In short
Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal’s rise from Saudi royal upbringing to global billionaire investor, framed as “self-made” vs privilege, plus controversies, prestige-building, and limits of his power (including the 2017 Ritz-Carlton detention and later Saudi state tightening control).
Guest backgrounds
Simon Jack is the BBC business editor. Zing Singh is a journalist, author, and podcaster.
Key claims
Al-Waleed says he didn’t inherit his fortune; the episode argues his wealth came from royal access and capital sources. His defining “contrarian” bet was buying Citicorp during pessimism, later earning about a 20-fold return. He cultivated status via Western investments and media/politics, and sued Forbes for undervaluing him. His influence was curtailed when he was detained in the Ritz-Carlton crackdown.
Notable examples
Citicorp (1990-91), Apple stake (5% for $115m), Twitter investment ($300m), Forbes libel suit (2013, settled 2015), alleged dwarf-tossing claims, 9/11 donation rejected by Giuliani, Ritz-Carlton detention (2017-18), Kingdom Holding valuation concerns (Ernst & Young noted gaps), later stakes in XAI and Four Seasons.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPrince Al-Waleed's Background
0:51 to 1:41
Overview of Prince Al-Waleed's wealth and investments.
“Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.”
Childhood and Early Influences
1:41 to 2:15
Exploration of Al-Waleed's childhood and family background.
“But as every gambler knows, not all bets pay off.”
Saudi Arabia's Societal Context
2:15 to 3:00
Discussion on the socio-political landscape of Saudi Arabia during Al-Waleed's upbringing.
“Back then, Saudi Arabia was still a relatively young country, founded just over two decades earlier by the prince's grandfather, King Abdul Aziz.”
Education and Early Ventures
3:00 to 4:57
Al-Waleed's education in the U.S. and its impact on his future ventures.
“in international sports and entertainment, known as sports washing, to whitewash its human rights record and improve its global image.”
The Oil Boom and Business Beginnings
4:57 to 7:37
How the oil boom influenced Al-Waleed's early business opportunities.
“Instead, and I think this is an important point in the story, he went to Menlo College in California, private university in Silicon Valley, where else, where he studied business administration.”
Early Investments and Controversies
7:37 to 9:10
Review of Al-Waleed's initial investments and debates about his self-made status.
“strike major deals in the Saudi construction drive.”
The Citicorp Gamble
9:10 to 11:40
Highlighting Al-Waleed's major investment in Citicorp and its significance.
“You could say he may have been born as it, but it's safe to say by the early 80s, Prince Al-Walid bin Talal was comfortably, in his own right, a millionaire.”
Strategic Investments in Troubled Companies
11:40 to 14:00
Al-Waleed's strategy of investing in struggling companies and its outcomes.
“Al-Waleed will eventually secure a near 20-fold return on his original investment.”
Prince Al-Waleed's Early Investments
14:00 to 15:01
Explore how Prince Al-Waleed capitalized on distressed companies, notably Apple.
“We're going to rocket up into those skies.”
Building a Diverse Investment Portfolio
15:01 to 16:19
Learn about Al-Waleed's expansion into various sectors and maintaining a global presence.
“And I'm sure it's worth very much more now.”
Show all 24 chapters
Philanthropy and Social Modernization
16:19 to 17:20
Discover Al-Waleed's philanthropic efforts and support for social changes in Saudi Arabia.
“It wasn't just the investments that distinguished himself from other Saudi royals.”
Controversial Investments in Technology
17:20 to 18:15
Examine the controversy surrounding Al-Waleed's investment in Twitter and its political implications.
“The platform had become a crucial tool for activists during the Arab Spring uprisings, which began in December 2010 and spread across much of the Arab world the following year.”
Investment Successes and Failures
18:15 to 19:17
Assess Al-Waleed's investment track record and notable failures compared to Warren Buffett.
“Now, even if he likes to be called the Warren Buffett of Arabia, Prince Al-Waleed Bintalao may not quite be the investment Swangali he'd like us to believe.”
Public Image and Cultural Missteps
19:17 to 20:59
Analyze Al-Waleed's public relations challenges and notable missteps, particularly post-9/11.
“He had other investments in the likes of Time Warner, News Corp, remember Rupert Murdoch's company.”
The Libel Case Against Forbes
20:59 to 22:12
Investigate the legal battle Al-Waleed engaged in with Forbes regarding his wealth valuation.
“Which brings us back to our opening scene, the lawsuit he launched against Forbes in 2013, which is pretty illuminating.”
Valuation of Kingdom Holdings
22:12 to 23:50
Understand the complexities behind the valuation of Kingdom Holding and its implications.
“Why would he care so much about his placement on a magazine rich list.”
Detention and Power Dynamics in Saudi Arabia
23:50 to 25:06
Explore Al-Waleed's detention and the implications of power dynamics in Saudi Arabia.
“And actually this brings us to the episode that sort of brutally exposes the limits of his influence and power.”
Recent Investments and Strategic Moves
25:06 to 26:50
Review Al-Waleed's recent investments and strategic positioning alongside Elon Musk.
“After three months of the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton and agreeing to cough up an undisclosed sum, the prince was released from his five-star confinement in January 2018.”
Scoring Prince Al-Waleed's Impact
26:50 to 28:00
Evaluate Prince Al-Waleed's wealth, controversies, and overall legacy in the business world.
