Michele Sullivan on Building Accountability Into Giving

0:01Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses, and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, reveal the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they've learned.

0:37Join Mark and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun. Now, let's dive in. Good morning, America. How are you? How are you people in the studio? Good morning, Arlo. Whatever you're doing this morning, wherever you're walking right now, It's my dog. I miss him. He's in Pennsylvania, and I'm in Florida right now. So here we are again in beautiful Florida, another gorgeous day here at Babcock Ranch. We've had a lot of Babcock Ranch-oriented shows, and our guest today is Michelle, somebody I met while walking around one day in Babcock Ranch. Welcome, Michelle. Thank you.

1:15And I've also got Matt Bramson here. It's the 3Ms we have. It's the 3M show. We have Michelle, Mark, and Matt. I think I may have told you, Michelle, that I was going to be Michelle if I was a girl. So I've always liked that name, and I've always liked the Beatles song. So there you go. So anyway, so our topic of the day, and this will make a lot more sense in a few minutes, is looking up. Michelle, you've used that term a lot, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But I want to hear about in the literal sense, but also the figurative sense of what that means to you. Sure. So figuratively, we all want to be positive.

1:53And in life, it's really tough sometimes. And you could say we're kind of in that environment right now a little bit. Just a little bit. A little bit for different reasons. And, you know, even when you're a child, your parents always encourage you to keep trying and keep trying, you know, looking up in terms of what your opportunities are and so forth. and so figuratively for me I look up to everyone my previous job when I before I retired involved philanthropy and so when you focus on those in poverty and their desires and ambitions are the same as all of us they want their children to be educated and healthy and have a good life and when people in the poorest parts of the world can still be looking up in a positive way with their perspective and putting that into their family and their children that's figuratively for me we all want to look up and think positively and really thrive in life so that's great and i'm glad you just went to the figurative sense you have a great storytelling sense and a great sense of drama to not give away the literal part so yes so now let me introduce michelle and you'll understand better michelle is unforgettable and that is true from a young person born with a very rare type of dwarfism who in spite of being looked down upon by others learned to look up to lead with an elevated view of others a philosophy that landed her at the helm of one of the world's most prominent philanthropic organizations which I'll give that away now as the Caterpillar Foundation and with inspiring style she offers a unique perspective and inspiration for individuals and leaders that attest to the fundamental role one's perspective plays in life.

3:41So I just want to add that she's an author and the name of her book is Looking Up. And in addition to that, I mentioned that she was president of the Caterpillar Foundation and director of social innovation there. And I might add that despite her limit, I don't think she looks at them as limitations, but she's had challenges, and we'll talk about that. But despite all that, she travels around the world speaking to all kinds of groups and inspiring many. And I just wanted to say, too, this is not your typical founder. And we talked about this this morning, but her story is so inspirational that I had to have her on.

4:28but in a sense she is because she when she tells you about her career at caterpillar and then rising to lead the caterpillar foundation she's really a creator because she really created something that was impactful but she took it to a whole nother dimension with what she did is that a fair way to put it so so let's start with your story which you describe in your book but obviously an abbreviated version of that in terms of your growing up, in terms of the influence of your parents, in terms of what you went through as a child and how it led you into a career. Yeah, thank you very much. You know, we all have value, and we have to figure that out as you're a child and as you grow up.

5:13And so I was born, you know, many decades ago where being born a little person, they didn't have a lot of promise, you know, in terms of society and so forth. But I was very fortunate to be born to the parents that I was born to, the family, and also this country. Being born in the United States was the best thing, too, because as I've traveled and I see other handicapped people where they're never seen, And I didn't have that. I was thrown out there. My parents wanted me and expected me to participate, gave me the courage, and I had the health care I needed, et cetera, the education I needed.

