The Internet's Favorite Dermatologist Shares Her Secrets (w/ Dr. Idriss)

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1:55Dr. Shereene Idriss: And how can you hold on to the essence of who you are and show up, and I think this is what people confuse, looking healthy versus looking younger.

2:02Haley: Should we be getting preventative Botox?

2:04Dr. Shereene Idriss: No, I have never been a fan of preventative Botox.

2:07Haley: When it came to starting your skincare line, how much did it cost to start it?

2:11Dr. Shereene Idriss: It was expensive because I wasn't just doing one product. I was working on, at the time, four different products. So it was around a little bit above a million.

2:24Haley: This is Financial Tea.

2:29Haley: What's up, zippers? Welcome back to Financial Tea. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. And today we have my very own dermatologist. Like this woman had a needle in my face about six days ago. And she's likely also your favorite Instagram follow, Dr. Shereen Idris. Thank you so much. And you are here to talk all things beauty and skincare. We need you, girl. So thank you for being here.

2:58Dr. Shereene Idriss: All things beauty and skincare and how you can invest in yourself. Yes. Because you're obviously the investment queen.

3:02Haley: I know. And it's like, there's just so much hearsay out there. I feel like every day there's a new product I'm supposed to get, a new treatment. and it's like a lot of noise yeah i need to know like we i need you to tell us and he like where do we put our money to actually keep looking good and not just fall for all these charlatans

3:20Dr. Shereene Idriss: all right let's jump into it whatever you want to look everything we'll cover everything we're

3:24Haley: covering everything thank you we're gonna be here for three days fine well welcome to the pod i always like to start with a few rapid fire questions okay so what was your best and worst purchase of the week and how much did each cost?

3:37Dr. Shereene Idriss: Ooh. Okay. So my best purchase of the week, I did get a 20 % discount, but it's so expensive, was a, I bought it on today's Thursday. I bought it on Tuesday because my husband wanted to walk and it was really cold. It was this suede jacket with a little bit of like a, like a shearling kind of fur on it. And it was 2 ,500, but I got it, I think for like 2 ,000. Ooh, from where? It was Alice and Olivia because it's under my office. Oh my God. And so I, as I left the office, he told me we're walking 60 blocks and I was like, let me get a coat. And I bought that one because I was like, if I'm going to buy a coat, let it be a coat that I'm going to wear over and over again.

4:12Dr. Shereene Idriss: I love it. Um, the worst purchase of the week was, have I bought anything else? I don't really shop that much unless it's like Amazon, unless it was like some stupid, Oh, I know what it was. It was a stupid TikTok, like skincare buy that's complete BS. What is that? Even you fall for those? I bought it just to see. It was like, Dr. Meloxican something. I'm not even going to give them. Yeah. That's not. What was like the. It was an under eye cream that supposedly helps with discoloration, but it's, it's basically like a concealer.

4:45Haley: Oh my gosh.

4:45Dr. Shereene Idriss: Oh, it's a concealer. But it looks like an under eye cream. And so it was a silly purchase. It was an impulse buy at like 1am.

4:51Haley: Yeah. That's what always happens. Use Apple Pay like Apple be paying. Apple Pay. Yeah. You can go broke on Apple Pay. Okay. What is something that you spend a crazy amount of money on, but you swear by?

5:00Dr. Shereene Idriss: What do I spend? Okay. So I have, as of mid-August, it's definitely, it has a proven track record, but my trainer is very expensive. Oh, I spend money on this too. And I spend money on my trainer and I have decided I do not want to age weak. Like I want to age strong. Yeah. And so I now lift weights two to three times a week at a gym. It's horrible. And I know, but I don't sweat with this trainer and he looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger adjacent. So I'm too scared to like complain. Yes. So I just do what I need to do and I get out. And I feel like this is when I finally started seeing changes in my body that I've never had a bicep.

5:38Dr. Shereene Idriss: And I'm showing everybody my bicep. You want to see? I'll show you guys. Oh my gosh. I have a line. That's crazy. I never had this. It was just like softness. So I'm very proud of myself.

5:49Haley: I'm proud of you too. Okay. So you have this huge social platform that you educate all of us on skincare and aesthetics. And you're such a trusted voice on the internet. I feel like most people who are listening are familiar with you, but if someone's listening and they don't know you, can you just tell them sort of like what you do? Who are you, girl?

6:08Dr. Shereene Idriss: I don't know. I'm still figuring it out. I'm 42. I can tell you that.

6:12Haley: It's actually the Jay Shetty podcast where we go deep. Oh my God.

6:15Dr. Shereene Idriss: We're going to start with VersaClean-Ox. Yes, exactly. Okay. So I'm a 42-year-old certified cosmetic dermatologist based in New York City. I am also a mother of two. I have an eight-year-old and a seven-year-old. in addition to that I go online pretty much every day and my goal is really to help you to empower you to help yourself so that you can really cut through all the bullshit and all the noise and I have a very low barometer for bullshit and I just want people to help themselves for whatever it's worth and so I'm on Instagram YouTube and TikTok educating every week and I also own my practice in New York City Idris Dermatology that I run and I also have a skincare brand called Dr.

6:55Dr. Shereene Idriss: Idris and I'm the CEO and founder of that where we are at every available support in the US and Canada.

7:00Haley: Oh and by the way if you subscribe to my YouTube and Dr. Idris's YouTube then you will get entered into a giveaway to win one of her major fade systems which are amazing.

