The Autonomous Digital Economy Is Here

29:55Ryan Hanley:But like the idea is, even if you're not a tech business, I mean, this is I'm talking to the audience now, not necessarily you, but like even if you're not a tech business and in some cases, the non-tech businesses by by leveraging some of this technology that's now at your fingertips and has become so readily available, you can see massive improvements and streamlining in places where before they were literally having to write up proposals on sheets of paper on a clipboard. and then they'd have five of them in their truck and then they'd have to remember to bring them in and get them approved.

30:25Ryan Hanley:And like just that amount of time back is what one or two more appointments a day for five guys. Now all of a sudden, you know, if you're closing half of those, you just put five more deals on the board that you couldn't have done before simply because you didn't have the time with a fairly simple AI tool investment. So I look at these things and I'm very AI optimist. There's 100 % AI optimist. I probably spend too much time on LinkedIn in, commenting, yeah, but humans make mistakes too. That's, you know what I mean? Like my little probably sarcastic response that I shouldn't put out there as much as I do.

30:58Ryan Hanley:But like every time someone bangs on AI, I'm like, yeah, but the reason the data is terrible is because humans put it in. You're just mad at the AI because it's reading the terrible data that the humans put in and now can't regurgitate the perfect answer. Like, I feel like we hold some of these technologies, especially early on. And it's probably just adoption curve, as you said, which I think was maybe a fairly logical, but I think something that was really important to be said is that just an adoption curve standpoint, we're still holding the technology to too high of a standard versus what we would assume the humans are.

31:31Ryan Hanley:We're thinking it has to be perfect or it's broke. And that doesn't seem like the right way to think about this. Yeah, but that's great, Ryan. But I just want to, again, highlight my point of, you brought up landscaping. so you think i do think it's worth you know whoever you are listening to this bring it back down to real businesses and real activities and then think it through so just give an example you know if you play golf you know how they used to cut the grass and up until recently and in fact still probably on most golf courses people sit on equipment in the hot sun and they have to go around and around and around the golf course cutting the grass and you know it's polluting uh it's not good for the environment it's expensive and the drivers have to cover up or they get skin cancer and it's it's you know there's a lot of issues today there's plenty of golf courses that have satellite driven robotic lawn grass cutters cutting the grass and not every golf course has implemented that, but many have.

32:46They tend to still do, as you know, the greens and the tees by hand, but the fairways still have this equipment. So that's AI. That's AI-driven. It's satellite and AI-driven, and it's part of what we call the autonomous digital future. those autonomous semi-autonomous robotic grass cutting devices are there already right this is not theoretical and so then as a small business owner you can see that as a threat or an opportunity obviously if you're john deere it's it was a threat to the manually operated glass grass cutting equipment you used to sell. And it was your choice, John Deere, whether you embraced this new world.

33:37Husqvarna did, and so they sell lots of Husqvarna equipment. I don't even know who owns Husqvarna, but did John Deere do it? I don't know. It was a choice, you know, embrace the future or try and avoid embracing it. At the level of the guy that sits on the tractor, I think they've been reallocated. So they're probably still working on the golf course. They're doing something else. Hopefully they're making the greens and teas even better. But some of them may have lost their jobs. That is a real societal issue that we have to think through. Because obviously, if we're reducing human work everywhere, then we have to figure out a lot of issues and concerns, legitimately so.

34:23But I don't think it's bad that the person isn't going to sit in the baking sun and get a lot of skin cancers. That job isn't that great a job, in my opinion. Now, obviously, some people may love cutting grass all day on a tractor, and they would disagree with me. But I think societally, we have to ask, are the jobs that we are eliminating the right jobs for humans to be doing? And it's like the old, and I'll finish here, but it's like the old story of the chimney sweep. It's all like, you know, little boys used to have to go up chimneys to clean the chimney, and they all got black lung, and they all died at very early ages.

35:10and we eliminated coal-fired fireplaces. And that meant all those little boys were out of work and we had to find other things for them to do. And the chimney sweeps were probably very angry about it. But at the end of the day, black lung amongst chimney sweeps went to zero. And I think that was a good thing societally. So it's a challenge. This is not easy stuff. But if you're a small business person, bring it back home. You know, if you have a landscaping business, how do you power up and conversely, what should you stop doing? And maybe there are entire industries you should be, as a small business owner, you should be actively getting out of because they won't be necessary in the future, like chimney sweeping.