5:57When you think about the foundation, even with those in poverty that I write a lot about, it's all about the family unit also. It starts with the family. And so for me, that was vitally important in my situation. And so my dad worked at Caterpillar, retired. We're a typical Caterpillar family. My sister worked at Cat. So, of course, you know, through college and after. By the way, you're from Indiana, right? I'm from Illinois. Oh, Illinois. Central Illinois. Illinois. And that's where Caterpillar is located. Right, right. So that was obviously where I wanted to work after graduate school. And, you know, when I look back, I've been retired eight years.

6:33In 30 years, I worked there. When you think about almost 40 years, for them to hire someone like me, four feet tall, a woman that uses crutches, that just doesn't happen. I mean, I would have trouble today, in some instances, being hired, even with my education and credentials. Right. So back there— Even with the moves towards inclusiveness and inclusion and all that. Yeah, that wasn't even a play back then. Right, of course, yeah. And so when you think about it, my parents played a pivotal role in my confidence and my perspective. Well, there are great stories in your book. I just have to say both about your father and your mother.

7:12Oh, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I give all the credit. All the credit. Are they living, by the way? Neither one? Neither one? Yeah, I didn't think so. So we all have value in some way. Well, I'm not going to go help unload a truck or paint a wall. I can give other type of value through leadership and perspective. And, you know, I'm also a geek in terms of technology I love. So we all have value that we can provide in any situation. And that's really important that we talk about that. And when I go out and speak, you know, when you think about, oh, I don't have anything to provide, you know. Not really, you know.

7:51Yeah, and also just to help give people confidence. and also give grace when you need to. If someone you think kind of you went to a store or something and they didn't maybe greet you or treat you right, you have to step back and think, you know, what happened today? You know, I just have to tell you, I think I always have done this naturally because I had my own stuff to deal with like a lot of people did as kids. We all have, haven't we? Right? And I always thought I was doing this, but your book really, I wouldn't say changed my mindset. but reminded me of what my mindset should be all the time because it doesn't matter who you're in front of.

8:29It's cashier or a delivery person or whatever it is that you're dealing with. There's always a story there, and I now look up to people like that because I'm not sure that I consciously did that before, but now it's conscious and you influence me. And that they add value to what you just did that day. Right, absolutely. They helped you check out or whatever it is they did. They have value, and you have to appreciate that. and also let them know. And so as my career progressed, I was on the business side, but my passion has always been not-for-profits. And Caterpillar, of course, is my passion because it's with our family.

9:07And the foundation job rarely came open. It hadn't come open for 20-plus years because once you get in, you don't want to get out. And it came open. And I had about almost eight years left of work, and my boss told me about it. and it's the most requested job when it comes open. And so I knew it was a long shot, no pun intended, but I put in and the CEO picks the person because you're kind of the front of the philanthropic arm of the company and I got the job. And it was profound. It changed me as much as I traveled personally. By the way, I just want to point out, that happened to you several times along the way in Caterpillar.

9:50Oh, yeah. They were very open. I mean, I've been very blessed, you know, and to be quite frank, Caterpillar was a very male-dominated company. That was another amazing aspect of it. And still is. And so they were very open, and you just keep progressing, and as you do your work, people find out, you know, your type of work you do and leadership. And I was given opportunities, and so when it came up. I just want to say real quick, because they were very open, but you were also, you displayed excellence at every level, which is one of the reasons why you kept moving up. I volunteered a lot. I mean, I did everything to show that I could do whatever they wanted me to do.

10:35And so that was my dream job, and I got it. And I felt very blessed, and I ran with it. That was how long ago was that? That was 2011. Right, so 15 years ago. And you held that for how long? Seven and a half years. And I retired at 30 years. We can retire at 30 years. Right. Yeah. So you're still a Caterpillar employee in that role, right? I was. Oh, yeah. You're still an employee in that role. Yeah. So tell us about that. Where you found it, you know, when you got there and what happened over the time, over the seven and a half years? I was only the fifth or sixth person and the first female.