“By the end of 2024, XAI's valuation had risen from about$25 billion to$45 billion.”
Scoring Prince Alwaleed: Wealth Analysis
28:00 to 29:55
The hosts analyze and score Prince Alwaleed's wealth based on his lifestyle and background.
“Now we've discovered how Prince Al-Walid Bintalau made his billions, it is time to score him.”
Controversies Surrounding Alwaleed
29:55 to 32:35
Discussion on the various controversies linked to Prince Alwaleed, from lawsuits to public actions.
“That's on a gold plated toilet from an early age, maybe.”
Power Dynamics of Prince Alwaleed
32:35 to 34:31
An exploration of the power held by Prince Alwaleed and the implications of his past experiences.
“Power continues to have enormous business access, enormous visibility.”
Assessing Alwaleed's Legacy
34:31 to 35:51
The hosts evaluate Prince Alwaleed's legacy in the context of his influence and contributions.
“Well, I mean, he basically pioneered this model of the Gulf billionaire as a kind of savvy global investor, right?”
Listener Feedback and Discussion
35:51 to 37:50
Hosts read listener emails and discuss perspectives on wealth, philanthropy, and impact.
“So the final question we ask you is, is Prince Al-Waleed Bintalel good, bad or just another billionaire?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:28This podcast features Simon Jack and Zing. in the region of$20 billion, making him the 26th most wealthy person on the planet.
0:36Simon Jack:But the prince is furious. As far as he's concerned, the magazine has undervalued him by around$10 billion. I mean, how dare they? There's only one thing for it. The prince quietly instructs his lawyers to sue Forbes magazine for libel. Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Each episode, we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money. We take them from zero to their first million and then from a million onto a billion. My name is Zing Singh and I'm a journalist, author and podcaster. And I'm Simon Jack. I'm the BBC's business editor. This week's billionaire is Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.
1:12Or just Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal for short.
1:15Simon Jack:Or Prince Al-Waleed for even shorter. Yes, widely recognised as Saudi Arabia's richest royal. Al-Waleed claims very little of his fortune came from inheritance or indeed the country's vast oil wealth. You can decide that for yourself. Instead, he's earned a reputation as one of the canniest investors on the planet, styling himself as the Warren Buffett of Arabia. That's because Prince Al-Walid has built a vast fortune by placing high-stakes bets on huge global companies. But as every gambler knows, not all bets pay off. Prince Al-Walid has an incredibly opulent lifestyle to match. We're talking lavish palaces, private zoos, mega yachts.
1:51Simon Jack:He even has a golden throne installed on his private Boeing 747. He's a member of the House of Saud, one of the most powerful royal families in the world. But for our money, he's also a pretty unusual one. So let's sit on the golden throne and fasten our seatbelts as we fly back to where it all started for Prince Al-Walid bin Talal.
2:14Al-Walid was born in 1955 in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia's second largest city after the capital Riyadh.
2:21Simon Jack:Back then, Saudi Arabia was still a relatively young country, founded just over two decades earlier by the prince's grandfather, King Abdul Aziz. Its economy was only beginning to be transformed by the discovery and exploitation of oil. But it was also ultra-conservative, rooted in religion and politically dominated by the royal family. And we can't talk about Saudi Arabia without talking about its human rights record, because even though the kingdom has become much more socially open in recent years. Last year, Saudi Arabia still executed the highest number of people in any given year. Authorities continue to severely restrict freedom of expression and women face widespread discrimination.
2:59Simon Jack:And the Saudi government has been accused of using investments in international sports and entertainment, known as sports washing, to whitewash its human rights record and improve its global image. However, when defending Saudi Arabia's right to host the 2034 World Cup, Saudi Arabia's sports minister, said the claims of sports washing are, quote, very shallow, adding a lot of the people that accuse us of that haven't been to Saudi or seen what we're doing here. But let's get back to Prince al-Walid's beginnings. His father, Prince Talal, wasn't liberal in the Western sense. He was one of Saudi's most prominent voices for reform, in fact.
3:33Branded the Red Prince, he advocated for constitutional government, greater social openness, more opportunities for women, ideas that seemed distinctly radical there at the time and led him to being politically sidelined.
3:46Simon Jack:Prince Al-Walid's mother, Mona al-Soul, was the daughter of Lebanon's first prime minister, but she and Prince Talal divorced when Al-Walid was young. Now, this meant that the prince spent much of his childhood moving between Saudi and Lebanon, between different homes, cultures. It might even be said different expectations. The story goes that Al-Walid was a restless child with an annoying habit of running away for days at a time. And after repeatedly getting into trouble at school in Lebanon, his father took the young prince back to Saudi where he enrolled him in a military academy. Now, the runaway prince would later say the academy was where he learnt self-discipline and independence.
4:21Simon Jack:He's also rumoured to have played Monopoly there every day during his free time. A minor detail that also feels quite on brand for a future investor. Yeah, can Monopoly teach you tricks for building a property empire? I mean, it certainly teaches you how to fall out with your family members. Oh, every single time I've played Monopoly, it's ended up in a massive row. And as to whether it can teach you to be a billionaire, my answer is no. Well, after finishing up at the academy in Saudi, Al-Walid went back to live in Lebanon, where it's said he put a lot of effort into drag car racing and generally having a good time, as if it's a prince.
