From $1,000 to $300M: The Wild Story of How Dan Novaes Raised $60M Without a Single VC | Ep 274 with Dan Novaes Founder of Mode Mobile

0:04Dan always great to one have another Dan on the show and I appreciate that we share one common thing that we share is the name. I don't share the success that you've had. It's incredible. Like Mode Mobile, you and I have been talking for like many months, which is amazing. And I've been following along and watching even before that, because crowdfunding, I've always been fascinated with even how crowdfunding works. And you've built a company now valued over 300 million. going back to when you were 15 years old with a thousand dollars did you ever think this would be where you'd be right now yeah if you ask my 15 year old son self probably would have been like why didn't you do this by the time you were 18 you know but um no i think like it's been an amazing journey and it's not as you do it you notice like how hard these things are you know it seems really easy uh when you're a kid and anything is possible but then when you actually go and do it and then learn that scaling is way different than just like, I would say, you know, hustling and like kind of your one to one entrepreneurial stuff, like scaling is really, really difficult.

1:16And so, yeah, I mean, we've been super excited and blessed, I think, over the last few years to, you know, kind of get to where we are now. And it hasn't been without the trials and tribulations for sure. So what have some of those been since you've been scaling? what is something that you didn't expect to happen that you just boom hit the wall like you said entrepreneurship is so damn hard for many people yeah i mean i think that um that zero to one is really difficult um and i think that there's like there's a really interesting formula that happens it's kind of like um sometimes you do something and it just hits like you know it comes out.

1:57And I've, I've probably had that happen two or three times in my life where it just hits in a way that you just can't explain. It's, it's just like you hit product market fit. And, um, there's been times where that could be sustainable long time. Other times like it might be a fad, it might be a bright point in time, like, you know, uh, and, and, and you want to continue growing that. but I think the times that you know really teach you as an entrepreneur the times where it's like you know you get to a certain level maybe you had that initial product market fit and then once you hit like say a million dollars or you hit you know 30 people things change like your way the way that you are as an entrepreneur needs to change and if you don't adapt typically it'll fade away or you'll stagnate and because the industry is constantly changing and you have to be really versatile and be able to pivot.

2:52So for us in particular, I'll give you an example of that, you know, like where I was like, man, entrepreneurship's hard, even after you see great success is like, you know, for mode in 2019, we came with the concept of mode after so many different pivots, to be honest with you. And I thought I was like, actually very sick of pivoting. And we had these all these like little mini successes along the way. And we kind of had this app studio model. And, you know, I really just wanted to work on something that was sustainable in terms of can be very large scale, have a big impact. And then we built this entire product, spent like a year and a half on it, and like, no one was using it.

3:28And then I was like, wow, what a waste of my time, you know what I mean? But then we had this like one cohort of people that was using it. And so we learned about them. And turns out they were like budget conscious users that didn't want to pay for music streaming. And so we eventually focused in on that. We're like well what if we paid you for that and then they were like really interested so we put like just a a fake paywall that was or not a paywall but like a sign up that was like hey we're gonna launch this like if you're interested we had like 250 000 people sign up so that was like an example of like product market fit that someone wants that but then we were like trying to actually make money off that and it was so hard because the music streaming happens in the background and we have to make money and like where do you pull the money from like it's it's it's very difficult.

4:09And then that ultimately led to us then moving into things like gaming and news and all these other things that people do on the phone. And that started to work really well, especially during the COVID lockdowns where people are at home. And we had that COVID growth. Some businesses shattered during COVID. Digital businesses thrived. And then it was a low interest rate environment. We had advertisers literally handing us money hand over fist. And it was great times. And in 2022, the very beginning of 2022, it seemed like the world was unstoppable for tech companies. Everyone's going public. Valuations are extremely inflated.

4:49Zero rate interest environment. And all the while, Mode had seen this crazy growth from effectively$100 ,000 in revenue in 2019 or so, just under, to well over$25 million in 24 months. And you grow and you scale and you hire a bunch of people. And then the bottom fell, like all of these advertisers, the FTXs and Voyagers, which Voyager was our biggest client at the time. And all these like fintechs, you know, capitulated, right? And then suddenly, you're basically in a very difficult situation, because now we're not getting paid for advertising that we thought was coming in, we have 100 people on our payroll.

5:27and that almost killed the business because essentially, you would need to then make very fast decisions. And ultimately that led to us building a much stronger company, but it was a year or two of pain that we had to basically have a lot more discipline on how we ran the business. Like how long are we willing to wait for payback periods? And ultimately is what got us into crowdfunding, which you had talked about here, which has been extremely successful for us. And so I think like a lesson, you know, to just go back to answering your question, like a lesson of entrepreneurship is even if you hit great success, like without question, headwinds will surely come your way.