11:13You know, so the person, two people before me held it for 20 years. And over that 20-year period, a foundation was, to be honest, you just kind of wrote local checks, and you did it because you're supposed to do it. And I ran it like a business. By the way, I want, sorry to keep interjecting, but for those that don't know, I didn't know this until I read the book, but that's, I believe, a$3 billion foundation, right? No, not$3 billion. We get a percentage of sales each year. So, you know, I won't say the percentage, but it's significant each year. Caterpillar is incredibly generous. I didn't mean how much they raise each year, but I meant somewhere I thought the foundation has, you know, it's almost like an endowment, like where there's a big amount of money in there today, I think.

12:08The last thing I did before I retired, I created an endowment and I funded it. So now for eight years there's been an endowment, yes. But it's one of the more substantial foundations in the world. It is substantial. Yes, it is. And so treating it like a business, we were kind of like the shark tank. We had three pillars, education, basic human needs, and the environment. So let's take water, for example. there may be a hundred organizations that can provide water to somewhere in the world how do we decide which one you pick so you have to give us what are we going to get for our investment i call it investments and a lot of the not-for-profits didn't couldn't do their impact reports well you know we're going to give a lot of access to water you just need to trust us no no we want to know where the money goes and we want you to show us what the impact is because we want the most for our dollars they have to earn their way i felt we owed that to our employees our customers our dealers who made all this money possible and so once they got the hang of that and it caused angst i'll be honest it was you know that was not how it used to be this there was accountability but you brought that I brought accountability absolutely and I did that on the business side you know I had a P &L and all that so this was very much like that so when you think about it because they now could provide their impact report other people were also asking for the same things had changed there's no such thing as just giving even when I invest I want to know where the dollars go and how do you count your impact?

13:59So now they got other investors because they can say, oh, here's our impact. So it really was a positive idea and they eventually got used to it. And if they didn't, then we couldn't do business. The other piece was... Sounds like you impacted accountability throughout Caterpillar in your different roles. Oh, yeah. Caterpillar is incredibly, like all businesses, accountable in every way. And then also we wanted... But you raised the bar a bit. Oh, we definitely raised the bar in many ways. And it was a hard couple years for some groups, but in a good way. And also we wanted gap accounting, the gap standards, which is national standards, because we were surprised that some of the accounting, it wouldn't fly.

14:49Because we're liable for where those dollars end up. So if those dollars end up some arms dealer, because we invest overseas, it comes directly back to the foundation illegally. So we were very, very strong in the accountability. We have, this is a really good time. We've got to take a quick break. And when we come back, I know Matt has a question for you. Thank you. The Sattel Institute is the leading CEO member organization dedicated to corporate social responsibility. Under the vision and leadership of its founder, entrepreneur and philanthropist Ed Sattel, the Institute brings together CEOs in Philadelphia and other cities to support the nonprofit organizations that do heroic work in our communities.

15:35The Sattel Institute believes that community is every leader's business. SI's members-only meetings and private CEO conferences give members the opportunity to hear from world-class thought leaders on crucial topics like AI, education, corporate philanthropy, and more. In addition, CEO members get the opportunity to share ideas and experience with their peers, like-minded CEOs who believe in the importance of giving back to the community and who understand the benefits companies get from embracing corporate social responsibility. The Sattel Institute charges no dues or fees. In order to join, member companies simply make a long-term commitment to the nonprofit of their choice.

16:13To find out more about membership and why so many leading companies are now part of the Sattel Institute, visit the organization's website at SattelInstitute.org. Sattel, S-A-T-E-L-L, Institute.org. As Ed Sattel says, think we, not just me. We're back on Founders Forum. Matt, you have a question for Michelle. Why don't you take it away? Yeah, I was just struck by what you said about some of the challenges of bringing standards to a situation that maybe hasn't always had the strongest standards and how that can sometimes be not so well received. Tell me a little bit about that. I'm interested. Sure.