7:12Dr. Shereene Idriss: Which is basically all you need to try to target discoloration in three simple steps.

7:16Haley: It's so good and I even before I saw you I was using your products. I think they're so gentle but also they work so well.

7:22Dr. Shereene Idriss: No, thank you. I mean, that's the goal. It's like I wanted them to be effective enough to really see a difference, but not fight your skin so that you want to give up.

7:30Haley: Okay, so I obviously post a lot about money online. But what's so interesting is that every time I cover skincare or like if I talk about how I am resistant to Botox, you guys, I'm not like being brave. I wish I didn't have these. I've tried really hard, which we'll get into. I get so much engagement. And I think it's just because people see so much information online and have trouble sort of parsing what to pay attention to what to ignore. So my goal from today's episode is to really have you as this expert voice to just cut through the noise and break down the beauty and skincare from a financial perspective.

8:03Haley: Because like, girl, if I was buying all of these 400 creams that the influencers are shelling, I would be broke. We all would be. Yeah. And it's like, And even I like try and be careful about the skincare buying and I'm still like I have too much. So we really need your help. So let's start with if you had$70 to build someone's starter routine, what would you buy?

8:25Dr. Shereene Idriss: I mean, if I only had$70 to build a routine, the most important thing you have to ask yourself again is what is your biggest issue? And let's just assume that your biggest issue right now is just you need a routine for basic hygiene and moisture, right? I would get a cleanser, but I would use the cleanser only at night for the most part, as long as your skin is healthy, happy, and not inflamed and not oil-acting prone.

8:48Haley: So I've heard this. So you're not supposed to wash your face in the morning.

8:51Dr. Shereene Idriss: I wash my face with water in the morning. I cleanse at night. So I get the day off at night. So I'd get a cleanser. Number two, as we get older, our skin cells don't turn over as regularly. So it's important that we exfoliate a little bit more regularly the older we get, especially post 40. So I would get a glycolic acid exfoliating acid because glycolic acid can also help hold onto hydration and in the long term help promote collagen production. Number three, I would invest in a moisturizer that fits my skin type for the environment that I'm in. So if I live somewhere very humid and I am, let's say a little bit oilier, I'd get something lighter like a gel moisturizer.

9:30Dr. Shereene Idriss: If I'm very dry and I live in the middle of the desert, I would want something way thicker. And so your environment does dictate how your skin responds. So I would make sure that I get a moisturizer, the thickness based on my skin type and the environment. And then obviously a sunscreen.

9:45Haley: So good. Okay. Love. And where do you think that spending more on skincare actually improves the result? Like where are we paying for packaging or texture or the fantasy?

9:57Dr. Shereene Idriss: Yeah. I mean, I think it's very hard to say that the more expensive a product is, the better it's going to be. So I don't think you can have that blanketed statement. But I do think that brands and companies that are really doing a lot of research and development, clinical studies, trying to get all of that information to back the products that you're getting, or especially products that are multi-ingredient stories, are going to just be a little bit naturally more expensive. But I think you want to look for brands that are really having clinical studies backing their products. Are they referring to ingredients that are tried and true, at least if you're a novice, if it's something that is new, that is like a buzzword, like a trendy ingredient, oftentimes the marketing is leading the science.

10:38Haley: Salmon sperm, exosomes, PDRN, like all of that

10:42Dr. Shereene Idriss: stuff. Like one thing when done in a clinic as an injection is very different than something applied topically to your skin. And so I don't fall for that noise. Right. And I would much rather that you build a routine on tried and trues versus trends because a trend has not yet stood the test of time.

10:59Haley: So are there any expensive products that you could name that you're like, okay, those ones are actually really good and worth it?

11:05Dr. Shereene Idriss: I think there are some. I think there are some, I think, for example, if you're looking at like growth factor serums, right? Skin Medica is a very expensive one. Their TNS serum, but they have years of like their data. It's granted their data to back it up, but it's there. Alastin is another company that also has a growth factor product. I think you have to understand what it is that you're trying to buy. If it's a$300 hyaluronic acid serum, no, absolutely not. Please don't even, if someone like brings it in my office, I'll take it and be like, I'm going to throw this, but I feel bad that you spent this money.

11:37Dr. Shereene Idriss: But you know, I probably would toss it in the trash for them so that they can see the visual that they do not need to spend that money on that. But yeah, I think if you're looking for things that have more data behind it, like those, sure, those are more expensive, but why not? Okay.

11:49Haley: Love that. And on the other hand, are there three drugstore products that you would recommend to patients? Yeah, sure.

11:56Dr. Shereene Idriss: I think once you have your routine that is targeted, the universals that are always good to kind of plug and play is like Vaseline. As simple as it is, it is a, I have it basically in my bathroom, my kid's bathroom, because if you have a nick, it can help. You don't need to use for it. If you're somebody who's very dry and you have your routine, but you want something extra, you can layer it on top. If you're having a skin reaction that you're reacting to something, stop everything and just use Vaseline almost as an occlusive to get your skin back into what it used to be. So that's an easy one.

12:30Dr. Shereene Idriss: Number two, for people who have problematic skin, benzoyl peroxide wash. Great. 12 bucks. You don't need to do more and that will keep the bacteria at bay. And on the same sort of spectrum, ketoconazole shampoo, Nizoral shampoo. Oh yeah, you post about that. Yeah, because a lot of people have dandruff on their scalp, but they also have it on their face where they're constantly flaking right here or in their eyebrows. And so to be able to use that as a face wash is also very helpful to keep all that inflammation quiet.

