Ep 502: Managing $240M As A 3-Person Team Through A Structured Meeting Approach with Wendy Ciehanski

0:02Wendy Ciehanski: Welcome to the Financial Advisor Success Podcast, where you go behind the scenes with financial planner, speaker, and consultant Michael Kitsis to hear stories of how leading financial advisors navigated the inevitable challenges that arise on the path to success and get insight from leading industry consultants about how to break through to the next level in your advisory business. And now here's your host, Michael Kitsis. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to the 500-second episode of the Financial Advisor Success Podcast. My guest on today's podcast is Wendy Sahansky. Wendy is a senior wealth advisor within the RIA Composition Wealth, where her Columbus, Ohio-based practice oversees approximately $240 million in assets under management for 156 client households.

0:49What's unique about Wendy, though, is how she and her advisor partner, who is also her husband, have built their practice as part of a three-person team in part by using a structured meeting approach that they have implemented and iterated on for 20 years. In this episode, we talk in depth about how Wendy uses a review meeting agenda that features both the client's current focus, including life and family updates, portfolio performance, and potential changes affecting their plan, as well as a look to the future, including economic commentary and to-do items, how Wendy uses the backside of the agenda to record any changes to the client's goals, risk profile, asset allocation, or securities holdings resulting from the meeting, and how Wendy has found that the focus of her clients' review meetings has shifted over the years from portfolio performance to life events and their financial planning implications.

1:33We also talk about how Wendy sets client review meetings on a quarterly, semi-annual, or annual cadence based on the client's needs and preferences, and not necessarily the assets they bring to the table, how Wendy structures her week by holding meetings between Tuesday and Thursday, leaving room for meeting prep and review on Monday and Friday, and how Wendy and her husband leverage their client service associate to both ensure all post-meeting tasks are taken care of, including digitizing any manual notes, and by also building personal relationships with clients. And be certain to listen to the end where Wendy shares why she and her husband decided to pursue a merger with a larger firm rather than maintain their independent practice, the factors Wendy and her husband considered when narrowing down potential suitors, including the size of the firm, the resources that would be available to them, and the expectation that they would continue serving their current clients for the foreseeable future, and how the decision to merge has ultimately proved successful by giving Wendy more time to focus on doing what she does best in serving her clients.

2:28And so with that introduction, I hope you enjoy this episode of the Financial Advisor Success Podcast with Wendy Sahansky.

2:39Welcome, Wendy Sahansky, to the Financial Advisor Success Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to get to chat with you today and to dig into what it takes to make ongoing client review meetings just really good and really efficient. Because I find there's a lot of discussion these days about how do we better systematize and scale financial planning as firms grow. And most of that discussion usually focuses on improve the data gathering process, cut on how much time it takes to get into the planning software, make the plan building process more expedited, and just all the things we do in those two, three, four meetings that we typically have to onboard new clients.

3:25But the reality for most established firms is that while new clients require more work for existing clients, we have a lot more existing clients than new clients. Most of us add a half a dozen or a dozen new clients, but might have 50 or 100 or 150 we already serve. So the bulk of the meetings for the year are not part of the new meeting process. They're part of the existing client review meeting process. And there's very little discussion out there about how do you make like 200 plus client review meetings more efficient every year. And I know, Wendy, you have done a lot of work on this in your practice of how do we create more structure in the ongoing review meetings and agendas that we bring in to make sure we're focused on what we cover in each meeting.

4:06And so I'm excited to talk about what you have done to get more efficient in all of the ongoing meetings it takes to serve clients well and what you've learned in the, I'm assuming there's some ups and downs and bumps in the growth path along the way. Sure. The review process kind of is what we live our day-to-day lives on because it makes it consistent, a known entity for us. And it's a process that we've been doing 25 plus years. We did it early on and refined it along the way and has continued to be successful for us, not only for us, but for the clients, because our existing clients know the routine and the cadence and what to expect from us, you know, along the way for continued follow up and portfolio reviews.

5:04And it really all came around from the thought of service, fees, and performance. And out of those three things, service was the thing we could control. You know, fees can adjust, performance can adjust, but our service level and what we expected from a service level to our clients and what they expected from us. So that's kind of how our process evolved over time. But what we do on a quarterly, semi-annual, annual basis is we have meetings with our clients that get determined, one, on the client's needs and or wants of how often they want to talk to us or meet with us. some clients have more activity going on more things that need deep dives in so they fall under the quarterly semi-annual or annual we have a template and it's a one-page agenda the front is the agenda the back of the page is detail you know making notes about mortgages retirement kind of a note-taking space.

6:24And we prep that the last week of each quarter, and it generally takes us about 30 to 45 minutes to prep that. We then send out a blast email to all the clients at the end of the quarter, or the first or second day of the business day of that quarter. clients either call in to schedule or email to schedule their date to come in. And everybody, we have a thing in our practice that if the phone rings, somebody answers it. It's ideally not going to voicemail. So if we answer the call, everybody can schedule for everybody if needed. So that helps with the client. So we schedule, the clients call in, we get them schedule, we do most of the reviews, the first six weeks of the quarter.

7:18There's always, you know, some stragglers that we may have to track down and work between their travel schedule or something that might be going on. During the week, Monday, kind of Monday of the week is our review, weekend admin prepping for the meetings of the week, adjusting specifically on our review template for the meetings. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays are our client meetings. And Friday, we try to block off as a cleanup for the week and look forward to the next week. And then after the quarter, it's kind of a rinse and repeat. And we do that the next quarter. So I have lots of questions to get in further about some pieces of that.

8:07But just to take a moment, Wendy, can you give us some context on the firm overall as exists for you? So like clients aim, team size, revenue, like just so we have some context about how this comes together and like who's there to support you on this. Okay. From a team standpoint, we are a small, very efficient ensemble practice. There's three of us, myself, Chris, my partner, who is also my husband, and then Christina, our CSA. So it is just the three of us.

8:48The business kind of details, assets under management, about$240 million. We have 156 clients and 99 of those are multi-generational households, which is very interesting. And that's, I mean, that's kind of driven a lot of our go forward stuff with the practice of being multi-generational. And then from an annualizing revenue, we're about 1.5 now. Okay. Okay. Okay. So practice metrics sounds really healthy overall. I can sort of do math, 156 clients, 1.5 million of revenues. The average client can be about$10 ,000 of revenue. I know we just have some bigger and some smaller distributed around that.

