Elon Musk: You decide!

0:04Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. I'm Simon Jack, I'm the BBC's business editor. And I'm Zing Zing and I'm a journalist, author and podcaster. Each episode we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money. We take them from zero to their first million, then from a million on to a billion. But we're going to be doing things a little bit differently in this very special feedback episode on the richest person on the planet, Elon Musk. If you haven't listened to that episode yet, and it's a doozy, go back now and give it a listen. We put it out just before Christmas.

0:35We discussed Elon's extraordinary rise from a troubled childhood and apartheid era South Africa to becoming the first person to amass half a trillion dollars. We looked at how he used a windfall from the tech giant PayPal to revolutionise electric cars at Tesla and launch rockets at SpaceX. But becoming the richest person in the world came with plenty of boardroom drama and controversy. So we asked you to get in touch and tell us what you thought after listening to our episode. Do you think he's good, bad or just another billionaire? And we were so happy to see how many of you enjoyed the episode and got in touch.

1:10And we are excited to share your thoughts on Elon Musk. So let us start with JC, who emailed us. Hi there, friends. Excellent programme about Elon Musk. Really interesting to know about his origin and life. Hugs from Havana, Cuba. I think that is probably the most glamorous place anybody has emailed us from. Yeah. We've also heard from listeners from where Elon grew up, South Africa. summer fans. Andre from Cape Town says, hi there. I enjoyed your Elon podcast muchly. As for the man, Elon Musk, I believe that no single person on this planet has done more to get mankind away from incredibly damaging fossil fuel vehicles and into clean energy transport.

1:46No small thing. Well, others think Elon is not so brilliant, like Brilliante from South Africa, who sent us a WhatsApp to say, hey, good, bad billionaire team, brackets, incoming hot take. I have had it when it comes to billionaires going into politics and ruining our lives, especially when it comes to Elon Musk. Later, Brilliante says, I don't even think a billionaire or millionaire should meddle in politics. How are they even qualified? And quite a few of you pointed to what he's done environmentally as evidence that Elon is a good billionaire. We got a text which had no name. Elon Musk is a good billionaire, a positive force because his companies aim to solve large-scale problems.

2:26He accelerated the adoption of electric cars, contributing to lower emissions worldwide. Starlink has brought reliable internet to remote regions, improving access to information and opportunity. Through SpaceX, he's driven down the cost of space travel and advanced global space capabilities. Known for his direct communication style and resilient background, he has channeled his ambition into technologies that significantly benefit mankind. Well, direct communication style is definitely one way of putting it. But I've also got someone from my past who has emailed Andy from the UK. Thank you for making the Elon Musk episode.

2:59I really enjoyed it. Zing, I first became aware of Elon when you and I were both students at Emanuel College, my university, in Musk's make or break year 2008. Well, Andy, if this is the same Andy that I'm thinking about, I think you were an engineer, weren't you? So clearly, you know, Elon, an engineer at heart. I first heard about his crazy rocket project and actually watched the webcast of the successful fourth launch attempt of the original Falcon 1 rocket after the first three failures. I was hooked from then on following the twists and turns of his various enterprises, which seemed like they might change the world.

3:35But Andy goes on to say the incident of the trapped Thai divers was when I started to understand what a jerk Musk can be. And I don't align with his recent politics. but overall I'd still have to call him a good billionaire because I think he's accelerated some much needed technological change and ultimately tech shapes our world. I guess that's the engineering student in me. You're right. I was right. I really enjoyed listening to your fantastic podcast Keep It Up and Andy I hope you're an engineer still. Blasts from the past for seeing there. Some of you though disagree with that conclusion and question Elon Musk's vision for the future.

4:10Dr. Eleanor, British by birth but long-time Dutch resident, begins by saying, I'm not a fan of billionaires. I fall into the camp of thinking that regulation has gone wrong when someone can amass that much wealth. But Dr. Eleanor thought our episode was not critical enough of Elon Musk. She went on to say, since you did ask for audience opinion, we did, I'm no doubt biased as someone with a connection to the academic side of space. I have a PhD in astronomy. And personal connections to people working in clean space, the field involved in trying to avoid the Earth's orbit becoming unusable. I didn't know this was happening.

4:42That means it's too much space junk, too much stuff actually in orbit. Oh, OK, right. I thought for a second Earth's orbit was kind of not working right and we were all going to fall out of space. I think it's full of bits and bobs. Anyway, she goes on to say, with that context, he's definitely very bad, in my opinion. He's becoming emblematic of some of the worst excesses of the move fast and break things culture, something said by Mark Zuckerberg once upon a time famously. It's also maddening, Dr. Helena says, as someone with a passing understanding of the challenges that would be represented by keeping people alive on Mars to see his determination to see a colony on Mars as inspiring rather than delusional.

5:16To put it another way, he frames his ambitions as on expanding and saving humanity, but he neglects the fact that he actually has the resources to do things to address actual serious challenges that humanity is facing now, like famine and climate change. I suspect he cares less about saving the world than the fact of being the one who does the saving. Ouch. Yeah, Dr. Eleanor, thank you for that. What does Elon Musk have a saviour complex discuss? Chris also shared a similar view to Dr. Eleanor. First, thanks for a very amusing and fact-filled episode, My Rating of Musk, Bad. I'll use one of his obsessions to go to Mars.