13:01Haley: Okay, I love that. So are there certain things that you think you can absolutely get cheap, like a cleanser? Do you think like a cheap cleanser is totally fine, but then get the nicer lotion?

13:10Dr. Shereene Idriss: Yeah, you do not need to be spending$150 on a cleanser. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find a cleanser that works for you because it's going to be the foundational step of your skincare routine. And it doesn't have to cost you more than like 15 to 50 bucks at most. And if you're someone with a sensitive eyes, that's why I did my cleanser. But you can pick your own depending on what you need. Number two, I do not think you need a dedicated single ingredient serum. I think this was a trend in 2020, 2021 when we were all becoming cosmetic chemists at home. But I think it is time for us to evolve. And I think multi-ingredient stories that can do multiple things at once are the most beneficial.

13:46Dr. Shereene Idriss: And when it comes to hydration, there's always going to be some element of hydration from the products that you're getting. So compound your products to really benefit your problem. And if you really need that extra hydration, layer it in at the end. But don't put the investment up front on just a hydrating serum. Because you're going to have glycerin in products. You're going to have hyaluronic acid in products. You're going to have all of that in products. So I think those are probably the two biggest takeaways in terms of like how do you simplify your routine? before like spending a lot of money.

14:13Haley: Okay, great. So we don't have to spend a lot.

14:15Dr. Shereene Idriss: And you don't need to spend money also on face masks.

14:16Haley: Oh, yeah.

14:17Dr. Shereene Idriss: Face masks are nice to have. I'm not talking about LED. I'm talking about the sheet masks. Yeah. But nine out of 10 of my patients, at least from my experience and my interactions with them, they're not using these on a regular basis. No, it's before and about. So why are we spending$200 on sheet masks that are being used maybe once every couple of whatever? I'd rather you spend the money on something you're getting much more consistently throughout the course of your life than every once in a while.

14:41Haley: And the eye masks drive me crazy too, where now the influencers are normalizing that you have to have a single use eye mask every day when you do your makeup. I'm like, in what world?

14:50Dr. Shereene Idriss: In what world? And how long are you getting ready for? Yeah, exactly. Because you have to let it sit for so long. You have to let it sit. And then put it on for four minutes. I have literally, like probably on a good day, eight minutes. I know. So that's a good day where I get to sit down. Yeah.

15:02Haley: So I don't understand when, like when we're supposed to use the eye mask. And they're so expensive. All the big brands. All of them.

15:08Dr. Shereene Idriss: and then you just toss them in the trash. You're like, what am I doing?

15:10Haley: Yeah. There is nothing quite like having pieces in your closet that you just love and know that you can count on for any damn occasion. Except maybe giving someone else that same feeling. So this holiday season, Quince is where I am finding those pieces. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. The kind of pieces you'd be just as happy gifting as you would be to unwrap. Quince also has gifts that keep giving all season long, like their high quality down outerwear and cozy cashmere gloves and scarves. Give the gift of quality this holiday season.

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16:38Haley: I feel like a good place to start, though, with your skincare advice, although we've jumped in, is to sort of break it down by age. So what I was thinking is that you could maybe give us general skincare advice for someone in their 20s, then someone in their 30s, and then in their 40s. And then we can talk about how that advice sort of differs for each decade. Because do we need to get facelifts in our 30s? We've got to do that, but we'll start there.

17:01Dr. Shereene Idriss: Okay. So skincare advice in your 20s, I think you really want to shut down the noise and really not give into peer pressure because you're going to see on social media, you need so many things. You do not. Your 20s, you're never going to be as good as that again. You're going to be a plump little chicken. You're a plump chicken. Not for much longer than that. Enjoy the plumpness. And enjoy your little chicken state and really protect what you have. I think that is the biggest thing about your 20s is getting into the habits of learning how to protect what you have and really developing a routine that is based on habits, whether it is washing your face, learning how to moisturize your face so you're not overdoing it, maybe starting to incorporate some kind of retinoid because our collagen all starts to decline starting in our late 20s, and using sunscreen, finding the sunscreen that you'll actually want to use, kiss many frogs and figure it out.

17:52Dr. Shereene Idriss: In your 30s, it's really about being more proactive. If you're noticing things that are starting to become problematic, getting ahead. So for me, in my 30s, I went through IVF. I had a lot of hormonal treatments. I also used to burn a lot as a kid because I used to be like, go sit in the sun, get some color, go be healthy. And so I started to notice a lot of discoloration, hyperpigmentation, and then melasma. And so for me, my 30s was really about trying to figure out a routine to start to suppress that hyperpigmentation and that discoloration so that I'm not finding myself in my 40s trying to reverse all the damage.

18:28Dr. Shereene Idriss: And so that's really was the foundational basis of my Dr. Idris major fade line because I used to be on a 12-step routine. And so for you in your 30s, it was redonkulous and it's documented in a Harper's Bazaar, go to bed with me. Whereas afterwards, once my kids started crawling, I was like, I can't do this. Like zero chance. And so that's how major fade came about. And that's how I simplified it. But whatever your problem is, get ahead and start to really figure out how can you get ahead so that it doesn't become a bigger problem that you're constantly trying to reverse. And that's where your 30s are at, right?

