Ed Harris: Great Food Won’t Save Your Business

0:00I'm going to ask you a question that might sting a bit. How many holiday parties do you have booked for the month of December? Not like how many do you expect? It's how many are on the books right now with the deposits collected and the contracts signed. And for many of you, I worry that the answer is not enough. And here's why that matters. I think that the companies that are going to throw those parties are picking their venues right now. This is a sweet spot between August and September. And by the time you start thinking about December, the decision's already been made. You're not losing those parties in November.

0:34You're going to lose them this month. And that's why I built the Private Events Engine. It's a simple three-part system that leverages AI to do most of the work for you. And this month in the Marketing Masterclass, I'm going to walk you through it. It's going to show you how to package events, how to get in front of the people that are booking them, and how to close them without discounting. And you get the whole thing for free. So show up to this month's Marketing Masterclass. Go to restaurantbusinessschool.com today to sign up. Now here we go. It's unfortunate that a lot of people go into business and they think we just have to have good food.

1:14Like, no, that's a very small fraction of it because I know tons of restaurants with horrible food, but they're always busy. What's the difference? The difference is they know how to market themselves. They know how to get their names out there. Welcome to Full Calm, a show offering insight into the hospitality industry, featuring restaurateurs, thought leaders, and innovators, served up on the house.

1:42What if the reason nobody is walking through your door has nothing to do with what's on the plate? Ed Harris won Chopped, then left the kitchen entirely to raise his kids and build a business from home. Today, he consults for hotel groups, develops spice lines for other chefs, and co-founded Flavor Bomb with Angelo Sosa. In today's conversation, we get into why good food is a small fraction of why restaurants survive, how he killed product after product without ever calling it failure, and why he measures every opportunity in time before he measures it in money. If you're waiting to be discovered because the work is great, this one's gonna hurt a little.

2:28That path was me working in the restaurant business. And the last place I actually worked was Budokan in New York City. So my schedule was getting at about 12, 1 o 'clock in the afternoon and didn't leave until 2 o 'clock, 3 o 'clock in the morning, depending on the day. So starting a family, I was like, I can't not be there. You know, I kind of want to focus on being a dad. So that led me into thinking, what could I do that will keep me in the business, but give me the ability to still not be in it with that kind of crazy hours behind it. So consulting was something I always found fun. One of the chefs that I actually worked with at Budokan was a consulting chef.

3:11And I just saw him coming in and that was the dream job. He would come in at 10, 11 and he would be gone at three, four o 'clock in the afternoon. I was like, getting paid big bucks. That is what I want to do. And it's funny enough, fast forward almost 15 years, we end up consulting together on about four or five projects. So yeah, here we are. Let me ask you a question about that. So I was a restaurateur myself. I own multiple concepts across multiple tiers of dining in Los Angeles. And like, I wanted to be a thought leader. I felt like I had a song to sing. I felt like I had a unique perspective on the industry.

3:51And I knew that like, eventually I was going to share it with the world. And I was around 40 years old. And I was like, oh, you know, I'd love to get into coaching and consulting and media. I was going to do all of these things. And I didn't know when. I had a young child myself. At the time that all of this is going on, two big things happened. I had a daughter that had just turned one. It was about one and a half at the time. And there was a global pandemic. It's one thing when you lose your job or your career, but when you lose your entire industry kind of overnight, like that was the big pause for me.

4:26And my thought wasn't like, this is the opportunity for me to step into greatness. It was really, fuck it. We might all die. I might as well try this. And my 10 year plan became a 10 minute plan. But I share that because without the global pandemic, my plan was more restaurants and what I do today and have done for the last six years. I was just going to do more of that. And I think momentum is a really powerful thing, positive and negative. So like when you're a chef, right, you think, well, I'll just cook more or I'll cook at a different place or open another place and I'll cook at that place.

5:03But this is a complete departure. And so I've got to believe that either your parents did something right or you just have a really unique worldview. But, you know, to consult, to teach, that requires an extraordinary level of confidence. Like, oh, I could go tell people what the fuck is up, even though I'm working in this place, right? Where like someone else is doing that because I can't do it because I don't know. So walk me through that thought process that took you from, I can be on the line, like I can run a line in a place that I don't even work. Yeah. So I think for me, I always had this innate ability to just kind of share my knowledge and just kind of coach because it was something I did throughout the restaurants that I worked in.

