Wuthering Heights Review, How Green Was My Valley (#1053)

30:24Like why do part of weathering heights look like this old ramshackle falling apart estate? And then other parts look like, you know, Bo Welch put it together for sleepy hollow. And there was an inconsistency there to me, but you're, you're drawing a thread that's allowing me to see some ideas behind some of those production design choices because this is a movie that's throwing its production design in your face. It's throwing its costumes in your face. It wants to be anachronistic, blazingly, blaringly so. We have the Charlie XCX songs and some of that I found more successful than others. I mean, Fennell, if nothing else, she's striking me as a very eagerly outrageous director, which as I said before is to her credit in some ways.

31:14And in some ways it's like, okay, you know, you don't, you don't have to try this hard to, to get me. Well, right now, Josh, in addition to seeing Wuthering Heights on the big screen, if you haven't caught up with it already, you might still want to catch up with the new one from Sam Raimi, Send Help, starring Dylan O 'Brien and Rachel McAdams, or opening this weekend on an IMAX screen, epic, the 70s Elvis concert that Baz Luhrmann has assembled in the way only Baz Luhrmann can. You know, the film that I've heard is really fantastic and that we are doing ourselves a disservice by not having seen yet is Pillian, the film featuring Alexander Skarsgård.

31:58So we're going to mark that and put that one away to catch up with here at some point. We could see that at a Regal Cinema along with Crime 101. Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo in that film, our friends, Scott Tobias and Keith Phipps at the reveal, just gave that a very positive three and a half out of five star review. All sorts of options to see right now at Regal Cinemas. And you might just be able to see some of those movies for free with Regal Unlimited because it's the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. Right now, Regal is offering our listeners endless movies for less.

32:33If you sign up for Regal Unlimited and you use the code filmspot25, you get 10 % off a three-month subscription. Regal Unlimited is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass. You can see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions. And with Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets. You'll also save on snacks. Members get 10 % off all non-alcoholic concessions. sign up now in the regal app or at the link in the description and use that code again it's film spot 25 to get your discount i think through all three of her films you can really see that her like root filmmaker is boz lerman for better or for worse like she's yeah that is her that is her that is and like his films are are similarly like hollow pop quote hollow pop interpretations of in you know two cases great america or great you know literature great gatsby and uh Romeo and Juliet and and and does he take everything from those things no does he take what he thinks is interesting yes are they probably made for teenagers i think so one of the i don't want to call it a failing because all critical discourse is important but one of the things that I think people generally don't give her credit for is that she's making these films specifically aimed at that sort of teenage pop sensibility.

34:05And that's not to say that there aren't teenagers who like are into lit theory and are like looking for a perfect adaptation with all of the themes. But I would say your average teenager is not or they're not there yet or they're on their way there and maybe this leads them there like i don't know how many people in 1996 went to see romeo and juliet because they read it in ninth grade you know english they went because they wanted to see leo looking hot you know what i mean and he nailed it right so but maybe they watched it and went huh i should read this and it added something i don't know so here's the question though about her movies like we've talked about you read weathering heights as a teenager, you're confused, but kind of excited by it.

34:51You read it in your 20s or 30s and you're like, oh, this is way weirder and messed up than I ever thought. Are we going to, are the teenagers who are watching this film now going to revisit it in 10, 15 years or will they, at that point, will it seem kind of thin to them? Yeah, I guess the question here really is, And it's the same question you could give to Frankenstein, right? Is, are people reading in general? Because, you know, literacy, especially in the United States, literacy rates are so low. You basically read what you're forced to read in high school. And if you're not a lit major in college, most American adults read maybe one book a year.

35:36So the question is kind of almost a moot point in that no one's reading anything. Like they're not reading the people we meet on vacation either, you know, just because they watched that movie. So I guess it's like a layer of could it maybe that more likely this will get people to read Wuthering Heights than if they didn't see the movie because they're not reading it regardless. That's fair. Is that the best logic? No, it's kind of bleak, but it's your question about the audience. Maybe maybe this will go there a little bit. And Josh, back to you as well on, I mean, I want to say the production design, the boldness of some of those choices.

36:19That's the reason to see the movie. And I, for the most part, went with the musical elements, the score and the song choices. I liked the needle drops that we get here. But the the moment, for example, when Kathy goes to find Heathcliff when he's returned and she knows he's at Wuthering Heights and she's looking for him and it's too foggy to find him. And then she turns away the swoon shot. The camera, the camera's looking over her shoulder. And he emerges out of the fog. You know, that that's that's an incredible moment. You know, I read it to Emerald Fennell and to Linus Sandgren, the cinematographer, for giving us a shot like that.

37:02And you mentioned the walls, that she is put in a room where, if you just think about the ingenuity of that, she's put in a room where the wall, the design of the walls are the color of her skin down to the moles, the freckles or whatever. So that it's it's it's as if she truly blends in with her surroundings, removing all sense of her identity completely. And and and so that then we get a moment where we actually have those shots near the end with with leeches. And they're not only on her body, but on on her body on the wall. Yes, that is some beautiful and troubling, you know, imagery. And that's that's something I really respect that this movie gives us.

37:49And you were mentioning to the the lack of consistency, which I like in terms of some of the visual choices. You're right. We'll get we'll get moments that feel like they're completely out of a of a Tim Burton movie. sometimes the more fantastical ones where all of a sudden we've got that bright red, demonic red background where there's nothing about verisimilitude, right? It could be taken out of a graphic novel all of a sudden and it's reflecting more of a psychological reality than any kind of actual reality. Are you talking about the scene where the sky is red? The sky is red, those moments, yeah.

38:26So I think, and now I don't know her relationship to this movie, but I think that's an homage to to when Rhett shows up in Gone with the Wind. It's almost exactly the same Red. He's on a horse. He saves her, right? And I have the exact same relationships at Gone with the Wind that I have to Wuthering Heights. I watched Gone with the Wind when I was six. Did I know anything about slavery at that point in my life? No, I did not. Did I know that this movie was, this book and this movie were romanticizing Ante Mellon South in a way that's actually kind of disturbing? No, I did not. Did I know that Rhett Butler, you know, forcing Scarlet to sleep with him was actually spousal rate?

39:03No, I did not. Did I find Rhett Butler incredibly hot and want to like think about him? Yes. And was he in my head when I was reading the Byronic novels and the Bronte things and thinking the exact same thing? Yes. And so part of me wonders if she's doing, evoking some of these imageries specifically to remind us that when we're young, we're stupid and we romanticize abuse. I don't actually think she's trying to romanticize abuse. I think she's trying to remind us that abuse can seem romantic, especially when we're young. I don't know if that lands. I don't know if that's a folly to try. Sure.

39:38But I think that's what she's evoking. An homage like that could be absolutely what she's going for. Red is also a striking color that is employed quite a bit throughout the film in many scenes. But here's where I am at least going to go. And I'm going to go there partly because it gets back to what you're saying specifically about audiences and being a certain age when you're considering this material. And if that's the endeavor here, if that's the project, okay. And there's nothing more subjective than what I'm about to articulate. But then again, everything we're doing here is subjective. Okay.

40:11Josh, if this whole, if this whole project is about trying to heighten how romantic it is, then my question is, why isn't it more romantic? I think this is a profoundly unsexy movie. And I think it wants to be, it wants, it seems to want to push buttons. It wants to be transgressive. It wants to be deviantly sexy at times. And, and I, I just, the whole time I was wondering, how can a movie that, that seems to want so badly to titillate and to arouse, be as tame as this movie is. I don't think there's heat between Kathy and Heathcliff. Those glances when he's working in the stable before they become lovers, I don't think that when they become lovers, now there's one moment, I'll give you the one moment that's genuinely hot in this film, but when they become lovers, the most vanilla love scenes you could imagine, I would argue, and the scene that I would say has to do the most heavy lifting on this front or maybe I'll say harness the most especially because it comes so early in the film and it should tell us something about her, Kathy's sexual awakening as a character is the scene where she is acting as a voyeur where she is watching and listening to two characters in the barn engaging in, as you said in S &M.