4:53Simon Jack:He'd planned to go to university in Beirut, but the outbreak of the Lebanese civil war in 1975 abruptly put pay to all of that. Instead, and I think this is an important point in the story, he went to Menlo College in California, private university in Silicon Valley, where else, where he studied business administration. And it gave him something more than a degree because it taught him how to speak the language, if you like, of American business and Western finance. Although he did complain that his social life in California was virtually non-existent, I don't believe him. I find that so hard to believe that a prince in America would have a bad time.
5:28Simon Jack:Well, the oil boom had been completely revolutionising Saudi Arabia. In 1973, Arab oil producers had turned the world's fuel supply into a weapon because triggered by Western support for Israel and the Yom Kippur War, they slashed oil production, they blocked exports to countries like the US and the UK and pretty much almost overnight, global oil prices quadrupled and Saudi Arabia was by far the main beneficiary of this crisis. And in fact, people are referencing that period in the conflicts that we are seeing today. Fueled by surging prices, the kingdom's annual oil revenues rocketed from roughly$4 billion a year to over$100 billion within a decade.
6:07In response, the government then used that money to roll out a massive infrastructure programme. Dusty desert towns were being replaced by sprawling modern metropolises, new airports, highways, communication networks, power grids. You get it, they were being built at an astonishing pace.
6:23Simon Jack:So this was boom times of Riyadh and after finishing college in California, Prince Al-Walid went back to the newly flushed city. He was now married to his first wife, Princess Dalao bin Saud al-Saud. Like Al-Walid, the princess was a grandchild of the king, although through a different royal line. Yeah, by the time their first son, Prince Khalid, came along in 1978, Saudi Arabia had become a land of enormous opportunity. Yet despite its newfound wealth, it remained a deeply conservative place, both politically and socially. Women weren't allowed to drive or work in most professions. Cinemas were banned.
6:55Simon Jack:Alcohol was completely off the table. Islamic law shaped public life and the legal system. And while this huge oil boom had transformed the state's finances, it also really strengthened the royal family's power. Yeah, but foreign construction firms were circling the area. They were eager to invest, get in and tap into this newly found wealth. But they needed someone to help them navigate what felt like a mysterious desert country dominated by the royal house of Saud. And with his international upbringing, his royal credentials, Prince Aulid, was perfectly positioned to slide into that gap. He basically became a very useful fixer for Western investors.
7:31Yeah, a fixer with very elite connections. And he helped investors from the United States, from Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. strike major deals in the Saudi construction drive. and it didn't take long before his own wealth started to grow.
7:44Simon Jack:I mean, you'd be forgiven for thinking that being a Saudi prince would have given him the kind of financial head start in business that most of the rank and file can only dream about. Which gives us an opportunity to dig into one of the first, I would say, controversial aspects of the story about whether he is in fact what he would style a self-made billionaire. Because his own explanation of where he found the extra capital to start making his own bets, his own investments, is one he's repeated a few times. According to the prince, his father first of all gave him$30 ,000, which he spent in a single year.
8:15Simon Jack:Then his father apparently gave him a$300 ,000 loan, which vanished in less than three years. So instead of giving him more money, Awalid's dad then gave him the deed to a house he'd been building for his son in Riyadh. And he promptly took out a$600 ,000 mortgage against that property. He said he raised additional funds by selling off a$200 ,000 necklace belonging to his wife. and along with capital from the property deals he brokered, he started relentlessly investing in Saudi real estate, in stocks, in shares. If we ignore the quibbling detail, he also received a$15 ,000 monthly stipend as a grandson of the king, quite the allowance.
8:51Simon Jack:It's a story that almost kind of, you know, nearly supports this idea that he's a self-made man. Not really, not for me. I mean, you know, Saudi prince, really self-made man. I would not put him in that category. Yeah. It's impossible to pinpoint precisely when Al-Walid reached his first million dollar milestone. You could say he may have been born as it, but it's safe to say by the early 80s, Prince Al-Walid bin Talal was comfortably, in his own right, a millionaire.
9:29Simon Jack:Now, let's continue our chartered voyage through Prince Al-Walid's fortunes as we cross over from a million to his first billion. By the end of the 1980s, the prince was rich enough to start thinking pretty big, actually. It wasn't just Saudi deals anymore. He's edging into international deals, taking stakes in Canary Wharf, which is a big development in London, the Four Seasons Hotel Group, News Corporation even. Then comes the deal that firmly puts him on the map of major global investors. It revolves around one huge, risky, brilliantly timed gamble on financial services multinational Citicorp.
10:03Simon Jack:That is Citibank's parent company before it became Citigroup. Now Citicorp had spent the 70s and 80s lending heavily to a booming US property market. And when that boom turned to bust in the recession of the 1990s, the bank faced losing billions of dollars on loans that might never be repaid. Shades of, or pre-shades of 2008 right there. Citicorp desperately needed capital, but investors were understandably running scared. So the share price was plummeting. So enter Prince Al-Walid, who places a huge bet on the future of Citicorp, just as everyone else was heading for the exit sign. Sounds kind of crazy to me.
10:40Well, this is where big fortunes are made sometimes. You know, people who run the other direction from the crowd. It's called contrarian. And this is probably why he refers to himself as the Warren Buffett of Arabia, because Buffett always says, be brave when everyone else is at their most fearful. And it worked for Warren Buffett and it worked for Prince Al-Walid.