5:49This is in no way to save humanity. At the best estimate, Mars could support less than 1 % of the current human population. It's just another variant of West Coast survivalism. Screw everyone else, I'm going to survive. Chris actually uses a different word there, but as we're a family show, we'll leave that to your imagination. Some of you recognise Elon's achievements as a businessman, but would put him in the bad billionaire category for other reasons. Philippa sent us a WhatsApp and included info that she's aged 60, Portuguese by birth and German by marriage. She says, thanks for today's entertainment and thought-provoking addition.

6:25It was the perfect companion to peeling almonds in the kitchen. You peel your almonds? Anyway, to me, Musk is a bad billionaire. Though a few of his actions may have good results, morally speaking, it is intentions that count in the way he treats people. As a philosophy graduate, I believe in the ancient Greek idea of kalos kagathos, meaning good and beautiful are inseparable. To sum it up, I think the purpose of power is goodness, and I see no goodness in Musk's overpowering power. That is maybe the most highbrow reference that we've ever had on Good Bad Billionaire, so thank you, Philippa. Well, James emailed, he's a good businessman, but a terrible human being, in my opinion.

7:03What's the point in having so much money if your legacy is so poor? I think with great wealth comes great responsibility. If you can't find a way to do good with your money and leave the world a better place, you're basically a bad person. Love the show and your analysis. Thank you, James. Anne says, I've just been listening to the latest episode and I listen to all of them. I'm distressed that we continue to allow a handful of people to disseminate so much influence over the global population. I'm almost ashamed to admit my first thoughts about Elon was that he was an impressive force in the world now I think he's one of the most dangerous people in the world we give away so much power to a handful of individuals I genuinely despair about the direction we're going in really, really dismayed it reminds me of the totalitarian leaders of ancient dynasties building rivers of mercury underground power corrupts, absolute power corrupts, absolutely someone else got there before me, makes me shiver interesting aside, so if you're wondering where this underground river of mercury reference comes from.

7:59This is actually a reference to the very first emperor of China, Qin Shi Huang, who was around in the third century BC. He's the guy behind the terracotta army. So his tomb was guarded by thousands of those warriors. You might recognize out of respect, no one's actually excavated that actual tomb. But according to one description written by an ancient historian a century after the emperor's death, the tomb actually contains man-made streams of mercury. And, you know, yes, indeed, analysis of the soil nearby has reviewed very high levels of mercury. So something that was meant to kind of pay homage to the guy ended up poisoning the soil around him.

8:35What incredible restraint not to dig up the tomb to try and find that out. But for some listeners, Elon Musk's achievement should be weighed in favour against any controversy. Adrian from Lusaka, Zambia says, I think Elon Musk is a good billionaire. Sure, he's got his fair share of drama, but the guy's revolutionised industries. He's more than just another rich dude. Also, shout out to the Masayoshi Son episode. It's my favourite. Since I found your podcast last year, I honestly listen to it almost every day and learn something new each time. Who knows? Maybe you'll cover me in the future. Keep up the awesome work.

9:07Well, let us know how you get on. Adrian from Lusaka, Zambia. If you become a billionaire, maybe we will. If you become Good Bad Billionaires, first ever actual billionaire listener, actually do get in touch because, you know, we might very well cover you. Well, in another email, Gary from Nevada in the United States says, I view Elon Musk as mostly a good billionaire. Certainly with flaws like most humans I meet, Elon has tipped the scale strongly in favour of good. I drive a Tesla that I purchased two and a half years ago. One area that I think you missed was FSD, full self-driving. And Gary also goes on to argue that this feature on the Tesla might actually reduce the number of auto incidents annually.

9:45He goes on to say, I've had five to six upgrades on my Tesla since my purchase. Most were FSD related. all were done while the car was in my garage, transmitted by satellite. My car just keeps getting better and better. Gary also says, obviously, if it's planned to create driverless taxis as a dollar a mile with no driver tip expected happens in the next three years, far fewer cars will be needed. And this is where gas cars will really become something of the past. The air pollution savings alone should get Elon a 10 in almost all areas. I don't have the stats on pollution illnesses and deaths, but it likely exceeds that of car wrecks.

10:20And don't be surprised when Elon combines SpaceX with his solar company to put orbiting solar panels in space. They may direct power directly to large AI centres and solve the potential power crisis expected in the coming years. To me, there's Elon at the top and every other billionaire in the minor leagues looking up. So Gary really coming in with a 10-year plan for Elon. Well, I wonder, Gary, do you work for him? No, others of you are also massive Elon fans. Kai emailed us, Elon Musk is one of the most inspirational business leaders in the world. He's saving humanity! With electric cars and space travel, he's one of my heroes.