41:44But in this moment, it's not just her watching or listening. She's also got Heathcliff on top of her from behind holding her mouth shut. And there are so many layers to this that I think could feel to a viewer could make you feel uncomfortable in the best way, uncomfortable in the way you want to feel uncomfortable as a viewer in the theater in this moment tantalizing teasing taunting everything everything kathy is feeling in that moment and i i can remember exactly how that scene is shot and edited in my mind and it seems so everything the opposite of what i just described and maybe maybe uh mariah maybe your explanation is the best one, which is that even though this is an R-rated movie, not a PG-13 movie, which would better explain it to me, maybe this is entry-level S &M.

42:48So, okay, I have two counters. Counter one, I think that you could interpret that scene as what it's like to read a book when you're 13 and you're viewing sex and sexuality through a lens and through a very small keyhole and you still don't understand it which is kind of how kathy is learning about sex herself right so then if you follow that through and you could choose to interpret it this way you don't have to um then the sex scenes aren't all that sexy because it's again what you picture at 13 like what i pictured sex well as when i was 13 and what it turned out to be did not align at all But there should be something that feels wrong about it.

43:32But it was closer to what she pictures. Like those imageries of like being in a carriage, being in the grass. Like that's what you picture when you're 13 and you've read nothing but like Hawthorne. That's true. Yes, that's true. And you don't actually like I, you know, I'm from the generation where if I wanted to watch porn, I would have to like find a VHS of it, right? this younger generation. So I don't know if it works with the younger generation because they've had access to like porn and quote, what sex looks like a lot more than millennials did. But I do think that she makes films from a millennial perspective.

44:06Okay. Yeah. I do just want to clarify when I say sexy, I mean more in this case, what I was saying about being uncomfortable. When you're that age, when you take in things that you're not ready to take in, it makes, it makes you feel naughty and that naughtiness, right can feel makes you feel different things right and and and that that sometimes can verge on sexiness even though it's not what we would think of now is perhaps sexy the other counter i want us to make is i do think and perhaps this is a short girl thing errol finnell is also short i'm putting this out there this scene where you know she gets she's thinking about it and she's watching the dough and then she goes and she masturbates and then he follows her and then he stands and his head is over her head it's the best use of jake willardy's height as an erotic image that i've ever seen one of the best uses of a man's height as an erotic image that i've ever seen and then he like picks her up by her corset that's the moment i don't think you could do yeah that him picking her up with one hand by the waist is like is incredible so incredible and And it really uses his height as the tall, dark, handsome, exactly what everyone pictures.

45:24But I think specifically what short girls tend to picture perfectly. Are you guys telling me Jacob Elordi is tall? I didn't get that sense at all from this movie. That's fascinating. So I can offer to this is it sexy or not question. I know you're joking, but I think, I truly think she likes filming with him because she's a short girl and to short girls, there's nothing sexier than a six foot four guy, short girls who like men. I will take your word for it. It really is. I'm not going to debate you on that. I can offer some research from my theater viewing to the sexy question. And it's another scene involving Elordi.

46:04All I can tell you is small theater we were at. I think it only has like maybe 60, maybe 75 seats. I think I was one of, before the lights went down, maybe five men. Wow. The scene with Isabella and Heathcliff where he's, I guess, proposing and he repeats, do you want me to stop? I don't know if I've been in a quieter theater. Yeah. After a hushed intake of breath in quite a long time. So just throwing that into our, you know, how sexy is this movie evidence. Not involving Kathy in Heathcliff, notably. It's a fascinating scene because I think it's definitely like - To Mariah's point about your experience of this whole story, which is heated and confusing and not right in many ways.

46:59I mean, you know, one of the more disturbing things is the way it does make sexuality violent and violence sexual. And this isn't the first time a finale movie has done this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely at play here as well. And that scene, I think what's so unnerving, especially for modern audiences about that scene, is he's technically asking for her consent. Right? And we're not 100 instead of being a rapist or whatever he is. Right. He is like over and over asking for her consent. And it's still it's not 100 percent clear. I think Fennell and Oliver make it leave room for ambiguity as to whether she really is consenting or if she's just like, sure.

47:48Or, you know, like, because his height is again, that's where his height is then subverted because it's no longer sexy and now a little bit threatening. It's interesting. I mean, it goes back to my theory. I think the Isabella and Heathcliff relationship is more evocative of what the book is about than the Catherine Heathcliff. I also I liked that you said that because one of the threads that the film kind of drops because almost every film drops the second half of the book is sort of the inherited trauma. Right. But what excises a whole generation. Yeah. Where I think she brings that in, she folds it in just a little here is is the way that she presents their childhood where Heathcliff is presented to Kathy as a pet.

48:33right and Isabella and in the book she's his uh sister but here she's um Edgar's ward and in a sense she is kept as a pet who or you know pampered and then is presented Kathy as her own sort of pet she's or as a doll really because she's dressing her she's so it's not quite the same compounded generational rot that the novel does. But I do think that's a reflection of those themes folded into the first half. I think Fennell is absolutely trying to get as much of that second half in there as she can while still ending it with the climatic scene that almost every movie ends with. Yeah, I think it's a reflection of possibly what Emerald Fennell was going for with this film that we have a range of reactions to this movie here amongst our panel.

49:27I do think I can't remember which one of you said it that she's an interesting filmmaker. Is that what you said, Josh? Was it you? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven't been like, I haven't been bowled over by anything she's done, but I'm continually intrigued. Yeah, I think her strongest suit is that she throws everything, all her ideas, she just throws them all out there. Does it all work? I don't know. But I think there's value in a filmmaker who, one, is getting people to see her films. Like Saltburn, Normies were talking about Saltburn. I remember I went to a film festival. Oh, it was Refocus. I was at Refocus when I came out.

50:03And I was shopping at one of the little shops and someone asked why I was in town. I said I was here at the festival and they were like, oh, you know, I saw a movie I really liked and I don't really watch many movies. And it was salt burn. And I was that was not the movie I was expecting this person to mention. So, you know, I think there's some things to be said for a filmmaker who, one, gets people to just actually discuss film instead of come and go. And two, gets average people a little excited. there's I think there's value in that especially in an ecosystem where films are treated like commodities and not like art that's worth discussing Wuthering Heights is currently out in wide release people are seeing it people are discussing it if you see it and would like to discuss it with us agree disagree with any of our takes we would love to hear from you feedback at filmspotting.net we thank Mariah for her candor for her insights as always it was fun as always thanks for having me

51:02Adam, our film spotting family members are the ones who keep this show going. So we want to give thanks to a couple of them here really quickly. Thank you to family plus member, Ryan Saylor from Bakersfield, California and family member Ava Isabel in Puerto Rico for supporting the show. Ryan shared this with us. I've listened for a number of years now. At the time I was looking for a film podcast and someone on Reddit said you guys were the best. So I tuned in for an end of the year episode and the rest is history. We also heard this from Ava been listening to you guys for about 10 years started during the boyhood versus birdman award battle.

51:43So is that, is that back when we were pairing Oscar nominees against each other, Adam? I think she just means more in the, the larger discourse. I don't know that we really battled about it though you i think you were more pro birdman than boyhood i decidedly was not that's that's why i was curious i'm pro on both to be sure but i i have rated boyhood higher so okay i think birdman brought a knife to that gunfight but we will move on ava's favorite show segment the top five how about this sam must be so happy the top five back-to-back movies we did josh 2015 episode 559. So best director back-to-back movies, Coppola, Nolan, Spielberg, Ridley Scott, Tarantino.

