Whiplash Review (Archive)

0:00Josh Larsen:Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited. Regal Unlimited is the all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. See any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions. Save on tickets, save on snacks. Members get 10 % off all non-alcoholic concession items. Sign up now in the Regal app or at regmovies.com slash unlimited.

0:25Adam Kempenaar:Josh, it's time to drop something from the Film Spotting Archive into the main feed. And with the Sundance Film Festival award winners having just been announced, we thought we would pick one of those award winners, actually a double award winner from our review history and share that with our audience. 12 years ago, Damien Chazelle's Whiplash won the FES Grand Jury Prize and it won the Audience Award. Of course, it went on to much more acclaim later that year as well.

1:03Josh Larsen:12 years? It actually, this is a case where it actually seems longer. I mean, Chazelle has done a lot of stuff since Whiplash, but yeah, what a breakout for him. A breakout for me on Letterboxd, Adam. I think this is one of the most liked reviews I've posted on Letterboxd of Whiplash. Did you deserve it? You know the insight I gave that got that response? See, I love it. That's why I asked. This was my review.

1:31Adam Kempenaar:Okay. Good job. See, it's always the pithy. It's always the two words when it's clever. It's what the people want on Letterboxd. You actually spend time crafting real criticism and you get three likes. Yeah, just scroll right on by. Good job's funny, though, Josh.

1:48Josh Larsen:I say good job to you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. All right. We reviewed the film when it came to theaters that October. Here's that conversation. The key is to just relax. Don't worry about the numbers. Don't worry about what the other guys are thinking. You're here for a reason. Have fun. Five, six, and... I want to be great. And you're not.

2:13Adam Kempenaar:We got Buddy Rich here. A little trouble there. You're rushing. Here we go. Five, six, and...

2:20Josh Larsen:On a recent show, Adam, we played a clip from Whiplash in which J.K. Simmons' demanding music instructor berates Miles Teller's aspiring jazz drummer, and I made a joke that he sounded like R. Lee Ermey's drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket. I hadn't seen the film yet, but it turns out I was on to something. In both Full Metal Jacket and Whiplash, the harsh demands of a superior, play a part in an instance of suicide. And this is a small detail in Whiplash, so don't worry that I've just given the entire picture away. All that is to say, though, that Whiplash, which is written and directed by Damien Chazelle, is a pretty dark film.

2:56Josh Larsen:In his quest to become one of the great jazz drummers of all time, Teller's Andrew alienates family, snuffs out a burgeoning romance, and spills a whole lot of blood. I didn't realize that drumming could involve this much blood, actually. Meanwhile, J.K. Simmons Fletcher, an abusively intense teacher at the elite music school Andrew attends, is on hand to push Andrew even further than that. Their goal is nothing short of perfection. And considering the potential, the value, and the cost of perfection is largely what Whiplash is all about. One thing I've learned about you, Adam, since joining the show is that you have a perfectionist streak.

3:33Josh Larsen:Would you say that's fair? That's fair. And to be fair, I can relate. They're a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here. Still, I wonder what it was like for you to watch this striving for musical perfection. Did you find Whiplash affirming of such tendencies or cautionary about them? Perhaps it was something in between. And is the movie itself, which is a bold incorporation of the musical aesthetic in visual form, anywhere close to artistic perfection? Great stuff.

4:01Adam Kempenaar:Whether a piece of art can ever be perfect, of course, is a very loaded subject, but it is one I'd maybe like to return to if we have time, because I do think it's interesting to consider in relation to jazz specifically. In the broader sense, I know what you're really getting at is, did I like this movie? Do I think it's a good movie? And yes, I did really like this movie. I think it's a very good film. And the first part of your prompt nails one of the aspects of Whiplash I appreciate the most. it absolutely is both affirming of such striving and cautionary about it, which is really the only honest position to take.

4:39Adam Kempenaar:I think it would have been so easy for Chazelle to show the personal cost of Andrew's ambition physically, psychologically, socially, and have him renounce that by the end of the film and be in a much healthier place. Maybe be the kid again who could actually play the drums just for fun. but chazelle maybe because this is a personal film for him what little i've read he was a former jazz protege himself and now he's an artist of course making movies he knows how disingenuous that would have been he knows how crucial that drive is in any artistic endeavor dangerous yes but necessary and by the end of this film it's a neat little trick chazelle has pulled off he gets to have it both ways.

5:21Adam Kempenaar:It's crowd pleasing and inspirational, but also really problematic and disturbing to really think about it from the main character's point of view. So there's this element of cliche to this film in terms of hitting some notes that we want a film like this to hit in terms of being uplifting. And then you sort of find yourself after you've risen out of your seat and find yourself cheering, sitting back down and thinking, what am I excited about? What am I really cheering for. It is dark in that way. And I respect quite a bit that little trick that Giselle's pulled off.