9:42But that gives good context for the firm overall. And so are you and Chris both advisors? like you split serving this 156 client base? We both do act as the advisor. Okay. Are split with that. And one of the things we've had fun with over the years is with new clients, the client gets all of us at all times if needed, but one advisor is the lead person. And when we have the opportunity, we joke and let the client pick which advisor they want to be the lead. I think like neat for the client, maybe awkward for the client, sometimes awkward for you and Chris, and you're like, I thought I was going to get that one.

10:31Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, depending on the client and the situation, we do have a little bit of fun with that, but they know that they get both of us when and if needed. So can you walk through briefly though, like how do you actually present that choice to the client? Like, what do you say or explain to them as you're like setting up this choice for them? Sure. The typically when I knew if it is new client coming in and has been referred by an existing client. So if it's somebody that I'm working with, you know, the initial thought would be I would be the lead on that. However, as we learn more about the client and their needs and what needs to be accomplished, it may be that Chris is the better person being the CPA, the data person, the numbers person, not only in his mind and his knowledge, but how he presents information.

11:30You know, so we look at that again, me being a communication major, some people, you know, respond more to let me show you pictures and charts and graphs. So a lot of it then becomes just a personal communication style. In addition to, again, if the client needs CPA or some tax knowledge background, or it's insurance with annuities or something, if I'm focusing on annuities in 529s, but Chris is the lead on a client, but they have a need for that, I'll jump in for that piece. But when you give clients the choice, I mean, are you framing to them? Like, Chris is the numbers person, I'm the communication manager, choose your own event.

12:18Like, do you set up with them that way? Are you both in the meeting and you just each come with your respective styles and see what clients bond to? Like, how do you actually just put that forth for clients to make their decision? Over the years, we've had a little bit of both where we've met, you know, met with the prospect at the time and it was both of us and we kind of, and sometimes you can just get a sense of that. But if it's not, if I'm meeting with someone, we describe the team, we describe, you know, the areas of what people cover more or the details. For example, when it gets into tax stuff, I'm going to defer to Chris, but that might be, a hit or miss thing when the client needs tax information.

13:06So it makes more sense. But we will say, you get both of us, but if you don't want me to be the lead at any time, that's okay. Chris is here or Christina can jump in to help with that. So it is a little bit fluid And it just kind of seems to fall into place. And so from a, I guess, capacity end, are you at capacity? Is Chris at capacity? Are both of you there? Do you still feel like you've got space with 156 clients between the two of you? We do have space now. We did in 2020 shut the practice down in the sense of not taking on new clients. The pandemic had started. Our assistant was working remote at the time or started working remote.

14:09And we had shut it down in 2004. We had brought on, well, 2002, we ended up bringing a new CSA on board with us that freed up a lot of our time. And we were able to open the doors back up for referrals and new clients. in addition to the decision we made to merge with another company, took a lot of that admin off of our plate that allowed us to go back to working with clients, which is where we really provide value. So the new assistant came 2022. And then when did the new, like affiliating to a larger firm transition come? July, 2025. Okay, so that's more recent. Okay. So now this helps to understand team structure and environment overall.

15:10So now let me go back to how you described the ongoing meeting process. So I understand the weekly cadence, Monday review, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday meetings, Friday is like clean up and retrospective and get ready for next week. How many meetings do you typically take each day on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? How meeting warrior are you during the meeting activity? There are some days that it's a three or four meeting day. That gets a little bit heavy. It also depends if they're coming into the office, if we're doing a Zoom call, if it's a phone call. And it does change. Chris's client base has more quarterly meetings than I do.

16:03So he tends to have more and then we'll batch those up. And Christina's pretty good at spacing those out so that they're manageable and you're not having a day that you're just slammed. okay so she tries to be cognizant to not have a a six bagger one day and a two the next and correct roller coaster up and down but that's uh so like a three to four meeting day that's a that's a full day for you correct because we will christina will um schedule the meetings for two hours you know they may be shorter um so if you do that it's six hours with a couple breaks in between yeah and do you typically fill all two hours or you just like put two hour blocks because it takes you one and you need breathing room typically it's i mean just doing the two hour block.

17:06Usually they last a little bit less than that in time. And if it does last longer, a lot of it is just social catch up with the client. It's stories about the family and travel and things going on more so than diving into performance and numbers. So I was going to ask What do you cover over the span of two hours in a review meeting ongoing with clients? So on our, I'd come in and we have our one page agenda review sheet that again, we've been using for 20 plus years, kind of the same format, same style. And we kind of have it a left hand and a right hand of the agenda, and then a invisible line that goes through the middle.

18:00So it's like four quadrants in our mind. And we always start with life and family updates. dates, you know, wanting to know how the clients are, the children, grandkids, what have you. And then we always ask them what is on their list to cover that day.

18:20Wendy Ciehanski: What's, you know, top of mind for them. That way we don't forget. They know if there's anything that they wanted to make sure they covered with that. So go through, you know, if they're still working, you know, job again, And life, retirement, just the big picture. Then our next question typically being, what are our cash needs? What expenses are coming up? Okay. What do we need? Because typically those are the things that are on the client's mind first and foremost. Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, all the good stuff. But we found out the roof needs to be replaced. We need to do some cash in the next couple weeks here.

19:01Exactly. You know, and then we go down, we jump into asset allocation and performance. So we will give them the overview of that. We talk about potential changes to the portfolio, if we need to change allocation, if there's outside assets that we need to review to make sure things are balanced and still in line. So we will go over that. So that's kind of the left side of the agenda. The right side of the agenda are, we title it, Looking Forward and Next Steps. And that, for us, covers big picture things going on in the world, the political world, the economic world, tailwinds, what's going on with data, things that people might be hearing in the news and the media.

19:51You know, because I always say, I heard this. How does it affect us? So we'll have those big picture, you know, we talk about mortgage rates, inflation, those types of things. And then that's kind of that on the right side, the top quadrant. And then the bottom quadrant is our next steps and to do's. And what falls in that area is two things. One is kind of maintenance admin type items. You know, should we update power of attorneys? Are our beneficiaries still how we want them to be? Trusted contact information, if we needed any documents signed or updated, kind of falls into that. And then we typically have something that's an educational topic.