5:48So I was always the person that would be sent people to train them on how to do X, Y, Z. And I just thought that what better way I would be able to turn this into something that can pay me than to just consult on a project where I always got people coming up to me asking, hey, you know, how do I do this recipe? Can you help me with this menu? So I was like, I might as well turn that into a business where I and just doing that constantly versus stuck in a kitchen for 14, 16, 18 hours. You know what I mean? I do. I just, you know, where do you start? I think everybody listening is like, I'll have what he's having.

6:28My process was nonlinear. I started the show. The show grew an audience. People asked for help. I learned how to help. And then that's what it looked like for me. But you went from like A to Z pretty quick. So you decided you were going to do this thing, right? And I'm assuming you weren't sitting on hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to ease the transition. So what was your first step? So the good thing was that my wife and I both decided at the same time that we were going to stop doing our regular job and basically start our own businesses. so her and I decided to start a hair business e-commerce completely from A to Z and that was kind of the cushioning that allowed me to really carve out and create this new consulting firm that I do now where I was able to kind of just product develop because like you said there's different tiers right consulting is one of those things that it's word of mouth for the most part So if you don't know people, you're not getting a job, you're not getting business, right?

7:37So being able to network and create those products was something that kind of put me in those places because now it's more along the lines of, well, I want to launch this product or I want to change my menu. I want to create systems. Can you help me? Right? So being able to have that cushioning of the e-commerce business and then being able to just LinkedIn heavy, creating content that is letting people know that, hey, this is what I'm doing. I'm here if you need help. That's kind of how that whole thing kind of transitioned. But in the beginning, it was definitely me trying to figure out besides the people that already helped, how do I make this into a consistent business where I'm getting paid on a more consistent way versus me looking for money?

8:21and how did that evolve over time? So I focused on marketing, right? But when I started, it was marketing and profitability and this and that. But then I realized I don't care about any of that. All I care about is making more money. Everyone else wants to help you save money. I want to help you make more money. No one else really wants to do that because it's fucking hard, Ed. So that can be my lane. And it's something I'm good at. But I found that out through years of trial and error. When I go back and I listen to the first podcast that I ever guested on, I didn't know fucking anything about anything.

8:52Like I couldn't really clearly articulate my thoughts. I said things that were like blatantly untrue because I hadn't really thought about how I was successful. And I hear it on interviews on the show that I interview someone and I'm like, how are you so successful? And they're like, well, you know, if you just work hard and you've got great food and consistent beverage and consistent service, that's not it. That's not it. Like you don't even know how you're successful. And that's it. But they don't know because like they had all of those other elements because those things weren't messed up in their business.

9:25They just took for granted that it must be these other abstract things. And so how did you niche down? How did you niche down into product development? Was it your interest? Were your interests slide? Were your talents slide? So I think cooking, you know, one of the things I really loved to do was just create spices and blends, right? So it was very easy for me to create these different blends. And it got to the point where I would do it and, you know, I would make things and people like, hey, can I get some of that? You know how that goes. So I was like, what would it actually cost for me to create a line of seasonings for myself that I can sell?

10:02So I don't have to, you know, this is something I can do e-commerce as well. Because by then my e-commerce game was like really good so I can you know do a website products fulfillment the whole works so once I was able to create the first line of blends which was like 10 I think that was one of the ways I was able to just kind of niche down because now I can literally help you from start to finish conception inception like literally whatever the blend is create the mix the recipe labeling packaging, get it to fulfillment. So you just have to market your product and everything else is handled for you.

10:40So once I was able to do that for myself, I was like, well, why can I help other people do that too? Because it's basically easy. So being able to do that, I was able to create blends for Hyatt, for the Marriott, working on a project with St. Regis right now. And then just individual owners, mom and pop stores, whatever you want to call it. But that was one of the things that for me was just an easy transition because I already did it for myself, even creating a waffle and pancake mix, which was really bad in the beginning because it was one of the first projects I started on. So of course the company decided to put their information on the packaging after it was all said and done.