19:02Dr. Shereene Idriss: And then your 40s, I think it's really about how can you like preserve what you have. My goal with aging is, and for me and my patients is truly about like, how can I hold on to who I am, you know, while enjoying every stage of life without trying to be 25 at 45? I'm 42 now. And how can you hold on to the essence of who you are and show up? And I think this is what people confuse looking healthy versus looking younger. And I think that's the biggest goal in your 40s, whether it is introducing in-office treatments, or if you've already done it in your 30s, and you're trying to now just get a step ahead in your 40s, or having a solid skincare routine that you're slowly expanding on, whether it's growth factor serums or a different peptide serum or something a little bit stronger.

19:47Dr. Shereene Idriss: That's where your 40s are at. Preserving who you are, holding on to the quality of your skin and making sure it shows up in a healthy way every single day versus trying to turn back time and be somebody that you're never going to be again because that time has passed.

20:02Haley: Totally, I love that. And do you think that in your 20s, there's people spending on things that they'd be better off saving for later? like should we be getting preventative Botox?

20:12Dr. Shereene Idriss: No, I have never been a fan of preventative Botox. And I think that also is probably why you are so resistant. Yeah, because I got it. Not to call you out.

20:21Haley: No, it was I got it for free when I was like in like 26 or 27. And then like this is guys, I'm 35. Everyone thinks that I'm like, being brave by not having by having my forehead move. But I've really tried like every kind of yeah, I'm completely resistant. it.

20:38Dr. Shereene Idriss: So I think the idea of preventative Botox feeds into fear. You should not be fearing the aging process in your 20s. If anything, it's such a privilege that we can all get older. But let's choose how we want to age. And we have so many luxuries available to us that we can choose to age better if we want to for ourselves, right? And it's not because it's being imposed on us. But at 20, 8 out of 10 20-year-olds don't have built-in lines. So you're basically blocking movement altogether because you're trying to never get that line to form which i can understand the concept yeah that's what they say you don't want to have i can understand the concept but again like you may never have formed that line to begin with so what are we doing yeah pissing money away instead go to paris yeah go have a life experience instead of it if you are going to try to get botox at a younger age let's say you're the two out of ten that has a deep line and you look angry at rest, I would strongly advise that you space out your treatments.

21:36Dr. Shereene Idriss: Yeah, that's what it messed me up. You're going to get told you need to probably do this every three to four months because the average duration of Botox is 10 to 12 weeks. However, I would strongly encourage you that you let your muscle movement come back, that you let your emotions show on your face and you let your muscle memory come back because you don't want to lose that completely and lose the essence of who you are. But on the worst case scenario, end up in a place where you are now... Me, the worst case scenario. Awesome. more resistant to it. And then they're going to tell you, okay, but maybe we should try a different type of Botox.

22:10Dr. Shereene Idriss: However, it's botulinum toxin type A that we are injecting, whether that's Botox, Dysport, Gevo, Xeomin, Daxify, right? Nice in the US. And they're all variations of the same type. So you're not really going to avoid that quote unquote resistance by switching the types of Botox unless you get botulinum toxin type B, which is known as myoblock, which most people don't inject. And the duration of that is still very short.

22:37Haley: Yeah. And I heard that you would get resistance to that really fast. You can also get resistance. Yeah. So it's like a lever that you should pull.

22:43Dr. Shereene Idriss: A worse, like you're getting married. Yes. That's what I was thinking. Save it for the wedding. Save it for the wedding.

22:48Haley: Exactly. I'm like, I'm not going to be until I'm walking down that aisle, honey.

22:52Dr. Shereene Idriss: We'll figure that out. Yes.

22:53Haley: We'll figure it out when we get there. But with being immune to Botox? Have you seen that before? Like, is there anything that can be done to turn it around? I'm not just asking selfishly for me because when I post about this, it goes so viral every time just because a lot of people DM me that their Botox isn't lasting as long. Okay. So there's two things here.

23:09Dr. Shereene Idriss: Hold on. Okay. So true immunity is rare. Okay. There is resistance that can happen. And if you have resistance to what your point, what you've done, You got to take time, like over a year where you get nothing and then try it again. Yeah. That could help. However, what you just said about it doesn't last as long is something that I see all the time. And I always warn patients, especially people who've never had Botox, the first time you get it, maybe the first two, maybe even the first five. It's going to be incredible. It will last maybe five, six months. And you feel like, wow, this has lasted so long.

23:48Dr. Shereene Idriss: Addictive. But the true duration of Botox is 10 to 12 weeks. And the way it wears off is not like, ding, it's like you get it done, then you look good. And then one day you have more movement, then one day you have less movement, then one day you have more movement. And it kind of has this undulating pattern until it finally wears off. So there is a period after the beginning where that happens. And then fast forward 10 years, it starts lasting a little bit longer again. Oh, whoa. Because your muscle gives a little bit over time. and so you have to live through the different phases the danger is once it starts really doing this undulating thing you start thinking i need it every three to four months i would strongly

24:29Haley: advise that you still push it out that's all i'm going to do and really get your muscle memory back

24:33Dr. Shereene Idriss: and not feed into the fear of this and you having to get it every three months because you're going

24:38Haley: to buy yourself a bigger problem yeah and that's also better financially too because something i feel like people don't think about with, you know, injectables in office treatments, but also skincare in general, is that these are subscriptions. We all talk about Spotify and Netflix on our balance sheets, but what about the Botox every three months? No, you're right.

24:57Dr. Shereene Idriss: Very smart that you think of it that way. And what I tell also patients is like, you don't want to feel like you are beholden to this every three months. You want to view, for example, Botox as giving your face moments of pause. So you're slowing down the aging process. It's not stopping it, but you don't want to be chasing it all the time where you need it every three months. And now you're spending so much money getting it every three months, but you're not being happy because it's coming back. So if you change your perspective and really just view it as like, it's a moment of pause twice a year.