20:49And that may be, you know, they've made a change with tax code or a big one and one that's come up with us more is cybersecurity and fraud. You know, having a conversation about the client's passwords and where do you keep them and do you update them and things to look out for in that. We always ask them at the end, where are you traveling? What trips do you have come up? And that's kind of twofold is one we want to hear about the great experiences that they're going to have and things they're going to do. but in many cases it will take us right back to the top left of the agenda about cash needs because they go oh we forgot to tell you we're traveling and we need money for the down payment of this trip so it kind of goes full circle so it kind of starts with cash and ends with cash so just as you're talking about this i'm trying to to visualize is there a copy of this you'd be willing to share?

21:55Like, is there a template that we could share out for listeners if they want to like look and try to see literally what does this look like? Absolutely. Oh, awesome. I thank you. So, so for folks who are listening, this is episode 502. So if you go to kitsis.com slash 502 and scroll down to the show notes section, we'll have a link out to the, the, the review template there. If you want to just take a look and follow along or, or scroll back, audio back a couple minutes and walk next to you as well. So, so Wendy, you said there's a prep process for this at the beginning of the, of the quarter before you queue them up.

22:43So I guess I'm trying to visualize is the review is this review template like specific to the clients? Like each client has a version where you're highlighting all the things you're talking about for them? Or is this like a firm level? We set what it's going to be for the quarter, and then we're going to do that agenda with each client. No, there is a little bit of personalization that goes on. We create the template. I commented that usually the template we can do in 30 to 45 minutes. One of the things that seems to take us the longest is we always put, you know, in the top left corner, you know, for example, second quarter, third quarter review, 2026, and underneath we put a quote.

23:29And the quote that we pick is very random. It's subjective. It's not focused on any things. Maybe sometimes it's focused around baseball, if it's the World Series or something, you know, might be, which we spend time doing it quarterly to try to find the right quote that we think clients don't even ask us about it but we have done it and kept it on there for years they're just they're maybe taking the witty quote for granted but they're still going to grumble if it's gone right so we create the template we have you know the main talking points and then we will go in and personalize it you know like on monday for when we're creating the reports for the review if it's mine, I'm putting, you know, or do we need to talk about, if I know something went on with their work, do we need to be talking about their 401k or an IRA rollover or something that I may need to, that I may know is a task we need to do.

24:29On the other side, Christina will look to say, we need beneficiary updates or I need this document signed so she'll add things that she's looking for might need from the client at that time so they all do get touched personally before the review but the bones of it is kind of standard I guess I just want to make sure to understand when you talk about like it's it's 30 minutes to prep the template is that like for each client. So like you've got 30 minutes of eight different meetings, four hours worth of template prep for this week, and then you go through next week? No, the 30 to 45 minutes is at the beginning of the quarter, creating the template, the base template for the quarter.

25:21Okay. Because that covers things like what economic things are we talking about right now? Like let's talk about gas prices and mortgage rates because that's the thing. Hey, we need no mass allocation performance and we're going to have to talk about this investment that's up a lot and they're all going to want to buy more and we're going to have to explain why we're not buying more and diversification and all that good stuff. So it's templating at that level. Correct. But you do it each quarter. So you have a common set of conversations that get repeated through the quarter as each client goes through the meeting cycle because you made a standard template for it.

26:04Correct. That's part of the repeatability of the meeting, like the systematizing of the meeting. Correct. And one of the other things when we're personalizing that agenda for that client, there might be something that was on the agenda. the quarterly agenda that we made as the template. And it may not pertain to like my clients specifically at that meeting, but I may choose to leave it on so they visually see it. But I may say this is not applicable to us right now, but it puts it in their head. You know, if we're talking about donor advised fund, I might leave that on the agenda. You know, they may not have it.

26:50They may have said no about her or that's something I'll think about down the road. And we put it on just to keep it in the forefront or in their mind. And so at the beginning of the quarter, you set the quarterly template for the firm. Then I guess on Mondays, you and or Christina are doing your client-specific adjustments. oh we know they went to africa we should put the update on the africa trip thing on the list oh we know that they need to uh get their estate documents done we'll keep that in the to-dos like that that kind of personalization is that a monday activity yes okay or a weekend activity such as life for chris and i for chris and i so then as you go through these cycles do you send all is this a like a review agenda you send to the client in advance and they like give their their feedback or other input or they just come in and you start with what's on your list and and let them express it at the beginning of the meeting once they're there so that is a good question because there's one thing that we have found And I will circle back with that.

28:08If the client is coming into the office, we prep the agenda. You know, there are other reports that we utilize during the review and they see the agenda while they sit down in front of us. If we're doing a phone call or a Zoom call, we will forward the review packet to them. Ideally, it gets to them the day before. Some clients want it the day before and have requested it. Others are like, just send it and I'll pull it up as we're going to jump on the phone, which would be the same as if they were in the office and it was just being set in front of them. What is interesting, kind of circling back to how the appointments get scheduled, we have considered and possibly will go to kind of like a calendly type scenario for setting client meetings.

29:03But one of the things we have found when the clients call in or email, they tend to give information about something that's on their mind or they want to make sure they talk about ahead of time. And it gives us an opportunity to learn a little bit more. And they do that more often than not. And we find that very helpful. Where if we're going to a Calendly scenario, we might not get that information up front. I feel like it's a lot of these technology elements are creating interesting divides in the industry between what's nice to automate because it takes time and what's an expression of good service or relationship building or like I'm not trying to save time on this part.

29:57Like I want to interact with the client and deepen the relationship. And it comes up in scheduling, comes up in meeting cadence. I find for some now it's cropping up in education, even communication with clients. Like now that AI can write more newsletters for us, should we send our clients more newsletters Or do they actually appreciate more when we send them one-off emails that's actually from us? Like all those dimensions, I feel like there's just an industry, collective industry debate forming of what's the line between efficiency and we're efficiencing away the actual trust relationship part that we wanted in the first place.

30:40So you found it still feels like, dare I say, good old fashioned client scheduling calls and emails still gives you relationship interactions and touch points that make it make it feel worthwhile to keep doing it that way. Absolutely. That being said, we know that, as I commented earlier about having, you know, different generations and our younger clients, that's not going to be the same probably going forward. And or they don't, their appreciation for that may be different and they may appreciate it, but say, hey, I don't want that or need it. It's just easier if I can go and, you know, click and do this, you know, the middle of the night or what have you.