11:21So now I'm advertising for this company when it should just be my company that I'm advertising for. So, you know, lesson learned. But product development was what got me to that place. Well, in reps, right? You tried many different things. I want to go back to the t-shirts. So you sold t-shirts to foodies and chefs. And I think that one of the things that you learn after many entrepreneurial ventures is some have a lifespan. Some serve a purpose in your life to take you from this to the next thing. So give people context on that and talk about the evolution and the de-evolution of that thing as well.

11:59Gotcha. So I was in New York when I decided to launch this t-shirt line. I was like, you know, it's all about chefs. I think chefs are going to dig it. I knew a bunch of chefs from Food Network, all these different line cooks, blah, blah, blah in New York City. So I did a launch party. We had the t-shirts. A bunch of people wore them. I even did custom chef jackets. It started off really good. And then for whatever reason, no one wanted to buy t-shirts. It just, I was like, okay, what do I do? So I literally scrapped it because sometimes, like you said, it's trial and error. You'll think it's a good idea.

12:32You do it and then come to find out people don't want this particular thing from you. So do you just keep doing it because of pride, ego? No. So I dropped it as quickly as I started and I pivoted to the next thing. We did so many different things besides the t-shirts. We did the custom jackets. We even did websites for custom aprons. You name it. But consulting ultimately is what we fell back on. And that's been the saving grace besides the selling of the products right now and the cookbooks, etc. So I want to talk about that because there's probably a small percentage of people that would hear that and be like, Ed's a quitter.

13:12Ed tried a thing and then it didn't work. And so he quit. But you need to grow a pair and not quit. You need to push on this thing till it works. And I say that because like, I'm sure you know a shit ton of independent restauranteurs. I do too. And some of them are struggling with awareness. Some of them are struggling with product market fit. They are selling baloney to vegan communities. And that's an issue. And like, not that they need to quit and shut it down, but they need to quit doing what they're doing and they need to try something else. And that's hard, right? Like that's so hard to do because the industry compels you for years to keep going in the singular direction.

13:52Keep doing this and eventually it'll work. It's this bias towards success. Yeah, it's a big mistake. And then, you know, there's the people that are just stuck in their ways. You know, it's like, oh, well, I've did this for 20 years and, you know, this is how we're going to do it. No, like people evolve things, evolve themes, evolve people's tastes evolve. So you can't expect to keep winning by doing the same thing. Apple has to change what they do. Microsoft. When the cheese keeps moving, you have a marketer's brain. And I love that about you. It's one of the reasons I was excited to talk to you.

14:23But it's like, you know, it's I've got this client. They've got a juice business. Right. And like fresh pressed juice is not hot fire right now. Right. It is high carbohydrate, low protein in a world of high protein, low carbohydrate. rate. The cheese moved. And making that juice better isn't going to make people want it more than they do. Sometimes it's not your fault. Sometimes the values of the consumers you serve or the community changes. And so I would ask you, what is that lens you look through? Because you help so many people in a consulting capacity. And so you're looking at trends and you're working with people who either didn't get it out the gate or got it out the gate, but the cheese moved, or they just need slight refinement.

15:13How do you analyze when you start working with a client? I think checking the books, checking the numbers, right? What's your top sellers? Based off of that alone, you can really tell what someone's doing in their business. Like for instance, this one company, they've been around, I think it was 70 years. You know, they were one of the first vegan restaurants in Atlanta. And they literally just closed down, I'd say maybe a month ago. And when the owners, it was partners. So one of the partners really wanted to revamp and do things differently into this new era of veganism, right? And plant-based food.

15:50But the other partners, unfortunately, were still stuck back in Fred Flintstone era. You know what I mean? So So, of course, there was that clash. And when he brought me in, I was like, guys, you are selling things that you're selling one a day, you know, and you still have it on the menu and the prep and the time to put in to get that done. You're throwing money away. Right. So, you know, there's things like that that I look for where the ROI is just not there. But the spending, the cost of it is just astronomical. Right. And they don't see that. it's like, oh, it's been on the menu for 20 years and, you know, people love it.

16:27Yeah, one person. So I look for the numbers because numbers don't lie. You know what I mean? You know what you're selling. You know what you're not selling. And then the other thing, too, is just what it costs to make. If your cost, your food cost is out the window for you to make this thing that is not bringing in any kind of money, it's something that needs to be dropped immediately. But you have owners and then you have owners that are chefs, right? So it's a completely different conversation when you're talking to an owner that's a chef versus an owner that might not necessarily know, knows about food, but doesn't cook, right?

