion.

23:04Josh Larsen:Diving back into the world of cinema, I realized I had some catching up to do. In building my pile of shame of blind spots from the last decade, I naturally turned to the film spotting archives for inspiration. In going back, I could not pinpoint the exact episode I started listening to your podcast, but the first review I remember is your discussion of brick. A personal favorite, and I was delighted when the film spotting bricks became a thing, and I am glad to see they still are. So some time traveling, Frederick's been going on there. We also heard from Raleigh, I can't remember what episode was my first, but I know it was during the early ballgame era.

23:43Josh Larsen:I was immediately enamored with the smart banter and segments like the Top Five.

23:48Adam Kempenaar:You know, going back to Frederick real quick, I think the next time we do one of those blind spot segments ourselves, when we admit to the movies that we need to check off our list, we should just call it the pile of shame. Pile of shame. Fitting. Why not? Cuts right to the heart of it. Here's Frederick on a favorite film spotting moment.

24:34Adam Kempenaar:Raleigh recommends The Story of Film by Mark Cousins. Also, he says, my favorite documentary on film. And Frederick says The Animator Survival Kit by Richard Williams, who always gets such great recommendations during this segment.

24:47Josh Larsen:Thanks for those. And thank you, Frederick and Raleigh, for being family members. If you want to follow Raleigh on Letterboxd, you can do so at D-J-R-O-L-L-E-8-2. Frederick, when we asked, said, don't have one? One of us. one of us. Come on, Frederick. Maybe he's looking into it. The question mark there suggests that he was on pause. Could he possibly have been a member? Yeah, so we'll see. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, Film Spotting Family membership comes with perks. You can listen early and ad-free. You will also receive our weekly newsletter. You'll get exclusive opportunities including the Film Spotting Family Discord and monthly bonus shows.

25:31Josh Larsen:We got May's bonus show out early, I noticed, Adam. Yes. Sam working overtime. That's right. Yeah, new Hollywood draft. This is one he joined us for, producer Sam as well. And our guest. Two Sams, because our guest was 1940s Madness winner, Sam Thompson.

25:50Adam Kempenaar:That's right. Two Sams for the price of one. So far, would you like to know who is winning the draft poll? Of course I would. You think it's you because you picked Chinatown first. You had the first pick. And so far, it is serving you well. Now, I knew you had a shot because you had Chinatown, and it's the obvious first pick in this draft. But I didn't think the rest of your picks maybe would hold up. So far, you are in the lead. I'm in second. If you look at the percentages, it seems like you're running away with it. But it's very early, Josh. and you are only in the lead by six votes. Ah, okay.

26:33Adam Kempenaar:And you have some time to do some lobbying.

26:36Josh Larsen:Yes, yes, you do. Denigrating of my picks, I noticed. I let that go, but, you know, aside denigration. I mean, who wants the conversation? I love all your choices. I mean, what kind of a pick is the conversation? I love all your films.

26:49Adam Kempenaar:I think I have been on the record very positive about all of your choices. Keep this going. I like this. Yeah. So please vote. The link is right there in the podcast description. So family members, we hope you'll listen to your bonus content. It is obviously a key benefit of being a FilmSpotting family member. And then click the link and go to the poll. We give you the full draft order. You can see how it shook out. You can see the final results and you can vote there in the poll as well. for as little as$4.99 a month, and that's discounted if you pay annually. You can get all of those benefits that Josh mentioned and a little bit more, filmspottingfamily.com.

27:30Adam Kempenaar:We also like ratings. Who doesn't like positive ratings? You can rate us positively over at Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It is not about limitation. It is not about separation. It is about the attempts to find metaphors. for the phenomena of the world.

27:53Josh Larsen:Let's get back to Silent Friend, Adam. Fittingly, I want to start by talking about trees. As we mentioned, this is the last recording for me here in Scotland as part of my master's program at the University of St. Andrews. And one of the places that I'm going to miss is St. Mary's Quad. That's where my theology and the arts seminars have been taking place. The centerpiece of the quad is a home oak planted some 300 years ago About 1740 is the closest estimate I was inspired by Silent Friend to take a photo of this oak And I posted that on Instagram so folks can find it If you want to check me out at Larsen on Film there Now Silent Friend, a stunning new film from accomplished Hungarian filmmaker Ildiko and Yeti has as its centerpiece another very old tree, a ginkgo biloba planted in 1832 on the grounds of a German university.

28:54Josh Larsen:Now, dates matter here because Silent Friend follows three different narratives across three different eras. Underneath the ginkgo's expansive branches and vast canopy, we first meet a visiting neuroscientist in 2020, played by Tony Leung. When the pandemic hits and his research stalls, he turns to measuring the potential consciousness of the tree to pass the time. The film soon brings in two other stories, that of the university's first female botany student in 1908, played by Luna Wedler, followed by that of a lonely student in 1972, played by Enzo Brum, who finds companionship with a geranium.

29:36Josh Larsen:I love movies, Adam, but forced to choose between movies and trees. I see where this is going. Would you believe I might take trees? About you, I do.

29:48Adam Kempenaar:I do.

29:49Josh Larsen:As a kid, I mean, I would climb pretty much every tree I could. My dad and grandfather built a treehouse in our backyard, sleeping overnight up there with friends. Some of my best memories. When Debbie and I had a yard of our own for a time, we planted no less than 20 trees over the nearly 20 years we lived there, including one for each of our daughters, an aristocrat pair, and an autumn blaze maple, both of which eventually rose higher than the house. Now, I've never psychoanalyzed my love of trees. Surely it's something to do with an appreciation of creation, the peacefulness a tree brings wherever it's planted, those memories of youth that they evoke.

30:32Josh Larsen:Silent Friend captured something I hadn't considered before, but I think it's accurate, a tree's capacity to offer companionship. so where are you on trees adam and has silent friend made you reassess that rethink that in some way did the movie affirm your affection for trees or did it make you see them in a new more appreciative light and you know independent of trees though i think one of the things silent friend suggests is that such independence from flora is impossible what did you just think of the movie.