31:28So we are aware of that and try to, and that was kind of a big reason and behind the thought process of doing a merger of how do we grow that out so that we can service all the clients, one, while we're here still on this planet. And when Chris and I aren't on the planet, how are the younger ones served? And so we have a little bit of control and direction of how that took place. So I want to come back to the merger decision in a few minutes, but I'm still curious for, I guess, the other half of this one-page template, as it were, which is the back. You said there's a backside of it where you capture notes and other items.

32:16So can you talk a little bit more about what's on the backside of the quarterly review template? Yes, the backside is, again, kind of our note hub. And we have that broken down to goals, which would include retirement, college, house or home, asset purchases, charity, estate. We have a risk profile line. Is their risk profile changed? Know KYC, know your client information, asset allocation, and then changes for buying, selling, or holding specific investments or attachment that would relate to any of the individual investment changes. You kind of mentioned old school. One might think this is old school, and it probably is.

33:14We have done some experimentation with Fathom and the recording of meetings that could help capture and completely make this part of our documentation easier and more efficient. um like i said we have used fathom not sure that that is where we will be staying in that space or maybe going to jump that's kind of up in the air in motion at this point um the other thing is we scan this into a client file so the agenda is always stored and scanned we even had conversation of can a scanning app or something pull that information out and if it needs to get loaded into Salesforce, you know, from again, technology, or I should preface, technology is not my forte.

34:14It all sounds good, but that would be really neat if you could scan it and it pulls it and then dumps it into Salesforce notes and things like that. And maybe there is that platform out there and somebody will tell me something I'm not aware of at this point. So it sounds like the essence of what you're capturing here is the stuff that you tend to really want to document either because there's literally an action, like a trade, or there's something we really want to document for compliance purposes, right? Like change in risk profile, change in other KYC info. Like am I visualizing that well? Like it's not necessarily the, this is our note taking sheet for like broad financial planning conversations.

35:01This is the like, we want to commemorate really specific things that create action or need compliance documentation. Correct. Okay. Correct. I and and so what happens with this sheet at the end of the meeting is like you you go through a day of meetings and then you drop two to four of these on Christina's desk at the end of the day and and to like process through these yes so we'll go through after so I do this with the client meeting, I walk away and I have my to-dos that I know I need to take care of. I process those. I will verbally, and this might not be right after the meeting, it'd be at the end of the day or possibly the next morning with Christina to let her know the immediate to-dos if she has any.

35:56And either immediate or putting them on the calendar or the task list for a week out or a month out if things came out. And then ultimately these get scanned and put into a client file so that we have the document and then try to get rid of paper going forward. So it's all scanned in the computer. What I find fascinating about this, you noted earlier some of the technology dynamics and I'm sure there are some very techie advisors listening. They're like, You could have this note taker with this AI thing do this thing and plug it into Salesforce because the technologists do cool technology things.

36:38And you're a three-person team doing$1.5 million of revenue, which I find striking. That is an incredibly high level of revenue productivity for a three-person team. That for all the discussions of there are things that we do in our firms that are a little manual, gee, I wish there was better technology for this. I'm like, yes, and you're scheduling meetings with phone calls and emails, not Calendly. you're taking the notes directly you're prepping the agendas one client at the time and sending out packets and you're driving 1.5 million of revenue with the three-person team like this is this is working quite well by any actual reckoning of business math like just this this math's incredibly well it's a just it it's a striking gap to me that i i know i find there are there There are things that sometimes we complain about in the advisor world because we just really don't like them, right?

37:50Some of us just don't like doing the notes thing. And any notes is really kind of grating on us. And I wish technology would just magically make it disappear. But there's a difference between the things that really aggravate me in my day and I wish technology would make go away. And the things that would actually materially change our productivity. because what strikes me about all this, like you're doing this and it's 1.5 million of revenue. And you said like, you still feel like you and Chris have capacity. You're not drowning and capped out here. Like you've got room and growth. Well, and now, like I said, with the merger, we're not doing compliance.

38:31We're not doing the billing. We're not, you know, because back in, you know, 2022 and kind of that down period, we realized we were spending, you know, half of our time on administrative type things. And we're like this, you know, we like the clients. That's what we're good at. That's where we add value. So we recognize some of that. But, and again, not being technology focused and speaking for me personally, the learning those new tools and making sure that they work correctly and accurately i maybe can be more efficient just doing what i'm doing so so how is this changed and iterated for you because you said you've been doing some version of these quarterly review templates for 20 plus years so So I'm curious, what did it look like 20 years ago?

39:31How has it changed? I got to imagine there are things you tried and went well and stuck, and there are things you tried and did not go well. And you're like, well, we're going to take that back off after all that didn't work out. So how has it evolved? What got added and subtracted over the years? I don't know if it's as much added and or subtracted. I think it was the flow of which it went. And I think for me early on, the thought was all clients want to know about is performance and investments. And that's what they're coming, you know, that that's what they want to do or talk about and what they want to know.

40:13And while that is important for their goals and objectives, the actual investments are kind of the byproduct. That's how we get to do all these other things. So leading more with life and what's going on has been much more impactful, I know, for us and I think for the clients because now over the years, they've become family and friends. And of course, what changes is what's going on in the outside world changes all the time. So I'm going to infer then the early versions of the meeting template just literally had like your performance review, here's our investment outlook, and that the life family updates and such got added then because you said you wanted to put more emphasis on those in the meetings.

41:11Right. I think the order of it and in writing, it may have been the agenda was all the data information, but it didn't list current focus. And that first line says life and family update. Now they visually see that and that's important. And that's the first thing that's on the list. Okay. And do you find, I guess, did you find over the years, did conversations change with clients? Like how did that show up as you started changing what's literally on the first? A lot of it, I would say, because the clients are long term, so that relationship just built over time. So maybe it became more expected, you know, for existing clients, for new clients that come on board.

42:05You know, they see that right away. And right away, I think it shows and establishes we need to know that part of what is going on in their world to be able to implement, you know, the investments, the allocation, what needs to be done, you know, documents. Do we need to be talking about donor advised funds, insurance, estate planning? Because what's going on in their life is driving everything where we can add value and help them. And then how do you set the meeting cadence? Because it sounds like you've got, I think you said, there are clients who are quarterly, there are clients who are semi-annual, there are clients who are annual.

42:53And it sounds like that's not just a function of large portfolios with our A clients and get quarterly and smaller portfolios or C clients and get annually. It sounds like there's other factors. So how do you actually set meeting, Kate? um we do a little bit of our own analysis and what we have going on what the work we need to do with the portfolio so if it's a new a new client coming on board obviously there's more work up front if things need to be re-established things need to be moved around from different accounts or different investments there's more activity and more meetings and or conversation up front.