17:04So when I go into these establishments, it's always an analysis first of your top sellers, your low sellers, what's in the middle, what do you think you're doing right versus wrong, and then just evaluating, taking time, just taking those like, you know, a fly on the wall, just seeing everything that's going on. And from there, you know, I can really just break down what it is that needs to happen and just go from there. Yeah. And it's because you triaged it in your own business, I'm assuming. Yes. When we look at online sales, I was tracking all of your stuff. I fancy myself well-researched. What I saw was I saw a bunch of hits and misses for about 10 years in online retail sales.

17:45Dude, that's a long time to eat shit. So as a restaurateur with a sample size of three concepts across multiple locations, I thought that I had like a pretty wide aperture, like a pretty wide worldview. I didn't. Like once I started working across hundreds of restaurants globally, year after year, then I was like, oh, my God. And like the restaurant industry is hard. And I would not say that it is easy, but it is simple. And so once you've worked with enough clients, you see it like You can see these patterns. And so I want to go back to your business because obviously you weren't, because you killed so many products over the course of a decade, you weren't married to the individual products.

18:29What it seemed like you were married to was online sales. Talk to me about that. Was it because of your wife's hair product line and seeing that flourish? What made you say that the products might be wrong, but the strategy is right and I just need to find the right one? I'm glad you asked that because with starting all these different projects, it was trying to figure out what will work, what won't work, right? So us going into business, we decided to do the t-shirts, all this stuff online first. Then the hair business came after, right? And then I literally stopped cooking. So that's why my timeline is very weird.

19:08It's kind of off, right? Once we decided to have kids, I literally became a stay-at-home dad. so I wasn't in the business anymore I was literally just cooking at home creating content and like that was my life besides the technical aspect of our hair business so I literally did that for like 12 years and off and on I'll get a project you know someone I know will say hey Ed you know can you fly to California or Texas Florida wherever I need help for two months three months whatever so my work was very background I wasn't doing a lot of stuff up front and the time that I wasn't working in the business, my e-commerce business made$10 million.

19:47So it was like, if we could do this with that, then I definitely need to figure out how can I do food online so I don't have to show up every single day. So that's why we went with the books, you know, the spices, the aprons, and then ultimately consulting, because that's something that never really stopped. I just took it when I had the opportunity to, based on the fact that I was being a dad. So, you know, our business, we still homeschool. My oldest is 16. For me, being a dad, homeschool dad, having my businesses online, it just made sense because we just created this ecosystem where we didn't have to kind of, I wouldn't necessarily leave the house, but we could still be home, go to the office, kind of execute on that level, but just everything was just online.

20:36So that's what created that whole system. There's a book called Good to Great by Jim Collins. And in the book, what he talks about is he talks about the most successful companies in the world backed by data, like these are companies that beat the S &P 500 for decades. And one of the interesting things about these companies is that they consistently had what he called a higher return on luck, which is interesting, right? Because we all get these opportunities in our life. And like, you just, you see people, right? They could just polish a turd into a diamond that they just, they, right. They have this ability to take like a really small thing and turn it into a really big thing.

21:16And Jim Collins to find that as a higher return on luck, there is a sea of chefs that have been on the show chopped and have done nothing with their career, right? At least not to the degree that you have, that they didn't take that exposure and that opportunity to brand and really do something amazing with it. You used it as the foundation to change your stars, to change the overall trajectory of your life. Talk to me about What's your intention going into the show and the steps that you took after the show to achieve a higher return on love? Gotcha. So I did CHOP 2010, right? Yes. Almost 20 years ago, old man.

22:00I know. So the goal was my daughter was about to be born because this happened like in June. She was born in September. So I was like, I'm going to do this. It'll be great when she's born. Like, hey, you know, I did this in, you know, love of you, et cetera, et cetera. But I think what really got me there was every couple of days or so, I would just practice like if I was on CHOP. And I was able to use that to just kind of really hone in on my skills. And then I got on the show. I did the show. It was pretty epic. I won. And after that, back then, social media wasn't really a thing. You know, you had Facebook, but I didn't know about marketing and that kind of thing or myself on social media.