11:00Simon Jack:That's right. At the end of 1990, Aualeed quietly bought around 4.9 % of Citicorp's common stock on the open market. Then in early 1991, he agreed to invest another 590 million in a deal that would take his holding as high as 14.9%, making him Citicorp's largest single shareholder. And sometimes when someone puts in real money like that, you stop the crowd from running to the exit, they turn back over their shoulder and go, hang on a minute, maybe we're missing something here. And that's precisely what happened because the audacity of Al-Waleed's wager brought other investors flooding back. And before long, Citicorp's share price was climbing steadily again, making Al-Waleed huge amounts of money in the process.
11:41Simon Jack:Al-Waleed will eventually secure a near 20-fold return on his original investment. But it didn't only just make him vast profits. He was now seen as one of the world's foremost, as you say, contrarian investors. Yes, this deal kind of really did raise his profile. I mean, I remember there was quite a lot of pejorative things said about Arab money, Saudi money back in the 70s and 80s. They thought it was stupid capital. They would just buy into everything and you could sell them stuff, you know, whatever. And it was practically racist kind of view on money from the Gulf. But this kind of marked him out as having being shrewd.
12:18And that stood him in very good stead, I think, allowed him access to more deals in the future because he was saying, oh, this guy has actually got his head screwed on.
12:26Simon Jack:So business-wise, what exactly did Hourly do right when it came to this big bet on Citicorp? Well, first he bought a distressed asset. Distressed means that everyone hates it. But it's still important. Citicorp was a massively important company. Wounded, not worthless. He bought at a point where the market had become at its moment of maximum pessimism. And this is the crucial Buffett quality as well. He had the patience to wait for a recovery, which not everyone has. Sometimes you have to sit tight and wait and trust that you're right about something. So the lesson here is don't just buy any old broken rubbish.
13:01Simon Jack:You need to pick the prestigious institution that everyone is kind of running a little bit scared of. Yeah, as Buffett once said, I would rather buy a fantastic business at a fair price than a fair business at a fantastic price, which I think is a really interesting one. He does have a way with words, that Warren Buffett. Well, anyway, it's a pattern that Al-Walid has done his best to repeat ever since. Although, you know, as we say, not every gamble pays off and he's had a checkered rate of success. Now, somewhere around the late 1980s, we can be certain Al-Waleed crossed the billion dollar threshold.
13:32Simon Jack:But it was his Citicorp bet in the early 90s that turned him into a globally famous billionaire.
13:50Simon Jack:Now, I want to ring the kind of in-flight alarm and say, ladies and gentlemen, we might experience a little turbulence because we're going to take Prince Al-Walid Bintalao beyond a billion and on into the super wealthy stratosphere. We're going to rocket up into those skies. So hot on the heels of that Citicorp trade, Prince Al-Walid started betting on brands like Citicorp that looked bruised, damaged to the rest of the market, which he could see potential in. Yes. So you can imagine him as this kind of cash rich Superman with extraordinary prophetic divining powers. You know, he just seemed to swoop to the aid of all these wounded companies just as they were on the buffers.
14:24And believe it or not, in the late 90s, one of those companies was Apple. Hard to imagine now, but I remember this time very well. You could buy Apple share for 10 bucks a pop. No one liked them. Steve Jobs had walked away. And so he made a bet into that. He announced he bought a 5 % stake in the company for$115 million. So he bought a 20th of Apple for$115 million. I don't even want to tell you what that's worth today.
14:48Simon Jack:I mean, that's going to be a lot of money. And a few months after Al Waleed's investment, Jobs was very much back at Apple. And within three years, the prince's initial investment of 115 million had risen to a value of over 800 million. And I'm sure it's worth very much more now. Yeah, so that's six times his money in just three years. Pretty darn good. But through his publicly listed investment company, Kingdom Holding, Prince Awali continued to expand his portfolio. He started adding shares in banking, insurance, hospitality, real estate, tech, airlines, health care, pretty much every sector.
15:21He was just adding to his growing empire.
15:22Simon Jack:A real shopping list here. The companies include everything from Disney, 21st Century Fox, Time Warner, General Motors, Twitter, eBay, Lyft, Viacom, AOL. You know, they all join a very long list of companies he's taken out, Shazen. Yeah, some better than others. And through his entertainment company, Rotana, he built one of the Middle East largest media empires. And then there is the string of ultra luxury hotels and resorts, including the Savoy in London, New York Plaza and the George V in Paris. Along the way, he recognised what profile he had and he was pretty adept at making the most of photo ops with Western business leaders, politicians and celebrities.
16:00Simon Jack:Now, what is striking about many of the Western companies that Al-Waleed has invested in is that they often offer a kind of glamour or prestige because, you know, not only can they give him fat returns, but they can also help elevate his visibility as a serious global investor rather than just another wealthy Saudi prince with money to burn. It's interesting that because there's a fine line between being a serious global investor and acquiring what people might call trophy assets, things that add to your social status, your visibility. It wasn't just the investments that distinguished himself from other Saudi royals.
16:34He publicly supported some aspects of social modernisation in Saudi Arabia. For instance, in 2011, one of his media companies financed the first feature film directed by a Saudi woman.