43:38And then we settle in. And that settle in is kind of a joint discussion. It's, we think, you know, we can accomplish and, you know, do this quarterly or semi-annually. But we also say to the client, you know, how much do you want to talk to us? How much do you want to be spending time on this? And like you said, it's not necessarily an asset thing because we have some that there's assets and they're like, really only want to talk to you once a year, you know? Yeah. And even, even then maybe I don't, you know, and we're like, no, mandatory once a year, we have to touch base, but, and, and clients have moved from quarterly to semi-annually or maybe back.

44:25So they can move from that cadence if they have a desire to, or we feel there is a need to, I would say more so it has gone from quarterly to semi-annual, you know, that it's gone downstream. Either they've retired and they're like, you know what, I don't want to look at this stuff as often anymore, you know, or I can go online now and look at it and I understand what I'm looking at, you know, when I log into the portal. If I have questions in between, I'll call you. So it's not a hard set, steadfast of your asset level puts you in this review calendar. So then do you have any adjustments for pricing to reflect this?

45:20I could have a quote-unquote big client that wants to meet only once a year and a smaller client that wants to meet four times a year. Do you try to make adjustments for that or do you just assume this is going to average out over the practice? We at this point have assumed it will average out over the practice. So typically we do fees, our assets under management. We do, or have done some hourly type fees and a few annual kind of retainer type thing. But for the most part, we're assets under management. And know that, you know, sometimes, you know, we're paid just the right amount. Sometimes we're overpaid and sometimes we're really underpaid, but it all works out, you know, timing wise, you know, if there's something going on in the client's life and we're doing, there's a lot of activity, but then it slows down, you know, so there's instances or situations come up, you know, where we are working more and spending more time and that's okay, but we're not adjusting the fees for that.

46:30And what is the baseline fee? What does your fee schedule look like on an AUM world? Just about 1%. Okay. Okay. And tears down as they get bigger kind of thing. And do you have minimums for the firm? We do not. While our documentation says Yes, we might when you look, but our thought is if we can add value, if we meet somebody and their asset level is lower, we will tell them that we might not be the right place for them based on the fees that we're charging. and if we're not adding significant value to that. But if it's, you know, someone that is ramping up and they know they want to do these things and they're really looking for help, you know, we will work with that again if we're adding value to them.

47:33Otherwise it's, you know, this might be a better scenario for you and you come back to us when we're here when it makes sense for our fees. So now talk us through this whole change you went through a year ago with a merger, because it sounds like that was a fairly material turning point for the business. So if you can, I would say, paint the picture for us of what the business looked like, I guess, the months or a year before you did this change. So we understand what was going on as you went and explored merger opportunities, and then kind of talk about what happen from there. Like I had mentioned earlier, you know, 2020, things kind of shut down.

48:24Chris and I were working here in the office. We weren't taking new clients at the time, spending time on admin and all. We're like, okay, how is this all going to shake out? And, you know, I think for most people, that period of time, people became very reflective and what are we going to do going forward. In 2004, so in 2022, we brought Christina on. 2024, we opened back up and said, you know, new clients can come on board because we felt that we were back with her help and expertise to add that back into the fold. So you went almost four years from 2020 to 2024, where you basically said, we just can't take more clients right now?

49:17Mm-hmm. Yes. What was client count at? I mean, like roughly, were you similar now? It just felt more drowning? Or were you capped out even lower than where you are now? No, it was lower than we are now, maybe about 125, 130 households. And I think in that too, it was, I had come in 2020, our assistant at the time was working remote, and then she ended up leaving. and we went, Chris and I went a full year without an assistant. Okay. So that, that was a good part of, okay, we, we capacity of, of onboarding new people, you know, just, it became a lot. So we were like, okay, let's, you know, focus on what we're doing now.

50:21Let's start thinking about what life is going to look like going forward, not just for us, but mainly for our clients. What's all evolving. What do we need to do? So fast forward 2022, we bring Christina on board, got things, you know, back organized. She righted us. She has several years in the industry. We had known her from prior days initially at Merrill Lynch. So she was a tremendous asset to the team and kind of opened us back up, so to speak. Summer of 2024, Chris and I said, we need to figure out what we're going to do with this business going forward. What does it need to look like? What do we need to add?

51:09And our two options were, I should say three options. Do we just keep doing what we're doing and eventually retire, turn the lights off and close the doors and find new homes for our clients. So three options, that was one. The other was grow the practice or build the practice out ourselves or merge and look for, you know, something that fit all or most of the requirements that we wanted for our clients. And it turned out looking for a partner and someone to merge with was made the most sense for us. So what, what drew you away from the other, the other paths, the keep what you're doing now that it's working with Christine or, or grow the practice yourselves?

52:03The mainly from, mainly it was the clients because the clients' needs were expanding. You know, the clients who had been with us many years, and now if we had multi-generations and the younger clients, what they needed, for example, technology type things, you know, what were we going to implement with that? Our older clients, you know, are now, you know, potentially going to need more bill pay services, accounting help, you know, so maybe if we had accounting in-house, you know, they may need more help with technology, you know, and fraud and estate planning and financial planning. So to build that out, you know, for us to find all those experts, not that they aren't out there, but the time to do that and to set it up.

53:02And that was really like starting a business all over again, going from three people to add all those entities that we thought really would be helpful and beneficial for the clients and for the business going forward. So that took us to looking for a partner and doing a merge. So fall of 2024, we went to Future Proof out in California. We're like, this is the upcoming, you know, everybody new and exciting is going to be there. Yeah, this is where the people are now. They kind of made their like the place to see and be seen phenomenon. Okay. Exactly. I'm coming from, you know, the world of where we're like, no meeting has ever taken place outside before or conference.

53:52That was, you know, it was very good. It was a good experience. And so we kicked off, you know, the interviewing and the process. We kind of did it in a dual format. We had our firms that we sought out and looked at or, you know, researched. And then we went back to Mindy and Lewis Diamond to help us out and worked with Lewis and kind of put two, you know, two lists together and ruled firms out that weren't a fit. Either we didn't fit them or they didn't fit us. And they were really helpful in that. But Mindy went back. Mindy got me over the hump when we left Merrill and started our own business.