10:57He has liked some of my comments on Facebook. He's a great billionaire. As a business owner myself, I love listening to Good, Bad, Billionaire. You're giving me a first class business education. Well, Kai, you're officially in competition with Adrian from Zambia to become our first billionaire on Good, Bad, Billionaire. And we got a WhatsApp from someone in the UK. They didn't include their name, but they did include a goat emoji. Couldn't have waited more for this episode. I think Elon is the goat. Undoubtedly. Goat, I think, meaning greatest of all time. Very good, Simon. You knew that. You're so passionate.

11:27I love it when you do that. Hey, you know, I still remember having to explain, what was it, YOLO? YOLO. You only live once. I still remember. Yeah. We should do a Good Bad Billionaire pub quiz where you test me on economics and I test you on pop culture phrases. Okay. We'll save that for the Christmas episode. Some of you are trying to understand what motivates Elon. Janelle from Nigeria says, I absolutely love this podcast and I hope you stay on long enough to feature my story. Winking emoji. Well, Janelle, I think you've got two competitors now trying to say that they're going to be the first listener to appear on Good Bad Billionaire.

12:02Elon, Janelle says, is definitely a bad billionaire. I've always thought he was someone who struggled with self-esteem and his background kind of confirms it. I think he's trying so hard to be a bad guy to get attention. I'd have said just another billionaire, but sexual harassment isn't something to take lightly amongst other controversies. So he is definitely a bad guy. Now, at this point, we should remind listeners, he denies all sexual harassment on misconduct claims. So you can listen to our episode for more details on that. And Stephen from the UK began his email, love the show. It's fascinating and horrific in equal measure.

12:35But Stephen suggests a possible theory as to why Elon Musk tweeted about taking Tesla private for$420 a share, which many people speculated was a reference to marijuana. Stephen says, one of his favourite books is Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but Musk appears not to have realised that it is a satire. By the way, 42 was the meaning of life, the universe and everything from those very books. Another reason for$420? By the way, the Tesla Roadster was based on a Lotus Elise built in Norfolk, UK. It's now the fastest car ever made. Go Norfolk. Thank you very much, Stephen. He also included a link to a website which is tracking Elon Musk's Tesla Roadster that was launched into space.

13:16I remember that. The website says its location is currently 188 ,363 ,850 miles from Earth, moving away from Earth at a speed of 6 ,300 miles an hour. So in that sense, it's the fastest car ever. Imagine being an alien and coming across a Tesla Roadster in the depths of space. You'd be so confused. Now, for some of you, you can't just decide if Elon is a good or bad billionaire. Robert from Montreal, Canada says, great series, original concept. Enjoy listening to the podcasts immensely. Thank you, Robert. Regrettably, you are not going to do a podcast regarding myself because I am not even close to being a billionaire.

13:54You and I both, Robert. As for Elon Musk, certainly I can't imagine anyone claiming he falls into the category of just another billionaire. He's certainly a complex individual and not one dimensional. Most historical figures in history, I am not referring to people like Stalin or Hitler, are quite complex with many good and bad attributes as to what they've done. In this case, I would categorise Elon Musk as a good slash bad billionaire. OK, some great fence sitting there. But I appreciate those comments, Robert. Daniel says, hi, guys. I hope you're both doing super well. we are, thank you Daniel I wanted to send this email to tell you guys how much I love the podcast I've listened to every single episode and thoroughly enjoy them all.

14:32I'm from South Africa so I thought it would be the perfect episode to send my review I personally think Elon can be described as an extremely intelligent billionaire but whether or not he's good or bad is yet to be determined what he's done for promotion of environmental sustainability is awesome but some of his political views and controversial takes can be seen as negative I also feel as a South African he could have done a bit more in terms of bolstering our economy I do think he has the potential to be a good billionaire if he focuses on his original goal, and that is bettering the environment.

15:01But that is just my take. Anyway, I love you guys. Keep up the great work. And I'm looking forward to the next episode. Thank you very much, Daniel. I love that there was a strong South African contingent coming out here with views on Elon Musk. And finally, you'll remember that at the end of the Elon episode, we included some feedback. A listener's dog suggested we check up which billionaires are dog lovers. Well, another listener Tony has got in touch to say Oprah Winfrey is a billionaire dog lover. You have to do a bit more work on this to try and figure out if there's any trend that we can spot of dog ownership amongst our billionaires.

15:33I think dogs versus cats. How many billionaires own cats versus dogs? That's a good one. Well listen, thank you to everyone who got in touch. Amazing response. Really thoughtful replies as well to all of those things. I'm afraid we couldn't include them all. We've given you a smattering of them there but please keep sending in your feedback. Email goodbadbillionaire at bbc.com. Or drop us a text or WhatsApp to 001 917 686 1176 and tell us what you think. And don't forget to include your name as we may read out your message on a future episode. And after that lot, we may even feature somebody if they make a billion in the next few years, when we will hopefully still be going.

16:11Good Bad Billionaire is a BBC World Service podcast produced by Hannah Hufford. The editor is Paul Smith and it's a BBC Studios production. For the BBC World Service, the senior commissioning The producer is Sarah Green and the commissioning editor is John Monnell.