16:44Simon Jack:Now, whether he's motivated by personal conviction, reputation, a combination of both, he's also invested quite heavily in philanthropy. So he has an umbrella organisation, Elwaleed Philanthropies, which focuses on community development, disaster relief, the environment. And it says that over its 45 year long existence, it's spent over five billion, reaching one and a half billion beneficiaries in 190 countries. So a philanthropic reach not to be sniffed at. Yeah, so he doesn't just want return on his cash. He wants a seat at the table, a reputation, a public identity. But his public image has also brought complications.
17:19Some of Al-Walid's investments have placed him at the centre of controversy, as was the case with Twitter. The platform had become a crucial tool for activists during the Arab Spring uprisings, which began in December 2010 and spread across much of the Arab world the following year.
17:34Simon Jack:Yeah, and Prince Al-Walid stepped in in December 2011, investing 300 million to become its second biggest investor, owning more stock than even its own CEO, Jack Dorsey. And it became part of a wider dispute, if you like, about technology and political power in the Middle East. Some feared Twitter could spark an Arab Spring-style movement in Saudi Arabia, but the debate later shifted in a very different direction. Human rights organisations alleging Saudi authorities were using the platform as a tool for surveillance, for control, claims the Saudi government, I should say, rejected.
18:17Simon Jack:Now, even if he likes to be called the Warren Buffett of Arabia, Prince Al-Waleed Bintalao may not quite be the investment Swangali he'd like us to believe. Unlike Buffett, who's backed winner after winner over many years, you can just listen to our podcast episode for proof of that, Al-Waleed's track record hasn't exactly been consistent. In fact, Forbes' own assessment suggests he's better on what they call some real dogs in recent decades. Ouch. Specifically Eastman Kodak, remember them? and TWA that was the airline which went bust tumbling share prices long declined. Auerli told Vanity Fair in 2013 I don't make mistakes I make blunders when you make a mistake you lose 10 50 100 million dollars when you make a mistake of 200 or 500 million dollars that's a blunder.
Read the full transcript
19:03What a weird distinction to make between 100 million is a mistake 500 million is a blunder. I'm just glad to know that I'll never have the opportunity to make either a mistake or a blunder in my entire life.
19:15Simon Jack:And we can count ourselves lucky for that. Yeah. He had other investments in the likes of Time Warner, News Corp, remember Rupert Murdoch's company. They were kind of middling investments. He never quite matched the sort of chutzpah, the scale, the brilliance, the bravery of that Citicorp trade which made his name. Yeah. Sometimes I guess the problem with buying these damaged prestige brands is that you end up buying damaged prestige brands and you're left with nothing at all. Yeah, what's clear is that once he became eye-wateringly rich, the story seems to be less about making money and more about what he wanted that money to mean.
19:48And the evidence seems to suggest he wanted to mean that he mattered in America.
19:52Simon Jack:Yes, there he'd worked hard to cultivate this image as the modernising Saudi businessman. He invested in major American companies. He met presidents. He gave regular high-profile interviews. you know generally casting himself in the role of someone who could speak the language of Saudi royalty and of Wall Street. Yeah but sometimes he made some I think I would call them cultural missteps. A revealing moment for example came in the wake of 9-11. Al-Walid flew to New York to offer a 10 million dollar donation to aid efforts and there's footage of him at Ground Zero presenting an envelope to the then New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and Giuliani is seen graciously accepting and the to shake hands.
20:31But the prince later issued a press release asking the United States to re-examine its policies in the Middle East and take a more balanced stance on the Palestinian cause.
20:40Simon Jack:And Mayor Giuliani's swift response was to very publicly reject the prince's donation. In other words, he sent all that money back. Yeah, so$10 million did not get the US to reconsider its policy in the Gulf, particularly with regards to the relationship with Israel. You would think there would be a very highly paid PR consultant who'd be able to have told Prince Al-Walid that. Which brings us back to our opening scene, the lawsuit he launched against Forbes in 2013, which is pretty illuminating. Yes, the Forbes billionaires list is probably the closest thing that the world has to a global league table of wealth.
21:12Simon Jack:We use it quite regularly on the show. And in 2013, the publication estimated his net worth was just short of 20 billion, making the 26 richest person in the world. And a clearly incensed Al-Walid said the magazine had undervalued him by 9.6 billion and, as we talked about before, instructed his lawyers to sue Forbes for libel. How dare you say I'm so poor? Yeah, exactly. And actually, he did it in London, because at the time, members of the global elite frequently came to London to sue for libel. English law was seen as more favourable to claimants than that in America. Yes, it's what we sometimes call libel tourism.
21:46Simon Jack:And according to some of Al Walid's former executives, the prince was actually obsessing over the Forbes list for years. He had even invited one of their reporters to Riyadh showing off his palaces, private jets, a jewellery collection said to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, it's like, look how rich I am. Well, two years after launching the libel case, Al-Waleed and Forbes quietly settled in June 2015. And the terms of that settlement have never been disclosed. So that begs the question, why would a Saudi prince be so, you know, affronted? Why would he care so much about his placement on a magazine rich list.
22:19Simon Jack:Well, there is one theory and that is because it was so much of his wealth had been tied up in the Kingdom Holding Company and questions have been raised about Kingdom Holdings valuation. Questions like, for instance, how much of that valuation was real and how much of it depended on, shall we say, optimistic interpretations. In fact, the auditors, Ernst and Young, who audited Kingdom Holdings in 2009 and 2010, they noted a big gap between the market value and the holding value of its stock. Now, the market value is what the shares could actually be bought or sold for on a stock exchange, you know, if you tried to sell them that day.