5:54Josh Larsen:Yeah, I like that you use the word trick because that's exactly what he does in a way. All the questions that are at the beginning of this film really are still there, aren't they, when the lights come up? And that's what I loved about it because it explores all the possibilities of this being cautionary and how the direction this kid is going is dangerous for himself personally, certainly for his relationships. Yeah. And even for his physical health. But then it opens up to consider without ever really condoning the methods that the Simmons character uses, but to make us really ask, is there something that's worth all of this that the kid has gone through.

6:39Josh Larsen:And maybe perfection, we don't want to get too derailed by that as a topic. Maybe it's just to be your best or to truly achieve something, it's going to take some sort of sacrificing, some sort of suffering. And then you ask yourself, okay, is that worth it? Or would I be better off having other elements of my life be healthier and richer, but I never attained that than maybe one moment. And we get that moment. This was a movie that very much worked for me personally as a viewer along the same trajectory as Frank, the Michael Fassbender film, with him in the paper mache head mask leading a band.

7:19Josh Larsen:And both pictures I was enjoying quite a bit all the way through, wasn't crazy about. And both of them culminates in a performance that ties everything together, brings it all together in this climactic scene and also leaves you still questioning, I think. So this doesn't wrap things up neatly, but I can totally see how an audience would go out of this picture thinking, oh, wow, how inspiring that was. But really, the Teller character, Andrew, he doesn't have any clear idea of how he should live his life as a jazz artist where this film ends than maybe he did a few scenes earlier. And that's what I liked about it.

7:56Adam Kempenaar:To your point specifically about the questions this movie is posing, it occurred to me that I actually think it would be a really fun personality test to give someone to have them watch a scene that happens near the end of the movie. And I'll be vague here to not spoil anything, but there's a conversation where Fletcher, J.K. Simmons, lays out his rationale. He explains why he pushed Andrew and his whole ensemble as hard as he did. Take that explanation out of the context of the movie. You're just meeting this instructor on the street and hearing his teaching philosophy. I'm curious how many people would listen and without hesitation dismiss him and say, I would never want to be taught by that man.

8:35Adam Kempenaar:I couldn't undergo that type of process. I don't even want to spend any time with him, much less be instructed by him. How many people would listen and think, okay, I get it. It sounds rough, but I get it. It could all be worth it. Sign me up. Now take those people, the people that said, sign me up. Have them watch the movie. Hear his philosophy where this scene appears within the context of the movie. You've seen his behavior. You see how far he goes. You see all the damage he's caused. How many of those people would still say, sign me up? And how many of them would switch their answer to, no way?

9:07Adam Kempenaar:I certainly wasn't unequivocally enthusiastically on board, but Josh, I was still on board. That's how messed up I am. That's how much I buy into this notion of artistic greatness. Not perfection, as you said, because I don't think it's attainable in art anyway. This isn't math or science. There's no formula. There's no hard answers, no hard right answers. But in the striving for a form of perfection, maybe you achieve something close. Maybe you achieve something transcendent. And in that way, maybe it is all worth it.

9:38Josh Larsen:And that's another trick the movie pulls is that just when you think you've got this guy figured out and demonized, here comes that speech. And, yeah, I was in the same boat as you. I'm thinking, well, he's maybe got it figured out here. And it ties into, you know, the one line, if it's the same conversation I'm thinking of, and I'm pretty sure it is, is when he says something about the worst two words in the English language are good job. Good job. And doesn't that tie into this culture now of every kid's team gets a trophy, right? Every kid comes home, whether you're in last place or first place, with a ribbon or something.

10:10Josh Larsen:And that's the idea behind it is that we're all just here to learn. Now, different contexts, of course, that happens with little kids. Here is, well, you know, a young adult, college age, and maybe making that transition between, okay, you're bad. Get out of my classroom. I'm bringing another guy in. And at some point you do have to have that restriction for the art to breathe. And so you see where he's coming from. And the movie shifts your perspective. Another interesting question to ask along the lines of yours would be, what shifts did you make during this film? Like, where were you agreeing with Simmons?

10:50Josh Larsen:Where did you just want to get him fired? Yeah. And I think it's a real emotional trajectory that this picture takes you through.

10:56Adam Kempenaar:There's no doubt. And I think a shorter version of this same challenge, it comes in the form of a question that happens in a dinner table conversation much earlier in the film where Andrew, in justifying his pursuit of this ambition, says basically, I'd rather die at 34, but be somebody that people are still talking about 50, 60 years from now versus someone who lives to be 90. Yeah. And nobody cares about not memorable in any way. That's another question. I think a lot of people listening probably have asked themselves at some point. And that reaching for greatness, I said this movie was one of my most anticipated movies of the year because that's something I am always drawn to.