54:44Okay. You know, so that was kind of a full circle moment. And going back to her and saying, hey, you helped us do this, you know, with our business 13 years ago. And now we want to do this with our business. And like that, we went from working with Mindy to working with Louis. So things evolve and change. And so that took place the end of 2024. And we finalized, we got it down to four firms, narrowed it down to two. And July 1st of 2025, we merged with Composition Wealth. So talk to us more about, because what I think of is the search and the filtering process, right there's there's so many firms out there that want to do mergers and acquisitions i mean a lot of us just get like inbound phone calls i don't know if you were already fielding the the inbound phone calls and outreach before you you'd even started so um so just how do you filter through that i mean like how did you figure out what's going to be a fit or not How did you make your own list of what criteria matter to you and what doesn't?

56:07Sure. When we were looking at that, and Chris did a lot of or most of the filtering, but what was important to us was the size of the firm. And we did look at large to small and what that felt like and how they function. So we didn't rule anybody out necessarily. We said, okay, let's look at the large firms. Let's pick two or three from there, the medium and the small, to try to get a feel of what those different sizes meant and things that could be brought to the table. And how did they feel to you? How did you distinguish large versus medium versus small? Assets, number of employees or people and number of advisors in the employment.

57:00The other thing was geographical location, which turned out to not be as big of an issue as we initially thought with technology and how people work and people working remote, which again was pretty new to us. because obviously composition is located out on the West Coast and we're sitting in Columbus, Ohio. So that ultimately was not a deterring factor. So you had expected you would need someone that had an Ohio or outright Columbus presence and the conclusion was technology and remote is fine enough to make this work with a larger firm. Correct. Okay. I would say sitting here today, though it's being ironed out the three-hour time difference, there have been a little glitches with that where we're like, oh, this isn't happening because of our time difference.

58:00But it's just adjustment of schedule and how we work and getting on a routine with our backups and Christina's backup. So nothing that can't be worked out. Okay. So what else were feelings, differences you got between large, medium, small? One of the other criterias that we looked at was women in leading roles with the firms and or advisory, advisor roles was important. And if not that, how did the leadership perceive females in the industry? And that just might be a sense of mine though. Chris is, you know, very engaged in that. And there's things that he will notice more than I notice when it comes to male, female, or was that paid attention to, or is that important to them?

59:06Because it's very important to us as a firm. So we looked at that. The other thing with the firms, were they in a mode of just trying to acquire and gather assets to be bigger in that sense? Or were they looking to be very mindful in acquisitions and mergers because it was a right fit and the focus to the client was the same, which is ultimately where we were. I mean, we needed someone who or a firm that embraced what we did with our clients because we had been successful for so many years and we didn't want to shake that up. And the client, you know, always needed to come first and didn't always feel that way.

59:55when doing that due diligence. So some of it, yes, number wise, and some of it is just a good feeling, gut feeling about it. My other thing, and this was more probably me than Chris. One of my thoughts is we left the big world, you know, broker dealer, wire house, and the way things are going one of my fears and it was a question i asked everybody we met or talked with was do you foresee that all of this consolidation that there's going to be you know four to six large rias that run the space and other than one the answer was like absolutely not that's not going to happen and one said i'm assuming the one that said yes is because they intend to be one of those 46 no actually the one that said yes said it to me and said wendy the reality of it is yes that could happen just that doesn't make it a bad thing to me it was a bad thing and it's it's still kind of a bad thing not that it can't as long as the client you know, under the RIA space, as long as the client is the number one focus versus proprietary, you know, kind of where you left some of the, our past world.

1:01:24But one did say, yeah, that, you know, that's a possibility that could happen. And while I didn't like that answer, I was like, oh, actually somebody kind of said the reality of it. Yes, it could. So geography was a driver for you, but turned out not to be an issue. Women in the firm or the firm's support of women was a criteria for you. And it sounds like their purpose and vision, some version like, are they building something in particular or are they just getting bigger for the sake of, was a driver for you? Correct. Any other big factors that were driving this or is that really the main core?

1:02:11I think that's the core. The other piece of that probably falls into that is the firms, the behind the scenes. You have the advisors and you do what you do, but the people who are implementing things. So, you know, data, the people working with Black Diamond, you know, operational, there are tremendous young, not young, younger than us, knowledgeable minds out there. And that was great to see that. And we knew we needed that. You know, so when we had the ability or to talking to the people who was going to help, for example, with the transition and getting data and transferring data, the people are so smart and knowledgeable.

1:03:12And that was really fun to see and work with and know that, you know, going forward, things change and also would be with the advisors too. So that next generation for us was very fun to see and still is as we're working with people. So I'm sort of curious to see why merger versus the various like corporate REA platform folks where you can affiliate and they do stuff for you, but you're not necessarily merging with them. You're not necessarily like transitioning equity and ownership and such. uh i guess i'm curious i mean was that a weighing factor for you or those alternatives was there a reason why you wanted the merger version and and not one of those other affiliate style platforms uh i we wanted ownership we still wanted to be part of a team just okay just bigger we wanted more teammates all working towards the same purpose.

1:04:27So I think that was, you know, more so in, again, giving us the resources of all the other entities for our clients as far as their needs, but also having younger advisors that were part of the team or that we could work with. If I I now bring on a new client and they're younger. You know, maybe we partner with a younger advisor within composition, you know, to help that. And I know that advisor. It's, you know, it just created for us maybe more of a comfort level. Okay. Because I guess how would you frame the, like the goal that you were trying to achieve in this? Because for some, it's exit, it's liquidity, it's cash out, chips off the table.

1:05:22It sounds like that was not necessarily the driver that started this for you. Correct. It was not, we're going to do this merge and we have a two or three year lifespan and we're gone and done. Our goal was you accept us and we're here working. And now we have newfound excitement and time and capacity and joy with what we're doing because we're not doing all that back office stuff. So it really came down to that. So what were the big things and you wanted to offload from that end? I mean, you mentioned earlier, it's like compliance was a part, picking tech was a part. Billing. Okay. You know, so those were the, I mean, those were the big things and they are big things.

1:06:22Compliance, tech selection and billing. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so as you went through this list and windowed down, I think you said you finalized to four, then you narrowed from there to two. so when when you get to the point where i'm going to assume like all your finalists were you know bigger for the right reasons had good depth had some capabilities had geographic support were supportive of women what what actually started to winnow down the final final four final two like what what became important at that point to to get to a final choice the we had said when we moved from Meryl to do our own business the the move we made the choices we made tended to be more of a move for me for Wendy as far as my comfort level because I was more leery of leaving and going out on our own than Chris was.