22:54The holding value is the value of the company recorded for those investments in its financial statements. So what you got them down is on record and what they're currently actually worth.
23:03Simon Jack:Yes, and a big gap means big problems. In early 2010, Prince Aureli transferred£180 million of his personally owned shares in Citigroup into Kingdom Holding, increasing the assets of the company by about 600 million. And because Al-Walid owned 95 % of Kingdom Holding, he was giving an asset he owned privately to a company that was mostly his. Forbes questioned whether the move was designed to prop up Kingdom Holding's accounts by making the balance sheet appear stronger than it otherwise would have been. So what did Ernst & Young have to say in 2011? Actually, nothing. Because as of March that year, it was gone, replaced by another auditing company at the annual meeting.
23:41Simon Jack:I wonder if for El-Walid this valuation is less about the actual maths of it all and more about the validation that he is the Warren Buffett of Arabia. And it clearly cares a lot about prestige, stature, profile. And actually this brings us to the episode that sort of brutally exposes the limits of his influence and power. In November 2017, El-Walid was among hundreds of Saudi princes, ministers, senior officials and businessmen invited as guests of the government to the five-star Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh. To paint a picture, this is a luxury hotel. I mean, luxury beyond luxury. Acres of manicured gardens, 500 lavishly decorated room suites, six restaurants, indoor pool, spa, its own six-lane bowling alley.
24:25All sounds rather lovely, except Al Waleed and the other guests weren't allowed to leave.
24:31Simon Jack:Yes, that's right. It's like Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. The hotel became a kind of luxury detention centre for all these esteemed guests. So El-Walid and the others were held there while their financial affairs were investigated by the authorities. Yeah, officially, this is all part of an anti-corruption crackdown led by the Saudi ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Unofficially, critics saw it as a purge. I mean, I remember this. I remember thinking this is a shakedown. It's like you get everyone says, literally empty your pockets. A five star sting.
25:01It was a way for bin Salman to recover money. Tell them who's boss. Remind the kingdom's elite who was really in charge here.
25:08Simon Jack:Although the government didn't publicly specify the allegations made against Al-Walid, like many of those detained, the prince was reportedly asked to negotiate a confidential settlement with bin Salman's government or face prosecution. Like I say, shakedown. After three months of the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton and agreeing to cough up an undisclosed sum, the prince was released from his five-star confinement in January 2018. But it was a really stark reminder in Saudi Arabia that even billionaires like Prince Al-Walid are answerable to the throne. You know what this reminds me of a bit? Oligarchs in Russia and Vladimir Putin.
25:41It's like you can be as rich as you like, but you need to know who's boss.
25:44Simon Jack:Yeah, you need to stay in line and enjoy the gilded cage because you never know what hand is going to reach in there and snatch you out. Yeah, well, it seems to have worked because in 2022, he sold hundreds of millions of shares in Kingdom Holding to Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, which significantly tightened the state's influence over his flagship vehicle. So basically putting one arm of the kingdom on the steering wheel of his own investments. The prince also started to be cut out of Mohammed bin Salman's business dealings, where previously he would have had a guaranteed place at the table.
26:15So he decides once again he needs to diversify a bit, which brings us to one of his most significant ventures in recent years.
26:22Simon Jack:When Elon Musk bought Twitter in 2022, you remember the image of him bringing in the kitchen sink into the office there? The prince kind of rolled over his massive stake in the company and made himself one of the largest investors of X. But in the aftermath of Musk's takeover, it was reported the platform was losing nearly 12 % of its active daily users. Yet our lead continued to back Musk to the hilt, with Kingdom Holding later acquiring over a$1 billion stake in XAI. That's the artificial intelligence company Musk founded in July 2023. By the end of 2024, XAI's valuation had risen from about$25 billion to$45 billion.
27:00Simon Jack:and Kingdom Holding now describes the XAI investment as one of its most valuable tech holdings in the portfolio. And I'm just thinking now that XAI is rolled into SpaceX, he must be a big shelleder in SpaceX as well. And one of Elwaleed's most significant long-term assets remains the Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. Alongside Bill Gates, he's a principal owner in that luxury hotel group and that is reflective, I think, of his long-standing interest in these global brands. In 2025, the market value of Kingdom Holding's stakes in the company was reported to exceed$15 billion. And his relationship with Gates goes beyond that.
27:34He also invested in Breakthrough Energy Ventures, a climate-focused fund founded by Gates aimed at accelerating the transition to clean energy. Interesting for someone from Saudi Arabia. It's another example. He's been positioning himself alongside influential figures and emerging industries, ready to adapt as global priorities evolve and wanting to be at the top table.
28:00Simon Jack:Now we've discovered how Prince Al-Walid Bintalau made his billions, it is time to score him. Now, this is a fun bit of the programme where we basically look at the categories, wealth, controversy, power and legacy, and we score them from zero to ten. It's all a bit of fun. And so we always start with wealth. And obviously, he didn't think that even Forbes got it right in the first place. Well, I think some listeners may be listening to this and going, a royal on the podcast. Well, that doesn't count. Yeah, exactly. A Saudi royal who considers himself self-made, you know, eye roll, I think. He is obviously enormously wealthy by any ordinary standard.
28:37But he would probably, I think, be quite disappointed by his middle ranking among the world's billionaires.