52:32No, I can't think of any off the top of my head that would have made that list. But yeah, that's what we were doing. Just any two movies back-to-back from any filmmaker. Any two back-to-back. So is Sam's note here asking us, would we add anyone? No. Gosh, no. I think, I mean, it's got to be Gerwig, right? In terms of back to back. Okay. Thank you. You're right. Thank you for actually doing the thinking. Lady Bird, Lady Bird, then Little Women. That's my number one. And then Barbie for me. I mean, it's like, yeah. So not bad at all. Okay. Not bad. You're right. Ryan says the anniversary revisit of Taxi Driver somehow gave me even more to appreciate about one of the greatest and most prescient films ever made.

53:16So Ryan's thinking of the seven from 76 review we did episode eight, 16. We also like to ask our new family members for a movie that they credit with making them a cinephile. Ava said in glorious bastards and Ryan said, it's my all time favorite for a reason. I saw the expectations versus reality sequence from 500 days of summer as a budding cinephile in high school and immediately blossomed. Okay. Thank you, Ava and Ryan for being family members. And for all of those years of listening, you can follow Ava on Letterboxd at Ava is afraid. And Ryan is at Ryan loves film. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, membership does come with perks.

53:58You get to listen early and ad free. You get our weekly newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities like being part of the film spotting family discord, and you get monthly bonus shows. Just before we sat down to record this very episode, we taped a segment with producer Sam, February's bonus episode, Blindspotting. We do that every February and August. We're making this a habit, apparently, for the second Blindspotting in a row. We talked about a Kurosawa film that none of us have seen, Drunken Angel. Turned out to be a pretty good conversation. Who would have thunk it? yeah I don't think any family members are going to complain that they get more Kurosawa talk so that was a good one more information about joining the film spotting family is available at filmspottingfamily.com and of course if you'd like to rate or review us we love getting positive ratings and reviews you can do that at apple podcasts or spotify I don't know why I wandered after this part of Texas drunk and you took me in and pitted me and helped me to straighten out maybe

55:30Why? Why did that happen? He was born in January 1930 in San Bernardino, California. A year later, January 1931, Duvall was born just about two hours south in San Diego. They both passed away at 95. Yeah. And for those who might be curious, Sam did a little research on this. Apparently, they only appeared in two films together. So The Conversation, Duvall uncredited there. And then I don't think any of us would have guessed this. in 1993's Geronimo, an American legend, that one directed by Walter Hill and yeah, both Hackman and Duvall in it. How about that auspicious start to Duvall's career, 1962 to kill a mockingbird?

56:13Yes, he was Boo Radley. That was his first film appearance, a seven-time Oscar nominee, won for best actor in 84 for tender mercies. And we probably remember him best as Tom Hagen in The Godfather, but Kilgore, Colonel Kilgore in Apocalypse Now, Frank Hackett in Network, the great Santini. He is the great Santini. And I've never seen it, but maybe now I'm going to have to correct that, Josh. Gus McRae in Lonesome Dove on TV. I know in addition to Lonesome Dove, I surely do have some Robert Duvall blind spots and we're going to have to set a date, I'm guessing, and start our homework to prepare for a Robert Duvall top five?

56:57Absolutely. And to the Hackman point, we've been doing way too many of these within the last year. For me, the place I got to start is Tender Mercies. I have never seen Tender Mercies. I haven't either. And about a musician. I love movies about musicians, even though it's not about a real musician still. I'm sure I have more beyond that, but that's probably where it starts. So, yeah, we will get to that list for sure fairly soon here. Yeah, the same day, the same day we lost Robert Duvall. I was going to say one of the heavyweights, but maybe the heavyweight of documentary filmmaking. Frederick Wiseman.

57:32He was 96. So, I mean, both of these men lived very long and very fruitful lives. But Wiseman, someone I discovered early in my film student career, watching high school in the 1960s, or the film came out in the 1960s. But of course, he made Titicot Follies and Hospital and Welfare and Central Park. And recently, I don't know if I had it in my top 10 or it was an honorable mention, but I'm probably going to butcher the French. But in the 2020s, they made Menu Plaisir Le Trois Gros, which was about a French restaurant. And of course, he's all about he's all about showing you how institutions and systems operate.

58:15And it's it seems like it's needed now more than ever, Josh. So it's a big loss. Oh, yeah. That context, you know, you just threw in there at the end actually is very telling and is why we probably should do a Wiseman. marathon. I know we're in the midst of having family members, I believe vote on our marathon pretty soon. Yeah. Options. And we obviously did not throw this in because this just, this news just came out, but, um, I could use a marathon. You sound like you're pretty good on Wiseman. I've only seen one. There's so many though. No, there's so many, but you've seen more than me. I've seen one.

58:53I saw in Jackson Heights at the Toronto film festival that year and was so new of his reputation, but it was one of those cases where you're late to seeing someone with a reputation and yet you are still kind of floored by what I think it made my top 10 that year. So yeah, I don't know that it will happen a marathon, but as many people are probably going to embark on at least seeing one of his films, this has been going around on social media. Do you have of the ones you've seen, Adam, a starting place you'd recommend? I mean, I it's the place I started and I would say it still feels like it's essential.

59:33It is the one that I feel like film students are most often shown, but it's also early in his career. It feels like Wiseman at a point where he's obviously still figuring it out to some extent as a filmmaker, but he's he's pushed the medium a little bit past what he was doing with Titicut Follies. And that would be high school. High school is the one I would tell people to definitely start with. Yeah. There's so much though that Wiseman has made and chronicled over his life. I mean, talk about someone who has told the story. Obviously, he's told other stories too, but has really, I think, chronicled American life in all its forms through institutions.

1:00:16It's Wiseman. Yeah, my perception. And again, I've seen probably as much Ken Burns as I've seen Wiseman, but he almost seems like a parallel and maybe a different approach to the American story than what you get in something from Ken Burns. Yeah, I think that's definitely fair. So we'll see if we do ever embark on that Wiseman marathon. The only problem with Wiseman films, and this isn't true with movies like High School, but progressively the movies do become considerably longer. Oh, they're massive. Yeah. They're massive. You can get three, four, five, six hours. So that makes it a little bit prohibitive with our marathons.

1:00:54But you did mention the marathons and we haven't thrown this out to the family yet. The family is going to get the entire Film Spotting Advisory Board call. They'll hear that audio. So they'll hear us discuss these. They'll get to vote on these. They'll get to deliberate on the options. But we might as well go ahead and throw this out to everybody now. We did narrow it down after that advisory board call in between the three of us. We narrowed it down to four options for our 2026 marathon that we feel really good about, I think, as a group. And based on what I'm seeing in the discord, our family members also feel really good about.

1:01:34And those four options are what we're calling for now the Actresses Studio, effectively Method Actresses of the 50s and 60s. So films of Joanne Woodward, Marilyn Monroe, Lee Remick, Geraldine Page, think of those performers. Brazilian cinema, which was a recommendation of one of our advisory board members. so much to dig into there over several decades. Josh, why don't you go ahead and say what it is briefly, your top pick of dissident cinema. Yeah, dissident cinema, just films that are critiquing or pushing back against government abuse, overreach. Other countries around the world have been living with this throughout their history.

1:02:28And in the U S it's been something that certain populations have lived with throughout the United States history, but all of us increasingly are. And so it seemed topical to me to look back at films, not only set in the U S I think it was helpful, Adam, from the film spotting advisory board meeting to expand this and say, if you were going to do a marathon like this, let's make it global. And so let's look at, you know, obviously European wrestling with this around the time of world war two. Um, but even speaking to the Brazilian question, South American or, or perhaps, you know, Korean concerns tackling these issues film.

1:03:07So that's where we'd go with the dissonant cinema option. Yeah. And the fourth option post-war Japanese cinema, but beyond Kurosawa and Ozu and look, We still have Ozu and Kurosawa Blindspots, but we have seen a fair number of films by those masters. How do we get outside that realm a little bit? We watched a Mizuguchi film as part of a recent marathon, Sancho the Bailiff, and we both loved it. But Yugetsu is an all-timer or regarded as an all-timer. That would be part of this marathon, maybe even the first film in the marathon. Floating Clouds by Nurusei, Kinoshita, Kobayashi, Tesho Gahara, some of these other very well-known, very highly regarded Japanese filmmakers, but not the ones who usually get mentioned first or second.