1:07:36Chris was like, let's do this. We should have done this, you know, back in 2008 when the financial crisis hit. And we didn't move until 2013. Were you both at Merrill at the time? Yes. Okay. Okay. And so we made that move to create our own firm. And like I said, a lot of the decisions were driven by my comfort level. This time when we made a change with our business, it was Chris's comfort level because Chris will work as long as he's capable, mentally capable to still do his job. He very much likes what he does. It's driven by the work. And he's like, I'm not going anywhere. I love this. So one of the things with our merge was you're getting us and we don't have an expiration date at this point.

1:08:30We still want to work. We want to contribute. You know, we're interested in growing and evolving. We're not done yet. And that was a factor because some firms like what wanted you to have an expiration date, Like wanted you to be more limited in time and move on? Yes. Okay. Because they're doing their own retire advisors, bring young folks in thing. Okay. Or that's what it felt like. Okay. Okay. So how supportive were they for you to actually hang around for years or decades to come? Their supportiveness of that was a factor for you in the end? Yes. And so as you ultimately approached to doing this deal, I mean, ultimately, did you just trade your stock for their stock?

1:09:24It's like a roll-in. Did you take the proverbial some chips off the table with some dollars in cash or was the whole focus where we can roll all of our equity and we just want to be part of a bigger platform? It was a combination. Okay. So what drove the decision or the balance? The, we wanted equity and to be part of something that we thought could grow and be more encompassing. That was important to us. We have stake in the game. We're not just say, hey, cash out and be done. We wanted to feel like we had input and not just that we had input, but maybe they want our input too. We have time on our side and things that we can offer down just as new people can offer up.

1:10:25And then how does it work on the other end, just in terms of how you and Chris get paid at the end of the day? Did you go from being owners that get profits to being on the payroll with a salary, and now you're in a salaried world? Is it still like a version like, Meryl, you've got your revenue, the platform gets a percentage, and then you net what's left in your book? How did that side work? Because that's often a big change when you origin stay from what you had in the past when you ran. It is currently salaried with a three-year window of keeping our business intact, which wasn't scary to us at all, and then having equity in the firm.

1:11:21With the idea that equity gives growth and or profit distributions as part of the cash flow? Yes. And just what's the three-year window? What can they change after three years that they can't change in the first three years? Well, after the three years, it does have a little bit of a cycle of salary plus a and or the percentage you know kind of like the wire house world okay um yeah so the idea is basically they'll hold your comp where it is for three years without having it shift around and then after three years we can go to a more percentage-based system once the dust is settled yes okay uh so it's gonna ask like how how is it going from a world where like the you know the business was right it's like gross revenue minus uh christina and tech equals what you and chris keep and that's not how it works anymore no no you know we we have joked and said oh, we are, you know, we are payroll.

1:12:29And, you know, what we did, you know, it's not always about money. You know, like I had said, at one point, we were like, do we personally, were we set up enough that for Chris and I personally to exit the business and be fine financially? The answer was we could have done that and possibly relocated our clients and helped them find new advisors and then shut the door, turn the lights off. We didn't want to do that. So it wasn't a money. We could have. Okay. So our decision wasn't necessarily based on money. We weren't looking for the highest, you know, what's your business value worth? Clearly, we didn't want the lowest, you know, and maybe somewhere in between and figuring that number out.

1:13:28But it wasn't, you know, get the highest price for our business, you know, and that's going to be the answer. There were, you know, many more important things. Again, clients leading that process. So what actually changed in the day-to-day life for you and Chris as you're now, I mean, you said last July you did the deal, so we're roughly a year in. So what actually changed? How has this played out in practice? Our client relationships have remained the same. Um, we transition, you know, everybody transitioned with us. Many clients really liked the new place we ended up. Um, and when I say where we ended up, it's not as, not a composition, but we went from Pershing to Schwab, you know, so we were repapering the whole book of business and clients like or seem pleased with Schwab.

1:14:35You know, it's a big change for us from Pershing to Schwab. So we've had to do that. In addition, with all our other technology platforms changed. So day-to-day up until this point has been a big change internally. Okay. So what else changed? So custodian changed from Pershing to Schwab. What else? So we had custodian change, accounting reporting went from Morningstar to Black Diamond, which was going to happen anyway because Morningstar office was shutting down. Correct. So we knew that was going to happen anyway. Our CRM email went from Redtail, Zimbra to Salesforce and Outlook. Financial planning went from MoneyGuide Pro to eMoney.

1:15:25Video conferencing, still Zoom, we use Zoom, but now have Microsoft Teams, which is very different for us. Fortunately, DocuSign has stayed the same, but all of our platforms changed. Well, yeah. I mean, when you change custodian portfolio management, CRM, and financial planning software, like those are the three or four anchor things for the business. So like literally everything that matters. Yes. And, and like I said, the clients were awesome and, you know, they, they signed their documents, you know, they got logged in, they're in the portals. They have been great. It's, it's been, I think the bigger change clearly is internally for us, you know, and again, we are a year in, so a lot of the stuff has been learned and we've been taught and, And, you know, but there's things that I'm like, I know how to do this, but I don't remember exactly where to go.

1:16:30And to get that done. It's just, you know, relearn everything. Relearn everything. And, you know, one of the things was they changed our phones over because now they're, you know, part of the teams. And we wanted, two of the three of us wanted physical phones still and not just a headset hooked up to the computer. our phones didn't work for a few days. And I said, I think I commented earlier that when our phone rings, we answer the phone. We really struggled with that. Assuming the phone is capable of ringing. We really struggled with that. And one of the comments was, well, we had also had it set up, the phone would ring and all three of us could see the phone ring or that line ring and pick it up and answer it.

1:17:21Under the new system, they were like, well, everybody's tied to their own number. The client will call this number. And if you're on the phone, it's just going to go to voicemail. And we were like, no, if we're here, it's not going to voicemail. Technology has to allow for that role. And there still are some quirks that show up, but at least now the phone rings. okay again i mean that's sort of the fasting realm of right we we made the technology so efficient to get direct numbers to all the people and auto voicemail it's like but why can't we just make it easy for someone else to pick up the phone if you're busy like oh right i mean the way the phones used to work like why would we still do that like because it's good service well and in in those couple of days, there were two different clients who called.