35:56Ryan Hanley:Yeah, I think that's a wonderful point. I know we don't know each other that well. We just met here today. But, you know, my work in working with companies and particularly mid and smaller size companies is I teach something called a human optimized model, which is why I'm so incredibly interested in AI. Right. My belief is that in general, humans can do three things better than machines or AI, which is relationship building, solving complex problems and selling things based on trust. I know you can do D to C and that's growing, but, you know, some a lot of transactions were still very trust based.

36:29Ryan Hanley:and you know what I try to to help these business owners understand is that to your point right that guy who was spending eight hours a day on a tractor cutting a lawn well now he can go get his hands in the sprinkler system that's broke and he can spend time on the projects that are detail driven and and very like human expertise driven and take true like breakdown problem solving at the point of failure and spend time on these real actual issues that you need someone to do, right? That guy, like you said, I'm much more in the camp of we're reallocating and redefining what these roles are. I don't see, I think jobs will be lost, but we can't think of them as the humans losing the job.

37:17Ryan Hanley:Just that function is lost. The human is still going to have plenty of places to go where their expertise mechanically or otherwise, I think, still can be used and be can actually use for the things that they probably should have been doing more of to begin with, where the real labor and real work is versus just sitting on a tractor and driving in straight lines for eight hours a day. So I think that's a really wonderful point. I'd like to transition a little bit to the investment piece. And I'm just interested, maybe start as broad as you want. But this seems like an incredibly dynamic time to be investing in companies in particular.

37:54Ryan Hanley:And before we went live, you had talked about this explosion of value in the economy. And we just saw SpaceX and, you know, Elon becoming a trillionaire and everything. Like, one, maybe, is this a fairly unique and interesting time in general? Like, is that a proper characterization? And then, you know, regardless if it is or it isn't, you know, where are you starting to look? I mean, I know you have your thesis, but like, what's really got your attention? Where do you see coming down the pipe that's got you tuned up? All right. So we started talking, trying to help the audience understand some inevitable things about the future, the direction we're heading.

38:38We talked about things like what's tokenization and how do we digitalize value. we then went down a slightly different path which is an important path which is you know how what's the role of government how does government embrace innovation and then societally what are some of the pros and cons and some of the issues of which there are many i think it is a good idea to bring it back to sort of investing and wealth creation and value creation so i'm glad you just did that and we're investors. So ultimately, the way we think about this, Ryan, and I'm really now first going to answer conceptually and then I'll answer empirically.

39:23You know, conceptually, what we are doing as investors, as venture investors, because we're venture investors, is we're trying to get a view, a 10-year view, of some inevitable changes to the economic landscape that will unlock a lot of wealth creation, a lot of value. And we typically are thinking about a 10-year time frame as VCs. Some things happen quicker, some things take longer, but 10 years is sort of about right. And once we have clarity on some things that we're absolutely sure are going to be happening, then the next thing is you look up today and you try and figure out what's most broken, where a lot of value is going to start shifting around.

40:09You know, it's going to go from the old to the new. And then once you have clarity on those two things, then you look for great entrepreneurs who are really passionate and understand how they can stand up a new business or a new opportunity, a new project that is going to move us forward. Because they're going to have enormous tailwinds behind them and they're going to be the beneficiaries of all this moving value. Now, it doesn't mean that established businesses can't do everything I just said. I mean, they could do the same thing. The problem is, and it always is true, established businesses have a lot of legacy activities, people, processes, sunk costs that make it very hard for them to change.

40:58And so it tends to be true that if you can see something inevitable about the future, and if it's going to dramatically impact a huge profit pool or source of value of today, most of the shift, most of the value is going to be captured by disruptive new players. And that's what we invest in. All right. So that's sort of the way to think about it. Now, obviously, if you're an entrepreneur, you're loving what I'm saying because you want to be the one that gets backed and builds the new business. Obviously, if you're a small business owner, this is a challenge because you've got to make choices like, should I move?

41:39And if so, when? And conversely, I can't abandon what I am already doing and I don't have a lot of capabilities and resources left over to do new things. So it's very challenging for established businesses and in particular for established small businesses. All right. So that's the concept. So practically speaking, where are we investing today? Well, I think we've already covered it. we're investing heavily in what we call AI in the agentic revolution, the upgrading of global decision-making and the digitalization and computerization of work and embedded in their intelligence. This is just huge.