28:43Simon Jack:Yeah, he's somewhat squarely in the middle, I would say. I mean, he does know how to spend it. He is a prince. He's got three big palaces in and around Riyadh. And his main residence has 420 rooms filled with marble gold-plated fixtures as well as portraits of himself. That does not surprise me. Don't forget about the zoos, the private zoos. That's a real classic. Apparently he's built a mini Grand Canyon. You're kidding me. He also owns Donald Trump's former super yacht, which has a value apparently of$91 million and was used in the Bond film Never Say Never Again. Put it this way, the yacht has its own hospital with operating theatre.
29:19Simon Jack:I don't know if I want to undergo a surgical operation in a mega yacht. Okay, so wealth. He's clearly obscenely rich. I know he's middle of the pack for our kind of billionaires, but I'm going to give him... He's so regularly in these kind of groups of people you find out have got fingers in the pie of some of the most successful companies. I'm going to give him a seven. I'm going to give him... Ooh. I actually think maybe I'll score him a bit lower because, you know, I feel like I have to take points off for the fact that he was born a Saudi prince. Yeah. So he's already got that silver spoon.
29:51Because we do also consider how far people have come. And you've got to think that he had a pretty good head start in life, you know, if not a silver spoon, a sort of oil in a silver spoon.
30:02Simon Jack:A gold plated. That's on a gold plated toilet from an early age, maybe. OK, so you're getting him what? One lower than you. Six. OK, seven for me, six from you. Controversy, controversy. Well, I mean, there's the Forbes lawsuit, but that seems to me just sort of vanity in a way. I don't think that actually counts as controversy. But the political posturing in America post 9-11, that was a bit of a howler. I'm sure it was well-meaning, but he managed to parlay that into a political snafu, didn't he? And he sort of misunderstood the mood of America. So there's that. But there's some pretty strange ones in here as well.
30:42Simon Jack:Yeah, I mean, this is probably the oddest one of the lot. Now, in 2010, the prince was alleged to be keeping a group of people with dwarfism among his royal entourage. Sources claimed the prince organised so-called dwarf tossing competitions with cash rewards offered to guests who could throw them furthest onto piles of pillows. That is not good. No. Well, his official spokespeople rejected these claims, saying Al-Walid had brought them into his court as a way of giving them a steady income, shelter and security. Well, I guess that puts a humanitarian spin on things, but still, it does not make me feel very comfortable.
31:16In April 2015, he announced on Twitter that he would give 100 Bentley cars to the 100 Saudi fighter pilots who had taken part in the Saudi-led air campaign in Yemen. Just what your average pilot needs, a Bentley.
31:30Simon Jack:Understandably, the announcement was heavily criticised because it seemed to celebrate a bombing campaign that caused significant civilian casualties. I know the plan appears to have been abandoned. There's no evidence that we could find the 100 Bentleys were ever delivered. It's a controversy. I think the most controversial thing is his self regard. Actually, I think it's more about, you know, it's the status seeking pictures of himself wanting to be at top table, elbowing his way into the ranks of the elite is sort of, you know, in a way sort of personally more controversial. And also intervening in the wake of 9-11 in a way that, you know, probably nobody even asked for.
32:12Simon Jack:You know, you can just imagine being in New York and thinking to yourself, what does this prince have to do with New York? Yeah, no, fair enough. I'm going to give him a solid eight for Controversy. I think eight out of ten for me as well. I mean, I think you're right. The self-regard and ego really does lead him to cause some really quite big blunders. Yeah. OK, so eight for both of us on controversy. Power continues to have enormous business access, enormous visibility. He's got huge international connections. He's been incredibly successful in turning his wealth into prestige, prestige into influence.
32:46Simon Jack:But let's not forget the Ritz-Carlton episode where he was basically locked in a five-star prison for three months and made to cough up money. Yeah, shakedown when the Crown Prince bin Salman showed him who's really boss in Saudi Arabia. Apart from Joe Biden, though, he's met every US president since Clinton, many other world leaders besides. But he got into a bit of a Twitter spat with Donald Trump in the run up to the 2016 general election. Al-Waleed tweeted that Trump was a disgrace to America after the then future president called for a ban on Muslims traveling to the United States. And Trump responded by accusing our lead of seeking to, and I quote, control US politicians with daddy's money.
33:24Oh, Donald Trump has a view on whether he's a self-made man as well, it seems. I think he's, we often use this test. Could he ring up the head of state and get through? And I think probably yes.
33:38Simon Jack:I think so too. But then the whole Ritz-Carlton episode just gives me pause for thought. I think that if you can be locked up in a five-star hotel with no escape in sight and forced to cough up money, it suggests to me you aren't very powerful. I'll tell you what. I think maybe he couldn't get through on the first dial to every head of state in the world. But I think he could get through to most chairman of the board of most major corporations in the world. They would want to say he's on the phone. What does he want? Is he going to take over my company? Is he selling his stake? I want to know what's going on because he's a big investor.
34:13Simon Jack:So I think I'd give him maybe a 5 out of 10. I'm scoring him quite low because I think being held hostage by your own family, essentially, suggests to me that there are limits to your power. Yeah, I'm going to give him a slightly higher score than that because in the business world, I think he's still quite a mover and shaker. So I'm going to give him in business terms a 6 on power, which leads us with legacy. Well, I mean, he basically pioneered this model of the Gulf billionaire as a kind of savvy global investor, right? He's not the only one, but he is the most high profile one. I mean, in the past, people like Sheikh Yomani, other big oil tycoons in the 1970s tended to be known only for the riches they derive from Saudi Arabia's main product, which is oil.