31:07Adam Kempenaar:It's so funny you bring this up because just a couple of weeks ago, we were driving somewhere through the Iowa rural countryside and Sarah was noticing. And I'm sure I was in my laptop in the passenger seat because I am usually multitasking. Sarah's driving. I'm trying to get something done. I'm in my own head. I'm trying to work. And she's noticing nature and she actually points out, look at that tree. That would have been a great one to climb. That's where her head is, right? Sounds like she was wired similarly to you. And of course, when I was a kid, I climbed trees. Yes. But that's definitely not how I'm looking at trees now, if I'm looking out the window at all.

31:55Adam Kempenaar:And even just yesterday, it was film spotting PA, Sophie. It was her college graduation. And so we're at Grinnell, we're on campus. And the last thing we did before leaving was pose for a picture. And we posed next to the sign for James Hall. Because four years ago, when we dropped her off on campus, she and I posed next to that same sign. Now, why that sign mattered is not just because it's the dorm that we had just moved her into four years ago, but it also happened to be the same dorm I was assigned to my first year. So there's this natural yet absurd sort of progression through time. After that, Sarah and I, we want to pose for our pictures with the new graduate.

32:51Adam Kempenaar:We need a beautiful backdrop. And we just a few feet over decide to pose for our shots with her right next to this beautiful, big tree that got the entire South Campus dorms and or most of it. and the lawn in the shot, just your classic sort of college campus shot. It was beautiful. Sun was shining. And as I was standing there, Josh, and I haven't seen this movie now for two or three weeks, so it's not as fresh in my mind as maybe it is for you, but obviously I knew we were talking about it. And I'm standing there under the, what do I call it, the flora, the fauna. Foliage.

33:36Josh Larsen:Go with foliage.

33:37Adam Kempenaar:Foliage, thank you. I'm under the foliage of this tree. And at one point I was even standing on the roots, you know, on the bark, you know, down there. And Sarah's like, you're way taller than us. You need to come down from this thing. But I just loved being kind of perched up there. And I started thinking about this movie a little bit. And I was thinking about that tree. And as I'm smiling for pictures, I was thinking, how many other generations of people, of families, have stood right here in this spot and posed for pictures just like we are now? The technology has changed, the cameras, right?

34:20Adam Kempenaar:The clothes have changed. The hairstyles have changed just like we see in the movies. Circumstances, context. But but people largely haven't the concerns for the most part largely haven't the questions largely haven't. And in the case, too, of Grinnell, I'll just say the school is as old as the state of Iowa. It goes back to 1846. It's 180 years old. So think about the ghosts under that tree as I'm standing there. And I'm not as good with identifying trees, certainly as Sarah is. even she's not entirely sure. We think it's an elm tree. And guess what? That would make sense because one block over from the school where we're standing is Elm Street.

35:07Adam Kempenaar:So that's probably not by accident that it's called Elm Street. So I was very much in that mindset with this movie in my mind. And I don't know, Josh, that this film profoundly altered my view of nature or will We'll alter it forever. But like any thoughtful, meditative, beautiful film, and this film really is lovely, that more than anything does get you out of your own head for two hours. It just makes you think more profoundly about nature and about our connection to it. and it makes you think about your life as part of something bigger about your life as part of a continuum and that's what silent friend did for me yeah that i think that phrase you use gets you

36:02Josh Larsen:out of your head described it does describe for me the experience of the movie but yeah the the experience of being underneath or among trees too it takes me out of my own head that's probably another element of it. There is a shot, Adam, there are multiple shots in this movie from up in the canopy of this main tree, the ginkgo tree, that's looking down at people across different eras that captures what you described, you know, of the different graduating families. You can imagine a camera being put up there and seeing a family from, you know, late 1800s, mid 1900s, And then today, that's essentially what En Yedi has managed with this film.

36:41Josh Larsen:And I think it's I think it's quite wondrous, actually. I'm unfamiliar with the rest of her work from what I understand. I think maybe two other pictures involve trees fairly significantly. So this this, you know, must be a preoccupation. And certainly it makes sense to me to put at the forefront here for Silent Friend. I found the entire film to be what you could almost call botanical. I found it to be slow, like as in slow growing. It's a very long film, serene and sensuous as well. There's a lot of sensuality here, both in how everything is filmed and earthiness, but in some of the experiences of these characters as well.

37:26Josh Larsen:So I think there are a lot of levels going on here. and flora however is always at the at the forefront i think of all of the frames where either that ginkgo is somewhere in the frame just just a branch in a corner or the shot they're in the university library and you can see it through the windows in the background it's not the point of the shot but we've become so attuned to that tree it it becomes like a friend you recognize you're like oh hey i know that one out the window right because of the composition um and how about the technique that she employs here with cinematographer Gergely Palos.

38:05Josh Larsen:They have compositions where a plant or sometimes an insect actually is in focus in the left foreground of the frame, close up almost. And then there's a character in the far background, a human character that's blurry. And I just really like it because it's captivating, it's unusual, but it speaks to what the movie overall is trying to do. That's right. You know, it's not diminishing human presence. It's just, you just touched on this. It's causing us to question our ordering of biological priorities, you know, like maybe we need to think about reshifting the focus a little bit as this specific shot has done.

38:46Adam Kempenaar:Yeah. I mean, I think it is, literalizing isn't the right way to frame it because that makes you think of words, but it is, It is portraying visually what the Leung's character in this case is talking about in his lectures. And this is something I brought up with Leung. I should mention, we obviously always try whenever possible. If I've done an interview like this, we try to make sure that you have an opportunity to listen to it. It just didn't work out in this case. So you don't know necessarily what what I covered. what I covered. And in this case, this is something I brought up. I didn't specifically bring up the technique you described, but his character, I talk about how that first lecture, and this is a very real scientific thing that he is talking about here.