6:08And then those headwinds will seem so drastic, especially when the more you scale. And then for us, I think those difficult times actually created some of the best things that I'm most excited about now. Because if you asked me in 2022, I felt like I was like, dude, like, why is this happening to me? you know 2022 23 was like a really difficult time and i thought like you know i was like no like this might kill the company and then you know it was like sheer will and then pivoting and then you know being able to kind of get to the next stage and eventually you know it unlocked this completely different world to us um and a lot of things that are going well in our business now or because of that discipline or because of that like way of thinking um and now i feel like the company's in like the strongest position it's ever been.

6:54And we're seeing that crazy growth again, you know? And so I think that that's just the story of it. You know, you kind of have to have the mindset for it, but you're not going to lie. Like there was like two or three months of darkness there for sure that, you know, I had to get through, you know, I read a lot of gratitude books, you know, during that time and kind of developed a lot of like more mindfulness practice of kind of how to think about things, which in itself like allows you to grow. And that was helpful. Yeah. It's amazing how you could be flying high and then boom, it's like somebody just smacks you in the face fall the your ground just falls off from underneath you and you're just like how did I go from being you know top of the world to being like bottom of the bottom and that's like business and entrepreneurship that's like the definition right and then you go back up and it's fascinating that you're saying during those times though you learn I think I've been there where I focused a lot of my business on one thing but that also stopped me from doing other things I should have been doing because I was comfortable with the revenue I was making.

7:53And when that revenue stopped, I realized, oh crap, I should have actually been diversifying, doing other things. But I want to go back to the crowdfunding. I remember maybe 10 some odd years ago, crowdfunding was like the thing. I remember it was like the thing, like everyone's going on Republic and all these sites. I feel like it kind of like ebbs and flows. But you, I mean, over$60 million raised is insane. I don't even know anyone that's raised like maybe more than$2 million. So what was that like, the journey of getting here and the fact that it's not coming from like two or three, four investors?

8:29You're talking about what could be thousands of people. Yeah. I mean, to me, yeah, we have over 57 ,000 shareholders in our business um so quite significant yeah and i i like you know we um the way to think about it for us i think there's two types of crowdfunding companies there's like the kind of startup like super startups like a really small seed stage you know they're going to raise a couple hundred k or a million bucks two million bucks and then there's like kind of what i was called like moonshot businesses and moonshot businesses tend to be able to actually raise at really high like a really high amount of capital.

9:05It's very few companies. We're talking about less than maybe 10 a year that can kind of like new ones at least. And then there's a growing pool of maybe like 20 or 30 issuers that can do that. And typically, it's like these very big ideas or companies that have just like really passionate followings. So an example is like Newsmax, like, you know, really big audience that really loves what they do in terms of conservative news and whatnot. And if you're conservative, like you want to invest in Newsmax. And then they IPO'd, right? They sold out$75 million in five days. So with the exception of Newsmax, this year, Moat is one of the biggest crowdfunders in America, right?

9:44Because we sold out our$75 million raise, and that's inclusive of some bonus shares that we did. But I think that anytime that you're able to tap into the retail audience and see, hey, do people believe in what you believe? And if you're a good marketer, you can align value. And I think the best public companies are the ones that have great financials and then also have that kind of like, you know, not necessarily like a cult in a bad way, but like a cult-like following, right? And ambassadorship. And so I had examples of that in like that are crowdfunding companies is like Tesla or like Elon Musk is very polarizing, but the guy has a crazy following.

10:21You even see other companies like, you know, like, like Berkshire Hathaway, like Warren Buffett is one of the greatest investors of all time, but he literally sells out a stadium, you He's not a musician. People go to Omaha to go to his conference. You even have funnier examples like GameStop. That company literally was the meme central. And again, that goes back to having a follower base. And so anytime people believe in your mission, and then you can have good financials behind it, I think it's a great candidate for crowdfunding. But yeah, you have to be willing to be a marketer and kind of like think about like how you're going to talk to your audience, like your investor updates.

11:02Like we do webinars beyond, you know, before we got on the call here, like, you know, we have amazing guests that come on ours, you know, like for our audience, you know, like Steve Wozniak, the founder of Apple. We give like earnings calls, like even though we're not a publicly traded company yet, we do earnings calls for our investor base and we'll have five or 10 ,000 people log into this stuff and we'll raise several millions of dollars from those, you know, updates. And so you have to be like thinking in that way. And for us, I look at it as like kind of like the training wheels of being like a publicly traded company, because that's my ultimate goal is to kind of get to that point.