1:03:58That's who we'd be covering. Yeah, it's a great bunch. And again, just a reminder, you know, Film Spotting family members get to vote and actually determine where we land. So if you're not a member of the family, filmspottingfamily.com, sign up and get a chance to be a part of decisions like this. Next week here on FilmSpotting, something we haven't had on the show in a while, and it's not for a lack of opportunity or really a lack of interest. It's really just a lack of time, and I finally had the time. We're going to share my conversation with documentary director Morgan Neville, really one of our most well-known documentarians.

1:04:40Won't You Be My Neighbor was the Mr. Rogers documentary from 28, 20 Feet from Stardom. 2013 was the Oscar winner. The Anthony Bourdain documentary Roadrunner from 2021. I spoke to him about his new film, Paul McCartney, Man on the Run. And I was interested in talking to Neville because we're interested in documentary as a form. We're interested in musicians, but also we're very interested in Paul McCartney. Turns out after interviewing him, we're also interested in the bass as an instrument. We both play. So we had a lot in common. We had a really fun conversation. I wish we had a chance actually to talk a little bit longer, but you'll hear that conversation where we'll dig into his movie, which as you may have gleaned from the title, Man on the Run, it's a look just at that period right after the Beatles split up until John Lennon's death, where he made solo albums, created wings and put out all of those albums.

1:05:40And also, of course, married Linda McCartney and started a family. And it's a lot that the movie chronicles. So look forward to that next week on the show, my conversation with him. We will also have our top five Catherine O 'Hara characters. Speaking of, again, great performers who have recently passed away, unfortunately. But we will have some fun paying tribute to her next week. Absolutely. If you want to keep up with all our future episodes, you can find those listed at filmspotting.net. Adam, last call. I want to give out a last call because a Copenhagen meetup is probably going to happen.

1:06:22I've heard from three listeners who are interested. Yeah, I was going to say at least three emails. Yeah, three emails. And they'll tell me how to say if it is a Copenhagen, Copenhagen. I'm going to say it's Hagen. Probably. Okay. You'd like to say Hagen. I say Hagen. Tomato, tomato. motto. We'll get that verified by the listeners. We're circling right now, haven't heard back from all three of them, Saturday, March 7th. So if this is the first you're hearing of it and you are in the area, go ahead and send an email to feedback at filmspotting.net or find me on social Larson on film, Larson with an E.

1:06:56All right, Adam, next picture show. How about this? We touched briefly on the Romeo and Juliet references in the new Wuthering Heights. Well, our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at cinema's present via its past, they were way ahead of us. They are right now having part one of their pop classics pairing, and they're talking about Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet from 1996. Mariah Gates brought that up and Luhrmann's influence on Emerald Fennell as well. And then, of course, after that, their next episode, the following episode, They will get to Wuthering Heights itself. New episodes of the next picture show drop every Tuesday and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1:07:38You know what they put on French fries and Holland instead of ketchup? Or what? Maynames? I've seen them do it, man. They've drowned them in this shit.

1:07:51It is time for poll results. A couple of weeks ago in anticipation of our 30th anniversary review of Trainspotting, We asked you, we thought it was a simple question. Choose life. Choose a 90s movie soundtrack. The options were Clueless, Dazed and Confused, The Crow, Pulp Fiction, Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet. There it is again. Reality Bites, Singles, Trainspotting, or you could go Other and Write It In. And I don't want to spoil the results here, Josh, but other did other did better than it usually does in these polls. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And understandably, I mean, as we discussed when we first laid out this poll, so many options and so many personal experiences of the soundtracks of this time.

1:08:41Speaking of which, I'm going to read the results, Adam, and express, you know, how I feel about them based on whether I own the CD. So last place, Reality Bites, 3%. Hurts. Hurts. I had Reality Bites. Listened to it quite a bit. Clueless, 4%. Didn't have that one. So fine. Singles, 9%. Didn't have that either. The Crow didn't have that. Loved hearing producer Sam's affection for the Crow soundtrack, 10%. Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet also at 10%. So a tie there. Dazed and Confused, 12%. That whole bunch, I did not own. So that's fine that they're at the end here. Other did place with 13%. And here are some of the write-ins.

1:09:26Reservoir Dogs, Jackie Brown. Rushmore, Judgment Night. Crooklyn, Empire Records, Until the End of the World. Natural Born Killers, Mall Rats, Sleepless in Seattle, Lost Highway, Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Pump Up the Volume, Gross Point Blank. And 10 things I hate about you. I think this is Sam's note here, given the plethora of other write-ins. How did no one write in, So I Married an Axe Murder? Can you name a band, Adam, on the So I Married an Axe Murder soundtrack? No, I cannot. Sorry. Elastica? Didn't own it. Is that a band? Yeah, it definitely is. I think that was a 90s band, right? Okay.

1:10:08All right. So let's get to the top here where things were pretty tight. In second place, 16 % of the vote was train spotting, but that meant Pulp Fiction won this poll with 24 % of the vote. That feels right. It feels right that those two were at the top and to have all those options and for Pulp Fiction to take a quarter of the votes, that's pretty impressive. And we're going to share Troy Taylor here. This is a response that Sam actually shared in the film spotting newsletter a little while back. It's a good one. And for people alive during the 90s, our choice is going to be heavily influenced by the soundtrack we happen to choose in the CD store with our limited music funds.

1:10:48You might have wanted to listen to all these soundtracks, but you couldn't buy them all. So whichever one you settled on will be the one you listen to, which will make it the one you're most attached to. For me, that would be Romeo and Juliet. All these soundtrack choices are solid, but this is the soundtrack I bought. So when it comes on, I'm whisked back to days driving in my black 95 Monte Carlo with friends as an immortal young adult. And that's what makes it the superior soundtrack. Substitute an 89 Honda Accord that I bought from my parents, Troy. And you're speaking my language. Yeah, not all of us had a black Monte Carlo.

1:11:24Yeah, really. But I did have, you hit the button and the headlights like popped up, you know? Ooh, pretty cool. Scott G. weighed in. Of course, any young movie buff in the 90s had to have that Pulp Fiction CD. Yeah, it's true, Scott. But us truly cool cinema fans were already on board with Tarantino's song selection skills because we'd been playing the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack on repeat for the previous two years, not to mention watching the VHS of the movie itself at least once per week. I love Scott pulling in the, you know, just waiting in the background while everyone talks about how much they like this album and then jumping in like, well, have you heard their first album?

1:12:04You know what, though? He's right. I like and liked Reservoir Dogs, that soundtrack, better. I liked it better than Pulp Fiction. I swear to God, I listen to it way more often than Pulp Fiction. Little Green Bag, off the jump, Little Green Bag. Look at this guy. You've got Magic Carpet Ride, Fool for Love, Stuck in the Middle with You, Harvest Moon. You've got Coconut. Come on. Harry Nilsson's Coconut at the end? That's all great, Adam, but have you ever listened to the soundtrack for Tarantino's short film he made that was never distributed? That is the best soundtrack of all time. I don't believe you.

1:12:42So, you know. Well, Jefferson's going to one-up everybody, even you. Pulp Fiction isn't the best Tarantino soundtrack of the decade. It's the Jackie Brown soundtrack. I still own it on tape, even though I no longer own a tape deck. Considering Jackie Brown is the best Tarantino film, I think Jefferson is on something. here's Nicole Novak going with Trainspotting because it was the film that made me a cinephile and the soundtrack made me a lover of Britpop I saw the movie with a group of friends and half of us exited the theater with our minds blown me and the other half wondering what they had just sat through I immediately went out and bought the soundtrack on CD it's a no skips iconic collection of music that to this day immediately transports me back to the exact spot in the movie where it's played choose life, choose train spotting.