39:34Adam Kempenaar:This idea of lantern light consciousness and the borders between the seen and unseen, the observed and the unobserved. And so in Yeti here is very much doing that with the camera in all of these shots where we as viewers are constantly having to shift and decide exactly what we can see and what we can't see, what we want to focus on, what what we think we can make out. It the movie is putting us in that position where we have to shift our consciousness. And and that is a fun, I'll say fun place to be in with this movie very much. And I do think then that's that's an example of the form and content very much working together.

40:17Josh Larsen:Because you mentioned young Leung, I'll just say about his performance. I think it was a perfect match for the demeanor of the movie that we've been describing. I mean, it's very tranquil, almost monk like. I think his, you know, his not completely shaved head, but very closely cropped hair is part of that. There's even a shot that comes to mind from behind and you just see his head centered in the frame. And I think like the room begins to illuminate. And so I think, you know, he's in about a third of the movie because it does have these three narrative strands. But he kind of grounds it in this aura of authority because of his legendary presence.

40:56Josh Larsen:and what he brings to any performance. But also I like the element of curiosity he brings. Once his work gets derailed, not only does he, I mean, he's obviously disappointed in that, but everyone keeps asking him, aren't you bored here? Don't you want to get out? And he's just turned his attention to this tree and some other research that he's discovered and tries to apply it. So I think that sort of curiosity is a key quality to the performance as well.

41:28Adam Kempenaar:Yes, absolutely. I mean, who is better at stillness on camera? And that's actually where we began a little bit than Tony Leung. He is the, maybe in some ways, the only person who could play this character as well as he does here. And I tried to navigate this a little bit with him or explore it a little bit further. We did have just a little bit of a language barrier with some of the questions. But with that curiosity, it's still so fascinating, Josh, that the way the movie explores this idea of connection with people and the the covid backdrop is so crucial here. you see that he still gets so wrapped up in his work that despite the fact that there seems to be only one other human being anywhere near him and that person is around him a lot and and from the very beginning of his arrival on campus that person is there that person is observing him very much watching him and keeping a close eye on him leung's character is oblivious to him And at first, and for most of the movie, that seems to really rankle him, right?

42:41Adam Kempenaar:That does not go over well with this other person. And so something about that is so fitting to me that he can get so wrapped up in his work that he can be completely disconnected. He can be connected to this tree in a profound way and yet be so utterly disconnected from the one other human being that's around him.

43:02Josh Larsen:yeah and i did like how the movie comes around and has a very nice scene i thought that played nicely that addresses that this is my sense was this was a facilities manager who is still there to make sure things are running even though the campus is shut down sylvester groth plays the character and yeah they have a nice um yeah there's a nice dinner moment let's just say eventually after this this very distanced relationship right i mean i don't want to

43:30Adam Kempenaar:spoil it but no i don't want to either i don't want to say much more are even better and so i i do i do get into this a little bit with him but i wanted to pose it to you this idea going back think back to when we were in the midst of covid and when we were just coming out of it and we were talking about films that were in the time openly dealing with covid as a backdrop as a subject and we were saying, are these movies going to be any good? Or maybe the reason why they're not any good or as good as they could be is they didn't have the perspective yet. Or maybe the filmmakers just weren't quite good enough.

44:11Adam Kempenaar:They weren't bringing the perspective that we were hoping for. I don't know if you watched it through this lens or not, but now that we get this film from In Yeti and COVID is part of the scenario, but beyond that, the fact that it is, so profoundly about the need for human connection. And you have a character like Leong's who over time, like his is Dr. Wong, who over time comes to realize what so many people, as obvious as it may seem, what so many people did come to realize during the pandemic, which was how isolating it was and how much we needed that. Is this the first and best? is this the COVID movie we all thought we would eventually get five, six years later?

45:02Josh Larsen:I don't know if I would put that on it. I think the way it handles it is very tactful, but it's almost to me incidental. I would actually go the other way. And I think where the film is pushing us is to value human connection. Absolutely. And that's the key to this, this character, this facilities manager character we're talking about, that that scene is included there because I don't think the movie is arguing to just go run off into the forest and you'll be fine. Right. But if you think of all three threads, and it has been a bit now, about a week or so since I've seen it. So I'm going through my mind how each one of them resolved as resolves as much as they do.

45:42Josh Larsen:I think the characters genuinely move away from human relationships or potential human relationships and towards a closer relationship with a plant or a tree, or in the case of one of them towards, um, a documentary relationship with plants. And so as I think about your question, I think it's the movie is maybe more pushing, not pushing humans out, but trying to make space for bringing plants in. And so I think, yeah, I think in that sense, as far as the pandemic is concerned, it is a useful narrative device to establish the isolation. I think it raises some of these questions we're talking about, about human connection.

46:35Josh Larsen:And so it's not just background, but I think it also does serve as a nice historical marker because we are actually, you know the the 1972 sequence i don't have enough facility with german history to know the student sit-ins that were going on on german campuses in 1972 but that's an integral part of that background and then in the 1908 sequence it is um it is very much about the students this woman's attempt to break into the male university right so it's so the pandemic to me is also like a very distinct historical marker to root it is its narrative yes but there

47:12Adam Kempenaar:are in both of those storylines you mentioned even though this is what's great about the movie is the complexity of it of these storylines that while they both in some ways move away from their outsiders who move away from society they also they also find connection with nature and they also find connection at least in one case with the the character luna wedler the the greta character she finds connection with another person as well and i think the the fact that the dr wong character is who we begin the story with and and is the one who we follow through that that human connection part for me being the through line makes it something that i can't i can't discount that being really crucial.