16:55You know, when you've been a partner, meaning a not-for-profit, maybe for 10 years before I got there, and then I come in and we want gap accounting, we want impact reports, we want to know where the money's going, what's your administrative costs. One nonprofit had 60 % to admin, meaning only 40 cents on the dollar was going out. Now, the majority didn't have that type, but it wasn't in the direction that we wanted to go at the time. And you do have to change over time because the needs change of the people that you're trying to serve. And so Caterpillar is the same when I'm on the business side.

17:39We have the highest standards as corporations and companies, startups have also. So I applied that to the foundation. We're given X amount of dollars to invest. We owe it to everyone to make the most of that money with the greatest impact. So our standards were really equal to what I was used to in the company in every way. And we expected them to be the same. Matt, you mentioned that offline as that's a gift. That's really a gift to Caterpillar and to the culture and to the partners. Yeah, I mean, I've seen in my career trying to bring standards to companies that were stalled in their progress towards goals like revenue growth.

18:23You come in and you bring standards and expectations and what I call the antibodies of the organization initially attack you until, you know, you get a certain amount of credibility. And then everybody starts to see that actually this is healing the organization. And you know, in today's world, with everybody watching and more with the data out there, they can see the not-for-profits, what's going on, which is a good thing. And not-for-profits have great standards as well. I mean, especially in today's world, they really are up to snuff, most of them. And you can go online and see how the organizations are performing, and I think that's a wonderful thing.

19:03And they get more grants because of that. And, of course, they're the most passionate people you've ever met. I mean, they're doing the work. You know, our group didn't do the work. And we partnered with them because they're the best. They're helping fund the work. Right. They're the best. And, you know, they're tremendous people. My hat goes off to all the not-for-profits. And you talk about value add. That's a not-for-profit. Michelle, I want to ask you, you were president of Caterpillar Foundation, but you're also director of social innovation. Right. So tell the audience the difference and what you did on that side of your job.

19:41Sure. A separate job, really. Those are really two pots of money. When the money goes into the foundation, the company can't benefit sales-wise or anything like that. It's a totally separate arm. The director of corporate social innovation is corporate money that does not have so many ties where you can benefit or invest in a different way. And so those were two different hats I wore during my time. And that was the first time the company really did that as well. So I'll use a word we used when we did Matt's show earlier today, which is it's like a culture enhancer, right? Yes. Right? Yes. Yes.

20:22And you have to adapt. And there's so many different situations in the world today where number one is to do good, to provide value. and work with partners that can do that with our name. You know, Caterpillar carries a very strong name worldwide with our brand, and we don't want anything at all to ever tarnish that. Michelle, this show is about the creators, the founders, creators, and their struggles that they've had, and also the strengths that they've built as a result of overcoming those challenges. You talk about this very well in your book. But can you just summarize? It's a lot. You've had a lot of physical challenges.

21:07And being a woman in the corporate world, you've had other types of challenges. Maybe you could just summarize in a couple sentences, hard to do, the kind of challenges you've had and what good has come out of those because you're very eloquent about that in the book. You know, you can see my physical challenges, obviously. But there's a lot of people who have challenges you can't see. and I write extensively in the book, whether it's mental challenges, financial, any type of challenge. So mine's kind of out there. Not my only challenge, but, you know, it's out there. And, you know, I do, I think I was born, you know, with the gift of gab because I have to make people feel comfortable being four feet tall.

21:50I have to start the conversation. And so I have to work to make that happen. And then once people start to get to know you, the greatest compliment at work I ever got was somebody said, you know, Michelle, I forget your little. I don't even see that. And, you know, that's really good. But also we all have to, you know, work is tough today. You know, it's so so many things can happen in today's world. And, you know, I had a great career. I worked for a company that was very open. I worked for IBM in graduate school and I got an internship there. so I've been very blessed I think it's a combination of my education and I worked a lot you know in high school and in college so I think I developed skills to communicate in that and I think that helped and I've had great mentors but every day you never knew what was going to happen or who you were going to run into and I can always tell you know in the foundation job when I would show up and they had no idea and it's a shock at first when I come walking in, you know, Caterpillar, big yellow, and I'm the smallest employee.