42:28It's not new. It's 40, 50 years in the making, but its time has come and we're digitalizing intelligence and work as we speak so the companies that are at the leading edge of that are very very i think investable though their valuations are going sky high incredibly quickly um and maybe too high um the second big thrust for us is we've already talked about is the digitalization of global financial rails and infrastructure and uh and And it's necessary both so that the traditional financial companies, banks, payment companies, asset managers, insurance companies, trading exchanges and so on can upgrade themselves.

43:13But it's also opening up the opportunity for new to the world players, many of which were investors in with names like Coinbase and Kraken and Uphold and Anchorage and Robinhood and so on to grow and scale very quickly. So that's the second big thrust. And then the third that I would talk a little bit about is the continuing evolution and upgrading of internet companies themselves. If you had a name like Revolut, you're not actually a new company. You've been around for a long time. You were an internet-based fintech company. But now you're upgrading yourselves, you're embracing blockchain, you're embracing crypto, you're probably deploying AI tools, and you're also migrating towards this future.

44:05So for us, those are the big three thrusts, AI and the digitalization of intelligence and work. Secondly, digital finance, including blockchain-enabled digital infrastructure. And thirdly, if you will, the upgrading of the internet players. And, you know, it's sort of like InktoMe was destroyed by Google, MySpace was destroyed by Facebook. I don't think we should presume that today's internet companies won't have new competitors, but they'll be autonomous digital players, not only internet players, if you see what I'm saying.

44:47Ryan Hanley:I do. I do. One of my least favorite mental blocks is the idea that the way the world looks today is the way it's going to look tomorrow. And when you find people making decisions based on that thesis, it's very hard to argue with or argue against. It tends to be a very entrenched idea, but seemingly the world never works out that way. We're always, it's always turning and spinning. Just like you said, we could go through a million examples all the way back through the industrial revolution of the company that kicked things off, ends up getting innovated upon, and you have a new player. And then the same thing happens again and again.

45:24Ryan Hanley:And I think it's a really important point just to drill into, which is why I'm spending just this extra second here on it, that we can't take a snapshot of the way the world is today, guys, and believe that this is the way the world is always going to be, right? And I love that you said that you're looking out 10 years. I think that's a wonderful timeline. And, you know, specifically, I'd like to drill into where you see agentic AI and agents in general going, maybe both from just your personal opinion or your company's opinion on the space in general and the technology in general. And then maybe from an investment, putting the investment hat on, you know, are you looking at established companies that are integrating agentic AI and using it as a way to improve operations consumers are already aware of, but maybe in a more efficient way?

46:15Ryan Hanley:Or do you think there's even more opportunity and new functionality in that space? Yes. Fantastic, Ryan. So the answer is all of, but before, you know, the short answer, but before I get there, I mean, many of the tasks that we do today that are part of our economy or the businesses that are listening in, those tasks are complex tasks and the human form factor is not necessarily engineered to be really good at those tasks. And I think you have to start there. In your business, you probably have human beings doing things that they are not actually very good at doing. A great example would be to abstract vast amounts of financial data, crunch it in real time, and come up with financials and accounts and so on.

47:12You know, it's all like our brains are pretty good, but that actually isn't something many of us are really designed for. And in fact, as we all know, the average American child is not very good at mental mathematics. Even if you ask them something simple like what's, you know, eight times 11, which shouldn't be too difficult. um by the time you ask them to you know look at a business in real time and crunch all the data of the pnl for this month and and build a pnl and a balance sheet it's not something most of us can do in our heads and that's and what i just said is obvious right so you know we we instrumented that a long time ago and we created calculated what we created abacuses and then calculators and then visi-calc and lotus one two three and spreadsheets and by now you know most businesses probably have some sort of a you know advanced computing device doing a lot of their books and their financials they may still use accountants to do the the audit and to balance the books and sign off on them Even that, humans are not very good at.

48:28We know that. Accounting firms are paid a lot of money, but they're not very good at what they do, is the truth. It takes them a long time and a lot of cost, etc. So just continue that thought process. What other things do you have human beings doing in your business that we're not actually very well designed to do? And what devices and workarounds do you have in place to help them do those things? So in your warehouse, you have people moving heavy pallets and you have to give them tools to help, right? They need a reach or loading. I don't even know all the names, but they have a bunch of equipment because human beings are not very good at lifting pallets 30 feet up and stacking them in warehouses, right?