22:44Right. So it was just people would just walk up to me on the subway, on the street. Hey, I saw you on shop. And, you know, that was the kind of thing. But I think leaving New York and moving to Atlanta, I was able to really capitalize on me being on shop because then I would get these emails or these calls. Hey, you know, we saw that you were on shop. We would love for you to come speak at this school or do a workshop or a webinar retreats, things like that. So once I started getting those kind of pitches from people, I started pitching myself to other people. That's how I used me being on chop and just my 20, well, 20, 30 years of cooking to really catapult what I do now.

23:26I also want to talk about the acquisition of skills. What I found in my own career and so many others is that we always retreat back to. We always double down on the things that we know, the things that are familiar to us. So like when a chef's restaurant is struggling, right, they immediately go to the menu, right? Well, if the food is better, right, if the food is more consistent. I was a restaurateur. I'm not a chef. I can't cook. I can't boil an egg. So like for me, right, for years, I leaned on ops, right? Well, you know, if we can, if we bring in a better quality of person and if we're doing a better job with this and a better job, but it was all, it was all mechanical.

24:06like my whole career, the trajectory of my businesses, everything changed when I began to go through the uncomfortable process of acquiring skills that I believe were like commonplace in every other industry but ours and use those within the confines of my restaurants. And that seems to be something you've done as well. You knew how to cook. And it's so interesting because we're like 26 minutes into this conversation, Ed, and not once have you talked about cooking or chefdom or knife skills or anything like that. But it does seem like you spend a lot of time focused on marketing and copywriting and e-commerce and lines of distribution.

24:51Talk to me about that because that certainly makes you a category of one. It's crazy because like you said, when COVID happened, people needed to figure out how are you going to now bring in money? You know, how are you going to do things differently? So lead generation for me became an obsession. My wife went to school for marketing. So thank God we kind of had a little up in that area, but marketing evolves every couple of years. So for me, I'm a forever student. So I'm always reading books on sales, on lead generation, on marketing. And it's the only way you can survive. Like it doesn't matter how good you are as a chef or a restaurant owner.

25:28I mean, if no one knows you're there, you're not making any money. And how do people know when you're there? It's like it's marketing. It's getting your name out there is being on amazing podcasts like this. It's being on places, being seen. And by that, the money comes in. So it's unfortunate that a lot of people go into business and they think we just have to have good food. Like, no, that's a very small fraction of it because I know tons of restaurants with horrible food, but they're always busy. So what's the difference? The difference is they know how to market themselves. They know how to get their names out there.

26:02And I think for anyone listening, you have to figure out marketing. You have to figure out lead generation because those are the two things that will keep you busy. Because even if you're really popular, every business has ebb and flow. So it's like one day you're going to be doing $100 ,000 in sales or whatever the case may be. And then the next day you're doing$5 ,000 or$1 ,000. So no one's making money forever. But what happens when you stop making money? If you haven't put things in place, systems in place to keep putting yourself out there, then you're going to end up in a situation where there's no money coming in.

26:39And that just happens to way too many people. I mean, it happened to me in the beginning because I had no idea when I first started my company that I needed to put myself out there. I'm like, I'm good. I know what I'm doing. People are going to find me. No, no one's going to find you. It doesn't happen. I want to talk about focus. I think that it's probably the greatest hurdle for all entrepreneurs. My daughter was at a play date a couple of weeks ago, and I had a little bit of time to play around on Claude. And I was like, let's double the sales of my company. What would need to be true in order to double the sales of my company?

27:12And it went through all of these verticals and all of these different things and all of these new segments that I could build out and all of this. And it took hours, Ed, and I went through the whole thing. But I kept like, it's called red teaming it where like, I just kept making it break down its own argument again and again and again. And two hours later, what we agreed on was that the easiest way for me to double the sales of my own company is to stop fucking around, to fix the holes, the obvious holes in the marketing funnel, right? Around new customer acquisition, conversion, retention, all of these things.

27:45And if I just wanted to double sales, I just needed to continually further professionalize this company, which is far less sexy than saying, Josh, you're going to interview Chef Egg. You should come up with your own spice blend. That's fun. That's interesting. That's not do more of the shit that's already working in a really boring way. And I think that that's I see it so often in the industry. I mean, I was a victim to it myself is that when one business wasn't working, what I would do is like, you know, when dinner service was slow. I didn't fix dinner service. I was like, we should have lunch.