25:26Dr. Shereene Idriss: It's a much happier subscription than feeling married to it every three months on the dot.

25:31Haley: Totally. So, but with the, you know, whenever you have an issue with your skin, then the internet will give you a solution that you have to pay for. So with the Botox not working, the new solution is, oh, should I be face taping? And then I have to pay for all the face tape. And so it's like, do we believe in that? Listen, I mean, face taping, if you put any sort of silicone-based tape on your face,

25:57Dr. Shereene Idriss: it's going to hold on to the moisture in your skin slightly better. It's going to minimize the appearance of the very superficial fine lines, at least for a few minutes to maybe an hour or two after you wake up and you take it off.

26:09Haley: If there takes you 20 minutes to do the whole tape routine, it's so intense.

26:12Dr. Shereene Idriss: Now people swear by it. If that makes them happy, great. I'm not going to knock it. Yeah. Do you know? And if you have the bandwidth and the ability and the desire to do it, God bless. Thank you. But if it is going to add more stress, which would add to my plate, that I think I have to do this every night and figure out how to do it correctly and go to sleep and not move in my bed. I would not, I won't, it doesn't fit my vibe. And so I would rather not do it.

26:38Haley: I love it. Thank you for that. Okay. Let's pivot to hair health because that is something that's been taking over my group chats for sure. And my Instagram feed, I feel like also with all the GLP one usage, there's so much thinning now and shedding. And also just like when you're young, like I never thought about my hair when I was little, I had like a big, I think there was

26:57Dr. Shereene Idriss: also stigma. No one talks about hair loss when you were younger, like I'm 42. Yeah. But growing up women were not talking about hair loss. Yeah.

27:04Haley: So true. And now it's like a thing and you, you know, it's a normalization to use minoxidil. And, you know, I, now it just feels like this other bucket that I'm supposed to be paying into more subscriptions to my beauty routine of my supplements and my, you know, I got to get new shampoo and should I get a hair serum and minoxidil? And it's just like, what is worth the money? And when should someone like skip it? And like, how do we keep our hair?

27:28Dr. Shereene Idriss: First things first, I'm going to take you off the edge. yes i'm like i'm like walk you back the botox doesn't work and i'm balding let me walk you back okay okay let me walk you back okay okay first things first okay we're gonna take a deep breath and oh yeah okay okay okay okay take some dick a sip of your diet coke cook it's high all right first things first you want to make sure that your base is healthy are we iron deficient do we have a well-balanced diet no supplement is going to replace a well-balanced diet no supplement. Okay. So forget it. Just have a well-balanced diet. Are we vitamin D deficient?

28:05Dr. Shereene Idriss: Have we checked common things that are off that affect hair, like thyroid dysfunction? So I want to make sure that the foundational stuff are covered before we jump into this. And then there's obviously a million options, but we have to think of it as what is the over-the-counter form to a little bit more intense, to prescription, to potentially treatment. And what is it that I want to do for myself, right? If it is truly female pattern hair loss, there is no cure.

28:35Haley: And this is just genetic or?

28:37Dr. Shereene Idriss: Genetic and hormone related. Okay.

28:39Haley: And is it, does it come later in life or this is something you would have had your whole life?

28:43Dr. Shereene Idriss: It tends to start affecting women more so in their early, late twenties, early thirties. And people start to see a shift more so then. Okay. I struggled with hair loss and I'm currently on treatment. I know you look at this. I know if I show you my before pictures, I'll show you some pictures on my phone. Okay. But there's many different things that you can choose to do. But I think you have to wonder, ask yourself first, how bad is the hair loss and how much of it is affecting your mental wellbeing? If your mental wellbeing is really affected, we will throw the kitchen sink at it and then figure out what is working by paring stuff back.

29:20Dr. Shereene Idriss: So you're not doing all the things all the time until you're at a better baseline and you feel happier. And what do I mean by the kitchen sink? Starting with over the counter. You have hair supplements, which might be helpful, but not really if you're not on a well-balanced diet, right? Number two.

29:34Haley: So skip the Nutrafol, skip the WellBal.

29:36Dr. Shereene Idriss: I'm not skipping it. I was on Nutrafol. I did feel like it allowed my hair to stay on my head longer and I wasn't shedding as much. So again, and I had a very healthy diet. I'm not someone who doesn't eat. I love food. So I'm like all the things. I did use that at one point. Then you have topical minoxidil. Don't buy the one for women. Buy the one for men. We don't want to pay the pink tax. It is real. Okay. And so buy it 5 % and see if that works for you. I developed an allergy to topical minoxidil. So I got very, very flaky and shitty. I looked like I had dandruff, so I couldn't tolerate it as well.

30:09Dr. Shereene Idriss: And then you have in office, you know, and then there's other things over the counter, like ketoconazole shampoo that could potentially also be helpful on the margin. So why not throw it in there and see if it helps with better scalp health. But then beyond that in office, you have PRP where you take your own blood and we inject it and we see if you respond. I respond to PRP. And so it did help sustain my hair growth in my thirties. And it was helpful there. So if you know that it works for you, great. You can do it as little as often as you find yourself. You can figure out your own timeline with it once you know you respond.