49:23So then you sort of say, well, why do you need the human there at all? If the task is to unload a truck, bring out all the pallets, move them around a warehouse, and store them away, the human form factor is not good at any of that. And even the decision of which pallet goes where is really not something humans are very good at. I mean, we can't, with our eyes, scan a barcode. So we need a device for that. And the same with the location in the warehouse. And so you shouldn't be surprised if we're deploying robotics and equipment in warehouses and we're displacing human beings. Because the human form factor isn't ideal for many of the tasks that grew up in the Industrial Revolution.

50:15and in fact many of the jobs we created in the industrial revolution were not really very nice jobs for humans to do right it's sort of we know that we we had them want at some time you know doing manual labor on massive scale in mills and in factories and other things that were really bad for the health of the humans and we we had labor movements and we had to have working condition decisions. And then eventually we got rid of the mills and the people that had to work in them and all got, you know, tissue in their lungs, just like the miners got all the black lung from the gold dust. So, so, so why am I starting here?

50:58Because I think that's the way to think about it. You know, we can get more precise if you wish and talk very specifically as you did about, do I see companies using advanced AI agents to drive top-line growth? Well, of course. You know, it's all like, because are humans very good at trying to identify which of the 400 million Americans are most likely to want to buy the product? No, because we can't get our head around 400 million, let alone build profiles for 400 million people and try and identify the signals that would have us know if these 10 million of the 400 million are the right ones to take this offer.

51:43And it's not a new thought because MBNA and Capital One were trying to figure out how to do better credit card solicitations with database technology and algorithms 40 years ago. um so the the big difference is this number one clearly the llms have made big data analysis and algorithmic decision making and machine learning ready for prime time on a scale we could not have imagined the second is the agents which are basically just software the agents are able to do work better and better, and they're beginning to be better than us at more and more of the work that we do. And I think the third is we're beginning to figure out how to use software combined with hardware to come up with better form factors than the human, to do tasks that humans are not actually very good at anyhow.

52:44And you put all of that together, and and i don't think there are too many functions in any business that are not going to be levered up and improved quicker cheaper easier um and even small businesses can start experimenting that's the last point ryan which is this is not something that requires any more billions of dollars to get started um i remember in the 90s i was always shocked by you know we were beginning to build websites and science and razorfish would show up with a single page and they said we'll build you a website for 40 million dollars and today you can build that website for like nothing you know it's a website for nothing you know that i've been going to my website for a couple hundred bucks on cloud code yeah exactly exactly so so that's what i would want the small business listener to to to reflect upon which is the costs of accessing these tools is coming down really really fast such that a small business person can in fact leverage ai into their business if they're willing to experiment and give it a go that the hard part is actually uh having people to help you do it.

54:06You know, I think, I think if you're the founder or CEO of a small business, you've got the hardest job in the world already. And many of you are struggling to make ends meet every day already. And now someone's going to drop this whole new thing on top of you. And it's, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's hard. And so, you know, Ryan, if that's what you help small business people do, then I think that's really, really a valuable thing. And if I was a small business owner right now, I would not. I think you do have a choice of when to move. So if you're a small business owner, you don't necessarily need to change anything this year.

54:47But I wouldn't wait five years. And for some of you, if you move fast, you'll be a big business, not a small business. So there are good reasons to move quickly. But you have to look at yourself honestly and sort of say, am I up for this? Do I have the capability? Can some of my people need to get on top of this? And do we have the bandwidth and do we have the resources and so on? But the point is, the cost of using an agent in a small business today is very inexpensive. It's no longer$40 million just to build a website.

55:25Ryan Hanley:Yeah. I mean, I've talked to the audience about this before, but one of the things that I highly advocate is even if you're not going to make any changes in your business. And I think you're right. I don't think anyone should rush into this if it's not their nature, right? If it's not your nature, I don't think rushing in is the right way. However, I do highly advocate for people to be playing around, right? At least have a paid chat GPT or a paid Claude or, you know, like when, when these tools, like when, um, four point, Opus 4.5 hit, I built like three apps that I have sent just destroyed, you know, I just deleted them, but I built them to just see like, what's possible?