28:20What's the worst that could happen? One location isn't profitable. Let's open another one. What's the worst that could happen? And as it turns out, the worst case scenario is nightmarish. And so focus, focus is the hurdle for all of us is that we're not working to solve our problems. We're just stacking one problem onto the next to distract from the next thing. And then in preparing for this interview, right? There's Knife and Spoon is one of your companies, Chef Life Consulting, Flavor Bomb. How do you delineate between like, this is a smart move. This is going to make me more money, not more work.

28:59I think for me, it's things that I can do with the least amount of effort. Anything I approach, I'm always thinking, what's the easiest way for me to do it? The less headache, the less stress. and that's with everything, the way I cook, the way I manage, the way I do my work, delegate, whatever it is. So with Flavor Bomb, it was a partnership between myself and Chef Angelo Sosa. So with that, there's just one pocket of it that I needed to worry about. So it was an easy yes. With the consulting, that happens when someone needs help. So everything has its own little pocket. So nothing is pulling me constantly every single day.

29:39So that's how I'm able to just kind of say, hey, I'm going to focus on this with my products. Once they're made, they're sent to fulfillment. I don't have to think about it. I just have to market them. The website's 24-7. So I'm sleeping, orders are coming in. Consulting, orders are coming in. They're being shipped out. So I just figure setting myself up with things that automate the process is the best case scenario for anyone. Because if you can automate, then it's one less thing to worry about. I want to talk about the partnership with Angelo. I think it's really interesting. thing. You're far enough along in the journey that like you didn't need the partnership.

30:14No. Right. And you work with your wife. Right. And that works for you, which is a miracle. I've worked with my wife on and off. It hasn't worked out particularly well. I, as it turns out, am not a pleasure to work with Ed.

30:28I'm just being real with you. She would tell you to very good husband. I wouldn't go so far as to say great, but certainly get an E for effort, like partner in business, someone to work for and alongside. No, thank you. I hear you. I hear you. But no, with Angelo, the story with that was Angelo was the chef that I worked with in New York 20 years ago. Right. And I knew that he was about to open up these projects. And I was like, you're missing like a seasoning, like you're this chef on TV. You know, you do all these different activations and whatnot. Like you should have something that you can sell that you can, you know, give to people when you do these meet and greets, et cetera.

31:10So we started talking about different projects. First, it was kind of like a sauce and then we tweaked it to a salsa matcha and execution was a big part of this. So I was like, why don't you just maybe do spices, seasonings, blends? I already do it. I already know the ins and outs of it. It could be something that could be executed very easily. And he was like, I'll only do it if you come in on it with me, you know, 50-50. And I was like, sure, because what it takes to do it, it's already kind of in the pipeline. You know, once I set it up, it's, I don't really have to think about it. So that's how that came about.

31:45So I would assume that someone with your brand reach, right, and your level of success across multiple verticals, the people probably call all the time. My clients come to me and, you know, they reach a certain level of success. and then it's like somebody calls with an amazing opportunity. Like, oh my God, we're building this thing and we're gonna give you the anchor tenant location and we're gonna give you a really good deal on it. It's gonna be a great deal for you. I gotta tell you, I'm 46 years old. No one has ever offered me a great deal that turned out to be a great deal. But that's not to say that you shouldn't take those opportunities, you know?

32:20And I think that the longer you're in it, I mean, again, what we're talking about here is a 30-year career, but like 20 in the current phase that you're in, that's a lot of reps. That's a lot of brand recognition. That's a lot of success, but it's also a lot of offers. And based on the fact that we talked about three things that you're doing, you could probably be doing 30 things, 300 things. So what is the lens through which you looked at all of these other projects, whether it was helming your own restaurant or your own retail line? How did you decide to say no to all of these things? I looked at time in terms of what realistically, what would it take for me to execute it right at the highest level?

33:04And from the restaurant offer to being a chef somewhere, it was just like, I love the life I've created with my family where, you know, we can travel, you know, whenever, you know, the kids are home, hence the consulting part of this, right? So if it takes me away from my day to day for more than a month or two at a time, then it's something that I almost automatically say no to. So for me, it's more project based. Right. And I think that's what allows me to kind of say yes and no very quickly to things. If it's a short term thing, then more than likely it's going to be a yes if the money is right, the theme, the whole process good.