30:41Dr. Shereene Idriss: And then you have as well prescription medications. So in the prescription front, there are medications that can help to stimulate hair growth, like minoxidil, pills, not the topical. And then there are prescription medications that help to counterbalance the effects of androgens on hair loss. So like spironolactone. And so depending on what your issue is, we can then decide to go on a pill or not. But it's important to understand it's not a cure. So this is something we're subscribing to over the course of our life.

31:11Haley: So this is a real subscription. It's a real subscription.

31:15Dr. Shereene Idriss: Can you stop it? Sure.

31:16Haley: But you're going to lose your hair.

31:18Dr. Shereene Idriss: And I have the discussion, especially with women, if they're choosing to get pregnant or wanting to get pregnant, do we do this after? Yeah. Because there's, you know, or are you so affected mentally by it that you want to do it before and you'll deal with the hair loss while you're pregnant? Like we have to have those very honest discussions up front because it's all part of it. And then there are people who are on the very severe end of the spectrum where it's not spoken about nearly enough who are candidates for hair transplants and women are candidates for hair transplants too it's not just for men not just men in turkey it's not just men in turkey yeah yeah send the women to turkey too dr idris or i have someone i'm looking for someone from my office who loves hair yes this is if anyone's looking for a job who's a transplant i'm looking for someone because i think that is something that is really part of the aging process you know that really affects and impacts women very very deeply so and so So you really have to kind of have this very holistic view of hair.

32:11Haley: Well, I feel like I still don't understand what are the products that really actually move the needle, like the supplements or whatever, but you're supposed to use.

32:17Dr. Shereene Idriss: The supplements are whatever. So after I switched from supplements to topical, I did PRP.

32:21Haley: Oh, so the minoxidil and the PRP really helps.

32:24Dr. Shereene Idriss: For me, it was really the prescriptions. I still occasionally do PRP. I'm playing now with the idea of hair secret homes, which is you can culture a molecule from the root of your hair. My God, you're a scientist. To culture it. It's expensive. but you can culture it and then you can reintroduce it. So I did my first treatment like a month ago. I'm neither here nor there. I will let you guys know how that one works. But the science is very interesting there.

32:48Haley: And how much would it cost to get PRP on your head, do you think?

32:52Dr. Shereene Idriss: PRP is probably anywhere from$1 ,500 to$2 ,400 or$2 ,500 a session. Okay. Depending where and how you're getting it done.

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33:37Haley: Cold beer for the group is a given, but this time of year, I like to bring in some fall flavors. A bottle of maple whiskey and a salted caramel whiskey that even my friends who don't drink whiskey end up trying. I get everything I need at the lowest prices at Total Wine. Discover your new favorite fall flavors at Total Wine and more. Spirits are not sold in Virginia

33:55Dr. Shereene Idriss: and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Must be 21.

33:58Haley: Okay, now I want to pivot to lasers because if you thought that I messed up my face with Botox Girl, you're going to love my laser story. So me, skin, no issues, just normal, no pigment. Just living my damn life. How old were you? I was like 31, maybe 32. And my sister was getting married. So obviously I was the bride. And so I was like, okay, I need to do an in-office treatment to get ready for this big event. And I was so influenced, of course, by all the influencers in my feed, always going to the derm, getting their faces singed off, getting the lasers. So I thought, great. I had a friend who had just gotten Fraxel.

34:41Haley: I thought, I want to do Fraxel. Did I think about what my skin needed? No. I just was like, great. She did Fraxel. That'll work for me. Didn't think about like if our skins were the same or anything. And by the way, the practitioner didn't look at my skin or anything. They were like, okay, if you want to do Fraxel, we'll do Fraxel and did it to me. The same day? Yeah. I was just, I already booked it. Like it wasn't like a discussion.

35:03Dr. Shereene Idriss: You picked it and you booked it.

35:04Haley: Yeah. I picked it and booked it, which like, I feel like it's, you shouldn't be allowed to. Like a red flag. Yeah. Red flag is like when you're, why I didn't go to medical school. Why am I telling you what to do? But anyways, he did it. It was a guy, of course. And guess what? Looked amazing for the wedding, but then it gave me melasma. And now your girl Haley, you can't tell cause I cover it up, which is a good thing about melasma. You can uncover it, but I have full melasma. And I just feel like this is a good example of when you fall for a trend instead of really like considering yourself and what you need.

35:34Haley: And so, and I feel like, I don't know, I speak for my audience when like we are all laser curious. Yeah. So what should someone ask or check before paying for a laser or any in-office treatment that you see online? Because I don't know, you really do have to advocate for yourself. And I'm a good example of, I got a little botched.

35:51Dr. Shereene Idriss: Okay. To make you feel better. I'm not defending the practitioner. I don't know who did this. I don't want to know.

35:55Haley: Oh, by the way, every person that's messed me up, top doctors in New York City. I'm not doing like Rupon Botox.

36:01Dr. Shereene Idriss: I will tell you, melasma wasn't caused by the laser, but it probably woke it up. Yeah, woke it up. So you were probably prone to it. Yeah. So don't kick yourself too hard. Yeah. Okay, that you have it. So it's going to come out at some point. It was probably going to come out, you know, through some form in your life because melasma is really tricky. And I say like melasma is a bitch. Like she is like one minute she's quiet, one minute she's like in your face. Yeah, yeah. And she's permanent. And she's permanent. And heat can trigger it. Hormones can trigger it. Pregnancy can trigger it. Menopause can trigger it.