1:13:31And I think Nicole has, she has really nailed something with the no skips idea. I mean, if you get a soundtrack, that's no skips. That's top notch. It's kind of like, I remember when we used to buy CDs back to Troy's point about spending your money. Cause like it was this, you just had to make an actual purchase. You couldn't stream it. And I remember thinking, if I get five songs I love on this album, that was a good investment. I think that's the right number. You're right. You get a no skips, you're doing great. Yeah, that's primo. You're right. Sean Muldoon is going to expand on Nicole's thoughts.

1:14:08Look, guys, you often joke about the deeply flawed polls, but this might be your most flawed one yet. Not because the options are bad or you're missing a clear winner, but because Trainspotting is so far and away the only right winner. Trainspotting is the one movie on this list where the film felt like it was the defining document of a cultural and musical moment. As Britpop took over the UK, everyone abroad was trying to find a way to capitalize on it, whether it was the reemergence of Bond with GoldenEye or Tony Blair's New Labor or the commercialized version of Britpop via the Spice Girls.

1:14:37Danny Boyle was the one filmmaker who understood the working class backgrounds and themes of artists like Pulp and Oasis that captured the kind of hedonistic attitude of those bands that understood the musical influences on the movement that was happening, Bowie, New Order, and found the perfect novel to adapt for that moment. Plus, name any of those movies listed that have a scene so singularly built around its music as Trainspotting's opening of Lust for Life or closing of Born Slippy. Like, come on, guys. What are we doing here? And what's funny here is I could give him one for sure. And you know what it is?

1:15:11It's stuck in the middle with you from Reservoir Dogs. I suppose. I think Sean has a very strong thesis there. Here's Jonathan Anderson in Denver. As far as licensed needle drop soundtrack albums, there is no better than The Crow. Oh, Sam Sport here. Thank you. I will not be accepting questions at this time. Okay. Jim McMahon. I went with singles in this flawed poll with the flawed reasoning that it's very much of its early nineties era, as opposed to a crate dive. I got it a month before I went off to college and proudly tacked the long box up on my wall, which now feels like the most on the nose, early nineties thing I could have done.

1:15:53Oh my gosh, Jim. Mm-hmm. Uh, my flashbacks. I'm having intense flashbacks of which year was it? Yeah. Sophomore year college, the entire wall against my bed was just cut out long box covers taped as wallpaper. Okay. I forgot. I think I said this when we announced this poll singles and Pulp Fiction, I think are the only two on this list that I owned. So I love the singles love. Patrick says, I chose Romeo and Juliet because of how well the music works within the movie. I don't know if I've ever listened to it on my own, but to hear Garbage's number one crush, The Cardigan's Love Fool, and Desiree's Kissing You within the movie was and is sublime.

1:16:42Baz can be a lot for me. With this one, his best, I never tire of it. Here's Julio Oliveira. I hate that my beloved Reality Bites is getting slaughtered. Yeah, I know, Julio. Come on, my Sharona and Lisa Loeb stay in one disc? I also owned, probably still own, Pulp Fiction, Clueless, and Trainspotting, but none of them got as much play as the Reality Bites disc. A few more here. They're all so good. Peter Ralston in Brisbane, Australia. I was in the supermarket when I heard there would be a poll on 90s movie soundtracks and did my best not to punch the air. I thought I was alone in my appreciation of 90s soundtracks.

1:17:16They outnumber all other decade soundtracks combined at our house. The soundtrack I voted for was the CD I played so much I wore it out until the end of the world. it's the one that would always prompt someone to stop the conversation abruptly and ask what are we listening to this is great so great it was the music they would play for years at the warana cinema up in townsville in that cool red velvet curtain space before the movie came on sweet oblivion from start to finish and josh you're so cool because i know you love this one and this is a vim vendors movie not only have i not heard the soundtrack i've never seen the movie I mean, it's just, yeah, I listed when we first talked about this poll, like Depeche Mode, R.E.M., Talking Heads, Lou Reed, and The Mood.

1:18:01It's like all the songs, you know, you can get these soundtracks where they're going in different places, each song, right? Capturing different scenes. to me when I think of Until the End of the World, it's just this sort of apocalyptic mood that every song captures in its own way from iconic artists. So hard to argue with that. Good stuff. All right. Where are we at here? We were just bombarded with feedback. Darren, let's go to Darren. Natural Born Killers is the first title that comes to mind when I think of 90s soundtracks. Not only did it bring Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen, and Nine Inch Nails into my 17-year-old taste, It also managed to have Patsy Cline, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, and Jane's Addiction.

1:18:45Somehow makes sense within a 10-minute span. So many of these 90s soundtracks, yes, I owned every single one of those listed here, incorporated dialogue from the movie. But I can't hear the Cowboy Junkies' Sweet Jane without also hearing Woody Harrelson's Mickey announce the whole world's coming to an end, Mal. And You Belong to Me may be one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs, even though I'm pretty sure I've only heard it with Mickey and Mallory talking through it. I forgot about that detail. Yeah, the dialogue thing. Yeah, yeah. The last two here. Michael, the Empire Records soundtrack is so great it could be contained on the official soundtrack release.

1:19:19So I burned a CD with over a dozen songs in the movie that weren't included on the official soundtrack. It's also an album that reflects the diversity of music tastes of the characters. Ethan Embry's Mark, for instance, is more into punk and thrash metal, so you get an eclectic mix. You've got the gin blossoms, the cranberries, toad, the wet sprocket, guar, coyote shivers. And of course the fictional Rex Manning, it's full of bangers. Oh man. Gin blossoms. Wow. Okay. Last comment. Maxwell Fletcher. I just had to throw a vote in for the underseen Spike Lee gem Crooklyn. The semi autobiographical movie centers on growing up in 1970s Brooklyn.

1:19:56And the double disc soundtrack is absolutely overflowing with some of the best R &B from that time. The Staple Singers, Stevie Wonder, The Stylistics, James Brown, Sly and the Family Stone, the JBs. The list just keeps going. I was probably 11 or 12 when I saw the movie, and the nonstop bangers hooked me immediately. It doesn't hurt that this coming-of-age movie is vibrant, sweet, tender, and I think it's one of Spike's best. I'm probably the only one with this write-in, but perhaps it will prompt a few folks out there to seek it out. If nothing else, your ears will thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Maxwell.

1:20:31I think I think that might be the one I'm going to next after this. Yeah. Yeah. I can I can see that. I'm glad to be reminded of how good that is as well. We think everyone who voted and who left a comment. Sorry if we didn't get to you. It is time for a new poll, though. It's not really a new poll. I think we started this maybe last year, maybe even the year before. It's a ballot. We're looking for your official Academy of Film Spotting listeners. Best picture ballot. Our Oscar special is coming up. So you've got 10 nominees and your job is to make sure that you've watched them all and then rank them rather than just giving you a poll where you can only select one option.

1:21:08We're giving you a survey where you can drag and rank them. Tell us the order. Submit your ballot. Look at that technology. So that's the Academy of Film Spotting Listeners Best Picture. That's the AFLBB. Yes. Let's go with that. Officially. We're not going to list them all. you know them or can look them up in two weeks on our oscar special we'll we'll probably share our picks when we get to best picture our exact order but we'll talk about who will win more importantly who should win who should have been nominated michael phillips he typically joins us i guess i should harass him about that and make sure that he's available yeah haven't done that man down come on yeah i haven't done that yet you can submit your ballot and leave a comment at filmspotting.net results and your feedback on that show in a couple of weeks.

1:22:01I am packing my belongings in the shawl my mother used to wear when she went to the market, and I am going from my valet. This time, I shall never return. I am leaving behind me my 50 years of memory. The Pantheon Project officially commences. Last week, Me, you, producer Sam nominated nine films for the film spotting pantheon. Six of them have been reviewed, have been discussed in depth by you and me on the show. The Battle of Algiers, Harlan County, USA, The Best Years of Our Lives, Cleo from 5 to 7, Stop Making Sense, and Abbas Kirastami's Close Up. It's a good list. To be eligible, there are three others that still need reviews.