11:32Adam Kempenaar:Those kinds of stories is something that has always fascinated me for whatever reason. It came up a lot recently in connection with my top five movie tattoos. Remember, I was I was paying tribute to, you know, Man on Wire, Philippe Petit pulling off this unbelievable feat and all that jazz, Joe Gideon, a character pursuing this perfection and always failing. It also connects, Josh, with something else I'm always preoccupied with. It comes up a lot here on the show, which is purpose. One of the reasons I think this type of ambition is so attractive, even though it's so obviously potentially harmful, is that it simplifies everything.

12:06Adam Kempenaar:Sure. If your entire focus is this goal, whatever that goal is, then virtually every decision you have to make has already been made for you or is at least much easier to decide. There's another great scene in Whiplash that gets directly at this in both dialogue and also how it's shot, which I know we want to talk about a little bit. Andrew takes this girl he's interested in. He asked her out at the movie theater. She's selling popcorn. Nicole, out for pizza. And she reveals that she really doesn't know what she wants to do with her life. There's no real reason why she decided to go to school at Fordham.

12:37Adam Kempenaar:It was just there. She doesn't know what her major is yet. She's still searching. It's this very kind of vulnerable moment. And Andrew's reaction, he's a nice enough kid, at least at this point in the film. His reaction to that isn't mean or hurtful, but his questions are just pointed enough that it's quite clear to her and to us that he just cannot fathom being so directionless, so lacking in drive, so lacking in purpose. And she certainly senses it, and the exchange ends awkwardly. But the reason we sense it, Josh, it isn't just the words. It's because of the editing here in this sequence. it's been up to this point in the conversation a pretty standard shot reverse shot conversation and then he asks that first leading question and she recognizes the subtext and the pace of the editing quickens the editor here is tom cross it quickens just for that back and forth a little bit of if you've seen the movie double time swing if you will and it just completely heightens the intensity of that scene and draws our focus into what's really going on in the back of his mind which we can sense a little bit based on his personality, but it's really there because of the way that scene is captured and the way it plays out rhythmically.

13:44Josh Larsen:Hey. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

13:46Adam Kempenaar:I'm good, thanks.

13:47Josh Larsen:Good.

13:48Adam Kempenaar:Uh, the usual?

13:50Josh Larsen:Uh, you know. Look, I don't really know how... I see you in here a lot, and I think that you're really pretty, and would you want to go out with me? Ever?

14:06Adam Kempenaar:Please go away.

14:07Josh Larsen:Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

14:11Adam Kempenaar:I'm just messing with you. I'm messing with you.

14:14Josh Larsen:Oh my God. I'm sorry.

14:19Adam Kempenaar:That's actually pretty mean. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. What's your name?

14:26Josh Larsen:Oh, I'm Andrew. Andrew. Yeah. I'm Nicole. Nice to meet you, Nicole. Nice to meet you too. I'm glad you mentioned the character of Nicole. She's played by Melissa Benoist, I believe is how you pronounce it. And she only gets a handful of scenes, but she's really crucial because there isn't really that opposing force in this film for the Miles Teller character. We do see his father played by Paul Reiser, but he's more of a ingratiating, supporting. He's not going to be real harsh with his son. Not at all. But she is that polar opposite. She doesn't, as you said, doesn't know what she wants to do and positions that as a worthy way to live your life, to explore and not have everything laid out in front of you and go after it with this driving force.

15:11Josh Larsen:So I like that she has that role in the film. And you're right about the editing. So crucial to talk about in this picture because we get so many insert shots, I noticed, that are not only there to convey information. But the pacing at which they come are like accent beats in a piece of music. And we get them where you'd expect when Andrew joins this elite group and we first see them warming up. So we get the moistening of the reeds, the tuning of the drum keys, all in these quick inserts. There's a real emphasis on procedure.

15:42Adam Kempenaar:Very much. Very much.

15:43Josh Larsen:But we also get these accent beats in other scenes where you wouldn't expect them. That date scene between the two of them. We'll get a quick one under the table of her foot inching toward his. or even the scene where he goes to the movies with his father, we just get an insert shot of popcorn. And all that does is give us this sense of fluidity and movement so that this is a movie that's always on the move. And that kind of incorporates this idea of jazz style as well. And I do like how Chazelle and the editor, Tom Cross, incorporate that into the film.

16:15Adam Kempenaar:Or whatever, just because he's so constantly in that space. But even when he's not listening to music, it seems as though the music's following him.