47:58Adam Kempenaar:And so I love, I love that. The reason why I want to maybe see it through that lens, Josh, is because it isn't a COVID movie. It isn't a capital C COVID movie. It's not a pandemic. And yet it seems right. It seems to reinforce something so fundamentally human and, and, and something so, so important to, to human nature. I think that that is a sentiment that, that we all need to embrace and yet it makes as you said space for getting outside of that as well and and embracing embracing something else that that we don't often think about enough which is finding connection elsewhere in nature even with dr wong though josh it's not just with the the groundskeeper it's also the connection through the experiment with leah seydoux's character he is he is such an isolated scientist.

48:53Adam Kempenaar:And by going through this experiment, he does open himself up to the world. So that's something that I keep coming back to.

49:02Josh Larsen:Yeah, that's where his curiosity comes into that he's exploring this entirely different field. There's one more sort of aesthetic formal element I want to mention because I just really love what Agneti does with this. And it's the way she delineates the time periods with, you know, for the 2020 segments, she uses crisp digital imagery. Yeah. The 35 millimeter black and white for 1908. And then I really loved that slightly fuzzy, like 16 millimeter color from 1972, but she doesn't entirely rely on that either. It's, there are such lovely transitions between eras here and seasons appropriately often come into play where, you know, fall is arriving or we're in the midst of winter, moving into spring.

49:50Josh Larsen:And she employs quiet, delicate dissolves that bring us from one era to another. So it doesn't feel like it's ever these hard cuts from, say, the crisp, clean digital to the black and white. We're gently like, you know, it's like a leaf unfurling roll, just kind of layered into that next era and then brings us. So they all feel very seamless.

50:13Adam Kempenaar:that that's the word i was going to use it it wouldn't make as much sense for this film to feel like the the spectrum the continuous spectrum that time is if if it if it wasn't as seamless as it as it is as graceful as it is and obviously leong is leong but i will also note that luna wedler is a standout here but enzo broom is someone i'm not familiar with and i don't know how many other roles that he has done. But Josh, that's someone I now am going to keep an eye out for because he is magnetic every single time he appears on screen. I loved, I mean, I loved all the storylines, but I especially loved watching that character and just navigating how he, how he saw the world.

51:04Adam Kempenaar:He's one of those characters who doesn't necessarily say a lot, but, but you, you knew that he was always really carefully viewing the world, thinking about the world and had a take on it that, that when he did, when he did say something, you, you were fascinated to know where he was going to go with it.

51:22Josh Larsen:Yeah. He has a talent for withholding, but not too much and plays a lot of scenes. Some of the ones that are the most fun, I think are he's completely on his don't. He's not really interacting with anyone else. And yeah, he definitely holds our attention in those as well. All three really good performances, as they have to be with something like this. I never found myself in one era wishing I was getting back to the other. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, but I think the strength of each performance,

51:54Adam Kempenaar:that's one of them as well. Silent Friend is currently available in limited release. If you see it and have thoughts you would like to share, you can send those to us, feedback at filmspotting.net. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. I, um, I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24-7. Healthcare just got less painful.

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54:14Adam Kempenaar:Decorado is a new film from the Spanish animator Alberto Vázquez. In it, a middle-aged mouse begins to suspect that his entire life is scripted and his world is an elaborate set. Take out the word mouse and maybe this sounds a little bit familiar. Josh, this one caught my eye as we were preparing for our summer movie preview. In fact, I think it might have been my last draft pick in our summer movie preview draft. We have both seen it. I'm curious what you made of Decorado.

54:46Josh Larsen:It was really stressful. That's what I'll say. Anxiety filled. Wow. I mean, it's, you know, the sense of humor here. This is no animated Lark, even though it's very funny and it moves incredibly quickly. There are a lot of jokes, a lot of visual humor, a lot of chaotic energy. But what all of that is doing is capturing. The only thing I can say is like existence amiss because everything is wrong. Everything is wrong. Not just for Arnold. this mouse, but really everyone, it's just a matter of which, what character, how much they're going to admit it, depending on the character you're talking to.

55:27Josh Larsen:And, you know, it's seems very much of our time with the fact that there is this corporation essentially governing the city. Love the name of ALMA, stands for Almighty Limitless Mega Corporative Agency. You know, you probably only need two of those, but okay. Um, that's the sort of company it is. It's going to overdo it and overdo you. And that is the experience of the characters. It's kind of the experience of watching it. So it's, you know, as, as brilliantly envisioned and uniquely animated as it is, I mean, there are psychedelic flourishes going on here with pulsating colors and a lot of bursting eyeballs or black eyes we get.

56:10Josh Larsen:Um, it, as I said, it's a lot, it's stressful. I did wonder only 95 minutes. Is this one of those that maybe as like a series where you learn more about this world, the other characters, and you're getting 20 to 30 minute chunks and you can catch your breath. Maybe that would have been a different strategy. I think it might be adapted from Vasquez's short film yeah so um but still i'd highly recommend it just just get ready yeah get ready i mean to

56:40Adam Kempenaar:your point and how this is not this is not disney right there is a character i don't know if if she actually gets named but i i know that this is how the character is referred to and it it certainly makes sense there is a fairy in the movie oh yeah who is a little fairy over the shoulder for a lot of the film of Arnold, the main character, Mouse's wife. And she is that like the little angel that that is there. But it's a fairy who's mostly there to tell to tell her all the things that she isn't how she's insufficient, how she doesn't have enough talent. It's the voice telling you how you're not good enough, basically.

57:25Adam Kempenaar:And she's referred to as depression fairy.

57:28Josh Larsen:I think she calls herself that. There you go.

57:31Adam Kempenaar:So I couldn't remember if we actually see it or hear it or not, but that's it. It's Depression Fairy. So that's the movie that we're dealing with. But I highly recommend it as well. I mean, it is, and I alluded to this when I had just read a synopsis or a little brief description of it during the draft. And that's partly why I was interested in it is that Vasquez had made allusions to some of its influences. But you watch it and yes, it definitely is the Matrix by way of 1984, by way of the Truman Show. And then, no, would I have thought of this reference if I hadn't seen in that preview research that Vasquez had said this?