11:38And this is like me playing like in the, you know, the like my college ball, you know what I mean? Before I, you know, we go into that FL, you know, so that's kind of like how, you know, we think about and have approached it. Oh, I'm sure one day you will IPO. I mean, no doubt about that. I see that you're a part of YPO. And how has organizations like YPO, I've been involved with EO for a long time. How have you seen these organizations? And by the way, everyone I know in YPO is like, they have the best parties, like they're incredible parties and hanging out. So one day that's my goal. Yeah. It's the one day get to YPO.

12:16But how has that impacted you? Yeah. I mean, I, I've always been really, um, I've always made like the investment to either be a part of masterminds or uh certain groups even when I sometimes didn't even have the capital to do it like when it was like a stretch um and I would always kind of look at it as like this might not work out but you know I had an example one time where um you know I spent twenty thousand dollars in a donation and maybe I think my entire like net worth of time was like maybe a hundred so I mean significant um but I knew that people that were going to that were all like ultra high net worth, like angel investors.

12:55And it was going to be a really small group. And I was going to be the youngest guy there. So I was like, okay, maybe it'll turn into like this like thing where I'll be able to find some mentors and maybe some people invest. And I ended up raising like 300k from that trip. And so it was a great ROI, you know what I mean? In that sense, but was it a risk? I didn't know I was going to do that. But nonetheless, I think like, you know, your proximity is power. And at the end of the day, if you find other entrepreneurs, other people that have that same kind of mindset, it's going to rub off on you and you're ultimately going to learn a lot.

13:25And I think the things like specifically with YPO organizations like that is, you know, you're finding a space of other founders and other business owners that are dealing with a lot of the same stuff that you are. Like, I can't always go just to, you know, my friends or other people that aren't in the same position as me, that same type of like, you know, Hey, have you dealt with, you know, adding two independent board members to your board? Have you dealt with, like, what do you think about your liquidity or like, how did I get screwed by, you know, like an investor of some, and some mechanic.

13:57So I think like, there's all these things that those networks give you. But ultimately it also unlocks a bunch of accents because typically these are people that are well-to-do and, you know, think in the same way as you. And that'll open up doors in many places in other parts of your life. That could be in leisure parts of your life. That could be opened up in capital parts of your life. That could be how to get a lower interest rate on your mortgage. It could be anything like that. And so for me, it's been an extremely valuable organization. And I have a lot of friends in EO, and I think EO is also an excellent organization for any entrepreneur that's doing, I believe, them for a million dollars a year is their criteria.

14:37But if you can get into YPO, I definitely would recommend joining your record chapter and you're going to meet a lot of great people. So my final question for you is in 60 seconds or less, what is one lesson learning that you've had in business? It could be have an attorney for this or it could be make sure that you, like you said, have a mentor that can explain to you X, Y, Z? Is there any one lesson that you've learned that's really quick, simple? Really quick and simple. Yeah, I think, well, I think I gave one. So I'll get another one. That was just, that's something that I've like put into my schedule.

15:18I think when you're running your business, you're always working in the business, or most people work in the business, as opposed to working like on the business. And typically, that involves like kind of operational nonsense that you're kind of doing and they don't leave enough time for like thinking like just strategic level thinking it sounds so simple like it really does but like um i just see people just kind of like automate on automation mode it's almost like an ai like an agent it's like not really thinking um very intelligently and um for me like i have found that there's like two times where i do a lot of deep thinking um but i have to set them out in my schedule so now i float every week for example so i float in a float tank and it's just complete darkness and silence and i could really think like very deeply um at a different level because all my other senses are being shut down and then i do a lot like when i run or go on walks and i do a lot of those every given day and those have literally unlocked tens of millions of dollars worth of ideas worth of business opportunities worth of problem solving i honestly cannot um you know tell you the ROI that I've gotten from just having this something so simple uh just put into my calendar you're right we're not thinking we're reacting that's the problem right we're reacting to everything around us this happens that happens we're always caught in the reaction mode versus the stopping it reminds me of the e-myth book that old book it's like a baker goes into it to bake but realizes she has to do 50 other things and then is miserable and can't really focus on the business because she's doing so many different things and tasks and learning.

16:59But you're right. We're too reactionary without really thinking. But I'm glad you brought that up. I want to try floating one day. That is definitely on my list to try. I've heard great things about floating. But Dan, if people want to get in touch with you, how can they do so? Yeah. I mean, they could reach out to me. My email is danatmodemobile.com or, you know, by me on LinkedIn or Twitter via some score AI. Dan at Mode Mobile. But Mode Mobile, I've been following along for many, many years. I've actually been in the wireless industry, mobile industry, since 2002. And so when I saw Mode Mobile back when you first started, I'm like, wow, this is a very, very unique and fascinating in the mobile space.

17:41And I'm glad that you've had the success we've had. Can't wait. When you ring that bell, I want to go and visit you. when you ring that bell so I can help cheer you on. But Dan, this has been a great conversation. And thanks for joining us today on Founder's Story. Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate it.