1:18:17We saw them calling. We could see them, but we couldn't answer. We're like, we see you, but we couldn't pick it up. They were calling back and, or we called them and they were like, well, I kept calling because nobody answered. If nobody answered, something's wrong. Right. Because they know you always have them. So it sounds like the dust at least has mostly settled on those transition issues a few lurking things, but much of that, at least they figured out how to get it to where it needs to be. Yes. Yes. And just how did clients take this news of we're selling the firm, we're merging the firm.

1:18:59The clients were great. And we had clients that beforehand were like, why are you doing this? Why don't you do something? And we had clients when we were at Merrill to be like, go out on your own, go, you know, go do your own thing. So many clients were encouraging. And we also prefaced it as we need these, you know, new teammates and new resources or additional resources, you know, and if not specific for them, but for the other clients, And they were really on board with that and supportive. Like I said, a lot of these clients have been with us so many years. So that evolution, I think they embraced it personally for us.

1:19:52And they seemed okay with it. And so how do you feel now on the other side of the deal? Like, how does time feel for you and Chris? Sounds like that was a driver in the first place. You didn't like the things that your time was getting pulled towards. I think now a year out, we can see more clearly that part of it. We did this for time and that we can focus, you know, back to what we do and where we add value. You know, there were times in this past year that were like, this is crazy. It's taking more time. And it's not. And again, it really, it was our time. It wasn't the clients. The clients weren't being affected by it like we were.

1:20:43At least they didn't tell us they were. And we tried to shelter that. It was more of an internal adjustment for us. And probably because we just went through all that platform, tech platform changes. Everything changed. So how long did it take before you felt like you were actually getting settled into the new platform, new systems? Oh, I would say within, I mean, within six months, we were pretty good. The process and putting things in Salesforce might be a little bit of a lag. And I don't know necessarily that that is us composition or Salesforce in and of itself. I think it's just a different process than what we had.

1:21:29you know there were many things that if a client called and said we need to do this you know I could hang up the phone and I could actually just do it you know and or Christina could do it now our team wants to do it and I get it and it makes sense and that's what we wanted but the steps of getting there like okay I can't just do this directly now I have to put it in a case, an assignment, assign it to somebody and they do it. It's just a different process. It's just a different process. So as you reflect back on this journey, not just the composition transition, but 25 years into this growth journey, what surprised you the most about building your own advisory business?

1:22:20I think what has surprised me over the years is how many truly amazing people you are exposed to of all crossing over all walks of life, be it with our clients, with our peers, with athletes, visionaries. Um, we had a client who's long past, but she led the first all women team to go to Antarctica back in 1969. I mean, just it surprised that we, you know, have that ability to run into all those people and learn so many things that people have accomplished and experienced. So what was the low point for you on this journey? Well, I think low points and high points are kind of a series. So I think you have more than one high point, more than one low point.

1:23:21Low point, one of them, and a few jump out in mind, a low point was 2008, waking up with no power and learning that Merrill Lynch was acquired by Bank of America. And, you know, we had always assumed that was a possibility. I don't know that we thought Bank of America would have been the answer at the time. So that was a little bit of a low point. And, you know, back at Maryland, you were very, you know, committed and loyal. And it was a great place and foundation to be. And in an instant that changed. So that was a low point. And another low point, and more recently, because it's also a high point of this latest journey we took with our business and merging with composition.

1:24:20But during that, in that final phase, Chris suddenly lost his dad at the beginning of 2025. five, simultaneously, my mom was diagnosed with two forms of stage four cancer, and my dad needed to be cured in a nursing home. All while we were doing this business transition. And again, it's also a high point. So it sometimes is how you look at things. And the other low point, and it is getting better, is the number of females and smart, creative, talented women who are in the industry. When I started, it was very small and it's slowly getting more. So again, low point and high point from 1998 to now.

1:25:14And I guess I have to recap in the phones and there was a low point. yeah i understand the frustration like we we literally pride ourselves on the service of picking up the phone and nothing up the phones so so now as you reflect back like what are the i don't think of these as the the pearls of wisdom we gain from experience that you wish you could like go back and tell you 10, 20 plus years ago. Now I know. Oh, I know so many things. The, it probably would be that it's one of the greatest professions where you're able to help people and help them be successful while you are also successful. And you know, the success we were, somebody had said, you're very early on.

1:26:10It's the greatest profession and you only have to work half days, 12 hours from when you hit the office. And it's just been a great profession. And you didn't realize that coming in, like that had to be experienced over time? I do think you do have to experience that over time and that hard work, you know, Don't put the time in. Put the time in up front. So what other advice then would you give younger, newer advisors coming into the profession today and looking forward to their careers? Have faith in the process. When you're starting in the business or if you're growing your business, you know, for example, in a training program back in Maryland had the, you know, a great training program, great foundation and trusting that process, you know, of how to grow your business at the time.

1:27:16And I'm sure it has changed and there were things, there would be things I would do differently now too, but what is working and trusting the process, giving your effort to it and it will pay off. trusting it, being consistent with it, gathering information and embracing it. So as we come to the end, this is a podcast about success. And just one of the themes that comes up that word success means different things to different people, sometimes changes for us through the proverbial seasons of life. And so you built this wonderfully successful business as it's growing past one and a half million of revenue and 240 million of assets.

1:28:03So the business seems in a wonderful place. And you and Chris sound like charged up for more growth from here. How do you define success for yourself personally at this point? Being true to personal and business principles. and this is a team. The three of us working here, Christina and I, we're a team. And now with composition, we're just a bigger team. So how does that change and evolve in your world, your definitions of success? A growth and accomplishment. And part of what we do personally is our business. When you're owning your own business. So growth and accomplishment and being able to share that, you know, it's shared with us internally here.

1:28:59It's shared with our families. It's shared with clients. I love that. Well, thank you, Wendy, for joining us on the Financial Advisor Success Podcast. Well, thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Absolutely.

1:29:12Wendy Ciehanski: Want even more ideas, tools, and resources on how to break through to the next level of success as a financial advisor? Check out the leading financial planning industry blog, Nerd's Eye View, at www.kitsis.com, where Michael covers the latest practice management trends and financial planning strategies. And by joining the members section, you can earn IMCA and CFP continuing education credits along with exclusive member content. Get it all now at www.kitsis.com.