34:55He was the one person who'd branched out and become a figure in business and in boardrooms around the world.
35:01Simon Jack:He's also been a big voice for social modernisation in Saudi Arabia. He's argued in the past that Saudi women should be allowed to drive. He's framed it as a kind of human rights issue and economic necessity even. The ban was of course lifted later on in 2018. Yeah. So on legacy, I wonder whether your average Saudi citizen thinks, I wish I could be like Prince Al-Wuulid bin Talal, or whether they think there's the rich guy who got lots of money from the family business and admittedly turned it into even greater riches. But, you know, is he a trailblazer? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I think in terms of legacy for me, he kind of scores quite lowly on this.
35:41Simon Jack:Like the cultural legacy, his impact probably isn't half as great as he'd like it to be. I think that's exactly right. So I am going to give him a three for legacy. I think that's right. Three out of 10 on legacy for me. So the final question we ask you is, is Prince Al-Waleed Bintalel good, bad or just another billionaire? Email goodbadbillionaire at bbc.com or drop us a text or WhatsApp to 001 917 686 1176 and tell us what you think. And don't forget to include your name as we may read out your message on a future episode. We've had this email in from Catherine who says, Your brilliant podcast keeps me entertained on my evening runs and my gruelling work commutes every morning.
36:23Simon Jack:Being a huge tennis fan, your recent Roger Federer episode was a delight. Like you, Simon, I've been lucky enough to watch Federer live at Wimbledon. And my goodness, what an occasion. I'm a bit jealous now. He may not have the most titles, but he certainly will go down the history books as one of the greatest. And no one could ever match his elegance. He is for sure a good billionaire. And he's very good at tennis. Yeah, 100 % agree. Thank you, Catherine. And this is from Mark Todd in Surrey. He says, my overwhelming reaction to yet another unveiling in brackets celebration, question mark, of someone's extraordinary accumulation of wealth being, why aren't these people motivated to apply their considerable talent and intellectual curiosity into something else, like cleaning up our oceans?
37:04Simon Jack:Is it simply there isn't enough material and or glamorous gratification in it? Do you have to wait until you're as wealthy and experienced as Bill Gates to recognise the need to make this sort of difference? Ideally, less excursions to outer space and more altruism here on Earth, says Mark. Mark, it's interesting. Do you have to wait until you're as wealthy and experienced as Bill Gates to recognise the need to make this sort of difference. Some would say maybe you don't feel you can make a difference until you have that kind of vast wealth. I mean, for all those people who valiantly try to make a difference, I think it's incontrovertible that someone with Bill Gates' wealth can do a tonne more with what they've got than someone soldiering along throughout their life on a moderate income.
37:45Simon Jack:Yeah, although I guess we could all do our little bit to clean up the ocean. Yeah. Mark, thank you for that. That's Mark Todd from Surrey.
37:56Simon Jack:So who do we have on the next episode of Good Bad Billionaire? We've got someone who was one of the great corporate raiders. Do you remember the film Wall Street with Michael Douglas? Yes, Greed is Good. Greed is Good. Going in, borrowing tons of money, buying up companies, mixing them up, asset stripping, selling them off. His name is Nelson Peltz, and he took a tilt at some of the biggest companies in the United States. People like Heinz, Procter & Gamble, Wendy's, you name it. And if you're thinking to yourself, hang on a second, the name Peltz sounds very familiar. Yes, he is the father of Nicola Peltz, who is now married to Brooklyn Beckham, as in David Beckham's son.
38:32Tune in to hear the story of Nelson Peltz and find out whether he is good, bad or just another billionaire.
38:39Simon Jack:Good Bad Billionaire is a BBC Studios production for the BBC World Service. It's produced by Connor Garrett with research by Hannah Ramazani. The editor is Paul Smith. For the BBC World Service, the senior podcast producer is Sarah Green. and the commissioning editor is John Manel.
From the publisher
Prince Alwaleed bin Talal is a billionaire Saudi prince who insists he’s self-made. He champions women's rights, yet is a member of one of the world’s most traditional ruling families. He built his fortune betting on western giants like Citicorp and Apple, but is a prominent member of the House of Saud. Journalist Zing Tseng and BBC business editor Simon Jack trace Prince Alwaleed bin Talal's journey to becoming one of the world's shrewdest investors. Along the way, they explore the deals that built his fortune, the questions that have followed it, and the extraordinary moment he found himself imprisoned by his own government. Good Bad Billionaire is the podcast that explores the lives of the super-rich and famous, tracking their wealth, philanthropy, business ethics, and success. There are leaders who made their money in Silicon Valley, on Wall Street and in high street fashion. From iconic celebrities and CEOs to titans of technology, the podcast unravels tales of fortune, power, economics, ambition and moral responsibility. Simon and Zing put their subjects to the test with a playful, totally unscientific scorecard — then hand the verdict over to you: are they good, bad, or simply billionaires? Here's how to contact the team: email goodbadbillionaire@bbc.com or send a text or WhatsApp to +1 (917) 686-1176. Find out more about the show and read our privacy notice at bbcworldservice.com/goodbadbillionaire.