56:04Ryan Hanley:How does it work? I've heard this term MCP. What is that? Like, like, and then do I even need to know that in my work? Like, you know what I mean? So just, just playing around because there's a new vocabulary that is going to become more and more part of daily discussions. I think regardless of where you are from solopreneur to small business to middle market, all the way up to enterprise. And while I completely and utterly agree that rushing in is not the appropriate move and it isn't like you have to do something today or you're going to go out of business, I do think it is important to start to at least understand the nomenclature, some of the use cases or at least what's possible because when these decisions do become more pressing and you are kind of in a position where you need to make a move one way or the other, I feel like if that's when you start to spin up your knowledge on this stuff, you're going to be so far behind.

56:55Ryan Hanley:And it's almost like you're going to be speaking to someone who is speaking a different language to you. And I think that's where a lot of people got in trouble with the internet in the early days, right? You had these, you know, internet marketers and website builders who would come to you and tell you a website that should have cost a couple grand cost 10 grand. And a lot of small business owners didn't know the difference and they didn't understand because they didn't know what it took and they didn't know the time. And I do think we can learn from the early 2000s and the mid 2000s and the digital and kind of internet revolution that at least it's a good FAFO moment, like play around a little bit, like get in there and at least see what it does, right?

57:35Ryan Hanley:I mean, we need to have this at our fingertips to at least be able to speak the language, even if we're not using it today. I agree with everything you just said. And I, at this point, I want to talk a little bit about mindset. But before I go there, I'm agreeing with your point, which is, you know, we're 40 or 50 years into using the internet and pretty much everyone listening in is actually an expert. You know, you all know how to use, do emails. You all know how to send messages. You all know how to use Spotify. You all use the internet every day across your businesses in many, many ways. You're all experts.

58:12but if i asked any of you to explain the coding of tcpip or html or frame relay and how they work my bet is almost 90 something percent of you probably don't even know those terms or if you've heard them you couldn't actually explain them and that's really important to hang on to you can be an expert at leveraging the internet without actually understanding how it works and so you can be an expert applying digital finance in your business and using stable coins without actually needing to understand what a merkle root is or what a hash rate is in blockchain and the same thing is true in ai you can begin to work with agents without understanding the software that sits underneath an agent and that you're going to leverage and use in your business.

59:08So it comes to mindset. And so here, I'm actually going to steal the concept that our AI partner and my daughter, Tallulah Lamoa, has put into her new book. But I think it's very simple. And I want to spend just one second on it, Ryan. It's very simple. It's a little matrix. On one side is goods v. bads. And on the other side is today v. the future. And now you've got four cells, right? You've got the goods and bads of today and the goods and bads of the future. Most human beings fear that innovation will cost them the goods of today and will open up bads in the future. Okay? And because of that, they live on an axis of fear.

1:00:05They're living fearfully. They are fearing that innovation is going to destroy my business today, and innovation is going to do things in the future that I don't want, like cost me my job. Now, the other axis is very interesting, because the other axis is that innovation might actually solve today's problems, the bads, and it might unlock future goods we can't even imagine yet. And that axis is an optimistic axis. It's actually the innovator's axis.

1:00:46Entrepreneurs operate on that axis. They believe that they can solve the problems of today. and as steve jobs famously said they're crazy enough to believe that they can change the future in a positive direction and that's the axis of innovation and positive change and it's a choice and and the reality is that your brain is engineered to make you fearful of uncertainty and it's a defensive mechanism. We all have it in our brains that if we're not sure about something, we should be fearful. It's called the amygdala, in fact. But the other axis is the axis that opens up opportunity. And so as a small business owner or an entrepreneur, the most important thing right now is to get into that mindset.

1:01:42you know believe this webinar believe that we're going to live in a digital autonomous future whether you want it or not today and that it will unlock a lot of new to the world opportunities we can't even imagine but it will also solve a lot of the businesses you struggle with every day in your business if you're willing to give it a go and if you're an entrepreneur you'll probably spend most of your time using these technologies to build new businesses we can't even imagine. If you're a current small business or, for that matter, large business CEO or board director, you'll probably use these technologies first and foremost to solve the biggest problems in your business.