1:22:49Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon. It was part of a marathon, but you weren't part of that marathon, Josh. That was a long time ago. Kelly Reichert's Meeks Cutoff, reviewed here on this show, but also before your time. And now the film we're about to talk about, your wildcard choice, Josh, a movie, John Ford's How Green Was My Valley from 1941, that not only has never been reviewed in any form here on the show, a movie that I've never seen until now. I just wanted to do you a favor, Adam. I wanted to give you an excuse to knock out a blind spot, a John Ford blind spot, no less. So this film is set in a coal mining community in rural Wales at the turn of the 20th century.

1:23:34It won five Oscars, including Ford's second consecutive for best director. He had won for the grapes of breath a year earlier. So yeah, Yeah, I think we have to start with your first impressions, Adam. And I don't know, maybe some good context is just what your understanding or perception of the movie was before watching it and then what you made of the actual film itself. Well, I don't know at what point it exactly was, but I certainly in more recent years came to recognize that it was a film that is widely admired. But prior to that, it was kind of a punchline or that's how I thought of it, right?

1:24:19Citizen Kane got beat by how green was my valley. The name even is part of it. The name sounds so quaint, right? And so unassuming. If the Academy was going to screw up, if the Academy was going to get something that monumentally wrong, it would be for a movie or over a movie called How Green Was My Valley. Just really wrong. Right. Just so misguided. Well, you know what? It isn't Citizen Kane. But it doesn't matter because it's still a pretty great film. Yes. I'm really grateful I saw. And I hate to pile on the movie we talked about originally here, but I'm watching this back to back with Wuthering Heights.

1:25:10And I'm thinking about it in relation to that film because they're both based on novels. They're both really tied to place. They're intimate in that way, yet quite large in scale when you consider the number of characters and all the story elements. everything that happens to all these characters, the complexity of what has to be conveyed about these people and their relationships and their needs and their desires. And one of those films, I came away starving for more. And the other one, this one, my plate somehow was full. what i think ford and and the screenwriter philip dunn this is my best explanation anyway but the fact is it's one of those movies that i immediately after watching it felt like i can't wait to watch again and i know we say that or you can't say that about any really good film but it it really was one of those cases where i felt like i have to go back and watch it and and figure out figure out how they're doing this.

1:26:18Yeah. How, how they're these elements of classical Hollywood filmmaking, but then also the ways that John Ford is, is applying his own techniques and doing things very different than a lot of classical Hollywood filmmakers would do. How, how is he pulling off everything I just described the complexity of all that and making it look easy. But, but for me, what I'm going to argue anyway, is that what I think he and the screenwriter here, Philip Dunn understood adapting the material. What I think the director of photography here, because he's a key collaborator in this, Arthur Miller is his name.

1:26:53Obviously, Richard Llewellyn must have portrayed this in the novel, is the extent to which life, all of life really, but especially in this village and in small villages like this one, are driven by ritual. family family is ritual how you get clean after work and prepare for dinner how how you eat dinner everyone has a prescribed role and routine what what weekends are like in the morgan home church is ritual what you get dressed to wear where you sit how you pray work work of course at the coal mine is ritual. And even if you're not going to work in the coal mine, if you're one of the wives who stays home, you have your ritual.

1:27:44You have your routine where you put the boots out and the, the lunch, the breakfast you prepare and the lunch you prepare, but it's all routine, right? Ritual up the hill, down the hill, down the mine, up the mine, clock in, clock out at the end of the week, you get in line, you get paid. You sing songs on the way up the hill. You You sing songs down the hill. You sing songs at church. You sing songs at weddings. And what the movie reckons with then, of course, and this goes back to the title and the opening narration, is what happens when those rituals are disrupted and eventually are discarded forever.

1:28:25As they ultimately, inevitably, always are going to be. That loss. And I think I think it's not just in the material. What I'm arguing, Josh, is that it's not just in the material. Clearly, it is. I think it's how acutely Ford shows it, how he draws our attention to it. It's in the deep focus, the use of the depth of field and the takes aren't exceptionally long. Like he's not drawing your attention to a bunch of ostentatious takes, right? Or the camera's doing a lot of movement, but the takes are long enough that we, we sit with these characters. We observe, we see the landscape here again, the depth of the landscape around the village, the village itself.

1:29:14I felt like I knew the topography of this entire place. Like I, right. I knew where everyone lived every relation to each other. Right. The distance between the coal mine and Evo's home and the Morgan home. I knew the landscape of the Morgan house. And more importantly, then within all of that, it was about watching human behavior, watching the human behavior in all those spaces within all of those rituals. And I think that's what I just kept coming back to and what I kept being so moved by. It was just even like the physicality in the gestures and the repetition of those things and the repetition of certain phrases.

1:30:00It just seemed to so understand and capture the rhythms of life. And it's one of those cases where, and lots of people have said this, and I've said it here on the show too, right? I think it's, I think it is a universal truth that the more specific something is, the more general it is, the more universal it is. And the more specific this movie is in capturing what life was like at this time for these people in this specific place, the more it felt applicable to me in my own life, even, even though I can't relate in any direct way to these characters who are working every day in a coal mine. Nevertheless, I felt it.

1:30:44I felt what these characters were going through, and I felt like I could relate to it in my own life. I think that your discussion of ritual just opened up for me why I responded to this movie initially, the first time I saw it maybe, I don't know, six years ago now, so deeply as I did, which, yeah, I'm going to give my, the back of my brain a little time to process and then I'll express, but I want to go in another direction right now because part of that ritual you mentioned was the songs. And that stood out to me the first time. And this time I thought, I think by the third time characters were actively singing in character.

1:31:28These aren't like, Like we have moments where we hear the characters singing kind of on the soundtrack, right? But there are so many moments where characters on the screen are actively singing, which is part of the ritual you discussed. And by the second or third one on this viewing, Adam, I was like, I'm going to count these because I'm just curious how many we have. And so this comes, this ranges from what you said, coming home from the mines to a wedding where the people are singing at the wedding. That night at the wedding party, the Morgan father doing his, he's walking the line drunken song and singing on the way to church.

1:32:10I mean, there's just singing throughout this movie.

1:32:29just over under guess for me. Are there, I'm going to put the over under at six songs where characters are actively singing in a scene. I mean, I, I will go over that feels like it has to be over. Yeah. I think if I may have missed one or two, but it was 10 to my count, 10 times where this is a central element of a sequence. And I think that speaks to a couple of things. I think it speaks to the ritual aspect, which you astutely pointed out. I think it also speaks to one of the general themes of this movie, which is the individual versus the community. And notice that all of these songs are group songs.

1:33:16There are no solos. So every one of these is the community of some sort singing together. The compositions in this picture and the emphasis on communal composition. So when the mine workers are reading that notice that's posted about their wages being reduced, and it's not just one guy reading it and then turning around and shouting, hey, our wages. It's like 40 men, their coal-dusted hats in the frame, all looking at the sign. right? And you can have the many times guests come to the Morgan's house. This is the central family. We haven't given much of the plot, but it basically centers around one family in this town of, I don't know, maybe six brothers.

1:34:06I think it might be in one sister. And it's through the perspective of the youngest brother, Hugh, all the times that people gather in their home. And then of course the church scenes, congregants at church. There was a striking moment on this view, Adam, that was a contrast to this, to this, all these communal shots. And remember when the brothers, this is talk of a union forming and the father of this family is against it because he's a traditionalist. Many reasons he doesn't approve of this. The sons, the grown sons are all in favor and they have a dinner argument over the dinner table and the sons stand up and one by one leave.

1:34:44and there is a single shot of the father, Morgan, by himself. And then we cut to a shot of all alone Hugh, the youngest son, who's our perspective. And the father says to him, yes, my son, I know you are there. And just that emphasizes that the importance of community, because the father wants to desperately hold on to the one person who is still with him. individualism, even to the father in holding his perspective is not as valuable as communal agreement is. And ritual is a part of that. As you said, ritual holds that together. And I think Adam, as you know, why should this movie affect me so much?