58:15Adam Kempenaar:No. But he had said that he even had Ingmar Bergman's scenes from A Marriage on his mind. So, no, I probably would not be bringing that up here if I didn't know that. But watching it with that in mind, Josh, I can say that in the conversations that Arnold and I don't know why I'm blanking on the name of his mouse wife. Do you have that handy? What is no, but I can look at what is her name? Thank you. The conversations that they do have as a couple and the way Vasquez gives time to those conversations, the way they they share how they have changed the way the the emotions come out. it isn't just husband and wife mouse squabbling with each other and I don't love you anymore and I'm not happy and I'm going to go do this now.

59:10Adam Kempenaar:It's not, it is not just about serving the plot. It is not just about providing conflict and tension. They are fully realized characters and you, you get a sense, you do see some of this in flashbacks, but you have a sense from every time they are interacting with each other, that these are characters who have a history, who not only love each other, but like each other, that are friends, that everything they're going through is something that is very difficult for them. And there's a physicality to the way they hold each other even. And, and I can see, I can see why watching it, why he might say something like that, why that influence was in his mind and how it at least translated to the screen.

59:55Josh Larsen:Yeah, their relationship is a through line, honestly. I mean, there are sections where Maria, that's the wife's name, is not on the screen quite as much as Arnold, but that relationship is crucial in the very beginning and then the middle and then at the end as well. And if you see this in the English subtitled version, we should give credit to the vocal performances of those two characters. I'm going to do my best here, but Arnold voiced by Azir Hormaza and Maria by Ain't Zani Gamiz. So that back and forth between them, both as visual characters and, yeah, in terms of dialogue, it's incredibly rich for an animated film.

1:00:35Josh Larsen:I agree.

1:00:36Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, and it's one of those movies that in terms of these larger questions that it is making you think about, the existential angst of Arnold and also the late-stage capitalism scenario that it is posing. I, at one point, did have to posit Josh and Google derealization. What a great word. I was thinking, and I'm showing my ignorance here, and I'm happy to admit it. Did Vasquez make this up? Because this is a great word. This is perfect for exactly what these characters are going through and what seems to be a very real condition, not just what characters in movies go through sometimes, but what so many of us probably feel on a regular basis, just not at this heightened a level.

1:01:27Adam Kempenaar:And, well, yeah, of course, that's why it's a very real term, derealization. That's what this movie is very much interrogating. But to that end, where I want to go, Josh, is that Vasquez isn't just using all of this as fodder for jokes. He isn't just kind of taking the easy way out to either make the easy joke or to score pretentious points to make it seem like he's dealing with this higher subject matter, this deeper subject matter. There's a sequence here that really blew me away that I can only equate to the Mad World sequence. Am I remembering that sequence right? Is it Mad World? Is that what it's called in Donnie Darko?

1:02:25Adam Kempenaar:Oh, wow. The one where we get the song where they introduce us to, yeah, the Tears for Fears song, Mad World. I knew I was hearing it right in my head. where it it it takes us through and in Donnie Darko it's that great song but it it shows us not only all of our main characters but also some of the quote-unquote villains of the story right in these dark moments of their of their soul right and in this movie caso de laauh crosselujah avante And it's about 60 % of the way through or three quarters of the way through this movie. And it's not only a part where Arnold and Maria and some of the other crazy characters we meet, supporting characters we meet in this story, who are the quote unquote good guys, but also the bad guys.

1:03:22Adam Kempenaar:the bad guys also get the moment where they they say something and we see them struggling with something internally josh including the demon right the demon who who sits by the water who who has his harp and his harp is taken away and and he's lamenting how without it that was how he got through the day was his music that he made on his harp i found that incredibly moving that that even the monsters, some literal monsters and some the monsters of the story even got, rather than it just being glib, there seemed to be something a little more powerful going on in a sequence like that.

1:04:03Josh Larsen:I think there's real genuine despair here. Yeah, that's it. So when I say get ready, it's not just because it's visually a lot, it's mentally, psychologically a lot. I ended up doing some Googling too after this because that line one character says at one point, and it goes by very quickly, it's no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a sick society. Yeah. Just captures what this movie is trying to capture so well, but also sounded familiar. Best I can tell, it's a variation on something spiritual philosopher Jidu Krishnamurti said at one point. Others have expressed this in different terms, but I do think, yeah, that's what Arnold is wrestling with here.

1:04:48Josh Larsen:Does he want to be healthy in this society? And that is a resonant question right now for a lot of people. So I think this movie will hit some painful chords, touch some painful chords for people. And, but there's something, I don't know if it's cathartic in that, but there is, there's something to having that experience of recognition where depending where you're at with some of these questions, watching decorado, you can say, oh, but I've got Arnold. Arnold knows what I'm going through. Yes. Even if maybe other people, when you talked about some of this stuff, look at you sideways.

1:05:27Adam Kempenaar:this dystopian world I've I've mentioned obviously Matrix I've mentioned 1984 some of it feels familiar and of course so much of it doesn't feel familiar it feels like this this creation of Vasquez's imagination one touch that I love Josh it just felt like one of those variations on the dystopia one creative inversion that I had never seen before and and I would not Because we've seen the first part of it a million times, but we've never seen the second part of it before. So I loved it. And it's when and it's sort of like the Truman Show, too, at the very beginning, which is the movie opens effectively with him waking up, Arnold waking up.

1:06:14Adam Kempenaar:And what does he do? He goes and looks in the mirror. Right. And he's looking at how he how he looks a little. His eyes are puffy and baggy and everything. And what does he do? He gets out the medicine and the medicine says it'll make him 100 % happy. And he takes the pill later as he decides whether or not he wants, does he want to be happy in this bad world? Or, you know, does he want to face the reality sort of blue pill, red pill stuff as well? He decides I'm going to flush the pills. I'm not going to take the pills that the company is giving me. I'm going to face this all sober. I'm going to struggle.