22:59So, you know, it can be funny sometimes too, but, you know, I worked with people around the world. I mean, I've been with, you know, very significant leaders that I learned from and I get opportunities to work with them still. I just mentioned your book too, I remember. I know Bono, you've gotten to know Bono. Sure, we're on a board together. And President Obama, you've had. You know, Caterpillar, that was Caterpillar. We invested in a program in Obama. It was a global program, and he wanted to expand it. He invited three companies. Caterpillar was one. And we were in the Oval Office with him talking about it for 45 minutes.

23:38I mean, it was surreal. Yeah. You know, I'm thinking, how did I get from Washington, Illinois, to the Oval Office? How did that happen? Washington to Washington. Yeah, how does that happen? Yeah. And it was because of the Caterpillar brand. It was because of our investment. And I just happened to be in the seat. But I could talk to it, and I could tell you why we should expand it. And that's what he was interested in. So I want to point out, you're, quote, retired. But I know firsthand that you're a very busy woman. I am. So what are you doing these days? And let's talk about your vision for the next year, because I know you have one.

24:14I do still work with some not-for-profits and also some companies, you know, who are trying to kind of do what we did. And also my passions are still girls and women. I do a little bit in that area as well. I'm very much interested in the girls and women issue, especially today, as I think we're having some challenges. And when I speak, I talk about that, that if half your population is suppressed, that you're not going to succeed like you should. And that's around the world. It's unbelievable that that could even occur, right? Yeah, but, you know, if you look really closely at what's going on, and I'm not getting political.

24:51I'm just saying we want to maintain the opportunities that we need to succeed and have the next generation succeed as well. And so, and I encourage the girls and others to, you know, follow your passion and your purpose. I think it's important. Could you help us get a female president of the United States? Because I think we're long overdue. I'm serious. I think about this a lot. You know, New Zealand does and other countries, and they're doing great. And so hopefully one day we will be ready. You know, we've got to have a really strong, and I think they're out there. I absolutely think we have people that can do that.

25:30And so, but that's a passion of mine. And then those in poverty are a passion of mine. We have a lot of food insecurity in the United States today. and we need to help a lot with that and really make sure that the funding stays. I believe in a hand up, but there are times when people need a handout for food and things like that. The foundation was much more involved in hand up and education is one of those hands up. So I'm interested in that. And then my speaking when I do different things. I've got to do some fun speaking things as well. How many speaking engagements do you do in a year? you know it's not how many I want to make sure I work with the group that I feel that I can make an impact with so I'm picky about them and I don't travel as easily as I used to so if I can do three or four that's really good yeah and I do a lot of podcasts and book clubs and that you know zoom so that that helps well I have one last question for you you've done a lot and you you have a book which I think maybe answers the question in itself.

26:41But what are your thoughts about your legacy? What would you like to leave behind? That, you know, we tried to show that everybody has value and that we all have a purpose. And I always felt that, even as a teenager when I worked in not-for-profits, I always felt that we were supposed to leave this planet in a better place than when we came. And really, that's what I hope. And we're having some challenges with that right now. So your message and your thoughts are very important towards all that. Are you a reader? Do you read? A little bit. I don't read. I don't necessarily hold a book, but I read them online.

27:15Yeah. What's your anything you're reading now online or anything you? I'm reading more, to be honest, about research in the in the spaces that I'm interested in. Makes sense. And things and legislation that may be coming that can be helpful or harmful to my passions. Makes sense. Yeah. Michelle, as always, time flies on the show when we're having fun, which we are. Yeah, thank you. And it's been such a pleasure to have you here. Matt, thanks for joining us. Thank you. And thank you all for listening. And we'll talk to you again next week on Founders Forum.

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