1:35:32It's in another country in another time from the research I've done, it may not even be that accurate to what it's, what it was like to mine in a Welsh village at that time. Right. The author apparently did not come from that background. And sure. You know, this is what I'm finding. Totally romanticized. Yeah. Romanticized. Thank you. Yeah. But I come from a family who for three generations had the same rituals tied to these things. And my generation is when that has been broken and it's been broken for reasons. a whole bunch of reasons I don't need to get into. They're not all negative reasons.

1:36:12They're good reasons. They're necessary reasons. They're practical reasons. They're cultural reasons. They're political reasons. I mean, I'm not trying to draw a stark line. I'm not saying it didn't need to happen, but it happened. And so I look back at a movie like this and it's like, wow, this is the sort of stuff that's been lost. Now, I will also say what I like about this movie is it's not purely nostalgic. It's not just glamorizing that. It is also recognizing the difficulties, the losses that happen within those rituals. So to go back to your early response about your perception of this movie, you can see why it was considered corny.

1:36:57And some elements might be corny. It's very sincere, but I don't think it's naive. I think it's also a very wide-eyed movie about the losses that come even to a community that tries to stay together through ritual. So I think it's pretty sophisticated on that front. I agree because it understands that it can't hold, that it can't hold. It's impossible that no matter how hard you try, that it, it will fade, that, that these rituals and that the family unit will, will eventually have to disband the, the things you cling to as the, the touchstones of your youth will fade. And in that way, I don't think it is.

1:37:44I don't think it is naive. And Josh, I'll say to to your point, even, you know, I'll just say this generally, because I think I can say it somewhat from my own experience, but also other families that I know if even if you're someone who has overall, if you think back on your childhood and you don't necessarily think about it like it was all sunshine and roses, maybe the family was mostly dysfunctional. It wasn't, let's just say it wasn't the Morgan household for the most part, right? Where, you know, everybody seems to have gotten along with each other great and, and there's, there's just pure, pure love.

1:38:21And for the most part, it seems bliss in this home. When, when those people, when you get together, what are the things you reminisce about and what do you talk about and think about fondly? You think about, you think about the rituals. You think about dinners. You think about the Saturday mornings. You think about the things that you remember that we did as a unit that were always the same, that were consistent, right? Remember when dad always did this. Remember when Sheila, whoever, always would do this, right? Those are the things you remember. Those are the things you think about. I think it's really poignant in this movie, for example.

1:39:04there are two points where two of the older brother, the two oldest in the family who, to your point earlier, are at odds with their, their father. And they, at, at these two moments say to their dad, and one time he obliges and one time he doesn't, but they say to him, you know, dad, would you read us a verse from, from the Bible? And they don't, I think it's pretty clear at this point, they're not believers. One of them is definitely not a believer. We know that for sure based on something he said earlier in the movie. They're not even believers. It's not because they want to be comforted by the word of God in that moment.

1:39:45They want to be comforted by their father. They want to be comforted by the ritual of their dad getting the book out and reading to them. That's what's important to them in that moment. And it's an offering to him, right it's a peace offering to him that's it you're right right so you're right the ritual matters to them even more maybe to the parents right in that in that instance especially at the end of the film but to go to your point too about singing right so then you think about not only the consistency of ritual and routine but then how important how striking in this film are then the discrepancies or the deviations from it yes the moment when there should be singing and there isn't.

1:40:27When Anharad gets married. Yes. When Anharad gets married and she walks out of the church and nobody is singing. And the father has to say to Di Bondo and all the men standing outside who would normally be rejoicing and all be in unison singing, greeting them as they come out of the church, he has to say to him something like, what, you can't greet my daughter with a song? My daughter's wedding doesn't deserve a song? Is there to be no singing for my daughter's wedding, Daibondo?

1:41:19It's very somber. And it is, right? And it isn't explicitly stated, but I think it's pretty clear that a couple things. One, I think they have a general idea that Anharad, based on her demeanor and her overall appearance, this isn't a marriage of love. This doesn't seem like Yvor and Bronwyn's wedding. This doesn't seem like a marriage where they are actually in love with each other, even though Yvor seems like a bit of a, you know. I don't know. Maybe not the most exciting man. They are in love with each other. We should say just for plot, for those who haven't seen it, she's marrying the coal miners owner, the coal mine, the coal mine owner's son.

1:42:02So basically up in class, up in class. So that's the thing. Part of it is, I think they have picked up on the fact that even on horrid's not happy, but beyond that, and more significantly that she's marrying up in class, that there is a distrust, right? and a mistrust generally around the land, the coal mine's owner, and then appropriately his son as well. And so they're not singing. So when there are deviations from the ritual, that also has a power. But Ford's camera, he captures that. The screenplay captures that, makes note of that. We then as viewers are drawn to that. And it, again, has a real power.

1:42:43And I don't want to keep, I don't want to keep, this is the last time I'll do it. I don't want to keep killing Wuthering Heights, but which movie felt to me more appropriate as a Valentine's Day watch? I have to be honest. I know that there's romance in Wuthering Heights that is obviously the romance is more requited than it is here. But Josh, I'm just telling you point blank. I am not exaggerating when I say that I think there's more romantic tension and more heat in any one of Maureen O 'Hara's stolen glances at Walter Pidgeon, the reverend in town, than there is between Margot Robbie and Jacob Velordi at any point in Wuthering Heights.

1:43:23The hot reverend. He is. They're yearning for each other, Josh. It is so chaste and so sexy. And part of it is, again, how how the camera works, too, when when they get really close to each other and then how the camera backs away and sometimes and shows us how it gives, you know, sort of a room for them to be near each other and maybe even shows a little bit of reverence for them in that in that moment. It's probably so sexy though, because it's so chaste. Like, I don't think there's ever really a doubt with these characters that discretion and duty will rule the day. Sure. And that just made me want them to be together even more.

1:44:07Honestly, parts of them looking at each other, that took my breath away. Yeah. O 'Hara and Pidgin are so good in this. And it's the in the mood for love principle, right? It is. It's the reticence, which we didn't get into this in Wuthering Heights. And honestly, it's hard to really compare these two films. It is. But the whole Catherine Heathcliff get it on montage, which is entirely imposed on, doesn't happen in the book, let's just say. But even independent of that is yes, not a lot of heat. But here, I agree with you, partly in the performance, partly in the filmmaking. In terms of Enhard and O 'Hara's character and that scene you were talking about where they're not singing or they're reluctantly singing after her wedding, we've been talking a lot about thematic and resonance in this movie.

1:45:03but in terms of the visuals, the sequence, the shot I think of is when she's walking out of the church with her new husband that she and everyone else in the village disapproves of. And her wedding veil is literally trying to escape. Like the, the, the wind it's this long veil is like pulling it off her head. And it's the way I read it is like, if you're not going to get out of this marriage, I am. And just that visual touch. I mean, this movie is gorgeous. We have to say, and I was trying to figure out, I wish I had found, I ran out of time to do more research. How did Ford get these shots of, as you said, topographically, we know where everything is, but we even have a sense beyond it of the hills beyond this village.

1:46:00And I did find that this came from an article on the TCM website by Frank Miller that basically there was a plot near Malibu that they turned into many acres into this Welsh mining village. Okay. So it's all in California. They chose to shut in black and white because if they'd done color, it would not have matched the lushness of the greenery of whales. What I couldn't find is I don't think there are matte paintings involved for those backdrops. Um, but I couldn't find how they got in this location, that depth of what is beyond this village. It doesn't have the, the claustrophobia and the quaintness.

1:46:46Maybe this is why it resonates universally is because this is a film that it takes a place entirely except for maybe the scenes where young Hugh goes off to school to another town, otherwise entirely in this village. But we do still have a sense of the wider world beyond, um, and maybe how it's, how they're, they're contained within it, you know, and, and just pictorially, I, I don't know how they managed to do that, but it's, it's just a gorgeous picture. No, it is. And there are so many moments that we could just say, let's look at this and try to decipher or diagram exactly how they did it.