1:06:50Adam Kempenaar:Okay. We've seen that. How many times in a sci sci fi dystopian movie have we seen it where they say, I'm not going to I'm not going to let him lobotomize me. I'm going to dump the pills. But in Decorado, when he flushes the pills, we then go down to the sewer with the pills. and the company has someone at the bottom of the sewer drain of each home. Well, at least the people they're monitoring, collecting the pills and taking note of the people who are stopping their medication. Yeah.

1:07:26Josh Larsen:Nice touch. Really nice touch. I like how it opens with a curtain as well. Yes, has to. Yeah. If you look into the meaning of the title, which the film makes explicit as well fairly early on, that makes a lot of sense. So just, yeah, a lot of, that's a good way to describe the movie is like just a little bit extra on each thought you get either in the script or in the visuals.

1:07:51Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, that's a really, that's a really good way to put it. Decorado is also out now in limited release. And we would love to hear your thoughts if you do get a chance to see that one. Vadim Baranov was a visionary director. He became known as the new Rasputin. I want to be part of my time, not just a witness.

1:08:15Josh Larsen:Also playing in limited release is The Wizard of the Kremlin. This one comes from director Olivier Asayas, formerly did Personal Shopper, The Clouds of Sils Maria and Summer Hours, among many others. The wizard of the title is Paul Dano's Vadim Baranov, who in the early 90s became an ally and then later a spin doctor for rising KGB agent Vladimir Putin, played here by Jude Law. So, Adam, is this the Putin movie we've long wanted and needed? Have we? Have we long wanted that? I don't know. You tell me.

1:08:53Adam Kempenaar:Okay. I believe there's a world where the best movie about Vladimir Putin is one where he is a supporting character. Hell, so far, it's probably two documentaries, right? Navalny and Julia Loctev's My Undesirable Friends, part one, Last Air in Moscow, where he's not really a character at all. But even if we did limit ourselves to narratives, coming at it through the lens, coming at that story of a powerful world leader through the lens of a spin doctor or an opponent, obviously that could work. but or it should work but it's a testament to how ineffectual this movie is and how terrifyingly bluntly charismatic Jude Law is as Putin that I'd absolutely buy a ticket to the Putin biopic starring Jude Law okay I never thought I would want to see a Vladimir Putin movie before this And after seeing law as Putin, I would buy that ticket, Josh.

1:10:03Adam Kempenaar:He is that good. And unfortunately, he's just not he's just not in this movie enough. It is definitely the Paul Dano Baranov story. There comes a point halfway through maybe where Putin effectively just disappears after he comes to power. it it really is not his story at all it is definitely focusing just on baronov who is based on vladyslav serkov he was a russian politician and businessman who had a similar role in being an aid to putin i i don't know why because obviously i think we all realize at this point that judah is a pretty talented actor but i was still surprised at how much i enjoyed watching him as Putin because it's not one of those performances where you feel like he's giving a performance where you feel like he's sinking his teeth into an impression or trying to be overly ruthless.

1:11:05Adam Kempenaar:There is just something subtly shark like about what law is doing here where you you You can just, I don't know how to say it, Josh, other than you can see it in his eyes. You can see it in his eyes that he will do anything and everything for power and to maintain his power. He gives it to you. Law just gives it to you in his eyes. And in fact, there is one scene with Dano where they're just having lunch, I think. It's just the two of them having lunch. and to hear me talk about the scene you might think oh this must be one of those scenes like you're used to seeing in a movie where it it it could be something people talk about or or go back to later where where it's law giving you the moment where he he ascends to the putin we all know where because this is the moment josh where in the movie he he hasn't actually become the the president yet of Russia.

1:12:11Adam Kempenaar:He hasn't taken power yet. He's, he's being convinced that, that he should, he should ascend to that role that he should nominate himself, right? He should run. And he, he isn't doing anything where, because of the dialogue or what Asias is doing with the camera, there's no, there's no music. There's nothing about it that screams, watch me choose scenery here. And I'm just going to dig into this and enjoy my glory on screen. It's just something he does with his eyes and just even a little bit of squinting. It's not a squint. I don't know how to describe it, Josh. It's just where for a moment you watch Jude Law and you feel like he is possessed by the spirit of Vladimir Putin.

1:13:01Adam Kempenaar:It it's that convincing. So I watched him and felt like every moment he's on screen, this film comes alive and every moment he's not on screen, unfortunately. And I have been hard on Paul Dano on the show before. I am one of the, there will be blood detractors. This performance is Baranov does not do anything to raise his esteem he he for me he chooses to play baron of the entire time with a sort of elevated whisper to give him some kind of mysterious regality and that's how he talks the entire film and i don't it just doesn't work josh it it's it's actually distracting and monotonous it's especially so when he's playing opposite someone as commanding as as jude law you know i don't like public speaking right now the people need to hear your voice here on a state visit not from the kremlin palace you have to give them a sense of urgency i'm not an actor i'll give them a simple statement i actually was thinking about you a little bit watching this film because I can think of one case in particular, a movie like Interstellar, where so much happens, and yet I know that one of your criticisms is all the talkiness.

1:14:27Adam Kempenaar:Do you know what the conceit of The Wizard of the Kremlin is? It opens with Jeffrey Wright's character in voiceover. He's a writer who wrote about Baranov. And now he's back in Russia, and he's researching a book. So he's talking to us in voiceover. and then he gets summoned and a car drives him out to Baranov's house where Baranov decides he's going to just tell him everything. The rest of the movie is just Paul Dano and Jeffrey Wright having a conversation. We, of course, see the things that are being talked about, but we also spend very long stretches where it's just Paul Dano sitting across from Jeffrey Wright.