33:41But anything that's long term, it's almost always a no. Let's unpack that a little bit because you said something that I figured out for myself 25 years too late. Not that it's ever too late. When I opened my first spot, Like the one that I owned, right? And then I went from the first to the second. I wanted what I wanted. I couldn't even tell you now. It was just the ego that I wanted to get into fine dining. I really wanted the building in downtown Los Angeles. And so that's what we went with. And it was too nice for it to be a shithole bar like the shithole bar I owned in Hollywood. So we had to elevate it.

34:14And then it was a big kitchen. So we went, like life was happening to me. It wasn't happening to life. And then when we got into fast casual, the one question I never asked until I was in my 40s, It's like the most important question you should ever ask. And you spoke to it directly. It's like, how does this impact my personal life? How does this help me get closer to how I want to spend my time and the amount of money that I think I deserve to make? But you don't hear a lot of that in the industry. And we're a comparable generation where like those just aren't questions that people ask. And I think, too, you have this generation where you've seen a lot of shots on TV and And you've seen that limelight and that life and like, oh, this is exciting.

34:58So, you know, I feel there's some people that get that offer and they jumped it very quickly without really realizing what they've gotten themselves into. And like you said, we've been in the business long enough to know that, you know, there's certain things you just can't get away from. And once you've accepted it, like that's it, you have to now do it. Right. So I think when we started having kids, I just then made a decision that, OK, hey, I love to travel. So I can't do that if the head chef or I'm running a project. So that ultimately was my guiding star in just saying yes and no to projects.

35:36Because for me, life is fun when I can do a project for two months, three months. I even did one for six months, but that was like a stretch. But anything shorter than that, in and out, just being able to do retreats, do workshops, right? Those things are very limited. And sometimes I can bring my family along. So they get to travel. They get to see new places, new restaurants, new hotels. And it's fun for everybody. And then, you know, they're not missing me. I'm not missing them. And, you know, that's what I wanted my life to be. And of course, not everyone can say or do that, right? But if you are young enough where you can still create that path of what you want your life to look like, you really need to think about it and not just, oh, well, I'm a chef and this is what I need to do.

36:20Like, there are a million ways to be a chef. You can be a chef online. You can be a chef in person. I mean, the sky's the limit, but it really takes stepping back and just kind of stepping outside of the box and just kind of looking in that whole picture just to kind of see, fast forward 10 years, am I going to be happy doing this? 15 years, you know, what does that look like for me? And I think that is what really helps me to decide. What should we steal from you? If we assume that like there are no successful people, They're just people that do successful actions consistently. Like what are the actions that you look back, that you always go back to, that you believe have attributed so greatly to your success?

37:02Not competing with anyone, really important. And I think more than anything is just being consistent, picking something and just keep doing it regardless. So for me, it's just being consistent at the thing that I love to do, which is cook. Like I love to cook. I love to teach. So I'll find a multiple of ways to do that, right? Even though it might not look like the traditional way of doing it, as long as I'm doing it, then things will happen. And that's how it's been. So I think that's the most important thing, just being consistent and just following that path of what it is that you want. And then just always thinking of now, but also thinking of the future.

37:40Like, what does that look like for you later on down the line? Like, I'm always planning 10 years, 20 years. Like, I see myself in this place. It's like, you know, I see myself over here when I'm 60, 70. I'm consulting on the phone. You know, I'm just doing videos of showing people how to do whatever. So it's like just having that mentality and just constantly just thinking about what would make my life better. And then just working towards that. I think that's just how I live my life, you know, every day. That's Ed Harris. To learn more about Ed and his work, visit KnifeInSpoon.com. Hey, it's Josh.

38:17I wanted to take a hot minute to thank you for listening to today's episode and to ask that if you are getting value from FullConf, please like and subscribe and be sure to leave a review. Those reviews matter and they help other independent owners and operators find the show. Also, if you want to take the stuff that we're talking about in these episodes from idea to execution, head to joshcopal.com. There you will find a ton of free templates and tools and all the details on upcoming learning events so you can keep building momentum. I know you're busy, so I don't take your time for granted. Thank you again for listening, and I'll see you on the next episode.