1:47:29Maybe the shot, Josh, that I remember most, though, that I want to go back and really break down. How about the church sequence with the deacons when they cast out the woman who's gotten pregnant and had a baby out of wedlock? The way Ford shoots that scene, when that woman gets called up, he's using a little bit of a high angle. And so the diagonal provides this steepness and severity to it. And you're already in church. And then there's shadows and the way everyone in church is facing her. And she already seems so small then. The perspective, right? There's like a focal length and the perspective of her having to walk towards the deacons.

1:48:21The use of shadows there, everything. It's harrowing. It's harrowing. And it's just a shot. I don't think the camera moves, but it's just all in the framing and the lighting. And there's so many moments like that. And, you know, Greg Tolan, everybody thinks of Tolan and Citizen Kane and rightfully so. But just like with Kane, there are a bunch of ceiling shots in this movie, too. kind of famously with Cain, but it's here constantly. The Morgan house, right? Like emphasizing the structure, emphasizing the foundation of it all, like the authenticity of it all, that this isn't a set, that this shouldn't feel like a set, that this should feel like this real place existing in this real place.

1:49:02And it's convincing. However they did it, it's convincing. Yeah. And that church sequence with the woman who is shamed, there's also an incredible insert close-up of one of the deacon's fingers actively pointing. And I don't know if we get hardly any close-ups or insert shots in this movie. It's mostly, as I said, communal group shots or even more expansive of the scenery. So that jumps out at you. And that whole sequence too, I think this movie is probably regarded as maybe pious in some sense, but it's actually pretty sophisticated in its treatment of religious life. It's exposing it as incredibly hypocritical in that sequence.

1:49:52And at the same time, it has room for it to be foundational in positive ways for some of the characters. So I mean, how about, where else are you going to get a theological debate about unions? We have like the, the, I think it's another deacon who says unions are the work of the devil. And then you have pigeons pastor basically blessing their union, but saying, you know, it's not whether or not unions are right. It's how do you conduct your union? Are you, that's right. Are you going to do it justly? Are you still looking out for your fellow man and those in need? Exactly. And then, oh my gosh, in terms of imagery, I don't want to spoil this because there may be people who hopefully are listening to this and encouraged to check how green was my valley out.

1:50:41But two sequences, let's say, where the elevator going down to the mines rises up to the ground level. And in both cases, we're awaiting, we're worrying about someone who's been injured or possibly killed. And in both of those instances are evocations of the Pieta image, Mary holding Jesus' body. and even though it's used twice, I feel like it's not overdone because it's so beautifully composed and in each instance, I think as well, composed in a way that is specific to the characters who are in the composition. So again, I'm treading around spoilers, but the way characters are positioned matters because of who the character is and their relationships to each other.

1:51:35Those are just, just beautifully, beautiful visual, but also thematically evocative moments in the movie. Yeah. Those are the kind of choices you see throughout the entire film. They, they all matter. This is why this movie is still significant and still absolutely worth seeing. And we've talked about a few of the performances. I don't know that I have qualms with anybody's performance here. I certainly think that Pigeon's very good and Maureen O 'Hara is kind of a revelation. And I love watching the Morgan patriarch and matriarch here, you know, played by Donald Crisp. And I want to make sure Ocera Allgood is Beth Morgan.

1:52:14So good together. They are so good together, right? Again, there's a comfort that immediately makes you believe them as the head of this family, right? They've been together for decades. A hundred years. They've been together since the beginning of time, Josh, since Adam and Eve, they've been together. And that said, it was one of those cases where I'm looking at the young Hugh Morgan here and I'm going, man, this kid looks so familiar. You know, I know this face. Of course I know this face, but I don't know how I know him. And so at one point I had to get my phone out. It was bugging me too much.

1:52:52And I Google the cast. And of course it's Roddy McDowell. And you watch his performances, Hugh Morgan. And I only know Roddy McDowell from a few performances, a few of his famous performances here and there. I don't really have an opinion of him as an actor. You watch him here as Hugh Morgan and you go, oh, okay, I get it. Like, I understand why he was a child star who became an actor, right? Sure. He became a major player for I don't know what period of time, but you understand it. You see the talent in his performance. He's very good. He has to carry a lot. because this character is, this goes back to what I was saying about it being nostalgic, but not naive, is in this face that we see a lot of, because he's watching the adults, and he's watching the change, and in voiceover commenting on it, but not all that much.

1:53:45But this movie is also about growing up and into an awareness of the brokenness of the world. And you see that awareness dawn on Roddy McDowell's face as these scenes continue. So yeah, I agree with you. All the performances are strong and would definitely include his. Great start to our Pantheon project, How Green Was My Valley, available VOD on most platforms. In two weeks, we'll get to Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon. That one is available on HBO Max, the Criterion channel, and a few free ad-supported streamers, also VOD. So you have lots of options If you have not seen that film Rashomon, and even if you have, you know, probably worth taking another look at.

1:54:31Maybe it's changed. Who knows? For more on the Pantheon, visit filmspotting.net slash Pantheon Josh. That is our show. If you would like to connect with us on social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxd, and YouTube. He's at filmspotting. I'm at all those places as well. You can find me at Larson on film. We are independently produced and listener supported. you can support the show by joining the film spotting family and you can do that at film spotting family.com listen early and ad free you'll also get a weekly newsletter monthly bonus episodes and access to the entire show archive for show t-shirts and other merch go to film spotting.net slash shop in the film spotting archive i don't i don't recommend i don't know why we're saying this because i don't recommend anybody anybody go back and listen to these but But we do have conversations, myself and film spotting producer, co-founder Sam Van Hulgren, talking about Stagecoach from John Ford, The Searchers, and my darling Clementine.

1:55:34They were all part of the very first film spotting marathon, Westerns, in 2005. A Western a week, Josh. Guess how many we watched? There were eight. Eight Westerns. Eight Westerns. Part of that marathon. All right. Yeah. And I think after that, maybe we started to realize eight was a little bit too ambitious. But I can say the marathons, the fact that we've now done 50 plus of these, we can attribute it back to really John Ford, not just Westerns, but John Ford in a lot of ways. Like the fact that we felt so ignorant about Ford as this master and had not seen. Actually, I had seen Stagecoach in school, but I hadn't seen The Searchers.

1:56:13I hadn't seen My Darling Clementine. And we had to fix that. In limited release, you can see Kokuho, Japan's second highest grossing film of 2025. It's a three-hour biopic about the master of the art of kabuki. Out wide, been a lot of Baz Luhrmann talk on this show. Epic. This is Elvis Presley in concert. Long lost, newly restored footage of Elvis in concert during his 70s Vegas residency, assembled by Luhrmann, presented in IMAX. Wow. You can also see, yeah, I know. I mean, I actually, I really do want to see it, but I don't know that I'm going to have an IMAX opportunity. Glenn Powell and Margaret Qualley are in How to Make a Killing.

1:56:52This is a remake of 1949's Alec Guinness starring Kind Hearts and Coronets. Now, I didn't know that, but I've seen that film. That was part of another film spotting marathon at one point. And it's pretty good and has me reconsidering my exposure to the trailer of How to Make a Killing. Right. Okay. I know. Interesting. Me too. The Andrew Kevin Walker scripted Psycho Killer is also out. Streaming VOD, you can see Morgan Neville's Paul McCartney Man on the Run. That's on Prime Video. And I would say if you have any interest in it at all, especially if you're a Beatles fan or Paul McCartney fan specifically, watch it because you can hear my interview with Morgan Neville about that film next week on the show.

1:57:32And we will also pay tribute to Catherine O 'Hara with our top five Catherine O 'Hara characters. Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe DeSoe and Sam Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at wbez.org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson. And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

1:58:07Thank you.