1:15:13Adam Kempenaar:telling him things. And I know that Jeffrey Wright's one of those actors that we all hail as someone who we'd say we'd watch him read the phone book. We'd probably watch him get the phone book read to him. As good as Jeffrey Wright is, even he looks very bored in this film. It can never find its way through this material. It's trying to check too many boxes and trying to tell too much of the past 15 years, 20 plus years of history, of Russian history and beyond, is trying to cram too much of it in. It never finds its way. I never found my footing with this film, and Dano, I don't think, ever finds his footing with this character.

1:16:01Josh Larsen:So maybe for Jude Law fans or Putin completists only, it sounds like.

1:16:07Adam Kempenaar:Maybe we can, maybe we'll get the Putin movie, Josh, who knows? And we'll all rush to the theater to see what Jude Law does with it. The Wizard of the Kremlin currently out in limited release. Time now for Massacre Theater. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. Why did I search the internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that. Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.

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1:18:54Josh Larsen:Adam and I will perform a scene, and you will have a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last week, we massacred this scene. I'm going to lose my temper now. When? Right now. Well, when? Twelve fox years ago, you made a promise to me while we were caged inside that fox trap that if we survived, you would never steal another chicken, turkey, goose, duck, or squab, whatever they are. And I believed you.

1:19:22Adam Kempenaar:Why? Why did you lie to me?

1:19:26Josh Larsen:Because I'm a wild animal. That was George Clooney and Meryl Streep in 2009's The Fantastic Mr. Fox, written by Noah Baumbach and Wes Anderson and directed by Anderson. That Massacre was part of an episode devoted to our top five Meryl Streep scenes. Adam, I think we both resisted putting Streep's performance here in our honorable mentions because we didn't want to give Massacre theater away. We heard from Joe in Skokie, Illinois on this performance. the exclusion of Meryl Streep's work in Fantastic Mr. Fox from your top five was rightfully corrected with its inclusion as this week's massacre.

1:20:02Adam Kempenaar:Thank you. You're welcome, Joe. Scott Ross in Derwood, Maryland says, We all know the direct connection, but my personal favorite connection is Fantastic Mr. Fox was co-written by Noah Baumbach, who later wrote and directed The Meyerowitz Stories, which starred Dustin Hoffman, who also starred in Kramer vs. Kramer, who was in a movie with Kevin Bacon. Sleeper. The film which made Sleepers. the film which made the number one slot on Adam's top five list. Yes, well done, Scott. That's exactly what we were thinking about.

1:20:30Josh Larsen:Very good detective work. Scott Maxwell Fletcher in New York City says, I've missed the massacres. I've only seen this movie once, but your performances nailed the idiosyncratic vibes of Wes Anderson, so I knew it immediately. Kudos.

1:20:44Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, we both got some credit, even me somehow, for daring, daring to portray Meryl Streep portraying a character in Fantastic Mr. Fox, Jason in Belmont, California, and Scott Ferguson in New Albany, Indiana, praised me for channeling Streep's outrage. And Rebecca Jallin from Grabo, Sweden said, Mrs. Fox was played only marginally better than in your version by Meryl Streep. I'm going to have that tattooed on my arm.

1:21:16Josh Larsen:Look at you. You're back. Massacre Theater is back and so are you. Yep. All right. One last comment here from Drew, who's from Silver Spring, Maryland. Nice work with this week's scene from Fantastic Mr. Fox. I've been listening since 2008, but had to ask, is this the first Wes Anderson scene you've done on Massacre Theater? That can't be possible. So I included this because I had the same reaction when I read this email from Drew.

1:21:44Adam Kempenaar:there's no way all these years of doing film spotting all these massacres how would it be possible like why is drew even asking that how could how could there be a world where we've never or we haven't done more wes anderson's and then i started searching around the mailbag and i think i don't again know how this is possible but i think the last wes anderson movie we massacred was Rushmore in 2008. You haven't even massacred a Wes Anderson movie before.

1:22:17Josh Larsen:I mean, if I had realized that the pressure would have been even greater, I actually thought we had done one of these scenes between the two of them. Right. I think when, I forget if I proposed it or if Sam did, but I think back in my mind, I thought someone is surely going to say, oh, we've already done this one. Sure. But that we haven't done any since. Oh, I know.

1:22:41Adam Kempenaar:I mean, it sounds like Drew is a film spotting historian for him to ask that question. But I also am now going to cue the moment where producer Sam is working on this show. He's hearing this conversation. He's thinking this sounds crazy. Adam's wrong. And he finds some recent Wes Anderson massacre. But for now, I'm going with the theory that 2008 was the last time. so all right josh you're going to reach into the pretty brimming film spotting hat we did come back with a vengeance because we had a lot of entries among the most entered massacre theaters we've had in a very long time reach in and pick out this week's winner our winner is miranda

1:23:21Josh Larsen:perso possibly persoed from jacksonville florida you know that name too was a new one to me and

1:23:29Adam Kempenaar:i'm pretty sure that was miranda's first time ever entering massacre hey look at that Already a winner. How about that, Miranda? I love it. Congratulations. Email feedback at filmspotting.net to claim your very own film spotting t-shirt, tote bag, or trial membership to the film spotting family. Would the detour so simple? Would the detour so simple? Would the detour so simple? Would the detour so simple? My dear boy, why do you say that? Why do you say twer? Well, you say it like I said. we move on now to this week's edition of massacre theater and after all of that praise of course i have now set myself and possibly you up for horrible failure josh but you're in your sweet

1:24:13Josh Larsen:spot with this voice i think yeah not a woman meanwhile but close with a bit a bit of an unidentifiable accent i think sure purposefully unidentifiable you don't have to be accurate here. You just have to be in a region. I meanwhile have pulled out, I went back to the whiskey, Adam. I've got another dram because I think I'm going to need just a little of that smokiness for this performance.