36:29Dr. Shereene Idriss: Stress can trigger it. So, so many things can trigger it. But I do agree with you that you have to have an understanding of what lasers are because lasers are just like a category, right? And if you're thinking about laser treatment, lasers can really do one of three things. If you're really specifically talking about a laser, not a device, a laser. A laser can either target pigment. it can either target redness or it can target target water for collagen and depending on how the heat is delivered it's also different for each one so again it's not universal but when you are prone to melasma i personally have found in my practice as well and personally anything that is breaking your skin barrier and introducing heat is not something you want to do so cavalierly okay because it will wake up faster but can you get other laser treatments you could definitely get a laser for redness where i'm not breaking your skin barrier down at all and if anything i have also seen anecdotally that it can help a bit with melasma because it's minimizing that heat flush that you get in your face that might wake it up so there are other lasers that could potentially benefit you if that's your problem um but so i don't want you to be scared of lasers as a whole, but I do want you to approach - I am.

37:41Dr. Shereene Idriss: I was told like you can only do chemical peels. I want you to approach lasers with much more skepticism, but not fear them. So it's good to ask the questions to understand, you know, like how is this going to impact my melasma or can it cause any other issues that I don't need to know about? I think those are very, very, like very good questions to ask before you decide to do anything. But I don't want you to be scared of the whole category as a whole, because some treatments could still help you without affecting your melasma or causing another issue.

38:10Haley: Why don't you know it's time to do a laser? Like obviously you're sweating.

38:13Dr. Shereene Idriss: So when I think of laser treatments, right? Pigment, redness, or texture, I ask myself, number one, for pigment, am I on the right skincare routine?

38:22Haley: Yeah, so start there.

38:22Dr. Shereene Idriss: Over the counter. That's why I get major fade. Have I boosted it with a prescription like hydroquinone to see if I can get even more benefit from it? And then I decide, is this something that is really worth it for me for what I'm trying to achieve? So my skincare routine has to reflect what I'm trying to get out of the laser. When it comes to redness, redness is trickier because redness could be due to an inflamed skin barrier. It could be vascular. If it's an inflamed skin barrier, it's skincare. If it's vascular and reactive and you flush and you get nervous and your ears get red and it impacts how you show up, it's gonna be a laser treatment.

38:53Dr. Shereene Idriss: And I think the V-beam, the Pulse Dye laser is the most underrated laser in a cosmetic derm practice because it can really make a huge difference over time and you don't see it until you see it. And then number three is texture. And I have to ask, like, is it fine line texture or is it deeper acne scar texture? Like, are we trying to remodel the skin? Because if it's deeper texture, it's not just laser treatments that I'm going to do. I'm going to do a multitude of different things affecting your skin from the outside in and the inside out from subsision to lasers, to microneedling with heat, to like resurfacing.

39:28Dr. Shereene Idriss: So it's many different things. If it's very fine line situational texture, then we can discuss a laser treatment only if I know you're on the right skincare routine again. Have you tried, have you been on a retinoid? How has, you know, other treatments in office affected those fine lines, whether it's Botox or Sculptra or filler or fat transfer, etc. And then we talk about the laser treatments.

39:50Haley: Okay, so you basically need a good practitioner to help you.

39:52Dr. Shereene Idriss: I think you have to look at you as a whole. Yeah. It can't just be, you can't look at a detail. That's why I don't have a magnifying.

39:58Haley: And don't look at an influencer.

39:59Dr. Shereene Idriss: Yeah, don't look at an influencer. Don't look at a magnifying mirror. I don't believe in getting CO2 lasers at 20 years old if you've never had acne scars.

40:05Haley: Oh my gosh, I see that online all the time too. All the time.

40:07Dr. Shereene Idriss: And you're like, they're going to look like wax figurines by the time they hit 40, 50. So crazy. And you're like, what are we trying to achieve here?

40:13Haley: For lasers, how much do they cost? Like how much should you be budgeting for if you want to have your first laser treatment?

40:20Dr. Shereene Idriss: I mean, anywhere from like$1 ,500 to like$2 ,500. It depends.

40:25Haley: And how often do you have to do it?

40:27Dr. Shereene Idriss: I don't believe in signing people up for a subscription of laser treatments. Okay. I think you have to, depending on what the issue is, like let's say it's pigment and you're on the right routine. Let's do one and see how good we get and see if now prescriptions can hold it and keep it going. You know, I don't like people doing two or three or four.

40:43Haley: Yeah.

40:44Dr. Shereene Idriss: I think you kind of have to see where you're at in terms of like your skincare routine, prescription and how much benefit you get from one treatment. Some person might be so happy with one. Some person might, another person might need two or three.

40:56Haley: Okay. So you just mentioned retinol, which is another thing that really confuses me and probably confuses a lot of people listening to you because it's like, everyone's always online talking about your retinol. You're such a loser if you don't use your retinol. I don't know how to use retinol. And now there's a new viral trend, Dr. Idris, of tretinoin and azelic acid. And so should we all be doing this? Can you break this down? Like, I am a loser. No, you're not a loser at all. You're my doctor. You're a loser. Why are I in retinol? Yeah, we'll talk about that after.

41:24Dr. Shereene Idriss: So, cause I, the reason you're not on it yet is cause I want to really get your pigment down first. And then hydroquinone can be irritating. And so I didn't want to irritate you with hydroquinone and Tret. And I don't like the compounded one that has a steroid cause I don't want you using that. And so I'm trying to first get that under control. Yes. We're being targeted. We're being targeted and we're being systematic cause we have time on our side. We sure do. That's what we're doing. Okay. Thanks love. You're welcome. You're in charge. You're a part of it. I'm a part of it. Yeah, yeah. of words.