1:02:29And so, just like I said, you know, black lung in chimney sweeps was the biggest single issue for the little boys of London who had to go up the chimneys. They all die. So solving that problem with innovation was a good thing. It wasn't a bad thing. Well, in your business, I don't know what your biggest pain points are. It could be, we can't find new customers. Or it might be, we forget to revisit the customers who bought in the past to get them to buy again. Or it might be, it just costs too much to run the warehouse with all the people that we have in the warehouse. I don't know what the issues are for you.

1:03:13My bet is the innovations that we're funding and that are here already can actually help you against most of your core business challenges. But it's a mindset issue because if you're going to be fearful, you're not going to get anything positive done. And most of the world, unfortunately, sits in that mindset until they don't have a choice.

1:03:39Ryan Hanley:I think that is a wonderful place to wrap up our conversation because I could not agree with you more. To your warehouse example, one of the things I think is funny about the people who protest losing these warehouse jobs, you know, so coming out of the property casualty insurance space and workers' compensation, warehouse jobs are one of the most frequently injured positions in all of our workforce. I mean, these are people who are constantly injured, oftentimes with issues that last throughout their lives with back related things, knee related, shoulder related. And ultimately, they're taking pain meds and they're on these things for long periods of time because, as you said, this is work that we're not designed to lift these heavy things.

1:04:22Ryan Hanley:So now we have now we have to have a forklift or we have to have a crane and these things fall and people drop. And it's like, OK, I get that that is a job. Right. And in someone, a man or woman makes their money doing that thing. But I think to your point, could that person be real allocated to a position where their their human skills can be used to to higher value and not have them at boxes fall on their head once a year? and they have to be on workers comp for a month. Like, you know, these are some of the places where when I think we, to your point, like when we start thinking optimistically about the future, the world opens up in a way that, you've used the word a couple of times, it's unimaginable.

1:05:06Ryan Hanley:And I just, I couldn't agree with you more. With that being said, I know my audience is going to want to go deeper into your world. Where are the places that they can follow along with what you, your thoughts, your work, and ultimately go deeper into what you do. Yeah, so remembering that we're an investment firm and we are primarily venture investors, that isn't for everyone who's listening in. If you are an investor and you want to learn more about us, you just go to fifthera.com and we share a lot of information. There is information that we share that I think is interesting for everyone. to take a look at.

1:05:49We do newsletters, podcasts, and so on. You can access them through fifthera.com as well. But I would not say by any measure that we are the world's leading thought leaders around how this impacts small businesses. We're backing disruptive, fast-growing AI, digital finance, and blockchain companies. So depending upon who your audience is, we may not be the right people to follow. We have written some books. You can find them on Amazon and on Apple. I think they're good general. There are books about the coming fifth era and what that may look like. You're very welcome to take a look and see if they're good for you.

1:06:38Ryan, if your audience has a lot of small business people, my bet is you're more valuable to them than I am because it's not so much that they need a vision of the future, it's they need help just getting started. And that is a very pragmatic exercise. So I'll stop there. It's not that I don't want people to follow us, take our newsletter, listen to our, buy our books. It's just, we're an investment firm and we're designed for investors. We're not necessarily the best people to hang out with if you're operating a small business and you're trying to figure out how to scale up with these technologies.

1:07:17Ryan Hanley:Well, I appreciate your humility. I will say we have plenty of people that do do a lot of investing in the audience. But I also think if for nothing else, I think an optimistic view on what's coming is just as powerful and a message of optimism and where the world is going is just as powerful as the tactics of getting there. Because if you're to your point in the matrix that you described, if you're living on the fear axis, it doesn't matter what tactics you use. You're going to always be behind the eight ball. You're always going to be finding obstacles where the optimistic view of what's coming.

1:07:54Ryan Hanley:I just don't see a better operating system, right? I don't think scarcity mindset, fearful mindset. I don't think this is the time for that. It's the opposite. So I just appreciate the conversation. I appreciate your time very much. I have enjoyed it and learned a ton and appreciate you. And I know the audience will as well. I wish you nothing but the best. And guys, we'll have links to both the books because I did go through a couple of the books and to the website and stuff. So just scroll down while you're watching on YouTube, listen, wherever you do. Matthew, this has been an absolute phenomenal conversation for me personally.

1:08:30Ryan Hanley:I appreciate your time and thank you so much. Thank you very much, Ron.