1:24:42Adam Kempenaar:Speaking of smokiness, how many cigars do you have and how many you had today?

1:24:47Josh Larsen:Yeah, the cigar's a no-go. Not for me. I'm just going to rely on the whiskey. I don't know

1:24:51Adam Kempenaar:that you're going to be properly in character for this one. That might throw people a little bit, But we we did have to change a couple of the names here, alter a word or two just to make it a little less obvious. We think we think you'll know where we're going. We definitely think you'll know what the tie in is. And are we going to have enough time? I mean, I know it's a podcast radio show. Are we going to have enough air time to get through this massacre theater?

1:25:23Josh Larsen:Well, there's only four lines, four sections of dialogue. But yes, one. I mean, I have to do the text justice, Adam. You do.

1:25:31Adam Kempenaar:I know. That's where I'm going. Okay. I started off. You're going to give me the action. And action. And what about Lord Summerisle? Have you come to a decision about him? Now, don't be hasty, Master McGregor. Hasty, our friends are out there. They need our help. They cannot fight this war on their own. War? Yes, it affects us all.

1:26:05Josh Larsen:Tree, root, and twig. But you must understand it takes a long time to say anything new again.

1:26:25And we

1:26:27Josh Larsen:Never say anything Unless It is worth taking A long Time To say And See

1:26:50Adam Kempenaar:I think that was pretty accurate. Okay. I mean, an all-timer for you, Josh. An all-timer. What language? Old what? I'm not sure I made out. Did you enunciate anything there? Old gayly. Sure. That's what they speak here on Islay. Okay. Well, I'm afraid people are going to think I was doing C-3PO, and I might as well have been.

1:27:16Josh Larsen:That's pretty accurate, actually. That's pretty accurate, isn't it? That was a great C-3PO. Have you come to a decision about him? Yes. You were quite distraught in a high-pitched robotic way.

1:27:28Adam Kempenaar:Yeah, prissy and distraught. If you know what film we just massacred, email the movie's title, your name, and location to feedback at filmspotting.net. Your deadline is Monday, June 1st. We'll select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks. Josh, that's our show.

1:27:42Josh Larsen:If you'd like to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube, Blue Sky. How are those Blue Sky posts coming, Adam? Have you been active? Soon.

1:27:55Adam Kempenaar:I'll be very— Soon, okay. I'll be on top of it soon. The semester ends in an hour and a half.

1:28:01Josh Larsen:There you go. All right. Well, look for him at FilmSpotting. You can find me at those places at Larson on Film. We are independently produced, so that means we're listener-supported. You can support the show by joining the Film Spotting family at filmspottingfamily.com. You can listen early and ad-free. You'll also get monthly bonus episodes, a weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. For show t-shirts and other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop.

1:28:31Adam Kempenaar:Outstreaming, or VOD, you can watch. I suppose this would qualify as streaming. Josh Jack Ryan Ghost War with John Krasinski as the Tom Clancy hero. That's on Prime Video. Ladies First is out with Sacha Baron Cohen as a ladies' man who finds his life upended when he wakes up in a parallel world dominated by women. That's on Netflix, and yes, that will be reviewed next week on FilmSpottingSVU. Silent Friend, highly recommended by us, discussed with me by Tony Leung earlier this episode. That is opening in Chicago at the Gene Siskel Film Center. Out Wide is a new film called Passenger. 130 million people take road trips every year.

1:29:14Adam Kempenaar:15 ,400 of them are never seen again. Do you think that's true? I was just going to ask you that.

1:29:22Josh Larsen:That's eerie. They did their job. It seems like too many. Marketing people. Somebody needs to do something about that if that's the case.

1:29:29Adam Kempenaar:You can also see Boots Riley's I Love Boosters. Somebody who steals clothes from a store and sells them at a discount price, a.k.a. community service. That's a booster. Josh, now you know. Gotcha. All right. Riley is, of course, the director of 2018. Sorry to bother you. That was eight years ago.

1:29:48Josh Larsen:I know it's been a long wait. Sorry to bother you. Top 10 lister for me. Cannot wait to see this one.

1:29:54Adam Kempenaar:Can't wait to see actors like Lakeith Stanfield in that one, Don Cheadle, Kiki Palmer, The Mandalorian and Grogu also out wide. Next week, Josh, The Mandalorian and Grogu is on tap. I'm also hoping to see I Love Boosters. You are going to be what somewhere else in another country or flying back to Chicago. What are you doing?

1:30:19Josh Larsen:I'll be still in the area on another island next recording day. We might be up to the Isle of Sky, actually. So, but yeah, right after that, we come back, pack up, head to Chicago. So I won't be around for next week's show. The week after that, it's back home and back at it.

1:30:41Adam Kempenaar:Okay, so one week from this very moment that we're recording, I'm recording a podcast with someone else and I have not reached out to anyone else. I have no idea. I might, you know what, my first solo show. People can't wait for that. Just an hour of me talking. I believe in you if you wanted to do that.

1:30:58Josh Larsen:No. You could also, you sound a little stressed, just going to put it out there. You could give yourself an end of term break. Spare yourself.

1:31:08Adam Kempenaar:Will listeners allow that?

1:31:10Josh Larsen:Spare yourself Grogu. I'll do the Grogu work when I get home and can report back. You can skip it and we'll reconvene early. I'll consider. I'll consider all my options. Thank you. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Dessault and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

1:31:41Adam Kempenaar:And I'm Adam Kempinar.

1:31:42Josh Larsen:Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:31:59Adam Kempenaar:In football, you've got guys from everywhere. Different backgrounds, different beliefs, all of it. You don't agree on everything, but you got each other's backs. That's how it works. And right now, off the field, hate's going up everywhere. Different communities, different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit hard. That's not how a team operates. The Blue Square is just one way of showing you've got people's backs. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, grab one, share it, be a good teammate.

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