41:51Dr. Shereene Idriss: But I will tell you that retinoids are confusing to many different people. I think because we inter use words like retinol and TRET, but they're both part of the retinoid family of vitamin A, right? So retinol is a vitamin A? It's a vitamin A. TRET is a vitamin A. And a retinol is a weaker form of vitamin A that has to get converted twice to become TRET. So it's inactive versus TRET is active. And people in the U.S. and abroad all think that stronger is better. But it's not. Because stronger can come with inflammation, irritation, purging, flakiness, redness, and actually stronger can maybe inflame your melasma.

42:32Dr. Shereene Idriss: So consistency over intensity when it comes to the retinoid gain. And I'm so happy because I feel like in the past year, I'm seeing a shift in the literature and also among dermatologists online where they're finally saying it more as well. We're like, less is more. If you can tolerate a lighter retinol or something that is a little bit gentler within the vitamin A category on a much more regular basis, you're going to have better long-term outcomes.

42:56Haley: When it came to starting your skincare line, how much did it cost to start it?

43:00Dr. Shereene Idriss: It was expensive because I wasn't just doing one product. I was working on at the time four different products. So it was around a little bit above a million.

43:11Haley: And that was cash you made that you say that you were like, I'm going to invest back in myself. And it was a

43:15Dr. Shereene Idriss: big discussion to be had. Like I was sitting with my husband and I was like, we have two kids, you know, it was 2021, 2021, the world was a little bit unstable. He knew I had this money saved also for the office. And he was like, listen, you don't have to spend the million all at once. It's not like you're spending it all at once. But ultimately you are your own best investment. And if you think this is something you want to do, he's like, I believe in you. And we're still young enough that we can take this risk, that we can try to put it towards the brand and if it doesn't work out you can always it's always good that you've tried it because you don't want to live with the regret of not having tried it and we were fortunate that he had a job and I had a job and so we had to do it yeah where it wasn't like we were sitting on this hoping and praying and so for me it was like okay am I going to use this money to buy an extra laser which I didn't choose to do for the practice because lasers are at least like quarter to half a million bucks depending and do you lease them or you buy them I initially leased to buy but now I just buy them.

44:12Dr. Shereene Idriss: So it's just -

44:12Haley: And how long does a laser last for?

44:14Dr. Shereene Idriss: I mean, a long time, a long time. You know, like Fraxel has been around for a very long time. But I chose not to buy two lasers. I kept them for later on purchases and I didn't take the whole practice and I took that money instead and said, okay, let's start to invest it over the next three to four years within the skincare brand. And that's how I built it.

44:32Haley: And now how much is it worth?

44:35Dr. Shereene Idriss: It's a great question. Those numbers, it's an internal, know it's private yeah is it but it's cash flow positive it is i mean it's it is cash flow positive but everything you make in the brand goes back into the brand yeah so i'm not making money from the brand i'm reinvesting it every year if i'm trying to grow yeah and that's where like at this point you're like at what point do you take an investment because it's so hard to keep up and if you're trying to grow it's not like you're trying to grow yeah so you might need a bigger influx yeah for what i could sustain because i've been able to sustain it but it's been slow and steady.

45:05Dr. Shereene Idriss: Right. And so I'm not, I don't take home a salary from the skincare brand. No.

45:10Haley: Okay. And then, you know, it's so amazing to hear about your husband. I love watching you guys on social media. And it really just reminds me that you're the biggest financial decision that you will ever make. It's who you married. Exactly.

45:20Dr. Shereene Idriss: It's the most important decision because I think about this all the time. Like if I was married to another human that I've known in my life, right. Would they have believed in me or have been able to willing to take that financial risk or willing to push me forward or wanting me to have the success that I have as a woman and he's a man. And there are so many people that you see who are threatened by even the slightest success and to have someone who's just confident in themselves and so happy for my success is like the best investment of all. Like really, who are you going to spend your life with?

45:52Dr. Shereene Idriss: Who's going to be your cheerleader and who's going to be the person by your side?

45:55Haley: Well, Dr. Idris, thank you so much for coming on the show. I feel like this will be the first of many episodes together because So we definitely need your wisdom.

46:02Dr. Shereene Idriss: I could just hang out with you. I know. I'm hanging out with you after we're done taking. We are.

46:05Haley: I was like, what are you doing after? Clear your schedule. I did. I did. I canceled my patients. I can't wait. But thank you so much, Sippers, for listening. And reminder that we are doing an amazing giveaway of Dr. Idris products. We're giving away. I'm so excited.

46:18Dr. Shereene Idriss: Yes. Tell them what it is. Okay. So you guys are going to be getting the Major Fade set, which is three different products that target pigmentation through different ways. Two of which, the serum and the moisturizer I use every day, twice a day. and the mask, the exfoliating mask, probably. I love that mask. That's the one that keeps winning awards. It's so funny. But for me, the serum is the powerhouse. But the mask I use probably two to four times a week at night, only at night. And so you guys can be brighter humans from the outside in.

46:44Haley: All you have to do is subscribe to both of our YouTube channels and then just comment your favorite part of the episode and we'll read them all and choose 10 winners. And like the better your comment is, you know, the more major fades coming your way. Yeah, you'll stand out. You're going to stand out. Okay, stay rich. Thank you.

47:28Haley: as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com slash work. UKG, HR, pay, and workforce management.